Kitz Forum
Broadband Related => Broadband Technology => Topic started by: Bowdon on January 19, 2017, 06:13:13 PM
-
I was just reading this article;
BT’s Huawei Cabinets Give Better VDSL2 “Fibre Broadband” Speed than ECI (http://www.ispreview.co.uk/index.php/2017/01/bts-huawei-cabinets-deliver-vdsl-fibre-broadband-speeds-eci.html)
Anybody familiar with Openreach’s (BT) roll-out of VDSL2 based ‘up to’ 80Mbps Fibre-to-the-Cabinet (FTTC) tech knows that the operator tends to deploy two different types of Street Cabinet hardware, one from Huawei and another from ECI. But a new study suggests that Huawei’s kit is faster.
The use of two different types of cabinet / hardware is to be expected and simply reflects natural diversity in supply (i.e. don’t put all your eggs in one basket), but at the same time we’ve long noticed that ECI hardware on Openreach’s network has tended to run into trouble, while Huawei’s kit seems to suffer fewer hiccups.
For example, ECI kit didn’t have the best time when Openreach was testing Vectoring to remove cross-talk interference from VDSL2 lines (here) and the recent attempt to roll-out of Physical Retransmission ReTX (G.INP) also had plenty of hassle from the ECI side of things.
Similarly we understand that the on-going trial of a 3dB Noise Margin (SNR) may need a bit longer before it’s happy to be deployed with ECI kit, but the official deployment isn’t due to begin until March 2017 and so there’s still time to sort that out. All of the above features can aid performance and the fact that ECI tends to struggle certainly won’t help.
It's obvious that ECI cabinets are falling further and further behind the more we walk forward with technology. Do you guys ever see BT changing ECI cabinets? Either to Hauwei or another company (maybe Nokia)? ECI just doesnt seem to be able to keep up.
-
No, because in a few years' time VDSL2 will be obsoleted by G.fast, and perhaps a few years after that G.fast will be obsoleted by full fibre.
It's a bit like complaining about the older and less good TSTC ADSL2+ equipment at some exchanges. I can't imagine that being replaced by a more modern and better type of ADSL2+ kit.
-
I can't see that ever happening. It would cost a fortune, and be a logistical nightmare. What on earth would they do with the ECI DSLAM's they removed? Who's gonna pay for all the new Huawei DSLAM's.
I also find the title of that article extremely misleading. It may give better latency, better error correction, more stability. But where does the claim of "better speed" come from. I've never seen a single direct comparison of the 2 DSLAM's. If the ECI performs 10% better than a Huawei then that would more than wipe out any gains G.INP gives the Huawei. ECI cabinets will be getting G.INP eventually anyway. The vectoring argument doesn't wash either, as OpenReach don't deploy it on a large scale.
Hopefully on Tuesday I'll have a direct comparison with my own line. I'm hoping it will be connected to our new Huawei DSLAM, which I will be able to compare with my stats from a few weeks ago with an ECI DSLAM.
I'd confidently say OpenReach won't be deploying any more ECI cabinets. Even existing ECI's which are at capacity are being added to with Huawei's now. There's not the slightest possibility though that OpenReach will swap existing ECI's .
-
Nope. Next question please?
-
extremely unlikely sadly.
Alot hinges on if they can get a good g.inp rollout. Setting ECI cabinets to 3db target SNRM is not hard in itself but I expect will be reliant on a working g.inp configuration to give them the confidence to do so.
-
Thinkbroadband article: http://www.thinkbroadband.com/news/7616-huawei-vdsl2-cabinets-give-better-speeds-than-eci.html
-
BT will change the ECI cabinets when it makes commercial to so do.
-
BT will change the ECI cabinets when it makes commercial to so do.
It will never make commercial sense to do so. Everyone pays the same wether on a Huawei or ECI cabinet. Maybe if they made more profit out of the Huawei cabinets, but they don't. I don't even think it would be a good marketing tactic. Probably 99% of EU's don't know or care about the difference between the 2.
Even the most knowledgeable users wouldn't be able to tell the difference anyway. If I sat you in a room with a PC connected to the internet, without looking at a bunch of stats could you tell what cabinet it was connected to? There's no real noticeable difference in the service.
-
It will never make commercial sense to do so. Everyone pays the same wether on a Huawei or ECI cabinet. Maybe if they made more profit out of the Huawei cabinets, but they don't. I don't even think it would be a good marketing tactic. Probably 99% of EU's don't know or care about the difference between the 2.
Even the most knowledgeable users wouldn't be able to tell the difference anyway. If I sat you in a room with a PC connected to the internet, without looking at a bunch of stats could you tell what cabinet it was connected to? There's no real noticeable difference in the service.
I agree - except obviously if an ECI failed/got damaged or the ECI estate as whole become technically deficient. Then it would make commercial sense. But not likely.
-
So if you have an ECI and want to get an Huawei cab its best to just run it over? ;D
-
So if you have an ECI and want to get an Huawei cab its best to just run it over? ;D
Interesting... *hears car rev* lol.
Hopefully the G.fast node will take away the problems of the individual cabinet.
-
Hopefully on Tuesday I'll have a direct comparison with my own line. I'm hoping it will be connected to our new Huawei DSLAM, which I will be able to compare with my stats from a few weeks ago with an ECI DSLAM.
How did you manage to do this?
There's a newly installed Huawei just a few feet away from "my" ECI.
I'm wondering what's the best way to get my lined moved? Migration to a different ISP? Cease and signup?
Odds of someone running it over are low:)
-
cease and reprovide. current cab needs to be full to ensure your port is recycled. then need to wait for new cab. failing that order an adsl service inbetween to ensure your line is removed from the cabinet. If you don't do the above OR remotely disconnect you, then simply reconnect you on the same port.
or just wait till the new cabinet goes live and order a 2nd line. confirm it's on huawei then cancel the original line. this wasn't an option for me due to funds and contract restraints. I also know my 2nd pair doesn't perform as well, but not a huge difference.
-
I often think BT price some of their products out of range on purpose to control demand.
If we could double our speeds with 2 FTTC lines I think enough people would pay for it to force BT to expand the cabinets.
I was thinking yesterday how many FTTC connections can either cabinet serve compared to the population using the cabinet?
-
Why can't you double your speed by getting another FTTC line? Obviously it will cost twice as much in total as one line.
-
Cabinet capacity is shown here
http://www.kitz.co.uk/adsl/fttc-cabinets.htm
And you can find how many premises are passed by your cabinet via the link below.
https://www.telecom-tariffs.co.uk/codelook.htm
Ours shows 609, we have an ECI which supports 256 lines, we've also just had a second cabinet installed (Huawei) which supports at least another 288, possibly 384.
-
Why can't you double your speed by getting another FTTC line? Obviously it will cost twice as much in total as one line.
I wasn't sure if this was possible on FTTC unless the ISP had something setup at its end?
-
Thanks for the links @Ronski
I noticed on ISPreview they have this story over there: The UK Impact of Full to Capacity FTTC “Fibre Broadband” Cabinets (http://www.ispreview.co.uk/index.php/2017/01/quantifying-uk-impact-full-capacity-fibre-broadband-cabinets.html)
An excerpt of the article.
A new piece of research estimates that around 3% of premises in the United Kingdom could be affected by a full to capacity FTTC (VDSL2) “fibre broadband” street cabinet on Openreach’s (BT) network, which might prevent you from ordering a faster service.
Last September 2016 we ran a special article on the subject of “full” street cabinets and their impact upon consumers, which explained why such cabinets fill up and the problems that it can cause. Back then we understood that around 2,000 of the 77,000 live street cabinets were full and awaiting upgrade.
Tackling capacity problems is a natural reality for all major network operators and many such issues are fairly quick to resolve, particularly if all that is needed is to simply fit an additional line card into a spare slot inside the cabinet. However where civil engineering work is required to install more equipment (e.g. adding an additional street cabinet) then Openreach told ISPreview.co.uk that the “average” wait was usually around 6-9 months.
Ok I found out all the cabinets in my area except added last year is ECI.
According to codelook there are 391 properties and the cabinet can serve 256.
-
I wasn't sure if this was possible on FTTC unless the ISP had something setup at its end?
It would depend on exactly what you want to achieve, if you aren't concerned about the speed of a single threaded download, but want more bandwidth for multiple users or simultaneous tasks, then a load balancing solution could have different ISPs for each line.
I expect that the vast majority of people would not be interested in paying twice as much for double the bandwidth. There are still loads of people who are still on ADSL, despite the availability of FTTC.
-
This G.992.3 (ADSL2) user has considered the above subject line and suggests that it might be answered by having a saved eBay search for "ECI Telecom Hi-FOCuS Mini-Shelf M41" . . . :D
-
I wasn't sure if this was possible on FTTC unless the ISP had something setup at its end?
That's only if you need line bonding, so it appears as 1 connection. You can simply buy 2 FTTC services and run 2 modems with a dual wan router. That would be exactly twice the price. Line bonding will cost considerably more than 2 x an FTTC line as it requires the ISP to have things setup at their end.
391 lines served by a 256 cabinet is not bad.
We had 877 lines served by a 256 line ECI till recently. They just added a 288 Huawei (expandable to 384). This doesn't count another 40 or so new properties still not showing on codelook.
The problem of capacity is worse with ECI cabinets as it requires a whole new cabinet. Huawei have been developing their hardware and have released larger line cards. Both the Huawei cabinets used by OpenReach can now be expanded a little for a fraction of the price of a whole new cabinet. If they had to add another small Huawei to your existing cabinet it would almost be a fibre port for every property. So that's probably unlikely as they also want to add/sell G.Fast.
-
ECI already had 64 port line cards from the start, so you could say Huawei are catching up in that regard.
-
I was just reading a thread on Thinkbroadband forum: Faster FTTPoD now offered by Openreach (http://forums.thinkbroadband.com/fibre/f/4525577-faster-fttpod-now-offered-by-openreach.html)
It seems ECI cabinets are going to be missing out on products again.
A guy called Andy over there, not sure if he's a member here, wrote;
Same goes with GEA-FTTP. The up to 330/30 services are £92 for the installation and the 500/165 and 1000/220 are £500 for the installation (but it's reduced to half price for this year to £250).
I wonder if Openreach are deploying 10G-PON for those ordering the fast speed variants?
Edit: Doing a bit more digging - it states that the 500/165 and 1000/220 services are "are not supported on ECI ONT’s" and that FVA is not available with those speed variants (FVA is Huawei only as well).
So it looks like we're missing out again >:(
-
You mean andy__h? :no:
-
It seems ECI cabinets are going to be missing out on products again.
That's nothing to do with ECI cabinets, but rather the ONTs (optical network terminals).
ECI and Huawei are the suppliers of OpenReach FTTP ONT's, in the same way they supplied the VDSL2 modems for FTTC.
-
yes but do the ECI cabinet areas also have the matching vendor for the ONT? it would seem logical.
-
Yes they do. However FTTP(oD) doesn't have to use the same ONT/L2S the nearest FTTC cabinet connects to, and of course if there are Huawei cabinets connected to the same headend there's a Huawei ONT/L2S present. Even if not FTTP(oD) can go to a different headend from where the cabinets terminate. Were I to order FTTPoD here it would be served from Leeds Basinghall, not Hunslet as the cabinet is.
-
That is good to know.
I think I'm getting ECI-phobia. The fear of being left behind on an ECI cabinet ;D
-
Just looked at my cab details. They have an incorrect post code. Crowfly distance is 280 m and road 600 m between the two. Therefore how reliable is their data on properties passed?
-
Codelook guesses the cabinet location from the postcodes it serves. It is pretty accurate with properties passed though. There may not be a list of where each cabinet is, but number of properties in a postcode is widely available. I've counted properties served by my cabinet using royal mail postcode/address search and it was pretty exact.