Kitz Forum
Computer Software => Windows 10 => Topic started by: Ronski on August 14, 2016, 10:29:38 PM
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Something occurred to me today, and that is that W10 will not download updates on a metered connection, instead giving you a download button to choose when to download, don't think you can choose what to download though.
You can't set a wired connection as metered, but there is a hack.
Setting a connection as metered may affect other things.
http://www.howtogeek.com/226722/how-when-and-why-to-set-a-connection-as-metered-on-windows-10/
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I noticed when I did the update it had me do all the other updates too before it would setup the anniversary update. So if the small ones can be stopped then it probably wont attempt the big update.
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You can't set a wired connection as metered, but there is a hack.
Bit of a performance messing in the registry for those people using a PC from home on an ISP with caps.
http://www.howtogeek.com/262477/how-to-set-an-ethernet-connection-as-metered-in-windows-8-and-10/
Bad foresight from Microsoft :(
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Group Policy to manage updates worked on pro until the AU update, now is silently blocked.
The educational version is fully unlocked like enterprise, get one of those and it runs like windows legacy, no forced updates, no os reinstalls and full policy editor control, as a bonus you also get applocker and unlocked access to network tuning (nagle algorithm etc).
Set-NetTCPSetting - this can be used to view TCP parameters
Get-NetTCPSetting - this can be used to set TCP parameters
The Get command is locked on consumer windows. :(
Been honest my win10 testing rig has now been moved to another role since 2 days ago, I consider win10 a lost cause currently, and cannot see myself using it for several years at least.
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Referring to that useful tip
http://www.howtogeek.com/262477/how-to-set-an-ethernet-connection-as-metered-in-windows-8-and-10/
Does anyone know how to set the permissions on the registry key back to something safer, as that article would have you leaving the key as writable, when I believe it had read-only status before. (Mind you, a malicious app running as an administrator could of course simply take ownership on it to gain access anyway. So of course, simply don't ever log on as an admin. I don't.)
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Has anyone come across a better solution to this than the registry hack to set as a metered connection.
Twice now Ive lost stuff because of this. You can walk away from the machine for a couple of hours and windows decides your PC is inactive and therefore its a good time to reboot. Tough if youre not there to see the warning that its about to reboot.
I dont mind it downloading the updates. I just want to stop it from doing a reboot until I say its ok to do so and at a time more convenient to me.
It really is annoying because last night I lost work on some open docs (lots of code) and a load of reference windows that I had open were also lost in addition to all my notes I'd been making in notepad - all gone.
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In the Windows Update settings, you can change the "Active Hours" setting so it won't reboot during active hours
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Hi kitz
I'm sure on the last 2 win10 PC you were able to set restart to ask and not auto. However I could be wrong sorry
Here is a little program which may help, but I have not tried it. However, it looks as though it will do what you want
I hope it helps
Many thanks
John
http://www.softpedia.com/get/System/System-Miscellaneous/Windows-Update-MiniTool.shtml
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I think it lets you defer upgrades (https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/instantanswers/20a98a29-df85-b9e9-f04e-e7812bc903f6/defer-upgrades-in-windows-10), but I cant see any settings which allow you to install them/reboot at the time you want. If you are at the pc when it downloads, it will give you a warning that it will reboot at 'x' time, but if you happen to miss that notification then it goes ahead and does it.
So for example at 11.30pm it may say something like scheduled reboot to install updates at 3am.
I may have missed a setting so if someone knows where it is, please let me know. I tried researching it quite extensively a few months ago and at that time there wasnt a solution other than ronski's suggestion of hacking the registry for users using ethernet. I suppose all I really want is to be able to do what I could before and thats let it download, it tell me its downloaded, and then I can install at a time when convenient to me.
Here is a little program which may help,
Thank you, Ive downloaded it and see how it goes. Already its picked up an AV check that would have auto installed tonight, and Ive manually installed. However that said AV updates dont normally cause a reboot. I shall continue to try it out and see what happens on a full Windows update. :)
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Do you have Win 10 Home or do you have a Professional, Enterprise, or Education edition of Windows 10?
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Has anyone come across a better solution to this than the registry hack to set as a metered connection.
Twice now Ive lost stuff because of this. You can walk away from the machine for a couple of hours and windows decides your PC is inactive and therefore its a good time to reboot. Tough if youre not there to see the warning that its about to reboot.
I dont mind it downloading the updates. I just want to stop it from doing a reboot until I say its ok to do so and at a time more convenient to me.
It really is annoying because last night I lost work on some open docs (lots of code) and a load of reference windows that I had open were also lost in addition to all my notes I'd been making in notepad - all gone.
kitz can I ask why you persist with win10 and dont fall back to win8 or 7?
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Because its (mostly) a new PC.
I didnt have a spare Win7 licence so had to buy an OEM Win 10 Pro when I bought all the new parts.
My Win7 licence is on my previous PC (which died)... which has now been cannibalised for a some parts for the new PC, and that win7 machine has been made up with parts from yet another cannibalised PC that was from an XP machine. That only left me with a spare Vista licence... which no way was I going to use.
So this is a 'new' build with brand new o/s installed. Hope that makes sense why I cant fall back.
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So you can do the first one of these too http://www.pcworld.com/article/3085136/windows/two-ways-to-control-or-stop-windows-10-updates.html
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Unfortunately not - That info is outdated. MS has now removed the ability to change it via Group Policy in Win10 Pro :(
iirc when they ditched that hack, this was when Chrys jacked W10 in and rolled back.
As regards to the metered network trick
It only works with a Wi-Fi network. Ethernet need not apply.
See the comments section by people saying it dont work on Win 10 Pro any more :(
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ETA... yes it was
"Group Policy to manage updates worked on pro until the AU update, now is silently blocked." - see Chrys's comment above.
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Sorry, I don't know what "silently blocked" means as I can set it up successfully for Sunday 3.00 am
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Rather than stopping the updates entirely, what about stopping the associated reboots?
These are the first likely looking things I found, I've not tested any of them:
http://www.ghacks.net/2016/09/20/disable-reboot-after-automatic-windows-updates/ (one of the comments mentions that you don't need a third party program to take ownership of a file)
http://tunecomp.net/disable-automatic-reboot-after-updates-installation-in-windows-10/ (has the same task scheduler method as the first, plus a group policy and a registry method)
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Because its (mostly) a new PC.
I didnt have a spare Win7 licence so had to buy an OEM Win 10 Pro when I bought all the new parts.
My Win7 licence is on my previous PC (which died)... which has now been cannibalised for a some parts for the new PC, and that win7 machine has been made up with parts from yet another cannibalised PC that was from an XP machine. That only left me with a spare Vista licence... which no way was I going to use.
So this is a 'new' build with brand new o/s installed. Hope that makes sense why I cant fall back.
is fine was just curious :)
In win10 pro it used to be you could change the automated updates in the policy editor, you could set it to only notify but not install or download.
However with the anniversary build they silently made windows ignore the policy editor settings on pro. So its no longer possible. That was the point I wiped win10 of my test PC, as I lost all hope in the OS.
I expect tho microsoft will let you reuse the win7 licence if you rang with a activation request.
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Attached below are my existing settings.
1) GPE settings - (3 - Auto-download and notify for install) - which is now over-ridden since the anniversary update.
2) Restart options
Rather than stopping the updates entirely, what about stopping the associated reboots?
This would be ideal, I dont want to stop the updates. Just how it automatically reboots. If you aren't at the PC at the time to see the warning its tough luck :(
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Outside active hours is also pretty useless as I run my backups overnight, I have separate backups which all start at various times. I do not want it rebooting itself overnight.
My backup plan is here (http://forum.kitz.co.uk/index.php/topic,18183.msg329426.html#msg329426). Only difference is that I now use macrium rather than windows backup.
Yep it may seem like overkill, but when I had 2 identical drives fail in June this year I'm glad I did have otherwise all the site stuff would be gone now.
Just 2 days ago I would have lost a lot of code if I didnt have a backup, backup. Admittedly that was my fault for uploading and overwriting a wrong file. :/
plus to a lesser extent, there's stuff like DSLstats which will end up closing without doing a graceful shutdown so doesn't do screen caps etc.
Its also possibly the way I work, say if I'm doing some coding or looking at the site late at night. Quite often I will get tired and just abandon things ie not want to shut down anything open or Ive also been known to leave posts half finished.
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I note that some of the suggestions are setting active hours or the now defunct Group Policy Edit.
These are my logs which show what happened last night and how it shut down by itself when I wasnt around.
27/10/2016 21:34:43
Windows Update started downloading an update.
27/10/2016 21:34:44
The access history in hive \??\C:\WINDOWS\System32\SMI\Store\Machine\SCHEMA.DAT was cleared updating 1 keys and creating 1 modified pages.
27/10/2016 21:34:45
The start type of the Windows Modules Installer service was changed from auto start to demand start.
27/10/2016 21:34:51
The start type of the Windows Modules Installer service was changed from demand start to auto start.
27/10/2016 21:36:24
The start type of the Windows Modules Installer service was changed from auto start to demand start.
27/10/2016 21:36:46
The start type of the Windows Modules Installer service was changed from demand start to auto start.
27/10/2016 21:36:47
The start type of the Windows Modules Installer service was changed from auto start to demand start.
27/10/2016 22:01:57
The start type of the Windows Modules Installer service was changed from demand start to auto start.
27/10/2016 22:02:01
Installation Started: Windows has started installing the following update: Cumulative Update for Windows 10 Version 1607 for x64-based Systems (KB3197954)
27/10/2016 22:03:08
Installation Started: Windows has started installing the following update: Security Update for Adobe Flash Player for Windows 10 Version 1607 (for x64-based Systems) (KB3201860)
27/10/2016 22:03:10
Installation Successful: Windows successfully installed the following update: Security Update for Adobe Flash Player for Windows 10 Version 1607 (for x64-based Systems) (KB3201860)
27/10/2016 22:03:10
Installation Started: Windows has started installing the following update: Update for Windows 10 Version 1607 for x64-based Systems (KB3199986)
27/10/2016 22:03:12
Installation Successful: Windows successfully installed the following update: Update for Windows 10 Version 1607 for x64-based Systems (KB3199986)
27/10/2016 22:34:00
The start type of the Background Intelligent Transfer Service service was changed from demand start to auto start.
27/10/2016 22:36:02
The start type of the Background Intelligent Transfer Service service was changed from auto start to demand start.
27/10/2016 23:14:13
The process C:\WINDOWS\System32\svchost.exe (SI7) has initiated the restart of computer SI7 on behalf of user NT AUTHORITY\SYSTEM for the following reason: Operating System: Service pack (Planned)
Reason Code: 0x80020010
Shutdown Type: restart
Comment:
27/10/2016 23:14:28
User Logoff Notification for Customer Experience Improvement Program
27/10/2016 23:15:52
DHCPv6 client service is stopped. ShutDown Flag value is 1
27/10/2016 23:15:53
The Event log service was stopped.
27/10/2016 23:15:57
The kernel power manager has initiated a shutdown transition.
27/10/2016 23:15:58
The operating system is shutting down at system time 2016-10-27T22:15:58.408023100Z.
27/10/2016 23:16:09
The operating system started at system time 2016-10-27T22:16:09.497775500Z.
27/10/2016 23:16:17
Microsoft (R) Windows (R) 10.00. 14393 Multiprocessor Free.
27/10/2016 23:16:17
The Event log service was started.
27/10/2016 23:16:17
The system uptime is 8 seconds.
All I want really is to be able to control updates like I used to be able to and reboot when I want... not when windows thinks it will. Judging by the amount of complaints on the MS site Im far from alone.
Its looking like How to disable auto matic reboot after the installation of updates using the Registry editor (http://tunecomp.net/disable-automatic-reboot-after-updates-installation-in-windows-10/) from ejs link may be the only viable option.. which will be the next thing I try.
It does seem rather stupid that there's no way of controlling a shutdown. The current update system is obviously not designed with people who use their PCs for work related activities outside 9-5... nor those which may actually be doing something useful all the time and there is no such thing as Inactive hours.
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Odd, I still have the option.
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is fine was just curious :)
Didnt mean for it to come across funny, was just trying to explain why I was fully on win10
In win10 pro it used to be you could change the automated updates in the policy editor, you could set it to only notify but not install or download.
However with the anniversary build they silently made windows ignore the policy editor settings on pro. So its no longer possible. That was the point I wiped win10 of my test PC, as I lost all hope in the OS.
I was OK with until then. :(
I expect tho microsoft will let you reuse the win7 licence if you rang with a activation request.
I think I must be struggling to explain what I did. :(
My PC (Win7) mostly died. 2 failed HDDs and graphics card within a week. It was 4 y/o and on 24/7 its a workhorse and was my only PC.
All the site related stuff is done on here and believe it or not, theres a lot of site related work.
I'd already had to replace some other parts such as SSD, NIC, DVDRW etc, so I was beginning to get worried about its reliability.
So several months ago I got new mobo, CPU, memory and 3 new drives and an OEM Win10.
Took some things out of the old Win7 machine ie DVD-RW etc and made a brand new one.
Then using a really old XP machine I merged with what was left of the Win7 to build another PC using the Win7 licence. That PC is in another room atm to be used as a backup device... although someone is wanting it as her PC is about 5-6 y/o and on its last legs and Ive semi promised it to her once I've wiped the drive.
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Odd, I still have the option.
Curious. Did you ever do the GPE hack that worked up until the anniversary update?
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Ok, its todays updates that kills it. The screenshot was whilst updates were pending restart. Just restarted and option has gone. :no:
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kitz check my PM if you interested in ditching win10, and yes I misunderstood what you said sorry, as the win7 license is still been used.
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@chrys.
Thanks for the PM, I must have been responding as you typed the above. :)
Ok, its todays updates that kills it.
Interesting.. Im sure I had seen it before and attempted to play with the settings because I recall it wouldnt let me set inactive hours for less than 12 or something stupid like that.
I wonder if it was the update on the 27th that killed it for me.
I did happen to notice in the logs "Modules Installer service was changed from demand start to auto start" and wondered what that was all about. ???
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That was some big update last night. - KB3197954 (https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/kb/3197954).
I very quickly scanned the files which were updated on the doc and judging from the final figure there was 3,197,954 of them to be installed.
There's a summary here (http://www.tenforums.com/windows-10-news/67560-cumulative-update-kb3197954-windows-10-pc-mobile-build-14393-351-a.html) - a couple mention 'improvements' to Windows update. ie
Improved support for IT administrators using Group Policy to block users updating the operating system from Windows Update.
although how that affects us, Ive no idea.
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I have windows 10 on a Dell Optiplex 7010. The single oem licence on that has allowed me to install and use windows xp, windows 7 and two separate windows 10 systems. It is thus currently a quadruple boot system. One of the 10 systems is only there to test updates!! The only restriction which is not to do with the licence is that xp must on separate disk and not just a separate partition.
As far as I can tell the group policy has continued to work but did need reapplying after the anniversary update which left the update policy set as disabled i.e. no policy. If I don't apply the group policy it does at least always offer the setting of a reboot time and never reboots itself.
The update KB3197954 is not installed and trying it manually gives the message "not applicable to this system". I am sure this won't help people but may help explain why not everyone finds the same thing. I assume the DELL Optiplex oem licences are not standard apart from only working on the assigned DELL systems.
The Optiplex's are not high performance but robust quiet and for me almost too reliable machines. By too reliable I mean that even the oldest, now 12 year old one used as a spare XP just won't die. I hate binning anything that still works! They are only sold on the business side of the DELL web site. My 7010 cost about £100 on ebay when only about 18 months old.
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Could be worth a go to stop windows going to sleep :fingers:
http://www.thewindowsclub.com/prevent-windows-computer-sleep-mouse-jiggler
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:D Brilliant idea. :D
Wonder if it stops my monitors shutting off, I guess it will but I shall give it a go.
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Anyway I dont know what Ive done, but Ive done something - Possibly WUMT (http://forum.kitz.co.uk/index.php/topic,18280.msg336572.html#msg336572) which is running.
When I came to the PC this morning it said there was an update that had been downloaded and needed installing.
The 'update' wasnt a Windows Update, but a Windows Defender update.
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Hi kitz
I'm thinking it's the little program you installed from my post possible, unless you uninstalled it sorry
Many thanks
John
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@d2d4j Yes that prog (WUMT as it calls itself) was running, I think it may be that as well, so thank you. :)
Anyway I dont know what Ive done, but Ive done something - Possibly WUMT (http://forum.kitz.co.uk/index.php/topic,18280.msg336572.html#msg336572) which is running.
It hasnt yet had to deal with a proper Windows Update, but I think it must also treat Windows Defender updates in the same way, because a notification on my screen this morning that there was an update ready to install. The notification was in my notification tray.. not a popup.