Kitz Forum
Broadband Related => Broadband Hardware => Topic started by: skyeci on July 23, 2016, 02:11:07 PM
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Just wondered if anyone has tried or is using the billion 8800nl r2 for vdsl??
Thanks
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From looking at the 8800NL R2 firmware, I think it's using the Broadcom BCM63381 chip, like the TP-Link TD-W9970, and not the same as the 8800NL non-R2.
Edit: added the word "firmware"
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Thanks. Any idea if that chip is compatiable for stats uploading etc..Assuming it is but any guidance appreciated.
Cheers
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yes it is
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looks ugly compared to the 8800nl r1.
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Thanks all. I see some of you billion/eci users have no or little ES (all green on mydsl).. is there any evidence different modems can have different effects on ES or is this purely line related.
Even though my line is now synced at 77mb (after cab
repairs and no fault on my line) I regulary hit 400-600 ES on the downstream per 24 hours. The zyxel has always synced higher but I still get the ES. Would like to see if trying another modem might improve the ES at all or am I wasting my time..? -tried the 8800nl v1 before and it was worse than the zyxel.
I do have a spare 8324 which is nib so could always swap but didnt think it would make much difference?
Wondered if the 8800nl v2 might be worth a go just to see if it improves DS ES at all...
Any thoughts appreciated.
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Pleased to see you asked the question I was wondering about! :)
I'm currently using BT's supplied ECI modem on my FTTC line and had planned to move to a 8800nl when funds allow or if my ECI fails. I've used the original Billion 8800nl v1 for my dad on ADSL and it works well.
The original 8800nl on Amazon seems to have just about disappeared(?) which had many decent reviews. There doesn't seem to be the same feedback (or availability) etc. on the 8800nl v2.
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Sadly the v1 8800nl just caused more DS ES for me.. for the cost of the v2 I thought it might be worth a go as it has a different chip and firmware possibly.
Not found anyone using one though yet...
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Seems a bit strange how the v1 has *gone* but the availability of the v2 is also limited...
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is there actually anything different with the v2 spec wise? I do find it off a device which had good reviews has been replaced with a new sku so quickly which would have had costs associated with it such as redesigning and different parts.
I had a quick look to see if this has official support for vectoring or g.fast listed which it does not.
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Had a chat with tech support , it does have a different chip and new code which is not the same as V1. He said g.inp compatible along with vectoring but that's all.
Might give it bash at some point.. be interested to see if helps with the DS ES
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Seemingly it has a Broadcom chipset "for better stability" ...
http://www.broadbandbuyer.com/products/25615-billion-bipac-8800nl-r2/
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Maybe it is not going to be as good as the R1
http://forum.kitz.co.uk/index.php/topic,18126.msg328530.html#msg328530 (http://forum.kitz.co.uk/index.php/topic,18126.msg328530.html#msg328530)
I think it's using the Broadcom BCM63381 chip, like the TP-Link TD-W9970
Using the cheap budget broadcom chip
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I'm now using one of these. You can see the results on MDWS. I stopped uploading from the HG612 at 15:28 and started uploading from the 8800NL R2 at 15:39.
I haven't tested the WiFi yet because I have little need of it, but I'll check it later. One small observation is that Billion recommend that you use this router in a vertical orientation for best WiFi performance. But it's so light in weight that if you do this the cables tend to drag it off the desk. It does have screw slots for wall mounting, so I suppose this would be the best way to orientate it vertically.
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Hi Roseway
Good to see it works. Lost a bit on your DS sync. Be interesting to see how it goes in the next few days etc. I am tempted as I fancy trying something else to see if I can improve on my ds es.
Keep us posted on its performance if you can
Thanks
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Finding a modem/router that gives you less errored seconds at the same sync rate with a fastpath profile is going to be hard, 477 ES per day amber is still way below the red of 1440 per day.
The only way I know to reduce errored seconds in your case is to reduce the downstream sync via using the modems manual capping telnet settings.
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Thanks. I just wondered if different modems can have different results - was interested to see if a different brand might lower the ds es. The 8800nl v1 was worse. Probably chasing the never never. When g.inp was about it was all the better....
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Have increased my sync by 5Mbps using the 8800nl from a HG612 now I have a Huawei cab with G.INP didn't notice much change in errored second at first but 2 months on with billion in place the ES per day has increased from 7 to 34 per day but the sync has also increased from 34 to 39Mbps so that may be the reason why.
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Openreach increased my sync from 62 to now 77 after cab reapir (eci) - ds es per 24 hours seems no worse than before the fix.. the zyxel has proved to be best sync wise after trying several modems/routers but it would be nice to be in the green.... probably have to live with it ???
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but it would be nice to be in the green.... probably have to live with it ???
You will only see all greens if you line went into Interleaved mode or with G.INP coming back to ECI cabinets.
If I lost G.INP and was moved to fastpath my errored seconds per day would be over 2000 and then moved to Interleaving for a very long time ;)
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Yeap. I get that. Hopefully in 2017 we will get it back. I had next to none back in april prior to losing it. Thanks for your input.
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The stats data reported by the 8800NL R2 includes a couple of extra items.
The timed sections at the end of the stats all include an extra line labelled "Retr:". This looks as though it ought to stand for retransmission, but my values are all zero (downstream) and blank (upstream) even though downstream retransmission is occurring. So I don't know what it is.
Right at the end there's a final extra line:
Since Link time = 15 hours 55 min 59 sec
FEC: 6370 579
CRC: 0 131
ES: 0 126
SES: 0 0
UAS: 0 0
LOS: 0 0
LOF: 0 0
LOM: 0 0
Retr: 0
NTR: mipsCntAtNtr=0 ncoCntAtNtr=0
>
I'm not sure what this is either.
As to the general performance, the connection speed is a bit less that the HG612 and the upstream errored seconds are higher, so first impressions are that on my line the DSL performance is inferior to the HG612.
The device is barely warm. That's with only 2.4G Wifi enabled. It might be hotter with 5G enabled, but that's yet to be checked.
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NTR probably stands for network timing reference, an optional feature of various DSL standards, mentioned as not currently used in BT SIN 498 v7.1. That line might be present with any devices that use the slightly newer Broadcom chips (BCM63381 or BCM63138/7).
Retr could also be an abbreviation for retrains, which might also explain why there's only one number, not down and up counts.
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The device is barely warm. That's with only 2.4G Wifi enabled. It might be hotter with 5G enabled, but that's yet to be checked.
Surely the 8800NL R2 has only 2.4GHz wireless?
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You're absolutely right. I made an assumption. :-[
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I've been very happy with the 8800AXL I'm using here, the 8800NL R2 only having 2.4GHz Wireless isn't a deal-breaker, but I've seen conflicting reports on the LAN ports. One site showed it as 10/100 only, but another showed it as 10/100/1000 - the latter is definitely a necessity as all my LAN is on Gb Ethernet.
Can anyone confirm what the LAN setup actually is on this device, please?
Anyone using it with IPTV, such as Plusnet or BT, and is it easy to set up?
TIA.
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It's got four 10/100 ports and one gigabit port which can be configured as a EWAN port or just left as a fifth LAN port. It's not a problem for me because it's connected to an 8-port gigabit switch and I only use the other router ports for undemanding purposes, such as a network printer.
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@roseway
Thanks for that. The blurb on Broadband Buyer (http://www.broadbandbuyer.com/products/25615-billion-bipac-8800nl-r2/) says "4-port 10/100/1000Mbps switch and 1-port WAN Gigabit port."
Maybe there are a couple of variations out there?
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oops, posted stats from the original version. can't find anything from billion relating to the r2, but seems to be 4 x 10/100 and 1 x giga ewan.
I doubt there's 2 versions to be honest
broadbandbuyer definitely have an error on their page as it states
4-port 10/100/1000Mbps switch and 1-port WAN Gigabit port.
Ethernet port #4 can be configured as a WAN interface for broadband connectivity.
it's not the 4th Ethernet port that's ewan, that line is copied straight from the original versions specs
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Billion's own data only shows the one version, so I'm fairly sure that Broadband Buyer have made a mistake. This is the budget option from Billion, and the much more expensive 8900ax is the top of the line model.
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The 8900ax looks like a decent bit of kit, but almost £250? Not worth that!
My 8800AXL cost about half that, and while it's still working I won't be replacing it.
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Just to conclude my little test of the 8800NL R2, my conclusion is that it's a budget device with budget performance.
The VDSL2 performance is OK on my fairly short line, but the HG612 is better, and the Zyxel VMG8324-B10A (used in bridge mode) is better still.
The WiFi performance is not good at all. Using WiFi Analyzer on my phone I can see three neighbours producing stronger signals inside my house than my own 8800NL R2 did. I don't know how accurate WiFi analyzer is, but practical experiments bear out its results: with my normal router I can make a good connections right out to the farthest reaches of my garden, but that wasn't the case with the Billion.
I've now put the Billion back in its box and I'll be looking for a new home for it.
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Thanks for posting your findings..
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The Billion BiPAC 8800NL R2 performance is poor (Downstream 24mbps) with BT VDSL2 Huawei DSLAM.
My existing Billon BiPAC 8800NL (Broadcom 63168 SoC) achieves 32mbps downstream on our 1.2Km line to the PCP.
ZyXel VMG1312-B10A is my current choice of those that I have tried - I'm not bothered re'wireless performance as I have installed a leaky-feeder throughout our home fed by an AP.
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The Billion BiPAC 8800NL R2 performance is poor (Downstream 24mbps) with BT VDSL2 Huawei DSLAM.
My existing Billon BiPAC 8800NL (Broadcom 63168 SoC) achieves 32mbps downstream on our 1.2Km line to the PCP.
ZyXel VMG1312-B10A is my current choice of those that I have tried - I'm not bothered re'wireless performance as I have installed a leaky-feeder throughout our home fed by an AP.
I had one that was poor on my ADSL line. FTTC cab was installed a few weeks ago so I got a new router for when it happens.
My 7800DXL syncs at about 2.6meg with a 2db margin on a 59db attenuation line. The 8800NL R2 wouldn't go above 1.9. It got sent back.