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Computers & Hardware => PC Hardware => Topic started by: UncleUB on April 03, 2008, 07:34:28 AM

Title: External Hard Drives
Post by: UncleUB on April 03, 2008, 07:34:28 AM
Hi guys I'm looking for a bit of advice about getting  an external HD to back up everything.Does not need to be too big a capacity.There just seems to be a lot of choice out there.I want want that is easy to use and works with vista .
Title: Re: External Hard Drives
Post by: scottiesmum on April 03, 2008, 07:45:04 AM
Phil,  (ooo   I mean UncleUB  !!)   when you say you don't need a large capacity have you thought of a  USB Flash Drive for backing up..... I use one for all my files, photos etc... and I  take it with me  for use on other computers....

some examples here  ...
http://www.amazon.co.uk/s/ref=nb_ss_w_h_/026-1395932-2990042?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=flash+drives&Go.x=0&Go.y=0&Go=Go

bigger ones here

http://www.amazon.co.uk/s/ref=nb_ss_w_h_/202-2059961-9596654?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=16+gb+flash+drives&Go.x=5&Go.y=13&Go=Go

 :)
Title: Re: External Hard Drives
Post by: UncleUB on April 03, 2008, 08:18:55 AM
That looks a good option Kate,it would be mainly for my music and photos.Are those ok for storing music on?The prices look reasonable.  :)

Edit,having had a quick look the choice is mind boggling,even say Sandisk have loads of different ones.What do you need to look for.Is is just price per GB or something else...............
Title: Re: External Hard Drives
Post by: scottiesmum on April 03, 2008, 08:51:10 AM
Yes I know you can store music on them....I'm not sure but I think I read somewhere that  a song size is  a megabyte per minute so a 5 minute song would use 5 megabytes, on a 4G size that would give you 800 songs ?  (I think)  There are all different makes, I have a Kingston and I suppose the bigger the capacity the more expensive  ....sorry there's a lot of ' think's'  there'   :)  all I can tell you for certain is that I find mine very useful and at about the size of a cigarette lighter easy to carry around.   I'm sure the experts on here will be along ..when they've had their breakfast  ;D  to give you more help.   :)
Title: Re: External Hard Drives
Post by: UncleUB on April 03, 2008, 09:43:54 AM
Thanks Kate,I've just seen this and its vista certified.Looks ok for the money.


http://www.dvd.co.uk/Hw/Patriot-XT-Boost-4GB-USB-Flash-Drive-150X/PEF4GUSB/product.htm?fs=froogle
Title: Re: External Hard Drives
Post by: jazz on April 03, 2008, 09:47:12 AM
I have a Freecom 250Gb External Hard Disk Drive that I got from Scan Computers (www.scan.co.uk) around eighteen months ago for about £90.  It has been very good and I use it to back up everything on my computer.  I also use USB Flash Drives for backups and portablility and find them very useful.  They generally reckon to have data retention life of up to ten years so don't forget to check on them and change them from time to time.
Title: Re: External Hard Drives
Post by: scottiesmum on April 03, 2008, 10:26:54 AM
Unc .... it looks OK doesn't it ....  and at that price if you run out of space, you can get another one !!  :)
Title: Re: External Hard Drives
Post by: UncleUB on April 03, 2008, 10:48:23 AM
I find that site really cheap for a lot of stuff,especially SD cards for my camera.



Edit,after jazz recommended freecom this caught my eye.Would I be able to copy te whole contents of my hardrive on here.


http://www.play.com/PC/PCs/4-/3436254/Freecom-Classic-250GB-3-5-External-USB2-0-Hard-Drive-Black/Product.html?cm_mmc=Froogle-_-PC-_-Upgrades-_-Freecom%2BClassic%2B250GB%2B3.5%22%2BExternal%2BUSB2.0%2BHard%2BDrive%2B%2F%2BBlack&source=5066&engine=froogle_pc&keyword=Freecom+Classic+250GB+3.5%22+External+USB2.0+Hard+Drive+%2F+Black
Title: Re: External Hard Drives
Post by: dave.m on April 03, 2008, 12:01:27 PM
You would be able to copy all your files and folders but to copy your OS for a backup incase your onboard hard drive went kapput, you should consider getting something like Acronis True Image that would back up everything including your Windows Vista or XP.
Over the road, Spitfire did a wonderfully simple explanation of how to use it along with screenshots:
http://forums.vnunet.com/thread.jspa?threadID=122623&start=0&tstart=0
He used Acronis 10 but it is pretty much the same for Acronis 11.
dave
This may be of help too:
http://www.wilderssecurity.com/showthread.php?t=168165
Title: Re: External Hard Drives
Post by: UncleUB on April 03, 2008, 01:24:43 PM
Whats anyones thoughts on this,would it do the same job Acronis would?


http://www.originstorage.com/detail.asp?id=8952
Title: Re: External Hard Drives
Post by: oldfogy on April 03, 2008, 04:26:48 PM
Probably just a personal thing but I do not like Flash drives, at least not the one I have, probably because it is very unreliable, it fails to store files more often than it ever succeeds, with a error message of "corrupt data" etc when trying to access them later.  (one of the very early models)

However, one of the main points to look out for with either Flash drives or Memory cards is the "speed" (access speed).
The faster the card/drive the dearer it will be.
Also the faster the card, the quicker your camera would be, ready to take the next shot or when viewing shots (or files).

I purchased a 320 GB External USB HDD from PC World last year for £79.99 and find it pretty good, although USB equipment will always be slightly slower than a internal drive.

But, the biggest draw-back with "large" USB drives is that they need a separate power supply and I keep forgetting to switch mine off when not required.

Most smaller USB drives (GB xx?) do not need a separate power supply as they draw power through the USB socket, therefore automatically switching off when the PC is powered down.
Title: Re: External Hard Drives
Post by: soms on April 03, 2008, 04:42:48 PM
I have a second hand Safecom IDE hard drive enclosure which came with a PC I bought once on eBay.

It has USB and firewire ports, and is externally powered but the top literally unscrews and comes off allowing you to use any IDE hard drive in it.

I have a 200GB HDD (came with it) which I use for file storage but I have put other drives in so I can wipe them in Windows etc.

They are very useful.

I have had more luck with flash drives than OF, the only one I have had go wrong so far was my very first one which I used when doing my GCSEs - after about two years of being in my pocket at school and start of sixth form the USB plug fell off after all those hours of being sat on/pressured took their toll.
Title: Re: External Hard Drives
Post by: stevie on April 03, 2008, 09:22:29 PM
I`ve got 2 of these

http://www.maplin.co.uk/Module.aspx?ModuleNo=221814&source=1&DOY=3m4

& 2 of these.

http://www.pcworld.co.uk/martprd/store/pcw_page.jsp?BV_SessionID=@@@@1016649551.1207253768@@@@&BV_EngineID=ccckadedjmflldjcflgceggdhhmdgmk.0&page=Product&fm=null&sm=null&tm=null&sku=350566&category_oid=-32889

Both come with 5 year warranties, the Seagates look very good to boot.

They do smaller sizes.

Like this.

http://www.maplin.co.uk/Module.aspx?TabID=1&ModuleNo=223785&doy=3m4

http://www.pcworld.co.uk/martprd/store/pcw_page.jsp?BV_SessionID=@@@@1016649551.1207253768@@@@&BV_EngineID=ccckadedjmflldjcflgceggdhhmdgmk.0&page=Product&fm=null&sm=null&tm=null&sku=433570&category_oid=-32889

I`ve also got a 8Gb Sandisk Cruzier Pen drive & a 16Gb pendrive. both work fine.

A lot depends on the ammount of data you wish to back up, whatever you think you will need, Double it & then add some more.

Title: Re: External Hard Drives
Post by: UncleUB on April 04, 2008, 04:10:17 PM
Thanks for that stevie,I like the look of the seagate,can you just drag and drop the files across easily.I am looking for about a 250gb.My main hd is still 80% empty( 230gb spare) but just want to back things up.I just had alook a lacie one on E-Buyer,that looks pretty easy to usejust drag and drop and done.
Title: Re: External Hard Drives
Post by: oldfogy on April 04, 2008, 05:11:17 PM
>> can you just drag and drop the files across easily.

Yes, just drag, drop, copy or paste the same as any other drive.
With large (GB) files you will notice it is "slightly" slower but nothing major.
Title: Re: External Hard Drives
Post by: stevie on April 04, 2008, 11:18:25 PM
Thanks for that stevie,I like the look of the seagate,can you just drag and drop the files across easily.I am looking for about a 250gb.My main hd is still 80% empty( 230gb spare) but just want to back things up.I just had alook a lacie one on E-Buyer,that looks pretty easy to usejust drag and drop and done.

I`d be tempted to go for this, if you click & collect its £64.99 for a 500Gb seagate, only £3 more.

http://www.pcworld.co.uk/martprd/store/pcw_page.jsp?BV_SessionID=@@@@1578854601.1207347202@@@@&BV_EngineID=ccckadedjmflldjcflgceggdhhmdgmk.0&page=Product&sku=970233

As already said, you can drag & drop, it also has a simple simple back-up system if you want to use it.
Title: Re: External Hard Drives
Post by: guest on April 05, 2008, 11:11:03 AM
We've used 10 Freecom Classic SL Network drives for about 5 years and they've been fine - these seem to be the current version : http://www.freecom.com/ecproduct_detail.asp?ID=3400&CatID=8020&sCatID=1146266&ssCatID=1147446

As you can see they work on both 10/100Mbps LAN and USB 2.0 which is rather handy.

One thing I would say is that the drives aren't (IMHO) suitable for leaving powered on 24/7 if you connect them via USB. The first ones we got had a small fan in the enclosure and they stayed cool but they later ones had no fan and ran a bit too hot for my liking although it is worth pointing out that only one of the ten disks has failed. That's not too shabby considering it was running 24/7 recording CCTV footage for 3+ years.

The heat "issue" is something to do with Windows XP and USB drives though as they run cool enough on a LAN or on a Linux box. Windows doesn't seem to be permitting the drive to spin down despite all the power settings being set appropriately but its entirely possible that this is something local to us rather than something generic - I don't have the inclination to investigate further at the moment.
Title: Re: External Hard Drives
Post by: UncleUB on April 05, 2008, 11:56:02 AM
Thanks for all the input guys.All this is new to me because in 13 years since my first computer I have never backed a single thing up(Shock horror I can hear you all saying).So I thought it was time I got my act together and made a start,although I'm not sure what to do and where to start.I have seen acouple of external hard drive sthat look interesting( through your recommondations)
1, Seagate Freeagent
2, Maxtor 1 touch 4
and another one is the Western digital Mybook
The problem is each manufacture has that many models its knowing what to choose.I know I don't want anything more than 500gb.


Edit. I see some drives are pre-formatted to NTFS,others come with FAT32 and need formatting to NTFS,Why?.Can someone explain all this jargon to me please.
Title: Re: External Hard Drives
Post by: Pwiggler on April 06, 2008, 08:23:00 AM
NTFS and FAT32 are types of file systems, i.e. simply put, the data is arranged in different ways.

NTFS is a secure and efficient file system, FAT32 is quite basic and does not have any security (if thats an issue with you).

a FAT32 drive does not need reformating to NTFS coz if you were to drap and drop FROM an NTFS partition, its converted to FAT32 as it is copied across.

have a look at MSs description:   

http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/using/setup/expert/russel_october01.mspx

Title: Re: External Hard Drives
Post by: UncleUB on April 06, 2008, 09:42:20 AM
Thanks Paul,is it the same with vista?
Title: Re: External Hard Drives
Post by: roseway on April 06, 2008, 09:46:32 AM
>> NTFS is a secure and efficient file system

A somewhat dubious point (it suffers badly from fragmentation, and it doesn't have journalling, for example) but I agree that it's better than FAT32, which isn't difficult. :)
Title: Re: External Hard Drives
Post by: oldfogy on April 06, 2008, 09:55:43 AM
Quote
NTFS is a secure and efficient file system, FAT32 is quite basic and does not have any security
Exactly what type of security this is I don't know.

What I feel obliged to point out is that the new PC I purchased last month still came with one of the partitions as FAT32, so if there was a security issue Medion would not send it out like that.

I think the word "security" is a misleading word and really means "Secure" in that Windows Vista or XP can handle it better and in a more efficient manner than FAT32 when it comes to the displacement of data.

Basically Vista or XP is just the names of the OS.

Warning - while you were typing a new reply has been posted. You may wish to review your post.
Title: Re: External Hard Drives
Post by: guest on April 06, 2008, 10:14:11 AM
Quote
Exactly what type of security this is I don't know.

FAT32 has no method of controlling permissions (ie who can read/write/delete/run etc) at anything other than a folder level and even then that's only for access over a network. In short FAT32 has no way of controlling access by users actually working at the computer - for example there would be nothing to stop a user deleting the C:\Program Files folder if they chose to do so.

If you are the only user then its not really that much of an issue but FAT32 is hideously inefficient and was really just a bodge to allow larger volume sizes and also long file names (the latter was much more important to MS than the former).
Title: Re: External Hard Drives
Post by: UncleUB on April 14, 2008, 11:21:28 AM
Just got one of these,I've transfered all my music and photo's.Can't believe how simple and painless it was.When I finished just clicked on 'the safely remove icon' and removed the pen drive.When I put it straight back in it was recognised straight away without a restart. :)

Edit,just noticed the pen drive is FAT32,should I have formatted before downloading my files,or does it not really matter.Also it is a 4GB drive but with only 3.72GB capacity.Where's the 280MB gone?

[attachment deleted by admin]
Title: Re: External Hard Drives
Post by: mr_chris on April 15, 2008, 04:40:24 PM
>> Also it is a 4GB drive but with only 3.72GB capacity.Where's the 280MB gone?

Traditionally, capacities were measured in powers of 2, e.g. 1, 2, 4, 8, 16, 32, 64, 128 etc. Because of the way computer architecture works, these were natural boundaries for memory etc in computers. The old 8 bit computers like the Spectrum and the BBC were limited to 64KB of addressable memory space - this was 65,536 bytes (216).

So over time, 1 Kilobyte has become known as 1,024 bytes, rather than 1,000. Similarly, 1 Megabyte = 1,024 KB, or 1,048,576 bytes. Similar for 1GB.

It seems that storage manufacturers use the decimal versions of GB rather than the binary versions... so given you've bought this 4GB storage card ... they use 4GB = 4,000,000,000 bytes... divide this by 1,073,741,824 (230 - the number of bytes in 1 computer GB!) gives you 3.72529 GB
Title: Re: External Hard Drives
Post by: UncleUB on April 15, 2008, 05:35:02 PM
Thanks mr chris.Will have to get the calculator out in future. :)
Title: Re: External Hard Drives
Post by: oldfogy on April 15, 2008, 10:23:09 PM
For "quick" mental maths I just work on 10% - (minus).

But if you want to be a "little bit" more accurate without being exact just try minus 7%

So: 4 - 7% = 3.72
Title: Re: External Hard Drives
Post by: UncleUB on April 16, 2008, 06:34:32 AM
Oh thats much easier OF.My internal drive is a 320GB which I'm left with 297GB.So your -7% is spot on.Thanks.  ;)