Post by: Bowdon on May 07, 2016, 09:45:16 AM
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Microsoft has announced that the free all-you-can-eat Windows 10 upgrade buffet will close forever on July 29, and that after that you'll have to pay for all the fun of its latest operating system.
US$119 is the price Redmond has set for the Home version of the operating system. A sales person in a live chat session on the Microsoft online store told us the UK price will be £99.99 while Australians will pay the quaint price of AU$161.10.
Post by: kitz on May 13, 2016, 10:40:19 PM
One of those things - never seem to find to play with or sort my own kit :(
Post by: Chrysalis on May 14, 2016, 03:17:31 AM
upgrade to win10 and make sure activated
restore backup
upgrade at your own leisure on a later date pre activated.
Post by: Ronski on May 14, 2016, 08:56:37 AM
I recently moved over to W10 on my main system here and am happy with it, once my daughters finish school I'll be moving their computers over, I also need to do our two media centre PC's which now have mediaportal installed instead of Windows Media Centre.
Post by: Bowdon on May 14, 2016, 10:28:08 AM
If windows update isnt working fully for you then I suggest using the Media Creation Tool here: https://www.microsoft.com/en-gb/software-download/windows10 (https://www.microsoft.com/en-gb/software-download/windows10)
It will give you an option of creating an image on to a usb/dvd storage source or upgrading your computer. I created the image on a usb stuck, then just let it upgrade my computer. Just make sure you dont have any other usb device plugged in except your mouse and keyboard. I think the issue comes from usb storage devices seems to cause a bug where it stops at a certain percentage.
I've never had an issue upgrading with the media creation tool. I guess I should also mentioned I had changed something in the registery on the new comp trying to set my default locations to my storage hdd instead of the system ssd and it messed things up. Luckily there was a newer version of Windows that had come out so I ended up changing the registry entries back and over installing the new win10 version over the old version and it set everything back to working. When Win10 works its a lot better imho. Just make sure you make the backup image as a safety precaution.
PS, I did use roll back when I got in to problems with the reg edit stuff as it only showed up when I first attempted to upgrade to the new version of win10. So I had to roll back. The old version of Windows keeps on your system as Windows.old. You can delete it once everythings working. Good luck!
Post by: Chrysalis on May 14, 2016, 05:55:52 PM
There's speculation that may not work, some say your key for W7 or W8 becomes invalid when upgrading, but you have 30 days to roll back, so if you do roll back by whatever means does the W10 installation stay activated, especially after the 29 July, that's the big question.
I recently moved over to W10 on my main system here and am happy with it, once my daughters finish school I'll be moving their computers over, I also need to do our two media centre PC's which now have mediaportal installed instead of Windows Media Centre.
this didnt happen for me.
Although my win7 keys do work on 10 machines each (technet keys), so it is possible they been reduced to nine, but I dont think microsoft will goto the effort of disabling the keys.
Also regardless if the keys are deactivated the backup will have the windows in a already activated state anyway.
Post by: Ronski on May 14, 2016, 06:46:06 PM
this didnt happen for me.
Can you share your secrete of time travel with me please as for the rest of us 29 July 2016 is yet to arrive ;)
PS I'm temped to keep my old machine on Windows 7
Post by: Chrysalis on May 14, 2016, 07:05:21 PM
So basically the win7 key I used to upgrade my win10 test machine still works if I use it on a new install and activate.
Windows 10 isnt aweful, my main reason for not using it is the enforce rapid development model, on all my production machines I manage my updates via komms update checker which installs all hotfixes not just windows updates, I like the ability to keep certian updates not installed and upgrade at my own pace. I also value a stable UI.
On my windows 10 test machine, everytime there is a new build (update that requires OS reinstall) apps break, notably security apps and 7 taskbar tweaker. Then there is a time lag before these apps get fixes to catch up. Sometimes core windows functions break as well e.g. hyperv was broken for me between RTM and TH2. The policy editor trick to set update to notify only is ok, it adds a degree of control back, but its not the same as win 8.1 and 7.
Funny enough it turns out DX12 is actually a bit of a hindrance as microsoft have tied that to the universal apps code, meaning DX12 stuff uses microsoft store API's and various functions gamers are used to in game dont work as well such as controlling vsync. So with me not currently been bothered by DX12, I dont think win10 has a single feature I crave for. Of course this may change over time but I am ok for now on 8.1.
I am now glad I upgraded from win7 tho, as I discovered the newer WDDM model in 8.1 works much better for gaming, the appcontainer is a good security improvement and I like the start screen as a good idle screen showing status of weather etc. I used my 2 licenses I brought for win8 when it was released on the cheap upgrade offer they had (was about 10gbp each). Secureboot is also a very good security improvement to protect from malware bootloaders.
Back on topic, remember the pricing revealed is scaremongering, oem keys for windows 10 will likely be available on key sites for very low prices (sub 20GBP) and microsoft themselves will very likely pull out some kind of offer, as they still want people to switch.
Post by: Ronski on May 14, 2016, 09:15:53 PM
Only problem I've had so far with W10 is the software for flashing my new phone didn't work, had to use W7, hence I think it would be a good idea for me to keep one PC with W7
Post by: Chrysalis on May 14, 2016, 10:00:38 PM
Post by: c6em on May 18, 2016, 05:26:58 PM
All reset back as Win7 pro 64 bit SP1 and now updated by myself to the current state of Win7.
So the question:
Is there anyway of finding out whether in its past life it had been upgraded to win10?
Post by: AArdvark on May 22, 2016, 07:48:41 AM
Be aware that a Win 10 Upgrade installs a Win 10 license that is 'keyed' to the machine & its build (via unique identifiers).
This is NOT the same as Win 7 or 8.x, so any previous 'Win 10 upgrade' install cannot conflict with any existing install and/or Win 10 license key. If it has been previously upgraded it will be looking for a match in the hardware configuration which cannot exist elsewhere at the same time. (unless the hardware has been 'cloned') <jk> !!!
Clean installs of Win 10 from Physical media or disk images *may* work differently but I believe that MS is now using the unique identifiers on all machines to cross reference the Win 10 keys to each machine.
IMPORTANT
==========
I would advise you perform a full backup of the Win7 Installation *first* so you can run a restore back to the state 'before' the 'GWX' software was installed & run.
Full backup means a disk image to ensure 'ALL' changes are able to be overwritten and 'reversed'.
Macrium Reflect Free will be able to do this ......... see ----> http://www.macrium.com/reflectfree.aspx
(Have used this 'in anger' and it works !!!
)Hope this helps !!!
Think carefully before 'drinking the Win 10 Koolaid' and remember you have 30 days to 'roll back' the Win 10 upgrade, if you change your mind and have NOT created a 'working' Full disk backup to undo the 'Win 10 Experience' as above.
Sent from my Samsung SM-P900 via Tapatalk (Typos & Bad formatting are free)
Post by: NewtronStar on June 22, 2016, 11:14:20 PM
The user of this PC was complaining of a slow internet pages slow boot slow everything, so purchased a windows 8.1 licence key for £15 backed up the XP data installed Windows 8.1 and this old PC is super quick again and 2 days later it's now a Windows 10 OS and still super quick.
From XP to Windows 10 for £15 so don't let this Windows 10 free upgrade slip by
Post by: z1ts on June 24, 2016, 04:01:18 PM
£19.99 W7 licences so a tad more expensive than yours...... :(
My tuppence worth:- W10 has solved more of my problems (with accross the dozen or so PC's I 'manage') than it's created......! I know it's had a bit of 'bad press' here & there and poor old M$ have taken a bit of a beating over it, but in my honest opinion it's a not bad system!!
z1ts
Post by: WesBez7 on June 24, 2016, 04:37:18 PM
Post by: underzone on June 24, 2016, 06:50:36 PM
https://www.safer-networking.org/spybot-anti-beacon/ (https://www.safer-networking.org/spybot-anti-beacon/)
Post by: loonylion on June 25, 2016, 11:11:42 AM
Post by: Chrysalis on June 25, 2016, 12:18:39 PM
Post by: z1ts on June 27, 2016, 09:08:00 AM
Yes - fully aware of the 'privacy' concerns, but as I'm a good boy I've got nothing to hide......... :angel:
z1ts ;)
Post by: NewtronStar on June 27, 2016, 11:01:45 PM
Post by: RayW on June 30, 2016, 07:28:35 AM
https://blogs.windows.com/windowsexperience/2016/06/29/windows-10-anniversary-update-available-august-2/
Post by: Chrysalis on June 30, 2016, 06:40:24 PM
My big problem is since removing the stuff to stop Windows 10 upgrading Window 8.1 I don't seem to be able to reverse this process IE Windows 8.1 won't upgrade to Windows10 :(
this may change given microsoft have just been successfully sued for forced upgrades.
Post by: NewtronStar on July 02, 2016, 03:54:01 PM
Have not tried this clean boot suggestion that some people use to get to fully install, using Windows 8.1 pro with media center could that be reason why it stops upgrading.
Post by: NewtronStar on July 03, 2016, 01:13:21 AM
Post by: Chrysalis on July 03, 2016, 02:11:24 AM
1 - Download a win10 install iso and boot of it to install, it should detect windows and offer you an upgrade install.
2 - Or do a clean install of win10 and use the window 8 key after installation to activate. Actually I am not sure which part of the install process the key will need to be entered.
Post by: parkdale on July 03, 2016, 06:20:06 PM
As long as you have the original key, there should be no problem going back. but after 29th July I think :no: any install, even with a captured hardware profile, will be an paid for upgrade?
I have got Win 7 and Win 10 on dual boot on my machine (had spare win 8 retail key) so I can keep my win 7 retail License.
Also had to ring MS to get win 8 key cleared for reuse!
Post by: Chrysalis on July 04, 2016, 12:19:44 AM
Post by: NewtronStar on July 04, 2016, 08:18:50 PM
I consider you got 2 options.
1 - Download a win10 install iso and boot of it to install, it should detect windows and offer you an upgrade install.
2 - Or do a clean install of win10 and use the window 8 key after installation to activate. Actually I am not sure which part of the install process the key will need to be entered.
It's some driver or program installed on WIN8.1 which is stopping WIN10 to fully upgrade it gets to 6% in the app & driver install section and then that's when it hits a problem wish it would tell me which program or driver is the issue >:(
And used a USB Win10 ISO this time
I think there are going to a lot of Windows 8.1 users in the same situation were it won't upgrade to WIN10 :-\
Post by: NewtronStar on July 05, 2016, 01:10:14 AM
Post by: Chrysalis on July 05, 2016, 02:51:48 PM
https://www.pcper.com/news/General-Tech/Microsoft-Will-Still-Be-More-Polite-First
Also I take it you prefer win10 over 8 and 7 given you reupgraded?
Post by: NewtronStar on July 05, 2016, 09:29:17 PM
Also I take it you prefer win10 over 8 and 7 given you reupgraded?
Have rolled back to Win8.1 again the creative X-FI ExtremeGamer sound card will work on Win10 but the creative software to change EQ and Bass redirection THX + CMSS 3D and a some other stuff won't work on Win10 which is big loss to me being an Audio Geek.
Looks like i'm stuck on Win8.1 untill there is a good soundcard with all the software features I need and works with 10
Post by: Chrysalis on July 05, 2016, 11:14:41 PM
Post by: NewtronStar on July 06, 2016, 12:10:18 AM
Post by: Dave2150 on August 03, 2016, 01:50:38 AM
DirectX12 my gaming days are nearly over Chry there is one more game to play before I hit the 50 mark and that will be the latest TombRaider game just waiting for it to drop to £16.
Get a 2nd/3rd gen VR headset in the future and rediscover games :) Also DX12/vulkan are the future, so we'll all be on W10 whether we like it or not! That said, once you configure the privacy options, W10 is simply a faster version of W7, so no looking back for me and millions of other users really.
We'll need a killer app or game, HL3 for example, to require DX12, to make the most stubborn/paranoid people that refuse to upgrade to join the party :lol:
Post by: Chrysalis on August 03, 2016, 01:05:19 PM
The same reason why game developers still support windows XP today, they want to maximise sales.
Vulkan is different however as that is cross platform. So we may see games using vulkan only.
Also HL3 would never ever be DX12 only :) valve would use vulkan given they dont want people using the windows store.
W10 is not just a faster version of W7 as you put it.
W7 has no modern apps.
W7 doesnt force updates.
W7 does not change UI elements every few months on threshold builds.
W7 does not reset settings on updates undoing tweaks.
W7 is faster than W10 on my hardware.
W7 does not data mine file contents for telemetry, even tho telemetry has been added to W7 it is not in the same league as W10 telementry.
W10 telemtry is so bad it causes my dad's pc to slow down for what seems forever as its continuily thrashed his hdd and used cpu cycles. (noticeable on low end hardware).
W7 does not reboot without user interaction on updates.
W7 does not force new drivers onto the machine.
W7 does not have oversized Ui elements.
W7 does not integrate cloud functions (which I see as a benefit).
W7 does not require app developers to make a new version of app to keep it working on the OS when there is OS updates.
There is more differences then that as well, but I think I posted enough to make it clear what you posted was a tad naive.
With that said tho I dont use W7 anymore, some parts of it have become too dated, so I moved to W8.1 which I seen as a middle compromise, I get benefits of the new applocker security model, hyperV and able to use new modern apps if I want to, but without the downsides of the new updating system.
Microsoft's end game is still a locked down system, ultimately they want to kill win32 and have everything installed via their windows store. They want the apple model. Windows 10 will slowly transition to that state.
Post by: Dave2150 on August 04, 2016, 05:17:32 PM
I cannot see anyone other than microsoft using DX12 exclusively on games, it makes no business sense, as they then cannot sell their games to the hundreds of millions of windows7/8 users out there.
The same reason why game developers still support windows XP today, they want to maximise sales.
Vulkan is different however as that is cross platform. So we may see games using vulkan only.
Also HL3 would never ever be DX12 only :) valve would use vulkan given they dont want people using the windows store.
W10 is not just a faster version of W7 as you put it.
W7 has no modern apps.
W7 doesnt force updates.
W7 does not change UI elements every few months on threshold builds.
W7 does not reset settings on updates undoing tweaks.
W7 is faster than W10 on my hardware.
W7 does not data mine file contents for telemetry, even tho telemetry has been added to W7 it is not in the same league as W10 telementry.
W10 telemtry is so bad it causes my dad's pc to slow down for what seems forever as its continuily thrashed his hdd and used cpu cycles. (noticeable on low end hardware).
W7 does not reboot without user interaction on updates.
W7 does not force new drivers onto the machine.
W7 does not have oversized Ui elements.
W7 does not integrate cloud functions (which I see as a benefit).
W7 does not require app developers to make a new version of app to keep it working on the OS when there is OS updates.
There is more differences then that as well, but I think I posted enough to make it clear what you posted was a tad naive.
With that said tho I dont use W7 anymore, some parts of it have become too dated, so I moved to W8.1 which I seen as a middle compromise, I get benefits of the new applocker security model, hyperV and able to use new modern apps if I want to, but without the downsides of the new updating system.
Microsoft's end game is still a locked down system, ultimately they want to kill win32 and have everything installed via their windows store. They want the apple model. Windows 10 will slowly transition to that state.
There's nothing wrong with preferring W7 or W8.1, as we all have a choice to install and use whichever OS we choose to. I do feel it's rather silly to exaggerate or flat out lie to try and argue your point, however.
I'll address some of your incorrect points:
1. There are already many games out there that don't support Windows XP. Examples include the incredibly popular Battlefield series, ever since the 2011 release of Battlefield 3. In fact the vast majority of AAA games don't work on XP anymore, so your point here is completely incorrect.
2. In the future, games will require DX12. This is inevitable. I'm not sure how old you are, though though of us who have been around the PC gaming scene for a few years already know that older DX versions are eventually made obsolete and are not used or supported. An example of which is Fallout 4, it is a Directx 11 only game, such are the vast majority of AAA game releases in 2016. I'd say that within the next year we'll start to see games require W10 to play. Each quarter that will go by from that point will increase the number of W10 only games. Then eventually, all AAA games will require W10, regardless of not if they are DX12 only.
3. Windows 10 is a faster operating system than W7 and W8.1. This has been proven in many reviews/benchmarks that have compared it to W7 and W8.1. It boots fater, handles resources faster and is simply a far more fluid experience than any Windows OS before it. Of course if your running on an old potato of PC, you'll see less difference, though you cannot deny that W10 is faster.
4. Modern Apps? I don't use any, they can even be easily uninstalled if you wish.
5. Why would you not want updates? Without them your system is left open to security threads. Nonetheless if, you truly wish to disable updates, this can also be done on W10, though I wouldn't recommend it.
6. Threshold builds. You claim they occur "every few months". Are you aware that there has only been one so far, in the 1 year of W10's history? Even so, it look me seconds to change a few settings back to my preferred options once I had upgraded to v1511
7. You system must be extremely old to not run faster on W10. I'd suggest checking if it meets the minimum requirements to install the OS, perhaps that's where your problems lie?
8. W10 can easily be configured to not collect any data. There is even a program called "Spybot Anti-Beacon" for those without the knowledge of how to disable the data collection themselves.
9. My PC takes around 6 seconds to boot with an NVME SSD. That said, I've never had it reboot without my intervention, though I'm in the habit of rebooting if I need to, as a 6 second boot time for me isn't a big deal. Perhaps if you are booting off a old 5400RPM HDD this could be a nuisance, though in this day and age, SSD's are affordable and ubiquitous.
10. W10 can easily be configured to not install new drivers, it's a less than 10 second process.
11. I'm pleased with how the UI elements of W10 scale on my monitors. My main monitor is a 1440P screen, though my 1080P laptop also feels and looks great. Very similar to W7. These settings can also be customised if you so wish.
12. Cloud functions? I assume you mean onedrive? This can also be disabled very easily if you don't like it, though obviously data is only stored in the one drive cloud if you would transfer data there, an action which requires you to do so yourself.
13. Updating Apps is a fairly common and needed scenario, as windows updates improve security and have performance features.
Anyway, all this is besides the point. Everyone will have to upgrade to W10 eventually, as Microsoft's support for older OS's is counting down by the minute:
Windows XP: Mainstream and extended support has ended.
Windows Vista: Mainstream support has ended. Extended support ending in 2017
Windows 7: Mainstream support has ended. Extended support ending in 2020
Windows 8/8.1 Mainstream supports ends in 2018. Extended support ending in 2023
Time is ticking, though I imagine the vast majority of current PC users will be tablet users by 2023, making our discussion rather pointless ;D
Post by: Chrysalis on August 04, 2016, 06:52:30 PM
the steamdb shows over 70% of games released in last year or so are dx9 games, and thats with xp smaller install base than win7 which has the biggest chunk of users
Post by: parkdale on August 04, 2016, 10:21:59 PM
http://www.pcadvisor.co.uk/feature/windows/windows-10-upgrade-still-free-why-upgrade-windows-10-is-windows-10-good-3618139/
Post by: Chrysalis on August 05, 2016, 01:52:01 AM
On the full screen interruptions, it should be noted that if you disable auto updates in windows 10 pro via the policy editor, it will resort to full screen interruptions with the only clickable option to immediatly proceed with the update, pressing the escape key will cancel it tho, although only temporarily the full screen interruption comes back at intervals. Why microsoft consider this acceptable behaviour I dont know.
Post by: kitz on August 05, 2016, 02:43:29 AM
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they must be hoping few a few stragglers to sign up.
Cant check atm, but as of about 1 hr after midnight on the 29th, I clicked the update on my Win7 Pro and it said the offer had expired and it was like that yesterday. Annoyingly the update icon was still in the system tray even though it said expired.
Post by: Chrysalis on August 05, 2016, 03:30:13 AM
Post by: parkdale on August 05, 2016, 06:29:19 PM
https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/accessibility/windows10upgrade?tduid=(7a4fadf5671dec7bafc41547c020a413)(266696)(1503186)(skim66960X1514734X39b3cfb0f7bcad676bcfa585098096f7)()
Post by: kitz on August 06, 2016, 07:15:03 PM
@parkdale - thanks for that link. Ive decided now Im going to keep my Win7 pro. Currently doing a new build with Win10 and cannibalising 2 old PCs for Win7 machine which I never got around to updating. It was the dead drives and an intermittant fault with my graphics card which made me decide that I perhaps need to do some updating.
Post by: Chrysalis on August 06, 2016, 09:43:05 PM
avast broken (uninstalled on win10 rig now anyway to test new eset v10 beta)
eset partially broken
hmpa partially broken
firewall rules for system binaries reset to default settings
tasks created by microsoft reset to default settings
Dont know what else yet on my win10 testing box, but its not as broken as the first update. This time system policies and drivers survived.
Also found this
https://m.reddit.com/r/Windows10/comments/4vufpo/windows_10_fully_freezes_after_anniversary_update/
No worries from me on you keeping win7, use what you most happy with and dont feel obliged to follow the sheep. :)
Post by: Ronski on August 07, 2016, 07:43:40 AM
Post by: parkdale on August 07, 2016, 12:50:16 PM
Post by: Chrysalis on August 08, 2016, 04:12:12 PM
Whats broken with Avast on W10, I've not noticed anything yet? I haven't received the anniversary update yet though.
It is related to the secure boot driver enforcement change, it was not applied in any of the insider builds prior to the AU update so it caught many security vendors by surprise.
As I said before Win10 cannot be relied on for a stable platform where "things just work", it's code "subject to change" when microsoft deem fit. They have took on a rapid development model which some people like, but some people also dont like it. Thats why it is a love it or loathe it product.
Also it seems the AU update prevents some group policies from working on pro edition, they can still be configured but now silently fail if it isnt a enterprise or education, or server SKU.
I expect a phone call from my dad soon as well when all the data mining tasks get re enabled in task scheduler making his pc slow to a crawl again. :(
Post by: NewtronStar on August 08, 2016, 07:38:48 PM
PS my line is buggering about this evening