Kitz Forum
Broadband Related => Broadband Hardware => Topic started by: kitz on March 29, 2008, 12:44:40 AM
-
Yes it is Official: I have just had the confirmation from Netgear.
The new firmware has been Released!
You get the new firmware from here: http://kbserver.netgear.com/release_notes/d103272.asp (http://kbserver.netgear.com/release_notes/d103272.asp)
The new firmware combines a new DSL code from Infineon which addressees the LOM (Loss of Margin) drops whereby the modem re-syncs when the SNR margin fluctuates. Zen have tested the new firmware at on DSL max lines prior to the release and Netgear have now released it to the public.
Thank you to all who have given feedback to either Zen or Netgear Directly.
Kindest Regards,
L.Goile
Please use this thread to pass on any observations about the updated firmware version.
-
Just today I installed the new firmware on my DG834 v3.
Impressed so far, the router is presently holding sync with a noise margin varying as low as -1dB, something I had not noticed the router do previously. I will be interested to see if it drops out later this evening or if the new firmware will allow it to hang on all night.
-
Hi all,
I have this router and have been having a problem with extreme SNR drops in the evenings, leading to lower sync speeds than I should have. My attenuation is 48db and current ip profile 3000. I often wake in the morning to find the router resynced to somewhere between 4300 and 4800, which holds through the day but, without fail, I am forced to reboot in the evening after the SNR drops to negative figures. At this time, anything above 3500kbps is unstable.
I was going to look for a Thompson Speedtouch as recommended by b4dger, but found this firmware upgrade last night and gave it a try.
I have RouterStats graphs from before and after the upgrade. Graph1 (http://www.belvederecourt.org.uk/graph1.jpg) and Graph2 (http://www.belvederecourt.org.uk/graph2.jpg) are from last night before the upgrade. You can see the crazy drop-off. The router did actually hang on to the connection but it became unusable. This is where I'd normally force a reboot to a lower sync. I then installed the new firmware and the improvement was immediately obvious. A much improved SNR and I've held on to a 4544 sync for 24 hours for the first time. Graph1b (http://www.belvederecourt.org.uk/graph1b.jpg) and Graph2b (http://www.belvederecourt.org.uk/graph2b.jpg) were captured this evening at the same times as the previous ones. There's still a drop-off but it's not extreme and is good enough keep things running smoothly. I will hopefully see my IP profile improving in the coming days.
I hope this is of use. Now, I just wish I could find out what causes the drop in SNR in the first place.
Thanks to Kitz for the excellent info on this site and to b4dger as well, for detailing his efforts with the same problem.
-
Hi emgee and welcome. That's really good information which tends to support the claims made for the new firmware, so thanks for providing it.
I would say that the 'after' graphs don't look particularly unusual - it's quite common for the noise margin to fall in the evening, because there are numerous sources of interference which increase after dark. The 'before' graphs are unusual, and could well be the result of the known problem with the earlier firmware.
-
... but found this firmware upgrade last night and gave it a try.
I have RouterStats graphs from before and after the upgrade. Graph1 (http://www.belvederecourt.org.uk/graph1.jpg) and Graph2 (http://www.belvederecourt.org.uk/graph2.jpg) are from last night before the upgrade. You can see the crazy drop-off. The router did actually hang on to the connection but it became unusable. This is where I'd normally force a reboot to a lower sync. I then installed the new firmware and the improvement was immediately obvious. A much improved SNR and I've held on to a 4544 sync for 24 hours for the first time. Graph1b (http://www.belvederecourt.org.uk/graph1b.jpg) and Graph2b (http://www.belvederecourt.org.uk/graph2b.jpg) were captured this evening at the same times as the previous ones...
I will be emailing Netgear again. It appears the new firmware has an issue with Authing. Twice in the last 48hrs, it has dropped and not picked it back up again. I am checking just in case its our side thats doing it.
Thats good news, and I appreciate the feedback emgee. As for my comment, i was wrong to blame the firmware. It appears the modem is hit by DoS attacks and subsequently kills the modem. We have since changed the username and its working extremely well. I have a second test line and this is working extremely well.
I think to say the least, that we can now rule out the AR7 chipset as a possible fault when the upgrade has been applied.
If you own or use the v3 and would like to provide feedback, please PM me and i will give you an email address to send to.
Leo Goile
-
Hi emgee,
Thanks for your post.
Your connection looks much improved and the difference shows clearly in your graphs - looks like Netgear have made some improvements!
All they need to do is update their other AR7 firmwares now.
Hope things continue to work well for you - you should have much less IP Profile 'ping-pong' if things stay stable ;D
-
From the other thread
Thanks for confirming that Azzaka.
I've got it installed on my DG834Gv3, and it's coping surprisingly well with my currently very noisy line.
-
Quote by lodge from the other thread.
Anyone else out there with a v3 on a long line could also try this - then when we hear how they got on and see the SNRM RouterStats graph we'll know if Netgear have 'fixed' things!
Well, I am on a long line and downloaded this 'upgrade' 24 hours ago and it hasn't made a jot of difference. In fact, I have had more drops than usual. I had been deferring buying a new router waiting for this to come out, but i think I will be visiting Ebay or similar soon. :no:
-
The 'before' graphs are unusual, and could well be the result of the known problem with the earlier firmware.
The before graphs are typical of those I was experiencing on my line when using AR7 chipset routers (D Link and SAR) which suggests to me that it is an AR7 associated issue. For me the wild margin swings went away when I switched to a Speedtouch. It's good that Netgear addressed this issue, but it doesn't look as if there are any firmware updates for my AR7 routers in the pipeline.
Now, I just wish I could find out what causes the drop in SNR in the first place.
As Roseway said I think you are now seeing a 'normal' evening drop in SN margin with the new firmware. Don't think there is a lot you can do about that, but at least your IP profile should stabilise and maybe your target SN margin will be reduced in time.
-
Update:
Just to confirm, connection is very stable and my IP profile has gone up. :)
-
Excellent! Thanks for letting us know.
-
My connection didn't hold the night it was getting -1dB to 2dB ds noise margin but I wasn't to surprised by that.
Has held steady sync since with a line rate better than the other routers I have used, so overall for the plain DG834 version the new firmware seems fine.
-
Hi folks,
I've not had such a positive experience with the new .37 firmware. I've delayed posting for a few days so that I had the chance to spend my evenings crawling round clutching my old AM tranny, re-routing cables, re-siting power bricks, replacing filters, and putting in a properly-shielded modem cable. The upshot is that the environment is much more favourable than it was when I had the old firmware running.
Sadly, things aren't really any better with the DG834v3. Stability until sometime between 5 and 6pm, then huge fluctuations in SN margin: 7dB to 0dB and everywhere in between in the space of 10 mins. And at 0dB for anything other than split seconds, the DG834v3 drops the line and re-trains.
However, with my nice shiny new Thomson TG585v7 (Speedtouch successor) - stability. It drops by 2-3dB between 5 and 8pm, then it's steady +/-0.5dB. (Incidentally, a big 'thank you' to b4dger for finding the right modem first...)
Downside to the TG585v7 (user interface apart) is that it will drop/re-train if the SN margin stays at 5dB or below for more than a few minutes, as far as I can put things together from the RouterStats log. So the Netgear holds sync at lower SN margin but even with the .37 firmware can't hold the SN margin stable enough to make that a virtue.
[Background: I'm c.2km from the exchange, suburban, so a mix of underground and poles. Line attenuation d/s around 36dB. Both modems will sync at 8064 (that's with interleaving, which is odd...), but I get extremely high CRC error rates at that speed. I'm aiming for stability at around 7300kbps (enough to keep my 6500 BRAS profile, anyway).]
-
Thanks for that information (and welcome to the forum :) )
Despite what some over-enthusiastic people have suggested, I think it's inevitable that not everyone will find this particular combination best for them. In my case, when I had a temporary line fault the DG834G with the new firmware seemed to give me the best result, but now the fault has cleared I'm back with the ST576 which was always the best for me before.
-
Thanks for that information (and welcome to the forum :) )
Despite what some over-enthusiastic people have suggested, I think it's inevitable that not everyone will find this particular combination best for them. In my case, when I had a temporary line fault the DG834G with the new firmware seemed to give me the best result, but now the fault has cleared I'm back with the ST576 which was always the best for me before.
I do agree with Roseway, the new firmware will not fix all issues and think in your case rwm32 the chipset is still pushing the line and hence you are seeing the drops. If you have found a modem that works then use it, and I personally appreciate the feedback.
-
Well, after several days of stability following the upgrade, I started to experience the huge drops again two nights ago and my IP profile suffered. I'm hoping that was a one-off though, as it's improved again, but not as stable as it was immediately after the update. Go figure.
It does seem that this chipset is particularly sensitive to interference. Here (http://www.belvederecourt.org.uk/graph3.JPG) is a graph from earlier today. There are four extreme drops in the noise margin, and I have managed to isolate the cause... the kettle! I noticed the correlation, tested it and, sure enough, every time it boils, my SNR drops ??? Would something like a surge protecter help with this?
Anyway, I still feel there is room for improvement, so have just ordered a Thomson 585 v6 from ebay. I'm curious to see the difference.
-
... and I have managed to isolate the cause... the kettle! I noticed the correlation, tested it and, sure enough, every time it boils, my SNR drops ??? Would something like a surge protecter help with this? ...
I would say yes it would. But also a new faceplate can help as well. I gained an extra 1mb on my line when i used a faceplate from adslnation. Worth a try also.
-
Thanks for the update emgee.
I will be interested to see see what you think of the Speedtouch - I still swear by mine!
For the sake of a few pounds I also recommend a faceplate filter (I use the AdslNation one) - if you've already removed the ring-wire and tidied up your wiring etc. you won't necessarily see an improvement but it ensures you've always got the best set up you can have.
-
I hate to be a pessimist but i've just tried to install this firmware upgrade on a customers router but have been having big issues.
I'ts just one file am I right a .img file......becuase when i load it into the netgear browser, it goes away does its thing then comes back with
"cannot install firmware, contact administrator".
Help. Feel stupid. :-[
-
What router did you try to install it in?
-
A DG834G version 3 Netgear router.
I thought that was the one the firmware was for. I wouldn't have tried to install in any other, although I do have my blonde moments.
-
That's the right router then. Perhaps you got a corrupted download. It installed with no difficulty on my DG834Gv3.
-
But how can I have a corrupted download from the netgear site!!??
Perhaps I just did it wrong. I saved the zip file then extracted all then browsed from my netgear router, opened the file then clicked upload. I didn't think it was that hard and I cannot understand why it's not working.
Perhaps it's not a v3 at all. The customer may have got it wrong.
-
Perhaps it's not a v3 at all.
Have a look underneath - it will tell you the version.
-
Thanks for the update emgee.
I will be interested to see see what you think of the Speedtouch - I still swear by mine!
For the sake of a few pounds I also recommend a faceplate filter (I use the AdslNation one) - if you've already removed the ring-wire and tidied up your wiring etc. you won't necessarily see an improvement but it ensures you've always got the best set up you can have.
Received the Speedtouch today and have some questions regarding firmware, which I will post in a new thread.
The netgear has been fairly stable the last few days but I still feel it's holding me back. The earlier blip seemed to coincide with the cold snap. It seems my target SNR is 12db, but still manages to get down to zero at times during the evening. Also, interleaving is on. I was hoping the 585 would keep the noise margin more stable so that I could look into getting the target reduced and, so far, that seems to be the case.
I'm not sure the faceplate would be of use to me as I have just the master socket and no extensions. Could it still make a difference in this scenario?
-
But how can I have a corrupted download from the netgear site!!??
You can get a corrupted download from anywhere. Data can be lost in the download, or the receiving computer may have a glitch. I know it's fairly unlikely, but it can happen.
-
It doesn't surprise me at all. ::)
I couldnt' see the router so I couldn't make sure that the model was correct - what was read to me sounded like it was correct though. Frustrating when you can't see for yourself.
-
...
I'm not sure the faceplate would be of use to me as I have just the master socket and no extensions. Could it still make a difference in this scenario?
Yes the faceplate can make a huge difference. I don't have any extention sockets and my line has been stable for 6days where before I was lucky to get 2-3days.
Do try the faceplate is my opinion. http://www.adslnation.com/products/xte2005.php
-
new firmware has made a huge difference for me. in fact, its a difference of a 3500 profile and 4000 and thats with my target snr increased to 9
-
does this work on UK v3 DG834G ? just cos on the site it has seperate UK version...
Im on o2 ADSL2+ using o2 wireless box , I setup the Netgear and it synced a whole 1000k lower than the speedtouch, i wonder if this new firmware will be any better (if it works on UK - ADSL2+)
-
wouldnt bother, i lost sync shortly after last message.
-
How many times have you lost sync? and what's the line profile?
-
I heard that netgear routers in particular work much better on a certain type of profile. Would it be worth getting yours changed. Wish I could remember which profile it was that they worked best on.
me=chocolate+teapot=useful as
-
The Netgear DG834 series has been found by many to be pretty stable on a long line, where other routers and modems would fall over and resync when the SNR got too low. Is that what you're thinking?
-
An update: following the original posting relating to the release of the 4.01.37 firmware for the Netgear DG834v3 and DG834Gv3 in the spring of 2008.
The more recent v4.01.40 was released in the autumn of 2008. Either the .37 or .40 (I'm forget which now) or both contain important bugfixes and enhancements that resolve various router software bugs and omissions which adversely affected Vista with its new high-performance TCP/IP subsystem. Unfortunately this doesn't seem to have been written up in the release notes as fully as might be wished.
Anyway the latest release should certainly be considered a must.
Make sure to test using the Microsoft Router test tool "Internet Connectivity Evaluation Tool", found at
http://www.microsoft.com/windows/using/tools/igd/default.mspx
Not: best run on Vista for fullest range of tests, must be run as administrator, will need to set vista window scaling back to "normal" for a proper test as described in kitz' article below. Only run over wired connection, not wireless as this can cover up some faults.
Further reading - http://www.kitz.co.uk/adsl/vistaTCPtweaks.htm and its associated references.