Kitz Forum
Broadband Related => ISPs => Topic started by: kitz on April 09, 2016, 01:17:20 PM
-
Plusnet launched their new Community Forum (https://community.plus.net/t5/Forum/ct-p/Forum) on the 7th of April 2016.
The forums previously used to run on an old and now much outdated version of SMF1 software, but they have moved their database over to Lithium (http://www.lithium.com/products-solutions/online-communities/forums) forum software as used by many other corporate sites.
After launch, existing customers are advised to
After the new site is live you'll need to log on at https://community.plus.net with your current username, you'll then be prompted to reset your password. Once reset you'll be able to carry on posting as before.
Unfortunately this process does not seem to have gone well for all and there appears to be an issue with some customers not receiving the reset password email.
There appears to be a long delay in these emails being sent out, and by the time some of them do actually arrive, the token time has expired.
Customers are advised to check that they are using the correct email address and to check their spam folder in case it has gone in there first.
-
I'm one of those who can't get access to the new forums.
Ive tried several times to request a reset password, but the email never arrives.
I have checked my spam folder and doubled checked that I am using the right email address. ie the same email address to where I got notifications to up until the 7th.
I also tried setting up a new account last night with a different email address. That confirmation mail still hasn't turned up, so I can't even log in over there with a different name to advise that I'm having difficulties obtaining access.
-
I'm having the exact same problem here. I've tried registering a new account as well, but I still haven't received the confirmation email after over 20 minutes.
I wonder if there is either an automation failure, or some poor soul at Lithium working their way through mountains of requests manually?
-
I had the unable to login problem, and then successfully used the forgot password link to get a new password.
-
I got in eventually on the third email address I tried. All said they had sent something, but the first two didn't.
I really don't like the new forums, they are nothing like any others I use and are putting me off contributing as they are so clumsy to use (plus the bugs don't help).
-
I'm having the exact same problem here. I've tried registering a new account as well, but I still haven't received the confirmation email after over 20 minutes.
I wonder if there is either an automation failure, or some poor soul at Lithium working their way through mountains of requests manually?
I tried registering for a new account last night and still not received the confirmation mail.
It should be automated, so something seems to have gone wrong with Lithiums SMTP server [smtp2.Lithium.com] and the delay seems to be stacking up.
Since Lithium themselves appear to be handling the mail, rather than plusnet, I wonder if there's some sort of strange SMTP tarpitting going on here.
If so, then the more requests that are made, then the delays will gradually increase... until comes a point when mail comes to a standstill.
SMTP tarpits (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tarpit_%28networking%29#SMTP_tarpits) are supposed to stop outgoing spam, by gradually increasing delays.
-
I really don't like the new forums, they are nothing like any others I use and are putting me off contributing as they are so clumsy to use (plus the bugs don't help).
From what Ive seen, it looks horrible:
- I strongly dislike the use of what was the old brightspark logo flashing all over the place. It is most distracting.
- AV's on the summary thread looks dreadful, especially if the user has an animated gif. eg this (https://community.plus.net/t5/General-Chat/bd-p/GeneralChat) It is extremely hard to digest any of the actual useful information.{Img1}
- Far too much whitespace on the left hand side of posts by the user info. {Img2}
IMHO it looks unprofessional, more suited to a kids forum than a technical help forum due to the overuse of distracting images :(
As regards to the rest, I just cannot get in to experience first hand any of the other bugs.
-
One way once you get in to your old account using your new dummy account is to send a PM to your old account and see which email account the notification ends up in - then you can request the password reset to that account email address.
See discussion on TBB
http://forums.thinkbroadband.com/plusnet/f/4475313-plusnet-switches-over-to-shiny-new-community-forums.html?fpart=3&vc=1 (http://forums.thinkbroadband.com/plusnet/f/4475313-plusnet-switches-over-to-shiny-new-community-forums.html?fpart=3&vc=1)
The way I got in was be submerging the lithium servers with endless password reset requests to every single one of my email addresses and alias's and waiting to see which sole one got a reply: this was on the 7th morning.........so you can blame me!
-
Just reset my password, and the email came straight through.
-
I really don't like the new forums, they are nothing like any others I use and are putting me off contributing as they are so clumsy to use (plus the bugs don't help).
From what Ive seen, it looks horrible:
- I strongly dislike the use of what was the old brightspark logo flashing all over the place. It is most distracting.
- AV's on the summary thread looks dreadful, especially if the user has an animated gif. eg this (https://community.plus.net/t5/General-Chat/bd-p/GeneralChat) It is extremely hard to digest any of the actual useful information.{Img1}
- Far too much whitespace on the left hand side of posts by the user info. {Img2}
IMHO it looks unprofessional, more suited to a kids forum than a technical help forum due to the overuse of distracting images :(
As regards to the rest, I just cannot get in to experience first hand any of the other bugs.
sadly kitz its where we moving to :(
There is people with influence making large companies such as plusnet move to this sort of interface and also an over emphasis on making suitable for smartphone usage. I prefer the approach taken here, where is forum optimised for desktop, but also with tapatalk support to allow easy use on phones.
An issue which I raised on plusnet's forum they now seem to have adopted bad advice from so called security experts to very aggressively logout sessions on the forum, to mitigate things like session hijacking which can be mitigated trivially via other means.
Although its turned out that desktop users are been logged out less aggressively, so even plusnet staff I think are now unsure how lithium have configured the software.
-
Come back Usenet, all is forgiven.
-
It seems to be working at the moment. Like Ronski, my reset email came through immediately.
-
One way once you get in to your old account using your new dummy account is to send a PM to your old account and see which email account the notification ends up in - then you can request the password reset to that account email address.
I tried to set up a dummy account last night, but cant even log in with that as I don't have the confirmation mail yet to be able to post.
I should be using the correct email address, because I still have notifications saved in outlook which show which email account I used. That was the first thing I checked :(
-
It seems to be working at the moment. Like Ronski, my reset email came through immediately.
Just tried again. Not received anything as yet. :(
-
I just had a look at my email logs for emails sent from their forum (notifications of replies to posts).
Looking for reasons why some email providers may mark as spam, greylist etc.
The sender ip is listed in dnswl.org a whitelist used to add providers who mass mail.
2016-04-09 06:17:38 [88055] 46.19.168.11 whitelisted in list.dnswl.org
So anyone using dnswl should get these emails without a problem.
Reverse DNS checks out ok.
Helo is good, SPF passes.
There is no valid DKIM meaning providers like yahoo may down score the emails.
Not in any RBL's.
-
woooah
Just looking at the link posted by c6em to TBB and I note this (http://forums.thinkbroadband.com/plusnet/4475313-plusnet-switches-over-to-shiny-new-community-forums.html?fpart=3#Post4475666) where Roberto is also having difficulties.
I don't think it is to do with us both using Tsohost, as so many people here and clearly elsewhere (by the number setting up dummy accounts) are having the same problem.
I dont use TSO, but I do use Vidahost, both of which are part of Paragon Group.
-
I'm having the exact same problem here. I've tried registering a new account as well, but I still haven't received the confirmation email after over 20 minutes.
@Jaggies, who do you use for mail?
-
Ok so I just tried registering yet another account.. this time using an email address that doesn't go through my hosts.
The e-mail to that address came through straight away.
I logged in and sent a PM to my main account.
No notification. So it would appear that mail is failing somewhere between lithium and my hosts?
-
yep its not a issue affecting everyone, so something weird is happening either with network routing or causing some spam systems to mark these emails down.
You dont have access to email logs on your hosts?
Whatever it is, it not standing out to me.
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-5.0 required=5.0 tests=HTML_FONT_LOW_CONTRAST=0.001,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001,RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5,RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001,RCVD_NOT_IN_IPREPDNS=0.0001,SPF_PASS=-0.001
-
ok I can confirm the email was delivered over plain text, the lithium server is stuck in the stone age using no encryption.
So if anyone has configured their servers to only allow encrypted server to server transactions then this could be a reason for the lack of emails.
https://community.plus.net/t5/Community-Site-Feedback/Lithium-smtp-problems-emails-from-forum-not-been-delivered/m-p/1324623#M8117
-
I did some checks using my own mail logs and the only 2 issues I found were.
1 - No DKIM signatures
2 - Email sent over plain unencrypted smtp protocol.
I use DKIM - otherwise I'd be deluged in spam.
Why on earth arent they using DKIM signatures?
-
Ive just attempted some testing, by sending myself emails from my dummy account:-
I disabled DKIM and sent a message - no notification
I reduced spam setting to lowest - no notification
I disabled Spam Assassin - no notification.
Since it didnt appear to make any difference I turned Spam Assassin back on.
I forgot to make a note of my previous settings, but FYI these are my current rules based on the default 5 point setting.
pts rule name description
---- ---------------------- --------------------------------------------------
-0.0 NO_RELAYS Informational: message was not relayed via SMTP
1.0 MISSING_HEADERS Missing To: header
0.2 PP_MIME_FAKE_ASCII_TEXT BODY: MIME text/plain claims to be ASCII but
isn't
-0.5 BAYES_05 BODY: Bayes spam probability is 1 to 5%
[score: 0.0160]
1.6 MISSING_MID Missing Message-Id: header
1.8 MISSING_SUBJECT Missing Subject: header
-0.0 NO_RECEIVED Informational: message has no Received headers
1.4 MISSING_DATE Missing Date: header
0.0 NO_HEADERS_MESSAGE Message appears to be missing most RFC-822 headers
-
Does anyone who is having issues use any other Lithium forums such as BT and if so do they get emails from there?
-
I dont think DKIM is the cause, the lack of TLS might possibly be the issue, but I think very few sysadmins will be enforcing TLS on server to server transactions as too many providers still dont use it.
-
You dont have access to email logs on your hosts?
I didnt know where to look as I have managed service and they do all the techie stuff for me, so I never normally access anything on the server, unless its a simple config change of something in CPanel. I actually have root WHM, but I totally leave all that to my hosts and dont like poking around in case I break something.
Anyhow.. I just did a little bit of looking around at all the mail config settings and I found some sort of mail tracker, which views the mail logs.
I then went to my dummy PN account and sent myself some more messages.
As you can see.. incoming mail from lithium doesnt even seem to get as far as my server. Ive blanked out email addresses, but you should be able to get the idea and see that Im not rejecting anything from 46.19.168.11. I actually looked through the logs back much further than the sample below - there is nothing.
-
ok, ideally the logs have to be looked at by a sysadmin (what you looking at is just a snapshot of the data), but you done the best you can.
The issue is bizarre for sure, and I think the SSL idea was a bit of a long shot because I think its unlikely you enforcing TLS.
All i can say is the emails to me are not sitting delayed, ronski got his fast also, so it seems something on the lithium side is making them hold these emails for some networks.
-
Does anyone who is having issues use any other Lithium forums such as BT and if so do they get emails from there?
Good thinking jelv.
I bet you can guess what Im about to say.
I went to BT forums and changed my email address. I never got any confirmation mail.
So I tried changing it to my plusnet email address.. notification came through straight away.
-
Some mail servers do a callback to make sure sender is legit, the lithium smtp server doesnt have port 25 open. I think this is a more likely reason than the TLS problem.
.ssh # telnet smtp2.lithium.com 25
Trying 46.19.168.11...
telnet: connect to address 46.19.168.11: Connection refused
telnet: Unable to connect to remote host
-
Im not impressed with the forums anyhow - giving up for today.
I just accidentally found out a way to log into a dummy accounts and then post from it without ever getting the original welcome email.
It doesnt work with the old accounts though, just the dummy I created. Not sure how much of a security issue that could be, but it just seemed rather strange :-\
-
btw - I think I may have broken something on my own server whilst messing.
Switching off DKIM to test seems to have upset some settings and now I cant seem to verify my server as an authoritative domainserver.
This is why I dont mess and pay for them to sort it :D
kitz goes to raise a ticket. :/
-
The BT mail from Lithium has just arrived after a 5 hour delay
BST time should actually be: Sent at 19:23. Received at 00:20
Envelope-to: MONGEDTHIS.co.uk
Delivery-date: Sun, 10 Apr 2016 00:20:06 +0100
Received: from smtp2.lithium.com ([46.19.168.11]:52289)
by kitz.servers.eqx.misp.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 4.86_1)
(envelope-from <forum.moderation.team@community.bt.com>)
id 1ap2Ad-00030X-Nn
for MONGED.co.uk; Sun, 10 Apr 2016 00:20:06 +0100
Received: from ams1papp20.am.lithium.com (am-lb-VIP-VLAN90.am.lithium.com [10.50.90.6])
by smtp2.lithium.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7C6E13B0530
for <MONGED.co.uk>; Sat, 9 Apr 2016 20:23:03 +0200 (CEST)
X-DomainKeys: Sendmail DomainKeys Filter v1.0.2 smtp2.lithium.com 7C6E13B0530
Date: Sat, 9 Apr 2016 20:23:02 +0200 (CEST)
From: BTCare Community Forums <forum.moderation.team@community.bt.com>
To: MONGED.co.uk
Message-ID: <1633735470.4767.1460226183510.JavaMail.lithium@ams1papp20.am.lithium.com>
Subject: Email Address Verification
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
boundary="----=_Part_4766_1506288321.1460226183507"
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9
X-Spam-Score: -18
X-Spam-Bar: -
X-Ham-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "kitz.servers.eqx.misp.co.uk",
has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. The original
message has been attached to this so you can view it or label
similar future email. If you have any questions, see
root\@localhost for details.
Content preview: Hello kitz, We have received a request to change your email
address on BTCare Community Forums.
Content analysis details: (-1.9 points, 5.0 required)
pts rule name description
---- ---------------------- --------------------------------------------------
-0.0 RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2 RBL: Average reputation (+2)
[46.19.168.11 listed in wl.mailspike.net]
-1.9 BAYES_00 BODY: Bayes spam probability is 0 to 1%
[score: 0.0000]
0.0 HTML_MESSAGE BODY: HTML included in message
X-Spam-Flag: NO
-
in the ticket ask them to search logs for smtp2.lithium.com
I think its greylisting the culprit here.
-
I didnt give my ticket an urgent or high importance ranking, so Im not expecting any response until tomorrow.
Ive already added to the ticket showing headers of where it should come from, so hopefully they should be able to suss the details.
One of the 5 PM's I sent myself from kitz2 has just got a notification which has an 8 hr delay. Ive PM'd the full headers to Bob over on the community forum.
The other 4 notifications seem to have got lost, as are about a dozen missing reset passwords to get into my proper account. Ive just done another reset but nothing from that either.
-
Just got in with a password reset without problems (my mail goes to tesco.net then relayed to Google Apps). As you say the new forum is horrible, but that was always going to be the case as their aims were to change the appearance for it's own sake, and to move to Lithium for reasons of dogma rather than any other reason. I don't think anyone ever said the new forum was going to be better in any real way.
Academic for me since I'll be fully shot of Plusnet by the end of this week, unless they try to mess me around on billing - there have been reports of them closing peoples logins when they do that, so there's no way to dispute the bill except via the forum.
-
The problem really with plusnet (and many other isp's), is they I suspect had noone internally employed to manage the forum, hence the long standing issues that didnt get fixed, then a decision eventually got made to work on the forum, but via outsourcing, and lithium tends to be a go to place for outsourced forum management.
-
hence the long standing issues that didn't get fixed,
It was well overdue an update as it was still running SMF1. I've been on SMF2 for 5 years, and I delayed that a little because of time to transfer over and design a new scheme.
Believe me I can well understand that a lot of the corporates now want to outsource and leave the work to someone else. I think one of the things that shocks me most though is that both PN and BT are running lithium. One looks professional, the other with all the images... looks more like something someone knocked up using a WP template. Far too many images and whitespace :-X
-
@Jaggies, who do you use for mail?
My domain is hosted by Vision Internet http://visn.co.uk (http://visn.co.uk)
I eventually got an email on Sunday morning with the reset password link, but as I was out most of the day on Sunday I just get errors when trying to reset it. I have registered another account and got the activation email several hours later. It worked when I clicked the link just now.
Meantime, I've requested another password reset on my original account, and will see if that comes through any quicker (it took 3 days for the first one to arrive...)
-
Should update this. My problem has been sorted.
Chrys probably explain it better than me as I know nothing much about configuring mail servers, but it would appear the lithium server is configured in a way so that they are not doing themselves any favours when it comes to those hosts which use greylisting.
There are several checks that CPanel (used by a lot of hosting companies) does to check that the sending mail server is who they say they are and the lithium server does none of them.
I think in total there are about 4 pointers that the receiving server could think that lithium is an originator of spam.
Most specifically the lithium smtp server is dropping packets which 1) they should respond to to avoid greylisting 2) some servers deliberately wait a couple of seconds to avoid spam and the lithium server is timing out too quickly.
2016-04-11 10:02:15 SMTP connection from smtp2.lithium.com [46.19.168.11]:51745 lost
2016-04-11 10:04:22 SMTP connection from [46.19.168.11]:60148 (TCP/IP connection count = 1)
2016-04-11 10:04:34 SMTP connection from smtp2.lithium.com [46.19.168.11]:60148 lost
Although it has been fixed for TSO and Vidahost, there will be other hosting companies out there who use CPanel, so if you still have a problem it may be worth while mentioning how smtp2.lithium drops the connection if there is any delay.
-
Yeah based on what was reported on tBB, this is whats happened.
TSOhost (and all its sister companies) configure their email servers to have an artifical delay before accepting email, this is an antispam measure. It does not breach RFC.
Lithium on the other hand configure their mail servers to be impatient and if they cannot quickly do the email transaction they abort, and try again after a specified delay (which also seems configured very large). Lithium's configuration does breach RFC. I expect its a misguided configuration to lower load on their email servers.
I wasnt affected as I dont add the artificial delay to my email servers, although I have considered doing it multiple times in the past.