Kitz Forum

Broadband Related => Telephony Wiring + Equipment => Topic started by: aesmith on March 22, 2016, 12:51:39 PM

Title: Inbound SIP services
Post by: aesmith on March 22, 2016, 12:51:39 PM
Hi,

This doesn't seem quite the right place for this question, but nowhere else seemed to fit either.   Question for any of you who are using SIP as your main telephone service, for inbound calls.   What provider(s) do you use, and any feedback?   We've decided to ditch our landline number and go SIP, currently I'm signed up with SIPgate with a local number, but I'm starting to feel a little uncomfortable about what's effectively a free service.  There was a scare a couple of years ago when they announced the end of the basic service, then changed their minds.   I don't specially want to change our number in the first place, so don't want to go through the process then find we lose the number a year or so down the line.

Thanks,  Tony S
Title: Re: Inbound SIP services
Post by: Weaver on March 22, 2016, 02:17:23 PM
I use Andrews and Arnold's SIP service. AA's service can also redirect an incoming call to a completely different number, at times we have used this extremely handy feature to redirect to my wife's mobile phone.
Title: Re: Inbound SIP services
Post by: benji09 on March 22, 2016, 08:46:22 PM
  If I remember correctly, Sipgate were only pulling out of the free service at the time - not the business part of the business, So you could go to their business offering, if you wish to pay for it. Sipgate seems to have put in a lot of time and effort in revamping their web site for the free part of their service, so I would be surprised if they pulled out now. I hope they don't, as I  have been very happy with them over the years..............
Title: Re: Inbound SIP services
Post by: aesmith on March 23, 2016, 11:35:35 AM
Cheer.  As it happens Sipgate reversed their decision, so it's not clear what options would have been available, for example whether their numbers could have been ported out.   A&A looks good at first glance, however I note they don't support their SIP service if you use NAT.   My Gigaset phone works perfectly with SIPgate and I've tested with "discountvoip" and that seems to work as well, although they don't do inbound.   

Also looking at "localphone.com" which is another prepaid service.  I like the idea of pre-paid because that reduces toll fraud risk.
Title: Re: Inbound SIP services
Post by: splbound on April 01, 2016, 05:39:23 PM
I use sipgate and didlogic for inbound. Using a Gigaset N300IP with two dect handsets. Very happy with it all... well as long as my connection stays up.
Title: Re: Inbound SIP services
Post by: aesmith on April 03, 2016, 06:59:51 PM
Cheers.  I have the same rig.  I think I'm settled on using the Sipgate number for inbound, and have signed up with Discount VoIP who seem to have the lower call rates on the go, and can be set to present our Sipgate number as CLI.  Not that we make many calls, but I notice that some of the cheaper providers are not so cheap for calls to mobiles, maybe landlines are used almost as a loss leader.
Title: Re: Inbound SIP services
Post by: npr on April 05, 2016, 09:39:41 AM
Discount VoIP who seem to have the lower call rates

The following is a useful price comparison site for these betamax resellers.
http://progx.ch/home-voip-prixbetamax-3-4-2.html

Title: Re: Inbound SIP services
Post by: plexy on April 06, 2016, 10:07:48 AM
thats a really handy link thanks for that!

Personally for SIP I run a asterisk box, sipgate delivers me an inbound number and I route outbound via things like voipcheap. its not my main line so it runs on a shoestring budget of £0 per month as long as I dont call mobiles.
Title: Re: Inbound SIP services
Post by: npr on April 06, 2016, 01:35:34 PM
My solution is to use my BT land line for incoming calls and voip for cheaper outbound calls -- I have no need for a voip number.
To enable both land line and voip calls to be made and or received by the one phone (DECT base station) I use a Obi110 which routes both POTS and VOIP to and from the one phone.

It's very configurable, I can route special numbers over the BT line, eg 999, 1471, 0800xxxxxxxx numbers.
And even screen or block nuisance calls.
http://www.obitalk.com/forum/index.php?topic=10499.msg69255#msg69255
Title: Re: Inbound SIP services
Post by: ktz392837 on April 06, 2016, 10:27:49 PM
Obi110 look like a great device.  Can you dial a prefix to force to use landline? Can you also test numbers e.g. dial 999 and see if it is using landline or sip without it obviously dialing 999!?  Thanks
Title: Re: Inbound SIP services
Post by: aesmith on April 07, 2016, 10:11:51 AM
I need a SIP inbound number because we're going to convert the land line to DSL only.   Reading around it looks like Sipgate numbers can be ported out, so I'm now "publishing" that as our new number.   Discount VoIP lets you set your own CLI so I have that set to present the Sipgate number, I could equally have set it to present our landline number.   The Sipgate number is validated for 999 use, Discount VoIP isn't.

The Gigaset handset lets you do the same routing as described above, based on the number dialled.  It doesn't however allow an access code which selects the line but is not sent to the provider.
Title: Re: Inbound SIP services
Post by: npr on April 07, 2016, 10:42:45 AM
@ktz392837
Yes you can dial a prefix to force a call to use the land line or to use the second voip account.

I haven't tested the 999 routing over BT directly, but it's configured as part of a "outbound call route" rule with other numbers.
eg ,{(<#:>|0800xxx xxxx?S2|999|111|101|1471|17070):li},
0800, 1471, 17070 are routed over BT so I have no doubt all the above number go through BT.
Title: Re: Inbound SIP services
Post by: ktz392837 on April 07, 2016, 05:51:44 PM
Can you setup the device without doing anything on Obi website? If the Obi site is closed do you still have all the features of the device?

 Do you need extra software/hardware to get the nuisance blocking or does the Obi support playing the sound files?

Can you ban certain numbers eg premium and play a message when you dial banned numbers?

One review I found mentioned a large delay when trying to dial on landline do you have this issue.

Thanks it is great to get direct feedback from an actual user.
Title: Re: Inbound SIP services
Post by: npr on April 08, 2016, 10:07:36 AM
By default the device can be configure directly and/or through the obi website.
The obi website config can be disabled so the device is then only configured directly, which IMO is preferable.

The Obi supports playing a pre-recorded sound file but it's a bit of a pain recording the message and getting the sound level right. If you need this I can send you my "AA User Prompts backup file" which contains the recorded sound file  - as per the text in the previous link.

Yes you can block predefined outbound number eg all 09 or 07 numbers etc.
Not sure about it playing a message -- not something I've tested.

You can create your own list of blocked inbound numbers, you can either silently block them, or something I do, divert them to a free VoIP address which plays a silly message.

There's no delay sending (or hearing the dialling tones) but there is a 4 or 5 second delay before hearing the ring tone from the far end. I had assumed that delay to be my VoIP provider routing the call.

If you do get one, be sure to install the UK config.
https://www.ukvoipforums.com/viewtopic.php?f=25&t=368

Title: Re: Inbound SIP services
Post by: ktz392837 on April 08, 2016, 02:07:41 PM
Thanks does it have a cable to connect the obi line out to the BT socket and a cable to connect handset to obi?  I guess I need rj square to bt rectangle cables?

Very tempted to give this a try will take a year or so get back the price of the box but in the meantime the nuisance blocker will be invaluable.

To disable the obi config is it obvious?  Can I unbox, connect obi to router, give it static IP address, view IP address in browser, import UK config, config as required (eg block premium numbers) and be ready to go?
Title: Re: Inbound SIP services
Post by: npr on April 08, 2016, 04:26:02 PM
Sorry, I can't remember what cables came with it. I've got a collection of phone / modem cables so it wasn't a problem for me.

It's taken me considerably less than a year to recoup the cost of the box:

I was paying £6 /month for any time calls + around £5 / month on calls to mobiles, say £11 per month.
In 8 months that's £88

Now paying £9.50 once every 4 months which gives free land line calls for 120 days and calls to mobiles at 1p / minute which comes out of the £9.50.
http://www.freevoipdeal.com/calling_rates/
Note: these Betamax prices are subject to change -- need to keep track of which reseller is cheapest when it's time to renew.
In 8 months that's £19.   :cool:

Cost of box <£40

The basic settings are obvious, but the VoIP settings can be a steep learning curve.
The two forums I've linked too are very helpful however.
Title: Re: Inbound SIP services
Post by: dragon2611 on April 11, 2016, 11:06:49 AM
Cheer.  As it happens Sipgate reversed their decision, so it's not clear what options would have been available, for example whether their numbers could have been ported out.   A&A looks good at first glance, however I note they don't support their SIP service if you use NAT.   My Gigaset phone works perfectly with SIPgate and I've tested with "discountvoip" and that seems to work as well, although they don't do inbound.   

Also looking at "localphone.com" which is another prepaid service.  I like the idea of pre-paid because that reduces toll fraud risk.

Pretty sure I've used AAISP from behind NAT before, I suspect they'll try to help you regardless but if it turns out it's not working due to your broken NAT device then they're not going to want to waste hours of time trying to fix/work around it.  (Some NAT routers really badly mangle SIP, they try to be clever by re-writing addresses but some implementations of the SIP ALG leave a lot to be desired.)
Title: Re: Inbound SIP services
Post by: Weaver on April 11, 2016, 08:02:20 PM
If you use A&A then one way out of NAT misery is to go IPv6. You will then need the right VoIP kit, and I notice that A&A recommend Snom VoIP hardware which speaks IPv6.

I use A & A's VoIP service with a Siemens N300 VoIP box over IPv4 but with no NAT at all because I have an adequate sized block of 'real' global IPv4 addresses. That's from the good days before we started to really run out.

Another note. If you use a Firebrick router, as I do, this can handle the IPv4 NAT case for you because it acts as a back-to-back VoIP gateway.
Title: Re: Inbound SIP services
Post by: aesmith on April 12, 2016, 08:29:51 PM
  ....  one way out of NAT misery is to go IPv6. ...

I can't help thinking that this "NAT is evil" is a bit of a hobby horse from A&A, not strictly borne out by the presumably millions of users currently accessing the Internet via some form of NAT.   

In fact the other week I was working on a SIP issue, calls to Holland or Germany the caller heard first a male voice saying the call can't be completed (sent as "proceeding" early media by the way), then a female voice saying something similar, sent as if the call was connected.   The ITSP uses the Broadsoft platform, and the Broadsoft guy was not happy that the customer's firewall was re-writing the via and connection headers, he wanted this "ALG" as he called it disabled.  However disabling that function broke everything - no early media for any calls which means not just no call proceeding messages but no ringback either.   Moving on we put the customer's gateway on a DMZ to remove all NAT from the picture, and it behaves exactly as it did via NAT and the much hated "ALG" - perfect for all calls except outgoing to Holland or Germany. 

By the way, in an IPv6 only world, is it expected that everyone will have PI address space?   What I mean is that its simple for me at home to address my stuff using the A&A provided addressing and avoid NAT, but what about an enterprise network with multiple sites and many different Internet connections from different ISPs?   (Off topic a bit, but the more I look at IPv6 the more I realise how different it is from what I'm used to) 
Title: Re: Inbound SIP services
Post by: Weaver on April 12, 2016, 08:46:03 PM
I'm sure that a lot of organisations will want to get themselves organised with some PI space.
Title: Re: Inbound SIP services
Post by: ktz392837 on April 22, 2016, 09:15:24 AM
Quote from: npr
Now paying £9.50 once every 4 months which gives free land line calls for 120 days and calls to mobiles at 1p / minute which comes out of the £9.50.
http://www.freevoipdeal.com/calling_rates
  Could you share/export your working config for the obi110 and freevoipdeal (excluding passwords!)? Thanks

Title: Re: Inbound SIP services
Post by: npr on April 22, 2016, 11:05:33 AM
Started by loading the UK-OBi110-Profile-21JUL15 from here:

https://www.ukvoipforums.com/viewtopic.php?f=25&t=368

IIRC all settings are default except the following.

Quote
System management > Auto provisioning : disable all

service providers > itsp profile A > general:

Digitmap: (116000|116111|116123|0[15]xxxxxxxxx?|0[27]x xxxx xxxx|0800xxx xxxx?|0808xxx xxxx|08001111|08[47]x xxx xxxx|0845464x|03xx xxx xxxx|!118x.|100|155|195|!09xx xxx xxxx|00xxx.|xx.|+xx.|(Mipd)|[^*#]@@.)

Name : freevoipdeal

url : www.freevoipdeal.com

service providers > itsp profile A > sip:

Proxyserver: sip:freevoipdeal.com

proxyserverport: 5060

proxyservertransport: UDP

registrarserver:  sip:freevoipdeal.com

registraserverport:  5060

Voice service > SP1 service:

Enable : ticked

Authusername: freevoipdeal username

Authpassword: freevoipdeal password

Physical Interfaces > phone port :


Digitmap: ([1-9]x?*(Mpli)|[1-9]S9|[1-9][0-9]S9|999|111|101|1471|17070|**0|***|#|**1(Msp1)|**2(Msp2)|**8(Mli)|**9(Mpp)|(Mpli))

Outboundcallroute: {([1-9]x?*(Mpli)):pp},{(<#:>|999|111|101|1471|17070):li},{**0:aa},{***:aa2},{(<**1:>(Msp1)):sp1},{(<**2:>(Msp2)):sp2},{(<**8:>(Mli)):li},{(<**9:>(Mpp)):pp},{(Mpli):pli}

PrimaryLine: SP1 Service

You may need to mess around with the "channelTXgain and channelRXgain" settings to get the voice sound levels right. Mine are both set to -1. Adjust these gain settings first before changing the same settings in the following LinePort section, This is because the settings here changes the volume for both voip and BT voice, the following only changes the volume for BT calls. Only make small changes or you will get distortion and/or echo.

Physical Interfaces > Line Port:

Digitmap: (999|112|101|111|116000|116111|116123|1471|17070|1571|0[1-9]xxxxxxxxxS0|0[15]xxxxxxxxx?|0[27]x xxxx xxxx|0800xxx xxxx?|0808xxx xxxx|08001111|08[47]x xxx xxxx|0845464x|03xx xxx xxxx|118xxx|100|155|195|09xx xxx xxxx|[2-8]xxxx.|9[0-8]xxx.|99[^9]xx.|00xxx.|xx.)

Again, you may need to mess around with the "channelTXgain and channelRXgain" settings here. Mine are still at the default 0 and 5.

Good luck, please let us know how you get on.




Title: Re: Inbound SIP services
Post by: ktz392837 on April 22, 2016, 01:24:36 PM
Great thanks that helps.  I am currently crafting my rules at the moment.  Just need to get in my head why there appears to be a lot of duplication of virtually the same codes.

Does the !ban option (eg your premium 09x rule) play an appropriate message? 

Do you know why 141 (withhold number) is not in any of the example rules?

How does dialing work do all calls need 0044 prefixing?  Does the VoIP provider sort out adding STD for local calls?

I want to ban international calls will a (!00) be enough?

Thanks
Title: Re: Inbound SIP services
Post by: npr on April 22, 2016, 03:51:04 PM
No, the !ban doesn't play a message.

I have no experience of using 141.

Don't need to prefix the dial number with 0044 provided your IP address is registered to the UK.

At one time I had on a plusnet IP address register to the US, that caused problems so I moved to a static UK IP address which fixed the problem. Since moved internet provider to BT, dynamic IP, but and have no repeats of this problem.

You need to dial the STD code. Although you could create a digitmap to automatically add your local STD code to local numbers.

I assume you've seen the link I posted for screening withheld numbers.

To screen withheld and international calls you can change that digitmap to: {(?|00xx.):AA},{ph}

? matches number withheld, 00xx. matches international.

Alternatively the following will screen ? and silently block 00xx.

{(?):AA},{(00xx.):},{ph}

HH
Title: Re: Inbound SIP services
Post by: ktz392837 on April 24, 2016, 09:25:22 AM
Gradually building up my config and now trying to get AA setup.

Do you know why the digit code includes both 0 and 1?

What currency do you pay in with freevoipdeal.com when you topup? Do they add a 30% surcharge?

Thanks for help.
Title: Re: Inbound SIP services
Post by: npr on April 24, 2016, 12:28:38 PM
For the screening config, you would expect it to need a digitmap of 1. It actually need 0 not 1, don't know why haven't bothered to find out why, just left it as 1|0 -- don't see it as a issue.

It's billed in Euros: 10 + admin charge + VAT = 12.5 Euros

Last time I paid that worked out at £9.50.

Don't forget after the 120 days of free landline calls you don't need to immediately topup, you start using any credit remaining at approx 0.01 Euro per minute.

Edit:
1 Euro corrected to 0.01Euro.  :-[
Title: Re: Inbound SIP services
Post by: ktz392837 on April 26, 2016, 10:09:54 AM
AA is now working but trying to satisfy myself that it is secure.  After AA if you ***0 and other various numbers can get a response but nothing seems to allow any actual calls.  I have also set the goodbye message to user2 so it does not announce what device is being used just in case.

Going to get sip working next.  Do I need to punch holes in my firewall/nat?  Will the stun server sort out this without any changes to my setup?

Thanks
Title: Re: Inbound SIP services
Post by: npr on April 26, 2016, 11:50:02 AM
I suggest you ask about security in the obi forum thread in my link, I'd be very interested to see any replies to that question.  ;)

As I see it, the AA has a digitmap of (0|1) so shouldn't allow any numbers being dialled other than a single 0 or 1, can't see anyone doing much with that. Don't forget there's only 8 seconds before it either disconnects or rings the phone.

Also assigning the Obitalk service as the primary line makes me more confidence of the security aspect.

All I did was disable the routers SIP ALG, didn't bother with the STUN server, didn't need any ports forwarding.

I have enable QoS in the router for the VoIP service but how that's done is specific to your router.


Title: Re: Inbound SIP services
Post by: aesmith on April 26, 2016, 04:01:40 PM
Going to get sip working next.  Do I need to punch holes in my firewall/nat?  Will the stun server sort out this without any changes to my setup?

STUN is a "nice to have" as it means that the SIP messages will go out fully populated with your actual external addresses.  However most service providers who support end devices like this will be wise to NAT and will look at the address from which your device actually registered and use that in preference to what's in the headers.

Likewise typical end user devices also have a few tricks up their sleeve.  For example making sure that they send outbound RTP at any time where inbound is expected, so the inbound can make it through the firewall as if it was a reply to your outbound packets.   Note that this is not a NAT specific issue.
Title: Re: Inbound SIP services
Post by: ktz392837 on May 28, 2016, 12:47:18 AM
As I see it, the AA has a digitmap of (0|1) so shouldn't allow any numbers being dialled other than a single 0 or 1, can't see anyone doing much with that. Don't forget there's only 8 seconds before it either disconnects or rings the phone.

Also assigning the Obitalk service as the primary line makes me more confidence of the security aspect.

I have everything working and it is great apart from one thing if I call from a withheld number the aa message is played but if you do nothing after a period of time it rings the phone instead of disconnecting. Is there a setting I could of have missed?  Thanks
Title: Re: Inbound SIP services
Post by: npr on May 29, 2016, 03:57:54 PM
Not sure what's wrong there, here about 12 seconds after the custom aa message is played the "bye" message is then played and it disconnects.

Do you have a tick in the "bye" prompt?

If you're still having problems you could send me your config file, after removing passwords etc, and I'll compare it to mine.
Title: Re: Inbound SIP services
Post by: ktz392837 on May 29, 2016, 07:08:07 PM
Not sure what's wrong there, here about 12 seconds after the custom aa message is played the "bye" message is then played and it disconnects.

Do you have a tick in the "bye" prompt?

If you're still having problems you could send me your config file, after removing passwords etc, and I'll compare it to mine.
My NumberOnNoInput is set to 0 is that the same as yours?  Thanks
Title: Re: Inbound SIP services
Post by: npr on May 29, 2016, 07:17:02 PM
No, it's left empty.
See the screen capture in the other forum post.
Title: Re: Inbound SIP services
Post by: ktz392837 on June 29, 2016, 11:21:37 PM
Do you have any issues blocking numbers where the peer number in the call log includes a hyphen -? I have a number in a digit map but i do not believe if it has a hyphen it matches the rule to send to AA? E.g. 01234123456 matches but 01234-123456 doesnt!
Title: Re: Inbound SIP services
Post by: npr on June 30, 2016, 12:27:37 PM
I've never come across a hyphen in a dialled phone number so doubt it needs to be matched in the digitmap.
Have you looked at Obi's Digitmap tutorial, that may answer you question.

http://www.obihai.com/docs/OBi-DigitMapCallRoute-Tutorial-v1-1.pdf
Title: Re: Inbound SIP services
Post by: ktz392837 on July 15, 2016, 12:49:59 PM
Having issues with mobile calls not connecting yesterday and early this morning hoping hen back tonight it is working again.  Thinking I may need a backup account just in case.
Title: Re: Inbound SIP services
Post by: ktz392837 on July 15, 2016, 10:04:32 PM
No calls at all working now - incoming ptsn still fine.  Checked still well in credit it is failing to connect to the sip server - have you the same problem?  Is there a status page? Perhaps need to consider a backup not reselling same service any suggestions?
Title: Re: Inbound SIP services
Post by: npr on July 16, 2016, 09:23:33 AM
The two Betamax resellers I'm using are working ok.

On the Obi's home page, status > system status go down to SP1 Service status (or SP2 whichever your using).
Does it show "Registered (server=........................)" ?
If it's not shown as "registered" then you're not connected to or not logged in to your SIP service provider.



Title: Re: Inbound SIP services
Post by: ktz392837 on July 16, 2016, 11:12:09 PM
Yes it says registered now.  Landline numbers are back fine but mobile numbers are taking 60s to start ringing.  Nothing has changed on the obi apart from me switching everything off and on again.
Title: Re: Inbound SIP services
Post by: aesmith on July 18, 2016, 07:33:51 PM
Can you Wireshark it to see what's happening?  SIP decodes are very readable.
Title: Re: Inbound SIP services
Post by: ktz392837 on July 18, 2016, 09:25:46 PM
Next time I will give wireshark a try.  Went back to normal late Sunday.  I tried searching and a few what looked liked beta providers posted updates saying a limited number of users were experiencing problems so hopefully my problems were related.
Title: Re: Inbound SIP services
Post by: ktz392837 on May 19, 2017, 01:54:52 PM
http://www.freevoipdeal.com/calling_rates/
Note: these Betamax prices are subject to change -- need to keep track of which reseller is cheapest when it's time to renew.
Just wondering if anyone using this is having problems I am getting a recorded message after it rings and tries to connect and the log on the obi says server error or temp unavailable.  Obi reports registered to server etc.

It seems to be a problem their end but can't find any status messages saying there is a problem?

Does anyone know of a status page from someone that resells the same service Betamax that may give some I formation?

It has been working great for months and months apart from a couple of minor hicupps but it is a day or so without outgoing land and mobile calls is annoying without further information.