Kitz Forum

Broadband Related => ISPs => Topic started by: soms on October 09, 2006, 10:54:06 PM

Title: Migrating ADSL
Post by: soms on October 09, 2006, 10:54:06 PM
Lo all,

This is another migration tale! Planning to switch ISPs so will see how smooth it all goes!
Paying parent e-mailed existing ISP over weekend asking for MAC code so will see how long it takes for one to come back.
Title: Re: Migrating ADSL
Post by: kitz on October 09, 2006, 11:12:25 PM
where u off to soms?
Title: Re: Migrating ADSL
Post by: soms on October 10, 2006, 12:00:29 AM
Hopefully BT Total Broadband. I hope that the SNR margin will hold out for 2 meg ADSL max as predicted by the ADSL checker. I am willing to give it a go anyway.

Interestingly our drop cable and those of two neighbours come from the same pole mounted DP, yet their numbers get predictions of max speeds of 1mbps and 1.5mbps on ADSL max respectively. This is odd, as people who appear to be nearer the exchange on the ground are getting predictions of 0.5mbps or 1mbps yet one number round the corner from here could get upto 2.5bmps. Anyway, this tells me that perhaps 2mbps is being optimistic, especially so since interleaving will no doubt be applied. I have to say though for the most part the DSL service has been stable, its just the low/varying SNR that I worry might lead BRAS to fall short of the 2meg.
Title: Re: Migrating ADSL
Post by: soms on October 10, 2006, 07:46:19 AM
BT were out at the weekend replacing overhead cable elsewhere in the village and whilst this doesn't actually connect our line to the DPs etc I have noticed a minor improvement in the noise margin.

Seem to have gained about 1dB most of the time with some higher figures such as 15dB/15dB holding out until past 9pm at night. It was a bit odd because immediately after the work the SNRM was down to 10dB, but thankfully after a resync that hasn't been the case again.
Title: Re: Migrating ADSL
Post by: kitz on October 10, 2006, 12:38:11 PM
Fingers crossed for you that your SNR holds steady and you manage to get the higher speeds.
Yep with MAX the bRAS can be a PITA sometimes..  I still think they should round up rather than down.
Title: Re: Migrating ADSL
Post by: soms on November 08, 2006, 05:40:34 PM
No joy yet - the ISP is going down the pan!  :-X

Calls don't get answered or get through, a letter i sent came back un-delivered and the company has moved out of their premises. The suppliers have even cut people off.

I don't really know what else I can do? I cant reach anyone to terminate the service and as of yet we haven't been cut off - what to do? any ideas guys?
Title: Re: Migrating ADSL
Post by: kitz on November 08, 2006, 10:19:09 PM
Who are you with soms.
Ive just done a lookup on your IP addy and it says tiscali

Youre meant to get a MAC key within 5 working days
http://www.ofcom.org.uk/advice/codes/bbm_cop/

Its not looking good from what youve said :(

Title: Re: Migrating ADSL
Post by: soms on November 08, 2006, 11:09:44 PM
Well we joined up with Central Point whose residential ADSL services were taken over in 2005 by Fast24.

It seems that in the last week or two they seem to be faultering and look like they are going to fold.

Indeed traceroutes and things show that we go through tiscali, which no doubt is one of their broadband wholesale providers. It seems other providers have already cut customers off.

The news I read suggested they were struggling financially and they are now unreachable. Indeed their phones either aren't answered or cut you off, the website has vanished and they have apparently moved out of their building.

Really I want shot of this as soon as pos so I can sign up with BT. The question is, if no one can be reached, how can I escape them? If we eventually get cut off, are we free to order a new service immediately? Can Ofcom provide any advice or support in the matter?

I requested the MAC code about three weeks ago, and I chased them continuously since. A couple of times someone answered the phone and they said they were having problems with their wholesaler.

Since then I can't reach them at all on any number. I don't care to migrate now, I just want to jump ship quickly!
Title: Re: Migrating ADSL
Post by: kitz on November 08, 2006, 11:36:23 PM
hmmmm  - Whatever you do dont disconnect your router to be on the safe side.

Just seen this on el-reg
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2006/10/31/fast24_uksolutions/
and this
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2006/11/06/fast24_follow_up/

So its looking very bleak Im afraid :/

Since FAST24 are resellers, it looks like they may possibly selling different services from different ISPs.
From what I can gather they mostly sell from Netservices who have their own centrals.
The fact that youre routed through tiscali could possibly be why youre still up and running whilst others arent.

Moving without a MAC isnt easy and cant take weeks of downtime.

Even if you get disconnected their marker will likely still be on your phone line so youre not going to be able to sign up with another ISP either.
Theres some info here about getting the tag removed from your line which may help
http://www.ofcom.org.uk/complain/internet/tagmarker/?itemid=344112

Also look at the bottom here
http://www.ezeedsl.co.uk/



I'll have a scout round later and see if I can find any more news or info anywhere thats more up to date. 


You may be interested in this too if you have your soms domain with them
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2006/11/08/fast24_domain_recovery_advice/
Title: Re: Migrating ADSL
Post by: soms on November 09, 2006, 05:07:06 PM
Thanks very much for all the info kitz  :) It will be very handy as this problem develops!

Thankfully we don't hold any other services with them! The domain is safe!

Cheers again, I will have to see what happens and maybe if possible, try and get "de-tagged" before the service is actually terminated.
Title: Re: Migrating ADSL
Post by: soms on November 09, 2006, 05:12:25 PM
Oh hit, the end is near - next Friday to be precise!

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2006/11/09/fast24_cutoff/ (http://www.theregister.co.uk/2006/11/09/fast24_cutoff/)
Title: Re: Migrating ADSL
Post by: kitz on November 09, 2006, 07:44:45 PM
pooh :/

>>> EzeeDSL, a brand of Leeds-based business ISP 186K. Tiscali and NetServices have appointed 186K to put up a "walled garden" for Fast24 users when they try to connect, which will offer the chance to enter into a 12 month contract with the new provider.

How damn annoying that you applied for your MAC over a month ago - not sure if Id want to enter in a new 12 month contract with ezeedsl186k

here (http://www.ezeedsl.co.uk/news.shtml)


08/11/06
After the failure of Fast24 and their service providers to resolve the position for their customers, ezeeDSL has been chosen to provide a simple route to allow customers to recontract to a new service provider for a competitive, reliable solution with a secure and dynamic company. Fast24 customers will be given the ability to sign up with no migration or connection fee and to be back on line within a few minutes of sign-up.


186k also took over the e7even accounts when they went under
http://www.186k.co.uk/company/e7evenpressrelease.html

I suppose youve got to think now if you want to go over to 186k with their 12 month tie in.. or try get the tag removed from your line and go for a cease and reprovide. :/


Title: Re: Migrating ADSL
Post by: soms on November 09, 2006, 07:53:39 PM
Definitely would rather avoid joining that ezeeDSL. I wonder what happens on 17th November? Will I have to contact anyone to get a broadband cease arranged or will it happen automatically?

Would I waste my time contacting Tiscali or go to BT wholesale?

This really is carp - I want to reorder a service as quickly as possible and get a service of my own choosing.
Title: Re: Migrating ADSL
Post by: kitz on November 09, 2006, 10:11:48 PM
This is the bit thats the bummer

Quote
Tiscali and NetServices won't be dishing out MACs to those who don't sign up for EzeeDSL.
They say it is a breach of their customers' - Fast24 - confidentiality.


It may well be a breach of Fast 24s confidentiality :rolls eyes:...  but its the end users telephone line and IMHO they should be entitled to go where they choose.

It may be worthwhile contacting OFCOM

Have a read of this - section 1.14 and below
http://www.ofcom.org.uk/consult/condocs/migration/summary/
Title: Re: Migrating ADSL
Post by: soms on November 10, 2006, 04:58:43 PM
I spent some time on the phone today trying to see what could be done and this is what happened:

First i called BT Wholesale, who looked up the tags on the line and said I would have to get in touch with Tiscali.

So I looked up the Broadband cancellation number and gave them a call. I reached an overseas type person who said because I was a Fast24 customer I would have to contact some Koo Corporation which was overseeing customer contact or something since the company's demise. He gave me a phone number which I rang and which was effectively dead.

I did a quick google of this Koo Corp and found it was linked to Central Point. So I phoned central point and got through to someone who didnt really know what I was talking about. She said someone who call  me back but no one did.

So later on I tried BT Wholesale again, who said the same thing but were able to tell me a bit about how the cease process works and also gave me our network ID (not entirely sure what this is) but again said tiscali should provide them with the cease order.

So I called tiscali again and said can you cease my service? The said they couldn't find any record of me and even with a network ID they would not do a cease order. They told me to contact BTw, who could assist in these matters.
I made it clear BTw couldn't do it and that another customer service operative had given me a useless number.
Basically they wouldn't do anything and said call ofcom.

So i called ofcom for some advice and explained what had passed. They said there wasn't anything else I could really do to get an early cease and with regards to Fast24, confirmed that when the cut off date comes, without any action on our part, we should have the tags removed from the line.

On this basis I will probs ring BTw the following monday and ask if the tags have been removed. If they have, I can order my new service!
Title: Re: Migrating ADSL
Post by: kitz on November 10, 2006, 06:09:04 PM
Thanks for sharing the info with us soms,
- god what a bleeding performance.      :no:

Sorry I cant offer you any advice, but you do have my deepest sympathies.  :(



Title: Re: Migrating ADSL
Post by: mr_chris on November 11, 2006, 11:58:53 AM
What a nightmare :(

Nice to see OFCOM being as useful as a chocolate teapot, as usual :|
Title: Re: Migrating ADSL
Post by: soms on November 21, 2006, 07:01:27 PM
Brief update:

The service termination date has passed (17th) and our internet access has been revoked for a few days.

However after continuous checks with Btw, no ADSL cease order has been placed, and Tiscali refuse to do it.

Suffice to say I didn't feel very chuffed after waiting almost 10min in a queue listening to dodgy music, to  then get through to someone I could hardly understand and have them tell me the "tiscali are the middle man, contact your ISP" story.

I've reported what is going on to Ofcom and will just wait and see what happens (with regards to an automatic? cease that is).

In the mean time we are using dial-up just because they want to be difficult about it.  :no:
Title: Re: Migrating ADSL
Post by: kitz on November 22, 2006, 07:48:09 AM
Soms...

You may want to make a note of this phone no which may come in handy.

Tag/Marker/ Incompatiable product /ISP already on line
http://www.ofcom.org.uk/complain/internet/tagmarker/?itemid=344112


Tel: 0800 169 0934
Monday ? Friday 8am ? 6pm
Saturday ? 8am ? 12pm
Title: Re: Migrating ADSL
Post by: soms on December 03, 2006, 11:16:34 AM
Lo all, I was just on the Samknows broadband checker just to see what services were about etc and it said the following:

"Congratulations, you are in a broadband enabled area. However there is already an order pending against your line."

Would I be jumping the gun to hope this was the cease order we have been waiting weeks for?

I doubt the comment refers to the existing service given the nature of comment and the apparent intelligence of the Samknows checker.

I will have to ring BTw first thing tomorrow and ask if there are any pending orders. Hopefully (fingers crossed!) there will be a cease order and they could hopefully give me a date.

It would be nice to know if you think I am right about my interpretation of the comment first though!
Title: Re: Migrating ADSL
Post by: kitz on December 03, 2006, 01:08:28 PM
Soms does the BT database say anything about your line about any orders pending

http://www.kitz.co.uk/adsl/order.htm
Title: Re: Migrating ADSL
Post by: soms on December 03, 2006, 01:58:53 PM
Hi kitz, we're not actually registered on there yet so I will try aand get on there and see what it says.

Cheers.

(p.s. had never seen that page before!  ;))
Title: Re: Migrating ADSL
Post by: soms on December 03, 2006, 02:14:18 PM
Yay!

Cease due 6th December  ;D

(Thanks kitz for the link, up and running on bt.com in minutes!)
Title: Re: Migrating ADSL
Post by: kitz on December 03, 2006, 03:46:54 PM
Great stuff

Been wondering how you were getting on..  pressumably you have your new ISP lined up and ready?
Title: Re: Migrating ADSL
Post by: soms on December 03, 2006, 07:38:29 PM
Quote
Been wondering how you were getting on..

Indeed I made the first enquiry about migrating around mid October and finally have a cease date.

The lesson here ladies and gents is to be wary about who you join and how they work.

Quote
pressumably you have your new ISP lined up and ready?

Going to play it safe and go with BT Total BB. That way we're also set up to give BT Vision a go when it goes live.

(And no we don't have/nor want sky and we can't get cable)
Title: Re: Migrating ADSL
Post by: soms on December 07, 2006, 11:33:43 PM
Phoned BTw yesterday who said cease would be completed by Friday 8th (re-jumper at the exchange set for 8th) however got home today and the ADSL light on the router was out, logged in, ADSL was down.

Got onto the dial-up and finally got onto BT broadband pages and put in an order for new service!

I choose Monday 18th as the date for activation as your equipment e.g. router and any accessories etc arrives the same date and requires a signature, so went for that date as someone should be about.

So within an hour of getting home an order was in and all looks good - "just the job" as we like to say!  ;D

Title: Re: Migrating ADSL
Post by: roseway on December 08, 2006, 06:50:45 AM
Crossing my fingers for you. (https://forum.kitz.co.uk/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.emotionless.co.uk%2Femotes%2Fb%2Fthumbsup.gif&hash=8058c58a0badedd55827be9ddc72d64c)

Eric
Title: Re: Migrating ADSL
Post by: kitz on December 12, 2006, 12:16:40 AM
Thanks for the update.

Hope it all goes ok for you :)
Title: Re: Migrating ADSL
Post by: soms on December 16, 2006, 02:28:22 PM
Home Hub and accessories arrived today ahead of schedule, plugged it in and the ADSL is all up and running :)

Synced up straight away and is giving 544/448 at the moment, which is quite fast enough after being on dial-up for weeks. Hopefully the speed might increase, but I haven't lookup up the connection stats yet since i'm working out how to get around the browser interface.

Not the smoothest change of service but at least BT delivered early and all is working :D
Title: Re: Migrating ADSL
Post by: soms on December 16, 2006, 04:35:30 PM
After unplugging/replugging into a different socket seem t have resynced at 1.5Mbps.

By the looks of the stats (below) I think this is as good as it gets and I except it might not stay here for long.

Bandwidth (Up/Down) [kbps/kbps]: 448 / 1,504
 
Data Transferred (Sent/Received) [MB/MB]: 3.24 / 40.24
 
Output Power (Up/Down) [dBm]: 11.5 / 16.0
 
Line Attenuation (Up/Down) [dB]: 31.5 / 63.5
 
SN Margin (Up/Down) [dB]: 9.0 / 6.0

I am well informed about the 9dB normal target margin and the importance on the SNR Margin with Max but what does "Output power" mean? This is not a figure I ever had a value on when on the 512K/IP Stream 500 service?

Perhaps if someone can tell me what output power is I could answer my own question :)
Title: Re: Migrating ADSL
Post by: kitz on December 17, 2006, 10:58:20 PM
hey....  at last  :thumbs:

>> Output power" mean?

All I know off the top of my head is that its something to do with how hard your router (up) and the dslam (down) is working to transmit the signal.

Title: Re: Migrating ADSL
Post by: kitz on December 17, 2006, 11:01:36 PM
ummm  after a google

http://www.commsdesign.com/design_corner/showArticle.jhtml?articleID=16500513

or simply

These relate to the output power from the transmitters at your modem and the exchange.

The dBm notation means decibels relative to one milliwatt (the "m" in the figure) so in the above case the powers are 10 milliwatts and approx 18 milliwatts (13 dBm would be 20 milliwatts).
http://usertools.plus.net/tutorials/id/12