Kitz Forum

Broadband Related => ISPs => Topic started by: les-70 on January 21, 2016, 05:53:39 PM

Title: Current views on a move to Plusnet
Post by: les-70 on January 21, 2016, 05:53:39 PM
 I was wondering on a move to Plusnet and a year ago I would have thought this safe enough.  However I have noticed various concerns in recent months of things not being what they were.  I wondered if Plusnet folk to could give an update on whether or not Plusnet is back to an acceptable state? 

 I am aiming to change from TalkTalk Business FTTC to another FTTC but not business. My reasons for this are wishing to be on a "fast" rather than "stable" FTTC profile and increasing concerns over evening congestion.  I had similar congestion about 6 month ago and after a month or so it was fixed. Now 6 months later it is back but in a different flavour.  Previously the symptoms were long pings and no packet loss with slow speeds but this time the pings are totally stable but packet loss comes with the low speeds.

   
An alternative choice for me at a greater cost would be ZEN.  AAISP are simply to troublesome to migrate to if your starting with a full LLU.  As far as I can gather from talking to AAISP if your on full LLU you can't avoid a full cease and week or two later reprovision if you wish to retain telephone service on your existing number.  It is pity they don't have a land line telephone service option so they could make the switch relatively seamlessly.  Also as far as I can tell when available AAISP also use the TTB backhaul for FTTC  so depending on their arrangements I might not escape the congestion with them.
Title: Re: Current views on a move to Plusnet
Post by: kitz on January 21, 2016, 06:18:51 PM
Current speed test which is possibly slower than normal due to me having an MTU of 400 [long story - vodafone & need to reboot the PC]

(http://www.thinkbroadband.com/speedtest/button/145339933094088242666.png) (http://www.thinkbroadband.com/speedtest/results.html?id=145339933094088242666)

My latency is excellent and never, ever much varies from 14ms to the BBC.   Obviously latency depends on where you are and the DLM, but I can honestly say this isnt something which has ever caused any concern.

I think a lot of the complaints last year were due to congestion on the BTw shared MSILs and Plusnet not being open about the cause.
Support isnt what it used to be, but the past couple of times I have contacted them they have been ok..  in fact the last time I did ring about someone elses line a couple of weeks ago, the call was picked up straight away and surprisingly no queue.   Obviously its not like that all the time though.

Quote
I have noticed various concerns in recent months of things not being what they were.
Once upon a time their CS was similar to Zen and support staff knew what they were talking about.    As they have grown the inevitable has happened and you get a lot more of the script monkey type responses. :/   They also arent quite as open about things as they used to be, but are still a bit more transparent than the likes of BTr/TT/Sky.

 
Title: Re: Current views on a move to Plusnet
Post by: les-70 on January 21, 2016, 09:25:21 PM
 @kitz Thanks for the update it does not sound too bad and your speed tests always seem very encouraging.  However as you say it is exchange dependent.  TalkTalk Business support is a mixture - fast telephone response and technically competent people but after that you quickly find that they are sitting with very limited capabilities via their terminals and issues often seem to have to go into higher levels that don't respond quickly and you can't ever speak to directly. 
Title: Re: Current views on a move to Plusnet
Post by: adrianw on January 21, 2016, 09:37:42 PM
I am with Plusnet Business, and have been since I managed to escape from BT Business (just say no, they make BT Retail look good).

I recently switched from ADSL to FTTC. Mine was the first order for the cabinet and it all went horribly wrong, somewhere in BTOR or BTW with the order stuck and uncancellable, blocking resubmission, then the misfortune of an incompetent and workshy Kelly engineer turning up. Installation actually performed by a competent BT OR man.

After I raised a "what happened to my migration?" ticket, Plusnet beat up BT* and kept me informed through the weeks it took. Mainly through the ticket and emails.

Sync rates on my  short (100 metre) line are good, speed tests and real world use in line with that.

Bearing in mind that they are now a mass market supplier, I am still happy with them.
Title: Re: Current views on a move to Plusnet
Post by: ejs on January 22, 2016, 06:24:33 AM
Even at the best of times, the fastest FTTC lines do seem to lose about 1 or 2 Mb of throughput speed due to the effect of the Plusnet profile (e.g. here (http://forums.thinkbroadband.com/plusnet/t/4429133-pn-ip-profile-and-bt-ip-profile.html) or here (https://community.plus.net/forum/index.php/topic,147947.0.html)). In a way, it doesn't really matter if someone gets 74 Mb instead of 76 Mb, but in another way, it seems like Plusnet get away with knocking off a little speed off every customer, multiplied by hundreds of thousands of customers, it'll be saving them money on bandwidth costs.
Title: Re: Current views on a move to Plusnet
Post by: Bald_Eagle1 on January 22, 2016, 08:14:09 AM
I have been with PlusNet for many years & Force 9 / Free-Online previously when they used those trading names.

The only other ISP that I think would have stuck with me to finally resolve my intermittent external line fault a few years ago would have been AAISP, but their high monthly costs never really appealed to me.

More recently though were the denial issues around the congestion matter (but that didn't really affect my lower speed connection) & their change back to only 2 Mbps upstream on the cheapest FTTC package.
Again, as an existing customer, I remain on a legacy product that allows up to 20 Mbps US although my connection can actually only achieve around 4.5 Mbps due to its 1100m length.

Things do seem to have gone downhill a bit over the last couple of years.
Although I haven't needed to use it for a long time, I have read numerous times that PlusNet's technical support (at one time one of their strongest points) is now quite poor - script reading support staff etc.

If I wasn't an existing customer, I'd now probably also look at other ISPs quite closely, with PlusNet a lot lower down the list.

Title: Re: Current views on a move to Plusnet
Post by: jelv on January 22, 2016, 09:18:32 AM
I too couldn't recommend Plusnet at the moment. When it works it's great but if you get problems raising the issue is a lot harder than it used to be, you will probably wait a lot longer for them to take action when you have raised it, their monitoring of the responses from OR/BTw sometimes breaks down, some issues slip through cracks and only get picked up when the user chases them, the standard of the support reps sometimes leaves a lot to be desired. A lot of issues we see are when people migrate in and upgrade to FTTC.

In short, if being off-line for some days in the event of a problem while they get their act together would cause you grief and you think it's too much of a risk, look elsewhere.
Title: Re: Current views on a move to Plusnet
Post by: les-70 on January 22, 2016, 12:01:43 PM
  Thanks for the comments they are leaning me a bit towards ZEN but I suspect that if nothing goes wrong Plusnet would be fine, the choice would be less risky if contract lengths were shorter.  Connection wise things have only gone wrong for me about every 3 years.  Always due to wires pushed about in the very full cab. 

Zen reviews are generally more positive but apart from prompt customer response I wonder if the actual service is detectably different if your exchange does does not have one of their LLU's.
Title: Re: Current views on a move to Plusnet
Post by: Weaver on January 22, 2016, 12:19:17 PM
>some days in the event of a problem while they get their act together would cause you grief and you think it's too much of a risk, look elsewhere.

Let someone else say it for me.  ;D

And btw, you might really need BTW "Enhanced Care" and multiple lines. During the last month I had show-stopping faults on two out of my three ADSL lines, though luckily not on two simultaneously. The third line, which ironically had Enhanced Care, stayed up the whole time without a blip. Anyway, I hurriedly bought Enhanced Care on one of the problem lines. Considering it takes one mouse click to enable it (seriously guys), it seemed to take its time taking any effect, and I got the feeling, perhaps unfairly, that an artificial delay was in there to prevent people from saying to themselves, "well, I'll just order it if I need it".

I don't think Enhanced Care is good enough as it is, not really powerful enough, and I would also like to see a Turbo version. Nevertheless for some people it's probably an essential now.
Title: Re: Current views on a move to Plusnet
Post by: les-70 on January 22, 2016, 12:59:41 PM
  A short loss of service does not worry me these days.  Mobile is only 3G here but that is enough to get me by for the odd week.  All that would cause me real grief are potential major frustrations in getting an issue taken up. 
Title: Re: Current views on a move to Plusnet
Post by: aesmith on January 22, 2016, 01:01:25 PM
The problem with Plusnet is their support.  Long hold times sometimes exceeding an hour if you phone in (and annoying "music"),  a dysfunctional online fault logging system which sort of has to be tricked into raising a ticket,  then your ticket can be sat on for days on end.  Once the fault's being actioned it seems that different people pick it up, and are likely to go off at a tangent because the haven't read the history properly.    All these mean that anything but a trivial fault is likely to me strung out over a ridiculous time period.

I don't think it's going to improve, instead of fixing the proper support service their efforts appear to be spread out thinly by inviting people to log faults on Facebook or Twitter (of all things!). 
Title: Re: Current views on a move to Plusnet
Post by: Weaver on January 22, 2016, 01:17:58 PM
Well, you do know where you can find what you need.
Title: Re: Current views on a move to Plusnet
Post by: les-70 on January 22, 2016, 01:30:10 PM
   If you read the first post you will see that AAISP have a very troublesome migration route for LLU folk who want their landline phone and number. It is probably the equivalent of the very worst migration case with e.g. Plusnet.  It means a definite 10 days of no service and the risk of the FTTC lines becoming unavailable in that interval.
Title: Re: Current views on a move to Plusnet
Post by: Weaver on January 22, 2016, 01:36:46 PM
Apologies Les, I hadn't read that. Mea maxima culpa. It is a nuisance about the FTTC migration route. What about ordering a second FTTC line and then doing a cease on the first line if you no longer need it?
Title: Re: Current views on a move to Plusnet
Post by: Weaver on January 22, 2016, 01:53:02 PM
What about talking to RevK, to see if he can help think up anything intelligent? (@TheRealRevK)
Title: Re: Current views on a move to Plusnet
Post by: Weaver on January 22, 2016, 01:56:18 PM
See chat room AA IRC over www:
    http://aa.net.uk/kb-irc.html
Customers, staff, RevK himself often, all hang out there.
Title: Re: Current views on a move to Plusnet
Post by: les-70 on January 22, 2016, 03:34:37 PM
  I have had the same response from AAISP over the phone and by email and I believe that they tell the truth. It is the move from full LLU not the FTTC that is the issue. They admit the risk of loosing FTTC if there is no port available after the 10 days of no service. 

 I view AAISP as already getting too expensive so things like extra lines don't have any appeal, in fact a second line might be difficult as there were no spare pairs available here when a neighbor had a fault.  I can see more merit in using AAISP with adsl as then they can give you max control of things.  As far as I know, with FTTC, Openreach simply don't allow any control to ISP's beyond setting the DLM profile on installation. I can see that AAISP would give better support but the product would be much as with others.
Title: Re: Current views on a move to Plusnet
Post by: Weaver on January 22, 2016, 03:55:44 PM
Les-70: you can also talk to other AA customers on IRC if course to find out what attracted them to AA, I must admit I have no experience of FTTC so I can't speak about what parameters can be changed and what can't.

One nice thing is that parameters that are ISP-alterable are also  alterable / changeable values by the user where this makes sense. It's rather nice that AA really trusts the user to have a brain ( whether or not this is the case is another matter ) and lets them go mad with the clueless controls at 04:00 on Sat am.

 
Title: Re: Current views on a move to Plusnet
Post by: aesmith on January 22, 2016, 06:52:24 PM
A&A said they could port our number into their SIP platform if they take over our phone line.
Title: Re: Current views on a move to Plusnet
Post by: Chrysalis on January 22, 2016, 08:07:18 PM
I wouldnt join plusnet right now, although their action (eventually) to deal with the congestion is a work in progress, I would wait until things are confirmed to be improved over a period of time.

Also personally I think plusnet are more closed up then sky tech support, and sky is a bigger isp.  On the pro section of the sky forums they have been quite open in some requests e.g. detailing capacity of individual exchanges, utilisation levels (rather than a vague colour code) and fix dates, as well as on backhaul and transit routes.  Would never get that kind of info from plusnet now.

They also refer to openreach as openreach not "our supplier".

I would recommend either sky or pulse8. Both will avoid BT wholesale assuming in a LLU area and have good feedback from existing customers.
Zen seem to be suffering lately, which could be down to BTw or themselves.
Title: Re: Current views on a move to Plusnet
Post by: jelv on January 22, 2016, 08:30:36 PM
Some other points about Plusnet:

(A clue: all three can be answered in units of years)
Title: Re: Current views on a move to Plusnet
Post by: Chrysalis on January 22, 2016, 11:54:07 PM
yes they also have a reputation for not fixing problems that have existed long term.

e.g. also migration orders getting stuck and need the customer to prompt staff to get it moving again is another one.

The mail one is the real shocker, enabling tls is something that can be done in a matter of minutes on modern email server software.
Title: Re: Current views on a move to Plusnet
Post by: les-70 on January 23, 2016, 09:11:06 AM
  It is not becoming an easy choice.  Just how bad was/is Plusnet congestion?

 If my current TTB just slowed from 60 down to even fully steady 20 I am sure I would not really notice however the actual evening response when TTB FTTC users apparently join TT home is such that iplayer is too irritating to watch, even if the average speed is only down a bit it is full of near zero speeds which just make everything a real pain. Last time it happened the congestion was fixed in few weeks but this time it has been going on longer. 
Title: Re: Current views on a move to Plusnet
Post by: jelv on January 23, 2016, 10:07:06 AM
Other than people with specific issues on their line or congested exchanges which would affect all ISPs, there are few complaints on the forums about speeds at the moment.
Title: Re: Current views on a move to Plusnet
Post by: HPsauce on January 23, 2016, 10:14:11 AM
Just how bad was/is Plusnet congestion?
I agree with @Jelv, apart from the occasional specific problem there isn't any and hasn't been for a while, they seem to be on top of it these days.  :cool:
Title: Re: Current views on a move to Plusnet
Post by: speedyrite on January 23, 2016, 02:33:16 PM
Very interesting to read all this. Currently on Sky Fibre Pro, which is on a par with BT Infinity 2 price-wise for an "up to 76mbps" d/l service at £30 pm + LR, but considering options at forthcoming end of contract. Ditched Sky TV last month, so (anecdotally) a discount in exchange for a further contractual commitment is unlikely to be offered. Was pondering a move to PlusNet, but was already a bit wary after reading about the recent move to dedicated WBMC. May sit tight for a while!
Title: Re: Current views on a move to Plusnet
Post by: Chrysalis on January 23, 2016, 06:46:53 PM
If I was you stay put, sky "just works", no congestion, no peering issues.

If cash is an issue drop down to the 38mbit service, sky's 38mbit service will offer better speed reliability than competitors of higher speeds and sky have good deals on that even without tv commitment.
I was offered free migration, half price 6 months and something else (I forgot) when I migrated, sky also paid off my plusnet remaining LRS.
Title: Re: Current views on a move to Plusnet
Post by: tommy45 on January 24, 2016, 05:23:38 AM
Also if you migrated just FTTC they would hit you with a £50  activation fee, and you would see a 2-3mbps drop in throughput if you get a 80mbps sync  due to their secondary IP profile  even when they set it to 78mbps it still gives a lower max throughput of around 2mbps , you being on sky llu no BTW ip profile restricting the throughput, should be seeing  around 76mbps  maybe a tad over in perfect conditions
Title: Re: Current views on a move to Plusnet
Post by: speedyrite on January 24, 2016, 09:15:47 AM
Thanks (Chrysalis & tommy45) I think I will stick with Sky for now. I'll see what they say when I give them a call to discuss the end of contract situation. Had also been considering a drop back to the 40/10 service actually, which wouldn't be the end of the world for us really!
Title: Re: Current views on a move to Plusnet
Post by: les-70 on January 24, 2016, 09:26:09 AM
  It is interesting that Pulse8 and AAISP use TTB  FTTC.  Maybe they do better than direct TTB customers, if not they would not be good choice for me and I would need reassurance to stay on the TTB platform with another ISP. I may try a chat with AAISP on this issue.

  Until the middle of last summer I had 2 years of perfect performance from TTB, no congestion and good routing, the only gripe was their stable FTTC profile. Costs bit less than BT and with many included extra's that I use like free mobile calls and cheap international. I was told some while ago that TTB traffic was always prioritised over TT home but now they say not so in the evenings, it maybe this is the change that is upsetting me or a general network issue that any TTB reseller would also have.

  Sky is an interesting option, I need to get over my anti Murdoch feeling for that and also investigate Sky customer service a bit.  Plusnet and ZEN remain in my thoughts coupled with view that if nothing goes wrong Plusnet is the best value.
Title: Re: Current views on a move to Plusnet
Post by: aesmith on January 24, 2016, 09:28:36 AM
.. and you would see a 2-3mbps drop in throughput if you get a 80mbps sync  due to their secondary IP profile ..
To be fair on Plusnet that's required for their traffic prioritisation to work.  Without knowing whether there shaping parameters exactly match BTW's I can't calculate whether they could achieve this with a lesser difference, but almost by definition their profile needs to be less than BTs.

By they way, how does LLU work for FTTC - LLU equipment in the cabinet?
Title: Re: Current views on a move to Plusnet
Post by: ejs on January 24, 2016, 12:47:41 PM
There were a couple of threads, first one (https://community.plus.net/forum/index.php/topic,114083.0.html), second one (https://community.plus.net/forum/index.php/topic,126233.0.html), measuring the difference with the Plusnet current line speed on lower ADSL2 speeds. All sorts of explanations were offered by Plusnet, all of which were, in my opinion, contradicted by the test results. It really feels like they've somehow miscalculated the overheads or applied the limit to a different layer that what they calculated it for. It would have been far simpler if they'd just said that they have to take off a little extra.

I think LLU FTTC means the Openreach VDSL2 DSLAMs in the cabinets are connected, by Openreach GEA Cablelink, to LLU backhaul in the exchanges.
Title: Re: Current views on a move to Plusnet
Post by: tommy45 on January 24, 2016, 01:40:30 PM
 That's basically correct each LLU provider has to buy GEA cable links from BT Openreach at the exchanges they wish to do so
So that it links into their LLU kit and thus avoids BTW's Network So no BT IP Profile  hence a higher throughput level

Plusnet uses  only BTW for back haul (no LLU) and even when there profile is set higher than BT's (78mbps) it still reduces throughput, even worse when it auto adjusts BTW IP profile 77.35 PN 77.3 or 77.2

At no point prior to buying are potential customers told about this , infact in their forums their staff even have denied it has such a noticeable effect , now that imo isn't in anyway fair to the customer , If you think about it  how much bandwidth they must save by doing this,

Title: Re: Current views on a move to Plusnet
Post by: Chrysalis on January 24, 2016, 04:58:49 PM
yeah speedyrite I think thats the right choice, I have actually been considering downgrading to 40/10 myself the main thing stopping me is actually the static ip.  My usage pattern would probably be fine on 40/10.

If I ever hit financial issues tho that make me force to drop what I have now with sky I would downgrade over going back to plusnet.  So basically I would rather have 40/10 from sky than 80/20 from plusnet, it will take a while for the plusnet wounds to heal with me.
Title: Re: Current views on a move to Plusnet
Post by: speedyrite on January 25, 2016, 09:33:41 AM
@Chrysalis Yes, the more I think about it, the more I think it's the right choice too. I never got around to using a static IP (have no need of it really). Was on 40/10 originally with no issues for 2 years, before going 80/20 for coming up two years with £10 off (making it the same price as 40/10) for 22 of those 24 months (by recontracting). As you say, there have been no peering or congestion issues here over the almost 4 years I've been on Sky Fibre. The Sky core network seems to have plenty of capacity. Will call them next week when the current discount ends.
Title: Re: Current views on a move to Plusnet
Post by: Chrysalis on January 25, 2016, 02:19:23 PM
do you have TV as well? u did well to get that discount if no tv
Title: Re: Current views on a move to Plusnet
Post by: speedyrite on January 25, 2016, 05:09:37 PM
do you have TV as well? u did well to get that discount if no tv

We have Sky TV no more (joined May 2002, ditched at the beginning of January), so am already aware that further discounts are unlikely as a result! Expectation is that a downgrade to 40/10 is in the offing. Probably worth it at £20pm for the general robustness & stability of the connection, lack of backhaul congestion (to date) and core network capacity over the past 4 years on FTTC (and nearly 8 years on Sky Broadband).
Title: Re: Current views on a move to Plusnet
Post by: gt94sss2 on January 25, 2016, 05:18:32 PM
The big problem for me with Plusnet if I wanted a 40MB product, is their decision to only offer a 2MB upload, not 40/10.
Title: Re: Current views on a move to Plusnet
Post by: Chrysalis on January 26, 2016, 03:59:59 PM
they will discount 40/10 without tv but not 80/20 thats why I asked.  So you should still be able to get a deal.
Title: Re: Current views on a move to Plusnet
Post by: speedyrite on January 26, 2016, 04:08:21 PM
Thanks Chrysalis, that's good to know about!
Title: Re: Current views on a move to Plusnet
Post by: les-70 on January 26, 2016, 05:14:48 PM
  After some reviewing of forums I think TTB and TT have quite a few congestion issues at the moment and judging by the fact that some on TTB report that they are being allowed to leave contracts for free I guess that TTB don't look set to fix things in the near future. I am seeing one of those congestion issues at the moment and that makes me nervous of TTB resellers.  I was myself advised that a contract departure would be OK which I am sure means things won't be fixed soon for me. However I am out of contract anyway.  Maybe losing those who complain is one way of solving the congestion issue!

   My anti Murdoch empire views still put me off Sky and leave me thinking between Zen and its BT backhaul risks on my exchange or Plusnet where I must confess their traffic management (if it works)  seems a possible benefit to users like me.
Title: Re: Current views on a move to Plusnet
Post by: Chrysalis on January 28, 2016, 05:58:29 AM
this is the first I heard of regarding ttb congestion.

zen seems to be going downhill, the posts on thinkbroadband are concerning and they not all recent, they seem to have been struggling lately.

So if you want to avoid sky due to personal issues with murdoch then BT retail is what I suggest.  Unless you ok putting trust in plusnet that they about to go through another good spell as they are migrating away from shared BTw.
Title: Re: Current views on a move to Plusnet
Post by: les-70 on January 28, 2016, 07:41:10 AM
 Here is a TTB example with the same characteristics as my line but much worse.  http://forums.thinkbroadband.com/fibre/f/4455594-ttb-speed-fluctuations.html?vc=1
Title: Re: Current views on a move to Plusnet
Post by: Chrysalis on January 28, 2016, 04:20:01 PM
ahh, ok thanks, yeah that looks not so good for ttb in the case of that customer, although he has packet loss well into off peak as well so I am not convinced its down to utilisation but it does look the most likely reason.
Title: Re: Current views on a move to Plusnet
Post by: les-70 on January 28, 2016, 04:53:12 PM
  I think my BQM is more like congestion but TTB did advise both him and me that was congestion. Below is a fairly average example on my line.

Title: Re: Current views on a move to Plusnet
Post by: speedyrite on February 02, 2016, 11:24:41 AM
they will discount 40/10 without tv but not 80/20 thats why I asked.  So you should still be able to get a deal.

@Chrysalis
Called Sky today as the last discount (which was Sky Fibre Unlimited Pro with a £10 per month discount for 10 months with a 12 month re-contract from 2 April 2015) ended yesterday. Asked for a downgrade from the 80/20 to the 40/10 and was told that it wasn't permitted until the end of the re-contract term which is in 2 months time.

Following a short but amicable discussion about pricing for "up to 76Mbps" services with a couple of their mainstream competitors, I was very surprised (especially given that it's barely a month since our Sky TV ceased) to get offered a £10 per month discount for 12 months to continue on Sky Fibre Unlimited Pro, in exchange for a 12 month re-contract on Sky Talk & Broadband from today.

I suppose I could have tested the waters by pushing for a downgrade to 40/10 AND a discount, but I was happy to accept and continue on the current basis for another year.

So yes there are still deals to be done with Sky!
Title: Re: Current views on a move to Plusnet
Post by: Chrysalis on February 02, 2016, 12:27:37 PM
nice, in the world of retentions its a lucky dip. You drawn a winning ticket.

I think thats a cracking deal, sky fibre pro at pricing comparable to plusnet but a much better network.
Title: Re: Current views on a move to Plusnet
Post by: les-70 on February 08, 2016, 03:04:17 PM
  The TTB congestion seems to have vanished both me and other victims (see current BQM below) and given the not uncommon trouble arising during a move from either TT or TTB, I have decided to leave matters as they are until I see whether any G.INP or other upgrade appears for ECI cabs this year.  If it ever happens for ECI's then G.INP would probably stop the TTB setting of a stable FTTC DLM profile from bothering me.

    TTB dealt with the issue very reasonably apart from a persistent message that the network work team only treat congestion issues seriously after an engineers visit to check things.  I eventually persuaded then that an engineer visit would be waste of their money but it took a few calls on separate days (all answered in minutes) to get someone who actually overrode the need for an engineer visit.
Title: Re: Current views on a move to Plusnet
Post by: kitz on February 08, 2016, 04:04:12 PM
Glad they appear to have fixed it :)
Title: Re: Current views on a move to Plusnet
Post by: Chrysalis on February 08, 2016, 05:20:55 PM
does anyone know if the ES/day threshold on g.inp profiles is lowered or left at the same?