Kitz Forum
Broadband Related => Broadband Technology => Topic started by: gt94sss2 on January 04, 2016, 12:47:15 PM
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OR are releasing a new range of master sockets known as the NTE5C range (https://thecomputerperson.wordpress.com/2015/12/23/new-bt-master-socket-faceplate-nte5c-2/) including a new VDSL Mark 4 frontplate
I gather the new range uses the same backplate but is otherwise incompatable with the existing sockets as its a new tool less design.
Will be interesting if those on the boards in a position to do so are able to compare how the new design compares to the older ones (and specifically how it performs vs the other VDSL faceplates)
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Weaver drools.
Sadly no need to play with lovely SSFPs any more as I have no phones, so I have a straight through plate going directly into the test socket. I'm a big microfilter fan though. I just love them. Totally illogical.
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I say totally illogical, but maybe that isn't quite so. If there's no detrimental effect in signal quality I seem to to remember reading somewhere (Bald_Eagle?) about lightning strikes where on more than one occasion the SSFP took one for queen and country, the ultimate sacrifice, and the modem survived.
Maybe SSFPs still have their place.
In fact, I wonder if really old SSFP designs might have their merits for very long line users - I got a serious ticking off with B*Cat with claws out for saying this, so need to be careful :'( - because they might be more narrow-band and thus ideal where the higher DSL bins aren't even in use, whereas later BT hardware is designed to accommodate VDSL2 frequencies.
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I would like to know a bit more about the surge protection / suicide possibilities of the new hardware when used with ADSL.
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Is there a possibility that this will give VDSL users with the MK3 SSFP any increase in speed/stability?
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I say totally illogical, but maybe that isn't quite so. If there's no detrimental effect in signal quality I seem to to remember reading somewhere (Bald_Eagle?) about lightning strikes where on more than one occasion the SSFP took one for queen and country, the ultimate sacrifice, and the modem survived.
Yes. Your memory is correct.
I'm currently on a Mk 2 SSFP.
When my SSFP was initially switched from a Mk1 to a Mk 2 a very long time ago, I did notice a little speed reduction, but slightly improved stability/reduced error counts.
From what I have read, the Mk3 SSFP has improved filtering, but potentially at the expense of a little bit of speed.
For users achieving high speeds say the full 80 Mbps on a VDSL2 connection, a reduction of 8 Mbps (10%) is probably negligible.
However, the same 8 Mbps reduction for a 22 Mbps connection like mine would be very noticeable indeed & would equate to approximately 36%.
However, I'd still prefer the SSFP to sacrificially cope with lightning effects etc. rather than the modem or even the PC.
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Just a side note on the effects of lightning ............
Lightning is a cause of electrical surges in the network which occur as a result of either direct strikes to line plant or induction into lines in the vicinity of lightning activity. Any strike within 50 metres of an object is regarded as a direct strike. Strikes from 50 and up to 200 metres are regarded as proximity strikes giving rise to induced surges. With the protection methods described in the Lightning Protection Handbook (An OR internal document), the effects of induced surges can usually be nullified.
Direct strikes, however, are much more damaging and it would not be economical to attempt to prevent damage from occurring to the network under these conditions, fortunately direct strikes occur much less frequently than proximity strikes.
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On my long aluminium line, the Mk2 faceplate gives me better upstream sync and only slightly slower downstream.
Typical stats:
Mk 3 Faceplate
VDSL Port Details Upstream Downstream
Line Rate: 1.341 Mbps 23.748 Mbps
Actual Net Data Rate: 1.322 Mbps 23.699 Mbps
Trellis Coding: ON ON
SNR Margin: 6.2 dB 6.3 dB
Actual Delay: 0 ms 8 ms
Transmit Power: 6.6 dBm 11.9 dBm
Receive Power: -6.2 dBm -22.2 dBm
Actual INP: 0.0 symbols 3.0 symbols
Total Attenuation: 12.8 dB 34.1 dB
Attainable Net Data Rate: 1.385 Mbps 28.038 Mbps
Mk 2 Faceplate
VDSL Port Details Upstream Downstream
Line Rate: 1.645 Mbps 22.377 Mbps
Actual Net Data Rate: 1.626 Mbps 22.330 Mbps
Trellis Coding: ON ON
SNR Margin: 6.3 dB 6.5 dB
Actual Delay: 0 ms 8 ms
Transmit Power: 6.4 dBm 11.3 dBm
Receive Power: -6.4 dBm -22.4 dBm
Actual INP: 0.0 symbols 3.0 symbols
Total Attenuation: 12.9 dB 33.7 dB
Attainable Net Data Rate: 1.743 Mbps 27.514 Mbps
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Thanks for that, a very valuable test.
What happens if you repeat the test (careful to avoid angering DLM)? Just in case the reconnection itself was changing things slightly, as has happened for me.
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The above result are a few months old, I did repeat the test a number of times and then retested again a few weeks later all with similar results.
My upstream is consistently faster with the Mk2 faceplate. I'm guessing it's allowing a stronger signal in the lower frequency US0 band, where most of my upstream bandwidth resides, whereas the Mk3 faceplate may give better results at higher frequencies at the expense of the US0 band.
Line >900 metre of mostly aluminium.
Router: Zyxel VMG8924-B10A
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Just found an interesting pdf here, what is peoples opinion then? :)
https://www.openreach.co.uk/orpg/home/helpandsupport/how-toguides/howtoguides/downloads/NTE5C_Instructions_CP.pdf (https://www.openreach.co.uk/orpg/home/helpandsupport/how-toguides/howtoguides/downloads/NTE5C_Instructions_CP.pdf)
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I see that the concept of the "bell wire" still persists! :-X
I would need to handle one of the units before I could form any opinion.
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:(
This is going to complicate my ODC tests I go through with customers.
I'm all for simplification, but a heads up would have been nice.
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That new PDF, like the instructions with the NTE5a, claim that the blue/white striped wiring colours is the older version, but I thought that the four solid colour wires (blue, brown, orange and green) is the worse kind because that's not twisted pair?
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The solid blue wire and the solid orange wire make up the first twisted pair, whilst the solid green and the solid brown wire make up the second twisted pair.
It isn't helped that the same coloured wires were used in CW1308 specification internal cabling prior to the striped variant that is now the current "old" cabling.
I tried to explain the situation on a page in the Kitz wiki (http://wiki.kitz.co.uk/index.php/Internal_Wiring) back in 2012. :)
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That looks interesting, and quite a nice design. The large slots that allowed retro fitting over existing wiring and general bulkiness of the old NTE5A with the VDSL plate on are gone.
I wonder how the NTE5C disconnects the internal wiring when you remove the front plate - are there two rows of contacts in that test socket?
Ian
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We shall have to wait for them to become available on eBay and then, I'm certain, we'll find out. ;)
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We shall have to wait for them to become available on eBay and then, I'm certain, we'll find out. ;)
An Openreach Engineer would snear at the fact they are being sold on eBay as they are supposed to be exclusive to BTORE's, My only ever Engineers was dumb founded to find an unlocked HG612 and that I purchased a SSFP Mk3 on the internet :-X
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Replacing the NTE5 and them knowing it wasn't done by Openreach could equal trouble couldn't it?
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Replacing the NTE5 and them knowing it wasn't done by Openreach could equal trouble couldn't it?
Honestly if you take your time and follow instructions Openreach will just think it was one of their flock that installed the NTE5 if you make a bollocks of it then there could be trouble ahead.
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As he says above ^^^^^ ;D
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Or if you do make a mess of it just say Kelly's or Quinn's did the install... ;D
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;D ;D ;D
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Or if you do make a mess of it just say Kelly's or Quinn's did the install... ;D
that's a lie, u cannot lied about this.
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I've lied for a lot less than £150 :P
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We shall have to wait for them to become available on eBay and then, I'm certain, we'll find out. ;)
Having seen some Fake Britain reports, I'm doubtful about buying plaything from Ebay sellers. perhaos that's why there are so many speed complaints. >:D :-X :D
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I've lied for a lot less than £150 :P
pmsl :lol:
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Where can I buy this mates?
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I don't think you can yet, and even if you did, you're probably not strictly supposed to install one yourself anyway.
It wouldn't surprise me if people started making out to their service provider that they've got some sort of fault, just to get an engineer to fit one for free, because c'mon, you can't expect them to put up with having some inferior outdated antiquated old-style master socket can you? Surely not, not when someone else has a newer one. ::)
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I don't see the issue with installing master sockets yourself, as long as its a professional install. I have had two engineers out back when I had a line fault at the pole, and none of them commented on the master socket install, which by the way was moved to a completely different room from the original entry point. So as long as you know what you are doing you will be fine.
Also I am excitedly awaiting for the NTE5C and new (mk4) Filter to become on sale somewhere, I really want to see if there is much improvement in line stats.
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There might not even be any changes regarding the filtering between the Mk3 and Mk4, the Mk4 could just be to fit onto the new master socket.
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There might not even be any changes regarding the filtering between the Mk3 and Mk4, the Mk4 could just be to fit onto the new master socket.
Yes it may well be, I guess we will just have to wait and see, I am also wanting to upgrade as I think it looks less ugly on the wall than the old NTE5, the new curved designed looks a lot better in my opinion.
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I don't see the issue with installing master sockets yourself, as long as its a professional install. I have had two engineers out back when I had a line fault at the pole, and none of them commented on the master socket install, which by the way was moved to a completely different room from the original entry point. So as long as you know what you are doing you will be fine.
Also I am excitedly awaiting for the NTE5C and new (mk4) Filter to become on sale somewhere, I really want to see if there is much improvement in line stats.
As I understand it, for the absolute best line stats, your best off using no filter at all (though no landline can be in use then), as any filter will add resistance to the line. Though obviously if you know REIN is an issue on your line, the filter will improve the error rates.
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I hope it comes out in the next 2-3 months, I plan on moving the phone line right outside my room where it drops down :^)
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> As I understand it, for the absolute best line stats, your best off using no filter at all (though no landline can be in use then), as any filter will add resistance to the line
This is how I have it on my three lines, just straight into the wall socket. I use front plates that have just an RJ-11/RJ-45 socket in them. Very handy. Available from the AAISP shop ("accessories"):
http://aaisp.net/broadband-accessories.html
(BTW Don't have to be an Andrews and Arnold customer.)
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New NTE5 (Home telephone socket)
Openreach are planning to start using the NTE5C and VDSL Mark 4 filter from June 2016 and have advised that there will be a national launch using 3000 engineers working on installation and repair activities. Openreach will continue to deploy the NTE5A and VDSL Mark 3 filter as it manages the run down and build-up of old and new stock versions. Openreach anticipate that NTE5C will be fully deployed by end of September 2016 when stocks of the existing NTE5A are exhausted.
From http://www.offta.org.uk/updates/otaupdate2016May.htm