Kitz Forum
Broadband Related => ADSL Issues => Topic started by: Weaver on December 31, 2015, 02:11:27 AM
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This is the second time I've noticed this problem:-
BT Test xDSL Copper Test:Pass Openreach network fault found.Pass Openreach network fault found. T051:FAULT - Battery Contact
The first occasion was on Boxing Day morning. It was cleared after just a couple of hours, presumably by human intervention. ( http://forum.kitz.co.uk/index.php/topic,16647.0.html (http://forum.kitz.co.uk/index.php/topic,16647.0.html) )
I performed a "copper line test" using the Andrews & Arnold clueless.aa.net.uk control panel server, and on both occasions the above was the error message produced.
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The resulting high rate of packet loss on this one line meant that my total downstream throughput dropped from 6.4 Mbps to ~0.6 Mbps (!) and I could only fix it by power cycling modem #3.
It's always this line that gets into this 'dripping blood' state - red streaks coming down from the top of the continuous quality monitoring graph, indicating loss of PPP LCP echo requests (the PPP equivalent of 'ping'). It's never one of the other two lines in the bonded set. There is also a new modem on each line, so it is definitely not a bad modem.
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God it really makes me glad that I've got more than one line. It takes about 10 seconds to switch one out if it goes bad and move over to load onto the other two. The load fraction apportioning across the three lines seems to be much more fluid, it changes much more rapidly now as it follows the speed is the BT reports from the BRASs, since I changed to ADSL2 from ADSL1.
On such long, and at times, unreliable lines it really helps having the redundancy. Keeps the show on the road.
I have tweeted A & A, who are working today - Thursday, 2012-12-31.
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I thought occurs to me. The sync rate as gone down, but the SNRM has not increased. So surely this means there is actually more noise on the line than before. This is not merely DLM in action but a change in the line.
* Am I correct in my thinking?
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By the way what does FTB stand for? It's in the context of sync rates.
Is it perhaps fault <something> breach, from extremely dicey memory?
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A & A say it's something between me and the exchange. Raised a fault with Openreach
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I was told the following, by another AA user, IRC username Farnz (Simon Farnsworth) :-
“And TO51 means that the voltage measured on your line does not match BT's expectations given their battery pack feeding the line, but that current draw is not high enough to cause BT to think that it's something plugged into the line.”
farnz: “Lots of possible causes for that - damaged line, miswired extensions, fault in the exchange etc.”
Thanks to Simon for that info.
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Openreach ETA at exchange is before end of 2016-01-02
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By the way what does FTB stand for? It's in the context of sync rates.
Fault Threshold Breach. Means the synch rate is below the Fault Threshold Rate as recorded for your line, and therefore the low synch speed in itself should be taken as a fault. I say should, because I saw one guy on an ISP who will not be named who was simply told that the MSR and FTR recorded for his line were unrealistic - they then went ahead and restarted the training process on his degraded line.
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Thing is, I'm still in the training period. I'll sort out the MSR etc after the fault is fixed and after the training period has expired. Then might put it straight back into the training phase at a much higher sync rate, like that of the other two lines which are both 2700-2900 kbps d/s sync, not ~2100.
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Did you see this on the output from BTW "xDSL Status Check"? Is so, does it show MSR and FTR?
I have a feeling that these are preset to some values at the start of the training period, but that's just based on the facts that (1) my line has MSR/FTR date stamped around 7 days before we first had DSL so clearly ours aren't measured values, and (2) because an ISP faults guy told me that he's often seen those exact figures on other lines where they aren't appropriate, leading him to think there's some sort of default value. Would be interested in what your figures show.
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They are preset to junk values at the start of the training phase, so it seems.
Here's the output from the latest status report I requested :-
Test xDSL Status Check:Pass Standalone sub test passed successfully.Pass OK. Circuit In Sync
BRAS=1856Kb/s FTR=2272Kb/s MSR=2272Kb/s ServOpt=1 I/L=I
Up Sync=402Kb/s LoopLoss=43.3dB SNR=6dB ErrSec=0 HECErr=0 Cells=0
Down Sync=2218Kb/s FTB LoopLoss=66dB SNR=6dB ErrSec=0 HECErr=N/A Cells=0
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Battery contact means that somewhere between you and the exchange one leg of your pair is shorting to the negative (battery) leg of another customer's pair. A dodgy wet joint somewhere.
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Track WLR Fault 5-7-88548862536 Informational Message: 4040 Notification only - Estimated Response Time. bt
Today 10:30:52 Track WLR Fault 5-7-88548862536 Informational Message: 3100 Trouble Report Accepted bt
Today 10:30:52 Track WLR Fault 5-7-88548862536 Estimated Response Time: 2016-01-02T23:59:59 bt
Today 10:30:52 Track WLR Fault 5-7-88548862536 Status: Open - New bt
Today 10:30:38 Track WLR Fault 5-7-88548862536 Message Informational 9323 The asset care level 2.5 will be applied rather than the specified service level. bt
Today 10:30:37 Track WLR Fault 5-7-88548862536 Message Informational 3241 Notification Only - Trouble Report Creation Request is Pending bt
Today 10:29:59 WLR3Test NSY rds00556app02:282166782: Fail FAULT - Battery Contact ServiceLevel:2.5, MainFaultLocation:LN, FaultReportAdvised:Y, AppointmentRequired:N, LineStability:, NetworkStability:, StabilityStatement: steve@a
Today 09:35:03 WLR3Test NSY dys00556app06:275200991: Fail FAULT - Battery Contact ServiceLevel:2.5, MainFaultLocation:LN, FaultReportAdvised:Y, AppointmentRequired:N, LineStability:, NetworkStability:, StabilityStatement:
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Thanks liquorice
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What's the "asset care level 2.5" all about?
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The fault may now poss have been addressed by OpenReach, not sure. They said "by end of 2 Jan" though. But that's a Saturday. Would assume that the guys would rather get it done on a Friday?
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Status report for line #3 today 1 Jan:
BT Test xDSL Status Check:Pass Standalone sub test passed successfully.Pass OK. Circuit In Sync
BRAS=1913Kb/s FTR=1612Kb/s MSR=2016Kb/s ServOpt=1 I/L=I
Up Sync=409Kb/s LoopLoss=43.2dB SNR=5.9dB ErrSec=0 HECErr=0 Cells=0
Down Sync=2218Kb/s LoopLoss=65.7dB SNR=6.1dB ErrSec=411 HECErr=N/A Cells=0
Why is HECErr set to N/A? There is still ATM on the link between CPE and MSAN. Is it because there is no ATM behind the exchange now I'm on 21CN? Is that the reason?
If so, then a very poor excuse.
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I need to put it back into the training phase yet again to cure the now-inappropriate FTR and MSR, but the the line controls have mysteriously disappeared because
“A change is in progress on this line. Once complete further changes can be ordered.”
Unless it's already being done, iniated by Openreach's engineers?
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No, the fault isn't fixed. The modem on that line is still losing sync and generally extremely ill and unhappy.
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At the basic level, there are two types of "contact faults" --
- Battery. Which may also result in hearing a conversation from the other circuit with which the contact has been made.
- Earth. This may result in hearing 50 Hz mains hum at quite a high level.
My reason for mentioning the above is that both types of fault can often be detected by just listening to the line . . . Obviously in your case, you would need to unplug the modem, remove the face-plate and plug a wired telephone into the test socket so exposed. However I appreciate that will be problematic and Mrs Weaver my not be too agreeable.
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Thanks for the explanation. Was as clear as mud before, apart from A & A telling me roughly where the fault might be located.
I do have a wired telephone, but I would need poor Mrs Weaver to unscrew the AAISP shop plain RJ45-only faceplate to get to the test socket. I might be able to find a volunteer to help.
Mrs Weaver's hands are worse than mine. :( :( :-[
Engineer has been booked by A & A. He or she is not coming to me though, apparently. They pointed that out because there was no issue about me having to be in at a particular time, presumably.
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All I have done so far is to run the BT "Copper Line Test".
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Absolutely thank goodness for three lines!
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I converted to BT Enhanced Care on that line, but I don't know if they will ignore it because I ordered it and then immediately reported a fault. ;D
I already have enhanced care on one of the other lines. I'll go back to normal on line #3 when things are definitely back to normal speed and reliability.
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I converted to BT Enhanced Care on that line, but I don't know if they will ignore it because I ordered it snd then immediately reported a fault. ;D
I already have enhanced care on one of the other lines. I'll go back to normal on line #3 when things are definitely back to normal speed an PhD reliability.
A sidenote but given what you have previously posted about your health, I suspect that if your line rental was direct with BT you would qualify for their free Priority Fault Repair Scheme (http://www.btplc.com/Inclusion/HelpAndSupport/DocumentsandDownloads/BTServices/FreePriorityFaultRepairscheme/Free_Priority_Fault_Repair.pdf) which I think means BT Retail pay for a higher SLA with Openreach at no charge to yourself.
I don't know if A&A offer any such scheme.. - though I seem to recall they also don't offer voice calls in the traditional sense.
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I don't have PSTN landline phones. I only have VoIP.
A & A don't have any support schemes for disabled customers. grr.
I have my PSTN line rental with Andrews and Arnold.
That's good to know about BT Retail.
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I have Enhanced Care on two of the three lines in case of some disastrous weather event, the kind of thing that has indeed been known to happen again in these parts. If half the island gets hit by a big storm, I want to have some chance of getting things back up to - at least a limited extent - in a reasonable time, so it's a kind of insurance policy for me, as I rely on it so much.
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I'm just wondering if the battery contact fault has yet been cleared? :-\
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No luck just yet. Escalated within BT at ~8:30 am, engineer booked to come out tomorrow. Andrews and Arnold log reads :
4371 Notification Only - Trouble Report Escalate Request Confirmed bt
Today 08:25:43 Track WLR Fault 5-7-88548862536 Informational Message: 3236 Notification Only - Trouble Report Amendment Request Accepted bt
Today 08:25:43 Track WLR Fault 5-7-88548862536 Estimated Response Time: 2016-01-02T23:59:59 bt
Today 08:25:43 Track WLR Fault 5-7-88548862536 Status: Open - Implementing Solution bt
Today 08:25:25 Track WLR Fault 5-7-88548862536 Notes Field: Please see notes:ESC NOTE: Please note that called to jeoaprdy control spoke woth Barry informed that they will try to get an engineer by 05/01/16.Please review fault tracker for next update on 06/01/2016 . bt
Today 08:25:25 Track WLR Fault 5-7-88548862536 Informational Message: 4245 Please refer to the Notes field for the actual message bt
Today 08:25:25 Track WLR Fault 5-7-88548862536 Status: Open - In Progress bt
Today 08:13:00 Track WLR Fault 5-7-88548862536 Informational Message: 4368 Notification only - Trouble Report Escalate Request Accepted bt
Today 08:13:00 Track WLR Fault 5-7-88548862536 Estimated Response Time: 2016-01-02T23:59:59 bt
Today 08:13:00 Track WLR Fault 5-7-88548862536 Status: Open - Implementing Solution bt
Today 08:13:00 Track WLR Fault 5-7-88548862536 Informational Message: 4101 Notification Only - Trouble Report Escalation Pending.
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Ah, I see. Thank you.
It's good to see that A&A are not letting the fault be "accidentally forgotten". :)
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And yet AGAIN
Now a different line, line 1 has succumbed to the same fault. Went down at 08:00 this morning. Copper line test, reports failure, error code:
“BATTERY CONTACT IN EXCHANGE”
A PSTN fail. Andrews and Arnold on the case once again.
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Today 10:16:20 Track WLR Fault 5-7-89082708472 Informational Message: 4040 Notification only - Estimated Response Time. bt
Today 10:16:20 Track WLR Fault 5-7-89082708472 Informational Message: 3100 Trouble Report Accepted bt
Today 10:16:20 Track WLR Fault 5-7-89082708472 Estimated Response Time: 2016-01-08T23:59:59 bt
Today 10:16:20 Track WLR Fault 5-7-89082708472 Status: Open - New bt
Today 10:16:02 Track WLR Fault 5-7-89082708472 Message Informational 9323 The asset care level 2.5 will be applied rather than the specified service level. bt
Today 10:16:02 Track WLR Fault 5-7-89082708472 Message Informational 3241 Notification Only - Trouble Report Creation Request is Pending bt
Today 10:15:38 WLR3Test NDT rds089a006:367038606: Fail FAULT - BATTERY CONTACT IN EXCHANGE ServiceLevel:2.5, MainFaultLocation:FU, FaultReportAdvised:Y, AppointmentRequired:N, LineStability:, NetworkStability:, StabilityStatement: andy@a
Today 10:13:32 WLR3Test WLR3_CIDT_Test dys00556app04:281988967: Fail FAULT - BATTERY CONTACT IN EXCHANGE ServiceLevel:2.5, MainFaultLocation:FU, FaultReportAdvised:Y, AppointmentRequired:N, LineStability:, NetworkStability:, StabilityStatement:
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Mrs Weaver tells me that the whole village is affected by PSTN faults. Old-school crossed lines and poor sound quality. I've asked Andrews & Arnold to check the final line of my three lines, that has yet to fail.
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Sounds like your own Exchange may have been the victim of flooding ??
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There have been no problems of any kind over here. Perth apparently has been very bad recently, but that's on the other side of the country. BroadFord is roughly at sea level but never sees any flooding. It's been fairly dry here relatively speaking these past few days. It's hard to tell what the cause might be.
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Line cwcc@a.1, i.e. #1/3, the second failure, has been down for more than 24 hrs now. Andrews and Arnold's logs say:
Started Due/Done Task/Note -Auto-
Today 09:06:31 11 Jan 09:06:31 Wait for supplier to confirm fault cleared PSTN Fault - NDT andy@a
Today 09:06:25 11 Jan 09:06:25 Track fault and update customer PSTN Fault - NDT andy@a
Today 09:36:28 Today 09:36:34 BT Test RADIUS Log Check:Pass Standalone sub test passed successfully.Pass Session Worked NAS=
Last=CWCC@A.1 Start= Time=0:15:39:15 Rx=53.09MB Tx=326.49MB
2016-01-07T08:03:54.000 WORKED*1 CWCC@A.1
2016-01-06T16:24:35.000 LOGON*1 CWCC@A.1
2016-01-06T16:17:42.000 WORKED*1 CWCC@A.1
2016-01-06T00:14:13.000 REJECT*1 CWCC@A.1
2016-01-06T00:14:02.000 LOGON*1 CWCC@A.1
2016-01-06T00:11:53.000 LOGON*1 CWCC@A.1
2016-01-06T00:11:45.000 WORKED*1 CWCC@A.1 Unexpected test (OutcomeSummary) andy@a
Yesterday 10:15:54 Today 09:06:31 Wait for supplier to confirm fault cleared PSTN Fault - NDT andy@a
Yesterday 10:15:54 Today 09:06:25 Track fault and update customer PSTN Fault - NDT andy@a
Waiting on faultbtconfirm Wait customer confirms fault closed PSTN Fault - NDT andy@a
Yesterday 14:03:05 Update contact=********************************** - CecilWard_ on IRC andy@a
Yesterday 10:16:20 Track WLR Fault 5-7-89082708472 Informational Message: 4040 Notification only - Estimated Response Time. bt
Yesterday 10:16:20 Track WLR Fault 5-7-89082708472 Informational Message: 3100 Trouble Report Accepted bt
Yesterday 10:16:20 Track WLR Fault 5-7-89082708472 Estimated Response Time: 2016-01-08T23:59:59 bt
Yesterday 10:16:20 Track WLR Fault 5-7-89082708472 Status: Open - New bt
Yesterday 10:16:02 Track WLR Fault 5-7-89082708472 Message Informational 9323 The asset care level 2.5 will be applied rather than the specified service level. bt
Yesterday 10:16:02 Track WLR Fault 5-7-89082708472 Message Informational 3241 Notification Only - Trouble Report Creation Request is Pending bt
Yesterday 10:15:38 WLR3Test NDT rds089a006:367038606: Fail FAULT - BATTERY CONTACT IN EXCHANGE ServiceLevel:2.5, MainFaultLocation:FU, FaultReportAdvised:Y, AppointmentRequired:N, LineStability:, NetworkStability:, StabilityStatement: andy@a
Yesterday 10:13:32 WLR3Test WLR3_CIDT_Test dys00556app04:281988967: Fail FAULT - BATTERY CONTACT IN EXCHANGE ServiceLevel:2.5, MainFaultLocation:FU, FaultReportAdvised:Y, AppointmentRequired:N, LineStability:, NetworkStability:, StabilityStatement: andy@a
Yesterday 10:12:25 Yesterday 10:12:33 BT Test xDSL Status Check:Pass Standalone sub test passed successfully.Pass Line status not in sync Circuit Out of Sync
Up ErrSec=0 HECErr=0 Cells=0
Down ErrSec=0 HECErr=N/A Cells=0 andy@a
Yesterday 10:09:25 Yesterday 10:10:18 BT Test xDSL Copper Test:Pass Openreach network fault found.Pass Openreach network fault found. T022:FAULT - Battery Contact
[Edited by Roseway to remove email address]
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Amazingly, the second failure on line 1 is now the only line that is not covered by BT Enhanced Care!
Originally the healthy line cwcc@a.4 (#3 of 3) was the only one with this option. Then I added it to line @a.3 as well after that started playing up on Boxing Day. I notice they put a long, artificial and ridiculously transparent delay into the enhanced care ordering process so that you cannot just order it quickly to get help straight away with a new fault. (cynical)
Anyway, BT is intelligent, it seems to move the faults around to avoid enhanced care! ??? ;D ;D
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The effects other villagers are experiencing are definitely old-school. One of my neighbours picked up her phone and immediately heard a conversation between two of her other elderly neighbours, gassing away in Gàidhlig ("cabadaich"). ::)
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Are you aware your email address appears in those logs?
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@aesmith can't see it Tony?
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I can ........... ****************. I'd delete that and then this. :)
[Edited by Roseway]
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I've obscured the email address as suggested by aesmith and BlackSheep.
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Thanks guys. I never saw that buried in the midst of all that good stuff.
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I'm not sure what all the latest stuff involving radius is for.
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Having taken a quick look at the log from A&A, it seems as if the individual messages are somewhat out of chronological sequence. :-\
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Tuesday morning, and line #1 cwcc@a.1 is still down. Openreach are taking their time, for all I know, the flooding over on the east coast has not helped.
Andrews and Arnold have not yet closed the other earlier fault on line cwcc@a.3, and "dipping blood" is visible. This is a pattern of red streaks showing coming downwards from the top on the CQM graphs of clueless - the control panel and Continuous Quality Monitoring server - which indicates PPP LCP ping packet loss. The packet loss means a line fault, errors corruption or over speed and congestion.
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I can see from the logs on clueless that Openreach have been chased up and gently reminded.
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Andrews and Arnold said:
Hi,
I've spoken to BT OR faults this morning. Fault progress update.
cwcc@a.3 They plan to work on this on the 13th.
cwcc@a.1 An engineer is planned to work on this either today or
tomorrow.
We are chasing BT regularly on these and unfortunately they keep
breaking their promises made on the phone. We'll keep you updated with any further information.
Steve
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Log for line cwcc@a.1 :
“Note
12/01/2016 17:03 - MACINNES, MALCOLM Notes - fast test2 tok, eclipse tok, no test and demo as no answer. piece of solder touching terminations on mdf TIME:12-01-2016 17:08:46”
Well, clear enough in parts. Some of those things must be diagnostic tests, test programs.
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An oft-common fault, as we are wrapping the wires around their pre-soldered MDF tags, we snap the wire off that won't be used and sometimes it falls down the MDF and will land across 2 pairs of tags ........ putting a contact fault on between two circuits.
The info you see in the notes basically backs up the fact the fault has been cleared using both Fast Test and Eclipse test .......... the MDF engineers are tasked with ringing the EU on resolution of a fault, but if memory serves, you don't use the PSTN side on your BB lines .................. hence the 'No test and demonstration as no answer', comment.
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That's right, there's no PSTN equipment in these lines, and no microfilter.
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I remember once that that I had a prototype wire-wrapped computer said that 2 + 4 was 5, until you pressed down in a particular chip, then it w its mind and said the answer was 7. Massive surgery on the machine, and a whole day wasted, then it was revealed that a six-inch long piece of bare wire was the cause, just lying inside the rats' nest of wire rap wire that the machine was made from.
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What ?? You mean 2+4 isn't 5 ?? Can you provide proof please ? :)
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Returning to line cwcc@a.3
Note 15/01/2016 14:53:00 - Douglas Jack
===Ring ahead information
=== Primary EU contact name : Cecil Ward
Primary Contact no : 01471822xxx
What was the outcome of the call ? : No answer (VM left if available)
Call date & time : 1 5/01/2016 09:10
Secondary contact details
What was the outcome of the call to secondary contact no ? : Not able to ring ahead due to unusable contact details (mis sing/incorrect/faulty line)
===Ring ahead information ends
=== Service is now restored for the end customer and the line is testing ok to standards set. We need to make a subsequent visit to rectify an observed issue which is non-service impacting. The work required is Ug length renewal required. A55 has been submitted, and is located at A55 sent for Ug length renewal. The line has been proven good to an underground joint Battery contact was detected towards the end customer.
===Point Of Intervention notes
=== Between this point.. .
- Location: By sheep pens 200m back
- Work Point: JB26
And this point...
- Location: Jcn dp19 3
- Work Point: JB26
Plant details...
- Plant affected: PR 50
- Plant type: ARM
Multiple Intervention?: N
===Point Of Intervention notes ends
=== Please see additional information Temporary clear by pair change and A55 submitted for length renewa l..
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Dubhghlas From OpenReach came to the house on Thursday. What a nice guy. He was polite and tolerant when I got things mixed up and made some silly mistakes. He phoned Janet and told her that some substantial length (82 m I think she said) of armoured cable needed replacing.
I thought that meant we were going to have to wait for ages to get the problem fixed. It seems completely ok now anyway, fingers crossed.
I can only guess what an A55 is. I'm hoping that they will get on with this and replace the whole properly length for me, as neighbours have been having PSTN faults.
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If my understanding of his notes is correct, he managed to botch it somehow (? Good man!) to get the fault temporarily fixed. I know where the spot is that he's talking about. Near the bottom end of the Heasta Road, near Harrapul, there are some sheep fanks, a favourite spot for cable damage, where cable is lying inadequately buried where vehicles pull off the road onto some flat muddy ground.
Mrs Weaver tells me that Young Andy Heast has been ordering huge 40 ton lengths of tree trunks, ready to turn it into firewood, and the lorries carrying the wood have been told to bring it to the patch near the fanks. She hypothesises that these behemoths may be responsible for the recent cable damage.
But we have had similar trouble before, with BT cable being damaged at the Heasta fank, right near my house, where vehicles were pulling off the road, driving over the BT cable and damaged it. This was fixed by replacing a length of cable and burying it much more deeply and since then, no further damage.
Returning to the most recent trouble, I do hope that BT do the right thing for the whole community. Neighbours have been asking Janet if I am going to fix their problem.
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They have no option but to do the right thing, Weaver ............ the job has been progressed for a cable-length renewal, that is what will happen. :)