Kitz Forum
Broadband Related => FTTC and FTTP Issues => Topic started by: jasjeet on October 03, 2015, 01:04:12 PM
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I wont be available, only my parents, i want to try leave as much information as possible to help the engineer solve the problem on first visit, i have my stats here like this, any point in leaving a copy for him?
============================================================================
VDSL Training Status: Showtime
Mode: VDSL2 Annex B
VDSL Profile: Profile 17a
Traffic Type: PTM Mode
Link Uptime: 0 day: 3 hours: 52 minutes
============================================================================
VDSL Port Details Upstream Downstream
Line Rate: 7.674 Mbps 22.398 Mbps
Actual Net Data Rate: 7.648 Mbps 22.399 Mbps
Trellis Coding: ON ON
SNR Margin: 5.9 dB 14.1 dB
Actual Delay: 0 ms 0 ms
Transmit Power: 2.6 dBm 11.1 dBm
Receive Power: -17.0 dBm -15.4 dBm
Actual INP: 0.0 symbols 51.0 symbols
Total Attenuation: 19.7 dB 26.6 dB
Attainable Net Data Rate: 7.600 Mbps 38.359 Mbps
============================================================================
VDSL Band Status U0 U1 U2 U3 D1 D2 D3
Line Attenuation(dB): 8.6 45.6 N/A N/A 20.7 54.9 83.1
Signal Attenuation(dB): 8.6 45.1 N/A N/A 23.9 54.5 N/A
SNR Margin(dB): 5.9 5.9 N/A N/A 14.1 14.1 N/A
Transmit Power(dBm):- 8.5 2.3 N/A N/A 8.4 7.8 N/A
============================================================================
Total time = 1 days 17 hours 58 min 56 sec
FEC: 1258092687 0
CRC: 29455 255
ES: 6981 245
SES: 204 0
UAS: 347 327
LOS: 2 0
LOF: 10 0
LOM: 0 0
Also do these stats give any real idea of where the problem maybe?
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Could Sky see a problem with your connection?
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Sky got me to do a bunch of things at home, im guessing to rule out the possibility of a fault in the home wiring, then they just proceeded to getting an engineer out. They didnt say or admit there was a fault.
Just for back story which i told sky, my net was solid for the first 135 days of getting fibre, synced at 37/7mb without dropping. Then recently it got very intermittent, but returned from about 30mb back to 37mb over a few weeks. In the last few weeks it just got super bad as the stats show, it was synced at 25mb yesterday (for about the last week), today it has synced at 23mb and the errors just keep rolling in.
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To answer your question, it all depends on the visiting engineers knowledge. He may be well versed in what the full range of stats mean, conversely he may be fresh from the training course and finding his feet ??
I would definitely leave the stats available, and put pen to paper to tell him (as you have done here) what it is that's wrong with your circuit, as you see it. Keep it short and to the point. :)
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I haven't even got a printer so I'll literally have to write a message.
I'll see how I can present the stats in that case.
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What's the estimate for your connection according to MySky? https://secure.sky.com/my-broadband
If your actual sync is much below that you should tell the engineer.
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What's the estimate for your connection according to MySky? https://secure.sky.com/my-broadband
If your actual sync is much below that you should tell the engineer.
Your estimated maximum download speed is 29-37Mbps
And
(https://forum.kitz.co.uk/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FnV8XlXu.png&hash=a60a015c6a5800a6b17884354e79bde78d76c663)
Does this shed any light on the problem?
(https://forum.kitz.co.uk/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FpWdkkGj.png&hash=694405554369004a68526df23a9c618a31e36f7d)
(https://forum.kitz.co.uk/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FVUMSWV2.png&hash=0e79e129ed96983b737b46a74851f5929c88d4cb)
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Would you happen to have a previous Bitloading/Tones graph when your line had a sync rate of 30000 kbps + to compare.
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Unfortunately not since I only just changed the sky SR102 to a Zyxel vmg8924.
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Unfortunately not since I only just changed the sky SR102 to a Zyxel vmg8924.
Ah well it would have been interesting to see the difference, if you are still getting 7000 errored seconds per day when the OR engineer visit's they will check out the internal loop (premises wiring first) and if that pass's the next stage is to check out the external loop.
And with that amount of errored seconds they should be able to track down were the fault lies :fingers:
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BT engineer has said there was a moldy connector down my road which was causing a problem, replacing it has got the Sky Router synced at 32Mb and apparently a 6dB SNR. He gave me the same talk as most get, there are more people using the lines so lower sync speed than i used to get.
2 more weeks will i get home from Bucharest to test the connection with my Zyxel router.
He also said that from the end of my road the connection had hit attainable 40Mb, which is surprising since that really cant be very far away.
(https://forum.kitz.co.uk/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FerVPpwq.jpg&hash=6732fa1dabf47ad731c0eb61817e63d340c495cd)
(https://forum.kitz.co.uk/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2Fj81IMDC.jpg&hash=f94d0af42458a2db7d24a3853cc06a81d9e87885)
(https://forum.kitz.co.uk/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FfIc16BG.jpg&hash=94453f93f8bd7f4bcfb0f3c018c99bc9b5d70c84)
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Well done in getting photos of your line stats from Engineers JDSU and it will be good to see the difference in connection stats when you back home especially those errored second counts.
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This is what i have come home to today
============================================================================
VDSL Training Status: Showtime
Mode: VDSL2 Annex B
VDSL Profile: Profile 17a
Traffic Type: PTM Mode
Link Uptime: 0 day: 0 hour: 4 minutes
============================================================================
VDSL Port Details Upstream Downstream
Line Rate: 7.574 Mbps 27.398 Mbps
Actual Net Data Rate: 7.548 Mbps 27.399 Mbps
Trellis Coding: ON ON
SNR Margin: 6.0 dB 9.8 dB
Actual Delay: 0 ms 0 ms
Transmit Power: 2.2 dBm 11.1 dBm
Receive Power: -17.4 dBm -15.1 dBm
Actual INP: 0.0 symbols 51.0 symbols
Total Attenuation: 19.6 dB 26.3 dB
Attainable Net Data Rate: 7.540 Mbps 36.420 Mbps
============================================================================
VDSL Band Status U0 U1 U2 U3 D1 D2 D3
Line Attenuation(dB): 8.5 45.2 N/A N/A 20.6 54.4 82.5
Signal Attenuation(dB): 8.5 44.8 N/A N/A 23.7 54.0 N/A
SNR Margin(dB): 6.2 6.0 N/A N/A 9.8 9.8 N/A
Transmit Power(dBm):- 9.0 1.8 N/A N/A 8.5 7.7 N/A
============================================================================
So more investigations to be done...
(https://forum.kitz.co.uk/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FZ1JzpcE.jpg&hash=01c6b2832324ff8943e968d8db76790510d60bd9)
(https://forum.kitz.co.uk/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2F9Wr3wnb.jpg&hash=0c0d2a72a6722017267b10641d460ee29dcae60a)
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So more investigations to be done...
No need for investigations your line length is 0.9 km or 900 meters i used to get 27000 to 28000 kbps on my 1 km line and all i did was to remove old internal wiring to Master Socket 3 meters and replace it with CW1308 and then some Cat5e to modem 8 meters.
EDIT: also purchased an SSFP MK3
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So more investigations to be done...
No need for investigations your line length is 0.9 km or 900 meters i used to get 27000 to 28000 kbps on my 1 km line and all i did was to remove old internal wiring to Master Socket 3 meters and replace it with CW1308 and then some Cat5e to modem 8 meters.
EDIT: also purchased an SSFP MK3
You mean this is expected? I've lost 10mbps in 2 months after a solid 36mbps sync for 135 days without resync (6dB SNR) and I'm still below the lowest estimated speed rating for my line. Ring wire has been removed on my line, and i only have 1 socket (master) which the router is connected to via RJ11 over CAT5.
Heres the last 3 hours of stats
Total time = 3 hours 36 min 45 sec
FEC: 172246862 0
CRC: 7 32
ES: 3 28
SES: 0 0
UAS: 24 24
LOS: 0 0
LOF: 0 0
LOM: 0 0
In the morning net has disconnected and these were the stats
Total time = 13 hours 3 min 54 sec
FEC: 550647497 0
CRC: 17283 97
ES: 4823 72
SES: 148 1
UAS: 60 47
LOS: 1 0
LOF: 1 0
LOM: 0 0
Resynced at
============================================================================
VDSL Port Details Upstream Downstream
Line Rate: 7.566 Mbps 27.398 Mbps
Actual Net Data Rate: 7.540 Mbps 27.399 Mbps
Trellis Coding: ON ON
SNR Margin: 6.1 dB 10.6 dB
Actual Delay: 0 ms 0 ms
Transmit Power: 2.2 dBm 11.1 dBm
Receive Power: -17.1 dBm -15.3 dBm
Actual INP: 0.0 symbols 51.0 symbols
Total Attenuation: 19.2 dB 26.4 dB
Attainable Net Data Rate: 7.524 Mbps 38.023 Mbps
============================================================================
VDSL Band Status U0 U1 U2 U3 D1 D2 D3
Line Attenuation(dB): 8.5 45.3 N/A N/A 20.7 54.4 82.5
Signal Attenuation(dB): 8.5 44.7 N/A N/A 23.8 54.1 N/A
SNR Margin(dB): 5.9 6.1 N/A N/A 10.6 10.6 N/A
Transmit Power(dBm):- 8.7 1.7 N/A N/A 8.4 7.7 N/A
============================================================================
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You mean this is expected? I've lost 10mbps in 2 months after a solid 36mbps sync for 135 days without resync (6dB SNR) and I'm still below the lowest estimated speed rating for my line. Ring
Crosstalk is a common reason for a loss of sync rate over time I would have thought you would have taken that into consideration :-\
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You mean this is expected? I've lost 10mbps in 2 months after a solid 36mbps sync for 135 days without resync (6dB SNR) and I'm still below the lowest estimated speed rating for my line. Ring
Crosstalk is a common reason for a loss of sync rate over time I would have thought you would have taken that into consideration :-\
Stats today:
============================================================================
VDSL Training Status: Showtime
Mode: VDSL2 Annex B
VDSL Profile: Profile 17a
Traffic Type: PTM Mode
Link Uptime: 0 day: 1 hour: 47 minutes
============================================================================
VDSL Port Details Upstream Downstream
Line Rate: 7.650 Mbps 24.997 Mbps
Actual Net Data Rate: 7.624 Mbps 24.998 Mbps
Trellis Coding: ON ON
SNR Margin: 6.0 dB 12.9 dB
Actual Delay: 0 ms 0 ms
Transmit Power: 2.2 dBm 11.2 dBm
Receive Power: -17.3 dBm -15.1 dBm
Actual INP: 0.0 symbols 51.0 symbols
Total Attenuation: 19.5 dB 26.3 dB
Attainable Net Data Rate: 7.537 Mbps 38.650 Mbps
============================================================================
VDSL Band Status U0 U1 U2 U3 D1 D2 D3
Line Attenuation(dB): 8.5 45.2 N/A N/A 20.7 54.3 82.4
Signal Attenuation(dB): 8.5 44.6 N/A N/A 23.8 53.9 N/A
SNR Margin(dB): 5.8 6.0 N/A N/A 12.9 12.9 N/A
Transmit Power(dBm):- 8.9 1.8 N/A N/A 8.6 7.6 N/A
============================================================================
Latest 1 day time = 15 hours 6 min 58 sec
FEC: 294628029 0
CRC: 2536 72
ES: 894 68
SES: 72 0
UAS: 59 46
LOS: 2 0
LOF: 2 0
LOM: 0 0
I'm finding it hard to believe since the errors and disconnects continue and the SNR margin is going up and up. Now I'm well outside of the estimated speeds again.
Also i didnt lose sync rate over time, it just happened one day after a solid period of stable internet, the line lost all stability and the speeds have dropped every few days, once recovering up to 30mbps and once to 34mbps.
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It is very hard to see what going on with your line with just a few stats snapshots get yourself set up with MDWS and keep it monitoring 24/7 to see if there is anything that sticks out.
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It is very hard to see what going on with your line with just a few stats snapshots get yourself set up with MDWS and keep it monitoring 24/7 to see if there is anything that sticks out.
MDWS?
I called sky again, and they are sending a BT engineer out again.
Edit
MyDSLWebStats -> I have been logging since yesterday actually, i think it needs a bit of time to appear on their site?
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I called sky again, and they are sending a BT engineer out again.
Edit
MyDSLWebStats -> I have been logging since yesterday actually, i think it needs a bit of time to appear on their site?
So another visit then this is a good opportunity to see what happens to this line after the engineer has been and gone :hmm:
The only thing that looks odd is your FEC errors graph has a linear line with a constant amount of errors just below 1 million per minute.
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I called sky again, and they are sending a BT engineer out again.
Edit
MyDSLWebStats -> I have been logging since yesterday actually, i think it needs a bit of time to appear on their site?
So another visit then this is a good opportunity to see what happens to this line after the engineer has been and gone :hmm:
Yeah, I'm in the UK this week but cant be at home, so not perfect but better.
Today there's been very little SES or CRC errors, but still massive amounts of FEC, possibly since interleaving was increased. It seems like the problem could be occurring at night, so hopefully the log can shed more light.
And yes FEC is 1 million per minute as far as i can tell.
Mum just put the phone down and noticed this (last 15 min (were 0 till now)):
CRC: 327 99
ES: 145 95
SES: 177 0
UAS: 153 0
Edit
SES and CRC still occurring after phone is down...
Edit 2
Line resynced at 10.02pm, now the FEC looks more normal, and SES and CRC have stopped. The sync speed didnt change though.
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Just looking through your stats on MDWS there does seem to be quite a bit of noise on line G.INP leftrs is showing a constant flow of 60 for most of to-day, now I am not expert on this new G.INP stuff yet from others this a good indication to show if the DSL line is noisey.
This noise must be the reason why the sync rate has lowerd and yes a big spike of errord 1000 seconds yesterday but not sure that is the cause.
something is interfering with your parents line but what the cause is I dont know is it internal or an external OR fault on this line :-\
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Just looking through your stats on MDWS there does seem to be quite a bit of noise on line G.INP leftrs is showing a constant flow of 60 for most of to-day, now I am not expert on this new G.INP stuff yet from others this a good indication to show if the DSL line is noisey.
This noise must be the reason why the sync rate has lowerd and yes a big spike of errord 1000 seconds yesterday but not sure that is the cause.
something is interfering with your parents line but what the cause is I dont know is it internal or an external OR fault on this line :-\
Yep i have no idea, the FEC is constantly at 1 million, then after resync close to 0 for some short period (30-60min) before returning to stupid high levels.
And the SES seems to occur in massive bursts.
Im just compiling all the graphs and data for the engineer tomorrow. Its very unusual, ive tried looking for anything in the house that could be causing an issue, but nothing has changed in my setup for atleast a year.
Its very unusual.
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Yep i have no idea, the FEC is constantly at 1 million, then after resync close to 0 for some short period (30-60min) before returning to stupid high levels.
Scratching my head with your last post in bold wondering if it's the modem at fault.
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Thing is the problem started out on the Sky SR102, and I only just installed the Zyxel 8924 about a month ago.
Also, the Sky SR102 has been connected for a week since the BT Engineer last visited and the sync was degrading on that too.
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Thing is the problem started out on the Sky SR102, and I only just installed the Zyxel 8924 about a month ago.
Also, the Sky SR102 has been connected for a week since the BT Engineer last visited and the sync was degrading on that too.
Good that rules out the modem we hope the engineer can find what's going on with this line :fingers:
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Back to 22mbps today =(
Really hope we figure this out.
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So BT guy has replaced the master socket to a REIN something? And replaced the wire going into the home
And router has come back up at 32mbps, lets see what happens.
He also told me there is aluminium in the line from the telephone pole unfortunately.
He told me that he cant totally reset the DLM anymore, he sais they would usually reset it to the max profile ie 40/20, but now they cant even do that, and is instead set to what the ISP believe should be close to connection speed. He said to do it properly he would have to swap the cards at the exchange.
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He also told me there is aluminium in the line from the telephone pole unfortunately.
Oh really?!
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So BT guy has replaced the master socket to a REIN something? And replaced the wire going into the home
And router has come back up at 32mbps, lets see what happens.
He also told me there is aluminium in the line from the telephone pole unfortunately.
He told me that he cant totally reset the DLM anymore, he sais they would usually reset it to the max profile ie 40/20, but now they cant even do that, and is instead set to what the ISP believe should be close to connection speed. He said to do it properly he would have to swap the cards at the exchange.
He he he ..... I think there's been some misunderstanding of what has been said, or you've just been visited by Captain Bullsh1t ??
The REIN something, is most likely a MK3 SSFP. I assume you mean there is aluminium up to the telegraph pole, not from it ?? We tend to talk in terms of from the Exchange - Cab - DP- House ....... so if it was aluminium from the telegraph pole, it would be in the overhead wire.
When I do reset of a line, it automatically goes back to 'Open profile', always has done. Unless he has access to the Rambo profiles (which very few engineers do), he would have had to manually set the speeds via his laptop, or ring the DCoE to ask that they set the speeds to estimated figures ?? I've never know any engineer do that.
Swop cards at the Exchange ?? I haven't got the foggiest what that little nugget is about ??
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SSFP thats what he said as well, i have no idea so im just throwing words out there. I just had a brief phone call while i was at work so im probably not talking complete sense myself.
The FECs are nice and low now, so i think its fixed, attainable at 37mb still, but synced at 32mbps with 6dB SNR, so maybe thats all i have left on the line now =(
He also told me there is aluminium in the line from the telephone pole unfortunately.
Oh really?!
Going away from the house from the telephone pole apparently.
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Oh ok, that makes sense :)
Pity he couldn't reset the DLM profile :(
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Oh ok, that makes sense :)
Pity he couldn't reset the DLM profile :(
I dont know really, its synced at 6dB now, isnt that therefore reset?
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Any chance you can post the stats please?
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Oh ok, that makes sense :)
Pity he couldn't reset the DLM profile :(
I dont know really, its synced at 6dB now, isnt that therefore reset?
After replacing the wire into your premises, it would be rather odd to not reset the DLM, from an engineering perspective ?? They would stand a chance of receiving a 'Repeat Report' (Punishable by death), as the EU would contact their ISP to say their line is still slow and they in turn would build another OR task.
6dB is default, so he may well have performed a full reset. It's very easy for the engineer to do.
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Oh ok, that makes sense :)
Pity he couldn't reset the DLM profile :(
I dont know really, its synced at 6dB now, isnt that therefore reset?
After replacing the wire into your premises, it would be rather odd to not reset the DLM, from an engineering perspective ?? They would stand a chance of receiving a 'Repeat Report' (Punishable by death), as the EU would contact their ISP to say their line is still slow and they in turn would build another OR task.
6dB is default, so he may well have performed a full reset. It's very easy for the engineer to do.
Yeah i mean if he had not reset it, it would just have synced at 22mbps with an SNR of 14dB, no?
Any chance you can post the stats please?
Im not home yet, but you can see all the stats at mydslwebstats website under the user: jasjeet
It looks good to me so far, just a bit annoyed im not back up to the usual 34-36mbps.
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The line has been reset as when you look on MDWS G.INP has been removed and replaced with interleaving G.INP should come back again in 2 days.
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"Yeah i mean if he had not reset it, it would just have synced at 22mbps with an SNR of 14dB, no?"
If he/she had not reset the DSLAM port, then regardless of any improvements made ...... you would have remained on the previous DLM profile (whatever that may have been).
As engineers, we are categorically told not to perform a reset of the port, unless a fault has been found and repaired.
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The FEC is back!
:no:
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The FEC is back!
:no:
Oh dear then this is going end up as a REIN investication yet G.INP was supposed to suppress this kind of stuff.
http://www.kitz.co.uk/adsl/rein.htm (http://www.kitz.co.uk/adsl/rein.htm)
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The FEC is back!
:no:
FECs are CRCs that have been corrected. So don't look on them (FECs) as a bad thing, consider them to be an indicator that the circuit is doing what is best for your current situation.
N*Star has already mentioned that G.Inp has been removed from your circuit. That is a good indicator that a "circuit recalc" (if I am remembering my Openreach talk correctly ;) ), i.e. a DLM reset, has been performed.
So wait a few days and, if deemed sensible by the DLM, G.Inp may well be re-applied to your circuit. When that occurs I would expect the number of FECs to drop to a very small or non-existent level.
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3 million fec per minute and at the same time bit swap went to 0, any correlation?
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:hmm: Hmm . . . Bit swapping should be active across the entire tone range. :-\
I think I will have to check your circuit's behaviour on MDWS.
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:hmm: Hmm . . . Bit swapping should be active across the entire tone range. :-\
I think I will have to check your circuit's behaviour on MDWS.
Please do have a look.
Line just resynced to 30mbps.
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I am currently monitoring the following for your circuit --
According to MDWS: "Down since 27 Oct 20:13 Local". That accounts for why I am not seeing anything happening!
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Yep I noticed, no idea why it's not able to upload right now, it's saying error 26 error uploading. I'm not so well right now, so I'm not going to look at it for tonight at least, but thanks for checking.
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No problem. I'll leave it set up, as above, and take a look at a later date.
I'm not so well right now . . .
:( Do as any sensible kitteh would do: Find a warm, sleepy spot and occupy it whilst waiting for tomorrow to arrive.
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Im just working on getting the stats to start uploading, but for now the sync went back up to 32mbps, i think it dropped purely because of SNR (dropped to 5.3dB iirc).
But the stats look like this for the last 24 hours
Latest 1 day time = 21 hours 54 min 6 sec
FEC: 1595058369 0
CRC: 16885 136
ES: 3047 127
SES: 17 0
UAS: 40 23
LOS: 1 0
LOF: 1 0
LOM: 0 0
Still getting 3 million FEC per min, but during 8am and 4pm, the FEC was in the thousands. I cant seem to track whether bit swapping was turned on in that period in the local GUI of MDWS.
Edit, should be uploading now.
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I can confirm that the data is now being uploaded. Before any sensible observations can be made, it will need to have been uploading for at least 24 hours. So about this time, tomorrow . . . ;)
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I flashed the 7C0 firmware tonight as some people noticed better stability on lower speed lines. I had 10c0 installed prior.
Edit: OMG everything is back to normal this morning! 36mbps!
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I flashed the 7C0 firmware tonight as some people noticed better stability on lower speed lines. I had 10c0 installed prior.
Edit: OMG everything is back to normal this morning! 36mbps!
With G.INP being applied back onto your line this will also give you back some extra sync.
just keep a look out for those humongous FEC's coming back :o
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I see that a re-sync occurred at 0811 hours today. Was that manually instigated?
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I see that a re-sync occurred at 0811 hours today. Was that manually instigated?
Nope I had left the house at 8am 😀
Hanging on to 36900kbps with 5.5dB SNR. Been hammering the net since 6pm. Looking good now.
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I'll take the odd look (via MDWS), now and then, to see how your service is behaving.
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Thanks everyone
Held 36.9mbps with SNR dropping right down to 5.4dB last night :)