Kitz Forum
Broadband Related => FTTC and FTTP Issues => Topic started by: jamesfoley on September 03, 2015, 07:53:59 PM
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I seem to be getting a lot of CRC errors pop up on my line and I'm concerned that it may be because of something inside my house rather than outside of the property. The only problem is, how do I find out what could be the cause of the errors? I've tried a few things already, moving the modem as close to the master socket as I can, getting a short RJ11 cable, installing an openreach filtered faceplate. If anything the error rate just seems to be slowly increasing.
Does anyone know of anything I can test or try out to see if the cause of the errors can be found, or if there is anything I can do to reduce the errors?
I'm on MDWS if that helps, username is the same as the one I use here. The only things I can point out are that my master socket is directly next to a power socket which is being used to power just the modem, and that the modem is using a different psu which meets the requirements of the modem, but I can't see those as being an issue.
Any help would be appreciated.
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Well looking at MDWS I'd not be unhappy with those stats. Yes you do seem to get a few CRCs but I dont think they are that bad. However there are things to check in the house. I'm sure if you search round this and other sites you will find suggestions. I'd first check that any extensions are connected in daisy chain mode and that the ring wires are not connected even with the filtered faceplate. Also you can go round the house with a medium wave radio tuned between stations and see if anything is causing noise (afaik around 600mhz I think) as devices like central heating pumps and fridges and freezers can cause noise issues. Check you have no noise on your phone line (if you are BT there is a quiet line test). Others here with more experience will probaby answer and maybe correct me ;)
Stuart
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I've just had a look at your stats and agree with Stuart - there's nothing there to be concerned about I would say! A few ES is normal - these are what DLM monitors - but your traffic lights are all green so nothing to be concerned.
As Stuart mentioned check for any extensions and connected ring wires.
The only thing that is sticking out to me, is your Upstream SNR drops at certain points of the day, around the 16:30 - 17:00 mark it dips by around 1dB. Is there anything switching on around that time in the house? It could however be some form of external interference though that also could be a cause.
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. . . (afaik around 600mhz I think) . . .
The critical eye suggests that 600 kHz was the frequency intended to be typed. ;)
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. . . (afaik around 600mhz I think) . . .
The critical eye suggests that 600 kHz was the frequency intended to be typed. ;)
Well not THAT far out then really :-[ ;)
Stuart
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Cheers guys. One thing I've done this morning is remove the faceplate and stuck a filter onto the test socket to rule out any issues with the faceplate I've put on there, at the moment it doesn't look like much has changed. (7:30am onwards on MDWS)
I did notice though that the phone extension we have doesn't seem to run from the plate on the master socket, all thats connected to the master socket is a blue and white pair of copper cables. The phone extension does run through the house a bit so I'm wondering if thats picking up any noise. I have no idea where it would be connected to though...
As far as I am aware, nothing inside the house is actually turning on between 16:30 - 17:00, the only thing that could be turning on is the fridge to do its cooling thing, but that is the other side of the house.
I will give the radio thing a try and I'll try testing the line for noise when I get in tonight.
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The wiring of the extension sounds like it is not correct. Your BT master socket should have the extension wired to the faceplate so that when this is removed it isolates all the internal wiring in the house. If the extension wiring is indeed connected directly to the master socket then removing the faceplate will not isolate you from any noise picked up by the extension wiring. In my view this needs to be resolved, it may or may not make a difference now but it will make any diagnosis in the future that bit easier.
Stuart
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(Stuart got there first, but I'll post anyway)
If the phone extension still works with the master socket faceplate removed, then you have a wiring defect which needs to be corrected. Somewhere between the master socket and the incoming telephone cable there must be a connection branching off to the extension. This is very likely to degrade your DSL connection.
As this is on the BT side of the master socket, the proper thing to do is get OpenReach to regularise the wiring. This would involve disconnecting the extension at the point where it branches off from the incoming cable. If you want to retain the extension, then it would need to be rewired to the back of the master socket faceplate.
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Well, I've currently got the plate off at the moment as everything is connected up to the test socket just to see if it would help, so I can give the extension a try when I get home tonight.
Do BT charge for callouts on issues non-property side of the master socket?
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I'm afraid I don't know the answer to that, hopefully someone else will. If it were me, I would quietly do the job myself, and be all wide-eyed innocence if the question were ever raised at a later date (unlikely). But I wouldn't recommend that unless you're sure you know what you're doing.
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Well, the extension is dead, which is kind of annoying as I hoped that would have been the problem! :D
Next on the list is to try moving the power brick away from the modem, but I'm going to stagger my hardware changes over a couple of days as I not too long ago found out its very easy to make the DLM unhappy.
Would be interesting if it was something outside of the house though, I'm not really that far away from the cab.
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(Stuart got there first, but I'll post anyway)
If the phone extension still works with the master socket faceplate removed, then you have a wiring defect which needs to be corrected. Somewhere between the master socket and the incoming telephone cable there must be a connection branching off to the extension. This is very likely to degrade your DSL connection.
As this is on the BT side of the master socket, the proper thing to do is get OpenReach to regularise the wiring. This would involve disconnecting the extension at the point where it branches off from the incoming cable. If you want to retain the extension, then it would need to be rewired to the back of the master socket faceplate.
Eric, hope you can help here please ?. The following is a 'Cut & paste' from our latest edition of the 'Loop'. I wanted to put it under it's own header but for some reason the Kitz site is not allowing me to see the full forum topics ?? I can only click on the 'latest' topics. Ironically, the 'C&P' relates in some small way to the convo here. Cheers Eric. :)
CP engineers working on our network
After consultation with our CPs, we’ve agreed that their engineers – once accredited to our quality standards – will be able to carry out four very specific tasks on our network:
1. Replacing a damaged NTE5
2. Installing a new NTE5 to replace an obsolete version or where no NTE exists (does not include providing service)
3. Moving an NTE5
4. Removing non-compliant star wiring from a NTE5
Why we’re doing this
Following a successful proof of concept trial with three CPs, we were able to demonstrate that it improved customer satisfaction (for CPs and end customers), reduced the number of ineffective Openreach visits and will speed up of the roll out of the new NTE5.
When this will happen
A policy change will take effect from Monday 7 September and all of our CPs will be able to participate.
What about if there are subsequent faults from poor workmanship
It’s important to state that there were no issues identified during the proof of concept. However, if a fault is reported on a line worked on by a CP’s engineer - and poor workmanship is to blame - a TRC will be raised by an automated process. The process works by checking the clear code used by our engineer who goes to fix the fault.
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It's ok Eric ............. I've found a workaround and managed to add it to 'News' myself. Thanks anyway. :)
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You're welcome :)
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Well, the extension is dead, which is kind of annoying as I hoped that would have been the problem! :D
Presumably it's permanently dead then. It would still be worth tracing any wiring connected to it, just to make sure that it has no connection at all with the incoming cable.
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This morning I moved the power brick to a socket the full cable length away, but it looks like I've introduced a lot more errors now, especially on the upstream. Should moving the power brick actually have any effect at all? Also, I'm struggling to work out how to get MDWS to show historic data. Selecting a date range gives me some sort of broken graph.
As for the extension, it's plastered into the wall, so I can't really trace the cable. Its a rented property so I don't really fancy pulling cables out of the wall ;)
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Okay, so an AM radio at 600khz put about a foot away from my HG612 and its power socket produce an interesting diesel engine sound that is very loud. When I do the same to my router the other side of the room I get the same type of loud noise, but more high pitched (possibly because of the wifi?), so I'm just assuming that is the usual interference of those devices. The modem and the router are the only things in the room that seem to make this noise though.
Is there something specifically I should be listening out for?
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In my experience of REIN, you'll be able to here it over multiple frequencies.
If you can hear it just at 612KHz, I doubt if it is service affecting.
I had a faulty router for instance, which could be heard on all AM frequencies when you were near to it. That was a clear REIN source.
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Okay, so an AM radio at 600khz put about a foot away from my HG612 and its power socket produce an interesting diesel engine sound that is very loud. When I do the same to my router the other side of the room I get the same type of loud noise, but more high pitched (possibly because of the wifi?), so I'm just assuming that is the usual interference of those devices.
That sounds like (pun intended) their switching-mode power supplies and does not indicate a problem with either device.
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Cheers for the help guys. Doesn't really look like its going to be something my side that I'll be able to sort so its just a case of leaving it be and hoping they don't get worse over time.
I guess I could try a different modem, or modem/router combo like a Billion or something, no idea if they'd handle errors any differently. I know I didn't really have any issues with the Home Hub 5a (apart from its lack of features and poor wifi), but not being able to see full line stats bugged me a little, for all I know I could have been seeing the same error count on the HH without realising it.
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Does anyone know if the CRC error count can be read from a HH5? Had a look around but couldn't find an answer. I know RouterStatsHub exists which claims to record them, but figured it was worth asking before I go around and swap out my hardware.
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I don't think the HH5A outputs any error counts on FTTC so RouterStatsHub5A is unable to graph them.
It may be possible for ADSL though.
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Ah alright, thats fair enough. Annoyingly thats the only other hardware I have to test on the line, maybe I'll treat myself to a decent VDSL modem and router combo.
Something I have noticed though is my SNRM no longer dips in the evenings, but I'd really like to know what the cause of the errors could be as I'm really not far from the cab at all :(