Kitz Forum
Computer Software => Windows 10 => Topic started by: Chrysalis on August 11, 2015, 12:30:07 AM
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I did advise my dad to wait telling him there is a year to claim the free upgrade, but I guess he got excited and pulled the trigger.
Basically his pc hung on the spinning circle (which happened to me multiple times when installing insider builds, in my opinion this is a common unfixed issue), but unlike myself, rebooting his pc doesnt allow it to finish, it will simply hang again if he reboots, since he didnt backup windows 7 he is now screwed until someone fixes it.
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I was thinking this yesterday. If people don't download the ISO file and have the windows product key.. if a crash happens, how do people re-install it?
I'm assuming that Win10 doesn't install a backup partition like what usually comes with bought PC's? Or a backup 'rescue' DVD.
I suspect over time this could be an issue.
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1. MS think Win10 will never crash ::)
2. Exactly the reason to ensure you get a 'good' .iso image and a burnt to physical media version .... just in case.
3. If you have upgraded and registered, you can wipe the PC and re-install from the .iso/CD/DVD and it *should* re-activate identifying you & the PC again.
4. I have installed from a Win10 .iso to a blank PC and it did work & activate.
5. In spite of 3) & 4) I still trust nothing. ;D
6. Still here ? ....... See 1) ;D ;D
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since he didnt backup windows 7 he is now screwed until someone fixes it.
Just fricken done the same on my dads laptop. Totally *ed up. Wont do a system repair or windows recovery.
He's been in hospital for the past several months and as soon as I switched it on, it started to do a massive update. It sat there with the spinning wheel then decided to crash. Dads lappy was set to do auto updates and it didnt give me the option to do anything about it before it set off trying to update.
Dunno what the hell to do now as all his photos are stored on there. Dont know how Im going to tell him that I think Ive lost everything. Thought I was doing him a favour because he asked if I'd do the update on my fttc connection rather than over his 7Mbps DSL line.
I could cry.. spent all afternoon trying to back out of it.. but it wont do nothing. Dont even have a windows 8 disk or product key for it. :'(
I never dreamed it would set off attempting to update before I'd had chance to change any settings. Never even got the offer screen.
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To at least get back readable files e.g. the pics. you could try a linux image such as mint on a CD or USB and run it without installing. This would let you copy stuff to a second USB.
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Kitz,
Don't do anything else to the laptop.
Switch it off NOW !!!!!!
To stop any further changes etc.
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Thanks les-70. I thought this is going to be my only way out.
Does anyone know of a decent guide for a linux n00b to be able to do this, so I can at least get some of the photos off there.
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Its so bleeding annoying because I really really dont have time to do this and could have done without having to start setting up his lappy again from scratch and trying to put everything on it back how it was.
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Yes, I will agree with Les' suggestion.
Use one of the "LiveCD" or "LiveUSB" Linux images to boot the system and then copy all the data to some form of removable medium.
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I should be able to get your data back if you have not deleted any thing.
You need to treat this the same as a 'Malware event'.
Don't try anything until the disk is examined to find out its current state.
Your data is still there unless it has been over written.
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Kitz,
Don't do anything else to the laptop.
Switch it off NOW !!!!!!
To stop any further changes etc.
Its switched off now. Had to cause I couldnt spend any further time looking at it.
When it tried to auto-boot it tells me its attempting to do a repair, but it fails.
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Download a linux image as an .iso file and burn it to DVD as an image. Just boot from it and run it from the live DVD, the rest will be fairly intuitive. Just copy the files to a USB stick
http://www.linuxmint.com/download.php
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I've been trying to reply, but everyone else gets there before me. :) I agree with what licquorice says.
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I'd second/third/fourth the suggestions to boot from Linux.
But personally I might go even further... do you have a spare usb external drive that might be big enough to take an image of the laptop's drive? If not, maybe the situation might justify buying such a drive?
Then, having booted from Linux, take a copy of the stricken disk using 'dd', and use that as the source for any attempts at data salvage. You can just mount such an image, and it will look just like the stricken disk, but that approach reduces the penalty if you may make the damage any worse, as the original disk remains untouched.
You could do the same using a networked drive, of course.
I won't offer the specific incantations for 'dd' or fir 'mount' because, even though I'm confident what they might be, I'm sure certain other forum members will be even more confident. :)
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Take the HD drive out off laptop and open up side of a Desktop insert sata cable from drive to desktop motherboard and use spare sata power cable from powersupply and boot desktop you should see the laptops drive in your windows OS.
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Take the HD drive out off laptop and open up side of a Desktop insert sata cable from drive to desktop motherboard and use spare sata power cable from powersupply and boot desktop you should see the laptops drive in your windows OS.
A Linux live DVD is much simpler, safer and less prone to damage.
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Drive
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Yep, that is Sata :)
Just need a sata data & Power cable.
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Dismantle my PC and plug it in?
(For those that hadn't realised - I have no way of transferring data across if I leave it in the laptop - possibly too much for USB memory stick)
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Take a deep breath ..... yes.
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Download a copy of Teracopy from http://codesector-eu.s3-website-eu-west-1.amazonaws.com/teracopy.exe (http://codesector-eu.s3-website-eu-west-1.amazonaws.com/teracopy.exe)
[Too big to attach .... sorry]
Use this to copy everything off the disk.
I will talk you through it.
[It copies and verifies via CRC checksums for each file.)
Ensures nothing is corrupted during the copy off the disk :)
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Or just buy an adapter cable and plug it into usb. No dismantling needed
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Link: http://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B00GHJJPEK
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I know you can use a cable but kitz does not have one now.
There is a little bit 'time pressure' to fix this soonest. [Long story] ;D
It would be what I would do but i have a cable already.!
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Lots of good advice here. Boot it off something else (eg Linux bootable CD/DVD) and copy important files off, or put laptop hard disk into another Windows PC as 2nd disk and copy the files off (this is what I do). A disk imaging program (eg Easus Backup) on the Windows PC could make a backup of the whole laptop hard disk).
When that panic is over - what was the laptop stuck on? Was it updating to Windows 10, or was it just trying to install lots of backlog Windows updates generally?
Once you've got a copy of the whole disk or the files you don't want to lose, you may find restarting the computer will clear the fault anyway.
Otherwise, will it boot into safe mode? If Windows update was stuck, google for "windows update fixit" from Microsoft and run that on the computer, then reboot normally and see if it works. (If it was partially though a Windows 10 upgrade then this isn't going to work).
Ian
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Take the HD drive out off laptop and open up side of a Desktop insert sata cable from drive to desktop motherboard and use spare sata power cable from powersupply and boot desktop you should see the laptops drive in your windows OS.
A Linux live DVD is much simpler, safer and less prone to damage.
Disagree with licquorice, agree with NewtronStar, having recovered data from countless PC's.
You need to slave the disk from the laptop (most are very easy to remove) to another PC and copy relevant data off.
The method above is OK, but I tend to use and external "caddy" or USB adapter which are pretty cheap. £10 or so.
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@sheddyian
You are reading ahead in the script ! ;D ;)
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I am doing what I can without being there or kitz having Caddie/usb adapter cable ;D
1. Copy all data off drive [Most Important]
2. Try to recover problem when disk is put back. Can use safe mode and/or recovery options in Win8. [Or patch it by hand if I must]
3. If all else fails restore from 'Recovery' partition, then install Proggies and copy/import back data. [Not the best choice I know]
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I am doing what I can without being there or kitz having Caddie/usb adapter cable ;D
I'd go out and get one PDQ if at all possible. :cool:
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I am doing what I can without being there or kitz having Caddie/usb adapter cable ;D
I'd go out and get one PDQ if at all possible. :cool:
Agreed. Does Kitz, in any event, have the spare internal Sata cable that would otherwise be needed?
Personally though, given how critical this situation is, I'd want to take an image of the raw disk, to preserve its integrity, before attempting recovery. That would need to be a raw image rather than logical, hence I suggested Linux 'dd'. Using 'dd', you just need another disk, with enough free space, that can be attached by USB or network share. You then have a single very large file that is a perfect raw image of the problem disk. When that file is mounted, it will look exactly like to file system on the problem disk which meanwhile can be kept in a very safe place while experiments proceed.
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I don't think kitz is near anywhere that would have one and Amazon would not delivery until tomorrow (late by the usual deliveries I get :) )
As I said there are 'Time Pressures', 'head on blocks' etc :(
TBH I could not get one now if I wanted .... PC World are it, near me, and they are shut. Even when open they would not have anything useful. ;D
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A disk image does not gain much, unless I am going to repeatably cycle thru 'try to fix and restore if it fails'.
That is not a useful method because of the time constraints.
The only important thing on the drive is the data.
If it does not fix quickly it will be restored from Recovery Partition.
There is a last resort route of installing from a win8 dvd but that should not be needed if the Recovery works.
The recovery will be 80% there and the Proggies can be re-installed while the data can be put back from the copy.
If I had the drive I would be able to get back from the Win10 wreck with a little effort and as much time as I needed.
I am trying to do the fastest and safest process ..... fast does not help and remotely compounds that.
For your information: I have recovered Windows of every version crashing & burning many many times (and that is just on my own machines ;D )
Most of the time everything is there but something goes west in the booting process.
Convincing Windows that what it thinks is 'wrong' is the problem. [Another example of MS knowing best :D :D ]
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I am doing what I can without being there or kitz having Caddie/usb adapter cable ;D
I'd go out and get one PDQ if at all possible. :cool:
Agreed. Does Kitz, in any event, have the spare internal Sata cable that would otherwise be needed?
The intent was to use the cables from an existing drive which is used for backups. Simply unplug and swap over power/data cables to the laptop drive.
Copy the important files and restore cables back to original drive.
If I needed to recover the original drive and had no other way, of course, I would do a image copy of the drive, this is not the case.
The recovery partition should be enough if the drive cannot be fixed.
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The situation is brought his lappy home thinking it would be a 2 min job for me to do windows updates here.
Never dreamt that Win10 would do its thing or kick in without at least advising me. I saw the installing Windows10 update message out of the corner of my eye and thought oooh crap and tried to back out of it, just like I did on my own PC. But Im not sure if I left it too late, or it had already hung at that point because it hanging for a while on the installing update (I'm not certain now when where it hung) but it definitely rebooted by itself, and at which point didnt come back up.
Windows told me it was having a problem loading and offered to restart using system restore. I tried that and it came back up offering to repair, but that failed. I stopped at the point when it offered recovery so hopefully data should be intact.
Im out all day tomorrow, and not near anything like PCworld.
Its not urgent urgent, I can possibly tell him that I didnt get chance to do it today as he knows how busy I am. I dont want to upset him yet.. or rather mum who is most likely to go mad, as some of those photos was from a trip to Aus the other year to see his sister.. and I know for sure he wont ever be going back.
Due to personal circumstances I no longer build PC's (I think Ive mentioned before that I cant do things like install CPU's as I have no strength in one hand and some of my fingers are numb) nor do have any of the other stuff I may many years ago have had access to. Tech hardware stuff is kept to a bare minimum really these days and I even struggled a bit to get that HDD out. :(
Yeah I know the importance of backups and although Ive told him before about backups he doesnt have anywhere to store. I think/thought I took a copy of the photos at some point and Ive dug out that USB stick I could/would have used at the time, but my PC isnt seeing anything on it. There is one another stick that the stuff could be on, but I cant find it atm despite turning everything upside down.
I would never have let it update to Win10 without doing a fresh backup, but it had started all on its own as soon as it connected to my wifi.
So first thing is to get data off.
Then I need to see if I can get it running again.
I was about to put it straight in my pc.. but cant get the side case off (stupid damn hand), so will see if a neighbour would do that for me at some point tomorrow.
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ETA.. and not going to attempt more now as my own daily backups run at 1am
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Don't worry.
Your data is still on there.
Just Win10 has played with the boot up files etc
It can be fixed, just might be a bit of a pain if you need to re-install some programs. (Time wise)
The data can be copied over into the correct locations and it will work. (Firefox & Thunderbird)
Ditto for Photos.
Other programs will need to be looked at to see how they store their data.
If we can get the laptop to run in safe mode, and the programs still run, you should be able to export other data to formats that are transferable to new installations.
Once backed up I will try to break the 'bad boot loop' and get the laptop to start properly.
For now keep stumm ! ;D ;)
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since he didnt backup windows 7 he is now screwed until someone fixes it.
Just fricken done the same on my dads laptop. Totally *ed up. Wont do a system repair or windows recovery.
He's been in hospital for the past several months and as soon as I switched it on, it started to do a massive update. It sat there with the spinning wheel then decided to crash. Dads lappy was set to do auto updates and it didnt give me the option to do anything about it before it set off trying to update.
Dunno what the hell to do now as all his photos are stored on there. Dont know how Im going to tell him that I think Ive lost everything. Thought I was doing him a favour because he asked if I'd do the update on my fttc connection rather than over his 7Mbps DSL line.
I could cry.. spent all afternoon trying to back out of it.. but it wont do nothing. Dont even have a windows 8 disk or product key for it. :'(
I never dreamed it would set off attempting to update before I'd had chance to change any settings. Never even got the offer screen.
photos are probably intact, plug in the hdd to another pc to get them.
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I still think a Linux Live DVD is easier than tinkering about moving drives. Transfer the files a few at a time with a non optimal size USB stick or transfer them via the network. I'll put my asbestos suit on now!! :)
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I think, from past experience, Kitz probably knows what the options are and how to execute them. ;)
Personally I'd go out and buy a USB/SATA adapter AND a mid-size external backup HDD for dad's laptop.
The recovered files (whatever method is used) can be put on the new backup HDD and then, once the system is recovered, can be easily reloaded. THEN the drive can be used for regular backups. W10 File History is probably all that's needed and it's very simple, plus maybe a system image every now and again.
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Since the drive is now out of the laptop, I agree with HP.
One word of caution re swapping the cables in an another system, to get at the drive....
...That other system, when it boots up, will find not just that a new drive has appeared, but that the existing drive has vanished. Depending on whether it is Linux or Windows, and what vintage, and how that vanished drive was configured, that can cause it to get a bit temperamental. It's a level of complexity, and additional risk, that I'd want to avoid.
If urgency is not the main concern, and if the local corner shop doesn't sell the adapters, there's always one just a click away, with next day delivery. :)
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I have done this many times.
As long as the drive being replaced is not a boot drive or is actively used by any software it will work.
The drive being replaced is a backup drive that is used to copy file to.
If you plug the drive in it will pick up an available drive letter.
You do not want to reboot the machine from scratch as windows can rewrite some vital boot files when it discovers a new bootable windows drive.
I have done it before (many times) and know most things windows can 'screw up', learnt the hard way. :)
Sent from my LG-D855 using Tapatalk
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Yes 7LM and AAr, that's why I prefer external USB/SATA (or IDE) adapters as it avoids any potential boot confusion. :graduate:
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I agree it is not the best way but sometimes you have to work with what you have. :wry:
Sent from my LG-D855 using Tapatalk
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You do not want to reboot the machine from scratch as windows can rewrite some vital boot files when it discovers a new bootable windows drive.
Yes, quite so. If the 'rescue' system does try spot that Dad's disc is bootable, and try to boot from it, it may well trash the disc's registry in the process as the hardware will look different, making it even more harder to bring the laptop back to life again afterwards...
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I appreciate all the comments and concern. ;D
I WILL NOT risk the data on the drive, which is the primary concern.
Rebuilding the windows install is not an issue as there are multiple ways to do this.
I am trying to help and fix this ! ;D
I have almost lost Pics through a disk crash aggravated by windows trying to fix it (Chkdsk), I know the feeling well. :(
Due to kitz current situation with her family, time is tight, hence the less than optimal approach.
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You do not want to reboot the machine from scratch as windows can rewrite some vital boot files when it discovers a new bootable windows drive.
Yes, quite so. If the 'rescue' system does try spot that Dad's disc is bootable, and try to boot from it, it may well trash the disc's registry in the process as the hardware will look different, making it even more harder to bring the laptop back to life again afterwards...
Even better it can change the files in boot and rewrite your boot up menu etc even when you have not booted from the drive.
I have a machine with multiple boot drives, one of which was from another machine. There were multiple Boot directories and windows got very confused and tried to write to the wrong one etc.
It got very confused ! [read: Broken]
It was fixed but only after I worked out what Windows was doing. :)
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Very quick update as I have to go out again for another appt (for me this afty!). Anyway got in my mitts a USB3 portable 2.5" HD enclosure.
PCworld is about 15mins from the hospital so took advantage of nipping out for a while. PCW was closed (power outage). Maplins wanted £40 for a caddy, but was interesting whilst looking at their silly prices was overhearing an old guy explaining to the store assistant what he wanted a caddy for (Guess!). Tried a local shop on the way home - out of stock - as to quote him, he'd had a run on them over the past couple of weeks, and has several laptops in for repair for similar after w10 updates. Finally got one at another local shop for just under a tenner.. who also mentioned they'd had quite a few W10 update failures for repair.
Just how big is this W10 update failure? From what I heard this morning it seems tip of an iceberg, and mostly all laptops. What happened with dads is certainly not an isolated incident. Its also trashed Chry's dad laptop, so something is going very wrong with this update IMHO. :(
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my dad has a pc not laptop.
He did manage to get win10 sort of working but has had loads of issues so as you can see in my new thread he is now going to downgrade back to win7.
my view is this is a common problem based on my own experience, on my test pc almost every install hung and required a hard reboot to proceed. I think the issue is the hardware detection and automated driver install is broken. Windows 7 (and 8) didnt have these issues, so they must have changed something in that part of the process.
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I've only seen one seriously failed W10 upgrade so far and that was resolved by booting with a repair disc - which I had created on an already upgraded system.
I've no idea what was wrong or why and how the repair disc sorted it, but it did. ???
I had to use the repair disc as I couldn't get it into safe mode (or the W10 equivalent).
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Kitz,
Good price for a caddie.
Sorts the backup problem out :)
You have better local shops than I have ;D
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There does seem to be quite few posts etc about Win10 upgrades causing problems or the attempts to roll back.
MS is trying to cover every possible configuration on a PC or Laptop.
It is not possible to work 100% everywhere.
That is Apples advantage.
Look at how installing OSX on Hackintoshs works and you see a similar landscape to MS.
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PCW was closed (power outage).
:'(
Maybe my influence mind, such things happen to me all the time. :blush:
Good luck with the recovery. :fingers: