Kitz Forum

Broadband Related => FTTC and FTTP Issues => Topic started by: 2pods on August 07, 2015, 06:47:50 PM

Title: Gourock Cabinet 11 don't understand Openreach Lingo....
Post by: 2pods on August 07, 2015, 06:47:50 PM
I posted the following in thinkbroadband's dsl forum after my big moaning match about no fibre at my cab woes (has now slipped to March 2016) and I gleaned the following from roadworks,org, but unfortunately I don't speak Openreach. Roadwork has completed.

Quote
A-ha !)we have Openreach action with a digger. Roadworks speaks thusly:

"Reference: BT020-S000000065730 (1948832)
Location: From O/S 6 Divert Rd, In F/W, Head S Accross C/W To F/W O/S Num 13. Gourock,
Address: Divert Road, Gourock
Promoter: Openreach
Telephone: 0800 3282873
Dates: 03/08/2015 - 05/08/2015 "

Is this finally it for cabinet 11 ?

Would this be it going live
Title: Re: Gourock Cabinet 11 don't understand Openreach Lingo....
Post by: burakkucat on August 07, 2015, 08:05:53 PM
My translation of the relevant line (beginning with "Location:") --

From a location in the footpath outside of No. 6 Divert Road, head south across the road to a location in the footpath outside of No 13 Divert Road.

The above is just a definition of the beginning and ending locations of some civil engineering works that are being carried out on behalf of Openreach.

F/W == foot way (a.k.a. footpath)
C/W == carriage way (a.k.a road)
O/S == outside
S == south

As for the reason for the excavation, I do not know. If you would take a few pictures of the relevant locations in Divert Road, Gourock, (including any of Beattie Bellman's cabinets) and then make them accessible for us to view we may be able to give you some idea of the purpose.
Title: Re: Gourock Cabinet 11 don't understand Openreach Lingo....
Post by: 2pods on August 08, 2015, 12:19:46 PM
Will do later, as it seems to be the one day of summer in Scotland and I have to revisit my garden
Title: Re: Gourock Cabinet 11 don't understand Openreach Lingo....
Post by: NewtronStar on August 08, 2015, 06:06:38 PM
as it seems to be the one day of summer in Scotland and I have to revisit my garden

I can relate to that 2Pods coldest & wettest july over here in Northern Ireland for 20 years and any dry day becomes a hive of activity for lawn mowers and hedge trimmers.
Title: Re: Gourock Cabinet 11 don't understand Openreach Lingo....
Post by: 2pods on August 09, 2015, 07:07:43 PM
They original (functioning) cabinet 11 is at the opposite side of a 20' road.
They "new" one (at least I think it is) is beside a BT pole beside a house

http://1drv.ms/1KZuyvu

http://1drv.ms/1UxonjV

I'm not sure how to put OneDrive images compared to PhotoBucket, so apologies
Title: Re: Gourock Cabinet 11 don't understand Openreach Lingo....
Post by: renluop on August 09, 2015, 07:58:01 PM
You def have pic of an FTTC cab.

This might help with the image problem
http://forums.windowscentral.com/onedrive/240197-getting-usable-image-link-skydrive.html

Title: Re: Gourock Cabinet 11 don't understand Openreach Lingo....
Post by: burakkucat on August 10, 2015, 12:53:12 AM
They original (functioning) cabinet 11 is at the opposite side of a 20' road.
They "new" one (at least I think it is) is beside a BT pole beside a house

http://1drv.ms/1KZuyvu

http://1drv.ms/1UxonjV

Does the excavation essentially link those two cabinets?  :-\

Your first photograph is of a cabinet equipped with an ECI Hi-FOCuS M41 Mini-Shelf (just being used as a DSLAM) whilst your second photograph is of a primary cross-connection cabinet.
Title: Re: Gourock Cabinet 11 don't understand Openreach Lingo....
Post by: 2pods on August 11, 2015, 01:05:55 AM
Yes they are now linked.
Sorry for the ignorance on my part on the actual cabinets.
Title: Re: Gourock Cabinet 11 don't understand Openreach Lingo....
Post by: burakkucat on August 11, 2015, 05:56:24 PM
Yes they are now linked.

That is, therefore, good news!  ;)

Quote
Sorry for the ignorance on my part on the actual cabinets.

There's no need to apologise. If the system (eventually) works well for you then the internal gubbins of a street cabinet is not really relevant.  :)
Title: Re: Gourock Cabinet 11 don't understand Openreach Lingo....
Post by: 2pods on August 11, 2015, 08:22:01 PM
When would it be likely to be reported as live after  this ?

Talking about cabinet internals: I have an old post here with some really old and mysterious (to me) boxes where my line comes in to my master socket  ;D
Title: Re: Gourock Cabinet 11 don't understand Openreach Lingo....
Post by: burakkucat on August 11, 2015, 09:29:24 PM
When would it be likely to be reported as live after  this ?

I really do not know.  :no:  Maybe in four weeks time or maybe in fifty two weeks time.

Quote
Talking about cabinet internals: I have an old post here with some really old and mysterious (to me) boxes where my line comes in to my master socket  ;D

 :hmm:  Hmm . . . Perhaps they should be examined and identified. Mysterious boxes, through which a VDSL2 circuit will eventually pass, could be the source of future problems.  :-\
Title: Re: Gourock Cabinet 11 don't understand Openreach Lingo....
Post by: GigabitEthernet on August 11, 2015, 11:03:17 PM
I have an old post here with some really old and mysterious (to me) boxes where my line comes in to my master socket  ;D

Would you be so kind as to link me to said post? :)
Title: Re: Gourock Cabinet 11 don't understand Openreach Lingo....
Post by: 2pods on August 11, 2015, 11:15:00 PM
Should be this, though I thought everyone had seen them ?

http://forum.kitz.co.uk/index.php/topic,9723.msg196497.html#msg196497 (http://forum.kitz.co.uk/index.php/topic,9723.msg196497.html#msg196497)
Title: Re: Gourock Cabinet 11 don't understand Openreach Lingo....
Post by: GigabitEthernet on August 11, 2015, 11:25:48 PM
Goodness gracious, did you sort those wires out? :)
Title: Re: Gourock Cabinet 11 don't understand Openreach Lingo....
Post by: 2pods on August 12, 2015, 01:17:29 PM
I'm currently operating straight from the test socket, having disconnected all the extension and bell wire stuff.
Unfortunately the house boxes etc. are still here, not knowing any Openreach engineers.  :no:
Title: Re: Gourock Cabinet 11 don't understand Openreach Lingo....
Post by: burakkucat on August 12, 2015, 05:22:48 PM
Unfortunately you are located just a little bit too far from the "catchment area" [1] of Walter's Wheelbarrow.  ;)

That sort of "pig's ear" of wiring is just waiting for a VDSL2 based service to be activated on the circuit and then it will undoubtedly degrade the service's performance.  :-X



[1] The Surrey Hills and environs.
Title: Re: Gourock Cabinet 11 don't understand Openreach Lingo....
Post by: 2pods on August 17, 2015, 03:15:38 PM
So do you think if I could get the cable bypassing the internal boxes it would be OK, or should I try and get a  new point of access, as suggested in the other thread ?
Title: Re: Gourock Cabinet 11 don't understand Openreach Lingo....
Post by: burakkucat on August 17, 2015, 09:18:00 PM
Is the current location of the NTE5/A appropriate for connecting a modem or modem/router directly to a SSFP affixed thereto?

If no, then it would be worthwhile taking the "new point of access" route, as explained by Weaver in the other thread.

If yes, then perhaps you could hire the services of a retired PO/BT/Openreach engineer (look in the classified advertisements of your local paper) to replace all the internal wiring between the NTE5/A and the service feed cable (if you do not feel up to doing it yourself).
Title: Re: Gourock Cabinet 11 don't understand Openreach Lingo....
Post by: Weaver on August 17, 2015, 09:36:11 PM
God I wish there were a retired engineer around my neck of the woods. That would really help me. I wouldn't have to be begging my poor wife to do minute things like plug cables in and unscrewing screws with the electric screwdriver (which is named Walter, German pronunciation), which she loathes.
Title: Re: Gourock Cabinet 11 don't understand Openreach Lingo....
Post by: 2pods on August 17, 2015, 11:28:03 PM
Is the current location of the NTE5/A appropriate for connecting a modem or modem/router directly to a SSFP affixed thereto?

If no, then it would be worthwhile taking the "new point of access" route, as explained by Weaver in the other thread.

If yes, then perhaps you could hire the services of a retired PO/BT/Openreach engineer (look in the classified advertisements of your local paper) to replace all the internal wiring between the NTE5/A and the service feed cable (if you do not feel up to doing it yourself).

Site of NTE5 is good enough.
Wire enters house via the lozenge shaped cbox

Does the new cable connect directly from the cable entering the lozenge shaped box ?

(http://i177.photobucket.com/albums/w235/2pods/BT%20Sockets/FirstEntrance03.jpg) (http://s177.photobucket.com/user/2pods/media/BT%20Sockets/FirstEntrance03.jpg.html)

If so, could you point me to the method, materials and guide to do this ?

Title: Re: Gourock Cabinet 11 don't understand Openreach Lingo....
Post by: burakkucat on August 17, 2015, 11:46:21 PM
Does the new cable connect directly from the cable entering the lozenge shaped box ?

http://i177.photobucket.com/albums/w235/2pods/BT%20Sockets/FirstEntrance03.jpg

I remember that picture! That lozenge shaped box is a BT30 (Block Terminal 30) which could date back to the late 1950s. However it does not appear to be the junction between the service feed and the internal wiring. I really need to ask yet more questions --
Title: Re: Gourock Cabinet 11 don't understand Openreach Lingo....
Post by: 2pods on August 18, 2015, 12:04:16 AM
Lozenge box feeds yet another weird wee box

(http://i177.photobucket.com/albums/w235/2pods/BT%20Sockets/SecondInLine01.jpg) (http://s177.photobucket.com/user/2pods/media/BT%20Sockets/SecondInLine01.jpg.html)

(http://i177.photobucket.com/albums/w235/2pods/BT%20Sockets/SecondinLine02.jpg) (http://s177.photobucket.com/user/2pods/media/BT%20Sockets/SecondinLine02.jpg.html)

Then to NTE5

Line runs from a pole to a small gray box on the side of the house. It's too dark to get a photo until tomorrow, the enters the house to the Lozenge box.

I remember having to reattach a wire in the "lozenge" shortly after we moved in, as the line went down
Title: Re: Gourock Cabinet 11 don't understand Openreach Lingo....
Post by: burakkucat on August 18, 2015, 12:19:32 AM
Now that you've posted the picture of the BT80 (Block Terminal 80), the weird wee box, I also remember seeing it before.

Basically you would need to replace all of the lengths of cable between the NTE5/A and the small grey box on the side of the house (which I suspect might be a BT66 or a BT16) with one continuous length of CW1308 specification cable, thus doing away with both the BT30 and the BT80.
Title: Re: Gourock Cabinet 11 don't understand Openreach Lingo....
Post by: GigabitEthernet on August 18, 2015, 12:24:33 AM
I think officially you would have to get Openreach to do that.

May I suggest raising a fault and telling the attending engineer to fix the wiring?
Title: Re: Gourock Cabinet 11 don't understand Openreach Lingo....
Post by: 2pods on August 18, 2015, 08:57:02 PM
Thanks for everyone's help. It's much appreciated.

Anyway here is/was the final pieces of the puzzle.

The pole is in the garden diagonal to me, whose owners I know . Just a pole yes ?

(http://i177.photobucket.com/albums/w235/2pods/BT%20Sockets/Pole_zpsdvc84xun.jpg) (http://s177.photobucket.com/user/2pods/media/BT%20Sockets/Pole_zpsdvc84xun.jpg.html)

this crosses over to this: and I hope it isn't a shared line with my neighbour through the wall......

(http://i177.photobucket.com/albums/w235/2pods/BT%20Sockets/Outside%20BT%20Box_zpsrlrrwz8n.jpg) (http://s177.photobucket.com/user/2pods/media/BT%20Sockets/Outside%20BT%20Box_zpsrlrrwz8n.jpg.html)

.....and here it is on it's merry way to the internal (or infernal) boxes of the devil circa 1950-ish

(http://i177.photobucket.com/albums/w235/2pods/BT%20Sockets/BT%20Cable%20entry_zpsml1sersw.jpg) (http://s177.photobucket.com/user/2pods/media/BT%20Sockets/BT%20Cable%20entry_zpsml1sersw.jpg.html)

What fault could I raise (apart from it's ancient) ?
Title: Re: Gourock Cabinet 11 don't understand Openreach Lingo....
Post by: burakkucat on August 18, 2015, 09:23:16 PM
It all belongs to the BT Group and its care & attention is within Openreach's domain.

The grey box is a BT66 and I see two interesting features:
When you order a FTTC service from your chosen supplier, you could ask for an engineering visit for wiring normalisation. Ideally, you really need to have the cable replaced from the BT66 to the NTE5/A, in one contiguous length. Some of the existing internal wiring is of dubious quality and, if I remember correctly from when we looked at it some years ago, there is a distinct possibility of split legs in the pair. (Instead of one pair of wires twisted together, there is one wire from one pair and the second wire from another pair.)

All in all, it might be best to find a local ex-GPO/BT/Openreach person via the classified advertisements and have her/him perform the re-wire (BT66 to NTE5/A).
Title: Re: Gourock Cabinet 11 don't understand Openreach Lingo....
Post by: 2pods on August 18, 2015, 09:30:10 PM
Thanks everyone.

The only thing putting me off about the classifieds is  the number of people claiming to be ex-BT/Openreach etc., but I shall give it a go.

Thanks again.
Title: Re: Gourock Cabinet 11 don't understand Openreach Lingo....
Post by: 2pods on December 31, 2015, 12:39:02 PM
The zombie thread that refuses to die....

Cabinet finally gone live. Order placed with PlusNet for 11/1/2016.
I will ask for wiring normalisation visit, but how to go about it ?

I'll try and raise it on my order first.
Title: Re: Gourock Cabinet 11 don't understand Openreach Lingo....
Post by: Black Sheep on January 01, 2016, 10:52:45 AM
The zombie thread that refuses to die....

Cabinet finally gone live. Order placed with PlusNet for 11/1/2016.
I will ask for wiring normalisation visit, but how to go about it ?

I'll try and raise it on my order first.

That's exactly how to do it, when placing your order request the 'Home Wiring Solution' module. If you don't, the chances are the job will be raised as a 'Cab only' task for the engineer, which means you will not receive a visit from the engineer .. basically it's a 'self-install' package.
Title: Re: Gourock Cabinet 11 don't understand Openreach Lingo....
Post by: NewtronStar on January 01, 2016, 03:33:37 PM
Hope you don't mind me asking what the heck are those black tubes on 2pods
distribution pole ?

Title: Re: Gourock Cabinet 11 don't understand Openreach Lingo....
Post by: licquorice on January 01, 2016, 03:49:04 PM
Cable joints
Title: Re: Gourock Cabinet 11 don't understand Openreach Lingo....
Post by: NewtronStar on January 01, 2016, 04:14:23 PM
Cable joints

Ahh is that what it looks like up close, never seen one as they are hidden underground here with one at each 100 meters.
Title: Re: Gourock Cabinet 11 don't understand Openreach Lingo....
Post by: Weaver on January 01, 2016, 04:35:48 PM
I see them on poles. Wondered what such a clunky-looking contrivance might be.
Title: Re: Gourock Cabinet 11 don't understand Openreach Lingo....
Post by: 2pods on January 01, 2016, 09:07:32 PM
I explained all my worries and woes to Gareth at PlusNet via online chat. He agreed that it all looked pretty bad, but said it would be up to the install engineer when he arrived. When I said as they were sending me a Hub One router, I'd assumed it was an unmanaged install ? He said no, there was an engineer booked. I asked would it be Openreach or a contractor, he said he didn't know. So I then tried to book a wiring normalisation visit, he rightly said that as it wasn't their line they couldn't do it in advance (Line is still BT rental), and only if the install engineer/contractor recommends it.

One day............One day.
 :'(
Title: Re: Gourock Cabinet 11 don't understand Openreach Lingo....
Post by: NewtronStar on January 01, 2016, 11:02:17 PM
I asked would it be Openreach or a contractor, he said he didn't know. So I then tried to book a wiring normalisation visit, he rightly said that as it wasn't their line they couldn't do it in advance (Line is still BT rental), and only if the install engineer/contractor recommends it.

One day............One day.
 :'(

In that case get the best bickys out and get or hire a beautiful women in a negligee make sure it's a early appointment and you stay well away just pencil down a note of what you want done and give it to the woman in the negligee and bobs your uncle  ;D
Title: Re: Gourock Cabinet 11 don't understand Openreach Lingo....
Post by: 2pods on January 02, 2016, 12:15:32 AM
.....but what if it's a Kelly's contractor.... ;)
 :D :D :D :D :D
Title: Re: Gourock Cabinet 11 don't understand Openreach Lingo....
Post by: Black Sheep on January 02, 2016, 10:32:15 AM
Cable joints

Ahh is that what it looks like up close, never seen one as they are hidden underground here with one at each 100 meters.

There are quite a few versions of cable joints we can use, it would generally depend on the cable sizes and/or where the joint is to be sited ?. If it's to go behind the pole capping (that metal thingy at the bottom of the pole), then it would have to be an 'in-line' heat-shrink closure. Above the capping, we can use whatever we feel would be best suited ??.
For obvious reasons, the mechanical range of joints are preferred by the engineer, as they are very easy to open and close, compared to the heat-shrink versions.

Why they are actually on the pole could be for a variety of reasons. In certain areas, we get the mad axe-man who thinks it great to go around chopping our cables. It's far easier and quicker to re-joint the cable, than to run a new one from the nearest underground box to the top of the pole. In these areas, you won't be surprised to see 2 sets of metal capping's fixed to the pole to cover the cable to a greater height.

Another reason could be that a new DP or CP (Telegraph poles) is required, and the planner will request that the 'Spare pairs' that are available at a nearby existing DP, are diverted to the new pole via an overhead aerial cable. The new aerial cable would then have to terminate in a joint on the existing DP to 'Pick up' the spare pairs. Hope that makes sense ??

 :)
Title: Re: Gourock Cabinet 11 don't understand Openreach Lingo....
Post by: 2pods on January 11, 2016, 12:52:31 AM
Last night's sleep before the great day.  :drink:
Openreach phoned this morning to check that there would be someone in. Between 9.00am and 1.00pm it's all meant to be happening.

Hopefully I will bid a fond adieu to adsl2 and say hello to FTTC. (of, course this in no way will curtail my current wiring stramash. (Unless it's Christmas, and my Openreach operative is full to the brim of my Tunnock's Caramel Logs.)

Thanks for everyone's help, but now I'll have something else to ask about  :P
Title: Re: Gourock Cabinet 11 don't understand Openreach Lingo....
Post by: burakkucat on January 11, 2016, 01:34:09 AM
Hope it goes well for you.  :fingers:
Title: Re: Gourock Cabinet 11 don't understand Openreach Lingo....
Post by: 2pods on January 11, 2016, 04:11:28 PM
Thanks.

It was a very nice Kelly man who said I was the first in that box, and that Id be pleased.
He was right. My laptop was hitting 74mbps right away, but it's like this on this machine
(http://www.thinkbroadband.com/speedtest/button/145252799208668642465.png) (http://www.thinkbroadband.com/speedtest/results.html?id=145252799208668642465)

He said the old wiring would be OK ( :hmm:), but did leave me an excellent amount of cable and the box for when I move it, so overall I'm very pleased but still have my doubts about the old wiring.
I'm really loving the speed though  :yay: :yay: :yay:
Title: Re: Gourock Cabinet 11 don't understand Openreach Lingo....
Post by: Black Sheep on January 11, 2016, 04:55:22 PM
Result !!! Methinks the 84Meg speed was an anomaly, you can only synchronise at 80Meg, so the throughput will always be below this.

Pure pedantry though ...... revel in your new speed sir. Laaaarvaly.  ;D
Title: Re: Gourock Cabinet 11 don't understand Openreach Lingo....
Post by: 2pods on January 11, 2016, 05:08:16 PM
I think I meant 74mbps.
I'll correct it now.

I'm running the PlusNet Hub One, but I still have to get a new  tplink vr900 going, and keep the hub for emergencies and handy comparison. I'm also through a tplink AV1200 powerline adaptor which is reasonably speedy too after my old Devolo 250 jobs.
Title: Re: Gourock Cabinet 11 don't understand Openreach Lingo....
Post by: Black Sheep on January 11, 2016, 05:11:49 PM
Hey, no worries buddy.  :)