Kitz Forum
Computer Software => Linux => Topic started by: AArdvark on August 07, 2015, 06:23:15 PM
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I am risking the usual Holy Wars but will ask anyway.
As per Subject:
What is the latest view on the best Linux Distro to replace Windows 7 ?
I am not a noob re: Unix/Linux but it has been some years since I used anything in anger and not as a desktop Environment. (More server orientated Oracle based stuff bespoke S/w etc)
I need access to the usual Desktop apps (Word Proc, Spreadsheets etc)
Flashy desktop not a must but it must be useable as Win 7 or OSX (cough spit) :)
My Unix/Linux skills are old rusty but usable. :)
I can get up to speed quick enough.
Just trying to get a workable short list of the front runners.
I will be able to try then all in a few virtual machines to get a good feel for the usability.
Many thanks for all responses. [I hope :) ]
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I would suggest Mint, which is arguably the most popular at present, or Mageia, a spin-off from the late lamented Mandriva.
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I would suggest Mint, which is arguably the most popular at present, or Mageia, a spin-off from the late lamented Mandriva.
Thanks Mint is on my shortlist.
Currently everyone says Mint as soon as you mention Linux. :)
Never heard of it before !
I am also looking at Elementary which was mentioned in a video on YouTube in passing.
Anyway thanks for the confirmation.
Sent from my LG-D855 using Tapatalk
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What's the story with Ubuntu?
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I would suggest Mint, which is arguably the most popular at present, or Mageia, a spin-off from the late lamented Mandriva.
Mint with the Cinnamon desktop is good for your first foray into Linux. I use PCLinuxOS with the KDE desktop on all my PCs including an original Acer Aspire One.
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What's the story with Ubuntu?
Now you have started it ! :o ;D ;)
My understanding is:
Ubuntu seems to provoke strong emotions in the Linux community from what I have read, or rather Canonical Ltd the creators of Ubuntu.
They have lots of power/money compared to the average Distro & their adherents.
This causes a lot of comment re: their power and influence in the Linux World.
Also from what I have read Canonical decided to develop the Unity shell to replace Gnome 3‘s shell; a decision not without its detractors :)
(The usual Desktop front end was KDE or Gnome, Canonical decided to go there own way with Unity, which upset old Ubuntu users and new ones as well.)
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Sorry OT:
Could not resist. ;D
I would recommend watching two YouTube Videos:
Linux Sucks https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5pOxlazS3zs (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5pOxlazS3zs)
Windows is Awesome https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zu0l-Ac7fTU (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zu0l-Ac7fTU)
Very entertaining. ;D ;D :D
P.S.
Below a reasoned opinion re: Operating Systems ;D :D
(https://forum.kitz.co.uk/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F2.bp.blogspot.com%2F-MI8nQ6486Wg%2FTq-EYc48hDI%2FAAAAAAAAAEE%2Fzl5PIl7qrkE%2Fs1600%2Flinuxzealot.jpg&hash=b132044bc57cb4481076442b3d759444a3dd8482)
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They are all much of muchness these days, try 'em all and see what you like. I use Ubuntu on a netbook, works for me. I've got Mageia on an old machine to play with but haven't done much with it.
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I have two installations of RHEL, one 6.7, the second 7.1 and one installation of CentOS 5.11.
Other people (asbokid and Eric (Roseway)) are happy with Debian. (There is, of course, a lightweight port of Debian for the Raspberry Pi. (As N*Star will attest.))
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They are all much of muchness these days, try 'em all and see what you like. I use Ubuntu on a netbook, works for me. I've got Mageia on an old machine to play with but haven't done much with it.
Thanks, I sort of know they are ... but I might be missing something which is why I asked.
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I currently use Fedora (a KDE version). The desktop you chose is as if not more important that the distro. The two main ones are KDE which is quite Windows like and Gnome which I personally hate with a vengeance. Then there are others some of which are pretty good on a low power PC. I previously use Mandriva and tried Mageia then PCLinux but did not like the support community. Ended up with Fedora after trying Kubuntu (a KDE version of Ubuntu). Ubuntu was mainly Gnome and now has I different desktop I believe but I've not tried it. I would suggest a KDE desktop if you are coming form Windows. I gvae my wife a KDE/Linux laptop and she did not really notice the difference from W7.
Stuart
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I have two installations of RHEL, one 6.7, the second 7.1 and one installation of CentOS 5.11.
Other people (asbolid and Eric (Roseway)) are happy with Debian. (There is, of course, a lightweight port of Debian for the Raspberry Pi. (As N*Star will attest.))
Thanks RedHat/CentOS are known, wasn't sure if they were now 'old hat' (groan :) )
I have used RHEL(RedHat) in anger many many moons ago but not as a Desktop OS.
Also dabbled with CentOS as a official RedHat clone.
At the time the front-end (Desktop Environment) was not great on any Linuxes, too 'almost, but not quite, entirely unlike' XP. [Tip of Hat to Douglas Adams :)]
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I currently use Fedora (a KDE version). The desktop you chose is as if not more important that the distro. The two main ones are KDE which is quite Windows like and Gnome which I personally hate with a vengeance. Then there are others some of which are pretty good on a low power PC. I previously use Mandriva and tried Mageia then PCLinux but did not like the support community. Ended up with Fedora after trying Kubuntu (a KDE version of Ubuntu). Ubuntu was mainly Gnome and now has I different desktop I believe but I've not tried it. I would suggest a KDE desktop if you are coming form Windows. I gvae my wife a KDE/Linux laptop and she did not really notice the difference from W7.
Stuart
Thanks, I did mention that I know Ubuntu is now Unity not KDE or Gnome, and all the feedback Canonical got from old & new users. :)
Never did like Gnome much but years ago KDE was not much better. Shades of gray really.
I did work with UNIX and Linux (if pushed) but mainly got to a shell and worked there. (I liked the Korn Shell but that is a different religious argument :D :D ;) )
I wonder if anyone has ever managed to do a clone of AIX or Hp-ux ? <jk> :D
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Sorry I am off topic again.
My mention of AIX and HP-ux got me thinking.
I used to use (a little) VMS which became OpenVMS when it was abandoned by DEC.
I have just found that OpenVMS STILL EXISTS !!!!!!!!!??? :o :o :o :yay: :yay:
If you have never heard of it or used it, it was wonderful but very unique to DEC.
Commandline completion was in another world and it would hold your hand and question what you did if it was ambiguous ???
None of the terminology was like UNIX or Linux or anything else in the world.
But it was 'Rock Solid' it ran and ran and ran. Absolutely Wonderful. :)
[Sorry, just gobsmacked it still exists.)
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@Aardvark -my background was originally entirely VMS 1983-1989. Then some MS/DOS, 1986-1993, then NT in 1994 and remained there ever since.
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@Weaver,
You will know how good VMS was in its own niche. ;D
It was the first non-PC OS I came across.
I would love to play with the old Oses on modern faster kit of today, it would be fun.
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@Aardvark - I should take this off-topic but alluring subject elsewhere, but VMS was indeed gorgeous. Rock solid is indeed the word. An example of serious quality standards to the devs in some of Microsoft, Google and Adobe’s teams whose approach to writing code is mirthful. DCL, loved it.
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@Aardvark - I should take this off-topic but alluring subject elsewhere, but VMS was indeed gorgeous. Rock solid is indeed the word. An example of serious quality standards to the devs in some of Microsoft, Google and Adobe’s teams whose approach to writing code is mirthful. DCL, loved it.
Love the quote .... emphasis mine :D :D :D :D :lol:
Made my day, absolutely true.
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http://windowsitpro.com/windows-client/windows-nt-and-vms-rest-story
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http://windowsitpro.com/windows-client/windows-nt-and-vms-rest-story
Thanks muchly.
Never seen that before, although I have a vague memory of there being a VMS connection to NT.
I am currently looking at all the *now* HP stuff re: OpenVMS supporting systems etc
[Real 'techno-pron' if you like good OS that work ;) ]
I will stop side-tracking my own thread.
(Still good though ! ;) )
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PCLinuxOS for me, my wife and my daughter. :)
I tried Eric's simple instructions from this and used it ever since.
http://forum.kitz.co.uk/index.php/topic,1217.msg43212.html#msg43212
I use it on Desktops, Laptops, and a 'NAS' and 'Backup server' (using a cut down version I have done.)
www.pclinuxos.com
www.pclosmag.com/index.html
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PCLinuxOS for me, my wife and my daughter. :)
I tried Eric's simple instructions from this and used it ever since.
http://forum.kitz.co.uk/index.php/topic,1217.msg43212.html#msg43212
I use it on Desktops, Laptops, and a 'NAS' and 'Backup server' (using a cut down version I have done.)
www.pclinuxos.com
www.pclosmag.com/index.html
Thanks, I am coming round to the idea to just go with anyone for now.
Revive the old skills and keep a Windows 7 VM for when I must use it.
I am still the official support provider for family & friends because 'you worked with Computers ......' ;D ;D :D
That may mean that I need to have a Win 10 VM as well. :yay: :no: ??? :( :'( :D
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To join this thread's meanderings together, how about emulating a Vax and running VMS on a Raspberry Pi under Debian (Raspbian) Linux?
http://www.recondite-computers.co.uk/openvms-and-simh/ (http://www.recondite-computers.co.uk/openvms-and-simh/)
My background is in VMS, I keep wondering about trying this, but really not sure what I'd use it for. (Editing files, probably - I still miss the EDIT/TPU editor).
Ian
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I read about this many many years ago where the emulation worked but was not very fast on average hobbyist kit.
The key question is what would you use it for ?
If you read up on the current OpenVMS on the HP site it is really a 'blast from the past'.
They have tried to modernise it by porting stuff over from the UNIX/Linux world and update DCL to match, but it still looks like a bit of a kludge.
But if the code quality is still up to the old standards 'it will work', end of. ;D
Still would be fun and you would get very few people able to hack an 'emu-VAX' (c) running OpenVMS networked via DECnet. ;D ;D ;D
You would probably have more luck aiming at the Linux platform underneath. :D :D
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Should we ask Kitz for a DEC/VMS section for the 'VMS Appreciation Society' we appear to have found hiding in plain sight? ;D :D
For the ultimate crossover we could include the DEC Alpha & Tru64 UNIX (I knew it as Digital Unix! ).
I must stop side-tracking this thread ..... so sorry. ::) :no: :D
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Ask someone to split it off, so that the VMS-Porn can continue happily. And I miss EVE (edit/tpu). Wrote an awful lot of assembler src in it.
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To return to the original question:
I have just installed 'Elementary' in a VM.
Very pretty ;D
Nice to look at and quite usable.
Still had the 'usual printer problem' you always get ::) BUT to give Kudos to Brother they had a Linux Driver available that works very well & was easy to find.
In fact I had just received an update to the firmware in the Printer today from them as well. (HL-3150CDW)
(Very nice software that automatically updates the Drivers & Firmware when new versions are published. .... It does ask nicely first as well :) )
My sticking point at the moment is the lack of all my add-ons in firefox. Some of them, ignoring the security stuff, are really useful and there are no add-ons in Linux. :(
Update:
Blind as a bat missed setting the menu bar in Firefox to give me access to the usual options, all working wonderfully with all my favourite add-ons. ;D ;D
Elementary is looking a very nice and pretty front-end, very usable.
Already use Thunderbird for my mail, learnt my lesson with .pst files >:( , so no problems there.
On a different planet to Windows 10 and usable from the get go.
An object lesson in how to make the migration a smooth and mostly painless one.
Yes, I know it is Ubuntu with tweaks but it is good enough for now. ;D
Even the most 'Luddite, Technically challenged users' could handle this and be productive in minutes.
(I may have a few of those I support due to familial obligations :) [Meant in jest for anyone reading this! ] )
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If you want to try an alternative mail client, have a look at Claws Mail.
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I second the above. Claws Mail is a very nice lightweight mail client, and with a couple of plugins it has all the features I want. I use the Fancy HTML viewer plugin (which does what it says) and the Notification plugin (which provides the system tray features amongst other things).
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licquorice & roseway,
Will have a look.
Although Thunderbird works for me and I am used to it.
(I am turning into a old stick in the mud ..... Arrrgh! :) )
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I like Thunderbird as a newsreader but prefer Claws as a mail client.
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I have recently discovered Thunderbird (again!) as a Newsreader. When I went to Win7 I found Gravity but that didn't seem to play well with my recently installed 64 bit (could have been me) so I tried Thunderbird and it's fine so far. Not used Thunderbird for a mail client as a friend used Outlook when he got Win 7 and so I could help him, I installed it too. It's OK and I use Safe PST Backup, the free version, to give some cover. Over the years I've dickered with changing over completely to Linux but my sticking point has always been the lack of an easy to use DTP like Publisher. Since I edit a Newsletter I would find it very hard to live without Publisher and before you say Scribus I find that not at all friendly. My favourite distro is Mint and I would recommend that for ease of use.
Tony
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tonyappuk,
You have hit the nail on the head; which always gets in the way of a move for me.
There are always *some* Windows programs that you use that you cannot find a good enough replacement for, if at all.
I am thinking that I will simply keep a Windows 7 VM on hot standby with all the vital apps that I need.
I can keep using the stuff I need until I find replacements and over time I will fully migrate away.
I used to use Outlook and had been using it as long as it existed.
One day after failing to fix someones .PST problem, yet again, I cracked and moved to Thunderbird.
I soon got used to it and at least the data files can be accessed in an emergency and data extracted the 'hard' way.
I don't know how good 'wine' currently is but could you run 'Publisher' under wine ?
['wine' allows some Windows Programs to run under Linux .... never used it in anger so don't know how good it is.]
(I am sure someone will chip-in to advise. ;D :D)
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Unfortunately for whatever reason Publisher does not work happily with wine (gets a yellow rating I think). I suppose I could run it in a vm but it is another complication which I am loath to accept. I have always thought my multiple booting of old XP and assorted Linux distros would be OK but although I'm fairly convinced my new system uses mbr not UEFI, I have not yet plucked up courage to re install Grub2 to access all the old system. Luckily for years all my data is stored on separate drives/partitions so that seems safe.
Tony
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tonyappuk,
Once you get the base software setup, running VM's is easy and they work blindingly well. ;D ;D
If you have access to VMWare\MS Virtualisation s/w it is very easy and so I have read ditto for VirtualBox on Linux which is free, so even better.
VM's are a godsend, I know it is a cheat in one way to avoid totally migrating away from MS but it solves a problem very well.
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I tried VirtualBox some time ago and it seemed to work but I wasn't comfortable with it. Not tried the MS offering, maybe I should. Thanks.
Tony
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My personal bias is the VMware S/W but it depends what you are able to get at the best cost.
I have worked for companies using both VMware and/or MS Hyper-V, it comes down to yet more 'religious' debates. :)
Both very good though.
If you really want to get clever you can run vSphere inside Workstation, vSphere inside vSphere or Hyper-V inside vSphere ....... and so on.)
'Nested Virtualisation' works although not supported by VMware.
(Even though VMware do this in house so I have read in the 'interweb' :o ;D )
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I tried VirtualBox some time ago and it seemed to work but I wasn't comfortable with it.
What was making you uncomfortable? The Linux version works very well here.
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What was making you uncomfortable? The Linux version works very well here.
That thought did cross my mind but I have not used VirtualBox in Anger, although I have run a pre-packaged virtual app with no problems. (equiv of VMwares 'virtual appliances').
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An update on my progress:
I have installed 'Mint' ;D
Wow!, Linux has improved from my last experience. ;D ;D :D
Elementary was very good but Mint is very very good !
I appreciate why it is being recommended by everyone.
It would be very easy for a Windows only user to move to and use.
Everything works and all your base apps are installed, windows work more or less as you expect coming from MS Windows.
Very configurable and overall a really good experience for anyone new to Linux.
(A few tweaks to select 'My Favourite apps' but no issues at all, everything would be usable for a newbie by default)
I am really beginning to think a move from Windows is possible for me. :o :o ;D ;D :D
(Plus point is I get to play with *nix again ;D ) :yay:
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I am really beginning to think a move from Windows is possible for me. :o :o ;D ;D :D
(Plus point is I get to play with *nix again ;D ) :yay:
I do think someone has seen that there is light at the end of the tunnel and it is possible to escape from the Dark Side. :D :angel:
:dance: :silly: :clap:
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burakkucat,
LOL
The problem is I can hear these faint voices, when I close my eyes, calling to me:
"Listen to Bill ..... Don't go towards the light !"
;D ;)