Kitz Forum

Broadband Related => ISPs => Topic started by: tommy45 on July 07, 2015, 10:38:20 PM

Title: Plusnet have pulled their Performance/Usage Graphs
Post by: tommy45 on July 07, 2015, 10:38:20 PM
As above, but why have they done so?

http://www.plus.net/support/service/network_performance/broadband_bandwidth_usage.shtml#totalTraffic (http://www.plus.net/support/service/network_performance/broadband_bandwidth_usage.shtml#totalTraffic)

The above link now redirects to plusnet's useless help assistant Jess
Title: Re: Plusnet have pulled their Performance/Usage Graphs
Post by: HPsauce on July 07, 2015, 10:45:14 PM
Commercially sensitive information that no-one else publishes, according to a response on their own forum.
Title: Re: Plusnet have pulled their Performance/Usage Graphs
Post by: kitz on July 07, 2015, 11:50:51 PM
Yeah I saw that.     I went to the forum last night because when I got home my connection was awful - this was at gone 10pm so god knows what it would have been like earlier in the evening.  I was only getting 12Mbps and web pages wouldnt load properly.     

I did a pipe hopping session, but then couldnt get connected at all.   Not chuffed - usual no response from the reps on the forum.
I'm really not liking the way things are heading atm. :(
Title: Re: Plusnet have pulled their Performance/Usage Graphs
Post by: burakkucat on July 08, 2015, 12:13:49 AM
Oh dear. It does seem as if the predictions made, when Plusnet were bought by BT Group, are coming true.  :(
Title: Re: Plusnet have pulled their Performance/Usage Graphs
Post by: renluop on July 08, 2015, 12:55:34 AM
though those predictions have taken a longish time coming.
Title: Re: Plusnet have pulled their Performance/Usage Graphs
Post by: Chrysalis on July 08, 2015, 01:19:16 AM
the current slide with plusnet started when the current CEO joined end of 2013.

As I understand it 2013 was a good year for plusnet, right at the end of 2013 they were starting the ipv6 trial and people were generally happy.

Early 2014 the digital care team was scrapped with the complaints team taking over the role of forum support.  At the same time this occurred the updates on capacity upgrades ceased and all activity in fixing ipv6 issues seemed to stop as well.

Late 2014 congestion issues were becoming more visible, and escalated significantly starting in jan 2015.

In 2015 the ticket system was hidden, and eventually removed.
Live chat was introduced a system both BT retail and sky use.

Also the dodgy BNG gateways were introduced in 2015 and now take the vast majority of new sessions.

During spring 2015 plusnet staff warned the graphs were going to be removed when people were using those graphs in the capacity thread as evidence of problems, and of course in the past day they actually did get removed.

LRS savings have been significantly reduced compared to what they used to be, given LRS is non refundable its probably a good idea to not use it anymore.

Line rental and voice service costs continue to rise way above inflation (granted many isps have this issue).

40/10 was bizarrely changed to 40/20 in late 2014, which turned out to be a short term move as within the past 1-2 months it has now been dropped to 40/2.

Call centre waiting time's continue to rise dispite promises to get them reduced, ticket waiting times were typically 5+ days.

July 16th 2015 24/7 support will end for residential customers, with the ticket system gone, someone wont even be able to leave a ticket at those hours.

With the way things are going, I will be surprised if the likes of chris parr and matthew will still be providing support on the forums at the end of 2015.
Title: Re: Plusnet have pulled their Performance/Usage Graphs
Post by: kitz on July 08, 2015, 02:26:41 AM
I can only echo what Chrys said above.  In 2013 they were good and people were happy.  Its only the very end of 2014 when small changes started occurring and 2015 before things started to impact.

BT mostly left them alone and their first CEO appointed by BT IMHO was brilliant..   Neil Laycock picked Plusnet up and turned it right round. 
He was honest and as open with the EU's as he could be and under his rule there wasn't any issues with congestion and they even laid back with the Ellacoyas and CS was good.

I really don't know what's going on behind closed doors atm, but it all seems to be about the money..  the prices are budget aimed at getting new users in - although prices havent dropped for existing users.    They are obviously banking on bringing users in at practically a loss hoping they will stay..  but at this rate if things continue to slide the way they have done over the past 4 months in particular, then I doubt they will continue to maintain their award winning customer satisfaction.    Im seeing deja-vu of how things were just before Neil Laycock took over :(

When they start attracting in so many new users that are bringing little profit, then of course things like "centrals" and staff start to slide.
I don't say much,  but I can't help but observe the situation from another more personal source and its sad to see what the impact is on some very good staff who have/had been with PN for donkey's years.     
Title: Re: Plusnet have pulled their Performance/Usage Graphs
Post by: tommy45 on July 08, 2015, 12:48:42 PM
I was seeing congestion at peak times back in 2013 within the first 6 mths of switching to them i switched in April 13 , and they the woeful forum reps where playing the blame everything but them and BT back then And they  where  all about money back then too with big cash backs offered via 3rd parties, that often would be problematic for EU's  when it came round to being paid, it's all there on their forums or was,
Title: Re: Plusnet have pulled their Performance/Usage Graphs
Post by: Terranova667 on July 08, 2015, 11:39:03 PM
They have now pulled the ability to see what your Plusnet profile is set to which was very useful especially for new members that had joined when their speeds were not being quite what they should be it would be the first thing you would ask them to check,  seriously what the hell are they doing. 
Title: Re: Plusnet have pulled their Performance/Usage Graphs
Post by: Chrysalis on July 08, 2015, 11:52:38 PM
wow that is crazy.  So its no longer a 30 sec job to check if the plusnet profile stuck?
Title: Re: Plusnet have pulled their Performance/Usage Graphs
Post by: Terranova667 on July 09, 2015, 12:02:13 AM
This was Plusnets response .   "The information on there, whilst useful for some people shouldn't really need to be shown as the profile should (and it does update the vast majority of the time now) keep up to date with the IP profile which is the more relevant number when looking in to connection problems."   :no:
Title: Re: Plusnet have pulled their Performance/Usage Graphs
Post by: burakkucat on July 09, 2015, 12:53:39 AM
I have a funny sort of tingle in my whiskers that during the next six months there will be a general exodus (of the more knowledgeable users) from Plusnet to other providers.  :( 
Title: Re: Plusnet have pulled their Performance/Usage Graphs
Post by: roseway on July 09, 2015, 08:04:13 AM
It's looking increasingly as though I'll be one of those, when my contract comes to an end.
Title: Re: Plusnet have pulled their Performance/Usage Graphs
Post by: simoncraddock on July 09, 2015, 10:46:15 AM
and it does update the vast majority of the time now

Clearly not true because I've had to contact them today about the wrong profile on my line, 10mbps below my true speed is artificial capping. How many unsuspecting customers will fall victim to the stupid profiling system they use?
Title: Re: Plusnet have pulled their Performance/Usage Graphs
Post by: Oldjim on July 09, 2015, 11:39:33 AM
as a very prolific poster and long term member over there unfortunately I can only agree with the comments by Chrysalis and I will not be renewing my LRS in December as there is no real saving and all it does is to give an effective lockin even when there are price rises
Title: Re: Plusnet have pulled their Performance/Usage Graphs
Post by: GigabitEthernet on July 09, 2015, 12:20:25 PM
I was with Plusnet before I switched to TalkTalk (that was at the end of 2013).

I remember the congestion issues starting just as I left, the forum staff becoming less and less useful in what they could do, the constant profile mismatching, the constant belittling of people complaining by long-time forum users who obviously had some issue with things going wrong...

I don't like TalkTalk at all from a support point of view but when the connection works, it just works.
Title: Re: Plusnet have pulled their Performance/Usage Graphs
Post by: 4candles on July 09, 2015, 01:47:29 PM
I have a funny sort of tingle in my whiskers that during the next six months there will be a general exodus (of the more knowledgeable users) from Plusnet to other providers.  :(

Ah, it's not just me then.
Title: Re: Plusnet have pulled their Performance/Usage Graphs
Post by: GigabitEthernet on July 09, 2015, 02:08:37 PM
But where will all these people go?
Title: Re: Plusnet have pulled their Performance/Usage Graphs
Post by: Ronski on July 09, 2015, 02:48:26 PM
I've been a PN customer since 2003, and I had to say when I got the email about the line rental increases the first thing I thought of was looking elsewhere for line rental, perhaps I should consider moving completely although at the moment I have no service issues, but it is worrying what's happening.
Title: Re: Plusnet have pulled their Performance/Usage Graphs
Post by: 4candles on July 09, 2015, 11:12:35 PM
...I have no service issues, but it is worrying what's happening.

Same here. I'll probably hang on until a fault occurs - and if it's not dealt with efficiently - it's MAC time.
Title: Re: Plusnet have pulled their Performance/Usage Graphs
Post by: burakkucat on July 10, 2015, 12:31:37 AM
<snip> - it's MAC time.

<Cough> (Another fur-ball!) MACs no longer exist. Ofcom kicked them into the great litter tray during the latter part of last month (June 2015).  :)
Title: Re: Plusnet have pulled their Performance/Usage Graphs
Post by: andy265 on July 11, 2015, 11:03:02 PM
I've been with Plusnet for a long time and at work we have about 300 users with them, but I don't like the way things seem to be heading.

I got the email last week about the phone price changes and they said I could leave without paying off my contract if I wanted to. I can the same services cheaper from TalkTalk so I've placed an order with them. Might be a mistake, I'll find out on the 23rd :)
Title: Re: Plusnet have pulled their Performance/Usage Graphs
Post by: tbailey2 on July 11, 2015, 11:17:53 PM
I've been with Plusnet for a long time and at work we have about 300 users with them, but I don't like the way things seem to be heading.

I got the email last week about the phone price changes and they said I could leave without paying off my contract if I wanted to. I can the same services cheaper from TalkTalk so I've placed an order with them. Might be a mistake, I'll find out on the 23rd :)

Do please post your findings, my Plusnet contract expires on 22nd August....
Title: Re: Plusnet have pulled their Performance/Usage Graphs
Post by: burakkucat on July 11, 2015, 11:24:19 PM
I got the email last week about the phone price changes and they said I could leave without paying off my contract if I wanted to. I can the same services cheaper from TalkTalk so I've placed an order with them. Might be a mistake, I'll find out on the 23rd :)

TT have supplied the telephony and broadband services to The Cattery for over eight years . . .

If I was a person feline who required support from his provider, TT would have been a bad choice.  :-X
Title: Re: Plusnet have pulled their Performance/Usage Graphs
Post by: kitz on July 11, 2015, 11:49:27 PM
Plusnet are doing something stupid right now.   My speeds were all over the place tonight.

(https://forum.kitz.co.uk/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.thinkbroadband.com%2Fspeedtest%2Fbutton%2F143665224408028959732.png&hash=6e3e6c4fd9648fc0fbffa71530b601d8) (http://www.thinkbroadband.com/speedtest/results.html?id=143665224408028959732)

I raised a ticket last Monday about being limited to 12-15Mbps on a single thread because I was having issues with general surfing and web-pages failing to completely load.
It took them 5 days to respond (until today) with the standard do a BTw speedtest are you using wifi etc.   I'd already answered these questions when I raised the ticket.    They also failed to see there was an issue because my httpx6 was fine  :'(
Title: Re: Plusnet have pulled their Performance/Usage Graphs
Post by: Chrysalis on July 12, 2015, 03:31:47 AM
for reference I never got an email about the price rises, its possible its because i have a migration pending but I think that shouldnt be a reason to not send it.
Title: Re: Plusnet have pulled their Performance/Usage Graphs
Post by: Weaver on July 12, 2015, 06:02:46 AM
@kitz - have you already checked to see if thereís a problem with Plusnetís DNS ? (by switching to Google or OpenDns temporarily)

I had this kind of problem a few times with different customers and itís sometime a factor even though there seems to be no rhyme or reason to it.
Title: Re: Plusnet have pulled their Performance/Usage Graphs
Post by: kitz on July 12, 2015, 12:10:29 PM
@Weaver, thanks for the suggestion.   I use google DNS.   

The 'congestion' issues have been running for a while and Plusnet were saying it wasnt them.   There is/was a possibility that if it wasnt their gateways, then it was part of the BTw core transit.   In view of the fact that RevK was also kicking up a fuss then it was a possibility that this is true.   The difference is PN has a lot more customers than AAISP so therefore a chance that more users would be noticing this.   I think what irked their users is how long it took PN to acknowledge there was an issue, their apparent lack of enthusiasm in tackling BTw and total lack of feedback to the EU's.


The past week though something different has been happening and I dont know what - its very strange and seems to affect single threads v multi-threading.  Information coming from Plusnet has been cryptic.    Its not just me thats been reporting strange speedtest results.    For example chrys and npr (http://community.plus.net/forum/index.php/topic,140851.msg1245172.html#msg1245172) also are seeing similar.

The only feedback weve had so far is this (http://community.plus.net/forum/index.php/topic,140851.msg1245723.html#msg1245723).

Title: Re: Plusnet have pulled their Performance/Usage Graphs
Post by: Chrysalis on July 12, 2015, 01:06:37 PM
also whats alarming for me kitz is bgn is the future at plusnet eventually they will ditch the non bgn gateways, yet every single bgn gateway always gives me peak time packet loss.

Sky migration in 4 days.

on tbb andrew published multi threaded speedtest results and suggested the problem at plusnet wasnt an issue, I (and others) asked for the single threaded results but he says he cannot publish them at the moment, I do see on the tbb blog they were published in 2014 tho, but he wont do it currently.

Also ignition posted on another forum that there is 2 known other issues inside the BTw network which by his estimation is affecting 10% of all BTw customers and he estimated it at around 90k plusnet customers affected.  So from my point of view BT/plusnet are sitting on their arses with 10% of their customers affected not treating it as an emergency, hence the migration.

Also remember this BTw access network was essentially built for plusnet and to comply with ofcom (it also serves many small resellers like aaisp), BT retail use a different network for their customers which I am pretty sure gets much more attention and investment from BT.
Title: Re: Plusnet have pulled their Performance/Usage Graphs
Post by: kitz on July 12, 2015, 01:18:48 PM
Quote
suggested the problem at plusnet wasnt an issue, I (and others) asked for the single threaded results

But it most certainly was for me.  The limitation of single thread to 12/15Mbps will affect streaming and http.    I hadnt done speedtests for ages, but I did so purely because I'd got home and found that general surfing wasnt working.   Pages werent downloading properly and were taking a while to load even sites.    It was only after I'd experienced the issue first hand that I went over to the PN forums to see why things were so slow.
Title: Re: Plusnet have pulled their Performance/Usage Graphs
Post by: loonylion on July 12, 2015, 01:41:54 PM
I just had no net when I powered my comp on. DSLStats said all was OK, SWE said ppp was connected with an uptime of 4 minutes (so clearly my ppp session had just been kicked by PN) but nothing worked, couldn't even ping google dns. so I dropped ppp and reconnected and mysteriously everything suddenly started working.  >:(
Title: Re: Plusnet have pulled their Performance/Usage Graphs
Post by: kitz on July 12, 2015, 01:49:13 PM
I had exactly the same issue on Monday night.    I had a PPP session and I'd been issued a Plusnet IP but my routing was going nowhere.
Because I use google DNS then I wasnt even able to do a proper tracert..  but I did manage to do the following by using the IP address for BBC

Code: [Select]
Tracing route to fmt-vip71.telhc.bbc.co.uk [212.58.244.20] over a maximum of 30 hops:

  1    <1 ms    <1 ms    <1 ms  192.168.1.1
  2    15 ms    13 ms    15 ms  195.166.128.183
  3     *        *        *     Request timed out.
  4     *        *        *     Request timed out.
  5     *        *        *     Request timed out.
  6     *        *        *     Request timed out.
  7     *        *        *     Request timed out.
  8  ^C

You can see everything stopped dead at 195.166.128.183 which is one of PNs gateways.   (pcl-ag02)
Title: Re: Plusnet have pulled their Performance/Usage Graphs
Post by: andy265 on July 12, 2015, 08:52:40 PM
Do please post your findings, my Plusnet contract expires on 22nd August....

Will do, the service is due to move over on the 23rd, so will see how it goes.
Title: Re: Plusnet have pulled their Performance/Usage Graphs
Post by: andy265 on July 12, 2015, 08:56:14 PM
If I was a person feline who required support from his provider, TT would have been a bad choice.  :-X
I've experienced their support having to speak to them on behalf of customers before, so I know what to expect there. I work in IT support so unless there is a fault with the service itself I should be OK :)
Title: Re: Plusnet have pulled their Performance/Usage Graphs
Post by: burakkucat on July 12, 2015, 09:43:23 PM
I've experienced their support having to speak to them on behalf of customers before, so I know what to expect there. I work in IT support so unless there is a fault with the service itself I should be OK :)

Purrfect!  :D
Title: Re: Plusnet have pulled their Performance/Usage Graphs
Post by: phi2008 on July 13, 2015, 01:50:58 AM
I've been a PN customer since 2003, and I had to say when I got the email about the line rental increases the first thing I thought of was looking elsewhere for line rental, perhaps I should consider moving completely although at the moment I have no service issues, but it is worrying what's happening.

If you are price sensitive it's hard to select a better ISP for the money. Cheap with UK support is an attractive combination. IIRC Plusnet will try to price match competitor ISPs before you leave them and SSE is offering 80/20 fibre for £12.5 broadband/£12 line rental over 2 years with 18 month minimum contract. If Plusnet retentions offered me the same over 18 months that would be quite attractive. 

It will be interesting to see how far Plusnet goes in chasing TalkTalk, if they ever reintroduced traffic shaping(like SSE?)  to maximise their network investment that would be a massively retrograde step.
Title: Re: Plusnet have pulled their Performance/Usage Graphs
Post by: Chrysalis on July 13, 2015, 04:50:01 AM
they already still have traffic shaping but they just removed the rate limiting part of it for unlimited customers, the prioritisation is still there.

Its that traffic shaping that is open to question at the moment as me and others suspected their shaper cpu's have become saturated.
Title: Re: Plusnet have pulled their Performance/Usage Graphs
Post by: phi2008 on July 13, 2015, 07:28:56 AM
By traffic shaping I meant rate limiting, not the basic prioritisation which is not noticeable by most people.   
Title: Re: Plusnet have pulled their Performance/Usage Graphs
Post by: Chrysalis on July 13, 2015, 05:13:37 PM
did a speedtest earlier and single threaded was a mess at 11.45am lol.
Title: Re: Plusnet have pulled their Performance/Usage Graphs
Post by: Chrysalis on July 16, 2015, 10:32:12 AM
migrated now, back to sub 10ms pings to london on easynet.

incidentally as it turns out my ac68 connected just fine to sky first time, not even the long pause people warned off.
Title: Re: Plusnet have pulled their Performance/Usage Graphs
Post by: Chrysalis on July 16, 2015, 09:02:11 PM
peak time test before going bed, note the upstream is lower due to QoS on my router.

(https://forum.kitz.co.uk/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.thinkbroadband.com%2Fspeedtest%2Fbutton%2F143708028126389578274.png&hash=dee3d6078b6db9a7c85fb0bd729204f3) (http://www.thinkbroadband.com/speedtest/results.html?id=143708028126389578274)
Title: Re: Plusnet have pulled their Performance/Usage Graphs
Post by: kitz on July 17, 2015, 11:31:20 AM
Excellent result chrys.   

Hope you posted that in the Plusnet thread  :-X
Title: Re: Plusnet have pulled their Performance/Usage Graphs
Post by: andy265 on July 23, 2015, 03:08:25 PM
I can the same services cheaper from TalkTalk so I've placed an order with them. Might be a mistake, I'll find out on the 23rd :)
Do please post your findings, my Plusnet contract expires on 22nd August....

All looks good so far. The router arrived a few days ago, I know I don't have to use it, but I thought it might as well try it to start with anyway as I am going to have their youview service too.

This morning my Plusnet broadband had already stopped working when I got up. I connected up the TT router and got a red internet light, I left it connected and went to work. At 11.40 I got an email saying I was now connected.

I've just got in for a late lunch break, a speedtest is slightly faster than I got with PN:

(https://forum.kitz.co.uk/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.speedtest.net%2Fresult%2F4526022579.png&hash=9db0a3280e0ff6b1d8d11e7d62bdb5ce)

When I first got connected up the router it was showing the downstream sync as something like 79650 and interleaved. At some point that has been changed, as I now have this:

Upstream line rate (kbit/s): 19999
Downstream line rate (kbit/s): 79999
Maximum upstream rate (kbit/s): 33164
Maximum downstream rate (kbit/s): 117360
Upstream noise safety coefficient (dB): 15.3
Downstream noise safety coefficient (dB): 11.5
Upstream interleave depth: 1
Downstream interleave depth: 1
Line standard: VDSL2
Upstream line attenuation (dB): 3.2
Downstream line attenuation (dB): 3.7
Upstream output power (dBm): -4.5
Downstream output power (dBm): 13.9
Channel type: Fast
DSL up-time: 0 days 3 hours 34 minutes 42 seconds
Title: Re: Plusnet have pulled their Performance/Usage Graphs
Post by: burakkucat on July 23, 2015, 03:36:58 PM
I've just got in for a late lunch break, a speedtest is slightly faster than I got with PN:

(https://forum.kitz.co.uk/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.speedtest.net%2Fresult%2F4526022579.png&hash=9db0a3280e0ff6b1d8d11e7d62bdb5ce)

When I first got connected up the router it was showing the downstream sync as something like 79650 and interleaved. At some point that has been changed, as I now have this:

Upstream line rate (kbit/s): 19999
Downstream line rate (kbit/s): 79999
Maximum upstream rate (kbit/s): 33164
Maximum downstream rate (kbit/s): 117360
Upstream noise safety coefficient (dB): 15.3
Downstream noise safety coefficient (dB): 11.5
Upstream interleave depth: 1
Downstream interleave depth: 1
Line standard: VDSL2
Upstream line attenuation (dB): 3.2
Downstream line attenuation (dB): 3.7
Upstream output power (dBm): -4.5
Downstream output power (dBm): 13.9
Channel type: Fast
DSL up-time: 0 days 3 hours 34 minutes 42 seconds

That is looking good, to me.  :)
Title: Re: Plusnet have pulled their Performance/Usage Graphs
Post by: NewtronStar on July 23, 2015, 06:22:38 PM
He's got a one millisecond ping  :silly: is that even possible are you pinging your own home server ?
Title: Re: Plusnet have pulled their Performance/Usage Graphs
Post by: andy265 on July 23, 2015, 07:07:58 PM
He's got a one millisecond ping  :silly: is that even possible are you pinging your own home server ?

It always seems to do that in Chrome, here's one from Safari, but that goes the other way.

(https://forum.kitz.co.uk/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.speedtest.net%2Fresult%2F4526582380.png&hash=dbbc8bb9b8c43959f848e7d2984e8753)

Here's an actual ping:

PING bbc.co.uk (212.58.244.18): 56 data bytes
64 bytes from 212.58.244.18: icmp_seq=0 ttl=54 time=7.453 ms
64 bytes from 212.58.244.18: icmp_seq=1 ttl=54 time=7.279 ms
64 bytes from 212.58.244.18: icmp_seq=2 ttl=54 time=11.737 ms
64 bytes from 212.58.244.18: icmp_seq=3 ttl=54 time=7.098 ms
64 bytes from 212.58.244.18: icmp_seq=4 ttl=54 time=7.138 ms
64 bytes from 212.58.244.18: icmp_seq=5 ttl=54 time=7.278 ms

That's lower than with PN, they averaged around 12ms with them.

I put my Billion 8800NL back for a bit to see the full line stats, and G.INP has been removed from my line.
Title: Re: Plusnet have pulled their Performance/Usage Graphs
Post by: burakkucat on July 23, 2015, 07:29:28 PM
He's got a one millisecond ping  :silly: is that even possible are you pinging your own home server ?

[off topic]
But I can achieve a 0.512 ms ping to my access point!

Code: [Select]
[Duo2 ~]$ ping -a -c 1 ap
PING AP (192.168.1.254) 56(84) bytes of data.
64 bytes from AP (192.168.1.254): icmp_seq=1 ttl=64 time=0.512 ms

--- AP ping statistics ---
1 packets transmitted, 1 received, 0% packet loss, time 0ms
rtt min/avg/max/mdev = 0.512/0.512/0.512/0.000 ms
[Duo2 ~]$

[/off topic]
Title: Re: Plusnet have pulled their Performance/Usage Graphs
Post by: GigabitEthernet on July 23, 2015, 09:44:47 PM
With G.INP enabled on my line on the upstream and downstream, interleaving has been significantly reduced to a depth of 2 and 4 respectively.

This has reduced my pings to under 10ms from the 30ms pings I was getting before.

FECs are still quite high (1000s per minute at nighttime) but I'm now registering extremely low CRCs/ES so that is good I suppose.
Title: Re: Plusnet have pulled their Performance/Usage Graphs
Post by: NewtronStar on July 23, 2015, 11:23:16 PM
This has reduced my pings to under 10ms from the 30ms pings I was getting before.

<off topic>

You are lucky Alec my pings decreased by 10ms after G.INP was introduced interleaved pings were 40ms so now it's 30ms to 25ms on a good day, but you must remember I am 325 miles from the core networks which are based in london.
Title: Re: Plusnet have pulled their Performance/Usage Graphs
Post by: jsamuel on July 25, 2015, 08:01:55 AM
Ping used to be 10ms, now it's over 40 :(
Also even though I paid for 40/20 my sync speed was 80/20 and I used to get near 80/20 on speedtest.net but since I've been testing different modems for running OpenWrt on, it's now 40/20. Not sure if this is DLM at work in some other way, or PNet has finally caught on.. or both.
Title: Re: Plusnet have pulled their Performance/Usage Graphs
Post by: Oldjim on July 25, 2015, 10:14:16 AM
Plusnet caught up as the 40/20 was ordered as 80/20 and rate limited to 40/20 using the Current Line Speed
Title: Re: Plusnet have pulled their Performance/Usage Graphs
Post by: GigabitEthernet on July 25, 2015, 10:16:15 AM
Plusnet caught up as the 40/20 was ordered as 80/20 and rate limited to 40/20 using the Current Line Speed

Ah so it would have been costing them more - that makes sense for them then.
Title: Re: Plusnet have pulled their Performance/Usage Graphs
Post by: jsamuel on July 25, 2015, 11:33:47 AM
Looking at DSLstats this morning, it does seem DLM has turned on interleaving.  :-X
Jeez.

Code: [Select]
DSLAM/MSAN type:        IFTN:0xd086 / v0xd086
Modem/router firmware:  AnnexA version - A2pv6C038m.d24j
DSL mode:                VDSL2 Profile 17a
Status:                  Showtime
Uptime:                  27 min 59 sec
Resyncs:                0 (since 25 Jul 2015 11:11:12)

Downstream Upstream
Line attenuation (dB):  9.6 0.0
Signal attenuation (dB): Not available on VDSL2
Connection speed (kbps): 73982 19000
SNR margin (dB):        9.9 9.4
Power (dBm):            12.5 -4.1
Interleave depth:        1174 548
INP:                    3.00 4.50
G.INP:                  Not enabled

RSCorr/RS (%):          0.0001 1.9058
RSUnCorr/RS (%):        0.0000 0.0000
ES/hour:                0 0

xdslcmd info --stats
xdslcmd: ADSL driver and PHY status
Status: Showtime
Retrain Reason: 0
Last initialization procedure status: 0
Max: Upstream rate = 22162 Kbps, Downstream rate = 105112 Kbps
Bearer: 0, Upstream rate = 19000 Kbps, Downstream rate = 73982 Kbps

Link Power State: L0
Mode: VDSL2 Annex B
VDSL2 Profile: Profile 17a
TPS-TC: PTM Mode(0x0)
Trellis: U:ON /D:ON
Line Status: No Defect
Training Status: Showtime
Down Up
SNR (dB): 9.9 9.3
Attn(dB): 9.6 0.0
Pwr(dBm): 12.5 -4.1
VDSL2 framing
Bearer 0
MSGc: 14 73
B: 48 26
M: 1 1
T: 61 5
R: 16 16
S: 0.0211 0.0450
L: 24672 7651
D: 1174 548
I: 65 43
N: 65 43
Counters
Bearer 0
OHF: 1114902 324325
OHFErr: 0 0
RS: 271848385 3483931
RSCorr: 224 63819
RSUnCorr: 0 0

Bearer 0
HEC: 0 0
OCD: 0 0
LCD: 0 0
Total Cells: 204688073 0
Data Cells: 1399482 0
Drop Cells: 0
Bit Errors: 0 0

ES: 0 317
SES: 0 100
UAS: 28 894126
AS: 1440

Bearer 0
INP: 3.00 4.50
INPRein: 0.00 0.00
delay: 6 6
PER: 1.29 4.45
OR: 123.96 141.79
AgR: 74106.09 19141.69

Bitswap: 26/26 0/0

Total time = 24 min 28 sec
FEC: 224 63819
CRC: 0 0
ES: 0 317
SES: 0 100
UAS: 28 894126
LOS: 0 0
LOF: 0 0
LOM: 0 0
Latest 15 minutes time = 9 min 28 sec
FEC: 190 135
CRC: 0 0
ES: 0 0
SES: 0 0
UAS: 0 0
LOS: 0 0
LOF: 0 0
LOM: 0 0
Previous 15 minutes time = 15 min 0 sec
FEC: 34 63684
CRC: 0 0
ES: 0 317
SES: 0 100
UAS: 28 894126
LOS: 0 0
LOF: 0 0
LOM: 0 0
Latest 1 day time = 24 min 28 sec
FEC: 224 63819
CRC: 0 0
ES: 0 317
SES: 0 100
UAS: 28 894126
LOS: 0 0
LOF: 0 0
LOM: 0 0
Previous 1 day time = 0 sec
FEC: 0 0
CRC: 0 0
ES: 0 0
SES: 0 0
UAS: 0 0
LOS: 0 0
LOF: 0 0
LOM: 0 0
Since Link time = 23 min 59 sec
FEC: 224 63819
CRC: 0 0
ES: 0 317
SES: 0 100
UAS: 0 894098
LOS: 0 0
LOF: 0 0
LOM: 0 0
#
Title: Re: Plusnet have pulled their Performance/Usage Graphs
Post by: Oldjim on July 25, 2015, 11:42:05 AM
That won't affect you unless you use the connection for gaming
This is one potentially undesirable side effect of running the line on 80/20 with a rate limit.
If it was 40/10 or 40/2 it is very likely that the line would have remained on fast path
Of course I may be talking rubbish  :-X
Title: Re: Plusnet have pulled their Performance/Usage Graphs
Post by: jsamuel on July 25, 2015, 11:52:52 AM
Plusnet caught up as the 40/20 was ordered as 80/20 and rate limited to 40/20 using the Current Line Speed

Indeed, the Current Line Speed has changed to 40. It took a while for me to find the link (I didn't notice you were a PN rep) I found you on their forum and saw the link in your sig  :)

A few days ago I did however change to the full 80/20, but that won't be active until after my next bill so it said (4th)
Title: Re: Plusnet have pulled their Performance/Usage Graphs
Post by: Oldjim on July 25, 2015, 11:55:05 AM
I am not and never have been a Plusnet rep
I was a moderator on the forums until earlier this year but I was still only a customer albeit a long standing one
Title: Re: Plusnet have pulled their Performance/Usage Graphs
Post by: Chrysalis on July 25, 2015, 12:20:43 PM
That won't affect you unless you use the connection for gaming
This is one potentially undesirable side effect of running the line on 80/20 with a rate limit.
If it was 40/10 or 40/2 it is very likely that the line would have remained on fast path
Of course I may be talking rubbish  :-X

no you not, so ironically a 40/10 line would be performing better for him.
Title: Re: Plusnet have pulled their Performance/Usage Graphs
Post by: jsamuel on July 25, 2015, 12:22:11 PM
Ah, sorry for that. I should never just assume  :-[
I've been a customer since 2013, before that I was with TalkTalk and been happy since. TT were a pain, they had no customer service. I just wish PN had control of DLM though (they say they don't) Am I right in saying they do have control over 3 profiles? Something I read here (https://www.openreach.co.uk/orpg/home/solutions/developersandarchitects/developersandarchitects/downloads/GEAFTTC4.pdf)
Title: Re: Plusnet have pulled their Performance/Usage Graphs
Post by: jsamuel on July 25, 2015, 12:24:10 PM
That won't affect you unless you use the connection for gaming
This is one potentially undesirable side effect of running the line on 80/20 with a rate limit.
If it was 40/10 or 40/2 it is very likely that the line would have remained on fast path
Of course I may be talking rubbish  :-X

I do sometimes play games, or game. BF4, every few months just to relieve myself.  :lol:
Title: Re: Plusnet have pulled their Performance/Usage Graphs
Post by: Oldjim on July 25, 2015, 12:29:21 PM
On fibre they can't control the DLM as it is all done a cab level
There are three settings but I can't remember what they are and the Plusnet identification is different to the BT Openreach identification
Title: Re: Plusnet have pulled their Performance/Usage Graphs
Post by: jsamuel on July 25, 2015, 12:33:58 PM
On looking PN's forum I came across this post. (http://community.plus.net/forum/index.php/topic,120141.msg1041264.html)
The only problem is I can't open a ticket, I just get their pretty basic Help Assistant thing.
Title: Re: Plusnet have pulled their Performance/Usage Graphs
Post by: Oldjim on July 25, 2015, 12:38:31 PM
That is because they have effectively removed the ticket system to limit tickets to the subjects shown here https://portal.plus.net/wizard/index.html so it needs to be via chat or phone call and non of the reps on those routes will have the slightest idea what you are talking about.
Your best bet is to start a thread on the Plusnet Forums
Title: Re: Plusnet have pulled their Performance/Usage Graphs
Post by: jsamuel on July 25, 2015, 12:50:57 PM
That is because they have effectively removed the ticket system to limit tickets to the subjects shown here https://portal.plus.net/wizard/index.html so it needs to be via chat or phone call and non of the reps on those routes will have the slightest idea what you are talking about.
Your best bet is to start a thread on the Plusnet Forums

 :silly:

Quote
info: at 12:47:47
Thank you for talking to us today - we'll be with you shortly.
All of our teams are currently helping other customers. There are 53 customers waiting before you. Thanks for your patience.
system: at 12:49:36
You are not currently connected to a member of the Plusnet Chat team.
Title: Re: Plusnet have pulled their Performance/Usage Graphs
Post by: Chrysalis on July 25, 2015, 02:59:32 PM
if thats for live chat is shocking.

never waited for more than a minute or two elsewhere.

what happened to the improvement for moving night staff? O_o is no improvement as I predicted.

Also as riz told me, sky "just works", I can reboot router or whatever without fear of having to hop to find good performance it "just works".
Title: Re: Plusnet have pulled their Performance/Usage Graphs
Post by: jsamuel on July 25, 2015, 04:23:13 PM
Yes that was their live chat, The person who eventually got to me 40mins+ later had the audacity to say if I'm not going to type they'll close it. I guess they expected me to watch paint dry. In the end she didn't have a clue and said Chris was mistaken by those DLM profiles and even when I showed her this link (https://www.openreach.co.uk/orpg/home/solutions/developersandarchitects/developersandarchitects/downloads/GEAFTTC4.pdf) she thought it was to do with ADSL, until I pointed out the name of the pdf. ::)

Oldjim was right, in the end she just told me to open a fault ticket and confessed it wasn't in her script.
Title: Re: Plusnet have pulled their Performance/Usage Graphs
Post by: jelv on July 25, 2015, 04:54:05 PM
I have a funny sort of tingle in my whiskers that during the next six months there will be a general exodus (of the more knowledgeable users) from Plusnet to other providers.  :(
I'm regretting ordering FTTC with Plusnet in April as I don't have my phone with them and so can't use the phone price increase to escape. I'm arguing that there have been detrimental changes (VoIP, support hours) and intend to go to ADR.
Title: Re: Plusnet have pulled their Performance/Usage Graphs
Post by: burakkucat on July 25, 2015, 06:12:32 PM
I'm regretting ordering FTTC with Plusnet in April as I don't have my phone with them and so can't use the phone price increase to escape.

That is unfortunate.  :(

Quote
I'm arguing that there have been detrimental changes (VoIP, support hours) and intend to go to ADR.

Hopefully you will keep us informed of how things develop?
Title: Re: Plusnet have pulled their Performance/Usage Graphs
Post by: Chrysalis on August 26, 2015, 12:30:29 PM
they have now stopped advertising "true unlimited"

This may indicate a incoming change.

http://community.plus.net/forum/index.php/topic,143163.new.html
Title: Re: Plusnet have pulled their Performance/Usage Graphs
Post by: AArdvark on August 26, 2015, 12:42:31 PM
Not good news.
I have nowhere else to go.
I cannot pay for the likes of AAISP as their usage caps/rates are too costly for me.

Sent from my LG-D855 using Tapatalk

Title: Re: Plusnet have pulled their Performance/Usage Graphs
Post by: jelv on August 26, 2015, 12:44:47 PM
Zen? They now have unlimited.
Title: Re: Plusnet have pulled their Performance/Usage Graphs
Post by: Chrysalis on August 26, 2015, 01:08:53 PM
pulse8 (uses talktalk business LLU)
zen (uses BTw or their own zen LLU depending on exchange)
sky (seems i am the only one here who can tolerate sky tho :) ) (sky LLU)
Title: Re: Plusnet have pulled their Performance/Usage Graphs
Post by: Weaver on August 26, 2015, 02:45:18 PM
AAISP usage charges are at

    http://aaisp.net/broadband-prices.html

(The table has changed _a lot_ recently btw.)

Upstream is free.

There are no caps, you just buy download as much as you want. It all depends on how much you want within office hours.

Title: Re: Plusnet have pulled their Performance/Usage Graphs
Post by: jelv on August 26, 2015, 07:38:02 PM
Quote from: http://aaisp.net/broadband-prices.html
The units based tariff is a pick and mix type tarrif - you may find Home::1 (http://aaisp.net/broadband-home1.html) or Office::1 (http://aaisp.net/broadband-office1.html) fits your needs.

If your monthly downloads are 100GB or less, Home::1 is the best option.
Title: Re: Plusnet have pulled their Performance/Usage Graphs
Post by: Weaver on August 26, 2015, 07:42:08 PM
A&A are still offering their 1 TB [!!] download for £3.90, if between the hours 02:00 to 06:00. I use this a lot.

If you are out at work all day then things get a whole lot cheaper, evenings and weekends are cheap rate compared to Mon-Fri 08:00 to 18:00.
Title: Re: Plusnet have pulled their Performance/Usage Graphs
Post by: jsamuel on August 26, 2015, 08:43:34 PM
I think A&A's prices are quite disgusting, and capped usage allowances.
Hello. 2005 called.
Sure, I'd understand if it wasn't using BTW and on its own network.

I'd only go down that road if I wanted some bondage [1] ;)

1. bonded lines. :lol:
Title: Re: Plusnet have pulled their Performance/Usage Graphs
Post by: Weaver on August 26, 2015, 10:05:26 PM
I think A&A's prices are quite disgusting, and capped usage allowances.

So I take it, not a fan!    ;D ;D

I don't work for A&A, I'm just a happy customer who demands an extremely fast (well, wilt-free) performance, free bondage, IPv6, static routed IPv4 address block for free (no NAT) and umpteen other good things that I won't bore people with as there's an existing happy-camper thread.

But I do approve of the charge-for-usage model and would be dismayed should A&A join the sheep and offer a supposed all-you-can-eat buffet, as it makes no logical sense. That's how they keep the network measurably congestion-free (and publish stats).

I also approve strongly of esteemed fellow kitizen jsamuel having a pop at them, as voices who are silent do no-one any good at all, and your comments about pricing might benefit me some day! :-)
Title: Re: Plusnet have pulled their Performance/Usage Graphs
Post by: jsamuel on August 26, 2015, 10:17:13 PM
I am sorry if I was a bit loud with my thoughts, I usually don't make the habit of throwing eggs.  :D
Of course, it does have its benefits. Native IPv6 and all the rest. There's very few ISPs that offer any of that, which is probably why it's so expensive as there's noone to compete with it.
Title: Re: Plusnet have pulled their Performance/Usage Graphs
Post by: Weaver on August 26, 2015, 10:44:53 PM
@jsamuel - I think A&A's pricing has much more to do with the need to keep performance compromise-free by buying lots of expensive bandwidth from BT, TalkTalk Wholesale and the transit providers. The reason I say this is because when you look at their tariff structure (unfortunately) they pass on per-byte costs from BT and TT straight through to the customer, as evidenced by the fact that 20CN costs twice as much as 21CN in office hours, plus comments from RevK, the boss of A&A, about what A&A have to pay out.

There are a number of free services, like static IPs that other ISPs charge you for. I simply asked for a bigger IPv4 address block and I got it, given justification for RIPE from the projected number of devices, and it was no charge and done within minutes. Unfortunately, now IPv4 space is running out / has run out completely (depending on how you look at it), they can't give out blocks of IPv4s any more and each user just gets one free static IPv4 plus huge amounts of IPv6 space (a /48 in my case !!).

But having staff who know far more about it than you do and who don't simply recite moronic crap from a script is bound to be something that costs. I used to tell myself that I didn't need customer service, which is not true unless you are incredibly lucky and never need anything changing or upgrading.

There are about a dozen IPv6 ISPs in the UK now, including a couple of the big boys who are finally getting there.
Title: Re: Plusnet have pulled their Performance/Usage Graphs
Post by: Weaver on August 26, 2015, 10:47:35 PM
@jsamuel  - and no offence was ever taken! No problems. ;D

As I said, I don't work for A&A, I'm just a customer.
Title: Re: Plusnet have pulled their Performance/Usage Graphs
Post by: Weaver on August 28, 2015, 07:18:58 AM
Btw A&A don't have usage caps. (Although I think you can set things up that way if you want to, which keeps you safe. I don't use the Home::1 or Office::1 offerings, so I'm not up to date, but I think, if memory serves, that you have a choice as to what happens when your usage passes your chosen threshold.)
Title: Re: Plusnet have pulled their Performance/Usage Graphs
Post by: mrpops2ko on August 28, 2015, 09:05:54 AM
Don't you find it a bit weird that upstream is free? I mean if you thrashed your upstream 24/7 you'd be able to do like 5TB a month (assuming you get the full 20mbit, short line etc, FTTC) - how come that is not metered and someones usage habits that are heavy upstream usage do not get penalised, yet someone who downloads similar figures would be faced with massive charges.
Title: Re: Plusnet have pulled their Performance/Usage Graphs
Post by: Weaver on August 28, 2015, 09:24:16 AM
It is a bit weird that upstream is free. BT must have their reasons, but I have no idea why.
Title: Re: Plusnet have pulled their Performance/Usage Graphs
Post by: roseway on August 28, 2015, 09:49:15 AM
I expect they make the assessment that almost nobody will have that much data to upload. It's easy to find hundreds of gigabytes to download (although goodness knows what people do with all that data) but why would most people want to upload vast amounts? And where would it come from?
Title: Re: Plusnet have pulled their Performance/Usage Graphs
Post by: GigabitEthernet on August 28, 2015, 10:28:09 AM
Cloud backups for instance.
Title: Re: Plusnet have pulled their Performance/Usage Graphs
Post by: Chrysalis on August 28, 2015, 01:20:22 PM
its free due to how they billed for their bandwidth, on percentile charging you pay for only the 'highest' of downstream and upstream usage not both.

So lets say e.g. your peak time demand is 310mbit/sec downstream and 26mbit/sec upstream, you are billed for the 310mbit/sec only.  That means your upstream has 284mbit/sec of available capacity that is free to use.

In datacentre's its often the opposite way, you can often get free downstream traffic.

This is also why aaisp are generous on their dusk hours units.  As that usage is free for them to provide.
Title: Re: Plusnet have pulled their Performance/Usage Graphs
Post by: Weaver on August 28, 2015, 03:11:10 PM
> is also why aaisp are generous on their dusk hours units.  As that usage is free for them to provide

And the AAISP offer is still on, 1 TB download for £3.90 between 02:00 and 06:00. I make as much usage of it as I can, downloading movies in the wee small hours. I will set Windows boxes to do Microsoft Update starting just after 02:00. Apple iOS devices have been set up so that automatic update is tuned off, in case it runs in the daytime, instead updates are done manually late at night.