Kitz Forum

Broadband Related => Router Monitoring Software => Topic started by: tbailey2 on June 22, 2015, 08:32:24 AM

Title: MyDSLWebStats - DLM Monitor
Post by: tbailey2 on June 22, 2015, 08:32:24 AM
NEW! AUTOMATIC DLM CALCULATOR

Many of you will have seen or noticed discussions about the Kitz DLM Calculator where you put in your ES and Retrain counts and it tells you how good or lousy your line is from the DLM's perspective. The data is used by the BT DLM system to categorise your line...

Since that data is already available to MDWS for all users, it seemed to make sense to try and automate it.
So, after a period of testing and developing in conjunction with Kitz, it's now available, at least in its initial state  :cool:


To learn more about what you are seeing, you need to visit this page:

http://www.kitz.co.uk/adsl/DLM.htm#DLM_categorising_the_line (http://www.kitz.co.uk/adsl/DLM.htm#DLM_categorising_the_line)

We have gone for a simple easy to digest visual display using a Traffic Light/LED display system covering a rolling 24 Hour period. This sits at the top left of every pane in MDWS as per the example below - except for users NOT in the UK time zone (and that includes several still running upload data in in GMT rather than BST). Hovering over either of the two traffic lights (there are 27 combinations of colours in our traffic lights!) will display more info about the line state.

(http://www.mydslwebstats.co.uk/images/mdws-dlm-display-ex4.jpg)

Most people will see a set of green lights indicating all is well.

Edit:
Since first posted, there is now another set of Traffic Lights! These are in the center of the group and are for MTBE UPSTREAM error seconds. The original at left now reads DOWNSTREAM. Criteria are the same for both directions.

(http://www.mydslwebstats.co.uk/images/mdws-dlm-display-ex5.jpg)

The left set is the Error Rate display (MTBE - Mean Time Between Errors [Errored Seconds])
The right set is the Retrain Count display (MTBR - Mean Time Between Retrains [Resync Count])

There are three Profiles listed, a set for WBC (ADSL) and another for  VDSL. Only one is ever active though, the hover help tells you which is normally chosen by an ISP. If it's possible, we'll also tell you on the last line which profile you are on currently, depending on what info is available and whether the profile used by your ISP is known.

The ES data used for the light displays is updated once an hour, although Resyncs affect the display in real time as that panel is updated once a minute anyway.

I suppose that basically, if you've got all Green lights then you have nothing much to worry about.

But if you have lots of Amber and Red lights then there are some problems depending on which lights are is set  but that is a separate discussion.

Here are some more examples:

(http://www.mydslwebstats.co.uk/images/mdws-dlm-display-ex3.jpg)
This is the Retrain display for the line above

(http://www.mydslwebstats.co.uk/images/mdws-dlm-display-ex2.jpg)
This is an ADLS2+ line with a few colours. As the profile used by most ISPs is Standard (the top light) then the line has errors and has sufficient errors to make it far less suitable for the other two profiles. There are no Retrains though in the past 24 hours.

I'm sure that if anyone has questions, those with more knowledge than I of the intricacies will answer them  ;)


Title: Re: MyDSLWebStats - DLM Monitor
Post by: ip75 on June 22, 2015, 11:13:48 AM
NEW! AUTOMATIC DLM CALCULATOR

This is a great feature. Any chance of showing traffic lights for upstream as well? That would be of particular interest to people who have had G.INP disabled on the upstream.
Title: Re: MyDSLWebStats - DLM Monitor
Post by: NewtronStar on June 22, 2015, 11:38:22 AM
Cheers tony i was wondering what those traffic were for  ;D

Here is my status 1 amber what does it meen ?

Title: Re: MyDSLWebStats - DLM Monitor
Post by: tbailey2 on June 22, 2015, 12:15:28 PM
@newt
Not a lot, you are almost certainly on the top profile so that bottom one is just saying that there might be a problem meeting the stable profile it represents. Possibly. Maybe. I really don't know, I just wrote the code, you'll have to wait for the expert to come along  ;)

Maybe we need an new dedicated thread that attempts to answer questions such as these related to the DLM Monitor rather than within this support thread for MDWS itself?
Title: Re: MyDSLWebStats - DLM Monitor
Post by: kitz on June 22, 2015, 03:07:44 PM
@ NS

afaik there arent any ISPs using the FTTC Stable profile, so you can ignore that one.  If you hover over the traffic lights, then it should give a brief explanation.   

If you are on an ISP with a known profile it will tell you - eg see the screen cap for mine its detected Im with Plusnet so therefore Speed.    We dont know which one EE uses so cant say.   If you can manage to get this info from your ISP then Im sure Tony would be more than happy to add it.
Title: Re: MyDSLWebStats - DLM Monitor
Post by: kitz on June 22, 2015, 03:18:49 PM
@IP75

Upstream is monitored for ErrSEcs by the DLM.   It is monitored separately and independently from downstream, but has the same MTBE triggers (http://www.kitz.co.uk/adsl/DLM.htm#DLM_categorising_the_line).  Its basically similar to Red, but ILQ calls it Crimson so indicate that its upstream rather than downstream which has caused the issue. - See ILQ status (http://www.kitz.co.uk/adsl/DLM.htm#DLM_profile_changes)

Both up and down have same process, if the upstream E/S exceeds the limit, then it will apply Interleaving/INP/G.INP

Quote
Maybe we need an new dedicated thread that attempts to answer questions such as these related to the DLM Monitor rather than within this support thread for MDWS itself?

Will do - I'll split the relevant posts off. :)  Done
Title: Re: MyDSLWebStats - DLM Monitor
Post by: NewtronStar on June 22, 2015, 05:05:47 PM
@ NS
We dont know which one EE uses so cant say.   If you can manage to get this info from your ISP then Im sure Tony would be more than happy to add it.

Should i ring them up and what should i ask them ?

Sorry mu ISP can only see the line speed and thats all  :-[
Title: Re: MyDSLWebStats - DLM Monitor
Post by: ip75 on June 22, 2015, 05:31:44 PM
Both up and down have same process, if the upstream E/S exceeds the limit, then it will apply Interleaving/INP/G.INP

OK, thanks. So it would make sense to have a MTBE traffic light for upstream? And obviously only one retrain traffic light since that will be the same for upstream and downstream.
Title: Re: MyDSLWebStats - DLM Monitor
Post by: pooclah on June 22, 2015, 07:22:58 PM
Wow what a great addition quick and easy to read, and upstream added already.  Many thanks
Title: Re: MyDSLWebStats - DLM Monitor
Post by: tbailey2 on June 22, 2015, 07:23:32 PM
Both up and down have same process, if the upstream E/S exceeds the limit, then it will apply Interleaving/INP/G.INP

OK, thanks. So it would make sense to have a MTBE traffic light for upstream? And obviously only one retrain traffic light since that will be the same for upstream and downstream.

It's now there as the second set of lights but haven't had a chance to check it out thoroughly yet. I can see some U/S ES on BE1s line in there on the MTBE UPSTREAM so it's probably okay.
Title: Re: MyDSLWebStats - DLM Monitor
Post by: ip75 on June 22, 2015, 07:54:49 PM
Brilliant, thanks! Looks to be working - my line is showing yellow upstream on stable.
Title: Re: MyDSLWebStats - DLM Monitor
Post by: NewtronStar on June 22, 2015, 10:04:35 PM
Well all my 3 X 3 traffic lights have turned green since 11:30am and i am not going to pretend that i understand the full workings into MTBR but they don't concern me unless there is an ongoing line fault and have fair idea into MTBE as this part relates to your errored seconds over 24 hours.

All i need to know is the errored second limit of all three profiles Down & UP

Speed 0/0
Standard 0/0
Stable 0/0
Title: Re: MyDSLWebStats - DLM Monitor
Post by: kitz on June 22, 2015, 10:05:37 PM
As long as the top 2 for you stay green or amber, then you're fine :)
Title: Re: MyDSLWebStats - DLM Monitor
Post by: Chrysalis on June 22, 2015, 10:10:02 PM
interesting so I checked my lights which as expected all are green.

However what caught my attention is the MTBE on my US which is 86400 (full day).

I then did a local stat run on modem stats, and my US has indeed settled down on the ES front, but there is one single ES logged during today which MDWS doesnt seem to have picked up, or will one single error still give a 86400 MTBE?

Also either my line has had a big improvement during today or is an error, check the slowdown on my total ES for the 22nd june.

Sadly the slowdown of DS ES is not correlated with local modem stats :(

Title: Re: MyDSLWebStats - DLM Monitor
Post by: kitzuser87430 on June 22, 2015, 10:45:29 PM
Tony

Something is up with error second plotting >2 days

See attached png.

Title: Re: MyDSLWebStats - DLM Monitor
Post by: tbailey2 on June 22, 2015, 11:45:44 PM
Something is up with error second plotting >2 days

Okay I can see what's gone wrong. It's fixed for tomorrow onwards and early tomorrow morning I'll regenerate the entries for what is currently today. It does also mean that the traffic lights are currently very optimistic until tomorrow...

Edit: Done (hopefully)....
Title: Re: MyDSLWebStats - DLM Monitor
Post by: tbailey2 on June 23, 2015, 06:57:41 AM
I then did a local stat run on modem stats, and my US has indeed settled down on the ES front, but there is one single ES logged during today which MDWS doesnt seem to have picked up, or will one single error still give a 86400 MTBE?

A count of 1 still gives 86400. So does a count of zero since the MTBE is total-secs-in-period/errors and total/zero does not compute so is converted to 1!

The ES totals for the 22nd are now correct as of a few minutes ago.

Title: Re: MyDSLWebStats - DLM Monitor
Post by: tbailey2 on June 23, 2015, 07:32:20 AM
All i need to know is the errored second limit of all three profiles Down & UP
Speed 0/0
Standard 0/0
Stable 0/0

Why? The whole idea was to distance you from having to bother. Plus there are three sets of limits for each profile (six if you count both directions even though up and down are the same), hence Green Amber and Red....

However, if you insist you should look in the original post at the top of this thread, as stated there is a link to the DLM page on Kitz where all the info you need is located. It also shows you how to categorise your line in the way BT do.
Title: Re: MyDSLWebStats - DLM Monitor
Post by: NewtronStar on June 23, 2015, 06:09:22 PM
All i need to know is the errored second limit of all three profiles Down & UP
Speed 0/0
Standard 0/0
Stable 0/0

Why?

Well if you know the ES limit for the profile your on then you can take action before the DLM does , I thought the standard allowed a line upto 2880 DS errored seconds during a 24 hour period but limit didn't seem to work for me as DLM took action at around 2000 ES's during a 24h period.
Title: Re: MyDSLWebStats - DLM Monitor
Post by: tbailey2 on June 23, 2015, 07:19:05 PM
Speed in excess of 2880 ES/Hr for action both up and down
Standard 1440
Stable 720
Title: Re: MyDSLWebStats - DLM Monitor
Post by: valleysboy on June 23, 2015, 07:33:57 PM
I just wanted to say a big thanks for this addition - I continue to be amazed at how much info you manage to pack in.

Now if only I knew what half of it means.... :)

(I'm working through the help files slowly)

Thanks again.
Title: Re: MyDSLWebStats - DLM Monitor
Post by: NewtronStar on June 23, 2015, 09:21:00 PM
Speed in excess of 2880 ES/Hr for action both up and down
Standard 1440
Stable 720

Many thanks Tony that confirms that my previous ISP BT had me set on Speed after line reset and the new ISP EE is set at standard no wonder the DLM changed the interleave depth from 17 to 571 the profile was changed.
Title: Re: MyDSLWebStats - DLM Monitor
Post by: tbailey2 on June 24, 2015, 01:15:20 PM
I've also added in the ES count to the hover help to save scrabbling for the calculator... :cool:
Title: Re: MyDSLWebStats - DLM Monitor
Post by: tbailey2 on June 24, 2015, 01:17:08 PM
I just wanted to say a big thanks for this addition - I continue to be amazed at how much info you manage to pack in.
Now if only I knew what half of it means.... :)
(I'm working through the help files slowly)
Thanks again.

Thanks! There are a LOT of lines of code, must count them sometime. Help is a bit out of date I'm afraid but I'll get to it eventually. If in doubt look here or the Change Log.
Title: Re: MyDSLWebStats - DLM Monitor
Post by: kitzuser87430 on June 24, 2015, 01:53:06 PM
Quote
The ES totals for the 22nd are now correct as of a few minutes ago.

Thanks Tony :)

Quote
ES count to the hover help

Any chance you can add the no off retrains to the MTBR counter just for my ocd.

Ian
Title: Re: MyDSLWebStats - DLM Monitor
Post by: tbailey2 on June 24, 2015, 09:06:40 PM
Added earlier today...
Title: Re: MyDSLWebStats - DLM Monitor
Post by: kitzuser87430 on June 25, 2015, 05:04:00 PM
 :yay: :dance: :clap:
Title: Re: MyDSLWebStats - DLM Monitor
Post by: kitz on June 26, 2015, 12:40:12 AM
 :thumbs:
Title: Re: MyDSLWebStats - DLM Monitor
Post by: NewtronStar on June 30, 2015, 11:30:48 AM
Replaced my MK3 SSFP with the Standard SSFP and tested for 24h and the standard DS profile went from green to amber, now back onto the MK3 SSFP it gone back to green.

I wouldnt have even noticed any changes if it was not for the DLM traffic lights  :cool:
Title: Re: MyDSLWebStats - DLM Monitor
Post by: Chrysalis on July 04, 2015, 04:30:06 AM
Tony some info regarding sky FTTC, but it might be preferable to wait for rizla to confirm as he seems the sky expert.

Default FTTC profile standard

Apparently pro customers can choose their profile (even on FTTC) which I will find out in 2 weeks I guess.
Title: Re: MyDSLWebStats - DLM Monitor
Post by: kitz on July 05, 2015, 11:50:08 AM
Default FTTC profile standard

Apparently pro customers can choose their profile (even on FTTC) which I will find out in 2 weeks I guess.

It does indeed appear that Standard is the norm, but they allow their unlimited fibre pro accounts to opt for Speed if they prefer.  - link (http://helpforum.sky.com/t5/Archived-Discussions/What-DLM-profile-do-sky-chose-for-their-FTTC/m-p/1931914/highlight/true#M700760).


In fact any ISP should be able to do this on a line basis anyhow, its just if the ISP is willing to co-operate and submit the change to Openreach.
Title: Re: MyDSLWebStats - DLM Monitor
Post by: Chrysalis on July 05, 2015, 09:41:08 PM
well sky have apparently been arguing with BTw for a year for remote control of the DLM profile which is why it isnt in the control panel yet.

Earlier this year they were doing manual requests to openreach to put people on speed (the ex BE support team calls it speedy tho).

However I am currently been told they changed the policy and will refuse my request until the remote system is up and running.

Of course I have told them I will be requesting it anyway after I am activated, I mean its not that hard for them to do the order for a profile change.

So i do expect my sync to drop on activation day for 2 reasons I guess.

1 - The order is a cease followed by a provide, thats how it works when migrating to a different GEA provider.
2 - Change of DLM profile.
Title: Re: MyDSLWebStats - DLM Monitor
Post by: kitz on July 06, 2015, 10:00:12 AM
A lot of the ISP's have been pressing BT for DLM control for a couple of years.  I think it was last year that PN had said that BT were looking into it.

I'm not quite sure how much it complicates things in that parts of the DLM system is owned by BTWholesale rather than Openreach and the ridiculous system whereby you have some ISPs purchasing a product from BTWholesale, which in part is provided by Openreach, which then relies on a system provided/owned by Wholesale.  ???

Yes the profile can be done by any ISP by submitting a request, from what I can gather that part isn't very hard because it is the about the only config change that is easily accessible.     I would definitely push them for it though since it says on their forum.
Title: Re: MyDSLWebStats - DLM Monitor
Post by: NewtronStar on July 13, 2015, 04:44:01 PM
Why don't they just stick us all on the Speed Profile as you have plenty of errored second headroom compared to Standard and that stable profile it wouldn,t take to much errors seconds for a DLM intervention, to me it seems a waist of a profile and what is the gain being on stable if you can get it ?
Title: Re: MyDSLWebStats - DLM Monitor
Post by: Chrysalis on July 13, 2015, 05:10:35 PM
well the dude who seems to know half of what he is doing is back from holiday now, the lass who was covering for him seemed clueless.  So will see what happens :)
Title: Re: MyDSLWebStats - DLM Monitor
Post by: tommy45 on July 13, 2015, 07:32:02 PM
The standard and stable profiles are overkill, hit as little as 80error secs upstream in a 24hr period and you are on an amber light, pathetic as this amount of error isn't service affecting , are BT OR or Wholesale really that dumb,?  the best thing they could do with DLM is allow ISP's to disable it where the EU requests that
Title: Re: MyDSLWebStats - DLM Monitor
Post by: Chrysalis on July 13, 2015, 09:56:44 PM
even if they did only isps like aaisp would disable it, sky and BT retail wouldnt for sure.
Title: Re: MyDSLWebStats - DLM Monitor
Post by: tommy45 on July 13, 2015, 10:22:13 PM
even if they did only isps like aaisp would disable it, sky and BT retail wouldnt for sure.
Because their support staff are next to useless ,but there's no way i would ever be a customer of either for BB
Title: Re: MyDSLWebStats - DLM Monitor
Post by: daveesh1 on July 14, 2015, 06:29:37 PM
Can somebody advise were the first coloum of lights are amber please
Title: Re: MyDSLWebStats - DLM Monitor
Post by: kitz on July 17, 2015, 12:06:46 PM
Amber means the DLM is happy with the profile it has you on.  Some lines may remain in amber status.   
Title: Re: MyDSLWebStats - DLM Monitor
Post by: daveesh1 on July 23, 2015, 08:00:52 AM
Can somebody please look at my stats please. I think i have an issue but bt say everything ok.
Title: Re: MyDSLWebStats - DLM Monitor
Post by: Dray on July 23, 2015, 09:29:05 AM
Lots of errors, lots of interleaving. Is your phone line noisy?
Title: Re: MyDSLWebStats - DLM Monitor
Post by: daveesh1 on July 23, 2015, 11:09:54 AM
No phone line clear no noise. Thus has only started over passed two weeks since a lot of work being carried out on cabinet. Spoke to bt last night but they will not send an engineer as there is no fault.
Title: Re: MyDSLWebStats - DLM Monitor
Post by: Dray on July 23, 2015, 12:04:48 PM
The interleaving seems to be dealing with it. What impact is it having for you?
Title: Re: MyDSLWebStats - DLM Monitor
Post by: daveesh1 on July 23, 2015, 12:54:06 PM
Just the errors increased ping and cant get a upload sync above 5 which used to sync around 7 - 7.5 download speed at the moment has not been effected much
Title: Re: MyDSLWebStats - DLM Monitor
Post by: Starman on August 01, 2015, 09:47:43 PM
My line is looking awesome again atm :(

Last few days having numerous re-syncs and noise on the line. Now waiting for PN to raise a fault - 2nd one this year, and 4th in 5 years.
Title: Re: MyDSLWebStats - DLM Monitor
Post by: NewtronStar on August 09, 2015, 06:03:24 PM
My line is looking awesome again atm :(

Last few days having numerous re-syncs and noise on the line. Now waiting for PN to raise a fault - 2nd one this year, and 4th in 5 years.

I have to say Starman you DS attenuation dB has been all over the place since the 29th of July from 18.1dB to 29.3dB that's a very clear fault on your line.