Kitz Forum
Broadband Related => Broadband Hardware => Topic started by: underzone on June 03, 2015, 10:08:40 PM
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Info here:
http://www.billion.uk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=3896 (http://www.billion.uk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=3896)
8800NL Link: http://www.billion.uk.com/forum/download/file.php?id=759 (http://www.billion.uk.com/forum/download/file.php?id=759)
8800AXL Link: http://www.billion.uk.com/forum/download/file.php?id=760 (http://www.billion.uk.com/forum/download/file.php?id=760)
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typical one week after I flashed.
thanks.
I am grabbing both incase they pull it so I can share if that happens. This firmware has a new dsl driver but for some odd reason its only for the AXL not the NL.
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I agree about dsl driver is for AXL and not NL. Seem unfair! ???
Why is the new firmware drop 1Meg on the upload speed test.
Before on stock old firmware:
(http://www.speedtest.net/result/4404871358.png) (http://www.speedtest.net/my-result/4404871358)
Now on new firmware:
(http://www.speedtest.net/result/4408395449.png) (http://www.speedtest.net/my-result/4408395449)
Not happy with upload drop 1Meg with new firmware. What has caused this?
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I have downgraded back to my old firmware 2.32d.dh14.afw and now waiting for the first 30 minutes before turn my router on. (because of DLM 30 minutes rule)
Hopefully it should resolved my upload speed back to normal at 17.8Meg!
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There are all sorts of reasons why actual transfer speeds vary from time to time. There's no reason to assume that the firmware change was responsible. What were the connection speeds before and after?
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There are all sorts of reasons why actual transfer speeds vary from time to time. There's no reason to assume that the firmware change was responsible. What were the connection speeds before and after?
connection speed was the same as before on old and new firmware. Same SNR, Same Line Attenuation, Same Sync Rate on both downstream and upstream on 79999K/20000K and same max line rate on 104000K/36000K.
adslmax DOWN
Since 04 Jun 2015 12:08 12.1 16.6 79999 20000 104779 36319 12.4 -0.4 0 0 11.5 0.0 0 0 0 0 0 0 16 8 46.00 47.00 0.00 0.00 UP: 0d 0h 36m DSW32 Plusnet Huawei
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Then it's very unlikely that the firmware change was responsible.
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The upload speed is now restored on old firmware!
(http://www.speedtest.net/result/4408545086.png) (http://www.speedtest.net/my-result/4408545086)
Something wrong with billion new firmware as I think they adjusted QoS Port Shaping etc on the upstream
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there is no change to the dsl driver max on the 2 firmwares.
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I ain't bother. I am happy with old firmware and stick with it. Because I am not having my upload speed drop of 1Meg off, no thanks.
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I get 17.xx on new firmware.
Also speedtest.net cannot even max out the upstream due to small send buffers, only the .nl ookla server could do it, but that server seems to be gone now.
TBB is a better tester.
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I test it via BT Wholesale and TBB with new firmware still on 16Meg on TBB and 15 Meg on BTw! :( The old firmware get nearly 18Meg now on BTw and 19Meg on TBB.
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fine for me but I am using it in bridge mode and you are using it in router mode.
I suggest max try again tomorrow and check the options, see if anything QoS related is turned on by default, this may then help others, instead of giving up so easy.
(http://www.thinkbroadband.com/speedtest/button/143342975136822827583.png) (http://www.thinkbroadband.com/speedtest/results.html?id=143342975136822827583)
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What is bridge mode? Does it mean it using VDSL modem only and connection to other router?
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What is bridge mode? Does it mean it using VDSL modem only and connection to other router?
Think it means to allow additional routers to connect to the network without conflicting with the DHCP/NAT server. Additional routers may extend the network's wireless range and/or enable additional wired connections for clients and devices.
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What is bridge mode? Does it mean it using VDSL modem only and connection to other router?
it turns it in to a simple modem, disabling all the routing, wifi, firewall etc features.
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max got it right.
Newt its more than what you said. Remember the hg612 is a router, but openreach configure it in bridge mode. Bridge mode is where it just passes through the packets and doesnt process them, so the router attached to the the bridge device is the endpoint not the bridge device.
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Depending upon who is asking and depth of reply required, I will often explain bridge mode as nothing more than converting the data structure from xDSL format to Ethernet format and, obviously, the converse. ;)
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max got it right.
Ah sure i didn't make words in the post it came from google search so Chry your gonna have to tell them they are wrong.
http://store.apple.com/us/question/answers/readonly/what-is-the-difference-between-bridge-mode-and-not-bridgemode/Q24KPTTA7PHXAT22P (http://store.apple.com/us/question/answers/readonly/what-is-the-difference-between-bridge-mode-and-not-bridgemode/Q24KPTTA7PHXAT22P)
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I am happy with what burakkucat has stated.
Newt some people seem to think simply disabling DHCP and NAT (dmz mode even) is a proper bridge mode, in my view it isnt.
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Newt some people seem to think simply disabling DHCP and NAT (dmz mode even) is a proper bridge mode, in my view it isnt.
Correct, it isn't. There's something else called half-bridge that is where the modem/router handles the authentication, but passes the external IP through to a LAN side device. My speedstream 4100 used to operate in this mode.
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I see in the my routers settings under Protocol you have three settings Bridging PPPOE and Routing at the moment my HG612 is the modem and using Ethernet as broadband type on brightbox2 it's set to PPPOE, the way it's setup is this a form of bridging ?
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As I understand it, you are using a HG612 and a BB2.
The HG612 is the modem, operating in pure bridge mode and converting data from/to VDSL2 to/from Ethernet formats.
The BB2 is operating in PPPoE mode and provides (in no particular order) a firewall, a DHCP server (NAT), a DNS server, a multiport switch, a WAP, a . . . (at this point my mind has gone blank!)
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I see in the my routers settings under Protocol you have three settings Bridging PPPOE and Routing at the moment my HG612 is the modem and using Ethernet as broadband type on brightbox2 it's set to PPPOE, the way it's setup is this a form of bridging ?
Sorry if I waffle on about things that people already know but -
All bridging is from a network perspective is binding 2 or more networks or links together that otherwise would not be connected such that they will then be able to see each other completely and be unaware of the method used to bridge them, i.e. the bridge should be completely transparent to both sides of the bridge.
For example on a server or PC with multiple network ports, you can bind 2 or more of them together to form a bridge, those ports combine together to effectively create a switch, anything connected on those ports be it an entire network or just a singular device will be able to see each other (as long as they on the same VLAN), also in this case a virtual port is created so that the host device bridging the ports has an actual IP address to connect onto the bridge also, this is needed of course because all the physical ports on the bridge lose there IP addresses etc.
A wireless bridge is like connecting 2 switches together with an ethernet cable but the cable in this case is replaced by wireless signal and switches replaced by 2 access points acting in bridge mode, in this scenario there is technically a bridge at each end, each one allowing the bridging of the ethernet connected network to the wireless network, in the access point itself the wireless part and the ethernet part are bound together just like in the server/pc situation above and also like above a virtual port is created for the device to allow remote management via IP etc.
For DSL modems a true bridge is when the dsl and ethernet parts of the network just like above can see each other transparently without being aware of the bridge between them, but just like above the opposite can be true and that bridge can be broken and some modems can be configured to act like routers, for example the HG612 normally acts as a bridged modem but can be configured with custom firmware to act as a router with dhcp and dns and even a firewall etc.
And just like above a DSL router if it has a true bridge mode will do the exact same thing as the modem does albeit in the case of multi port routers then effectively have a switch connected to the modem, which depending on your ISP and whether or not you have dynamically assigned single or multiple IP, single static IP or multiple static IP may nor may not render the switch part useless or not :P
The only difference between most of these modems and combined modem/routers is the amount of hardware/firmware/software features and how well they are programmed.
And definitely agree on the fact that disabling a few features is not making a bridge mode as no adapters are bound together in such scenario. It is worth pointing out that when you bridge a modem/router, things like DHCP, DNS, Firewall cannot work any more because all these features require an actual IP Address which bridged part does not have any more, hence why modems such as the HG612 have a separate LAN port with a separate IP Address assigned to it so that configuration changes and firmware update can be made etc.
Hope this helps some people, although I don't consider myself a true expert on networking, I have been working as an IT consultant for nearly 17 years now and I find if you know the definitions of most things you can usually figure out what it is actually supposed to do :P
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Thread seems to have been derailed just a tad to info about bridging ;)
I'm running 2.32e firmware as of yesterday and so far so good, I also had a 1mbps drop in upload from 17 to 16 but I'm not ready to put it down to firmware yet.
Aside from that it seems to be running smooth.
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Thread seems to have been derailed just a tad to info about bridging ;)
Ah yes, so it has! :D
I'm running 2.32e firmware as of yesterday and so far so good, . . .
Thank you for the positive report. :)
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Thread seems to have been derailed just a tad to info about bridging
It has a wee bit, but Im not going to move anything around, because that max asked a question that may (or may not) at the time have been relevant to the loss in upstream speed. Also mjgr33n post was informative and I found it easy to understand.
I'm running 2.32e firmware as of yesterday and so far so good, I also had a 1mbps drop in upload from 17 to 16 but I'm not ready to put it down to firmware yet.
This may be a red herring or it may be relevant, but upstream loss of circa 1Mbps is also rearing its head in relation to g.inp. Ive noticed this occur on several lines, for example if someone puts a HomeHub5B on after a Homehub5A.
Prior to g.inp some lines may have been able to consistently get 18.7Mbps (which is the theoretical max after overheads), but with the HH5B may only be able to get 17.5 Mbps.
If you are syncing at 20Mbps upstream then in theory you should be able to get just over 18.5 Mbps unless overhead is for some other reason such as DLM type intervention eg Error Correction.
Here's mine (no g.inp)
(http://www.thinkbroadband.com/speedtest/button/143393295312487521775.png) (http://www.thinkbroadband.com/speedtest/results.html?id=143393295312487521775)
(http://www.speedtest.net/result/4422075513.png) (http://www.speedtest.net/my-result/4422075513)
Ive mentioned this loss of 1Mbps several times in the past but no-one else seems to have picked up on it and with not being ginped myself, its not something I can look further into and not that many people seem to focus on their upstream speed. We see the sync at 20Mbps so assume that all is ok, but Im sure something else is going on with this.
Need to see more cases, but if this is happening, the fact that chrys is running in bridge mode could be relevant - because the DSLAM will be seeing a HG612 when it decides which profile to add. Why it should change if nothing has happened to the DSL driver though, because that doesnt make sense it should impact anything on the DLM side. ???
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I lost just under 1 Mbps when my G.INP profile changed on the 3rd June. This drop occurred when my US SNRM was a higher than normal 7.1 at the time, so the drop may well have been closer to 1 Mbps had the SNRM not been high.
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I am impressed you got full US speeds on speedtest.net kitz, I could only get it on the .nl ookla server (which is now gone) because all the others have too small send buffers to hit full rate.
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I am impressed you got full US speeds on speedtest.net kitz, I could only get it on the .nl ookla server (which is now gone) because all the others have too small send buffers to hit full rate.
At the risk of being a bit off-topic again. I usually do get full upstream most of the time - I tend to use the Maidenhead server - although I note that one says London.
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No G.INP on my line, just downstream interleaving causing the usual 8ms delay.
Kind of annoying considering I play online quite frequently so an even lower ping would be nice to have.
DSLAM/MSAN type: BDCM:0xa485 / v0xa485
Modem/router firmware: AnnexA version - A2pv6F039g1.d24m
DSL mode: VDSL2 Profile 17a
Status: Showtime
Uptime: 3 days 12 hours 5 min 7 sec
Resyncs: 0 (since 11 Jun 2015 15:05:04)
Downstream Upstream
Line attenuation (dB): 19.1 0.0
Signal attenuation (dB): Not monitored
Connection speed (kbps): 69723 20000
SNR margin (dB): 6.3 6.4
Power (dBm): 12.6 7.6
Interleave depth: 1365 1
INP: 3.00 0
G.INP: Not enabled
RSCorr/RS (%): 0.1898 0.3766
RSUnCorr/RS (%): 0.0004 0.0000
ES/hour: 1.73 12.1
Billion 8800NL w/dh65 Firmware before trying the HG612
(http://www.speedtest.net/result/4407324084.png)
Got my hands on the HG612 the next day and tried it
(http://www.speedtest.net/result/4408783320.png)
And now back on the 8800NL again with 2.32e Firmware
(http://www.speedtest.net/result/4425175996.png)
Also something I managed to observe is that before I switched to the HG612 and had my upload speed drop slightly, my ES were quite high on my download (in the thousands for 2-3 days). After having the HG612 on my line though and switching back the Billion the errors seem to have gone down quite significantly. (Not the FEC's though, still in the millions ;D) Hurry up G.INP
Since Link time = 3 days 12 hours 28 min 7 sec
FEC: 6787326 6342
CRC: 364 1516
ES: 110 1315
SES: 0 0
I'm not sure if the drop in upload was actually due to firmware or from me swapping out routers, I did leave over an hour gap between swapping them out. Gonna keep an eye on it though ???
EDIT: Just went through the Billion forums and another user has posted differences between 2.32e, dh65 and a HomeHub5, his post is more about the loss in download from HH5 to Billion but I couldn't help but notice his upload results from the different firmwares.
2.32e: http://www.thinkbroadband.com/speedtest/results.html?id=143362984377990330150
dh65: http://www.thinkbroadband.com/speedtest/results.html?id=143294137876852178099
DOUBLE EDIT: I've come to the conclusion that for me at least this seems to be something with the latest firmware trying to be conservative on the upload...Just gone back to dh65 firmware after an hour of being disconnected and behold, my upload has gone back up again! ;D
(http://www.speedtest.net/result/4425467465.png)
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I hate to be a spoily-sport, but I think that last one may be a tad more than it should be? I think thats one of the reasons why I prefer the TBB speed tester because you get to view the graph and can see performance over the whole test rather than perhaps a spike change things.
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Thankfully I thought ahead and did a test with the new firmware on TBB before downgrading, forgot to link them in my previous post though :P
Sure, the Speedtest results do spike on a majority of the test servers but even considering the spikes from SpeedTest, the drop of around 1Mbps is consistent on both speedtest and TBB :)
2.32e Firmware
(http://www.thinkbroadband.com/speedtest/button/143403669709958665574.png)
dh65 Firmware
(http://www.thinkbroadband.com/speedtest/button/143405543533807510104.png)
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speedtest.net definitely isnt the most reliable upload tester out there, due to the too small buffers.
Also as kitz said the last one is an impossible legit result.
For you guys saying the new billion firmware is slower in router mode you need to check what the default QOS settings are. Just downgrading again isnt helping anyone.
I just checked on my billion since I am on the new firmware and QOS page is blank. I dont have the lower upload speed but I suspect this is due to me using bridge mode, so I think we need to report it as a bug.
(http://www.thinkbroadband.com/speedtest/button/143405993539593491119.png) (http://www.thinkbroadband.com/speedtest/results.html?id=143405993539593491119)
If its deliberate it may be to combat buffer bloat, as asus rolled out adaptive qos on their routers which has been discovered setting upload limit to 90% of the connection speed, makes massive improvements on buffer bloat.
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It would be fairly easy (and informative) to check for bufferbloat, assuming that http://www.dslreports.com/speedtest (http://www.dslreports.com/speedtest) is accurate.
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yeah thats what people have been using, I can only get a C due to no qos on my router, its also possible plusnet's shaping pushes it up as well.
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Billion uk support has aware of new firmware with upload speed problem with the QoS setting page went blank (bug) as this might be the reason of 1 Meg drop on the upload.
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I can confirm I have also experienced the drop in upload speed since installing the new firmware in my 8800AXL.
The following figures are from MDWS:
On 21/04/15, the last but one time my link dropped unexpectedly, I was connected at Upstream rate = 16429 Kbps, Downstream rate = 55695 Kbps
I did the "upgrade" the weekend before last, my download stayed roughly the same, my upload went from 16429 to 15934 Kbps.
In the early hours of this morning my connection dropped, and changed to Upstream rate = 12912 Kbps, Downstream rate = 54494 Kbps.
I thought I would try a resynch around 14:00 today, so disconnected the internet and powered the router off for about 15-20 minutes
On restarting, my connection rates have dropped again, to Upstream rate = 12396 Kbps, Downstream rate = 54049 Kbps. The downstream is a bit lower, but that's a significant drop in the upstream.
I'll need to try reverting to the previous firmware, if I can find it. Does anyone have a link?
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your issue is different, the others is just a throughput issue, not the sync speed.
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I'll need to try reverting to the previous firmware, if I can find it. Does anyone have a link?
http://forum.kitz.co.uk/index.php/topic,15512.0.html (http://forum.kitz.co.uk/index.php/topic,15512.0.html)
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This firmware has a new dsl driver but for some odd reason its only for the AXL not the NL.
I may be mistaken but the current 8800NL 2.32e firmware from the usual support location has the 39g driver which I think is the same as the AXL. Strangely the releases notes say that it does not have that driver??? I have flashed it and it shows 39g and I will try it tomorrow.
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yeah its possible the axl previously had an older version?
if you have the axl please test as I am curious :)
I can confirm the nl has the same dsl driver as before as I am using the new firmware currently myself.
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I just have the NL, it meets all my needs. I think your right the AXL must have previously had an older dsl driver so it is not a case of the AXL leaving the NL behind but rather it catching up.
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Billion uk support has aware of new firmware with upload speed problem with the QoS setting page went blank (bug) as this might be the reason of 1 Meg drop on the upload.
I installed the new firmware last night and saw a 1-1.5 Meg upload speed drop. Messing about with the QoS setting page, firstly changing the 0's to the actual speeds (20000/80000), and then back to 0's again, I got back my full upload speed.
I measured the bufferbloat in both cases. With the lower upload speed I found the bufferbloat averaged at about 90ms (grade B). With the full speed, the bufferbloat went up to 300 or 400ms (grade C or D).
-- gyre --
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Billion uk support has aware of new firmware with upload speed problem with the QoS setting page went blank (bug) as this might be the reason of 1 Meg drop on the upload.
I installed the new firmware last night and saw a 1-1.5 Meg upload speed drop. Messing about with the QoS setting page, firstly changing the 0's to the actual speeds (20000/80000), and then back to 0's again, I got back my full upload speed.
I measured the bufferbloat in both cases. With the lower upload speed I found the bufferbloat averaged at about 90ms (grade B). With the full speed, the bufferbloat went up to 300 or 400ms (grade C or D).
-- gyre --
Can you post screenshot setting please
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Can you post screenshot setting please
I'm happy to... but of what in particular? The bufferbloat results? The QoS screens?
-- gyre --
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Can you post screenshot setting please
I'm happy to... but of what in particular? The bufferbloat results? The QoS screens?
-- gyre --
both please
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both please
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and the remaining 2.
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When I was fiddling with the QoS values last night... I do remember going onto the page that has the -1s and just hitting apply. If you're not seeing your full speed on upload, try that too :)
-- gyre --
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Thanks. Very interesting. That's why the upload drop 1Meg because of QoS setting need to added on 20000/80000 to get the upload speed to gain 1Meg back on. :)
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Actually, I wasn't overly clear in my description. When I set 20000/80000, I got the speed DROP. When I then changed it back to 0/0, I got the speed GAIN. :)
-- gyre --
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Sound like you are correct there gyre. What I did is changing on the QoS setting at 20000/80000 hit apply and then again changing back to 0/0 and hit apply and bingo the speed on the upload has lifted back up correct.
Please note: changing at QoS settings didn't resync the modem so it safer to do so. :)
(http://www.speedtest.net/result/4461358476.png) (http://www.speedtest.net/my-result/4461358476)
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seems like a bug to me given what you guys have reported. :)
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seems like a bug to me given what you guys have reported. :)
I was surprise Billion support never noticed this!
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My trial of 2.32e has ended with the 8800NL freezing after about 18 hours and not responding on LAN or WLAN. TBB pings also stopped, hard to say if remained in sync or not. Prior to that event it all looked good. I was running two instances of dslstats, one on a pi and one on the pc. The HG612 is always happy with two dslstats but i don't know if I have done that with the 8800NL before.
I will do some tests today with multiple telnet sessions but is anyone aware multiple session or other lockup issues with the 8800NL?
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I had several brief lock-ups last night, but wasn't sure whether it was the 8800NL or other parts of my network. I re-flashed back to an earlier version of the firmware but it got very confused about my configuration and wouldn't allow me to re-load my saved settings... got a bad image message. So I re-flashed back to 2.32e and I've not had a problem yet today.
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Hmm. It locked up for me after about 18 hours. I have tried up to 5 telnet sessions and a web session at the same time with no adverse effects so it does look like a simple one telnet session issue.
If you drop back a firmware you do need to do a factory reset then re set all your settings. The options differ between some images and each firmware version needs it own separate config file.
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When I flashed to the earlier release I tried to load the settings saved from the earlier release. That failed.
I suspect the router was in an odd state from after the flash.
The notes that say to reset to factory configuration when doing a firmware update are probably a good idea.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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Went back to earlier firmware as my Billion firmware 2.32e just freeze overnight. I couldn't logged in. I turn off Billion for 30 minutes then switched back on still freeze couldn't logged in. I cannot reflash it because it won't let me access the webpage http://192.168.1.254 (just a blank page) very strange odd. I switched off for another 30 minutes and press reset on the back router (pin hole) and switched back on, this time I can access the webpage and downgrade back to old firmware for now.
It's appear the new firmware got bugs problem with upstream slow (QoS) setting etc and freeze the router overnight.
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My trial of 2.32e has ended with the 8800NL freezing after about 18 hours and not responding on LAN or WLAN. TBB pings also stopped, hard to say if remained in sync or not. Prior to that event it all looked good. I was running two instances of dslstats, one on a pi and one on the pc. The HG612 is always happy with two dslstats but i don't know if I have done that with the 8800NL before.
I will do some tests today with multiple telnet sessions but is anyone aware multiple session or other lockup issues with the 8800NL?
my 8800nl had some kind of lockup with over 100 days uptime some weeks back, it did remain in sync confirmed by a test did by plusnet.
Bear in mind tho.
1 - I had a very long uptime and only ever seen this once.
2 - it was on the old firmware, it actually triggered me to update my firmware.
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I have dropped back to the previous firmware for a while. I had no issues with the previous firmware.
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With 2.32e, is anyone else still having the issue with regular ping spikes when the wireless is turned on? (I am!)
(http://i58.tinypic.com/xeud0.jpg)
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I did, but I am back to the HG612 at the moment.
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Thanks, it is good to know I'm not the only one.
I'm tempted to send the thing back as there always seems to be some niggle with it.
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I doubt whether the spikes are anything to bother about, it may only reflect ICMP priority in the 2.32e firmware. Apart from the 2.32e firmware I have found the device totally fault and niggle free. With 2.32e it was equally fine except that a lock out issue appeared, that lock out was unacceptable but the previous firmware was fine for me.
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les will you try the new firmware again? you seemed quick to abandon it.
Its ok here, but I am using device in bridge mode, my one single lockup was on the older firmware after 100+ days.
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Yes I plan to try it again, I was not too keen to do much testing as the as the dsl driver was the same as the previous version and that version was issue free for me. Curiosity is however slowly getting the better of me.
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I tried reverting to the previous firmware but got an error about it not being a valid file.
So, following the advice of others, I switched the QOS on and back off, and my upstream has gone up by 1Mb...
(http://www.thinkbroadband.com/speedtest/button/143587878830620976617.png) (http://www.thinkbroadband.com/speedtest/results.html?id=143587878830620976617)
(http://www.thinkbroadband.com/speedtest/button/143587888919366169715.png) (http://www.thinkbroadband.com/speedtest/results.html?id=143587888919366169715)
I think I can live with that for now, but will hang fire on future upgrades until I've checked out the feedback on here and on the Billion forum...
Oh, and ping has dropped from 40ms to 24ms, although a Command line ping is much more reliable as a diagnostic tool.
>ping www.google.co.uk
Pinging www.google.co.uk [216.58.210.3] with 32 bytes of data:
Reply from 216.58.210.3: bytes=32 time=22ms TTL=57
Reply from 216.58.210.3: bytes=32 time=22ms TTL=57
Reply from 216.58.210.3: bytes=32 time=22ms TTL=57
Reply from 216.58.210.3: bytes=32 time=22ms TTL=57
Ping statistics for 216.58.210.3:
Packets: Sent = 4, Received = 4, Lost = 0 (0% loss),
Approximate round trip times in milli-seconds:
Minimum = 22ms, Maximum = 22ms, Average = 22ms
(http://www.thinkbroadband.com/ping/share-thumb/8ba19cc7fd613cef23ba34092e2eeff1-02-07-2015.png) (http://www.thinkbroadband.com/ping/share/8ba19cc7fd613cef23ba34092e2eeff1-02-07-2015.html)
I do continue to have the ping spikes on my BQM, but I my experience hasn't been affected by it, so I can live with that as well... :cool:
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That 2 hrly spike may be nothing to do with the actual router.
Its something I sometimes see when using my Zyxel and Ive never been able to get to the bottom of it. Ive mentioned it a couple of times on here. It tends to be more obvious on some gateways than others and since it doesnt seem to affect anything performance wise I just ignore it now.