Kitz Forum
Broadband Related => Broadband Hardware => Topic started by: Ixel on April 07, 2015, 10:53:18 AM
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Admin Note:- Ive split discussion about G.INP compatible modems off from the main G.INP rollout discussion (http://forum.kitz.co.uk/index.php/topic,15283.0.html) to form its own thread here.
The ASUS DSL-AC68U apparently appears to be fine on G.INP, a few members have it on the overclockers forum. A bug however causes the OpMode to show blank at the moment (when G.INP is enabled), I haven't seen G.INP on mine yet (ECI cabinet here) but with the latest beta on the forum thread ESNP has fixed the stability issues for me and some others. Anyway, you might want to list that router as working with G.INP at the moment.
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Can't see it in the specs http://www.asus.com/uk/Networking/DSLAC68U/specifications/
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G.993.5 (Vectoring) is supported according to the specs.
If it is fully compliant with the standard it must be able to support G.988.4 (G.INP) as G.993.5 can support lines that use G.988.4 (G.INP)
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As it doesn't mention G.Inp I don't think it supports G.Inp.
They aren't standards, they are recommendations.
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The ASUS DSL-AC68U apparently appears to be fine on G.INP, a few members have it on the overclockers forum. A bug however causes the OpMode to show blank at the moment (when G.INP is enabled), I haven't seen G.INP on mine yet (ECI cabinet here) but with the latest beta on the forum thread ESNP has fixed the stability issues for me and some others. Anyway, you might want to list that router as working with G.INP at the moment.
Thanks Ixel, I did look but I couldnt see anything definite either way for the ASUS which is why I left it off both lists. Ive just been over to OC but I cant see any stats that indicate for sure that g.inp is working on them as it should. I came across a post where someone indicated theyve lost about 9Mb of sync, (not sure if that is related or not... or if it was suffering the same ECI symptoms). Its a veerrrrry long thread to read through, so I was only scanning.
If you want to point me to a post where it is clear that it is working, then Im happy to add it and the link :)
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As it doesn't mention G.Inp I don't think it supports G.Inp.
They aren't standards, they are recommendations.
Correct my bad 'recommendations'
It is confusing when a Standards Organisation issues recommendations. ;D
I see it as 'shades of grey' but fair comment.
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I did quote G.993.5 as per the spec for the Asus Router and quickly read the ITU published doc (Recommendation). I am sure that is unambiguous.
Send from LG G3 via Tapatalk (Typos & bad formatting are free)
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ASUS DSL-AC68U is supposed to support G.INP, see a screenshot of the DSL settings page here: http://i.imgur.com/5SkU5BL.png
Regarding G.INP posts on OcUK forum for this device, mjgr33n is the only member so far to indicate that he's on G.INP. Indications being that he previously had around 100 CRC errors per day and now he has none since the 'opmode' went blank. He's on a Huawei cabinet based on ATUCID, 'b5004244434da485', being BDCM. Opmode also going blank seems to be another indication to me that he's on G.INP.
http://forums.overclockers.co.uk/showpost.php?p=27855663&postcount=1774 and http://forums.overclockers.co.uk/showpost.php?p=27871896&postcount=1814 might help, his posts and statistics.
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Thanks for that Ixel. Because he is on such a short line then there isnt much in the way of proof which way or other he is affected by this.
If he's been put on the weird new profile his stats are so good that it may not show in his sync. Whats his latency like can you ask? I think I'd be more convinced if I knew that.
PS
I noticed him querying his upstream attenuation. At a guess it looks like the router may be displaying attention just from U0, rather than aggregated across all 3 upstream bands.
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I see here (http://wiki.openwrt.org/doc/hardware/soc/soc.lantiq/) there seem to be 2 SoCs, 1 for Fritzbox and 1 for HH5 A.
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I see here (http://wiki.openwrt.org/doc/hardware/soc/soc.lantiq/) there seem to be 2 SoCs, 1 for Fritzbox and 1 for HH5 A.
Very interesting - thank you for that. The TPlink TD-W9980 is definitely a VRX268, which lumps it in the same category as quote
TP-Link TD-W8970
Netgear VEVG2500
BT Home Hub 5 Type A
BT OpenReach VG3503J <---- These are the ECI/r modems
If someone has a login to the site, would they like to add the TD-W9980 in the relevant section.
Re the Fritzbox: The 7490 isn't specifically mentioned, but you are correct in that all the other Fritzboxes use the different SoC. I wonder how the Draytek Vigors are coping as they use the same SoC as the Fritzboxes. Both of these 2 makes of routers are far more expensive than the others.
this post was a good idea, as I suspect many only check the forums and not your main site.
Thank you, but in reality the main site gets faaarrrr more traffic than the forum.
Normally I would put such info on the main site, but the benefit of the forum is that people can add things & ask questions.... and its easier for me to reply or update info as it changes.
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is it a case of a firmware upgrade to enable g.inp on the incompatible modems listed as the firmware can only control the hardware and if the hardware lacks the capability then no firmware would be able get g.inp running
I dont know NS. Which is why I today emailed one of the software devs @ TP-Link asking if it is possible to do this as a f/w update.
At the time I wasn't aware of the SoC info that Dray had found which may account for why its possible on the Fritzboxes. I shall have to see what TP-Link come up with. If they arent able to do anything, then the TD-W9980 is a bit of a dead duck (& the others) :(
I emailed one of the software developers @ TP-Link today and ask if there's any chance that g.inp could be upgraded purely as software update.
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Modem Routers known to work with G.INP
BT HomeHub 5 Type B (BCM chipset & Software version V0.07.01.0235-BT)
Sky Hub SR102
Billion 8800NL
Billion 8800AXL
Zyxel VMG8324
Fritzbox vdsl routers* - 7490 is ok.
[snip]
*Unconfirmed if all models
I can happily confirm that the Fritz!Box 7390 plays very well with G.INP on a Huawei cabinet, sync is up a bit, interleaving latency is gone (so pings are some 15ms better than pre-G.INP). I have has 1 (ONE) upstream ES since G.INP went on my line a couple of weeks ago (without G.INP i'd expect quite a few)
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I can happily confirm that the Fritz!Box 7390 plays very well with G.INP on a Huawei cabinet, sync is up a bit, interleaving latency is gone (so pings are some 15ms better than pre-G.INP). I have has 1 (ONE) upstream ES since G.INP went on my line a couple of weeks ago (without G.INP i'd expect quite a few)
Thank you
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Basically, I was wondering if the claim to support vectoring was using some sort of marketing fudge where they say they can do it but not really.
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Basically, I was wondering if the claim to support vectoring was using some sort of marketing fudge where they say they can do it but not really.
If it will sync at more than 1kbps, a PPP session can be established and some data transferred, as far as marketing are concerned it's supported!
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@kitz: http://forums.overclockers.co.uk/showpost.php?p=27880939&postcount=1836 - ping stats and latest dsl stats.
Things that convince me G.INP is active on his line:
- Huawei cabinet
- FEC errors on downstream and upstream but there are no CRC errors at all, with interleaving depth as '1' (fastpath)
- Opmode is blank
- Ping
Let me know your thoughts. I can't get TC console stats, but if and when G.INP is active on my line (ECI cabinet) then I'll also share my findings, hopefully within the next couple of months.
I can't say what his original ping was though, but I've seen that some devices apparently have a few milliseconds increase on their average latency?
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@kitz: http://forums.overclockers.co.uk/showpost.php?p=27880939&postcount=1836 - ping stats and latest dsl stats.
Things that convince me G.INP is active on his line:
- Huawei cabinet
- FEC errors on downstream and upstream but there are no CRC errors at all, with interleaving depth as '1' (fastpath)
- Opmode is blank
- Ping
Let me know your thoughts. I can't get TC console stats, but if and when G.INP is active on my line (ECI cabinet) then I'll also share my findings, hopefully within the next couple of months.
I can't say what his original ping was though, but I've seen that some devices apparently have a few milliseconds increase on their average latency?
Thanks ixel... he posted his ping results which showed none of the symptoms of the increased latency applied by the DLM to the non compliant modems in that they tend to go up nearer to 20ms... so Im happy with that and Ive added it to the list.
PS did you mention the attenuation bug and U0 to him? Looks like its just pulling in attenuation from U0 rather than the aggregated total across all the upstream bands.
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@kitz: http://forums.overclockers.co.uk/showpost.php?p=27880939&postcount=1836 - ping stats and latest dsl stats.
Things that convince me G.INP is active on his line:
- Huawei cabinet
- FEC errors on downstream and upstream but there are no CRC errors at all, with interleaving depth as '1' (fastpath)
- Opmode is blank
- Ping
Let me know your thoughts. I can't get TC console stats, but if and when G.INP is active on my line (ECI cabinet) then I'll also share my findings, hopefully within the next couple of months.
I can't say what his original ping was though, but I've seen that some devices apparently have a few milliseconds increase on their average latency?
Thanks ixel... he posted his ping results which showed none of the symptoms of the increased latency applied by the DLM to the non compliant modems in that they tend to go up nearer to 20ms... so Im happy with that and Ive added it to the list.
PS did you mention the attenuation bug and U0 to him? Looks like its just pulling in attenuation from U0 rather than the aggregated total across all the upstream bands.
I'll pass that on, thanks :).
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@kitz: http://forums.overclockers.co.uk/showpost.php?p=27880939&postcount=1836 - ping stats and latest dsl stats.
Things that convince me G.INP is active on his line:
- Huawei cabinet
- FEC errors on downstream and upstream but there are no CRC errors at all, with interleaving depth as '1' (fastpath)
- Opmode is blank
- Ping
Let me know your thoughts. I can't get TC console stats, but if and when G.INP is active on my line (ECI cabinet) then I'll also share my findings, hopefully within the next couple of months.
I can't say what his original ping was though, but I've seen that some devices apparently have a few milliseconds increase on their average latency?
What is opmode?
DataRateDown=79998 kbps
DataRateUp=19999 kbps
I believe someone suggested that US rate of 20000 was synonoomommous with g.inp? All the upper g.inp enabled Huawei users on MDWS are sporting 79999/20000, unless my eyes deceive me.
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My BH5a gave me an 11ms ping on this line too. A modem that's been suggested does not support g.inp. If your line isn't bad enough for a DLM intervention, you could probably fly under the radar with a donkey modem for quite some time. Good luck if your cab gets a power cut and 80+ modems start training at the same time :D
Pretty sure FECs can occur regardless of fastpath/interleaving status too.
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I've not seen FEC on downstream on a HG612 when it's been fastpath on the downstream, only upstream.
Regarding 'opmode', it identifies the current type of connection, usually it would say 'Opmode=ITU G.993.2(VDSL2)', but appears to go blank when G.INP is present (a bug).
Regarding upstream being 19999Kbps, I think it depends purely on the modem chipset. In this case the ASUS on this connection hasn't been able to get the full 20000Kbps, though 1Kbps is hardly going to make much difference :P.
The person has had no CRC errors, yet appears to be on fastpath, in the uptime it has had so far (days). That concludes to me that G.INP must be active on his line.
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You're right, I was thinking of upstream FECs :D
I've seen some of your posts on the ECI stuff, looks quite interesting :)
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I've not seen FEC on downstream on a HG612 when it's been fastpath on the downstream, only upstream.
I have. See the attached pre-G.INP examples from my own connection.
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I believe someone suggested that US rate of 20000 was synonoomommous with g.inp?
Ive always sync'd at 20,000 upstream. Ive never paid much attention to the 79999, 79998 or 79987 etc as I thought it was perhaps just a quirk of the modem/dslam.
These are some of mine
79999 20000 HG612
79987 20000 Zyxel
80000 20000 TP-Link
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Looks like the Talk Talk Super router (Huawei HG635) works where the ECI modem fails according to this:
http://community.talktalk.co.uk/t5/Superpowered-Fibre-Broadband/Fibre-Large-Speed-Dropped-on-ECI-modem-due-to-Deployment-of-G/td-p/1641360
[Apologies if anyone read my previous post (now replaced with this one) here as I initially mis-read the linked post.]
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Modem Routers known to work with G.INP
BT HomeHub 5 Type B (BCM chipset & Software version V0.07.01.0235-BT)
Sky Hub SR102
Billion 8800NL
Billion 8800AXL
Zyxel VMG8324
Fritzbox vdsl routers* - 7390 & 7490 are ok.
ASUS DSL-AC68U
Please add to the modem that support G.INP are Netgear DGND3700v1 with firmware: 2015-02-08 as my friend got this and his G.INP was enabled with 79999k/20000k
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Looks like the Talk Talk Super router (Huawei HG635) works where the ECI modem fails according to this:
http://community.talktalk.co.uk/t5/Superpowered-Fibre-Broadband/Fibre-Large-Speed-Dropped-on-ECI-modem-due-to-Deployment-of-G/td-p/1641360
Added thank you.
Please add to the modem that support G.INP are Netgear DGND3700v1 with firmware: 2015-02-08
Added, thought it may as it contains same chip as the HG612. Thanks.
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Please add to the modem that support G.INP are Netgear DGND3700v1 with firmware: 2015-02-08
Added, thought it may as it contains same chip as the HG612. Thanks.
Kitz, you might want to bare in mind that the DGND3700V1 does not officially support VDSL. IIRC correctly there was a Beta version that supported VDSL, see here (http://community.plus.net/forum/index.php?topic=136375.0) for more info - actually I see you made the second post in that thread :-)
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Kitz, you might want to bare in mind that the DGND3700V1 does not officially support VDSL. IIRC correctly there was a Beta version that supported VDSL, see here (http://community.plus.net/forum/index.php?topic=136375.0) for more info - actually I see you made the second post in that thread :-)
The DGND3700v1 does support VDSL as it has built in modem with custom firmware. The v2 isn't support VDSL.
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Max, please read what I wrote again ;) A lot of people will not be aware it needs a custom firmware - this at the very least should be highlighted in the list.
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Point taken... I had listed it as follows
Netgear DGND3700v1 (Firmware: 2015-02-08)
but I will make it clearer by adding the link to where it can be downloaded :)
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Just seen this topic (http://community.plus.net/forum/index.php/topic,138730) on the Plusnet Community forums that suggests the latest ASUS DSL-AC68U firmware (3.0.0.4.378_5007 released 14/04/2015) causes a 10% drop in speed. Reverting to 3.0.0.4.376_2187 restored the 10%.
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Been advised to day (thanks Mark (http://forum.kitz.co.uk/index.php?action=profile;u=706)) that the Draytek Vigor 2850 series is experiencing the same problems as the ECI modems.
Draytek are working on the firmware but nothing concrete yet. Mark has promised to keep me updated if there is any progress.
I believe the chipset is a Metanoia † (http://forum.kitz.co.uk/index.php?topic=11470.0)
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What chipset is the HH3? And would it be compatable to G.INP ?
I'm asking because there is a guy on another forum who as just had fibre installed and they give him a HH3.
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The HH3 isn't a VDSL modem, so the chipset is kind of irrelevant in this case.
If he has a HH3 then he will also need an Openreach VDSL modem to be able to connect.
If he is a BT customer and has a brand new Infinity account then they should in theory send him a HH5. :(... otherwise he will have to use his HH3 as a router only and get a modem from the installing engineer.
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yeah for FTTC HH3 is just a router and as such has no affect on g.inp. Very odd for BT to give a HH3 to a FTTC customer.
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Probably a mistype. I think he's got a HH5.
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Ask him to check if its a HH5A or HH5B
He wants a HH5B for proper working G.INP.
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"proper", except the HH5B has it's own problems in addition.
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Does interleaving reduce sync?
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I've got a Draytek Vigor 2860 and can confirm it supports G.INP and vectoring. The vectoring boosted my downstream speed from 31 mps to 40 mps.
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Does interleaving reduce sync?
Yup the normal level used will knock around 10-12mbps off the ds sync rate and add 7-8ms of extra latency
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So much for the BT trials, just begs the question why was all this not picked up on sooner?
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Yup the normal level used will knock around 10-12mbps off the ds sync rate and add 7-8ms of extra latency
I think we should perhaps look at the effect of interleaving more in percentage terms.
When my connection had attainable rates of around 33 Mbps, interleaving depths of around 400 or so left me with sync speeds of around 30 Mbps.
More recently, with attainable rates of around 23Mbps, Interleaving left me with sync speeds of around 20.5 Mbps.
So for my connection, at lowish interleaving depths, the effect was a syncs speed reduction of around 10%.
With attainable rates of say 90 Mbps, 10% reduction would equate to a possible sync speed of around 81 Mbps, capped at 80 Mbps = 10 Mbps sync speed difference.
Higher interleaving depths than around 400 (say 1000 or so) would no doubt show a larger sync speed reduction?
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I've got a Draytek Vigor 2860 and can confirm it supports G.INP and vectoring. The vectoring boosted my downstream speed from 31 mps to 40 mps.
I presume that is with the beta f/w mentioned in the other thread?
http://forum.kitz.co.uk/index.php/topic,15283.msg284199.html#post_compatible
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The G.INP / Vectoring beta firmware (r48494)? No, I used the Firmware 3.7.8.1 For ADSL/VDSL lines with Vectoring.
I didn't know that draytek had posted G.inp compatable firmware. I may give it a try sometime tomorrow, though I am quite satisfied with the current firmware.
I was about the first on my cab to have VDSL almost exactly a year ago (cab 17, Maesteg exchange, Huawei cabs). The BT line checker said my max download would be 33mbs, so I was pleased to sync at the full 40mbs, with a max obtainable of 49mbs. Of course as more lines were activated for VDSL my speeds fell to about 31 mps.
The draytek with the vectoring firmware gives me the best speeds, I also have a unlocked with the latest firmware huawei 612 and a install engineer supplied ECI modem. The 612 only gives me between 28-30 mbs so the vectoring makes a big difference.
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Thanks for the reply. It seems strange because others had reported it wasnt working. I wonder if they are using the standard "Firmware 3.7.8.1 For ADSL/VDSL lines"?
I know that its not working either for other models (such as the 2850). I dont have a draytek login so cant read the info about g.inp at http://www.draytek.co.uk/support/guides/kb-dsl-ginp
I'll add a note to the other thread to say that it also appears to work with the Vectoring version. Thanks.
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Flashed the new G.INP firmware yesterday, looks good so far.
It increased my max obtainable downstream speed from 48-49mbs to 51-53 mbs, and my upstream from 7 mbs to 8.5 mbs. :)
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So your line performs better with the g.inp specific firmware :)
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As a BTW, BT are still shipping HH5A's - I've just checked and the one I received in the last 2 weeks is a HH5A (and the installing engineer mentioned I was the first on the cab).
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TP-Link Archer VR2600 supports G.INP according to the specs: http://uk.tp-link.com/products/details/cat-15_Archer-VR2600.html#specifications
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G.INP is also supported on the Netgear D7800 according to the user manual: https://i.imgur.com/TeMtzGp.png (https://i.imgur.com/TeMtzGp.png)
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Billion BiPAC 8900AX-2400 also G.INP compatible: https://i.imgur.com/qwpc91R.png (https://i.imgur.com/qwpc91R.png)
It appears that you can find whether or not the modem supports G.INP by looking in the user manual, usually listed under technical specifications or VDSL compliance.