Kitz Forum
Broadband Related => ISPs => Topic started by: tommy45 on April 12, 2015, 10:14:08 PM
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(https://forum.kitz.co.uk/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FU3BM1vJ.png&hash=6ec23a01f29adcdef2fcde0b3f059197484e06ff)
and the successive TAP3 result i.imgur.com/qOJQVw9.jpg (http://i.imgur.com/qOJQVw9.jpg)
That was after being subjected to base latency of 100ms on average since 4pm this afternoon i hopped gateways and got sub 10mbps throughput both single and multi threaded streams, plusnet should re brand to Jokenet
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Just for my sanity, would you resize the images (on the forum) so they're less massive? You can link to larger ones.
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woah... massive image alert that just shows a lot of white space :(
Best resize because Im struggling on a dual monitor set up. Gawd knows what it would be like if I was viewing on my ipad.
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my gaming is running at 18ms higher ping than usual on plusnet. In practical terms its insignificant, however its rock solid at 108ms usually so when my meter says something different I notice.
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Sorry about the size of the TAP3 test but the pos wouldn't display when i used the screen grab addon in FF so i had to do a screen grab on my pc using paint and then editing it, but unable to get rid of the white space,sorry i could just link to em though i suppose, Done BTW
I just wanted max exposure I want people to see just what has been going on ,As I'm sick of the plusnet lies and their pathetic fan club lying and trying to discourage proper open debate for them
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Sorry about the size of the TAP3 test but the pos wouldn't display when i used the screen grab addon in FF so i had to do a screen grab on my pc using paint and then editing it, but unable to get rid of the white space,sorry
You can hold ALT while pressing print screen to only grab the active window, and then in paint the right and bottom sides of the canvas (and bottom right corner) have grab handles to resize the canvas. they're not easy to see though.
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Sorry about the size of the TAP3 test but the pos wouldn't display when i used the screen grab addon in FF so i had to do a screen grab on my pc using paint and then editing it, but unable to get rid of the white space,sorry
You can hold ALT while pressing print screen to only grab the active window, and then in paint the right and bottom sides of the canvas (and bottom right corner) have grab handles to resize the canvas. they're not easy to see though.
well you learn something every day , i'll remember that,thanks (hopefully ) does this work in win xp sp3? next time i need to use ms paint
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Both images adjusted for size, etc.
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Unfortunately it isn't conclusive proof that it is Plusnet as there's several other places that could also show up the same symptoms.
From my own symptoms I would normally point the finger at Plusnets gateways but there are some users who can be ok on the same gateway and vice versa.. which leaves the endpoints and impossible for us to know which we are on.
The only other place that could change depending upon your PPPsession and which can change when you 'gateway hop' is the BTw MSILs. Obviously you will still connect at the same physical node location, but BTwholesale have a awful lots of MSILs at the node and which one you get on is pot lot. It will highly likely change if you are connecting to any of say the PCL/PTN/PTW etc gateways as it can depend on your gateway destination.
Im not attempting to stick up for them, just state facts. I wish I knew myself whether it was the PN gateways or the BTw MSILs
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Well the tap 3 is proof enough for me, as it excludes plusnets internal network does it not? if so then it has to be within their domain otherwise the whole point of BTW having such a test is fundamentally floored and is as much use as a chocolate fire-guard , not too dissimilar to plusnet's customer/tech support
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Yes and no. Tap3 is run on the BTw network and should be conclusive, but if you are unlucky enough then it is still possible even when doing a TAP 3 to go via different MSILs. The BTw speedtesters are based in a couple of locations irrc one of them is Manchester... and usually the one used for TAP3 (or at least used to be).
So if you are down south and doing a TAP3 to from say Devon to Manchester, then you are going to go via a totally different AP/MSIL than when connecting to Plusnet in London.
We dont expect the AP & MSILs to be congested at the nodes, but unfortunately some of them are atm as proved by AAISP :(
This is why the problems is so annoying because we cant seem to pinpoint it.
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PS noticed this
I'm sure that you ment a good endpoint on Gateway PTN-BNG01 As i was on that same gateway and had hrs of 100ms pings and below full wack throughput ,
I meant I'd been hoping on other pipes for 11 days and it was bad until I got on ptn-bng01. I'll expand on that.
- I'd had no problems for about 3 months, but work at the exchange/dslam dropped my sync.
- The next evening I experienced the slow speeds at peak again. I tried pipe hopping but got bored so left it.
- I left it like that for about 11 days because I hadnt really got time to mess and go gateway hopping, but for those 11 days I saw peak time slowness.
- After 11 days, I decided I'd try another hop. I landed here, and here I stay because all is good again.
bit late to do one now as peak is over, but I did a trace and speed test earlier when I got home and everything was perfectly fine and I was getting 74Mbps solid.
So we were both on the same gateway, yet getting very different results. :(
1 <1 ms <1 ms <1 ms 192.168.1.1
2 12 ms 11 ms 11 ms lo0.12.central12.ptn-bng01.plus.net [195.166.128.230]
3 12 ms 11 ms 11 ms irb.12.ptw-cr02.plus.net [84.93.249.34]
4 11 ms 11 ms 11 ms ae2.ptw-cr01.plus.net [195.166.129.4]
5 11 ms 11 ms 11 ms kingston-gw.thdo.bbc.co.uk [212.58.239.6]
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tommy, just a question.. do you ever get full whack at peak?
I know me and chrys say we see problems, but we do eventually manage to get on a decent gateway. I cant recall seeing you having had a good peak time speed.
My gut feeling says its most likely to be something to do with the PN set-up but I dont know what.. its difficult to prove because there are also some other possible places where it could be.
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Sorry about the size of the TAP3 test but the pos wouldn't display when i used the screen grab addon in FF so i had to do a screen grab on my pc using paint and then editing it, but unable to get rid of the white space,sorry
You can hold ALT while pressing print screen to only grab the active window, and then in paint the right and bottom sides of the canvas (and bottom right corner) have grab handles to resize the canvas. they're not easy to see though.
well you learn something every day , i'll remember that,thanks (hopefully ) does this work in win xp sp3? next time i need to use ms paint
works in all windows versions since 98 (maybe even earlier)
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tommy, just a question.. do you ever get full whack at peak?
I have had yes but it has never lasted more than 1 month, today as in from 3:30-4:00pm i had nearly full whack throughput even though the latency was through the roof for a short period of time,
I know me and chrys say we see problems, but we do eventually manage to get on a decent gateway. I cant recall seeing you having had a good peak time speed.
Yes again in the past i have successfully hopped onto a good endpoint after gateway hopping, but sometimes more often than not it has remained good for a short time ,days or a couple of weeks, due to plusnet sometimes changing routing ect around, even dropping me from a good enpoint onto a crap one
My gut feeling says its most likely to be something to do with the PN set-up but I dont know what.. its difficult to prove because there are also some other possible places where it could be.
http://i.imgur.com/p11WOsJ.png (http://i.imgur.com/p11WOsJ.png)
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wooooooah nice graph - not ;(
btw - edited my typo guy = gut
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I wonder if its possible that the available endpoints is not fully dynamic, e.g. 25% of endpoints might be available to one of 4 customer groups.
As I noticed I tend to have a 95% chance of a BNG and 5% change of ag01 or ag03 with 0% change of any of the other ag's. Yet there was a guy who said he couldnt get of ag06 no matter how much he hopped. Really bizzare. This may also possibly explin why a few people say they havent been seeing any issues. A bit like how VM segregated their customers into different nodes and one node could have immaculate performance and another be totally overloaded.
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PN admitted they have issues in the other thread. Is proving they have issues still necessary? :)
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no, but I am hoping the issues they admitted is the only issues to deal with.
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I think it is, as until very recently they had been adamant that it wasn't their fault blah, blah, blah, and even this latest admission doesn't really cover what a lot of us have been complaining about for several months now, this isn't something that has only been ongoing for less than a week therefore they IMO haven't admitted to anything really
So yes exposing them for what they are does matter, why should they walk away unscathed so to speak, after telling us porkies?
And not to mention they have failed in a catastrophic way every customer who has been seeing these problems for months by doing absolutely ZERO about the issues
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plusnet have now posted the huge latency increases yesterday were down to BTw manchester.
so is 2 issues. possibly also more that we dont know about.
This BT manchester issue has dragged on apparently since christmas, its unreal its still ongoing now.
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plusnet have now posted the huge latency increases yesterday were down to BTw manchester.
so is 2 issues. possibly also more that we dont know about.
This BT manchester issue has dragged on apparently since christmas, its unreal its still ongoing now.
Blaming it on BTW's Bras's at M'cr as there are 13 of them affected apparently isn't cutting the mustard for me
I after all got a higher throughput once connected to BTW's network than i did when connecting to Plusnet's network TAP3
Lets not forget Plusnets issues with latency and capacity have been ongoing for a lot longer than this BTW bras issue
They are using this BTW issue to their advantage or will soon do that,(IMO) and Statements it was our busiest day yesterday yesterday ever, Well that's quite possible seeing as they have never had as many customers as they now have Obviously someone made a big mistake when guesstimating how much capacity they would need , or the bean counters wouldn't auth the expenditure, so it got scaled back hence the issues every time their customers base actually uses their connections en mass , plusnets internal networking cannot cope
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plusnet have now posted the huge latency increases yesterday were down to BTw manchester.
Yes indeed on this BT line Manchester is giving me higher pings in the evening times, I could do 10 gateway hops and land on Manchester 9 out of 10 times bizarre but it's true ???
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(https://forum.kitz.co.uk/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.thinkbroadband.com%2Fspeedtest%2Fbutton%2F142895837188993073496.png&hash=f07b343c71b9c5d80cabc9495855b23ec5c0e00a) says it all really plusnet are full of ....
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Hi
Not much of a help but I left PlusNet because of congestion issues and the annoyance of having to know the in's and out's of their gateways to hop around them, that was years ago before FTTC! Nothing has changed in all this time.
It seems to be a cycle, it's okay for a bit, probably because of a combination of a bad spell causing customers to leave at the same time they try and tweak the platform and add more capacity in desperation to dampen the complaints on social media sites, so it works for a bit until the next 6 months half price promotion. :(
It is PlusNet's model, they run to full capacity and then some, so it takes very little change in usage for it to all start falling down, how else are they so cheap?
I'm with Xilo now, it is around 3 times the price PlusNet charge for FTTC, however for that I'm getting a service 100 times better, never slows down even at peak times and nothing is traffic shaped, no gold or platinum queues or other such concepts, just everything at full line speed. I wouldn't expect that service at PlusNet rates, they just can't do it.
Regards
Phil
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Whilst you may have a point, it doesnt excuse it, plusnet make claims that they wont be the bottleneck and their product pages show the unlimited product should run at line speed 24/7.
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Where does it say that you should get full line speed 24/7?
All I could find (in the legal bit at the bottom) was
"† Fibre broadband speed is described as 'up to' because your actual download speeds will vary. We'll give you the best download speed available on your line up to 76Mb for Unlimited Fibre Extra and up to 38Mb on Unlimited Fibre, and upload speed up to 19.5Mb. This is dependent on your location, phone line, home wiring and time of day. We'll provide you with a speed estimate when you check availability of our products. Find out why speeds vary."
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http://www.plus.net/support/broadband/speed_guide/broadband_speeds.shtml
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For older products, that's the page where Plusnet list the set rate limits that apply for certain types of traffic at certain times. I think it's supposed to mean that there aren't any set rate limits on the current Unlimited product, rather than suggesting you should get full line speed 24/7. The page also says you may see lower speeds when the network is busy.
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Hi
Whilst you may have a point, it doesnt excuse it, plusnet make claims that they wont be the bottleneck and their product pages show the unlimited product should run at line speed 24/7.
I understand exactly what you mean, I was the same years ago, joined in on the complaints in the hope they would pull it around but at some point the cycle repeated itself so often I realised it's all marketing and PR with PlusNet. Just look at the website to see what they are about.
It's like booking on a certain Irish budget airline, you don't expect to ever pay the advertised price and the best people hope for is to arrive at an airport that doesn't involve 2 border crossings to get to the country you thought was your direct destination! People put up with it because it's cheap.
PlusNet are also not the first or the last company to make exaggerated claims about their product, PlusNet have been doing it for years, but people know it's cheap and tolerate all the messing around by and large in the same way people will go to the cheapest budget airline. When PlusNet works good everyone is happy at paying a few quid a month for what seems like no contention full line speed service, but that really is only ever going to be the exception with them.
Like I said, PlusNet has always run in cycles like this, it's been the same for years, it will get better, then will fall down again after a few months and the cycle of complaints repeat.
Regards
Phil
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A few years ago Plusnet were trying to tell people that unlimited broadband was impossible just like unlimited gas and electricity (https://community.plus.net/forum/index.php/topic,108679.msg929789.html#msg929789) - not that long after they had stopped selling the 2009 Unlimited product. And trying to convince people that some hidden small print fair usage policy of nameless other ISP was somehow worse than racking up a huge bill at £5 per 5GB in excess usage charges.
Of course since then unlimited broadband from Plusnet became possible again, unlike unlimited gas and electricity. These days the Plusnet forums seem to be mostly about blaming pretty much anything and everything on Openreach and/or BTWholesale.
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Hi
.... to be mostly about blaming pretty much anything and everything on Openreach and/or BTWholesale.
I think they've been there before with that game. Openreach and BTWholesale are providing pretty much all the FTTC connections across the UK, yet it's only PlusNet having these issues, funny that.
Regards
Phil
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[quote
I think they've been there before with that game. Openreach and BTWholesale are providing pretty much all the FTTC connections across the UK, yet it's only PlusNet having these issues, funny that.
[/quote]Might it be that PN has, writer excluded ;), a higher number of historic knowledgeable users, who are more aware than those who use other mass market providers. I wager that many of their users would not know that something was amiss until complete failure.
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I wager that many of their users would not know that something was amiss until complete failure.
I've not said anything because mines been like this for the past few weeks.
(https://forum.kitz.co.uk/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.thinkbroadband.com%2Fspeedtest%2Fbutton%2F14296461988845465495.png&hash=edd26524e31d875821141747452a5ae4067268c9) (http://www.thinkbroadband.com/speedtest/results.html?id=14296461988845465495)
I'm not denying there are some rubbish gateways, because I've experienced them. But for now all is good here.
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same here kitz (https://forum.kitz.co.uk/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.thinkbroadband.com%2Fspeedtest%2Fbutton%2F142964874522615251411.png&hash=597997c4d042605b4c10f90e594e5e4abe6a4262) (http://www.thinkbroadband.com/speedtest/results.html?id=142964874522615251411)
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Endpoints from gateways, yes there are where a lot of them a week or so ago that where running to hot maybe there are still some today,
But apart from Saturday night i have had a disrupted service every night, If you are fortunate enough to find a endpoint that isn't running at or near it's capacity and more so remains in that state for weeks then you have been lucky is all i can say
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tommy as kitz said your issue is not quite the same as you are affected by the manchester issues whilst we are not.
I expect kitz has stayed on the good endpoint like I have.
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Well not any more as the btw Manchester bras issue is reported to be fixed as of last night according to A&A status page
Nice of plusnet to update their customer base as per usual,goes to show how important customers are to them, or not as the case would appear to be,
But i'm still seeing peak time throughput issues and getting some jitter on my ping monitor
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Well the BTW issue in Mcr seems to be sorted out now, no more massive hikes in latency during peak times, throughput has been better, but not 100%, Then around 1hr ago I was kicked from the Gateway/endpoint i have been on for just over a week, onto another it was a BNG and it has or the endpoint that i was on has some serious capacity issues
(https://forum.kitz.co.uk/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.thinkbroadband.com%2Fspeedtest%2Fbutton%2F143013350879090158475.png&hash=fe9bff61d305e7a6be8fbfc573c67a55298e34b2)
(https://forum.kitz.co.uk/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.speedtest.net%2Fresult%2F4319923064.png&hash=92b6c39d20fa86eb687abf319c4acdd1b58539c6)
Why so plusnot do this to people? do they really like p ing us off ? A network with no issues eh? I did after repeatedly connect to a gateway/endpoint that had normal low 12ms latency and near normal throughput, tonight i guess i will find that i'm on a over utilised endpoint once again no doubt because some cretin at plusnot threw their rattle out the pram balancing the network