Kitz Forum

Computer Software => Windows Vista => Topic started by: paul-49 on February 09, 2008, 08:51:39 AM

Title: Running with vista
Post by: paul-49 on February 09, 2008, 08:51:39 AM
Since my last post vista or xp. I am now running with vista for now, to be honest, its just like xp with more fancy stuff added, one thing that I wonder about is the lack of drivers to be had, my graphics card is still not right(it only at 1024x678)with xp it was 1280x980(or something like that) and it look right on the screen,
1024x678 does not look right on a 19" widescreen monitor

the HP scanner still does not work, and the epson printer is working but will not show the ink monitor(so not sure how much ink is left) I am going to get a new graphics card today(to hopfully fix the 1024x678 issue,only running the onboard graphics card which was fine in XP)
If someone asked me today, which one XP or vista, I would have to say XP everytime

Paul  ;)
Title: Re: Running with vista
Post by: UncleUB on February 09, 2008, 09:01:06 AM
Have you tried going on the relevant websites and seeing if there are drivers for vista to download.I had to do this for my HP photoprinter,and my logitec k/b and mouse.
Title: Re: Running with vista
Post by: soms on February 09, 2008, 10:21:30 AM
Yes I also reloaded the Vista DVD which came with the PC... not sure if is was worth the effort yet.

My main problem is with performance. Vista seems to run lots of background tasks which chew up the hard drive bringing anything else to a grinding halt. It is also a lot slower off the mark than XP, but once running and idle, the performance is very good.

I am running it using the Windows Classic theme as it is the only way I can stand to use it. I really don't like the Aero or Aero basic interfaces, espcailly on my 15" 1024x768 monitor.

I also managed to make Vista blue screen - the way I achieved this way to install ZoneAlarm Pro firewall whilst I was streaming music over the network in iTunes.  :lol:

I do quite like the new security changes though, so now you dont have the downsides of running as a standard user or the risks of running as an administrator all the time.
Title: Re: Running with vista
Post by: oldfogy on February 09, 2008, 12:42:31 PM
A word of caution to anyone thinking of buying a new PC then replacing Vista with XP.
XP drivers are not available for some on-board or PCI cards.

So you may need to bare that in mind, also check how many PCI/PCI express slots are fitted, only on some/most new mainboards there are not very may, "2 or 3 only"

*************************************************************

I have tried various resolutions on my flat panel 19" monitors, but to be honest 1024x768 always looks the best, any of the higher settings just makes everything too small.

Obviously only time will tell before even we XP die-hards transfer to Vista, but people are buying new PCs who have never owned or had little use of a PC before have the advantage of not knowing the difference between the two systems, therefore they just get on with it as the norm.
We on the other hand, do not like changes.
Title: Re: Running with vista
Post by: dave.m on February 09, 2008, 01:24:37 PM
Paul,
Which model HP scanner do you have that is not working?
Is your problem with the HP Director not opening because that was a bug with IE7 when it first came out. There was a script to work-round it, then HP came out with an update.
dave
Title: Re: Running with vista
Post by: paul-49 on February 09, 2008, 05:46:53 PM
My scanner is a HP scanjet 2100, I have been to the HP website, but it says that my scanner is not supported for vista
http://h10025.www1.hp.com/ewfrf/wc/document?docname=c01123715&lc=en&cc=us&dlc=en&product=59554&lang=en#

some good news, the new graphics card is working a treat, its set at 1280x720 and fits well on the screen, just need to connect it up to the HDTV so I can watch high definition videos I have downloaded, so have to give vista a plus point for that
Title: Re: Running with vista
Post by: soms on February 09, 2008, 10:18:58 PM
Well its a little dissapointing about the scanner. It is hardly antique hardware but it seems quite alot is not supported on Vista.

Of course microsoft would remind us that it is up to the hardware manufacturer to create the device drivers, although both parties are really at fault as microsoft has adapted plenty of drivers in the past (those ones that appear as being from Microsoft in Device Manager).

I have a Belkin USB infrared adapter and that isn't supported by Vista, even though it is such a relatively simple device using a standardised interface (like with your scanner).

Ah well, there is no point in moaning so much as we cant do anything about it.
Title: Re: Running with vista
Post by: oldfogy on February 09, 2008, 10:32:43 PM
Are you able to run it in XP compatible mode?

I believe Vista has that capability built into it also.
Title: Re: Running with vista
Post by: soms on February 09, 2008, 11:54:26 PM
Vista, like XP has a compatibility mode for software programs (though many which worked fine on XP will still not install or work).

Unfortunately this doesn't extend to hardware support. With XP it was either a matter of running an installation wizard and connecting a device (e.g. printer, scanner etc) or simply plugging it straight in. With XP things like my USB adapter were instantly recognised, a standard driver loaded and it worked.

With Vista, even if the installer can be pursuaded to run, when the device is connected it will not be recognised, and XP drivers wont work as the changes are too great (when XP first came out and drivers were scarce some hardware would work with 2000 drivers since it was very similar)
Title: Re: Running with vista
Post by: oldfogy on February 10, 2008, 12:32:31 AM
Would it be worth your while creating a dual boot system, even if it's only to be able to use your scanner, so not much work involved with loading too many programs ?

At least that way you should be able to get the best of both worlds without having to replace the scanner.
I'm not sure, but I believe XP can be loaded after Vista.
Title: Re: Running with vista
Post by: paul-49 on February 10, 2008, 05:43:12 AM
I have just adjusted the setting again. now the monitor is at 1280x800, with XP I just plugged the scanner in and XP found the drivers and it worked fine, I will connect the scanner to the laptop when I need it(laptop running xp)
I have notice one thing, I convert a lot of films from avi to dvd, now with XP converting would take just over an hour(700MB to 4.3GB) with vista just under 40 minutes, which suppose is another plus for vista
Title: Re: Running with vista
Post by: Pwiggler on February 10, 2008, 08:03:58 AM
not had chance to check but take a look at this :

http://www.hamrick.com/

Title: Re: Running with vista
Post by: oldfogy on February 10, 2008, 01:41:27 PM
I have notice one thing, I convert a lot of films from avi to dvd, now with XP converting would take just over an hour(700MB to 4.3GB) with vista just under 40 minutes, which suppose is another plus for vista
Now thats very interesting, as it's one of the reasons I was thinking of giving Vista a try.
Which program are you using please, if Nero then also which version, 6, 7 or 8?
Title: Re: Running with vista
Post by: soms on February 10, 2008, 02:35:21 PM
Quote
if Nero then also which version, 6, 7 or 8?

btw Nero 6 is incompatible with Vista. I bought Nero 7 and some features that worked great on XP, such as Nero ImageDrive don't appear on my vista install  :no:

It seems for Nero, complete compatibility is only achieved with version 8.
Title: Re: Running with vista
Post by: paul-49 on February 10, 2008, 06:16:26 PM
I am using a program called TMPGEnc, have used it for over 2 years, its small and simple, does the job everytime, I sometimes convert 3-4 films set it going at night time, when its finished it turns the PC of for you, then you need TMPGEnc dvd author to put the converted films on to disc which takes around 10 minutes, you can let it run in the back ground, or set to use all the cpu+memory power to convert faster(like I have in the picture)if you send me a pm I will tell you where you can get it from
(http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y75/paul04/tmpgenc.jpg)
Title: Re: Running with vista
Post by: oldfogy on February 10, 2008, 06:57:12 PM
Thanks Paul

I do have v2.59.47.155 but have never used it, yours looks good, so will have to give it a try, especially being able to create multi DVDs which can be a pain doing them one by one (as with all the stallone I just completed)

Is that processor monitor part of it (to the right of the screen)?

*******************************************************************

Sorry back on track!
What did you think of the dual boot theory for the scanner?
Title: Re: Running with vista
Post by: paul-49 on February 10, 2008, 09:27:56 PM
not sure about dual boot. like I said I do a lot of video editing/converting, so the less programs on the PC the better, keeps it nice and fast. I have another PC running XP so I will connect the scanner to that.
the more I use vista the more I like it(thought I would never say that)
just got IE7 right now. got 5 tabs open at the same time, so you can flick to say e-bay. check e-mails and so on.
but another program Im having problems with is easy cd creator 7. I only use it to make audio cd's/mp3's, but for some odd reason it won't add songs to the list???? so another thing to get working ;)

The processor monitor  is a little program that runs on the vista side bar. you can pick loads of different ones
http://gallery.live.com/liveItemDetail.aspx?li=f5b13626-b266-4334-b2e5-157bd66ca5af

get them here
http://vista.gallery.microsoft.com/vista/SideBar.aspx?mkt=en-gb
Title: Re: Running with vista
Post by: oldfogy on February 10, 2008, 09:52:48 PM
Thanks,
Since my last post, my 2nd PC just froze, 2 hours into transcoding a movie with Nero (22 minutes left)
But eventually had to do a "HARD" re-boot, followed by a Ghost recovery install. (although it does not usually take this long)

So tried my old version of TMPGEnc (2002) and it wanted, well it varied between 4 and 6 hours to convert a movie (avi) but to be honest I don't know what it was converting too, certainly not VOBs etc, so I'll now pass on that (for the time being at least)

OK, decided to run a disc check "about an hour ago" it is now at Stage 4 of 5 with the following message's:

"Deleting an index with entry Id 1678 from index $SII and $SDH file of 9.
followed by several other lines of text saying it's
Replacing invalid security id etc etc for files numbers etc etc.
Cleaning up 1199 unused index entries and Fixing mirror copy of security descriptors data stream.

So, "for the first time ever" it certainly did not like a hard boot this time.
(unless it's picked up a boot virus.

Although a normal AVG scan was done earlier today and did not spot anything.

**************************************************************************

Well, what can one say, except attach the HDD with USB gadget and re-format it from the other PC, because the BIOS no longer recognised the drive, re-Ghost Imaged backup, switched on and things seemed to be going quite well"

BUT, then my UPS unit started to bleep at me (only ever did it once before on overload) so switched most things off, but still bleeping bleeping at me, funny thought I, as by now there was nothing running at all, then in the distant background I could hear my other UPS bleeping away (and that has nothing plugged into it at all at the moment as it's only used on the laptop)  :-X

Ok by this time the UPS gives out as it does not last long, but it won't switch back on, okay, check the cut-out, no problem there. (Scratches head vigorously)

Needles to say by this time I'm getting a little agitated, then I'm thinking dirty power supply so it wont switch back on until it clears. (more head scratching)

Ah brain-wave, "look at the clock" NO TIME display, so check the house breaker.
Yes you guessed it, bleeping breaker had tripped out.  :lol:

NEXT!

Title: Re: Running with vista
Post by: paul-49 on February 11, 2008, 06:25:12 PM
And I thought I was having problems because my easy cd creator did not work, :D
Title: Re: Running with vista
Post by: oldfogy on February 11, 2008, 06:38:43 PM
Thats life or so they say.

Well just to "possibly" compound things, I am now in the middle of installing Vista Ultimate, yes, likewise I have probably said something like "not in my lifetime" but what the heck, it keeps me of the streets for a while longer.

20% and going strong, (obviously I am on a different PC at the moment) can't stand watching paint dry.  :lol:
if all goes well, all I will probably need to do is sort out the dual booting bit, not that it will probably matter that much, as I don't tend to switch it on and off that much.
Title: Re: Running with vista
Post by: soms on February 13, 2008, 11:17:18 PM
Have reverted back to XP.... and it works brilliantly on all fronts. Will leave Vista alone now for as long as I can forsee.

*Edit*

When I said reverted I did a partition format and installed XP from scratch, not that I had the option to uninstall Vista anyway and even if I did I wouldn't trust it to return to a working state.

I have three partitions - a main big one for Windows, programs and all that, a second one to keep drivers and installation files on and a third one I moved all that nasty dell system restoration stuff too.

The benefit of this was that once the partition was formatted I had Windows up and running again in literally minutes as I have recent versions of all my drivers and progs right there on the HDD to install immediately.
The closest thing to a perfect method for those of us who don't drive Imaging / ghosting software.
Title: Re: Running with vista
Post by: oldfogy on February 14, 2008, 12:20:03 AM
Still playing with Vista at the moment, I put it on a second partition, so it dual boots, so like yourself no trouble to revert back after finished playing (investigating).

But to be honest I can't see myself staying with it.

Why...
To be honest, I don't really know for sure, yes it's different and things are awkward to find and get around, but that's because of not being use to it, and lets face it, we probably had the same problems when changing from W95/98/SE/SE but eventually we did get used to it.

One thing that does really bug me is the fact of that the CPU meter is constantly cutting in and running at 100% even when the PC is just sitting there

However, I have found the colours are more vivid, especially wallpapers etc! or again is that just because they are different from the ones we normally see.

At the moment I have only tried one program (VSO ConvertXtoDvd) of which still took around about the same time as normal to convert a movie. I did try Nero 8 at one stage but that was ridiculous the time it was going to take, but it did have a problem with installing (oh yes) which on three occasions took what seemed forever, (well out of order).

*************************************************************

Back to my other PC (the one with the problem above)
If it ain't broke, don't fix it  :lol:

So I decided to put in a bigger power supply to try and resolve a problem I have had for a looong time.
Basically, when the PC is switched off and back on at the mains, something wants to try and start-up, with the silly neon case lights flashing on and off every second or so and a small thumping noise like a relay or something trying to cut-in until the a PC is actually started properly.

Okay, new 650 watt power supply collected and fitted.
Unfortunately this PC is not just a simple one HDD and one optical drive job. (8 drives in total) so arranging all the power leads "neat and tidy" takes a little while. (I like perfection)
Only to find out that the new supply will not work  ???
Replace the old supply and no problem, so the MB has not gone.

NEXT
Title: Re: Running with vista
Post by: Pwiggler on February 14, 2008, 11:41:09 AM
OF - i use DVDSanta for ripping avis to dvd vobs, seems to be the simplest and quickest:

http://www.dvdsanta.com/

Title: Re: Running with vista
Post by: paul-49 on February 14, 2008, 02:23:29 PM
I am going mad?? I posted a reply this morning and now its gone, I did a screen shot of a program and posted it
anyway back to vista, it is now begining to annoy me, I am putting all of my programs back on, only to find not many work, my old Favorite photosuite 3(photo editing program) will not work,yes I know its old but it is very good
still the epson ink monitor will not work
tried nero 8 this morning, did not like it so took it off,
I just want a program that will mix mp3's just like easy creator 7 did
I am now at the conclusion that vista is a waste of time, yes it looks good, but it not good if half your programs don't even work, so I think its bye bye to vista for a while, and welcome back my old pal XP,

Paul
Title: Re: Running with vista
Post by: UncleUB on February 14, 2008, 02:33:08 PM
I am using roxio easy creator 9 on vista home premium.It works fine,but when I first got the pc last april I had to download the lastest drivers.
Title: Re: Running with vista
Post by: roseway on February 14, 2008, 03:45:33 PM
>> I am going mad??

It's called the 'Vista effect' ;D
Title: Re: Running with vista
Post by: oldfogy on February 14, 2008, 04:28:32 PM
This really is the end of my saga (honest)
But just to update on the new 650 watt power supply (changing from a 500 watt).

Went back to the shop this time also with PC in hand.
New power supply tried and still not working, tried it both on a test PC and another PC and it worked fine.  ;D

Replaced back into my PC and nothing.  :no:
Replaced my own original 500 watt power supply and it still works.  :-\

I have just checked the "original" power supply that came with the PC before it had it's first upgrade and it was only a 250 watt supply, so I don't know and I have to admit defeat and leave it alone.

Conclusion:
My MB just does not like the higher wattage supply for some reason.
Although as previously mentioned, there is a annoying little problem which only started after the first upgrade which apart from a new case also included the current 500 watt supply.

The End... (If it ain't broke, Don't fix it)  :lol:

**************************************************************

Back to Vista.

If using the File and Transfer wizard to transfer files and settings from XP to Vista.
Make sure you use the Vista transfer wizard and not the XP version in XP.

You would need to use either the Vista disc or select the option from the Vista PC and copy the wizard program over to the XP PC first, as the two wizards are not compatible.
Title: Re: Running with vista
Post by: paul-49 on February 14, 2008, 06:35:35 PM
I am back, running XP again and life is so much better now, programs work, some day off this was, spent most of the day swearing at the PC, well swearing at vista,
I have kept vista on a spare hard drive and will keep going back to it, checking to see if I can get updates for my programs, but for now I am happy again
Title: Re: Running with vista
Post by: oldfogy on February 14, 2008, 06:59:22 PM
Likewise as yourself I will keep going back and having a play with Vista.
But possibly don't think I will stick with it (although who knows)

I thought about trying it as an upgrade to see how many of my existing programs will actually continue to work. The thought being that it may recognise them easier to update them.

Although so-far I have only tried a couple of programs (one of which was not successful) kg prob so not a program fault as such, but I did find it took a looong time to load.

Also, my graphics card was unable to be recognised or updated, so I pointed Vista update toward the XP driver folderon the other partition/drive, (but you may have to find where the driver is located first) it then found and upgraded the card without any problem.
Title: Re: Running with vista
Post by: soms on February 14, 2008, 11:50:51 PM
In my experience most of my programs worked OK, bar a select few but it was the clumsy interface, performance issues and so on which got me down.

I do like the developments in security and whilst all those warnings and confirmations can be repetitive they do serve a good purpose.

Another gripe was not being unable to remove all those Windows applications which have sprung up such as Windows Calender, Mail, Media Center, etc

My PC has a noisy graphics card and the fan speed is controlled by the Nvidia drivers in Windows.
When XP loads up and the driver takes control it is lovely and quiet until you decide crank up a game or a DVD.

In Vista even doing something as extreme as opening Virtual PC 2007 would have the fan going up a gear (which doesn't happen in XP).

I am not purposely trying to put Vista down, it has some good points, but it is the first time I have found myself disappointed with a new Windows release. (Without going off topic I am interested in Windows Home Server - I might create a new topic somewhere)
Title: Re: Running with vista
Post by: oldfogy on March 03, 2008, 12:51:18 AM
Well I think I may have finally given up with Vista.

Last night I tried setting a shortcut into the "SendTo" settings, eventually when I finally found the SendTo folder, basically it kept saying "permission was not granted to go any further", it would not even allow me into the properties, so I could change it's settings.

Unlike XP where you just select show hidden Files and Folder, then create any shortcut you want, which would then be available on the context right click menu.

So until forced to, I will be staying with XP.
Title: Re: Running with vista
Post by: Floydoid on March 03, 2008, 01:09:41 PM
I have heard that the permissions in Vista are a nightmare... all part of the microsoft strategy of taking the control away from the user, which started with XP, but XP is fine once you have it tamed.  I like to be in control of my PC and not have windows trying to think for me, but I suspect that Windows 7 is likely to be an even more dumbed down version that what Vista is.

Quote
So until forced to, I will be staying with XP.

Wise decision.
Title: Re: Running with vista
Post by: paul-49 on March 04, 2008, 04:37:11 AM
So until forced to, I will be staying with XP

well said
I think most of us started out with windows 95, the 98, then me, then xp, but vista has to be the worse one yet to work with(saying that 'me' comes very close as being the all time worse OP ever)
windows me would crash at anything, you press the wrong key it would crash, printed something=crash, cough=crash, call it a bad name=crash, it really did not need a excuse to crash

vista is mad, its like you want to try it, you are tempted, but when you do the only bit of sanity you had left goes, its does look nice, with its sidebar and aero but why why why won't anything work with it,

Ps, it is now my day off, and guess what, I can't sleep, so any spelling mistakes don't blame me, its dark ;)
Title: Re: Running with vista
Post by: oldfogy on March 04, 2008, 09:33:41 PM
Windows ME or SE ?

Personally I always found SE very easy to get on with, without too many problems or crashes.
(please note I did say "without too many problems")

ME, now thats another story, problem after problem, OK, when first installed it would find drivers for you that with SE you had to either install yourself or go hunting for, so yes, it did at first seem a better OS choice.
Although friends of mine swore by it and would not use SE.

However that was years ago, but recently after trying it again, no problems, so I think with the first set of updates it managed to fix the bugs within itself.

Mr Gates, it's my PC and if I want to alter something that may or may not effect the running there of, then that is my choice and not yours.  :P
Title: Re: Running with vista
Post by: mr_chris on March 04, 2008, 09:38:23 PM
Windows ME was a different beast to Windows 98 SE - SE was the second edition of Windows 98 and basically fixed most things that were wrong with Windows 98 when it was first released.

IMHO Win 98SE was probably the best balance between stability and functionality of the 9x line (which include 95, 98, 98SE and ME). I think they tried to put too much NT-based code into Windows ME, and when this went wrong, the core operating system wasn't powerful or stable enough to cope.

So ME was great if all your drivers were 110% well behaved... otherwise it was very unforgiving.

Having said that I know someone in particular who had problem after problem with Win98 / 98SE and got on just fine with ME, so... obviously depends on individual circumstances / hardware / drivers etc!
Title: Re: Running with vista
Post by: Floydoid on March 05, 2008, 05:34:20 AM
The best description I ever heard of ME was that it was like a 98 body on an NT chassis.  I loved 98SE, apart from it being prone to crashing, and IMO any of the 9x series was infinitely better than win3.x.
Title: Re: Running with vista
Post by: UncleUB on March 05, 2008, 06:51:17 AM
I used ME for 6 years and didn,t find much wrong with it.
Title: Re: Running with vista
Post by: mr_chris on March 05, 2008, 08:46:21 AM
Exactly! Out of interest, UB, did it come preinstalled on a PC you bought new?
Title: Re: Running with vista
Post by: UncleUB on March 05, 2008, 08:54:19 AM
Yes it did mr chris,It was a dell PC bought may 2001.Not long after that it went to XP.
Title: Re: Running with vista
Post by: mr_chris on March 05, 2008, 01:19:39 PM
Ah, cuz installs of OEM ME are the only ones I've seen that were in any way stable... either something to do with the OEM version of ME or the drivers that the manufacturers make sure are 100% compatible.

Although, the one I'm thinking of was a self-build with an OEM install of ME. Maybe they got lucky with drivers there too?
Title: Re: Running with vista
Post by: soms on March 05, 2008, 10:29:15 PM
I found ME better than 98SE.

Faster boot times, more reliable (in my experience), far better USB support and some better hardware support, otherwise very much the same, but I preferred ME myself.

(At the time we had two family computers - one was ME and one was 98SE - both straight forward OEM versions)
Title: Re: Running with vista
Post by: kitz on March 05, 2008, 10:57:28 PM
Ive used ME on a brand new self build with the OEM version of ME which ran sweet as a nut for many years.

I also put it on a couple  low spec - " bodge_together_with_whatever_spare_parts_you have_lying_around" type PCs.. 
one of them was particularly having probs with 98 networking and worked fine with an "upgrade copy of ME".

During about 2000-2003 I also upgraded quite a few PCs on behalf of others to ME from 98 - none of which I had a problem with.

I know some people really did seem to have ME problems and slagged it off - but it wasnt anything I ever personally saw.

Yet Vista on the otherhand ...............


(to be fair I have very limited experience with Vista)