Kitz Forum
Broadband Related => Broadband Hardware => Topic started by: jid on January 15, 2015, 12:40:53 PM
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Just picked up one of these on our favourite auction site for £40 to test 8)
I have the TP Link Archer C9 at the moment, but the firmware is really buggy, and the Super Router isn't an option as thats even worse!
I see Kitz has a thread with all the firmwares there, but lots of the links are broken? Especially the links to the "Stable" firmwares? The ZyXEL Ftp site seems to not be working either.
I'll probably try this out in Bridged mode too, and thanks to Kitz for her helpful guide on the main site :)
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here (http://chrysalisnet.org/zyxel/)
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http://chrysalisnet.org/zyxel/
Thanks very much Chrysalis!
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Hopefully will be arriving tomorrow, seems there's a newer modem driver than my Super Router - so maybe we will see how it goes.
Obviously the Super Router caused some issues with the line, so I want to see if this router does any better, I'll keep all informed.
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I will be interested in what you find. For me the Zyxel was a bit worse than the super router when it came to errors. As I have noted before I think that although the 63168 chipset modems are reported to be great on quiet lines they are potentially bad on noisy lines, and especially so if there are odd noise spikes.
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As I have noted before I think that although the 63168 chipset modems are reported to be great on quiet lines they are potentially bad on noisy lines, and especially so if there are odd noise spikes.
This is basically my line, so I think the cause of me going back on a banded profile was when I reconnected the Super Router, this let to the banding being re-applied the following morning.
What router are you currently using on your line?
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Ronski's line can be quite noisy at times. He's been averaging about 1400 E/S per day on the Zyxel and I notice last week hit >1700 but the DLM left him alone and he's still not interleaved. He previously used a HG612, whereby he was interleaved. Since using the Zyxel he immediately sync'd at a higher rate and has fared better with DLM. - DLM has also not only reduced interleaving but removed it completely. Ronski's line certainly seems to perform much better with the Zyxel.
Its going to have to be a case of suck it and see, but in all honesty most lines do seem to see an improvement. I think there's only les thats seen worse and chrys who saw more E/s. Les seems to think it could be the chipset and he may be right in that it expects the line to be using g.inp. The only other thing that I could possibly think is that perhaps it doesnt like being capped and somehow doesnt take into account the 'surplus' SNRm I dunno how that would work though, plus its just dawned on me that it didnt seem to bother with ronski & g.inp. Its most likely to be something to do with one of the noise protection algorithms, of which several will be in use (TCM, RS, INP/G.INP) and the type of noise experienced.
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Interesting, the Super Router uses the same chipset (but an older driver), so I'm hoping the Zyxel will be better - plus I can get line stats from it - I don't know why or for what reason the Super Router caused DLM to revert (likely ES count was too high).
I'm still also trying to work out what Speed profile TalkTalk use for DLM, I've always assumed Stable because of the IPTV, but I'm not sure as many posts on the TalkTalk forums say Standard.
If it is stable then I'm very wary that 72+ es per day will cause the line to go amber, and that's not something I want at the moment as I'm nearing the end of my caution count atm. EDIT: 12:10 had my banding moved up 10mbps
It's arrived, turns out it came from KCOM
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Ronski's line can be quite noisy at times. He's been averaging about 1400 E/S per day on the Zyxel and I notice last week hit >1700 but the DLM left him alone and he's still not interleaved. He previously used a HG612, whereby he was interleaved. Since using the Zyxel he immediately sync'd at a higher rate and has fared better with DLM. - DLM has also not only reduced interleaving but removed it completely. Ronski's line certainly seems to perform much better with the Zyxel.
My line always seems to lose interleaving through the winter months IIRC, but it performing much better than it has ever done for any length of time.
I've attached a couple of graphs I done some time ago which runs from 20 Aug 2012 to April 2014, sometime I'll attempt a graph of the entire period.
Edit: I'm averaging 1410 ES a day at the moment :o
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Hooked it up earlier, however tried and failed to get bridge mode working :-[
Anyone on TalkTalk using this router know the settings? As they don't PPoE for authentication just normal Dynamic IP?
Attainable went up from 84,000 to 90,000kbps though, similar to the Super Router. Didn't keep it connected though as needed to put the HG612 back to do some more Googling!
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check my posts in a zyxel bridging thread and also kitz based on those posts added a zyxel bridging guide to her site.
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check my posts in a zyxel bridging thread and also kitz based on those posts added a zyxel bridging guide to her site.
Seems I worked out what I did wrong, I'll have another go at setting it up tomorrow at some point. 6b1 is the firmware I'm going to use to start I think, newer version of the adsl_phyl than the Super Router.
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Ok so here's the before:
xdslcmd info --stats
xdslcmd: ADSL driver and PHY status
Status: Showtime
Retrain Reason: 0
Last initialization procedure status: 0
Max: Upstream rate = 33317 Kbps, Downstream rate = 84740 Kbps
Bearer: 0, Upstream rate = 19999 Kbps, Downstream rate = 69335 Kbps
Link Power State: L0
Mode: VDSL2 Annex B
VDSL2 Profile: Profile 17a
TPS-TC: PTM Mode(0x0)
Trellis: U:ON /D:ON
Line Status: No Defect
Training Status: Showtime
Down Up
SNR (dB): 6.3 11.9
Attn(dB): 15.4 0.0
Pwr(dBm): 12.6 6.6
VDSL2 framing
Bearer 0
MSGc: 14 36
B: 45 29
M: 1 1
T: 64 64
R: 14 10
S: 0.0211 0.0476
L: 22736 6717
D: 1219 673
I: 60 40
N: 60 40
Counters
Bearer 0
OHF: 117239314 1757899
OHFErr: 263 4
RS: 4243273261 3642518
RSCorr: 5358804 61745
RSUnCorr: 12905 0
Bearer 0
HEC: 3384 0
OCD: 82 0
LCD: 82 0
Total Cells: 4022911722 0
Data Cells: 163602560 0
Drop Cells: 0
Bit Errors: 0 0
ES: 32 3
SES: 0 0
UAS: 24 24
AS: 159030
Bearer 0
INP: 3.00 4.00
INPRein: 0.00 0.00
delay: 6 8
PER: 1.35 4.59
OR: 117.95 73.18
AgR: 69452.43 20072.59
Bitswap: 103532/103533 1335/1338
Here's the after:
xdslctl info --stats
xdslctl: ADSL driver and PHY status
Status: Showtime
Last Retrain Reason: 0
Last initialization procedure status: 0
Max: Upstream rate = 33660 Kbps, Downstream rate = 90457 Kbps
Bearer: 0, Upstream rate = 19999 Kbps, Downstream rate = 69335 Kbps
Link Power State: L0
Mode: VDSL2 Annex B
VDSL2 Profile: Profile 17a
TPS-TC: PTM Mode
Trellis: U:ON /D:ON
Line Status: No Defect
Training Status: Showtime
Down Up
SNR (dB): 6.5 12.1
Attn(dB): 0.0 0.0
Pwr(dBm): 12.6 6.7
VDSL2 framing
Bearer 0
MSGc: 14 36
B: 45 29
M: 1 1
T: 64 64
R: 14 10
S: 0.0211 0.0476
L: 22736 6717
D: 1219 673
I: 60 40
N: 60 40
Counters
Bearer 0
OHF: 828635 245792
OHFErr: 0 0
RS: 211943145 4124315
RSCorr: 19109 0
RSUnCorr: 0 0
Bearer 0
HEC: 0 0
OCD: 0 0
LCD: 0 0
Total Cells: 149868161 0
Data Cells: 3749831 0
Drop Cells: 0
Bit Errors: 0 0
ES: 0 0
SES: 0 0
UAS: 24 24
AS: 1125
Bearer 0
INP: 3.00 4.00
INPRein: 0.00 0.00
delay: 6 8
PER: 1.35 4.59
OR: 117.95 73.18
AgR: 69452.43 20072.59
Bitswap: 459/459 0/0
Seems my attainable has gone up, but the SNR Margin is up by about 0.3dB, shall see if it stays stable like before.
Going to now monitor the ES count, as I think with the Super Router - which has the same Broadcom chipset, this is what was causing the issues.
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With your speed banding you might have expected a bigger snrm increase of at least 1.0 db.
It will be hard to compare with the super router now that you are interleaved. Your current ES rate in not large and the DLM might in any case back off given time. The 63168 devices may or may not be better or worse when interleaved, it will be interesting to see. If do you go back to fast path I would keep a very close eye on the errors and quickly try the HG612 again if the error rate is looking large with the Xyxel. You only need one bad day to set off the DLM downwards, but many days to get back up.
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Good luck, it will be interesting to see your results :)
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With your speed banding you might have expected a bigger snrm increase of at least 1.0 db.
It will be hard to compare with the super router now that you are interleaved. Your current ES rate in not large and the DLM might in any case back off given time. The 63168 devices may or may not be better or worse when interleaved, it will be interesting to see. If do you go back to fast path I would keep a very close eye on the errors and quickly try the HG612 again if the error rate is looking large with the Xyxel. You only need one bad day to set off the DLM downwards, but many days to get back up.
Well I was interleaved with the Super Router as well. I will keep a close eye, I've probably another few days yet to wait for a further DLM improvement, shall see how it goes!
Yes I left the HG612 on the wall next to the router in case a quick swap is needed!
Good luck, it will be interesting to see your results :)
Will keep you all posted, and thanks Kitz for the bridging guide on the main site :)
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Sadly, just had a big spike of around 70 ES - something I've never seen before.
So I've reverted to the HG612 - if I'm on a stable profile for DLM, i've just lost my full green caution counters >:(
Well it was worth a try though, but it seems this was the reason for the Super Router causing DLM to drop so much!
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In all fairness spikes do sometimes occur out of the blue for no reason. Funny enough Ive just had one on my line about an hour ago too.
As you can see from the graph below showing previous history for the past 10 days, this is very unusual for my line.
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Edit - how weird, when zooming in, both our spikes occurred at the same time!
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In all fairness spikes do sometimes occur out of the blue for no reason. Funny enough Ive just had one on my line about an hour ago too.
As you can see from the graph below showing previous history for the past 10 days, this is very unusual for my line.
I was just hitting 1 million FEC errors per minute - something unseen on my line :o
Sync speed dropped by 1000kbps as well, so not sure why that's happened ??? I'm thinking, someone else just got provisioned on the cab, upstream has taken the hit though lost 1dB upstream SNR margin.
The attached doesn't look too good
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I agree that spikes can just happen but my issue with all the 63168 devices and especially the Super Router and Xyxel is that for me they consistently produce very very much bigger errors with the spikes. I persisted for a few days with them both so on my line the effect was definite. In between the spikes I had no issues, so if I had no spikes I am sure my views would be quite different. In jid's case he may not want to push his DLM luck with more tries.
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I seem to have lost a lot of upstream tones? In the attached image, all the ones usually on the left have gone?
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Your D3 SNRm seemed to take a hit too. Plus those FEC's continued to spike after 4pm when you put the HG612 back on... in fact they shot up even further to 1500. :o Looks like your line conditions suddenly changed and you suffered some nasty noise bursts.
>>> I'm thinking, someone else just got provisioned on the cab
Possible .... and if an engineer was twiddling to connect another user it could be why you saw the sudden spike.
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In jid's case he may not want to push his DLM luck with more tries.
I agree. Something other than the router swap appears to be affecting the line right now. Bad day to experiment. :/ I would certainly not pursue anything right now... and just try keep that line stable as possible with one router. The risk of DLM is too great.
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Your D3 SNRm seemed to take a hit too. Plus those FEC's continued to spike after 4pm when you put the HG612 back on... in fact they shot up even further to 1500. :o Looks like your line conditions suddenly changed and you suffered some nasty noise bursts.
>>> I'm thinking, someone else just got provisioned on the cab
Possible .... and if an engineer was twiddling to connect another user it could be why you saw the sudden spike. US0 is 0dB
Yep I'm not sure what happened, a lot of my upstream bits are no longer loaded up either, never seen this before?
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Your US0 is really quite strange, it looks like it took a hit at 3pm & at the time of the spike but at least the Zyxel showed retained it.
The HG612 doesnt seem to recognise it at all and its almost like its marked all tones out of use. It is there in your hlog though - which (I think) occurs at transceiver training phase, and before PSD and PBC. There isnt even any SNR nvm SNRm. I cant say Ive seen that before either. I wonder if you did a resync if it would reappear. Not that Im suggesting that though - its up to you if you want to chance another resync today.
Whatever happened its not normal and I wouldnt expect it to have had that effect even it it was a new line going on the cab :(
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Whatever happened its not normal and I wouldnt expect it to have had that effect even it it was a new line going on the cab :(
I'll try a resync tomorrow at some point, see if it reloads it. The other thing I noticed, before I was synced at 69335, and a few resyncs never changed that - its now dropped for some reason, maybe think to the U0? I wouldn't think that would be possible if the attainable is right up at 84,000 - surely it could sync at the max of the band, there's some SNRM spare?
If it doesn't return tomorrow, I'll get TalkTalk to run a line test to see if anything is picked up.
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I resynced just now, safely out of the way of DLM, and the US bands have returned it seems. Seems you were right Kitz, a resync did solve it :)
Definitely something like someone else being connected to the cab I think ::)
(https://forum.kitz.co.uk/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FncIg5do.png&hash=dcbe68304baf341d9060ba5c56cc296751d647b3)
(https://forum.kitz.co.uk/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FYkF3zHd.png&hash=1f240e9b9d9ad0fb39c4d2460a55a5d0d06f8076)
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Glad it righted itself (U0)
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Assuming that you will try the Zyxel again, it may be as well to do it soon while your green status is already damaged. The error burst certainly looked unusual so hopefully nothing as dramatic will occur again.
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Assuming that you will try the Zyxel again, it may be as well to do it soon while your green status is already damaged. The error burst certainly looked unusual so hopefully nothing as dramatic will occur again.
I will be trying it but not sure when, today spotted an OR engineer in the car and lost more attainable tonight.
Seems crosstalk is to blame so at the moment I'll keep with the HG612. But I will consider putting back the Zyxel as I'm sure it would get me nearer the 70mbps sync speed.
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if a new line gets connected (and adds new crosstalk) you will for sure get an error burst as bitswapping has to adjust the tones for the new line characteristics. If the crosstalk is heavy enough you will get a drop as well and sync lower.