Kitz Forum
Broadband Related => FTTC and FTTP Issues => Topic started by: NewtronStar on January 05, 2015, 10:42:23 PM
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My DS SNRm swings by 1.2dB over 24 hours due to RFI and no amount of sync capping can stop this as the attainable rate is the driver for your SNRm.
We known you can cap the connection speed sync on the HG612 is there anyway to cap the attainable rate on the HG612 ?
All I can think of at the moment is sticking a variable resistor before the HG612 all thats going to do is increase the attenuation and cause a lower attainable and lower connection sync but the attainable will still swing over 24 hours.
If I could just cap the attainable to say 33000 kbps the DS SNRm would be steady
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as the attainable rate is the driver for your SNRm.
Its the other way around. The SNRm is the driver for the attainable rate, the latter is just a hypothetical figure calculated by the router based on what could be acheived if no caps or limits were in place.
Sticking a resistor on will increase the attenuation which will lower the SNR.. and yes in turn reduce the attainable rate, but even if you could, I cant see that it will be of any benefit as far as DLM is concerned.. in fact its more likely to make things worse. The attainable will still swing in line with the SNRm, but now at a lower rate. With the SNRm being lower then DLM will think your line quality has decreased. DLM doesnt care about attainable rate, it cares about the effects of fluctuations in the SNRm.
If I could just cap the attainable to say 33000 kbps the DS SNRm would be steady
No unfortunately not. SNRm is an actual measurement of line quality and conditions. Attainable is just an (estimated) calculation based on the conditions. The effect of doing what your suggesting would kind of be the equivalent of having a thermometer that only measured temperatures up to 30 degrees. It doesnt stop the temperature rising above that figure though.
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Thanks for correcting my assumption on the attainable just thought there could be an easy way to full the DS SNRm into a steady level, there must be away to combat this RFI on the local loop you know i've done everthing possible to make the my line better but still this RFI issue is the last thing left to fix.
Kitz do you have any idea how those radio frequencies are getting into my local loop and is there anything that openreach could do to subdue the effects.
TBH this is my last fullhardy attempt to proceed with this RFI issue and a poke in the eye with a krone tool to anyone who suggests an RF3 or MK2/MK3 :D
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TBH this is my last fullhardy attempt to proceed with this RFI issue and a poke in the eye with a krone tool to anyone who suggests an RF3 or MK2/MK3 :D
Perhaps you should use your sonic screwdriver to reverse the polarity of the neutron flow? :-\ :angel:
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Perhaps you should use your sonic screwdriver to reverse the polarity of the neutron flow? :-\ :angel:
Never thought of that cheers the BBC Web site has 14 instock at £14.99 each and bundled a user manual ;D
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I wish I could suggest something else for you NS. Its the induction of some sort of noise that is causing the SNRm to fluctuate and until that noise can be completely eliminated then there's nothing else that could stabilise the SNRm. As far as the mechanics of DSL goes, then anything up to 3dB is classed as acceptable and normal variance. The longer the line then the more anticipated variance, so you'd less likely expect 3dB variance on a short line, but it would be normal on a long line.
Your variance over the course of the day looks pretty damn smooth and to me it looks like just general background type noise. I certainly wouldn't say its REIN/SHINE/PEIN and its now just the typical day swing you'd likely expect to see from general atmospheric RFI (http://www.kitz.co.uk/adsl/rein.htm#atmosphericRFI). In fact I'd say your SNRm looks quite nice for the line length. The QLN tells a bit of a story - I dont like the spikes in the last band... but that in itself could be typical of background noise picked up on long lines. It would at some point be interesting to see if a QLN in the morning is better than a QLN taken in the evening. Usual caution given re performing resyncs. Dont be in a rush to do it as Im not expecting to be around much over the next couple of days. :(
Your E/S looks quite acceptable now. I have a very strong suspicion that a lot of your damage was done during the early days before monitoring commenced. I suspect that you may have been doubled by the ILQ many times over and therefore you may have to wait longer for the DLM to relent. I dont know how much swing the DLM allows for SNRm before it repents, but I'd consider 1.5dB to be reasonable for any line. Id expect the DLM to only be looking at variance of say more than 3 or 4dB. If I had to take a guess and take a stab at a figure then I'd say DLM would look at less than 3.5dB as being ok. This is based purely on the fact that all DSL theory says 3dB is acceptable.
I so very much wish that the ISPs could request a DLM reset for fttc.. as Im sure your line would now perform quite happily.
Im also unsure about the effects of capping sync.. because if you are going to do it, you'd need to do so and keep it like that for a long time until the line recovers. If the ILQ system is monitoring your line in preparation for a reduction then any artificial capping that causes changes say from 6dB to 10dB and back again could do more harm than good. The DLM will see an SNRm change of 4dB and isnt likely to like it. The DLM will be far happier with a line doing a daily swing between 6dB and 8dB each day. It wont be happy to see a change of 10dB down to 6dB as it will just see a downward loss of 4dB and could class that as unstable.
I really do need to dig further into the ILQ aspect for DLM recovery because thats where Im up to, but Im sorry I honestly dont expect to be able to do that for a while. People are going to have to cut me some slack over the coming weeks as things are only likely to get worse. :/
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It's interesting as my line appears to behave very similar to yours. I have been capped by DLM for around a month now.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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Newtron a few things.
1 - The SNRM is the real figure based on real time line conditions. The only way to cap it as you say is to effectively weaken the signal so you have a lower SNRM, thats not a good thing :(
2 - The attainable is an estimate by the modem of what the line can achive based on target SNRM and current SNRM. My view is that different modems and firmware will estimate differently depending on how they programmed e.g. I suspect the zyxel firmware will give a higher estimate than say the hg612.
3 - To fix your problem is nothing you can do, I think you powerless, its down to the long length of your D side, cable makeup and conditions outside your property. I had the same swings when I was on ADSL, a long 50db loop loss. They are gone now I have a short D side on VDSL. All it will achieve is driving you nuts, I tried all sorts of things when I was on ADSL and none of them prevented the swing, you can make your line more resilient of course by applying interleaving or syncing with a higher SNRM. Certain modems/chipsets as well may also prove more resilient, traditionally in my view broadcom chipsets have been the best at handling these conditions.
As a final note what you really could do with is SRA, SRA is really good at dealing with varying conditions. Apparently SRA is planned on VDSL it may come with vectoring and on the NEW DLM currently beenworked on, but I may be wrong. On ADSL in the UK the only provider that ever enabled it was easynet (ukonline). its barely been used in the UK. Basically SRA will peg your SNRM down to a fixed level e.g. 6db and instead vary the sync speed to maintain stability. It does this without dropping the connection.
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Kitz I'm very grateful for your insight into DLM SNRm thesholds and yes completely agree that my random attempts to sync cap the connection may be doing more damage over the short term though my gut say's the DLM has permanently stuck me on the interleaved profile unless it get's a DLM reset by openreach at a cost of £150 would rather treat myself with one of those all in one DSL-VDSL modem/routers as the HH3 & HG612 is getting on a bit after 3 years.
& Chysalis you said it "All it will achieve is driving you nuts" and it has been driving me :mad: and there is nothing I can do at my end to change this.
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even a engineeer visit doesnt mean you get a reset, they only supposed to order resets if they find and fix something.
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even a engineeer visit doesnt mean you get a reset, they only supposed to order resets if they find and fix something.
Thats an interesting debate all on it's own ;) how big does a fault need to be before the engineer ask's for the DLM to be reset, if the DLM has become stuck and we all know to well software and hardware do have there clitch's from time to time so the DLM is not immune from this.
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To answer your question officially, the fault* can be 'any size' ......... so long as it is a fault that has been remedied. :)
*Fault- as defined by BTOR/ISP's ............... not the EU's own scrutiny of, or definition of. Sorry, I don't make the guidelines.
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To answer your question officially, the fault* can be 'any size' ......... so long as it is a fault that has been remedied. :)
*Fault- as defined by BTOR/ISP's ............... not the EU's own scrutiny of, or definition of. Sorry, I don't make the guidelines.
Then I'll have to ask your goodself would my SNRm problem be classified as a fault that could be fixed ? I hate putting you in this position yet I question myself is it worth pursuing and have looked at quite a few QLNs and Bitloading graphs on MDWS and yet have not seen such severity of missing tones in the evening elsewhere.
This is a Bitloading graph this evening and a whole chunk of tones start to disappear after 4pm and this is why the SNRm swings.
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Newt hopefully BS can make a comment on my thoughts here.
But given I have never been charged for a visit even when no fault found, I suspect the £150 fee you quoted is mainly there as a deterrent to stop people reporting faults repeatedly and seen to be wasting openreach's time.
BT your isp have to legally let you know the fee may be raised prior to the visit hence them warning you, but I think in many cases no fee is raised.
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Newt hopefully BS can make a comment on my thoughts here.
But given I have never been charged for a visit even when no fault found, I suspect the £150 fee you quoted is mainly there as a deterrent to stop people reporting faults repeatedly and seen to be wasting openreach's time.
Well this would be my first time to report a broadband issue/fault the last time was when I was with TALKTALK but it was due to BB outages all I want is an OR engineer to test the line when the SNRm drops off that's from 2-4pm and reset the DLM and check that 25 year old drop wire to DP pole :)
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The attainable is an estimate by the modem of what the line can achive based on target SNRM and current SNRM. My view is that different modems and firmware will estimate differently depending on how they programmed e.g. I suspect the zyxel firmware will give a higher estimate than say the hg612.
Ummm. Surely that would because the Zyxel gives a better SNR Margin than the HG612. The more SNRm then the of course the attainable will be higher. All routers will calculate the attainable rate based on the surplus SNR margin. As mentioned in my post above it will then use the number of bins in use to estimate just how much speed that will mean.
Currently the Zyxel is giving me an attainable of circa 83Mbps with an SNRm of 6.7dB. None of the other routers I have will currently allow me to sync at the full 80/20. Without doubt the Zyxel gives me a better sync speed regardless if that is actual sync speed or attainable sync. Time and time again the Zyxel has proved itself to give better sync speeds on the vast majority of lines. Therefore it follows if it gives better actual sync speeds then it will also give a higher attainable speed. This is because the dsl_phy is supposedly better and more efficient.
Even before I got a recent x-talk hit the SNRm has always been better on the Zyxel than on the HG612. In the same way that Lantiq chipsets give me less SNR margin and therefore less attainable than even the HG612.
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This is something i've been keeping a close eye on over the last few months, Zyxel, Asus DSL-A66U and Asus DSL-AC68U i am by far a non modem hardware expert but any of the above would be better than the HG612 ;)
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I get an 84000 attainable on the HG612 but on the TalkTalk Super router I get around 90,000 with the same SNR margin.
Seems possible that the two devices calculate things differently? The Super Router is much more prone to errors though.
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Newt hopefully BS can make a comment on my thoughts here.
But given I have never been charged for a visit even when no fault found, I suspect the £150 fee you quoted is mainly there as a deterrent to stop people reporting faults repeatedly and seen to be wasting openreach's time.
BT your isp have to legally let you know the fee may be raised prior to the visit hence them warning you, but I think in many cases no fee is raised.
Any fee quoted will probably act as a deterrent but someone has to pay OR to attend site, so I'm guessing your ISP is footing the cost, Chrysalis ?? Again, second-guessing the ISP's protocols, I'd humbly suggest that they will only put up with 'so much' before passing those costs on ??
NS - I absolutely appreciate where you're coming from, but I have to say it as I see it from a business perspective. The guidelines that OR work to have been set in stone. We could all argue until the cows come home, whether those set parameters are sufficient and/or what other details should be included in the tests. However, as it is now you get the PQT, the Fast Test/Eclipse and a DSL test. If they all pass, and there is no audible noise on the PSTN side of the circuit ..... job done.
With the greatest of respect and only using your example as it is current, we can't have EU's dictating what they think should be checked. ie: your 25yr old drop-wire.
A) We see all kinds of legacy wiring, both internal and external. At what age should it be replaced, even if it tests ok ??
B) The PQT would not only test your drop-wire, but every other aspect of the circuit from premises to Exchange
Of course, the PQT is only one test, and can't always detect the miniscule HR's, so a visual check of the drop-wire along with other tests may be frugal, but that would be at the engineers discretion. It's incredibly hard to comment conclusively on a public forum, as every single scenario will be different.
Regarding your SNRm swings. Then that should be down to your ISP (not OR) to determine if it is worthy of a site-visit. Again, using the forum as an example the members on here have graphing scripts to collate data ...... they are in the low percentages compared to the total number of DSL users nationwide.
OR only have DSL access (28 days historic view) to classic BT lines, so we wouldn't be able to view the rest of the LLU circuits performance. I don't think any business worth its salt would just freely accept the EU's own-sourced data, as receipt of a fault ?? So I reiterate, your ISP should be the ones monitoring your circuit and they should decide if a visit is necessary. If so, they should make the appointment at the relevant time and add notes stating what they think the issues are. The moon is also made of cheese.
In closing, I am not disputing you may have issues with your circuit. I'm merely pointing out that there has to be a line drawn in the sand as to what is deemed an actionable fault or otherwise. :)
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If a fault is found OR foot the bill.
The issue is what happens when no fault is found.
But you are right, who footed the bill on those visits? possibly my isp yes.
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Caveat - If a fault is found on the OR-owned network, then they will foot the bill.
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Is it at the engineer's discretion to raise a fee, or is it automatic when no fault is found?
e.g. what happens if the engineer isnt convinced is no fault but cannot find whats wrong or isnt conclusive?
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Timescale Related Charges (TRC) ..... or 'The fee' as most would say, is largely dependant on the type of task built by the ISP.
There are too many scenario's to go into, but I'm certain the angle your coming from is the elusive intermittent fault ?? As I have said before, it all hinges on the conversation between the EU and the CP/ISP as to what task is raised (PSTN or DSL).
For the very most part, on PSTN faults the TRC is automatically built into the task when the engineer completes his task on his Laptop/i Phone via drop-down menu's.
On DSL tasks, the ISP will have already paid OR up-front for the visit ..... requesting which 'modules' they want the engineer to investigate. The more modules, the greater the cost.
We have a team of TRC 'Spotters' who are similar to konrado investigating attenuation/SNR values .......... in other words, no stone is left unturned and full scrutinisation is applied when they contact the engineer asking why a TRC was not raised, should that be the case ?
"e.g. what happens if the engineer isnt convinced is no fault but cannot find whats wrong or isnt conclusive?"
I can't get my head around that statement I'm afraid ? If 'we' think there is a fault, we have to keep going until we find it. If there is no evidence of a historic fault and all tests show the circuit to be fine, then there's a good chance the TRC will be passed to the EU.
It really is an in-depth subject as it all hinges on historic line-conditions, DSL performance and what one finds when attending site.
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So you have never attended a property, where its clear something isnt right but at the same time cannot find an issue?
I will give you a scenario.
Cabinet is outside the house and the actual cable route is direct lets say 10m underground.
The end user is using BT home hub 5, default settings, no home wiring issues etc.
The JDSU syncs at 14mbit instead of 80mbit but all the JDSU tests pass.
ISP has decided to be cheap and not told the customer they only booked minimum modules.
What happens in terms of charges? you cannot do more checks because modules not paid for and at same time you not found OR based fault, but you also know its not EU side. This is far from an impossible scenario.
I am going to guess the answer.
The ISP may be to blame in the scenario because they asked the engineer to check the wrong things so as a result they are billed.
The more I think about this the more it shows how messed up this arrangement is, really the end user should be dealing with openreach direct or at the evry least they need to have control over what modules are ordered and the ISP should have to tell the end user what modules are ordered, its bonkers that basically the end user is kept completely out the loop.
Every public facing document I have seen makes no mention of modules, there is a openreach page which states a standard SFI fee which is payable when no fault is found or a fault found on end user equipment. So even openreach's own site seems at odds with the truth.
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So you have never attended a property, where its clear something isnt right but at the same time cannot find an issue?
No.
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Every public facing document I have seen makes no mention of modules, there is a openreach page which states a standard SFI fee which is payable when no fault is found or a fault found on end user equipment.
The modules are nothing to do with the EU. The ISP decides which route to take ..... 1) Frames check only ...... or, 2) Minimum 'Base Module' whereby the engineer visits the EU's premises. The ISP can decide whether to pre-authorise other modules for the engineer to follow up on, if they feel it is needed.
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To me it's clear as day when i compare two QLN graphs seperated by 2 years it shows how my line has changed regarding RFI the only reason would it not be down to an HR fault and never had errored seconds 2 years ago when the phone rings.
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As mooted, NS ................... the onus is on you and your ISP to make the decision to proceed, should you wish to. If you are confident there is a 'HR' (and it does sound like it), and your ISP review the logs and concurs, you're laughing.
Make the call.
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As mooted, NS ................... the onus is on you and your ISP to make the decision to proceed, should you wish to. If you are confident there is a 'HR' (and it does sound like it), and your ISP review the logs and concurs, you're laughing.
Make the call.
I'm no BroadBand engineer but if i was and the EU printed out those two graphs and i would be happy to explore the customers line to find the cause.
Would the ISP when reviewing the logs see the QLN as we do when using stats moniters, and would the OR engineer know from the two printed QLN graphs help them understand the probable cause on the line ?
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The ISP's Tier 2 techs would definitely have vision of QLN, hLog, hLin etc etc .............. which is why they are best placed to make an informed decision as to whether an engineering visit is justified ?
As you're probably aware from reading these forums, it depends on which engineer turns up at your door as to the level of DSL understanding. Whatever the level though, the same basket of measures should be followed with regard to testing for a 'HR' or any other kind of fault.
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Every public facing document I have seen makes no mention of modules, there is a openreach page which states a standard SFI fee which is payable when no fault is found or a fault found on end user equipment.
The modules are nothing to do with the EU. The ISP decides which route to take ..... 1) Frames check only ...... or, 2) Minimum 'Base Module' whereby the engineer visits the EU's premises. The ISP can decide whether to pre-authorise other modules for the engineer to follow up on, if they feel it is needed.
Given its the end user who has the issue and its their property you attending I would say it has everything to do with them. you may not see it as a visiting engineer, but remember its these end users that pay your wages, no end users means no income for isps or openreach.
Even your new CEO has admitted there is a problem in how end users are kept out of the loop.
Think about it, end user has to take day of work, to wait for an engineer, and their time is wasted because isp didnt book right module.
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So you have never attended a property, where its clear something isnt right but at the same time cannot find an issue?
No.
What about the scenario I gave you.
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Your a great help Black Sheep :thumbs:
My only issue now is with the BT Helpline call center i'm starting to get nervous but i'll keep saying to myself KEEP CALM and BE PATIENT :D I am an easy going fellow but tend to have a low threshold when it comes to speaking on the Phone :-[
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Good luck newt, who knows what the outcome will be, but you dont know until you try.
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Chrys, I haven't got the time or patience to play Ping-Pong with you. I don't make this stuff up, I tell you as it is. Trying to find grey areas/scenario's can go on ad infinitum ........... I can't be arsed with it.
We have a guy at work we call, 'But what if' ................ you wouldn't believe the stuff he dreams up as questions !!
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Your a great help Black Sheep :thumbs:
My only issue now is with the BT Helpline call center i'm starting to get nervous but i'll keep saying to myself KEEP CALM and BE PATIENT :D I am an easy going fellow but tend to have a low threshold when it comes to speaking on the Phone :-[
Not a problem NS ..... good luck my friend.
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Chrys, I haven't got the time or patience to play Ping-Pong with you. I don't make this stuff up, I tell you as it is. Trying to find grey areas/scenario's can go on ad infinitum ........... I can't be arsed with it.
We have a guy at work we call, 'But what if' ................ you wouldn't believe the stuff he dreams up as questions !!
Well just think about what I said, all the info thats kept out of sight is why so many people blame openreach. The isp's tell the end users "but we sent the engineer out its not our fault he didnt check this and that".
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This is something i've been keeping a close eye on over the last few months, Zyxel, Asus DSL-A66U and Asus DSL-AC68U i am by far a non modem hardware expert but any of the above would be better than the HG612 ;)
Im not so sure about the last 2, afaik, theres still a lots of bugs to be ironed out. I'd stick with BCM chipsets if I were you.
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Im not so sure about the last 2, afaik, theres still a lots of bugs to be ironed out. I'd stick with BCM chipsets if I were you.
Which Zyxel Model would you suggest please note my wallet is not very think ?
Update gave BT a call this evening the center was busy so used the callback facility and it was BT india, well they say the line looks ok but the line is being observed for 24 hours and sent me a text message if the line performance deteriorates then have to reply to message ???
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Newt I reccomended the 8800nl to you, I guess my humble self doesnt count :(
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Billion-8800NL-Gigabit-Wireless-Router/dp/B00K6D2ESM
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I don't have any personal experience of devices for VDSL2 but having considered chipset, price, facilities available, etc, I too would suggest the Billion 8800NL . . . which is not a Zyxel device, of course. ;)
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Newt I reccomended the 8800nl to you, I guess my humble self doesnt count :(
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Billion-8800NL-Gigabit-Wireless-Router/dp/B00K6D2ESM
Oh yes it does Chry ;) that's more like it easy on the pocket for an all in one unit the Zyxel is just out of my league
I take it the Hg612_Modem_stats and DSLstats software works fine with the Billion 8800NL
@B*CAT we are gonna try an convince you to change your current xDSL mode this year :hmm: .
thankyou both for saving me a load of money :)
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I've been using an 8800NL right from the start, and it's never given me any trouble. DSLstats works fine with it, and I believe HG612 Stats does also, but someone else will need to confirm that.
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DSLstats works fine with it, and I believe HG612 Stats does also, but someone else will need to confirm that.
That seals the deal don't get me wrong the HG612 and HH3 have served me very well over the past 2-3 years but I guess it's time to move on and you will never have the most upto date hardware these days because as soon as it's forsale there is another more upto date model waiting to be sold :(
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Newt I reccomended the 8800nl to you, I guess my humble self doesnt count :(
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Billion-8800NL-Gigabit-Wireless-Router/dp/B00K6D2ESM
Oh yes it does Chry ;) that's more like it easy on the pocket for an all in one unit the Zyxel is just out of my league
I take it the Hg612_Modem_stats and DSLstats software works fine with the Billion 8800NL
@B*CAT we are gonna try an convince you to change your current xDSL mode this year :hmm: .
thankyou both for saving me a load of money :)
yep works, you may need the fixed exe from BE tho for full stats. I will send to you if he isnt around. Whats nice as well is the size, its very similar sized to the hg612.
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yep works, you may need the fixed exe from BE tho for full stats. I will send to you if he isnt around. Whats nice as well is the size, its very similar sized to the hg612.
What about manually dropping the PPP connection on the 8800NL with the HH3 you could force a new PPP connection by switching off the router without disturbing the line connection to the HG612 modem.
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I am pretty sure you will be able to control the PPP independently of the sync in the interface.
You can also use the billion in bridge mode (like I do) so its then just a replacement as a modem for the hg612.
ON my 8800nl, I have done lots of fiddling on vlan settings, bridging settings, firewall, ip range, wireless settings, snmp and more, none affected the sync status. The only things I expect that would initiate a new sync is directly touching the dsl settings.
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I'm sure there will be a setting somewhere. I attach a screen grab where it is on the Zyxel VMG8324.
The Zyxel's GUI though is very feature rich and you can do most things via the web GUI rather than having to use the CLI/telnet. The amount of info in the GUI can be a bit overwhelming for a n00b, but now Ive found where everything is, I really like the fact that Zyxel has made so much info and controls available in it.
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Perhaps, when the "moment is ripe", either Eric or Walter will be able to comment on the ability to drop a PPP session independently of the DSL link when using a Billion 8800NL? :-\
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Yes, I looked earlier without success, but I see it now: Status --> WAN
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Ah, excellent news. Just what N*Star needed to know. Thank you. :)
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The ISP phone call may have made some changes as it's been a long time since i've seen a SNRM flatline have to be cautious here and let it play out over a few weeks :-\
And silly me forgot the HG612 GUI password i set 2 weeks ago and had to flash it this evening.
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Yes, I looked earlier without success, but I see it now: Status --> WAN
Cheers Eric & can confirm it's purchased will have to lay off the cigs for 3-4 days to rebalance my bank account :ouch:
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Just did a manual re-sync of FTTC modem this evening the US pwr dBmV has gone from 0.6 to -0.1 is this ok ?
The reason for turning off the HG612 was to install the CAT6 RJ11 to RJ11 1 meter cable as i think interference from TV and PC moniter was getting into the modem via the flat untwisted DSL cable because as soon as monitor is switched on the DS SNRM drops and both of them are close to DSL cable half a meter each.
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. . . the US pwr dBmV has gone from 0.6 to -0.1 is this ok ?
Probably, yes. ;)
You no doubt recall that a dB is a dimensionless ratio and the power unit that you have quoted, above, is dB relative to one mV. So seeing the change from a positive value to a negative value is not as if your US power "has gone negative" but just the ratio is "inverted".
(Sorry that the above is rather nebulous. I found it rather difficult to put into words . . .)
References:
Signal Strength (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Signal_strength)
Decibel (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Decibel)
Orders of Magnitude (Voltage) (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orders_of_magnitude_%28voltage%29)
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Probably, yes. ;)
that's good news and also the Mr Telephone RJ11 to RJ11 cable is doing it's job except for the RPI's HDMI to VGA converter it seems to push out interference at 118Mhz and the SNRM will drop the DS by 0.4-0.5 dB, so i'll be going back to fuzzy composite on the Rasberry PI untill i get a new tv which has a HDMI input :)
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While I installed the CAT6 RJ11 to RJ11 cable also decided to remove SSFP MK3 and replace it with MK1 (standard SSFP) and watch the CRC's and ES's for 20 hours.
The CRC spikes with the MK1 inplace are much higher than with the MK3, for an example a light switch causes 10 CRC's on the MK1 and 2 CRC's with the MK3, so the SSFP MK3 is clearly the winner and why it's installed again on the master socket ;)
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The CRC spikes with the MK1 inplace are much higher than with the MK3, for an example a light switch causes 10 CRC's on the MK1 and 2 CRC's with the MK3, so the SSFP MK3 is clearly the winner and why it's installed again on the master socket ;)
:thumbs:
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There is one last thing to do concerning internal household broadband wireing and that's the data extension cable from master socket up to roofspace and down to extension socket it will require no more than 7 meter and have only three meters left of CW1308 cable after it was used to connect BT80 to master socket (3 meters).
Do I buy 8 meters of CW1308 cable or purchase 8 meters of cat6 RJ11 to RJ11 cable and do away with the data socket (plugged direct into SSFP and up into roofspace and down to the modem)
the CW1308 cable would be my fist choice as it's slim and easy to terminate the CAT6 with an RJ11 plug is thick and will require me to make a larger hole in the ceilings.
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I would go for a Cat5e cable, fitted with an RJ45 plug at one end and unterminated at the other end. Feed the unterminated end of the cable up into the roof space and then down to the modem's location. Then fit an RJ11 socket at that location.
So at the NTE5/A + Mk 3 SSFP the RJ45 plug is inserted into the "top" socket of the SSFP. At the modem, use a patch cable from the RJ11 socket to the modem's RJ11 socket.
I would suggest that you purchase one of these (https://claritybroadband.co.uk/clxcart/BT-Openreach-Line-Engineer-s-xDSL-Extension-Kit.html), 10 metres length and with the standard RJ11 socket to fit at the modem's location. Current cost = £11.80
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I would suggest that you purchase one of these
But don't spend a penny at the linked location - Clarity IT. It seems they aren't sending things out, or responding to anyone's attempts at contact. They didn't deliver something to me in October.
http://forums.thinkbroadband.com/hwsuppliers/4284541-clarity-anyone-used-them-recently-as-no-replies-to-email.html?fpart=all
http://forums.thinkbroadband.com/hwsuppliers/4355671-clarity-broadband.html?fpart=all
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The only comment I have to make is that my experience with the company (Clarity) has always been positive. Ordering, delivery and communication . . .
(To be perfectly honest, I just don't have the patience to attempt to read through some nebulous threads in a Thinkbroadband forum. If you want to make b*cat truly grumpy just mention the Thinkbroadband fora . . . And yes, I do recognise regulars from "over there" as members "over here"! ;) )
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I would go for a Cat5e cable, fitted with an RJ45 plug at one end and unterminated at the other end. Feed the unterminated end of the cable up into the roof space and then down to the modem's location. Then fit an RJ11 socket at that location.
I have the RJ11 socket inplace that was installed by OpenReach engineer during the fibre install
and when testing the SSFP MK1 to MK3 always have to re-terminate the A and B wires on the SSFP socket to (data socket) which is a pain in the arse :(
So it would be great if the one end of the Cat5e was fitted with the RJ45 or RJ11 as both types of plugs seem to fit nicely into the SSFP upper broadband socket and i don't have a crimping tool for the RJ11 or RJ45 and push the Cat5e cable up into roofspace and then terminate the pair to RJ11 socket job done.
it's just the amount of roof space insulation thats the problem we have 4 inch's of the old fibre glass stuff up there plus 12 inch's of the new stuff it's not an easy job as it took me ages over Xmas to find and track the original Broadband extension cable up there wear gloves and a mask and safety glasses :ouch:
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I won't mention the T word then ;)
The only comment I have to make is that my experience with the company (Clarity) has always been positive. Ordering, delivery and communication . . .
But is that recent?
Anyway, thanks for the reminder ... I'd let my complaint lapse without going off to the bank for a chargeback; I got too busy trying to get BT to just put a line in - no hurry for a data extension when there is nothing to extend! Having just looked at their website, I now have a different way to contact them to request a refund before pressing the button.
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I won't mention the T word then ;)
It's a funny old forum that T, i'm registered but never use it, the layout and other stuff looks alien to me and it's just second hand knowledge from the Kitz forum :D
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Whats this I see in my SNRM DS :-\
Does not show up on MyDslStats even stranger :-\
OMG see the CRC spike :o
EDIT its ok a retrain reason 1 came into force at 23:22 :)
RDI: Remote Defect Indicator/DLM
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But is that recent?
A fair question deserves an answer. (It really depends upon the meaning associated with the word recent! ;) How long is a piece of string?) Thinking back, I believe is was about 18 months ago . . . So not that recent.
I see that the web-site has been redesigned and the tld has changed from .it to .co.uk . . . so perhaps your unhappy experience occurred around the time that those changes were being made. :-\ However you have a valid complaint that still needs to be addressed and resolved. :(
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I have the RJ11 socket inplace that was installed by OpenReach engineer during the fibre install
and when testing the SSFP MK1 to MK3 always have to re-terminate the A and B wires on the SSFP socket to (data socket) which is a pain in the arse :(
So it would be great if the one end of the Cat5e was fitted with the RJ45 or RJ11 as both types of plugs seem to fit nicely into the SSFP upper broadband socket and i don't have a crimping tool for the RJ11 or RJ45 and push the Cat5e cable up into roofspace and then terminate the pair to RJ11 socket job done.
b*cat nods in agreement.
So what you need to do is to order 10 metres of Cat5e cable (solid core and not multi-stranded patch cable) with an RJ45 plug pre-fitted at one end. I will guess that is something Mr Telephone (http://stores.ebay.co.uk/Mr-Telephone-Supplies) would be able to supply. :)
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Nothing but praise for that guy MR Telephone and makes my DIY jobs easier + cost effective to.
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Unsure what kind of cable is used on original data extension at the moment it's white and thinner than CW1308 it has solid 2 pairs (4 cores) and they are coloured white blue brown and brown and it's definitely the untwisted type as when i stip away the outer white plastic to expose the pairs.
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That's the cheap and nasty stuff which is quite unsuitable for telephone extensions when the line is used for DSL. It's commonly used for alarm cabling.
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Most alarm cabling is 6-core (Well it was when I used to fir them as foreigners). It's also stranded cable rather than solid-core.
2 cores - pos and neg
2 cores - N/C circuit
2 cores - Tamper
As Eric states though, it does sound like the un-twisted cabling which is terrible at keeping 'noise' out of the circuit. :)
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As Eric states though, it does sound like the un-twisted cabling which is terrible at keeping 'noise' out of the circuit. :)
Well you both agree it's unsuitable and that's the feeling i've had since reading the kitz forums, that odd extension cable was thrown up from M/socket to roofs space in the early days of DSL 256K-512K yet the OR engineer who installed my FTTC (3 years ago) said the cable would be ok as long as the bends are no more than 30 degrees :-\
Anyway the 10 meter CAT5e extension cable has been ordered and will know by the weekend if it does decrease noise on the circuit :fingers:
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:fingers: :) :)
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Unsure what kind of cable is used on original data extension at the moment it's white and thinner than CW1308 it has solid 2 pairs (4 cores) and they are coloured white blue brown and brown and it's definitely the untwisted type as when i stip away the outer white plastic to expose the pairs.
:o :tongue: Nasty! :(
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Yeah he does say that alot yeah :blush:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=trFUjOPPutM&x-yt-cl=85027636&x-yt-ts=1422503916 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=trFUjOPPutM&x-yt-cl=85027636&x-yt-ts=1422503916)
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The only point of his policy with which I would disagree is his usage of solid core cable when making a patch cable. Patch cables need to have stranded conductors to allow flexibility. :-X
Regarding RJ11 and RJ45 plugs: An RJ11 has six connectors and an RJ45 has eight connectors. The top socket of a SSFP is designed to accept an RJ45 plug. The pair of connectors used in that socket are numbers 4 & 5 (the middle two). So when a RJ45 plug is used, it is plug connectors 4 & 5 but when an RJ11 plug is used, it is plug connectors 3 & 4.
When your new 10 metres of Cat5e cable, with a pre-fitted RJ45 plug, arrives you will need to either visually or electrically check which colour wires are connected to connectors 4 & 5 of the plug. Obviously they are the two wires that will have to be connected to 3 & 4 at the data extension (RJ11) socket.
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When your new 10 metres of Cat5e cable, with a pre-fitted RJ45 plug, arrives you will need to either visually or electrically check which colour wires are connected to connectors 4 & 5 of the plug. Obviously they are the two wires that will have to be connected to 3 & 4 at the data extension (RJ11) socket.
Yes B*CAT was thinking about which pairs are being used on the RJ11 this evening, the CAT5e has arrived and is being tested as i type, direct from the SSFP MK3 upper socket RJ45 and down the hallway and then into the room were the HG612 resides and then is connected using the RJ11 end of cable.
No major changes to this RFI (Radio China & Radio Lithuania) as expected because that's coming in from the openreach side and 100% confident of that now ;D
there is difference to the QLN i can see the end on the D2 band plus the start of the U2 band and have never seen this before on graphs, have attached the before and after graphs :-\
As for CRC's and ES''s thats going to take longer to see the difference and i think there must have been a lighting strike as the CRC shows a spike of 68 and it was in Lisburn 25 miles from me.
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. . . was thinking about which pairs are being used on the RJ11 this evening, the CAT5e has arrived and is being tested as i type, direct from the SSFP MK3 upper socket RJ45 and down the hallway and then into the room were the HG612 resides and then is connected using the RJ11 end of cable.
:thumbs:
there is difference to the QLN i can see the end on the D2 band plus the start of the U2 band and have never seen this before on graphs, have attached the before and after graphs :-\
I see that the frequency range has increased a little bit, so you should have a few more usable tones. :)
As for CRC's and ES''s thats going to take longer to see the difference
K5 is an expert in that field. ;)
. . . i think there must have been a lighting strike as the CRC shows a spike of 68 and it was in Lisburn 25 miles from me.
If it was a cloud-to-cloud discharge, being so high up, the "circle of influence" on the ground would be very large. (Think of an alien space-ship, hight up there, shining a light source towards the earth. From the light source (which could be regarded as a point source) the beam of light is an effective cone, getting ever wider the further it travels from the space-ship.)
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it was a cloud-to-cloud discharge, being so high up, the "circle of influence" on the ground would be very large. (Think of an alien space-ship, hight up there, shining a light source towards the earth. From the light source (which could be regarded as a point source) the beam of light is an effective cone, getting ever wider the further it travels from the space-ship.)
I would never have thought you were the Storm Chaser type ;)
The preliminary short term results of the this cable looks promising and it will find it's place in the loft this weekend if it keep on this linear path.
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there is difference to the QLN i can see the end on the D2 band plus the start of the U2 band and have never seen this before on graphs, have attached the before and after graphs
Um. You might want to think about what was different about your physical connection from the point you reconnected and on for about 35 mins?
The attached are your Upstream SNRM/Band and Bits/Tone plots from that period. From reconnect at 17:49 through to 18:26 you picked up nearly 6db of the U3 band (from 0dB) and then abruptly it went away again. There was little effect on the equivalent D/S plot.
Your Bits/Tone for 18:00 (using Historic view option) taken within that period shows a whole 2 extra bits :o (from none) on U3 but probably had little real effect - no sign of these extras bits at 17:00 or 19:00 or before/after.
The Upstream Line Attenuation U3 also shot up from zero at 17:49 but has stayed there. Also SNR/Tone shows a change from 18:00 onwards with the extra upstream tones appearing all the time now.
If you can remember what you did, you might be able to improve on it for Upstream (if you think it's worth the effort)?
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Well spotted tbailey2 :)
In the pbParams Medley Phase it's now showing an extra US band (1972,2034) with the CAT5e cable installed, and have noticed in the US SNR per band U2 is available the (Red line on DSLstats and Green on MDWS) but i must be right on the edge as you have pointed out it seems to come and go as the SNRm changes over 24 hours.
Discovery Phase (Initial) Band Plan
US: (7,32) (871,1205) (1972,2782)
DS: (33,859) (1216,1961) (2793,3970)
Medley Phase (Final) Band Plan
US: (7,32) (871,1205) (1972,2034)
DS: (33,859) (1216,1961)
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Cat5 cable installed to-day with RJ45 from master socket up the wall into loft and then down to where the HG612 resides with RJ11 plug still intact.
I was able to make the holes on both ceilings a wee bit wider from 4mm to 10mm didn't think the RJ11 plug would survive the process as it took some force into the entry point and exit point and is still feed into RJ11 socket as it has a removable panel for the cable to exit.
Job done, so the extra US Band we saw must have been a flook as has not appeared again after two 30 minute modem power downs for maintenance and tbh those extra US tones seemed to have a negative effect on the U0 ???
unfortunately have rebooted the modem during the time when SNRm is at it's highest point (early afternoon) and as you know on my line the SNRm starts to drop (late afternoon) and will lose 1dB of DS SNRm by the evening it's a pain in backside.
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Cat5 cable installed to-day with RJ45 from master socket up the wall into loft and then down to where the HG612 resides with RJ11 plug still intact.
I was able to make the holes on both ceilings a wee bit wider from 4mm to 10mm didn't think the RJ11 plug would survive the process as it took some force into the entry point and exit point and is still feed into RJ11 socket as it has a removable panel for the cable to exit.
b*cat iz now confuddled. ??? Me thought that you had a RJ11 socket fitted in the room with the modem and your new cable was a "special" from Mr Telephone Supplies (a length of Cat5e cable, with an RJ45 plug pre-fitted at one end and left without any plug at the other end). I thought that once the cable had been successfully installed, you would be making the appropriate connection to the IDCs of the pre-existing RJ11 socket. The connection to the modem from the socket would then be made with an RJ11 to RJ11 patch lead.
Congratulations on the latest fix, in removing that suspect cable from the circuit. :thumbs: Perhaps you just need to wait for the appropriate conditions, at the optimum time of day and then re-synchronise the modem with the DSLAM? :-\
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b*cat iz now confuddled. ??? Me thought that you had a RJ11 socket fitted in the room with the modem and your new cable was a "special" from Mr Telephone Supplies (a length of Cat5e cable, with an RJ45 plug pre-fitted at one end and left without any plug at the other end).
I just ordered the 10m CAT5e cable with the RJ45 and RJ11 plugs at each end from MR T and used this during testing on friday and saturday and when the cable had passed my tests and ready for the loft install i was ready to snip off the RJ11 plug to make it easier to push cable up and down and then terminate the pairs to RJ11 socket.
But I changed my mind during the install and expanded the ceiling holes reason being why not just keep the cable from the master socket to modem as a continuous cable feed and do away with termination points (RJ11 Socket).
And B*CAT you were spot on with 10 meters as there is only 2 meters spare left to HG612 :thumbs:
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Ah, the picture now "comes through" a lot clearer. :)
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Ah, the picture now "comes through" a lot clearer. :)
Glad I could make the picture sharper ;)
I am at the DS SNRm point of 4.5dB that's normally a automatic resync for me will leave it to see what happens CRC's ok but errored second counts for 1 hour are getting close to 24 on the DS it's usually about 14 at this time with 2000 kbps less on the DS
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That's the end of project 08 and many thanks to all on the Kitz forum that has helped me to improve my strange FTTC line over the last year and a big thanks go's out to burrakkucat for enduring & helping me though this learning curve :thumbs: :thumbs: :thumbs:
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b*cat performs one of his best Japanese style bows (whilst blushing). :blush:
Always happy to help (when I can). :)
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The US extra tones U2 was not a fluke of nature they back and are consistant, the reason why this appeared the first time was due to using the cat5e cable with the SSFP MK3 then decided to use the standard SSFP and the US extra tones (U2) disapeared from the Bandplan.
So have the MK3 back inplace i know my (U2) band has very little bit's is nothing to write home about but it does say you can improve your broadband with proper internal cabling.
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b*cat nods whilst thinking about the Tesco slogan: "Every little helps."
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b*cat nods whilst thinking about the Tesco slogan: "Every little helps."
I look forward to the SSFP MK4 for a little more help and that MK2 just throw it in the bin :thumbdown:
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My next project 09 will be to mount the HG612 close to the master socket and use a small patch cable from SSFP to HG612 (RJ11 to RJ11) and then use two cat5 cables one for the modem and the other from the Lan2 port on HG612 to modem to gather stats.
As there is quite a lot of electronic equipment in the PC room this experiment is to see if the HG612 modem picks up less interference when it's isolated (moved further away) from possible disturbers.
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Update will cancel project 09 and go to project 10 UPS as most of the crc's/errored seconds come in through the mains via the power supply unit to HG612 it's time to look into some UPS units this one seems cheap http://www.ebuyer.com/113906-apc-be400-uk-240-watts-400-va-input-230v-output-230v-back-ups-be400-uk (http://www.ebuyer.com/113906-apc-be400-uk-240-watts-400-va-input-230v-output-230v-back-ups-be400-uk)
But all I want is the HG612 and Router to be isolated from the mains and use the ups to supply power.
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Perhaps you should try running the modem and router from a fully charged car battery before spending any money on an UPS? :-\
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Perhaps you should try running the modem and router from a fully charged car battery before spending any money on an UPS? :-\
I did that for a while in order to eliminate any potentially mains borne interference from within my home, but using a motorised golf trolley battery rather than a car battery, in conjunction with a laptop running on its own battery power.
It did serve its purpose, in that it confirmed my mains power as 'clean'.
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Perhaps you should try running the modem and router from a fully charged car battery before spending any money on an UPS? :-\
I don't have a spare car battery the only one I have is in the car, though I do have a portable car battery jump starter one like this.
Would it work ?
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I suspect you could use it. :-\ My understanding of such devices is that they have a sealed lead-acid battery inside. So ensure that it is fully charged and then connect the two devices, ensuring that you observe the correct polarity.
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I suspect you could use it. :-\ My understanding of such devices is that they have a sealed lead-acid battery inside. So ensure that it is fully charged and then connect the two devices, ensuring that you observe the correct polarity.
Great the one I have has a cigarette socket output and have that adapter to a 2.5mm female DC plug so it may be an easy job to setup, will be sure the polarity is correct before any attempt to connect the device ;)
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You could do with a small fuse (say 2 or 3 amps) in the lead from that unit as a lead acid battery can push out a lot of current and could set a fire if you had a short.
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Have just pulled the jump starter out of car boot and I am testing the cigarette socket output to a 2.5mm female DC plug and its showing 12.74V inner being + and outer being -
So all should be good to go once I'm ready :-X scary or what :o
Ps if you don't see me posting here for quite a few days you will know the experiment failed IE: the HG612 got fried :(
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Have just tested the car jump starter on the D-Link DSL-2640B and it powers on and does it's business :) it's looking for an ADSL signal :D
EDIT: now on battery power
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EDIT: now on battery power
:thumbs:
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It did serve its purpose, in that it confirmed my mains power as 'clean'.
Thats kind of what i have found with 6 hours on the battery power and 6 hours using the mains power and no big changes though i would have preferred a much longer test period of 4 days but don't know how long the battery could keep the device's running before getting close to low voltage which can also stress out electronic componets.
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I get a small reduction in total ES by using a BT mains conditioner of only about 10-20% but there is a much bigger reduction in CRC and the odd SES. I concluded that my mains carried noise is just odd spikes and not the main background noise. Just running the modem on the conditioned mains give most of this benefit but better results came if the modem and router are on the mains conditioner and there is only wireless access to the router. I guess noise goes up the Ethernet cables from other devices.
if you try again I would look to see if the CRC's rather than the ES change. I found the odd CRC spikes (only giving one ES) had the number of CRC in the spikes markedly reduced.
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if you try again I would look to see if the CRC's rather than the ES change. I found the odd CRC spikes (only giving one ES) had the number of CRC in the spikes markedly reduced.
Cheers les-70 I it was facinating running the modem on battery power though my testing was during the quiet time 1am to 6am which was not a good test, yet i'll be honest kind of worried with all the modem off's and on's the DLM will intervene on this weird fastpath + interleaved line.
And getting this modem reboot right due to strange DS SNRm swings is just adding to the complexity to keep the errored seconds away from the red zone.
EDIT: back on battery power at 18:28 i'll let it run for a 24 hour period if the battery holds that is.
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So back to the SNRM swing it's not the mains it's not the internal wiring and it's not the BT pair their line shows only 1 omh of a difference.
So how is this RFI getting into my Modem (HG612) if it's none of the above ???
Could the RFI be infiltrating the modem via the electronic components inside and this seems to be a reasonable theory, as if you remember back to the old tv's the tuner section was sheilded and earthed from the rest of the circuitry this was to isolate any other RFI inside the TV getting to the tuner.
So some sensitive components inside the HG612 may not be shielded from outside RFI :-\
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I am not sure which specific issue is concerning you. Generally all lines pick up RFI along their full length from the DSLAM. Twisted pair is not perfect so differential pick up occurs and RFI tends to be worse with overhead cables. A common mode filter as in Mark 2 or 3 will attenuated common mode noise but with have no impact on differential noise.
Your SNRM shows an evening drop which is normal in residential areas but varies in degree. The drop is usually a mixture of max cross talk with most lines connected and also most other electrical devices switched on, and also on and off. A mains filter might have reduced some of your errors if any are due to noise on the mains but I think you said that you only tested the battery during the quiet night hours. If so a day time test when errors are higher would be of interest.
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I am not sure which specific issue is concerning you. Generally all lines pick up RFI along their
Yes understand Les-70 it's I have to give up 3000kbps on the DS to keep the SNRm close to 6dB in the evenings and yes can see a few others with the day time and evening SNRm swings due to RFI just can't find out why some lines have it an others do not :-\
Yet their are some MDWS user's who have an even longer line than myself who's DS SNRm is steady 24/7 ie: only swinging by 0.5dB
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Well the good news is the radio propagation has started to shift it's time again as the sun is now setting later each evening and the effects of RFI don't start coming in until 16:45 where as it's been 15:20 for the last 3 months.
Its kind of funny we look forward to the summer for light and heat yet my modem enjoys the extra daytime hours even more :D
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The ES max counts on your line match peak time home internet and electrical appliance use and on/off's. I can't see the timing of your ES's changing on MDSWS and they are a minimum soon after midnight. The timing of RFI may well be visible in the tones but I wonder if broadcast radio based RFI is really your lines problem.
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but I wonder if broadcast radio based RFI is really your lines problem.
It's difficult to convey Les, internal electirical home appliances do put a strain on the modem but the external RFI then makes things much worse.
I can tell you those shortwave broadcasting stations don't help one bit in the SNRM as it just adds more noise into the normal household evening accumulation of noise.
Now the guys who live close to the PCP cabinet don't have to worry to much about evening RFI from shortwave as the line will have a much stronger signal to the modem and drown out the effects of RFI.
The Longer line has a lessor signal so any strong shortwave stations will be picked up as noise and the SNRM will fall as the propagation gets stronger after sunset.
It's definitely shortwave broadcasting radio stations that cause my SNRM to drop and rise.
you can see in the graph by the pointer the start of shortwave radio propagation.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shortwave_radio (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shortwave_radio)
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As far as the SNRM is concerned I agree that broadcast radio RFI looks to be the likely issue. My comment concerned the ES rates, the RFI won't be helping the ES but to me it looks like broadcast radio is not your biggest ES cause, the ES timing does not look a good match to SNRM. You might want to try overlaying the SNRM and ES rates to see how well one explains the other or not.
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N*Star, having followed the progress of everything that you have done over the last few months, I don't think there is anything else you now can do. :( You have taken steps to eradicate (or minimise) all local sources of interference to your circuit. It is just unfortunate that your location appears to be optimally placed to receive those broadcast transmissions via reflections between the ionosphere and the Earth and that no practical differential circuit will fully reject a common-mode signal. :no:
We must remember that any xDSL service in the U.K. is provided on a "best effort" basis and what you currently receive is the best that Beattie Bellman's Openreach can provide.
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It is just unfortunate that your location appears to be optimally placed to receive those broadcast transmissions via reflections between the ionosphere and the Earth and that no practical differential circuit will fully reject a common-mode signal. :no:
Your right of course and have fully accepted the cause and the effect it has on my broadband, I am just doing my best to inform other users out there what the symptoms look like incase others fall into this never ending loop ;)
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Yes, I understand. (It's rather like chasing one's own tail!) :)
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Yes, I understand. (It's rather like chasing one's own tail!) :)
Though I am getting concerned with TBailey2 SNRM swings they are to low and could trigger the DLM if it hasn't already :o
But I do have a suggestion and that is to resync the FTTC modem when the SNRM is at it's lowest point it will lower the sync but the SNRM will be restored close to the 6dB target margin.
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Obviously the SNRM swing itself would not concern the DLM but it is the subsequent CRCs, FECs and ES' when the margin drops to a lower level. It is surprising just how many CRCs my circuit experiences when the SNRM drops to between 3.0 & 3.5 dB (DS). (For me, of course, it is just an inconvenience as the only result is an increase in the time any action takes . . . Not having any form of DLM monitoring my circuit. :) )
I haven't looked at Tony's statistics because I am still monitoring big360's circuit but I could use all four panes that are available in MWDS . . .
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Had to large BT van's doing stuff in another manhole cover to-day at around 1 pm it seems what ever they were doing this time caused the VDSL2 to resync at 2pm, I must have two crosstalk user when looking at SNRM graph.
Kind of getting sick and tired of syncing the modem when the SNRm is at it's lowest point to keep the SNRm close to 6.0dB as i just don't like getting close to 5dB but I don't if it would harm the the current profile :-\
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To be honest, I'm not sure what to make of your graph where it shows a couple of stalagmites. :-\
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I see the Aurora activity is keeping the SNRM up this evening
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Since being moved onto this new G.INP profile the errors are so much lower IE: errored seconds and crc's so thats less to worry about, though the DS SNRM still swings over 24 hours and at the moment the DS connection speed is 2000 kbps higher than the DS attainable the DS SNRM does not drop below 5.1dB
Would it be ok to leave it like this as theres no signs of any increased errored seconds or crc's when the DS SNRM is low ?
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Assuming that you are not experiencing any loss of throughput, then I would think there will be no problem with a DS SNR dropping to around 5 dB.
(Some years ago, when I was experimenting with an HG612 as a modem/router on my ADSL2 circuit, there was one evening when I was subjected to prolonged RFI. The DS SNR dropped from the target margin of 6 dB and slowly fell to -1.9 dB. (Yes, minus, as the "noise" was "louder" than the wanted signal.) The throughput decreased as the SNR decreased. By the time the SNR reached 0 dB there was virtually no usable throughput.)
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Great B*CAT there's no loss of thoughput that i can see here on this line and have forgotten Bald_Eagles1 formula to convert sync rate to IP profile and vice versa :blush:
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IP Profile should be approximately 96.79% of sync speed or sync speed should be IP Profile multiplied by 1.033
e.g. 40 Mbps sync speed = 38.72 Mbps IP Profile
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IP Profile should be approximately 96.79% of sync speed or sync speed should be IP Profile multiplied by 1.033
e.g. 40 Mbps sync speed = 38.72 Mbps IP Profile
Thankyou BE1 i have been searching the Kitz forums and couldn't find what i was looking for.
Using the 96.79% of my current sync speed of 33499 the result is 32423 kbps yet when I run the ookla speed tester the result is less ->
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On a good day, your throughput could be up to around 97% of your IP profile.
So, 97% of 32423 = 31450.
One of those speed test was quite close to that.
What results & IP Profile do you get from the further diagnostics in the BT speed tester?
(http://speedtest.btwholesale.com)
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What results & IP Profile do you get from the further diagnostics in the BT speed tester?
(http://speedtest.btwholesale.com)
Here it is BE1
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Thats good as I have a feeling some users still seem to think the connection speed/sync on there stats program is there overall thoughput of there internet :no:
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As mentioned in the G.INP enabled Stats Comparison thread, it seems that IP Profile with G.INP active is now 96.69% of sync speed rather than the previous 96.79%
That is only based on yours, ADSLMax's & my connections though.
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Same 77.35 IP profile here to, now G.inp'd so that theory is probably correct,