Kitz Forum
Broadband Related => ISPs => Topic started by: Broadband1 on February 04, 2008, 05:54:43 PM
-
Hi everyone i've been on BT Broadband Option1 with the Supposedly good "BT Home Hub" :lol: is there any steps ican take to improve my 500k IP Profile as i have Low Attenuation And Fairly High SNR Margin
-
Hi there and welcome.
Have a read of http://www.kitz.co.uk/adsl/lowSNR.htm for some tips on optimising your setup (don't be put off by the references to low SNR, the advice applies anyway). If you could let us know your router stats we could suggest what might be achievable on your line.
-
ok on my Home Network Setup im running on a BT HomeHub with a 54MB Wireless Belkin Adapter
DSL Connection
Link Information
Uptime: 0 days, 6:03:29
Modulation: G.992.1 Annex A
Bandwidth (Up/Down) [kbps/kbps]: 256 / 576
Data Transferred (Sent/Received) [MB/MB]: 21.00 / 68.00
Output Power (Up/Down) [dBm]: 12.0 / 11.0
Line Attenuation (Up/Down) [dB]: 13.0 / 26.0
SN Margin (Up/Down) [dB]: 21.0 / 30.5
Vendor ID (Local/Remote): TMMB / TSTC
Loss of Framing (Local/Remote): 0 / 0
Loss of Signal (Local/Remote): 2 / 0
Loss of Power (Local/Remote): 0 / 0
Loss of Link (Remote): 0
Error Seconds (Local/Remote): 28 / 0
FEC Errors (Up/Down): 0 / 21
CRC Errors (Up/Down): 0 / 62
HEC Errors (Up/Down): 0 / 1
-
Your connection speeds ('bandwidth' in your stats) look a bit odd, and much lower than should be achievable on your line with its fairly low attenuation. I suggest that you switch off the router, give it a few seconds, then switch it on again to see if it comes up with a better speed. You'll have to monitor your stats regularly to see if they change by a large amount at any time, for example when making or answering telephone calls, or when switching electrical appliances on or off. There seems to be something badly wrong, but it there are lots of possible reasons.
-
I've just done that and seeing as you think those Stats should be getting higher speed then GREAT ;D but i have switched off all eletricals in my house and changed the Wireless Channels but no improvements.
-
I've just done that and seeing as you think those Stats should be getting higher speed then GREAT ;D but i have switched off all eletricals in my house and changed the Wireless Channels but no improvements.
It could simply be BT throttling you?
-
just for the record what does throttling mean :( and please tell me I dont need to Call Indoia to sort it
-
It could simply be BT throttling you?
Surely the sync speed would not also be low if it was throttling. (throttling = they are slowing you down from what the line is capable of)
Sounds to me like a stuck bRas profile.
You won't only have to call India, you'll have to go through all their tests, and I don't know how you convince India to fix it ... I think you have to make level 2 support to do that. Maybe someone here has a shortcut.
-
Damn it last time i called India i couldn't understand anything they were saying and they were treating me as if i don't know the basics
-
No, it's not throttling, and it's not a stuck IP profile for the same reason. If it were either of these things the router would still be connecting at a much higher speed.
It seems to me that it could well be a faulty router. The upstream connection speed is also lower than it should be, and that's quite unusual. If it were caused by interference I would have expected a much lower noise margin. Would it be possible for you to beg borrow or steal a different router to try out?
-
umm i've got a LinkSys Wireless Router i'll give that a go
-
Nope Still exactly the same stats and i used my Laptop to connect to my neighbours Wireless Access (BT Also) his broadband has High Noise in the 50+db range and hes getting about 3.4MB/s :'(
-
Well whatever the problem is it's been happening since i got ADSL2+ back in ADSL2+ before that i was on Satellite Broadband maybe ADSL isn't for me
-
Are you sure you have ADSL2+? As far as I know, that's only available on cable.
-
well i was told i was capable of some form of ADSL so i just assumed it was ADSL2+ but Hey i'm no expert really but is there anything i can do to improve my speeds or do i just have to live with 500k with "supposedly" good Line Stats
-
Your on a 0.5mb fixed speed service, figures look good for max/rate adaptive. the only thing is crc errors is creeping up to a figure which may require you to monitor a bit, around 60-70 crc errors (non interleaved) starts to become a concern, once over 110-120 then it's a definate issue
-
You may be right about the fixed speed service, but the upstream speed of 256 isn't right - it should be 288 for a fixed speed service. That's what's puzzling me a bit.
-
but thats where the problem is im not on a 500k Fixed Rate service im on an Upto 8Meg service whilst living between 1 - 1.5km away from my Exchange soo if it's confusing you guys the im totally lost :(
-
Im sorry guys if im confusing you but im sort of new as my poor speeds i thought it was normal but maybe it isnt you can continue trying to lead me in the correct direction if you want Thanks
-
Could you check your actual speed here
http://www.speedtest.bbmax.co.uk/
-
on the Test my speed is 498kbps and seeing as my Conncetion Rate is 576kbps im guessing my IP Profile would be 500kbps soo my line is nearly maxing my IP Profile :)
-
Im sorry guys if im confusing you but im sort of new as my poor speeds i thought it was normal but maybe it isnt you can continue trying to lead me in the correct direction if you want Thanks
Don't worry. We want to help, but your situation is a bit puzzling (to me at least). With your stats you should be able to get the full 8128 kbps connection speed or pretty close to it. Now you've checked with another router and got the same result I confess to being baffled. Maybe you have been put on a fixed speed service by mistake, and if that's the case then I'm afraid that the call centre is where you'll need to go. But I'm hoping that someone else will turn up with more ideas.
-
I hope i dont get sent to the Call Centres :'( the people there are USELESS or should i buy a brand new router and see what happens from there
-
sorry call centre
2 reasons why I said you're on a fixed speed service.
1/4mb upstream not 0.5mb (ish)
30.5 downstream snr. very good snr for a fixed speed, max/rate adaptive you'll never get any where near sync with that figure quoted
-
Those stats are weird. Like eric says you would normally expect the upstream to be 288.
I was wondering about a traditional fixed speed - but its not - the prescence of FEC errors indicate the line is interleaved so it has to be on MAX.
The atten should be giving the line more than that - and theres plenty of spare SNR Margin.
However, with the large amount of spare SNR - I wouldnt expect to see that many CRC errors, Errored seconds.. and 2 loss of signals.
Now wondering fixed rate MAX by the DLM due to past performance issues?
Could this line perhaps be seeing noise spikes that the 6 hour period up hasnt shown as yet? Could it be a large spike (surge) that knocks the connection out before it racks up 100's of errors?
Where is your router plugged in? Is it on an extension or master socket.
Plugging in your router direct into the test socket (http://www.kitz.co.uk/adsl/troubleshooting.htm) behind the master socket is normally the next step.. but if you are on a fixed MAX line then the sync wouldnt change.
If the Btw performance checker (http://www.kitz.co.uk/adsl/btwperformancetest.htm) was working then it may show up that you are on an assured rate service. (it gets very busy in the eves).
If you could configure routerstats (http://www.vwlowen.co.uk/internet/files.htm) to work with your router, then it may (or may not) show some interesting results if you let it record the SNR Margin over a longer period of time.
-----------------
[edit - my post made at the same time as Ezzers and our posts crossed]
-
My Router is using the Main Phone Socket as my Extension uses a tottally different phone number but quite a while ago i was recieving 7.1MBPS then it started dropping BT ran Line Check said my line was Perfect but wierdly as my Speed Dropped My Line Attenuation Dropped
-
I just used DMT to run a Re-Sync to my Exchange now these are my Stats:
DSL Connection
Link Information
Uptime: 0 days, 0:11:04
Modulation: G.992.1 Annex A
Bandwidth (Up/Down) [kbps/kbps]: 288 / 576
Data Transferred (Sent/Received) [MB/MB]: 1.03 / 4.31
Output Power (Up/Down) [dBm]: 11.5 / 14.0
Line Attenuation (Up/Down) [dB]: 13.0 / 26.0
SN Margin (Up/Down) [dB]: 24.0 / 30.5
Vendor ID (Local/Remote): TMMB / TSTC
Loss of Framing (Local/Remote): 0 / 0
Loss of Signal (Local/Remote): 6 / 0
Loss of Power (Local/Remote): 0 / 0
Loss of Link (Remote): 0
Error Seconds (Local/Remote): 54 / 0
FEC Errors (Up/Down): 0 / 0
CRC Errors (Up/Down): 0 / 22
HEC Errors (Up/Down): 0 / 4
-
>> Dropped My Line Attenuation Dropped
hmmm that should not happen - attenuation should be more or less a static figure - changes in attenuation are normally indicative of a fault on the phone line.... but even then if the attenuation dropped, this is when you in theory should be getting the better speeds.
An indication perhaps that at one point there was some sort of fault on the line? Which is when the fixed rate profile could have been applied?
Out of interest can you do a quiet line test? (Dial 17070 and select option 2.)
----
More post crossing lol
Just looking at your new stats - increased LOS - now at 6
-
im running the test but the machine is just saying quiet line test :(
-
is there anything i should while on the test ??
-
If you cant hear anything then that indicates the line is fine.
Crackling or hissing indicates a problem.
--------------
I'm still puzzling over the LoS increase.
As ezzer says you may have to bite the dust on this one and contact your ISP and ask them to investigate why your line which has a 26dB attenuation and should therefore be capable of near 8Mb is being limited to 512 kb. :/
-
not with the quiet line test, all this has is a basic 50v running down the line with no pstn (voice) signal/noise transmitted apart from the "quiet line test" every 30-40 seconds or whatever time period it is.
If you hear nothing, then this is good. it's common to hear a faint low hum which is mains electric noise picked up. a slow click or heart beat noise is usually electric animal enclosure fencing. any other noise, try another phone (if your using a cordless phone, this dosn't mean another slave phone on the same cordless group.) if the same noise is there then there may be an issue on your line
By the way KITZ the 17070 test is striclty speaking for openreach enginners only. if you ever see an enginner repeatedly typing a few numbers on their butt phone & muttering under their breath it's because the tester is too busy (often because too many people know about it)
-
By the way KITZ the 17070 test is striclty speaking for openreach enginners only. if you ever see an enginner repeatedly typing a few numbers on their butt phone & muttering under their breath it's because the tester is too busy (often because too many people know about it)
But trying for more detailed tests (opt3,1,2) it asks for a mobile or pin number, so I presume BT have made this area 'engineers only' .... they could surely also protect the quiet line test if they wanted to. I wonder if I put my own mobile number in would the advanced tests work ?
-
I would be wary of using any test other than the quiet line test. I'm sure I've read somewhere that BT can get quite uppity about people trying to use the other tests, but tolerate use of the quiet line test.
-
Soo to sort this out i got to call India :( or i live with crappy speed
-
I'm afraid it looks like it. :(
-
alright then ill get right on it but will there be anything i need
-
ill just use the KITZ thing that lets u see ur Max speed judging by ur attenuation and stuff
-
well these are the result i have
Estimation of your maximum rate adaptive adsl speed
Downstream Attenuation 27dB
Approx Line Length 1.96km
dslMAX 8128kbps
IP Profile 7150kbps
adsl2+ 17056kbps
Throughput 15095kbps
Are those any good or Sh*t
and my Home Hub Stats are
Link Information
Uptime: 0 days, 4:23:28
Modulation: G.992.1 Annex A
Bandwidth (Up/Down) [kbps/kbps]: 288 / 576
Data Transferred (Sent/Received) [MB/MB]: 2.37 / 24.59
Output Power (Up/Down) [dBm]: 11.5 / 17.0
Line Attenuation (Up/Down) [dB]: 13.0 / 27.0
SN Margin (Up/Down) [dB]: 23.0 / 30.5
Vendor ID (Local/Remote): TMMB / TSTC
Loss of Framing (Local/Remote): 0 / 0
Loss of Signal (Local/Remote): 17 / 0
Loss of Power (Local/Remote): 0 / 0
Loss of Link (Remote): 0
Error Seconds (Local/Remote): 40 / 0
FEC Errors (Up/Down): 0 / 0
CRC Errors (Up/Down): 0 / 0
HEC Errors (Up/Down): 0 / 0
-
Those figures from the estimator are excellent. Your line is expected to be capable of the highest speed which is available on ADSL Max (8128 kbps), whereas you're actually only getting 576 kbps with an enormous noise margin.
Actually your latest router stats do suggest that you've been put on a fixed speed connection in error. The up/down figures (288/576) are exactly what you would get on a fixed half meg connection, so I suggest that this should be what you put to the call centre.
Good luck! :)
-
so BT Mistakenly put me on 512k even though my line is capable of much more "supposedly" (at last some news i understand) ;D
-
>> so BT Mistakenly put me on 512k even though my line is capable of much more "supposedly"
I dont think its BT (your ISP) that has done this.
I strongly suspect you are on Max (why else would there have been a few recorded FEC errors last night) .... and been rate limited by the DLM if your line has been detected as a "cronic flapper" at some point.
What I do think is interesting is within the past few months or so Ive seen a couple of instances of lines which have been DLM rate limited which generally should in theory be very good lines.
------
broadband1 -
If youre wondering what I'm talking about then having a read through this (http://forum.kitz.co.uk/index.php/topic,797.0.html) thread which shows it all unravelling. On page 2 you will see that the ISP was even stumped at one point, and werent even aware of the fact that it had been capped by BT Wholesales DLM, then partway down that page you will see what caused the incident. Despite the electrical fault being rectified since that time the poster found himself rate limited.
What I would do is contact your ISP and tell them:-
~ Your line stats of Attenuation 27dB and SNR Margin of 30.5dB indicate that your line should be capable of the full 8Mb.
~ It is evident that your line is being rate limited at some point to 576Kbps.
You need to stress to the ISP that you suspect it could be some sort of restriction placed by BTw's Dynamic Line Management system that is stopping you attain sync any higher than 576kbps... and could they please check to see if your account has been incorrectly capped by the BTw system.
-
Ok ill get that one sorted out ill check out BT's new Technical helpdesk number 08007076044
-
Good luck
let us know how it goes
-
Well didnt go well they saying saame old rubbish wait three days for bRas Profile to update. I have been waiting months for that stupid thing to update >:(
-
is there anything i can do to improve my bRas profile as it has never improved and BT are being the same on LAZY b@st@rd5
-
You've been told total nonsense of course. The BRAS profile is never going to increase until the problem with the connection speed is sorted out, and only they can do that because it's being limited by the BT configuration, not by your setup.
-
Would it be possible to SUE bt ;D
-
I expect they can afford better lawyers than you can :(
-
Looks like im back to square 2 would be square 1 but i know the problems. But is 26.0db Attenuation good coz my neighbour seems to get a 6.9MB/s connection off 51db Attenuation so im fairly baffled on this one
-
Well my Uncles brother is a Lawyer and he's never lost a case and he's SUPER with Electricals
-
Does attenuation make a difference
-
Apparently BT have removed the Restriction but im not seeing any changes they say it will take upto 10mins and i've waited 30mins is this normal by BT's SUPPOSEDLY high standards
-
You probably need to restart the router before the change will register, if they really have changed it. Best to wait a bit more before exploding. :)
-
lol i'll reset my HomeHub :)
-
Well yet again BT have let me down :no:
-
only difference is that my Attenuation has gone up to 50 from 26db
-
I have been observing this thread, you may have a voltage being induced onto one leg of your pair. i have seen between 30 to 50 Volts its not high current at all and when the linemen go onto the line they po po it but you need a high impedence tester to discover it such as an osciloscope or an "old school Post Office trained UG man of which very few appear to exist in the field today!!
-
lol i have no idea what u just said :D
-
One of us thinks this could be a line termination card fault in the exchange but without being able to see it for ourselves the last post I made has one the day.
Just think of your pair of wires thats your A & B leg having a voltage and here I mean a DC voltage being induced into one leg of your pair. This may come from another leg of another pair but because the voltage is coming from a high resistance source then it is very difficult to detect using the testers that are in the fild these days. The only way we have been able to detect this is using a high impedance voltmeter or an oscilloscope. I had a massive stand up row with an Openreach so called techy last year who was determined that there was no more than 0.35 volts on the pair and that that was well inside acceptance which it would have been. but he was only using his standard voltmeter and the load that that voltmeter put on the pair "masked" the actual fault. Do that help if not please say.
-
But the thing is my house had all its electricals replaced and a new phone line and Cable box installed due to a Accidental Power surge which EDF admitted to so i don't think it could be Interference from an Electrical Source but if you think it could be that i can call an engineer round. and my phone line isn't a cat5e line it's a basic phone line with an attenuation between 19-27db and an SN Margin between 29.0 and 35.5db :)
-
Are there anymore TIPS from you guys or am i flying solo from here
-
Well, we're doing our best, but we're not miracle workers. The enormous jump in the reported attenuation suggests that some physical change has been made to your line, but as you're still getting the same router stats I think that your connection still has rate limiting applied. I'm sorry, but I can't see any option apart from the BT 'help' line again.
-
But the thing is my house had all its electricals replaced and a new phone line and Cable box installed due to a Accidental Power surge which EDF admitted to
When???
Did you see my lost post where I linked to a thread which showed someone having had similar problems to yourself - that was a result of a power surge after someone spliced an electric cable. Despite the electrical problem being corrected.. then the fixed speed profile remained.
http://forum.kitz.co.uk/index.php/topic,1464.msg50048.html#msg50048
In that post I also said that you needed to stress that " sort of restriction placed by BTw's Dynamic Line Management system that is stopping you attain sync any higher than 576kbps... and could they please check to see if your account has been incorrectly capped by the BTw system.""
Tell them that its not an IP profile problem but a suspected MAXDSL fixed speed profile capped at 576 kbps.
-
>> it's a basic phone line with an attenuation between 19-27db
When was the attenuation 19dB - all the stats provided have shown 26/27dB,
yet you'd also said in another post that they'd dropped - if so that would be an increase???
Which ever way the fact still remains that at 27dB your line should be giving you the full 8Mb sync speeds.
What did BT say to that?
>> neighbour seems to get a 6.9MB/s connection off 51db Attenuation
Are you sure those figures are correct?
If you get 26/27dB then I would not expect your neighbour to get 51dB. Its also unlikely that a 51dB line would sync anywhere near 7Mb.
>> only difference is that my Attenuation has gone up to 50 from 26db
Again some different figures ??? where was the 50dB attenuation? -
Your line stats posted dont show 50dB - they show 26/27dB
-
OK can you go here please - http://www.kitz.co.uk/adsl/adslchecker.php
~ Insert your Phone No and Postcode into the checker.
~ Paste the results in this forum
- Do NOT include your phone no when you paste in the results. The info I want is the
~ BT exchange info including the distances
~ BT line speed Estimation
~ RAG test Results
~ dslmax linecode
THEN repeat the test putting in your neighbours phone no - I want to see the same bits of info.
-
for normal telephoney, (voice/pstn) you usually have 50v on the line. across a dsl output at the exchange you will not see any voltage from the dsl output if the pstn is disconnected, 0.35v would be acceptable as an maximum output with dsl sync only essentualy works via inductance, and therefore is irrelavent in proving any faults on the line from the dsl on it's own. It comes down to the test results as long as a sync is obtained
(thats why one dsl signal sould not interfere with another on the same cable dispite it's close poximity to any other pair, also why some may marvel at the low power of signal produced by the exchange and then the extreame db loss to the end user by so many, any more energy then dsl would fall down with more than a few subscibers on the same cable)
it's due the way dsl works and enables it to work piggybacked on top of your pstn signal.
If you have a line fault then as far as voltage is concerned then it could be an earth or battery contact which is something every openreach enginner should look for straight away, (it a fundemental thing to look for on any line before/after working on). Sounds like Techy stuff you can't get your head around, don't worry not your problem. Only an issue for an Openreach engineer to look into. You can have one of the above faults without affecting your broadband, or some times one of the above to a very minor degree and totaly affects your broadband. Still never your issue, just an issue for an engineer.
With the line test, yes gradually more and more of the options need either an EIN (which is privey to an engineer. or a mobile number (which again is an allocated number to an engineer along with one of two other id numbers) to work. Because in part of the public knowledge of the test number there is another test system. If theres a subject to get any BT engineer moaning & whinging, this is one
-
Like previous posts. there shouldn't be a real difference in line attenuation unless thers's a change with soething on your internal wiring or a fair chunk or the bt cableing from the exchange to you has been updated recently.
On a fixed speed dsl the snr again shouldn;t change by more than 3db's a matter of course unless you have a major noise source near you.
Given the difference with both figures i would suspect to a degree the way your equipment is behaving/testing the line
-
On my line my Line the are what show from the ADSL Checker:
Exchange: Southbank. BT Code: WRSTHBK
Location: Blackfriars Road, SE1 8NZ.
ADSL enabled : March 30, 2000
dsl Max enabled: March 30, 2006
SDSL enabled : Enabled
21CN due : no info
Distance:- Direct: 966 metres
(appx)* By Road: 1.77 km
BT Line Speed Estimation Other Broadband Technology & LLU Providers
Fixed ADSL: 512 kbps (0.5 Mb)
DSL Max : 500 kbps (0.5 Mb
I think it's definitly BT and i have to tell them straight !!
-
Although it does say my line is Unable to support Fixed Speeds is that a bad thing on my line or is that ok
-
On my line my neighbours Line these are what shows from the ADSL Checker:
Exchange: Southbank. BT Code: WRSTHBK
Location: Blackfriars Road, SE1 8NZ.
ADSL enabled : March 30, 2000
dsl Max enabled: March 30, 2006
SDSL enabled : Enabled
21CN due : no info
Distance:- Direct: 966 metres
(appx)* By Road: 1.77 km
BT Line Speed Estimation
Fixed ADSL: 2000 kbps (2.0 Mb)
DSL Max : 7100 kbps (7.1 Mb)
I honestly don't understand how this can be :-\:-\
-
It looks as though the BT database has your line pegged as marginal. 'Unable to support fixed speeds' is what you get with a very long high-attenuation line. However the attenuation figures reported by your router don't agree with this, and I'm afraid (sorry!) that it's back to the help line again.
[Edit] In respect of your PM, your neighbour has normal performance that match the router stats, but your connection speed is apparently being capped as a result of previous instability. From your router stats, you should be getting the same sort of performance as your neighbour.
-
ahhh well thanks for the help everyone :)
-
if this helps my SNR Margin has increased from 30.5 to 36.5 :) from what you have told me and the Kitz tutorials Increasing SNR is good and my Line attenuation has dropped from 26.0 to 23.0 :):)
-
Distance:- Direct: 966 metres
(appx)* By Road: 1.77 km
---
Fixed ADSL: 512 kbps (0.5 Mb)
DSL Max : 500 kbps (0.5 Mb
---
Although it does say my line is Unable to support Fixed Speeds
Thank you - from that I can backward guess what your RAG test result would be too (something like REGEGEC).
* You didnt post that bit - so can you just confirm that this is correct before proceeding with the next bit.
As suspected, at some point your line has obviously been declared by the DLM system as being unable to cope with speeds any higher than 500 - despite you having previously had much higher speeds... and has been MAXDSL rate limited to 500 kbps.
As mentioned previously this tends to occur if your line is whats considered a "cronic flapper" by the DLM system.
I strongly suspect that this may have occurred at the time of the power surge - just like the other example that I linked to earlier.
You now however have proof that BTw need to investigate your line and you need to insist that your case is looked into for the following reasons.
(You can use the following termanology on your support ticket it if helps)
~ Your line syncs at a maximum of 576 because the results of a RAG test shows the line as being marked REGEGEC (*see above) and has been rated limited at the DSLAM.
~ Your line has an attenuation of 26/27dB with an SNR Margin of 29.0 - 35.5db which should be sufficient to give you the full (or near as damn it) 8Mb
~ Your suspected line length is around 2km which also should be more than sufficient to cope with much higher speeds than 500 kbps
~ You previously sync'd at 7Mbps until a power surge which has now been fixed by EDF
~ Neighbouring properties are receiving around 7Mbps
Insist that they get BTw to look into this matter - and if it means they do have to send out an engineer so be it.
Good luck and let us know how it goes.
------------
The only thing that has confused me is where you said both you and your neighbours line had an attenuation of 51dB at one point - then you said yours fluctuated that high too. In view of your distance from the exchange neither you or your neighbour should be seeing an attenuation that high... actually since your neighbours line is marked at 7100 and is acheiving 8Mb speeds this is highly unlikely.
Therefore Im going solely off the figures that you have provided in this thread and the several sets of stats provided herein.
If your line does attenuation does fluctuate that wildly - then you do need to insist that an engineer is called out anyhow.
-
in the day (3am-10pm) my Line Attenuation is Low and SNR is High then in the Evening (After 10pm - about 3am) to find those out i missed a whole day of college
-
Honestly are you psycic you got my RAG Number right :)
adsl 1 linecode : RGEC
dslmax linecode: REGEGEC
sdsl linecode: 1111GGGGZZZZEEEE
-
*correction to post 75 (i think tahts the one)*
In the day (3am-10pm) my Line Attenuation is Low and SNR Margin is High then in the Evening (After 10pm - about 3am) It is the opposite i think you can work out the opposite :D to find those out i missed a whole day of college
-
Here we go Attenuation just jumped from 26db to 50db and can Street Lights affect Attenuation
-
Nothing should really affect your line attenuation. Attenuation is the loss in POWER of the signal between the exchange and your equipment. This is different to the SNR - Signal to Noise Ratio - which is a measure of how much signal is present compared to the amount of electrical interference, or noise.
If your attenuation is fluctuating as much as it is, then there is definitely something VERY wrong with your phone line or your internal wiring. I notice very early on Kitz asked you to try your router plugged into the test socket behind the master socket. If you don't know what this is, there is a diagram on this page -> http://www.kitz.co.uk/adsl/troubleshooting.htm
What this will do is eliminate all your internal wiring, so you can see if the line becomes more stable which would then indicate that one or more of your extensions is probably to blame.
If that doesn't work, try a different router if you possibly can, as the one you've got might even be faulty.
-
Chris thanks mate i have just tried that for 4hours and my attenuation went from the Daytime usual of 26db to 25.5db :P
-
It wouldn't be expected to change the attenuation. The question is whether it improves the stability of the connection, i.e. reduces or eliminates the re-syncs.
-
ok i just called BT they think it might be that i over used my Download Limit and the lady said its not likely as last time i over ran it was in May of 2007
-
I have supposedly used 2.86GB even though my hub stats dont show it :( and my download monitor that shows Even P2P downloads and Microsoft updates only shows 0.9GB so who should i trust BT or my independant checker.
-
By the Way would DMT change anything or would i waste my time and in that llast post apparently the 2.86GB is how much data has passed through my Line eg. Web surfing, emails. i have actually only downloaded 0.9GB :)
-
Your usage includes all data transferred (and may include uploads as well, but I'm not sure if BT include this). This is the same with all ISPs.
I don't think that DMT is going to be any help in your situation.
-
ok thanks for that and I only suggested DMT as i see so many people using it to get higher speed
-
i have just tried that for 4hours and my attenuation went from the Daytime usual of 26db to 25.5db
Did it stay around 25.5 or did it go back up to 50-something again?
Leave it in the test socket if you can for a longer time and see what happens. If it stays stable, then the problem is with your internal wiring. You could plug a phone into the filter too so you weren't without a telephone for all that time, you would just be without the extensions. This is important to know, as BT would charge you an arm and a leg if they came to your house and discovered it was your internal wiring at fault!
ok i just called BT they think it might be that i over used my Download Limit and the lady said its not likely as last time i over ran it was in May of 2007
That's a stupid answer from BT - there's nothing your ISP can do that will affect your attenuation or connection stability - this is purely down to either your phone line, extension wiring, faulty exchange equipment or your router. We're trying to eliminate all of the ones you can control!
I have supposedly used 2.86GB even though my hub stats dont show it and my download monitor that shows Even P2P downloads and Microsoft updates only shows 0.9GB so who should i trust BT or my independant checker.....
.... apparently the 2.86GB is how much data has passed through my Line eg. Web surfing, emails. i have actually only downloaded 0.9GB
All data passing through your connection counts, unfortunately, whether it's downloading files, emails, web pages, etc...
Your hub stats will probably only show total since it was last reset, I don't know how the hub monitors your usage.
By the Way would DMT change anything
DMT is only useful if you have a stable connection to start with. You need to sort this out first before even thinking about using the DMT tool. It can't perform miracles! If you use it to get a higher speed, your line needs to be ULTRA stable. And in this case you wouldn't get a higher speed anyway, because your line is fixed at 512k.
Can I try and explain something which you seem to be confusing?
Very basically, ADSL works in 2 stages:
1. The part between you and the exchange, which is nothing whatsoever to do with which ISP you're with*
2. The part the ISP controls e.g. limiting your speeds if you go over download limits etc.
* Applies to all ISPs who use BT Wholesale i.e. most of them, apart from the LLU ones, which doesn't concern you since you're with BT.
You are having probs with number 1. The ISP CANNOT limit your SYNC speed or control if your connection is totally dropping (resyncing).
We need to try and sort this out for ya - please can you carefully answer the following questions for me? Cheers :)
- How long have you been with BT Internet
- Have you EVER connected faster than 512k?
- Before you were with BT, did you have ADSL before - if so who were you with? And what speed did you get?
Thanks - this may help us identify more what's going on and the course of action to take.
-
I have been with BT since April of 2007
In the beggining i was syncing at the full 8128kbps then it dropped a month later due to 512k Kicking in :(
Umm before BT I was on dial-up from AOL .
-
OK, so from that, it looks like Kitz's assumption was right, you are on a MaxDSL (up to 8Mb) line... but have been limited, NOT BY BT retail i.e. your ISP, but by BT wholesale's automatic system, known as "DLM"
It's probably because you had a severe problem on your phone line and the DLM reduced you to 512k in order to attempt to make your connection more stable.
You should now leave the router in the master test socket for an extended period of time (24 hours or so) and monitor the SNR and attenuation as often as you can.
If you absolutely must have a phone connected too, you can plug ONE phone in to the phone socket on the filter, but double-check that this isn't affecting your SNR/attenuation when you do. The idea is to eliminate as much of your house wiring as possible to prove the problem is with your line or the exchange.
By the way, I asked before but you didn't seem to notice that bit... have you managed to try another router yet?
-
Yeah i have i tried my Neighbours Router and it was the same Stats 26.0db Attenuation rises at night for some reason and 35.5db SNR
-
>> but have been limited, NOT BY BT retail i.e. your ISP, but by BT wholesale's automatic system, known as "DLM"
Without a doubt - see the RAG test result.
Its a rate limited MAX account - but shouldnt be because of the line length.
BT (the ISP) seem to be ignoring this :/
broadband1
Have you told your ISP all those facts that I point bulleted out to you.
They need to be told.
-
Cheers for that... so the next thing is to leave the router plugged into the test socket as described in the previous post, then let us know what it does :)
Kitz... probably best to do the test socket test for an extended time frame. No point getting the line reset if it's still got problems, really. He'll just be back to square one then :(
-
yes Kitz i have pointed out those facts you bullet pointed and all the have to say is are you sure the broadband cable is in. (which is fairly retarded as a question as im using the Broadband phone)
-
You're using the broadband phone... actually just a thought.. is your normal landline ok?
-
my landline is fine i just use my broadband phone because its free and doesnt raise my Attenuation :P
-
The usual has happened my Line Attenuation has risen and SNR Fallen
-
The difference in attenuation your getting is very odd, one of the following could be a cause.
Corroded RF2 filter.
this is something fitted bfore your master socket. Intended to reduce any pick up of backround radio on normal voice. (overhearing radio 5live during a conversation on the phone)
If you have an rf2 then you shouldn;t get any dsl sync at all, unless your very close to the exchange or the rf2 is corroded & letting some dsl slip through. If you have an rf2 then it's a case of caontacting your isp to get a engineer out to replace it with an rf3 which was designed after dsl was invented and lets the dsl go through unimpeded.
How to find out if you have one, this will be a small white box about the size of a matchbox before the master socket maked bt. 19 times out of 20 such a box is purely a connection box. If you take off the lid (carefully this is a bt owned item, disturb anything then it is a chargable visit to fix). Unless a cable is obscuring it then inside you'll possibly see rf2 printed. and an rf2 has 2 small black cylenders about 4-5mm dia 6-8mm high. (an rf3 would have an 8mm square block with a visible copper coil within).
Ring looped internal wiring.
Rather than your internal wiring from the master socket just going off to your extention sockets. this cable carrys on retuning back to the master socket. so your dsl signal splits off & meets itself comming back the other way causeing "Reflections" so causing alsorts of issues with the dsl signal quality. Can you disconnect a cable from the master socket with all the extention sockets still working. this usually means a weekend with a screwdriver & sore knees.
Is your property fed by an overhead cable, follow the cable from the master socket to the outside of the property. is part all of the remaining cable back to the pole a grey cable which looks like 2 wires bonded together (don't mess about with this cable, mainly in case you've got hold of a mains voltage cable instead of your telephony)
-
i'm not sure if this can be but there is no boxes all there is really are just multi-coulored wires and a test socket and the wires lead off into the wall :(
I think my line has stablized as my Attenuation was stable all through the night.
And my phonel= line is fed through underground but doesnt take the direct route to the exchange.
-
Don't worry about no boxes, it's normal and at least it's eliminated one potental cause. And if your fed underground that eliminates any possible issues with a possible fault in the drop wire.
-
ok i have completed my 24hour observation of my line using the TEST Socket my attenuation has been consistant as shown below:
Link Information
Uptime: 0 days, 0:18:54
Modulation: G.992.1 Annex A
Bandwidth (Up/Down) [kbps/kbps]: 288 / 576
Data Transferred (Sent/Received) [KB/MB]: 518.00 / 1.74
Output Power (Up/Down) [dBm]: 12.0 / 17.0
Line Attenuation (Up/Down) [dB]: 31.5 / 46.0
SN Margin (Up/Down) [dB]: 9.0 / 4.5
Vendor ID (Local/Remote): TMMB / TSTC
Loss of Framing (Local/Remote): 0 / 0
Loss of Signal (Local/Remote): 3 / 0
Loss of Power (Local/Remote): 0 / 0
Loss of Link (Remote): 0
Error Seconds (Local/Remote): 39 / 0
FEC Errors (Up/Down): 0 / 0
CRC Errors (Up/Down): 0 / 3
HEC Errors (Up/Down): 0 / 0
I have moved my DSL back to the normal phone line not the TEST Socket and my Attenuation automatically dropped down to 26.0db
-
I called BT an they say no restriction as usual classic BT not to take the blame isn't it
-
Its not the ISP thats limiting your connection speed to 576... its the MAXdsl system... and if your ISP had a clue and actually understood the facts that I told you to outline to them... then they would know where to look to lift the restriction.
All you can do is keep repeating those facts to them outlined above.. and hope that at some point it actually gets through to someone who has half an idea of how adsl works.
-
The Final Battle of Me "Broadband1" ( V ) Them "BT" :
At last they say something is being done. they have removed the restriction and my line is syncing at 632kbps (getting better).
Before I leave i would like to say thankyou to Ezzer, Kitz, and Roseway for their fantastically detailed help :) may technology bless you in the future :P
-
>> they have removed the restriction and my line is syncing at 632kbps (getting better)
Thats not that much better - can you post your full line stats again
and are you still connected at the master socket?
Are you sure its showing 632 because thats not a valid sync speed?
- --- Unless thats 632 KB/Sec which is 5056 kbps - which is a valid sync speed and a fraction away from 5Mbps.
-
well my line has dropped to 576 Down and 288 up.
Link Information
Uptime: 0 days, 3:36:50
Modulation: G.992.1 Annex A
Bandwidth (Up/Down) [kbps/kbps]: 224 / 576
Data Transferred (Sent/Received) [KB/MB]: 958.00 / 5.02
Output Power (Up/Down) [dBm]: 12.0 / 15.5
Line Attenuation (Up/Down) [dB]: 10.0 / 19.0
SN Margin (Up/Down) [dB]: 26.0 / 35.5
Vendor ID (Local/Remote): TMMB / TSTC
Loss of Framing (Local/Remote): 0 / 0
Loss of Signal (Local/Remote): 100 / 0
Loss of Power (Local/Remote): 0 / 0
Loss of Link (Remote): 0
Error Seconds (Local/Remote): 621 / 0
FEC Errors (Up/Down): 0 / 0
CRC Errors (Up/Down): 0 / 104
HEC Errors (Up/Down): 0 / 37
Well basically im about to give up with BT maybe with broadband all together and get Dial-up or ISDN for that matter. :wall:
Well im off for a :drink:
-
well my line has dropped to 576 Down and 288 up.
Are those the speeds for a non-Max 512 connection?
-
nope Upto 8mbps ADSL not SDSL
-
Broadband1
Just been reading through this thread, I'm gonna say a couple of things that may help you get somewhere with BT, and help you understand the situation a bit better.
- Your ISP i.e BT Internet, have placed no restriction on your line. This has happened automatically because your line had too many faults. So the helpdesk are correct when they say they have placed no restriction on you. The only restriction BT Internet could place on you is to limit the speed you download stuff at. This is TOTALLY unrelated to your sync speed, which is the speed at which you connect to the DSLAM in the phone exchange.
- BT Wholesale are the company that are responsible for implementing the MaxDSL network. Your fault is with your PHYSICAL line rather than something an ISP can control.
- You've tried the test socket and it's no better - I don't quite understand why your uptime was just 18 minutes in your screenshot when you'd supposedly tried it for 24 hours though. The SNR was terrible, so obviously things aren't right at all.
- Therefore, you need to call BT's THD and get them to book an engineer to come round and have a look. I really think we've exhausted all suggestions to test your own equipment etc - it obviously needs someone to fix whatever the physical fault is on your line. The other stuff had to be eliminated first otherwise if an engineer finds it's something wrong with your equipment or internal wiring, you will be charged quite a lot for wasting his time. - just as a warning to you.
So say to BT something like "I've rung up many many times before, I am confident that there is a problem with my line and please would you get an engineer to visit my property as I have tried everything including a different router and in the master socket." When you get warned that the engineer might cost you money if he finds nothing wrong, say yes that's fine I accept that.
Let us know how you get on :)
-
Hi i see my neighbour has been taking up this issue with you guys you may notice my IP is the same as his well probably because BT have messed up my connection. Nearly everyone on my street has been dropped to 500k maybe its just bad luck i've seen everyones internet all our Line Attenuations are between 19db at the front of the street to 27 right down the back. From what i've seen in this thread those are pretty good so maybe BT is at fault just for the record im on BT as well.
-
Hiya J.Man, welcome aboard.
A line attenuation of below 30dB is generally considered to be quite a short line. Therefore you should be getting a steady, good, 8Mb sync.
I am completely baffled by what's going on with this, can I ask you if your attenuation varies at all? Or does it remain constant?
This problem isn't going to go away without a BT engineer visiting to see what's going wrong somewhere. If your sync speed has dropped to 500k, you need to contact BT and get them to send an engineer to you too
Please note, sync speed is the connection speed reported by your modem/router, and is, as far as this fault is concerned, ENTIRELY unrelated to your IP profile.
>> you may notice my IP is the same as his
Hmm, that wouldn't happen, at all, unless you were both physically on the same Internet connection. Stuff like IP addresses messing up would be affecting either a very large number of BT Internet users, or none at all.
Like I said, the issue appears to be with the lines themselves, perhaps a bad underground/overground cable somewhere that's common to your street - maybe one feeding a cab or something.
So J.Man, everyone who's line sync has dropped to 500k in your street needs to contact their ISPs to get it sorted. Before you do, just make sure that you have followed some basic troubleshooting - mainly try the connection in the test socket, behind the master faceplate, and see if you still sync at 512k, and if your attenuation still fluctuates (if applicable).
This is to avoid a red face and being out of pocket if an engineer turns up and says it's a problem with your equipment, which I doubt, judging by what I've read in this thread.
But as I said, there's not a lot more we can help with, it needs an engineer to sort it. If it really is as bad as Broadband1 has been telling us (and I have no reason to doubt that), then an engineer should come round, and easily spot the problem.
So when you ring BT you say your attenuation is *blah* your SNR is *blah* and your downstream/upstream sync speeds are *blah*. You should probably mention that a lot of your neighbours, some who are also with BT, are having the exact same problem, and specifically request an engineer comes to look at it.
Good luck :)
-
Well i requested an Engineer but BT India keep pointing me towards the FUP number even though me and "Broadband1" have never breached the 5Gb allowance as we kinda have an agreement. and both are Line attenuation vary i know this as a consistantly check my line stats like every 3-4 hours and as "Broadband1" said previously we both used to recieve about 6-7mbps on rainy days.
-
Hiya, you need to re-request an engineer, but firmer this time. If you're within the fair usage limits then don't accept it when they tell you about the FUP, as this is nothing to do with sync speed, as I keep saying.
If you're firm and polite enough, and tell the helpdesk that you've done the tests like I have said a few times in this thread, they will send an engineer no problems.
-
Just one last question on Tuesday I called BT about my line after 30mins the guy said that after the call I should wait 3-4 days for my line to stabilise soo latest is Saturday but this is day 3 but only difference I see is more errors and higher Connection times :( is that a good or bad sign
-
>> I should wait 3-4 days for my line to stabilise
Im sure youve been there - done that before.
Please note that as been mentioned before several times... the speed that you sync at and the throughput speed at totally different.
-
This topic has kinda ended up going round in circles and the same questions keep being asked and answered. For this reason, and also due to its length, its usefulness has dwindled, so I'm locking it.
Broadband1 and JMan, if you have any new queries / anything to report, please feel free to start a new topic :)