Kitz Forum
Broadband Related => Telephony Wiring + Equipment => Topic started by: NewtronStar on September 17, 2014, 11:43:51 PM
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This cable is three meters long from BT80 RF3 (used to be master socket) to new NTE5 master socket (used to be the extension socket) the cable has 2 pairs it's say 1985 telephoney internal cable does not look like twisted cable when I strip away the white rubber insulation to expose the four wires, each core of the wire is think unlike CAT5 which is thin.
It was just one of those DIY jobs put inplace before we had BroadBand, the white cable is 4-5mm thick the OR engineer was happy with it during the FTTC install, As I only need a single pair could anyone suggest a suitable cable to replace this old one.
Topic title amended by admin.. only because I was being pedantic
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Just type the magic incantation (CW1308 cable) in the eBay search box and see what is produced . . . An example (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/5M-WHITE-TELEPHONE-CABLE-2-PAIR-4-Core-BT-Spec-CW1308-/260419633802?pt=UK_Phones_PhoneLeads_RL&hash=item3ca238428a).
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Just type the magic incantation (CW1308 cable) in the eBay search box and see what is produced . . . An example (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/5M-WHITE-TELEPHONE-CABLE-2-PAIR-4-Core-BT-Spec-CW1308-/260419633802?pt=UK_Phones_PhoneLeads_RL&hash=item3ca238428a).
That'll do nicely b*cat
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Try and make sure it's not CCA (copper clad aluminium) - look for solid coper core CW1308. The very newest stuff uses the old solid colour codes, strangely, rather than the colour/white striped pairs.
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The very newest stuff uses the old solid colour codes, strangely, rather than the colour/white striped pairs.
Thanks have placed the order so I will look to see if the insulation colour are solid or striped
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I am going to replace the old thin Data extension cable 2 pairs this weekend with 10 meters of CW1308A 2 pairs twisted as the openreach engineer just used the original 10 year old cable.
When reading the BT Web site for Data Extension Kit it says ->
However, this home phone wiring is not designed to carry the kind of speeds BT Infinity can offer, as it does not protect the broadband signal well enough from interference from things like electrical appliances, telephones and microwave ovens.
This is why you may need a Data Extension Kit, which is a special broadband cable used to connect your BT Home Hub to your master phone socket. It provides much improved shielding from interference, helping you get the fastest broadband speed possible for your line.
What is this special broadband cable that BT/OR use ?
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What is this special broadband cable that BT/OR use ?
I'd be willing to bet it's Cat 5 or 5e.
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Simple answer: Nothing!
That quotation is predominately hog-wash, probably written by some contracted advertisement minion. :-X
When Openreach install a data extension for a VDSL2 (FTTC) service, Cat5e specification cable is used.
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Here you are
https://claritybroadband.co.uk/clxcart/BT-Openreach-Line-Engineer-s-xDSL-Extension-Kit.html
I have one, its genuine, and its nice round white solid copper CW1308 cable and not cat5. I believe that CW1308 is best for vdsl extentions as it match the rest of the cable to the cab.
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Here you are
https://claritybroadband.co.uk/clxcart/BT-Openreach-Line-Engineer-s-xDSL-Extension-Kit.html
I have one, its genuine, and its nice round white solid copper CW1308 cable and not cat5. I believe that CW1308 is best for vdsl extentions as it match the rest of the cable to the cab.
From that link (my emboldening)...
Genuine BT Openreach Engineer's ADSL/VDSL extension kit using 10m, 20m or 30m of high quality Category 5e grade twisted-pair cable
:-\
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Here you are
https://claritybroadband.co.uk/clxcart/BT-Openreach-Line-Engineer-s-xDSL-Extension-Kit.html
I have one, its genuine, and its nice round white solid copper CW1308 cable and not cat5. I believe that CW1308 is best for vdsl extentions as it match the rest of the cable to the cab.
if it matches the cable to the cab where is the ali version? :)
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Hmm it does say that :-[ I did not notice --- but from what was sent it has two pairs and the twist you would expect on CW1308. I may be wrong judging it from appreance. Either way it produces RJ11 leads that work very well best for me It came in BT Openreach packing.
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Les, can you confirm it actually says 'CW1308' on the side of the cable, and not 'Cat 5e'?
Bear in mind that whilst Cat 5 commonly has 4 pairs, the actually spec doesn't dictate it has to be 4. If BT have found an economically viable supply of slim 2 pair Cat 5e, they'd be perfectly entitled to use it, and to still call it '5e.
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Simple answer: Nothing!
That quotation is predominately hog-wash, probably written by some contracted advertisement minion. :-X
When Openreach install a data extension for a VDSL2 (FTTC) service, Cat5e specification cable is used.
That's what I thought the special broadband cable is just CW1308 it was the improved shielding from interference that caught my eye, as any woven copper shield around the pairs will have a negative impact on your broadband signal unless both ends of the shield are earthed.
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Worth clarifying perhaps that neither Cat 5 nor 5e are normally shielded or screened.
Screened/shielded versions are available however and I agree that these versions would not be best for this application.
Les's link mentions a cable diameter of 4mm, which I suspect rules out the possibility of screened or shielded. Moreover, I feel sure, Les would have mentioned if it was.
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Worth clarifying perhaps that neither Cat 5 nor 5e are normally shielded or screened.
Screened/shielded versions are available however and I agree that these versions would not be best for this application.
Les's link mentions a cable diameter of 4mm, which I suspect rules out the possibility of screened or shielded. Moreover, I feel sure, Les would have mentioned if it was.
I can say my old entension cable 2 pair cable has a diameter of 2mm and the cable from BT80 to NTE5 has a diameter of 4mm and thats CW1308 2 pair.
http://www.elandcables.com/documents/CW1308%20Cables.pdf (http://www.elandcables.com/documents/CW1308%20Cables.pdf)
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Useful data from a Beatie subsidiary, here...
https://www.btcables.com/our-products/data/
It was recently suggested in another thread that CW1308 is actually Cat 3. I have no reason to doubt that supposition, so let's take it to be the case.
Now, according to that BT cabling data, Cat 3 is specified for data rates of 16Mbps. Fine for ADSL1, even for ADSL2, but you can see why BT might want to discourage its use for VDSL, Cat 5 being the first that is specified for Infinity Data rates.
According to the BT link, Cat 3 and 5 both have the same characteristic impedance, so no major problems there. The main difference, as far as I know, is twist rate - which is probably what BT are referring to when they say
It provides much improved shielding from interference, helping you get the fastest broadband speed possible for your line.
Of course, using Cat 5e for extension wiring doesn't undo the damage of having Cat 3 from the cabinet. But two wrongs do not make a right, so I can see why they'd want to encourage Cat 5/5e for any new wiring. Especially in the end-users premisses where, arguably, most of the interference will be encountered.
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I don't think digital data rates apply to analogue phone signals.
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Post deleted. :-[
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Useful data from a Beatie subsidiary, here...
https://www.btcables.com/our-products/data/
Interesting. :) Thanks for the link 7LM.
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Ah yes, I see CAT3 is rated up to 16MHz which makes it unsuitable for VDSL2 running at 17MHz. CAT5 is rated at 100MHz.
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Ah yes, I see CAT3 is rated up to 16MHz which makes it unsuitable for VDSL2 running at 17MHz. CAT5 is rated at 100MHz.
I believe the association between analogue bandwidth and achievable data rates is a complex equation, predicted by
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shannon–Hartley_theorem
As said, it is complex. Time was (circa early 70s) I could get my head around that stuff, these days I find it tough. :(
But in essence, just because a cable can carry a signal at 16MHz, or at 8MHz, one cannot assume that it will carry the two signals together at the same time.
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In that case i'll send back the CW1308 cable as not fit for purpose on any VDSL2 line and look for CAT5e 2 pair unshielded.
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In that case i'll send back the CW1308 cable as not fit for purpose on any VDSL2 line and look for CAT5e 2 pair unshielded.
You can if you want, but perhaps don't cite this forum as supporting evidence - I don't think anybody intended to give that impression, least of all me.
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In that case i'll send back the CW1308 cable as not fit for purpose on any VDSL2 line and look for CAT5e 2 pair unshielded.
You can if you want, but perhaps don't cite this forum as supporting evidence - I don't think anybody intended to give that impression, least of all me.
No worrys I only intend to do this cabling DIY job once as it will require me to go up into the loft and pull back 20 inches of loft insulation and track the cable down to NTE5 and DATA socket.
So it's better me knowing the right cable for this job than find out later it was the wrong type.
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You'll also struggle to find a supply of two pair Cat 5e, other than that BT extension kit, if it really is Cat 5e...
As you'll see in a different thread, I abandoned plans to extend by about 20metres using Cat 5 as the degradation was more than I could bear. That did employ three different cable sections, linked by RJ11/45 connections, a single contiguous cable may be better but I wouldn't bank on it.
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The "Genuine BT Openreach Engineer's ADSL/VDSL extension kit" cable has no markings on it at all. Its is 5mm outside diameter.
Re the above discussion as far as I know all the cable from the Cabinet to the master socket will be CW1308, if so VDSL does go down it albeit with the usual attenuation.
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The "Genuine BT Openreach Engineer's ADSL/VDSL extension kit" cable has no markings on it at all. Its is 5mm outside diameter.
Like yourself then I would be strongly tempted to think it is CW1308, despite being described as Cat 5e, and regardless of theoretical benefits of Cat 5.
One more think for NS to consider... if you're going to a lot of bother then using fully loaded (4 pair) cat 5 would leave you with the alternative option of pressing it into service as an ethernet at a later date, if that option has any value?
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http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shannon–Hartley_theorem
As the above link appears to be broken here is a complete, intact link (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shannon%E2%80%93Hartley_theorem). :)
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But in essence, just because a cable can carry a signal at 16MHz, or at 8MHz, one cannot assume that it will carry the two signals together at the same time.
AIUI xDSL divides the data stream into many independent tones, 4.3125 kHz wide, so that variation in cable delay between channels simply means there is an extra delay for the slower channels catch up before the data in all tones can be combined into a many bit word. It isn't a wideband single channel signal, which would certainly be ruined by delay variation.
If Ethernet is such a fast single digital channel, then cable which is OK for xDSL can be useless !
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Not to sure now when looking at Cat5e specs it was designed to support Gigabit ethernet transfer speeds of 1000,000 kbps which is a heck of a lot more when your modem HG612 on a 80/20 service only sends and receives 80,000 kbps DS and 20,000 US.
heres a cut & paste
Category 5 vs. 5e
To support Gigabit Ethernet, a higher performance version of cat 5, enhanced cat 5 or cat 5e has been added to the standards. Cat 5e adds new performance requirements to permit higher speed network operation.
The category 5e specification improves upon the category 5 specification by tightening some crosstalk specifications and introducing new crosstalk specifications that were not present in the original category 5 specification. The bandwidth of category 5 and 5e is the same – 100 MHz.
The differences between category 5 and category 5e are in their transmission performance. Category 5e components are most suitable for a high-speed Gigabit Ethernet. While category 5 components may function to some degree in a Gigabit Ethernet, they perform below standard during high-data transfer scenarios.
Surley the CW1308 cable would be able to handle a 40/10 service without any bottlenecking at 17 Mhz
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Just and update replaced old cable from BT80 to NTE5 with CW1308 2 pair this weekend, and on closer inspection the old cable it was 4 pair with stranded cores which were tin or aluminium the hard part was feeding the CW1308 cable though the wooden door frame as the original drilled hole when feeding the cable through seemed to be going elsewhere but with a bit of patience I could see the front end of cable emerging from the door frame.
From there it was easy to cut the cable to correct length and terminate A & B wires from BT80 to NTE5. :)
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. . . the old cable it was 4 pair with stranded cores which were tin or aluminium . . .
It reads as if you had very peculiar type of cable in your circuit.
Just a sudden thought -- Did that length of old cable contain 4 pairs (8 wires) or 2 pairs (4 wires)?
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. . . the old cable it was 4 pair with stranded cores which were tin or aluminium . . .
It reads as if you had very peculiar type of cable in your circuit.
Just a sudden thought -- Did that length of old cable contain 4 pairs (8 wires) or 2 pairs (4 wires)?
8 wires so to me thats 4 pairs * 2 = 8 cores or wires which are stranded not solid cores if that makes sence
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Yes, that makes sense. :)
I suppose that was the only cable the installer had available for use . . .
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Yes, that makes sense. :)
I suppose that was the only cable the installer had available for use . . .
Yes the installer at the time had no knowledge of broadband because at the time of installation there was no such thing as broadband in 1983 its amazing how telecommunication has moved on since the analog days ;D
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That's what I thought the special broadband cable is just CW1308 it was the improved shielding from interference that caught my eye, as any woven copper shield around the pairs will have a negative impact on your broadband signal unless both ends of the shield are earthed.
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One end earthed ! sheided calbes are earthed one end, eathing the other end can defeat some of the shielding, sounds counter intuative. I Didi used to have shielded cable on my Van, ali' foil around the pairs with a tinned uninsulated copper wire around that. To fit just wind the outer wire around some excess foil and ground that end. leaving the other just cut, but again just wind that outer wire 4-5 times around the foil. Lose winds, more of a pig tail/spiral