Kitz Forum
Broadband Related => FTTC and FTTP Issues => Topic started by: sevenlayermuddle on September 16, 2014, 03:48:45 PM
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Until quite recently, all the FTTC availability checkers, said my exchange was 'NC', not in current plans. Then it changed, to sometime 2015, and then to December 2014. There's never been absolute consistency, the (sponsoring) local authority's info has never quite agreed with BT's, though by and large December seemed credible. The BT checker currently says 'coming soon', local authority still says 'completed by December'.
But today, as I drove past the cabinet, I saw an Openreach van and man at work. So I stopped and politely asked if he could make a personal prediction as to FTTC availability dates. He looked bemused, and explained his task - today - was connecting an FTTC line to my very cabinet!
And sure enough, the Zen website now seems willing to accept an FTTC order for my line :clap:
Estimates circa 50/15. Probably credible, I'd estimate it to be about 500 yds or so. I did warn Eric I may yet be catching up with his 'little excitement' thread :)
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As I've always said, patience is indeed a virtue. It will get to the majority of EU's all in good time. :) You'll not look back once you've got it.
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That's terrific news 7LM. But I think I'm going to win the race by a nose. ;D
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I'm still pretty green wrt FTTC, but maybe somebody can resolve a concern that I have...
...According to the Zen website, an Engineer will call and install a new faceplate. Trouble is, my existing NTE5 is partly obscured by a large, heavy, fully loaded cupboard, leaving just about 1.5 inches clearance on the obscured half. Will the engineer likely require me to move that cupboard? It is of 1980s chipboard flat-pack pedigree, so may not survive being moved in a hurry :o
I can (and often have) remove(d) the faceplate as I have a handy little screwdriver bit that's ideal for twiddling out the screws despite limited space, but will that suffice?
FWIW, I think there is an RF3 pcb, mounted and dangling just by its wires, inside the existing NTE. But getting at it may be challenging, if needed. :-\
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Just for information to your good-self and any others looking on, I always take the tack that it is YOUR premises and you do what you feel is right.
As you are most likely aware, some ISP's offer self-install FTTC, where it's basically plug-and-play into the existing dongle micro-filter. So, if you are not fussed (at this time) about having the SSFP installed, then stick with your current set-up ??
The only point of note is that if you get an Openreach engineer, then he/she has to perform a mandatory PQT at the NTE5. The hidden RF3 will unfortunately ensure that this test fails. So, I would inform them of this, before they head off into the sunset chasing a ghost-fault. :)
I have had quite a few EU's who aren't concerned about their DSL services being run over home-run parallel wiring, or they have brushed-steel socket fronts and don't want the SSFP fitting, or various other aesthetic reasons for not having us do the install to its highest standard. I always inform them of likely drops in speed, but when they've gone from low/medium ADSL speeds to medium/high VDSL speeds, they're not bothered at losing 10-20Meg.
As I say, 7LM, it's your house ...... your rules. We and the ISP can only give 'Best practice' advice. :)
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Thanks Black Sheep for the info.
Could I ask if there is there a 3m rule for the nte5?
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Well done SLM it looks like you will beet me as well. :o ;D
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Thanks Black Sheep for the info.
Could I ask if there is there a 3m rule for the nte5?
To cover all points, just in case there is any confusion ................ any poly cable (ie: Dropwire 10, etc) can only be run a maximum of 2mtrs into a premises.
The WLR3 product states ........ 'WLR - 3 metre rule: This rule is a condition of the WLR3 product and stipulates that Openreach will install the NTE within 3m's of entry to the premises. Any cabling required beyond that point is chargeable at TRC rates'.
Now then, I don't carry out brand new installs anymore, that's left to the CAL/OMI lads and lasses. But, I believe the 3mtr rule has now been relaxed ?? This is just going from memory and maybe another OR engineer could comment further to clarify ??
I fear this may be going slightly OT here, as a FTTC conversion would always mean the installation wiring was in-situ. :)
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leaving just about 1.5 inches clearance on the obscured half. Will the engineer likely require me to move that cupboard? It is of 1980s chipboard flat-pack pedigree, so may not survive being moved in a hurry :o
NTE5 with SSFP installed = 2 inches thats without any DSL plugs connected to the SSFP so I would add in another 5 cm for the cable.
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Hey thats fantastic news :clap: :clap2:
As regards to the SSFP, from what you say you may have a problem with space. The VDSL version sticks out quite a lot more than the NTEs - mine sticks out by nearly 2.5 inches and thats before the end of the modem cable that now also sticks out.
This is the problem that I originally had
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-a-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xaf1/v/t1.0-9/1012389_10151565109782734_600133576_n.jpg?oh=6b81c4d0ddda820607dd61c138f33774&oe=5483D45A&__gda__=1418620113_bbaaabb16ffa5f524a4d3d188265d86d)
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Thanks folks.
So, if the space at existing NTE is too cramped, will they move it within the 3 metre rule? If so, that would be fine.
Ideally I'd keep my existing setup at least as an experiment, which is an unfiltered NTE and a filtered faceplate halfway along the chain of extensions at my 'comms cupboard' where the modem is connected, with subsequent extensions on the filtered side, thus killing reflections. It gives identical results on DSL as connecting at the test socket.
But it would be unfair to expect the BT in installer to 'take it on trust' from me that my wiring is all properly thought out, and not sure if Zen allow self-install. And anyway, I wouldn't be able to (legitimately) remove the hidden rf3 myself. :-\
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Thanks folks.
So, if the space at existing NTE is too cramped, will they move it within the 3 metre rule? If so, that would be fine.
They did it for me my master was in the front porch and the door was always smashing the old BT master socket when fully opened, but I made a 3 meter extension socket into the hallway years before ADSL/FTTC and the engineer made this into the New Master Socket NTE5 with SSFP.
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They moved mine too - eventually!
The first guy that came to install was a contractor, who back wired the SSFP to the NTE. Apparently he shouldnt really have done that, but it was the quickest solution for him to get in and out. ::) I had wanted the NTE location moving because it wasnt practical where it was so the back-wiring was his quick fix because he said he wasnt booked do that (despite me specifying that the master socket would need relocating at the time of ordering) :(
A proper BToR engineer later came out and did the job properly
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I'm thinking the best option is to spend best part of a day nudging that cupboard away from the NTE, and hard against a desk on the other side. That should allow nearly four inches clearance measured from plaster surface.
Unfortunately 'a day' is not much exaggeration as it'll need to be emptied first, some shelves removed, then nudged two inches before reassembly and refill. :(
Once the installer has gone, I assume I can legally replace the SSFP with the old original unfiltered faceplate, and try the configuration of my choosing as described above?
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Once the installer has gone, I assume I can legally replace the SSFP with the old original unfiltered faceplate, and try the configuration of my choosing as described above?
Yes of course it's legal but you may find your line stats are lacking, but that makes it much more interesting to compare the difference between the two devices on the Kitz forum ;)
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There is another possible way . . .
As Black Sheep mentioned above, it is your environment and ultimately your decision. So, assuming a proper Openreach technician attends to the installation, just show her/him the current lack of space and ask that she/he leaves a SSFP with you . . . a SSFP that you will fit in your own time. Mention the RF3 PCB inside the NTE5/A casing . . . and don't forget to offer the coffee/tea & chocolate biscuits/bacon sandwich. If a subcontractor attends (Kelly Communications or M J Quinn), just ask for the SSFP & modem and send him off to perform a botched job somewhere else! :-X
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To clarify ........... if you have a 'Managed Install' with the 'Home Wiring Solutions' module, you can have the NTE fitted in your tree-house if you so want. I keep saying, it's your house, you (or your ISP by way of an enticement) will have paid for the wiring module to be available to the engineer should the EU request the NTE be shifted, etc .....
The aspects to the HWS module are :-
NTE5 moved
NTE5 and Extension socket swopped around
Data-extension supplied
HWS not installed
So, when we close our task we have to satisfy one of the criteria above. Obviously, some may try and ride rough-shod over the EU and say it's going where they say its going. Sometimes, the EU will need guidance as to what's best for their set-up. Either way, you have the say on a 'MI' task.
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OK, I think I have plans (a), (b) and (c) in store, depending on whether I manage to move that cupboard, and whether the van says 'Openreach' on the side. Now ordered!
That's terrific news 7LM. But I think I'm going to win the race by a nose. ;D
Am I right you are pitching for 25th? Darn, I could (provisionally) have matched that with a morning appointment same day. But I've a commitment to pick somebody up at airport around midday, so it'll have to be 26th. You win, but only just, and only because I am being so generous to my visitors. :D
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The earliest date I was offered was the 24th, but I'm occupied that day, otherwise I could have beaten you easily. 8)
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The earliest date I was offered was the 24th, but I'm occupied that day, otherwise I could have beaten you easily. 8)
And deservedly so. ;)
I'm still astonished it was even close, at the time you started your thread I was still being led to believe I had not a chance, ever, of getting FTTC. I think I have found out what it feels like to be the unknown outsider horse that comes galloping through the pack just at the finish line for an unexpected photo-finish. :D
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In a real race I'd be the one lumbering in at the end after everyone else has packed up and gone home. ;D
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minor update, I have managed to move that darned cupboard. There is now just under 4" clearance, measured from plaster surface, hopefully that will cover all eventualities. :fingers:
. . . and don't forget to offer the coffee/tea & chocolate biscuits/bacon sandwich.
Meant to add... streak Bacon OK? I always think it's better as it goes nice & crispy?
More depressingly, I transferred from Demon (now owned by Vodafone) to Zen in anticipation of FTTC. I did so because of terrible past experiences with Demon/Vodafone's Indian call centres and - the last straw - they didn't actually offer an FTTC product. The MAC came quickly and the migration went smoothly, and I was assured my account would be terminated. But today I got an invoice for another year's service to September 2015. I'm sure it will all be resolved, but I suspect it will also be stressful. And what a shame Vodafone should want to leave such a bad aftertaste after an already appalling service. :(
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Glad you managed to move the cupboard without major incident. :)
Shame about vodafone, but hopefully it will be a much calmer experience with a touch of Zen :)
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[quote auth :blush:or=kitz link=topic=14438.msg270095#msg270095 date=1411158112]
Shame about vodafone, but hopefully it will be a much calmer experience with a touch of Zen :)
[/quote] :D
Only calls so far have been sales/account related, but they've been great so far, literally a breath of fresh air after Vodafone/Demon.
Calls answered promptly and by people who appear knowledgable. And who speak better English than I do, allowing for my Glaswegian background. :-[
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My friends installation went pretty smoothly, the only minor hiccup was the courier and delivery of the router.
From what I can gather...One of those where they shove a card through the door but don't knock to check if the person is in kind of things... with no contact no to arrange re delivery.
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minor update, I have managed to move that darned cupboard. There is now just under 4" clearance, measured from plaster surface, hopefully that will cover all eventualities. :fingers:
Thats better but it's still a tricky job when you are limited to 4" it just makes it harder to see and terminate the terminals, a krone tool (Kd-1) is 7 inchs long it's going to be a crick in the neck job for that engineer :(
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Thats better but it's still a tricky job when you are limited to 4" it just makes it harder to see and terminate the terminals, a krone tool (Kd-1) is 7 inchs long it's going to be a crick in the neck job for that engineer :(
The faceplate is about 50% obscured, ie one half has 4", the 'visible' half is unrestricted.
There is certainly enough room now to dig out the old rf3, and to add a bulky faceplate. The main challenge may be installing the screws securing the new faceplate, at least the one on the far side. It may thus depend on whether the engineer is willing to leave a faceplate secured by just one screw...
I will try to post some pics, they do say 'worth a thousand words' and all that. :)
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It may thus depend on whether the engineer is willing to leave a faceplate secured by just one screw...
Its not the screws those are the easy part, it's the IDC punch down thats difficult you need a good horizonal hold and see the wire before punching down to terminate, this is I think were the OR engineers fails 3 out of 10 the IDC insertion is not fully completed.
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It may thus depend on whether the engineer is willing to leave a faceplate secured by just one screw...
Its not the screws those are the easy part, it's the IDC punch down thats difficult you need a good horizonal hold and see the wire before punching down to terminate, this is I think were the OR engineers fails 3 out of 10 the IDC insertion is not fully completed.
Oh dear, now you have me worried again. Can't help wondering though, another option... the NTE is in plasterboard on a wooden framed wall, so could the entire NTE5 box maybe be loosened and lifted from the wall, rotated for access to the IDCs, then remounted after connections made?
Unfortunately I seem to have awoken to some discomfort. I've had a dodgy back for years and occasionally something inside seems to go 'twang', grounding me for a couple of days, until it settles down. Probably a consequence, in part, of moving that cupboard. :'(
So I'm leaving it all be for now, resisting the temptation to start experimenting with different access options.
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In tricky, confined areas like yours, 7LM, an option we employ is to extend the in-situ wires by crimping lengths of cab jumper-wire to the existing ones. That way, we can get a good IDC connection.
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Good luck for tomorrow 7LM :fingers:
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Good luck from me too :)
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Thanks for the thoughts. :)
Not sure what to expect, they'll have a play at the cabinet, supply and install a modem, I'll configure my Billion router for pppoe, connect it's WAN port to the modem and, hopefully, that'll be that?
I don't think I'll be able to post detailed stats from above setup (?) but will try to report as much info as I have.
Oh, and it'll be Jaffa cakes and chocolate digestives rather than bacon sandwiches, hope that'll suffice. :-\
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Tension mounts.
It's 8:01, (or was when I started typing), which is early for me, I'm up and dressed and poised over the Billion's GUI, just in case the engineer arrives on the dot....
Wonder how many more coffees I'll get through before the doorbell actually rings...? He has until 13:00... :D
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It's like waiting for a parcel to arrive, isn't it? ;D
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Hardest thing is resisting the temptation to start eating the Jaffa cakes :D
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afaik - but it could depend on contractor - they will ring you to advise they are at the cab and your broadband will be going down.
It should only take them 5 mins to change the wires at the PCP and then he'll head to your home. :)
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The chap I saw working last week, which inspired this thread, was definitely Openreach. Here's hoping, then... :fingers:
But still waiting. And carrying the house phone around the house with me now, per Kitz's advice. :graduate:
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'Oh, and it'll be Jaffa cakes and chocolate digestives rather than bacon sandwiches, hope that'll suffice'
Hmm ? Borederline is that, 7LM ?? ;) ;D
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'Oh, and it'll be Jaffa cakes and chocolate digestives rather than bacon sandwiches, hope that'll suffice'
Hmm ? Borederline is that, 7LM ?? ;) ;D
Even more borderline if they've all been eaten. I have visitors from across the Atlantic at the moment, still in bed sleeping off the jet lag. But once they surface I may have a struggle on my hands to preserve supplies... :-[
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Tough decision ................ lifetime friends, or a VDSL connection ??????
I think we know where this is going, and it is only seven and a half hours back to the USA's eastern seaboard. ;D
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. . . and it is only seven and a half hours back to the USA's eastern seaboard. ;D
Eh? ??? It's only five hours difference between The Cattery, BSE and my friend in NY, NY & also a colleague in Madison, NJ, USofA.
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All working well. :drink:
A pleasant Mr Kelly installed an ECI modem and, with minimum of fuss, convinced me the DSL lamp was on, and the phones still worked too.
Frustratingly, I failed to manually amend the 7800DXL configuration to use pppoe and WAN port. But having admitted defeat, swallowed my pride, and let the 'quick start' wizard do it for me, all went well. :)
I have of course no access to stats, but speedtest.net indicates download of circa 44 Mbps, upload 10Mbps, which ain't bad for 550metres from cabinet. As mentioned earlier I am entertaining guests for the next few days, so will just leave all to one side now. The options for getting stats will be explored later next week.
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I have of course no access to stats, but speedtest.net indicates download of circa 44 Mbps, upload 10Mbps, which ain't bad for 550metres from cabinet.
Yes, that looks a reasonable throughput for the distance involved. :thumbs:
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Well done :).
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All aboard the FTTC train ...... nice result. :)
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7Layer muddel your a lucky person so enjoy!
Still waiting here in Wales.
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:clap: :clap: :clap:
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Excellent news 7LM. :)
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With apologies (to those still waiting), I'm really enjoying it so far.
I tried watching BBC iPlayer and, for the first time, it is actually watchable, no stuttering, no freezing. And in HD, of course.
I have also worked out that I can amend my overnight backup script to upload at least some stuff to cloud (details to be decided) thus reducing dependency on optical discs stored in the garage. With all the photos I care about, plus all my source code, plus letters and other documents and all email since the dawn of home computing, it comes to a bit under 20GBytes. I reckon that'll take a bit over four hours. That is a lot, but will be complete by breakfast time. Whereas before, it would be about 4 days or more. :)
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heh... there really is no going back now :)