Kitz Forum

Broadband Related => Broadband Hardware => Topic started by: kitz on September 15, 2014, 01:06:47 AM

Title: Combined VDSL2 Modem Routers
Post by: kitz on September 15, 2014, 01:06:47 AM
There is a shortage of choice for combined VDSL2 Modem Routers available in the UK,  so I decided to list those that are currently available for purchase in the UK.

------------
This thread is purely for information on combined VDSL modem routers. 
Please dont use it to ask which router to buy - start a new thread :)

NOTE:  To qualify for the list it must be available for purchase in the UK and it must contain a VDSL modem as specified by the manufacturer.   I'm well  aware that there are some modem/routers which can be hacked with custom firmwares. Im also aware that there are ISP specific routers which may work and can be purchased from say ebay to work with another ISP.     The HomeHub 5 will only work with BT and Plusnet.  The TT HG635 can also be made to work with other ISPs - see npr's guide (http://npr.me.uk/hg635.html).  However that is not the intention of this thread, if you want to discuss hacking other routers please start a separate thread.
Title: Re: Combined VDSL2 Modem Routers
Post by: ejs on September 15, 2014, 07:11:42 PM
I don't think the ASUS DSL-N66U and DSL-AC68U are Lantiq chipset based. I think they're both MediaTek (TrendChip) based.
Title: Re: Combined VDSL2 Modem Routers
Post by: kitz on September 15, 2014, 08:25:21 PM
@ Time Bandit -  Thanks info added :)

@ ejs - Thanks got my info via a google last night - now corrected  :-[
Title: Re: Combined VDSL2 Modem Routers
Post by: adslmax on September 16, 2014, 08:39:32 PM
Nice one Kitz. I like this comparison VDSL standalone.
Title: Re: Combined VDSL2 Modem Routers
Post by: premo on September 30, 2014, 07:26:25 PM
Hi Kitz

That's great, I've been searching high and low for any info on combined vdsl modem routers but even the manufactures websites are a bit short on info and also very contradictory so this is just what I was looking for, are there any Netgear vdsl modem/routers ?
Title: Re: Combined VDSL2 Modem Routers
Post by: kitz on September 30, 2014, 08:01:41 PM
I believe there is a Netgear combined vdsl modem/router but last time I checked it wasnt available in the UK and only worked in Germany where they use a different annex to the UK.   I'll try do some digging to see if there is any more up to date info.

If you look on the Netgear site..  they all seem to be adsl2+ and no mention of vdsl :/

http://www.netgear.co.uk/home/products/networking/dsl-modems-routers/

------
ETA

Ive had a look around and cant seem to see anything.   Theres lots of Netgears claiming to be VDSL routers..  but when you look closely at the specs they either just contain a normal adsl modem and/or you still need to use one of the Openreach modems with them.
If anyone does know of one.. please let me know so I can update this thread.
Title: Re: Combined VDSL2 Modem Routers
Post by: adslmax on October 02, 2014, 02:26:32 PM
What about BT Home Hub 5 and what chipset do they come with? As I know that BT Home Hub 5 are not very good. I seen peoples reporting it kept rebooting firmware itself in the background and the VDSL2 stats is rather poor. Also u cannot use Thinkbroadband BMQ too.
Title: Re: Combined VDSL2 Modem Routers
Post by: Chrysalis on October 02, 2014, 02:37:37 PM
hh5 has same chipset as ECI dslams. So I think lantiq.
Title: Re: Combined VDSL2 Modem Routers
Post by: sevenlayermuddle on October 02, 2014, 04:14:24 PM
Re Billion 7800NXL...  I didn't think any of the '7800 family had VDSL connectivity other than via EWAN port and separate modem? 
Title: Re: Combined VDSL2 Modem Routers
Post by: HighBeta on October 02, 2014, 04:34:55 PM
Sagem HomeHub5 [A]  is Lantiq vrx268 1.2.1

Arcadyan Technology Homehub5 B is Broadcom BCM63268
Title: Re: Combined VDSL2 Modem Routers
Post by: adslmax on October 02, 2014, 05:00:04 PM
Sagem HomeHub5 [A]  is Lantiq vrx268 1.2.1

Arcadyan Technology Homehub5 B is Broadcom BCM63268

Interesting in this bit.
Title: Re: Combined VDSL2 Modem Routers
Post by: HighBeta on October 02, 2014, 05:02:52 PM
Arcadyan Technology EE Brightbox2 Broadcom BCM63168
Title: Re: Combined VDSL2 Modem Routers
Post by: Roxy on October 17, 2014, 10:03:17 PM
Great thread.
Title: Re: Combined VDSL2 Modem Routers
Post by: simoncraddock on November 02, 2014, 07:52:06 AM
The Billion 7800s only have a 'fibre ready' wan port for connecting to a modem according to the user manual.
Title: Re: Combined VDSL2 Modem Routers
Post by: roseway on November 02, 2014, 08:06:58 AM
The Billion 7800s only have a 'fibre ready' wan port for connecting to a modem according to the user manual.

That's right. On VDSL2 systems the 7800s can be used as routers only, with a separate modem.
Title: Re: Combined VDSL2 Modem Routers
Post by: kitz on November 03, 2014, 02:28:14 AM
Quote
On VDSL2 systems the 7800s can be used as routers only, with a separate modem.

Thanks - Removed from list
Title: Re: Combined VDSL2 Modem Routers
Post by: Chrysalis on November 06, 2014, 09:11:06 PM
fritzbox 3370 is same chipset as the ECI dslams.
Title: Re: Combined VDSL2 Modem Routers
Post by: kitz on November 07, 2014, 01:58:00 AM
Ive added to the main post.   Is this the one that you had.. are they any good?
Title: Re: Combined VDSL2 Modem Routers
Post by: Chrysalis on November 07, 2014, 08:01:08 AM
yes I own one.

It syncs lower than the hg612, and if interleaving is enabled the FEC overheads appear to get applied twice, so when interleaved it syncs way lower than the hg612.

On the other hand its a device using the same chipset as the ECI modem, that has a GUI and on my line the error count is noticebly lower than the hg612.

As a router tho I think its maybe ok but not great, it doesnt have various advanced features, cannot be used as a bridge and the price point is/was also high for the spec.  Plus I think it looks ugly :)
Title: Re: Combined VDSL2 Modem Routers
Post by: kitz on November 07, 2014, 12:36:06 PM
Quote
its a device using the same chipset as the ECI modem. It syncs lower than the hg612

Yes thats what Ive noticed about the TPLink TD-W9980 which also has a Lantiq VRX-268 chipset. 
It syncs a fair bit below any of the BCM 6368 routers - you can see on the TD-W9980 review (http://www.kitz.co.uk/routers/tplink_TD-W9980_review.htm) it has about 3Mb less on my line when compared to the HG612. Despite me being on an ECI cab.

It appears to be pretty common that the VRX-268 modem/routers (including the HH5) sync lower but are stable.

Quote
on my line the error count is noticebly lower than the hg612

I would expect that as compensation for the lower sync speed. 
Title: Re: Combined VDSL2 Modem Routers
Post by: Al1264 on November 11, 2014, 02:19:10 PM
My research suggests the FRITZ!Box 7490 International uses a Lantiq (VRX288?) chipset rather than Ikanos (as on the 7390):
http://wiki.openwrt.org/toh/avm/fritzbox.7490
http://www.teltarif.de/avm-fritzbox-7490-aufgeschraubt-innenleben/news/55666.html?page=10
Title: Re: Combined VDSL2 Modem Routers
Post by: kitz on November 11, 2014, 05:34:57 PM
That would indeed imply that the 7490 uses the Lantiq.   Never having had a Fritzbox, Im reliant on info coming from others.. so thank you for that.
Title: Re: Combined VDSL2 Modem Routers
Post by: roseway on November 11, 2014, 06:41:13 PM
I've been informed that the ActionTec GT784WN ADSL/VDSL2 modem/router is Broadcom based, and DSLstats works with it. It doesn't seem to be available in the UK though.

Correction: this is apparently not a VDSL2 device.
Title: Re: Combined VDSL2 Modem Routers
Post by: kitz on November 11, 2014, 07:21:23 PM
I've been informed that the ActionTec GT784WN ADSL/VDSL2 modem/router is Broadcom based, and DSLstats works with it. It doesn't seem to be available in the UK though.

Thanks Eric, if it does become available I shall certainly add it to the main list :)
Title: Re: Combined VDSL2 Modem Routers
Post by: simoncraddock on November 12, 2014, 12:46:24 PM
I've been informed that the ActionTec GT784WN ADSL/VDSL2 modem/router is Broadcom based, and DSLstats works with it. It doesn't seem to be available in the UK though.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Actiontec-Wireless-N-Portable-Consumer-Electronic/dp/B00LK07NNG
Title: Re: Combined VDSL2 Modem Routers
Post by: burakkucat on November 12, 2014, 03:01:13 PM
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Actiontec-Wireless-N-Portable-Consumer-Electronic/dp/B00LK07NNG

 :hmm:  Hmm . . . I don't see any mention of VDSL2, only ADSL2/2+.

However there are approximately two to three listings per week on eBay for Actiontec CenturyLink C1000A Modem/Routers, if anyone is prepared to obtain one for testing -- search link (http://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_nkw=Actiontec+C1000A&_sacat=0&_trksid=m194&ssPageName=STRK:MEFSRCHX:SRCH)

Title: Re: Combined VDSL2 Modem Routers
Post by: roseway on November 12, 2014, 04:49:44 PM
I think you're right. My informant described it as a VADSL2 modem/router, and I assumed (wrongly it seems) that he meant ADSL + VDSL2. :-[
Title: Re: Combined VDSL2 Modem Routers
Post by: burakkucat on November 12, 2014, 05:45:32 PM
A little further thought on my part . . .

I seem to recall Asbokid mentioning them to me as potential devices to test -- hence the reason why I have an eBay watch "set-up". Now there must be a reason for the Maestro to consider testing one -- either because they are VDSL2 capable or have a Broadcom chipset.

Actiontec CenturyLink C1000A (http://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_nkw=Actiontec+C1000A&_sacat=0&_trksid=m194&ssPageName=STRK:MEFSRCHX:SRCH)
Title: Re: Combined VDSL2 Modem Routers
Post by: roseway on November 12, 2014, 06:39:52 PM
The C1000A definitely seems to be a VDSL2 modem/router:

http://www.actiontec.com/264.html
Title: Re: Combined VDSL2 Modem Routers
Post by: kitz on November 12, 2014, 07:24:09 PM
So it does :)  I dont seem to be able to find a UK retailer / retailer for new :/

One thing to note if anyone decides to buy a US version or a previously used version, they may find this post useful,
http://www.amazon.com/review/R38UEUBFQZ86D4/ref=cm_cr_pr_viewpnt#R38UEUBFQZ86D4
Title: Re: Combined VDSL2 Modem Routers
Post by: burakkucat on November 12, 2014, 08:40:45 PM
Thank you Eric, thank you Kitz.  :)

Now I wonder if there is someone who would be willing to purchase a second-hand unit from the USA and test it? (There is no point in me doing so, for I am on a ADSL2 service.  ::)  )
Title: Re: Combined VDSL2 Modem Routers
Post by: marjohn56 on November 30, 2014, 04:09:32 PM
Add the Draytek 2860 to the list. The current public firmware is suspect, the beta I am running is good and it's stable.
Title: Re: Combined VDSL2 Modem Routers
Post by: kitz on November 30, 2014, 07:45:26 PM
Done.  Thanks.
Do you happen to know which chipset it uses?
Title: Re: Combined VDSL2 Modem Routers
Post by: phi2008 on November 30, 2014, 11:44:21 PM
I used the Juniper SRX110H-VA over a number of months and found it extremely stable with good syncs(better than the BT Home Hub 5), a dependable, if relatively expensive box. Think the newest model is the SRX110H2-VA.
Title: Re: Combined VDSL2 Modem Routers
Post by: Dray on November 30, 2014, 11:48:57 PM
Coincidentally, I saw someone asking how to set one up but I think it's for ADSL https://community.bt.com/t5/Other-Broadband-Queries/Juniper-Router-on-BT-Broadband-Issues/m-p/1417882/highlight/true#M98621
Title: Re: Combined VDSL2 Modem Routers
Post by: phi2008 on November 30, 2014, 11:58:12 PM
If someone has access to the BT forums they can perhaps help the poster (Patrick_loves_Junos) by pointing him to this working SRX110 config - http://futilefiles.com/blog/?p=478  :)
Title: Re: Combined VDSL2 Modem Routers
Post by: kitz on December 01, 2014, 01:08:52 AM
Ouch at £650  & £1018!  I think that may fall a bit on the expensive side for home consumers :(
Title: Re: Combined VDSL2 Modem Routers
Post by: phi2008 on December 01, 2014, 01:35:48 AM
You can buy them on eBay, brand new, for about £240 including all import and delivery costs (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/NEW-Juniper-8-Port-SRX110-Security-Services-Gateway-Appliance-P-N-SRX110H2-VA-/201121917573?pt=US_Firewall_VPN_Devices&hash=item2ed3ccea85) - and  a lot cheaper if they are used. But I take your point, if you don't shop around you are looking at enterprise rather than residential prices.
Title: Re: Combined VDSL2 Modem Routers
Post by: marjohn56 on December 02, 2014, 11:03:21 PM
Done.  Thanks.
Do you happen to know which chipset it uses?

Took a while to find, but according to the Portuguese Draytek website its Lantiq.
Title: Re: Combined VDSL2 Modem Routers
Post by: kitz on December 03, 2014, 12:03:20 AM
Quote
according to the Portuguese Draytek website its Lantiq.

Thank you
Title: Re: Combined VDSL2 Modem Routers
Post by: roseway on January 07, 2015, 04:45:39 PM
There's another Zyxel model which has been discussed a bit here, VMG1312-B10A. It apparently has a BCM6368 chipset, so may be comparable with the HG612 in perfomance. It only has 10/100 ethernet ports.
Title: Re: Combined VDSL2 Modem Routers
Post by: Oldjim on January 30, 2015, 05:24:52 PM
seems to be another one http://community.plus.net/forum/index.php/topic,136349.0.html
Title: Re: Combined VDSL2 Modem Routers
Post by: kitz on January 30, 2015, 07:33:08 PM
Thank you both.

Added to the list.
Title: Re: Combined VDSL2 Modem Routers
Post by: broadstairs on January 31, 2015, 08:45:04 AM
I was interested in the DGND3700 V2 mentioned but so far have been unable to confirm from the Netgear site that this does support VDSL, all release notes for f/w updates do not mention VDSL at all. Apart from the thread mentioned can anyone please confirm officially that this does support VDSL without the separate modem?

Stuart
Title: Re: Combined VDSL2 Modem Routers
Post by: kitz on January 31, 2015, 11:09:34 AM
The person who posted over there (goldenfibre) is adslmax (http://forum.kitz.co.uk/index.php?action=profile;u=6112) on this forum so Im surprised he didnt mention it himself over here too.
Title: Re: Combined VDSL2 Modem Routers
Post by: broadstairs on February 01, 2015, 10:59:19 AM
The more I research the DGND3700 the more confusing it becomes and so far I have not been able to confirm that it works with VDSL/2 with any official firmware, apparently the V1 can be hacked for VDSL but by using unofficial firmware. The Netgear site says nothing about VDSL/2 support in this router so I suggest (unless anyone knows anything different) until we get official confirmation from Netgear that it is removed from the list.

Stuart
Title: Re: Combined VDSL2 Modem Routers
Post by: roseway on February 01, 2015, 11:36:50 AM
I've added a "To be confirmed" note to the entry.
Title: Re: Combined VDSL2 Modem Routers
Post by: kitz on February 01, 2015, 01:02:05 PM
Ive done a google and the history seems rather curious.  Theres too much myth and unsubstantiated facts around this atm.  I find information, then I find other information that contradicts that.  It would appear that at one time Netgear released one of the DGND3700s (most likely v1) with a vdsl2 modem, but they later withdrew support.

The custom firmware available for the DGND3700v1 is based on the vdsl drivers which were later withdrawn by netgear.  I cant find any reason why Netgear withdrew the vdsl functionality, but because the custom f/w appears to be based on the later withdrawn f/w, then I'm removing v1 from the list. Users can try this at their own risk and the custom f/w can be found at richuds site here (http://www.richud.com/wiki/DGND3700_V1_Transmission_Firmware).settings here (http://community.plus.net/forum/index.php/topic,136375.0.html).

It would appear that one of our members bilbokitz (http://forum.kitz.co.uk/index.php?topic=13435.0) is successfully using a DGND3700 with vdsl, but its unclear which version.

Facts surrounding v2 seem very contradictory, and there may be confusion between this and v1 and its chipset support..  so Im also withdrawing that from the main list until there is official confirmation from netgear or another trusted source. 

-------
ETA
I just noticed that golden fibre has also changed his facts re the v2 - link (http://community.plus.net/forum/index.php/topic,136349.msg1196549.html#msg1196549).   This is way too confusing.  In future I think its best to leave the list purely for those modem/routers which are advertised & sold by the manufacturer as being vdsl compatible.
Title: Re: Combined VDSL2 Modem Routers
Post by: Oldjim on February 03, 2015, 11:51:57 AM
Is there any reason why the HH5 isn't included in the list given that it is readily available on Ebay and on the BT Shop
Title: Re: Combined VDSL2 Modem Routers
Post by: Dray on February 03, 2015, 12:07:07 PM
HH5 doesn't work on every ISP; only BT, PN and possibly TT.
Title: Re: Combined VDSL2 Modem Routers
Post by: broadstairs on February 03, 2015, 01:31:37 PM
From what I've seen on the TT forum HH5 will NOT work with TT, at least not as a full blown router.

Stuart
Title: Re: Combined VDSL2 Modem Routers
Post by: HighBeta on February 03, 2015, 05:00:01 PM
Is there any reason why the HH5 isn't included in the list

There is a mention on Page 1  ;)
Sagem HomeHub5 [A]  is Lantiq vrx268 1.2.1
Arcadyan Technology Homehub5 B is Broadcom BCM63268
Title: Re: Combined VDSL2 Modem Routers
Post by: kitz on February 04, 2015, 10:43:35 AM
Unfortunately as mentioned, the HomeHub5 will definitely not work with any other ISP other than BT or Plusnet.
Title: Re: Combined VDSL2 Modem Routers
Post by: bilbokitz on February 04, 2015, 01:25:37 PM
Ive done a google and the history seems rather curious.  Theres too much myth and unsubstantiated facts around this atm.  I find information, then I find other information that contradicts that.  It would appear that at one time Netgear released one of the DGND3700s (most likely v1) with a vdsl2 modem, but they later withdrew support.

The custom firmware available for the DGND3700v1 is based on the vdsl drivers which were later withdrawn by netgear.  I cant find any reason why Netgear withdrew the vdsl functionality, but because the custom f/w appears to be based on the later withdrawn f/w, then I'm removing v1 from the list. Users can try this at their own risk and the custom f/w can be found at richuds site here (http://www.richud.com/wiki/DGND3700_V1_Transmission_Firmware).settings here (http://community.plus.net/forum/index.php/topic,136375.0.html).

It would appear that one of our members bilbokitz (http://forum.kitz.co.uk/index.php?topic=13435.0) is successfully using a DGND3700 with vdsl, but its unclear which version.



Confirmed, I have a V1 at work with very old firmware doing our VDSL connected directly to the telephone line rj11. I think I even posted the stats on this forum somewhere. Seems to be fairly good for the basics however I seriously doubt it will ever support any of the new technologies eg vectoring.

Title: Re: Combined VDSL2 Modem Routers
Post by: npr on February 04, 2015, 01:41:28 PM
The DGND3700v1 stats posted here appear to show G.IPN active.
http://community.plus.net/forum/index.php/topic,136375.msg1197054.html#msg1197054

Has the talk talk super router (HG635) been considered for the list.
I've been running one for some time on my plusnet VDSL connection.
Connection setup here:
http://npr.me.uk/hg635.html
That page needs updating with some of the bugs which have become evident over time.
Title: Re: Combined VDSL2 Modem Routers
Post by: Tacitus on February 04, 2015, 07:27:16 PM
I notice that for the Vigor 2760N "some users have been disappointed with the performance"

In what respect?  Poor wireless, poor throughput?

A search of this site hasn't found anything, but I'm new to Kitz so might be looking in the wrong place.  :)
Title: Re: Combined VDSL2 Modem Routers
Post by: kitz on February 05, 2015, 10:49:21 PM
@tacitus - reviews on sites such as amazon etc made by purchasers of the router.
Title: Re: Combined VDSL2 Modem Routers
Post by: kitz on February 05, 2015, 11:19:17 PM
The aim of this thread was as specified in the first paragraph "to list those that are currently available for purchase in the UK."

Its not my intention to list any routers which have to be modified.  Once I start doing that then the list gets far too complicated as there are several routers which can be modified by either using custom firmwares or by sticking firmware on that was originally intended for another router (ie the TP-links).  Last w/e with the Netgears was a good example of how much confusion was caused and I ended up having to spend a considerable amount of time trawling through the internet to attempt to get facts.. then in the end go back to the original source and ask for clarification for something which turned out to be very misleading.  I'm afraid atm my time is very limited... and in fact the only reason I was around this w/e was because I was full of the lurgy and therefore banned from visiting ICU.   By all means feel free to start new thread discussing hacking or modding other routers to get them to work with vdsl, but that isnt the aim of this particular thread.     Ive just added a note to the first page which clarifies this.
Thanks for understanding. :)
Title: Re: Combined VDSL2 Modem Routers
Post by: richud on February 07, 2015, 10:58:28 PM
Hi Kitz,

The Netgear DGND3700V1 is FCC certified for VDSL. [The exact same hardware is still sold in Germany for fibre, but renamed DGND3800B.]
Unless anywhere has old stock it probably won't be for sale in the UK any more - some always on eBay.
Please let me know if you want to know anything further about it, lots of FUD about !
Title: Re: Combined VDSL2 Modem Routers
Post by: Oldjim on February 10, 2015, 12:47:47 PM
Apologies if this is in the wrong place but do any of the combined units allow a monitoring program to track the fibre stats (noise margin, speeds, etc.)
Title: Re: Combined VDSL2 Modem Routers
Post by: roseway on February 10, 2015, 01:15:49 PM
Apologies if this is in the wrong place but do any of the combined units allow a monitoring program to track the fibre stats (noise margin, speeds, etc.)

The Billion and Zyxel models are supported by DSLstats, and some of them are supported by HG612_Stats, but I'm not sure of the details.
Title: Re: Combined VDSL2 Modem Routers
Post by: Oldjim on February 10, 2015, 01:26:11 PM
Thanks
The question was because I will - hopefully - be going fibre in the next month or so and I would like to have a decent router - the Billion 8800NL seems a good cheapish router
Title: Re: Combined VDSL2 Modem Routers
Post by: Bald_Eagle1 on February 10, 2015, 08:00:26 PM
The Billion 8800NL is indeed supported by HG612 Modem Stats, very shortly to be updated to accommodate G.INP technology that appears to be being trialled or rolled out in phases.
Title: Re: Combined VDSL2 Modem Routers
Post by: Oldjim on February 10, 2015, 08:21:54 PM
I assume that unlike vectoring the G.INP is modem independent
Title: Re: Combined VDSL2 Modem Routers
Post by: Tacitus on February 13, 2015, 07:25:47 PM
@tacitus - reviews on sites such as amazon etc made by purchasers of the router.

OK thanks Kitz. Looking at those reviews the problems are with the wireless aspect and most look related to earlier versions of the firmware.  Since I use a separate wireless access point which from past experience works better for me, I'm not particularly bothered about that aspect.  Apart from that the 2760 looks worth a punt as I've used Draytek in the past with good results.
Title: Re: Combined VDSL2 Modem Routers
Post by: kitz on February 15, 2015, 01:07:48 PM
I assume that unlike vectoring the G.INP is modem independent

AIUI, Its a software construct in the way the modem handles the data stream.   Therefore both the modem and dslam need to be capable of g.inp.   
Kind of like, its no good if the interleaver in the dslam sends data to a modem whose de-interleaver doesnt understand the algorithm used..  they both need to be able to speak and understand the same language. 
Title: Re: Combined VDSL2 Modem Routers
Post by: michty_me on March 05, 2015, 07:30:38 AM
An interesting topic which seems to be asked many times weekly.

A recent item out now is the the FritzBox 3490 at £130. I read this has the same internals as the 7490 but without the DECT/telephony stuff. It must be an upgrade to the 3390 unit.

There was meant to be a Billion 8900AX unit out 1st quarter of 2015 which had 3x external antenna unlike the 8800 unit. It seems to have gone quiet on that front and Billion said they will not be releasing it for now but release an update in due course.
Title: Re: Combined VDSL2 Modem Routers
Post by: PhilipD on April 01, 2015, 12:09:03 PM
Hi

External antennas on routers remind me of the move years ago to 2G and digital mobile phones that used internal antennas, where because the customer expected an aerial, they added fake ones. :P

Given that virtually every device we have that connects to the router has an internal antenna, it seems odd to worry about the router having internal ones.

Yes if external you can move them about a bit and favour perhaps one direction slightly over the other, but given all the beam forming tricks used now, having more precisely arranged and fixed internal antennas is probably better, hence the proliferation of them, or course it's cheaper as well.

External antennas on routers are little more than a stripped but of of coax wire, whereas internal antennas can be more elaborate and specialised for the job.

Regards

Phil

 

Title: Re: Combined VDSL2 Modem Routers
Post by: azreal on April 10, 2015, 02:31:32 PM
Hello
Looking at Fritz!box currently, and won't the following also work in UK

7360
3390
3490

The reason I am asking is I am thinking about getting the 3390 as my current billion 8200n I feel isn't too great.
Unless someone can advise me of a better combo
Title: Re: Combined VDSL2 Modem Routers
Post by: Al1264 on April 10, 2015, 03:34:54 PM
Useful info (if you 'do foreign' or use google translate) on the 3390 here including confirmation that it uses the same Lantiq XWAY VRX288 chip as the 7490 and a screenshot showing G.INP status so definitely should be OK:
http://www.hwupgrade.it/forum/showthread.php?t=2621831
Title: Re: Combined VDSL2 Modem Routers
Post by: jack21 on April 19, 2015, 09:39:34 AM
I spotted yet another ADSL/VDSL combo yesterday....

http://www.kikatek.com/P458816/ZXHN-H168N-ZTE-ZXHN-H168N-Advanced-VDSL2?source=NL:1386767104

Low price, but don't know what chipset it uses, and can't find any user reviews.
Its also available on Amazon.

Title: Re: Combined VDSL2 Modem Routers
Post by: kitz on April 19, 2015, 11:20:18 AM
I cant find any chipset info or reviews either.  But there is something a little bit strange. I went to the manufacturers site here
(Warning it's in China, its slow & it crashed my browser twice).

http://enterprise.zte.com.cn/en/products/network_lnfrastructure/cpe/broadband/201312/t20131209_414437.html

The ZXHN H168N looks nothing like and more like the ZXHN H298N

http://enterprise.zte.com.cn/en/products/network_lnfrastructure/cpe/broadband/201404/t20140418_422573.html


There are some documents available, but as its now crashed firefox for the 3rd 4th time whilst waiting for stuff to download Im giving up for now  :(
Title: Re: Combined VDSL2 Modem Routers
Post by: les-70 on April 19, 2015, 03:22:01 PM
  The images show seem to vary for H168N but I think the one on the kikatek page is the usual one.  I found a Turkish firmware and that shows that it is Broadcom based and 63168 or 63268 dsl side.  I tried a quick google search to see if there is evidence of telnet access but I only found that other ZTE modems have access so it is a possibility.
Title: Re: Combined VDSL2 Modem Routers
Post by: adslmax on April 23, 2015, 01:50:51 AM
New Netgear D6400 out now support VDSL2 http://www.broadbandbuyer.com/products/21672-netgear-d6400-100uks/

sadly not enough specs information of VDSL2 support?
Title: Re: Combined VDSL2 Modem Routers
Post by: PhilipD on April 23, 2015, 08:41:34 AM
New Netgear D6400 out now support VDSL2 http://www.broadbandbuyer.com/products/21672-netgear-d6400-100uks/

sadly not enough specs information of VDSL2 support?

Hi

It's a Broadcom chipset and software stack so will support G.INP and vectoring.

It's a big old box though, more an advertisement hoarding for Netgear with the illuminated logo.  ;D

Regards

Phil
Title: Re: Combined VDSL2 Modem Routers
Post by: adslmax on April 23, 2015, 11:09:37 AM
What broadcom chipset it will be?
Title: Re: Combined VDSL2 Modem Routers
Post by: BungalowBill on April 28, 2015, 04:25:08 PM
Draytek Vigor 2860 series:

Looks like Draytek have recently (it wasn't there last week) released "G.INP / Vectoring beta firmware" for the above.
They tell me it supports G.INP in both the up- and down-stream ... so long as the MSAN does too of course.

Nothing showing for the 2760 yet.

We've only installed two of these so far, as the official release firmware has been a bit flaky to say the least.
Though our issues have been with DHCP and routing policy failures and not with the VDSL2 modem, which has been very stable, on these two lines anyway.

Both are connected to ECI M41 cabs unfortunately.
Not wishing to poke a hornets nest with a stick; as they are both "working" in commercial premises, I won't be touching them, unless they go t*ts up, until after BTOR have finished faffing around with their M41s.

If anyone tries this beta, I would be interested to know how it goes.

They appear to block direct linky to the downloads page:
http://www.draytek.co.uk/support/downloads

But at least they haven't blocked their own homepage:
http://www.draytek.co.uk/ (http://www.draytek.co.uk/)

Cheers,
Title: Re: Combined VDSL2 Modem Routers
Post by: kitz on April 29, 2015, 12:16:22 AM
Hi Bill and welcome. 

Thanks for that info - I'll put it on the g.inp thread too. :)

I heard at the weekend that there were issues with the 2850 and although there isnt a beta yet, they are working on it.
Title: Re: Combined VDSL2 Modem Routers
Post by: parkdale on June 08, 2015, 06:19:53 PM
Hi

Signed up to John Lewis fibre... was given a Netgear WNR2200, sadly this went to the great scrap heap in the ethernet :(
internal ip routing gave up :o , so was using my trusty Billion 7800n as a stop gap.
I've now got a Fritzbox 3490 and after a bit of teeth nashing, it's all up and running, but no G.INP on my exchange.

Regards
Robin

Title: Re: Combined VDSL2 Modem Routers
Post by: michty_me on July 25, 2015, 06:48:19 PM
Hi Kitz,

You can add the Netgear D7000 to the list as supporting G.INP. Seems to be running well on my line so far.
Title: Re: Combined VDSL2 Modem Routers
Post by: Weaver on July 26, 2015, 09:48:13 AM
The Zyxel VMG1312 is available from the Andrews and Arnold Shop for £60
    http://aa.net.uk/broadband-accessories.html
Title: Re: Combined VDSL2 Modem Routers
Post by: les-70 on July 26, 2015, 11:07:06 AM
Tempting.    I notice by the way that the chipset is 63168 and not 6368 as noted in the leading post of this thread.
Title: Re: Combined VDSL2 Modem Routers
Post by: kitz on July 26, 2015, 04:09:16 PM
Tempting.    I notice by the way that the chipset is 63168 and not 6368 as noted in the leading post of this thread.

Cheers Les, typo on my part  :-[   Now corrected.
I looked at its  specs last year and found it had a BCM63138 (http://forum.kitz.co.uk/index.php/topic,14478.msg270346.html#msg270346)

Is the ZyXEL telnet interface the standard Broadcom one or is it customised?

Its web gui is the same as the VMG8324 and since they both use the same chipset.  Zyxel usually arent in the habit of locking down firmware and tend to leave all the BCM CLI alone * In fact one of the reasons that I like mine is not only do they leave access alone, but build on the CLI and it to bring it to the web-gui too.   

*Unless obviously its requested by an ISP specific build  eg Eirecoms F1000 is a VMG8324 with customised f/w....  yet other ISPs (such as kcom/eclipse) sell it with the standard Zyxel firmware.   I cant imagine AAISP being one of those would would get custom and locked down f/w.
Title: Re: Combined VDSL2 Modem Routers
Post by: andythebrave on August 18, 2015, 07:08:16 PM
guys I would like to see a cpmparsion with the hg633 , hg 635 talk talk supper routers and the and all of the routers in this post , as if go form a talk talk router to a friztbox will I see a speed increase on vhdsl side this is because I am havng major dsl issues with fttc and I nnned to know if its an investment worth doing
Title: Re: Combined VDSL2 Modem Routers
Post by: NewtronStar on August 18, 2015, 09:35:27 PM
For me it's kind of annoying having to use the combined VDSL2 modem and router (BrightBox2 )as just a router it has a BCM63168 chipset but no access to telnet or DSLstats have to use the old HG612 for that, yet the BCM36168 is far better on my line than whats in the HG612.
Title: Re: Combined VDSL2 Modem Routers
Post by: kitz on August 31, 2015, 05:50:13 PM
Added TP-Link Archer VR900 to the list.
Title: Re: Combined VDSL2 Modem Routers
Post by: nivek1612 on October 15, 2015, 10:19:35 AM
Added TP-Link Archer VR900 to the list.

Had to send mine back lots of disconnects on Sky Fibre. my HG612 does months of solid conenctions
Title: Re: Combined VDSL2 Modem Routers
Post by: psychopomp1 on October 17, 2015, 02:20:36 PM
Kitz, you should also add the recently launched Netgear D7800 to the list. No idea which VDSL2 chipset it uses, but i understand this is the first Mu-Mimo VDSL2 router and even if its half as good as my Linkys EA8500 (a standalone Mu-Mimo router) then the D7800 will blow the other routers for speed & range.
Title: Re: Combined VDSL2 Modem Routers
Post by: KIAB on October 19, 2015, 09:33:03 AM
You can also add the new Asus RT-AC88U, has a insane 8 gigabit ports, not available yet, but already supported in Merlin firmware.

http://www.techhive.com/article/2991380/home-networking/asus-gamer-centric-rt-ac88u-packs-more-ethernet-ports-than-any-other-80211ac-router.html
Title: Re: Combined VDSL2 Modem Routers
Post by: michty_me on October 19, 2015, 09:43:48 AM
You can also add the new Asus RT-AC88U, has a insane 8 gigabit ports, not available yet, but already supported in Merlin firmware.

http://www.techhive.com/article/2991380/home-networking/asus-gamer-centric-rt-ac88u-packs-more-ethernet-ports-than-any-other-80211ac-router.html

Afraid not as it is a RT model, router only so no VDSL modem built in. Looks pretty nice though!!
Title: Re: Combined VDSL2 Modem Routers
Post by: KIAB on October 19, 2015, 11:30:30 AM
You can also add the new Asus RT-AC88U, has a insane 8 gigabit ports, not available yet, but already supported in Merlin firmware.

http://www.techhive.com/article/2991380/home-networking/asus-gamer-centric-rt-ac88u-packs-more-ethernet-ports-than-any-other-80211ac-router.html

Afraid not as it is a RT model, router only so no VDSL modem built in. Looks pretty nice though!!

Lost a bit of my post & I didn't spot it.  :-[

It's a shame they didn't squeeze in a dsl modem as well,as it would have been perfect for my needs then.
Title: Re: Combined VDSL2 Modem Routers
Post by: michty_me on October 19, 2015, 12:39:12 PM
It would be better if they opted for a reliable DSL modem for their next device. The past two DSL modem routers from Asus haven't been the best. If they sorted the modem I would take another Asus device.
Title: Re: Combined VDSL2 Modem Routers
Post by: fincastle84 on December 17, 2015, 02:20:53 PM
The Billion Bipac 8800 AXL has been scrapped. It is being replaced by the Bipac 8900-AX 1600 which will be available in January 2016, priced circa £170.00. Unlike its predecssor, it has 3 adjustable antenna, designed to vastly improve its range & signal strength.

BiPAC8900AX-1600 R2

Triple-WAN Wireless 1600Mbps, 3G/4G LTE and
VDSL2/ADSL2+ VPN Firewall Router

The Billion BiPAC 8900AX-1600 R2 is a multi-service VDSL2 router. It features fiber-ready triple-WAN VDSL2 supports backward compatibility to ADSL2+for a longer reach distance, an all-in-one advanced device including concurrent dual-band 802.11ac (5GHz) 1300Mbps and
802.11n (2.4GHz) 300Mbps, Gigabit Ethernet, connections to 3G/4G LTE and NAS (Network
Attached Storage) in one unit. As well as being IPv6-capable, the BiPAC 8900AX-1600 R2
VDSL2 router supports superfast fiber connections via a Gigabit Ethernet WAN port. It also has one USB port, allowing the device to act as a print server as well as a NAS (Network Attached
Storage) device with DLNA (Digital Living Network Alliance) and FTP (File Transfer Protocol)
access. Moreover, the USB port can host a 3G/4G LTE modem connecting to the 3G/4G LTE
network  for  Internet  access.  With  an  array  of  advanced  features,  the  Billion  BiPAC
8900AX-1600 R2 delivers a future-proof solution for VDSL2 connections, superfast FTTC and
ultra-speed FTTH (Fiber-To-The-Home) network deployment and services.

Title: Re: Combined VDSL2 Modem Routers
Post by: michty_me on December 17, 2015, 03:00:05 PM
I've been keeping my eyes open for this device. Although the last specs I heard were slightly different. Hopefully they get it out soon as its been pushed back several times.
Title: Re: Combined VDSL2 Modem Routers
Post by: Smoothie on December 18, 2015, 06:42:02 AM
@ Kitz
Some months ago you posted on the Plusnet forum that "With mine I can terminate my Plusnet session without having to drop sync.   I just click a button in the web gui, then click it again to reconnect & get a new session.   There are several other routers that do this too".

Having struggled with umpteen reboots on a TP-Link VR900 and my line speed plummeting, it's clear that rebooting just the router side would be extremely useful.

Could you by any chance list which modem routers do this ?  Is it all the Billions and ZyXels by any chance ... ?  Any others ?

I'm looking forward to your reply so I can do a little research over Christmas ...  ::)
Title: Re: Combined VDSL2 Modem Routers
Post by: michty_me on December 18, 2015, 10:07:13 AM
The Billion Bipac 8800 AXL has been scrapped. It is being replaced by the Bipac 8900-AX 1600 which will be available in January 2016, priced circa £170.00. Unlike its predecssor, it has 3 adjustable antenna, designed to vastly improve its range & signal strength.

Where did you find this info? I've just found that it is due for release now in Q2 2016?
Title: Re: Combined VDSL2 Modem Routers
Post by: Al1264 on December 18, 2015, 12:26:08 PM
Could you by any chance list which modem routers do this ?  Is it all the Billions and ZyXels by any chance ... ?  Any others ?
Just for information, the Fritz!Box (7390 and 7490) models have a 'Reconnect' button to drop (and immediately reconnect following a single click) the PPP session, not quite as useful in my opinion as a button to disconnect only on one click then reconnect on a further click if wanting to disconnect PPP prior to disconnecting the DSL.
Title: Re: Combined VDSL2 Modem Routers
Post by: PhilipD on December 18, 2015, 06:24:24 PM
Hi

... it has 3 adjustable antenna, designed to vastly improve its range & signal strength.

There is no 'vastly' about improving range regardless if the antennas are internal or a bit of stripped co-ax wire in over-sized bits of plastic mounted externally on fragile joints waiting for the cat to break them off.  The limitation to range is legislation and the maximum transmit power allowed, and we still have the exact same internal antennas on our tablet and phones anyway. 

The Billion is also using the same Broadcom SoC in use in the current range, it doesn't make use of the newer faster 1Ghz SoC for example, so goodness knows what has taken them so long to get this model out.  The only thing that is different is the chips for Wi-Fi, using a newer standard so they can market it with inflated only to be seen in the laboratory Wi-Fi speeds.  In reality existing devices will run at much the same speed as they do now.

Regards

Phil


Title: Re: Combined VDSL2 Modem Routers
Post by: fincastle84 on December 19, 2015, 02:00:02 PM
Quote
Where did you find this info?

Directly from Billion UK by email. :thumbs:
Title: Re: Combined VDSL2 Modem Routers
Post by: michty_me on December 19, 2015, 03:26:39 PM
Quote
Where did you find this info?

Directly from Billion UK by email. :thumbs:

Nice one!
I got Q2 from the Billion Australia Facebook page.
Title: Re: Combined VDSL2 Modem Routers
Post by: jack21 on December 21, 2015, 11:07:31 AM
....also from Billion UK Sales today:

 "8900AX-1600 and 8900AX-2400 will be launching in Jan 2016!
  Should be out with Broadbandbuyer first."
Title: Re: Combined VDSL2 Modem Routers
Post by: fincastle84 on December 21, 2015, 11:29:14 AM
Quote
Having struggled with umpteen reboots on a TP-Link VR900 and my line speed plummeting, it's clear that rebooting just the router side would be extremely useful.

A user on the Plusnet forum has been issued with trial firmware which seems to have alleviated this problem. One of the theories associates the 900 being connected to an ECI cabinet.
Title: Re: Combined VDSL2 Modem Routers
Post by: fincastle84 on December 21, 2015, 11:40:31 AM
Smoothie::

Here's the info plus link from the PN thread. Good luck!

Quote
http://community.plus.net/forum/index.php/topic,146807.0.html
Title: Re: Combined VDSL2 Modem Routers
Post by: michty_me on December 21, 2015, 12:14:48 PM
....also from Billion UK Sales today:

 "8900AX-1600 and 8900AX-2400 will be launching in Jan 2016!
  Should be out with Broadbandbuyer first."

Excellent! About time too!
Title: Re: Combined VDSL2 Modem Routers
Post by: kitz on February 02, 2016, 03:44:36 PM
Thanks guys updated the thread.

Quote
8900AX-2400

According to broadband buyer it should be available from mid Feb. The 8900AX-1600 due end of Feb.
They now have the 8900X available for £138, but there is no wifi.
Title: Re: Combined VDSL2 Modem Routers
Post by: ejs on February 02, 2016, 03:50:39 PM
I think the Netgear D7800 uses a Lantiq VRX320 chip for its DSL (and Atheros chips for everything else).
Title: Re: Combined VDSL2 Modem Routers
Post by: kitz on February 02, 2016, 04:04:36 PM
Thanks ejs.   I will edit accordingly.
Title: Re: Combined VDSL2 Modem Routers
Post by: kitz on February 02, 2016, 04:08:56 PM
@ Kitz
Some months ago you posted on the Plusnet forum that "With mine I can terminate my Plusnet session without having to drop sync.   I just click a button in the web gui, then click it again to reconnect & get a new session.   There are several other routers that do this too".

Having struggled with umpteen reboots on a TP-Link VR900 and my line speed plummeting, it's clear that rebooting just the router side would be extremely useful.

Could you by any chance list which modem routers do this ?  Is it all the Billions and ZyXels by any chance ... ?  Any others ?

I'm looking forward to your reply so I can do a little research over Christmas ...  ::)

Hi sorry, missed this post earlier.

Unfortunately I dont think it will be one of the things I can add to the list as it is supposed to be a summary rather than full tech specs.
The difficulty with listing this, is quite often its not obvious that a particular router has this facility until you are familiar with the GUI.
That said I think most Billions and Zyxels do offer it. 
Title: Re: Combined VDSL2 Modem Routers
Post by: Buckchoi on February 03, 2016, 06:56:55 AM
The Netgear D7000 uses BCM63138, not BCM63168.
Title: Re: Combined VDSL2 Modem Routers
Post by: kitz on February 03, 2016, 12:46:14 PM
Thank you - also added to the wiki.   
Title: Re: Combined VDSL2 Modem Routers
Post by: kitzuser87430 on February 21, 2016, 12:12:12 PM
The tp-link TD-W9970 is a cheap vdsl2/adsl modem router with broadcom chipset

TBB mini review http://www.thinkbroadband.com/news/7361-mini-review-of-low-cost-tp-link-w9970-vdsl2-modem-router.html (http://www.thinkbroadband.com/news/7361-mini-review-of-low-cost-tp-link-w9970-vdsl2-modem-router.html)

---
Admin Edit - Thank you :)
Also reviewed by kitz -  TD-W9970 review (http://www.kitz.co.uk/routers/TP-Link tplink_TD-W9970_review.htm)
Title: Re: Combined VDSL2 Modem Routers
Post by: EndlessWaves on March 15, 2016, 08:56:12 PM
I only discovered this list after I'd trawled through the manufacturers websites, so here are a few models you're missing. They're all Wireless AC as that was my criteria.

TrendNET TEW-816DRM £65
http://www.trendnet.com/products/wifi/modem-routers/AC750/TEW-816DRM

Linksys X6200 £80
http://www.linksys.com/gb/p/P-X6200/

Asus DSL-AC56U £110
https://www.asus.com/uk/Networking/DSL-AC56U/

---
Admin Edit
Thank you added to list
Title: Re: Combined VDSL2 Modem Routers
Post by: ejs on March 16, 2016, 04:16:47 PM
I poked through the firmware for the 4 new (to me) Asus models, to determine the DSL chipset, or at least which DSL chipset vendor.

DSL-AC56U: MediaTek (driver module: tc3162_dmt.ko)
DSL-AC52U: MediaTek (driver module: tc3162_dmt.ko)
DSL-N17U: MediaTek (driver module: tc3162_dmt.ko)
DSL-N16: MediaTek (driver module: tc3162_dmt.ko)

The TrendChip (DSL) and RaLink (wireless) companies merged, the resulting company is MediaTek.

---
Admin Edit.
Thank you - added to list except DSL-N16U (https://www.asus.com/uk/Networking/DSL-N16/) as I cant find UK retailer and the DSL-N16U is ADSL only 
Title: Re: Combined VDSL2 Modem Routers
Post by: Weaver on March 16, 2016, 06:45:24 PM
The TC3162 chipset is as used in the DLink DSL-320B-Z1 ?

--
Admin Note to self - DSL-320B-Z1 is adsl only
Title: Re: Combined VDSL2 Modem Routers
Post by: ejs on March 16, 2016, 07:46:42 PM
There is a limit to what you can find from looking through the firmware, there may well be common drivers that work with more than one chip, or, perhaps in this case, someone decided to keep using an old file name with newer generations of hardware.

Looking at the AC56U firmware, there's also mt7510ptm and mt7510sar kernel modules (PTM as used with VDSL2, SAR probably an abbreviation for "segmentation and re-assembly", for ATM). The tc3162_dmt.ko contains strings with MT7510, MT7555, and 3262L1Afe3095 and 3262L1Afe60901 - it seems to have a lot of different things for different DSLAM chip vendors (as will other modems).

So I'm pretty confident it's a MediaTek DSL chip, but I can't tell which specific chip from looking at the firmware. Which exact chip might be provided from the running device, in some stats or logs or command output, or failing that, opening one up and reading what's written on the chip itself.
Title: Re: Combined VDSL2 Modem Routers
Post by: ejs on May 29, 2016, 06:58:06 PM
I used binwalk on the TRENDnet TEW-816DRM firmware 1.0.0.1. It must have a MediaTek VDSL2 chipset, like the Asus devices.

Admin Edit.
Thanks, info added
Title: Re: Combined VDSL2 Modem Routers
Post by: EndlessWaves on July 04, 2016, 12:45:39 PM
It looks like the AC1600 TP-Link VR600 is now out.

Admin Edit
Thanks - added.
Title: Re: Combined VDSL2 Modem Routers
Post by: Oldjim on July 24, 2016, 12:39:36 PM
Any chance of an update for the Billion 8800NL R2 http://www.broadbandbuyer.co.uk/products/25615-billion-bipac-8800nl-r2/

Admin Edit
Added to List
Title: Re: Combined VDSL2 Modem Routers
Post by: j0hn on September 28, 2016, 03:40:26 AM
https://www.asus.com/Networking/DSL-AC87VG/
apparently uses Broadcom BCM63138
am I right in thinking this chipset supports g-fast?
Title: Re: Combined VDSL2 Modem Routers
Post by: PhilipD on September 28, 2016, 07:40:49 AM
Hi

https://www.asus.com/Networking/DSL-AC87VG/
apparently uses Broadcom BCM63138
am I right in thinking this chipset supports g-fast?

Just because a data sheet mentions a chip can support a certain technology doesn't mean the products that use it will or can in the future.  It takes more than just a chip to enable G-Fast.  If Asus isn't selling the router with G.Fast, then with 100% certainty it will not support it now or anytime in the future.

Regards

Phil
Title: Re: Combined VDSL2 Modem Routers
Post by: j0hn on September 28, 2016, 09:43:48 AM
I'm well aware this model doesn't support g-fast, I never asked if it did.
I know 1 of the newer broadcom chipsets support vdsl2 & g-fast, I was asking if it was the BCM63138.

Asus have decided to support vdsl2 profile 35b (vplus) with this model. What I've read about vplus doesn't look very promising. It seems to suffer much more from crosstalk, meaning rates can easily drop below 17a and the vectoring requires around 4x more memory.
Title: Re: Combined VDSL2 Modem Routers
Post by: PhilipD on September 28, 2016, 10:49:13 AM
Hi

I'm well aware this model doesn't support g-fast, I never asked if it did.
I know 1 of the newer broadcom chipsets support vdsl2 & g-fast, I was asking if it was the BCM63138.

Asus have decided to support vdsl2 profile 35b (vplus) with this model. What I've read about vplus doesn't look very promising. It seems to suffer much more from crosstalk, meaning rates can easily drop below 17a and the vectoring requires around 4x more memory.

Sorry, it read as if you were hoping G.Fast might be supported by that router at some point.

In the UK at least, VDSL is stuck at 17a, it will be G.Fast bringing faster speeds and higher frequencies, so 35b isn't a selling point for the UK market, although I'm sure marketing likes the higher numbers they can list on the box!  ;)

Regards

Phil
Title: Re: Combined VDSL2 Modem Routers
Post by: ejs on September 28, 2016, 07:15:31 PM
Is the Asus DSL-AC87VG even going to be for the UK? The specifications list "Annex B/J (Annex B HW)", and the presence of the telephony support makes it appear to be more aimed at other European countries than the UK.
Title: Re: Combined VDSL2 Modem Routers
Post by: mjgr33n on October 03, 2016, 04:01:15 PM
Is the Asus DSL-AC87VG even going to be for the UK? The specifications list "Annex B/J (Annex B HW)", and the presence of the telephony support makes it appear to be more aimed at other European countries than the UK.

I have only seen it for sale in Germany at the moment, if they do release it in UK I suspect it might have a slightly different SKU or model number.
Title: Re: Combined VDSL2 Modem Routers
Post by: dodgydrains on February 08, 2017, 08:11:51 AM
DSL-AC88U will be the model coming to the UK

https://www.asus.com/Networking/DSL-AC88U/
Title: Re: Combined VDSL2 Modem Routers
Post by: michty_me on February 08, 2017, 10:21:05 AM
DSL-AC88U will be the model coming to the UK

https://www.asus.com/Networking/DSL-AC88U/

That doesn't look cheap! Is this the one that reportedly is using broadcom chipsets for the DSL side now?
Title: Re: Combined VDSL2 Modem Routers
Post by: roseway on February 08, 2017, 10:34:39 AM
The router-only version RT-AC88U is £250 on Amazon. I don't think I'll be in any hurry to buy the DSL-AC88U. :)
Title: Re: Combined VDSL2 Modem Routers
Post by: michty_me on February 08, 2017, 12:02:14 PM
The router-only version RT-AC88U is £250 on Amazon. I don't think I'll be in any hurry to buy the DSL-AC88U. :)

I think many would be put off with the issues with the DSL-AC68U. I certainly wouldn't be rushing into anything until it is proven.
Title: Re: Combined VDSL2 Modem Routers
Post by: babis3g on February 10, 2017, 02:45:45 PM
Is the Asus DSL-AC87VG even going to be for the UK? The specifications list "Annex B/J (Annex B HW)", and the presence of the telephony support makes it appear to be more aimed at other European countries than the UK.
The dsl ac87vg is only for annex B countries ... it will not be any annex A version ( the info i have because with annex A version are too many EU providers with voip so each isp have different voip settings, Asus seems is not ready for this voip challenge) ... if some one has vdsl line, the annex B should work, but if the dslam has adsl fallback (some EU countries have) or change back to adsl it will not work, so maybe is not point getting it
Title: Re: Combined VDSL2 Modem Routers
Post by: babis3g on February 10, 2017, 02:53:43 PM
I think many would be put off with the issues with the DSL-AC68U. I certainly wouldn't be rushing into anything until it is proven.
This model now has a broadcom xdsl chipset BCM63138, which other broadcoms seems are ok, my guess if any issue (regarding the line) its not due to Asus but broadcom (obviously Asus will look bad) ... but if any other issue regarding routing bugs, again my guess they will look at it fast ... the broadcom should be fine now even to different dslams because are well known for their stability (in most cases)
Title: Re: Combined VDSL2 Modem Routers
Post by: michty_me on February 10, 2017, 03:41:57 PM
Lets hope so or many more people will be buying more expensive paperweights.
Title: Re: Combined VDSL2 Modem Routers
Post by: Chrysalis on February 11, 2017, 12:07:06 AM
best to avoid all in one units in my opinion 250 is very expensive also in practical terms the ac88 and ac87 are no better than the ac68
Title: Re: Combined VDSL2 Modem Routers
Post by: Chunkers on February 11, 2017, 04:47:50 AM
best to avoid all in one units in my opinion 250 is very expensive also in practical terms the ac88 and ac87 are no better than the ac68

This is also my view, there is definite logic in separating modem, router and WAP.  Main problem I find is that "normal" people want a one-box solution, I guess you can understand this from a convenience point of view.

My mum, for example, has no idea there is a way of accessing her router (at all) and just uses the default settings on the "sticker" and the switch on the wall socket to reboot it :D

After some initial optimism, my RT-AC68U was relegated to a WAP a couple of years ago after the issues I encountered with it. Steering clear of Asus stuff now.

I wonder what the most bomb-proof "Granny friendly" all-in-one modem-WAP-router is?

Chunks
Title: Re: Combined VDSL2 Modem Routers
Post by: j0hn on February 11, 2017, 01:58:51 PM
babis3g just confirmed on thinkbroadband that telnet will be blocked on the Asus DSL-AC88U. Their DSL stats on the web interface also gives absolutely no ES numbers.
So they listened, switched to broadcom, then blocked the CLI via telnet. That's enough of a reason for me not to buy 1!
Title: Re: Combined VDSL2 Modem Routers
Post by: Chrysalis on February 11, 2017, 02:10:57 PM
the new devices are been restricted to keep the wifi regulators happy
Title: Re: Combined VDSL2 Modem Routers
Post by: Chunkers on February 11, 2017, 02:24:24 PM
the new devices are been restricted to keep the wifi regulators happy

Perhaps third party firmware will solve this issue for users (not me obviously!)
Title: Re: Combined VDSL2 Modem Routers
Post by: Chrysalis on February 13, 2017, 05:50:30 AM
Asus are also making it harder to flash 3rd party firmware as well.
Title: Re: Combined VDSL2 Modem Routers
Post by: j0hn on February 13, 2017, 06:17:50 AM
None of the DSL variants are compatible with dd-wrt/open-wrt/merlin/tomato etc. Only the RT variants can be flashed with 3rd party firmware.
Title: Re: Combined VDSL2 Modem Routers
Post by: dodgydrains on February 16, 2017, 08:38:24 PM
Looks like the DSL-AC88U will be priced quite reasonably compared to the competition at £220

http://www.ispreview.co.uk/index.php/2017/02/asus-release-dsl-ac88u-one-first-g-fast-broadband-wifi-routers.html

Title: Re: Combined VDSL2 Modem Routers
Post by: psychopomp1 on February 27, 2017, 10:01:33 AM
Looks like the DSL-AC88U will be priced quite reasonably compared to the competition at £220

http://www.ispreview.co.uk/index.php/2017/02/asus-release-dsl-ac88u-one-first-g-fast-broadband-wifi-routers.html

There's more chance of me marrying Theresa May and having cute triplets by natural methods than there is of Asus pricing the DSL-AC88U at 220 notes. The RT version is priced between 200-250 so the DSL model should cost at least £300 when first released. As an example, look at how much the recently released Netgear D8500 costs...
Title: Re: Combined VDSL2 Modem Routers
Post by: roseway on February 27, 2017, 10:06:10 AM
Are we all invited to the wedding? :drink:
Title: Re: Combined VDSL2 Modem Routers
Post by: psychopomp1 on February 27, 2017, 10:29:33 AM
Are we all invited to the wedding? :drink:

If she's willing to have a toyboy husband then sure!!  :love2: :baby: :baby: :baby:
Title: Re: Combined VDSL2 Modem Routers
Post by: dodgydrains on March 15, 2017, 08:36:00 PM
https://vip.asus.com/forum/view.aspx?id=20170315075013366&board_id=11&model=DSL-AC88U&page=1&SLanguage=en-us

Seems like someone got hold of a DSL-AC88U from PC World for £209.

If true, looks like a decent price.
Title: Re: Combined VDSL2 Modem Routers
Post by: michty_me on March 15, 2017, 11:52:02 PM
It will be interesting to hear how they get on with it.
What are people's thoughts on stability with previous devices. Is it chooser related, firmware issues or both?
Personally, I've never read of glowing reports of any Asus DSL labelled device myself.
Title: Re: Combined VDSL2 Modem Routers
Post by: dodgydrains on April 10, 2017, 06:51:00 PM
http://www.ebuyer.com/786250-ac3100-dual-band-adsl-vdsl-gigabit-wi-fi-modem-router-dsl-ac88u

Price already under £200.  Once firmware matures this will be an awesome choice.

[Moderator edit to fix the URL.]
Title: Re: Combined VDSL2 Modem Routers
Post by: mjgr33n on April 21, 2017, 04:57:04 PM
It will be interesting to hear how they get on with it.
What are people's thoughts on stability with previous devices. Is it chooser related, firmware issues or both?
Personally, I've never read of glowing reports of any Asus DSL labelled device myself.

I have an ASUS DSL-AC88U, so far it has been the best combined VDSL router I have ever owned, going on holiday tomorrow but will post some stats when I get back to compare versus the Netgear D7000 I had before.
Title: Re: Combined VDSL2 Modem Routers
Post by: jaydub on April 21, 2017, 05:01:26 PM
I have an ASUS DSL-AC88U, so far it has been the best combined VDSL router I have ever owned, going on holiday tomorrow but will post some stats when I get back to compare versus the Netgear D7000 I had before.

I look forward to the comparison.
Title: Re: Combined VDSL2 Modem Routers
Post by: psychopomp1 on May 02, 2017, 06:32:25 AM
There's more chance of me marrying Theresa May and having cute triplets by natural methods than there is of Asus pricing the DSL-AC88U at 220 notes.

http://www.ebuyer.com/786250-ac3100-dual-band-adsl-vdsl-gigabit-wi-fi-modem-router-dsl-ac88u
Price already under £200.  Once firmware matures this will be an awesome choice.

Me eat humble pie :(
Title: Re: Combined VDSL2 Modem Routers
Post by: youngsyp on May 09, 2017, 05:05:51 PM
Slight amendment needed re the Billion BiPAC 8800NL R2 specs. It has 1GbE port (the WAN port) and 4 Mbit (10/100) switched ports. Details here: http://uk.billion.com/Business%7CSoHo/xDSL%20Wireless%20AP%20Series/BiPAC%208800NL%20R2

Paul


Admin - Done Thanks
Title: Re: Combined VDSL2 Modem Routers
Post by: btsimonh on June 02, 2017, 08:24:55 AM
might be interesting to note which of these supports the full 1500 mtu (using RFC4638).
I've just got this working on a BT homehub 5 with LEDE and a direct vdsl connection.
I found that the ECI modem I was using was (permenently) limited to 1500 bytes on ethernet, and so mtu=1500 could never be achieved with this in the way as the ethernet must support 1508.  (the HH5 also was limited to 1500 until I patched the ethernet driver, but the vdsl driver is already patched).

(mtu of 1500 is really quite important if you run any kind of service behind the router, because MTU discovery on the general internet has some issues. If you are mainly focused on outgoing, then it's less of an issue, but still a nice-to-have if your ISP supports if.  BT Openreach FTTC lines are said to support it throughout the UK).
s
Title: Re: Combined VDSL2 Modem Routers
Post by: broadstairs on March 10, 2018, 12:13:42 PM
A full router/modem single box Netgear D6220 which has gigabit LAN and is Broadcom so runs DSLStats.

Stuart
Title: Re: Combined VDSL2 Modem Routers
Post by: Silverback on February 08, 2020, 04:26:27 PM
Worth adding the Draytek 2862? (I have ac version)

Circa - £260
Has BT approved firmware version
G.INP and Vectoring
Dual Band WiFi
DSL and Ethernet WAN ports.
4xGbps Ethernet ports (5 if not using Ethernet WAN)
Chipset - Intel-Lantiq - PXB4369EL - V2.1

Plenty of features.

https://www.draytek.co.uk/products/business/vigor-2862#specifications

Although at the moment I have a question over the BT Firmware with non-vectoring, G.INP Huawei Cabinets. This may be corrected by swapping to non-BT non-vectoring firmware and modem code but I cannot confirm this yet...

The other issue with this as a combined modem / router is it seems to like to be rebooted a lot when config changed are made.  So when making config changes you may end up rebooting the router multiple times and of course the VDSL2 link is resets each time.  This can upset the DLM...

Title: Re: Combined VDSL2 Modem Routers
Post by: g3uiss on February 08, 2020, 04:31:05 PM
I think you will find although the device asks for a reboot, if you donít the configuration is applied. Common issue with Draytecs.
Title: Re: Combined VDSL2 Modem Routers
Post by: Silverback on February 09, 2020, 12:26:38 PM
I think you will find although the device asks for a reboot, if you donít the configuration is applied. Common issue with Draytecs.

I have done just that at times but I'm not sure how consistent the results are.  On a number of occasions the router seemed happy to take a config change without a reboot but I'm fairly sure I had some VLAN stuff go wafferty when ignoring the reboot prompt and only a later reboot sorted it.

Ignoring reboot prompts never makes me feel warm inside :(
Title: Re: Combined VDSL2 Modem Routers
Post by: burakkucat on February 09, 2020, 04:35:07 PM
I have always advised, when configuration changes are to be made to a modem (or modem/router), to always disconnect the device from the incoming line. Hence any re-boots of the device are not seen by the DSLAM.
Title: Re: Combined VDSL2 Modem Routers
Post by: Silverback on February 09, 2020, 05:02:15 PM
I have always advised, when configuration changes are to be made to a modem (or modem/router), to always disconnect the device from the incoming line. Hence any re-boots of the device are not seen by the DSLAM.

Would that not still cause a retrain?  I was under the impression it's retrains the DLM counts, forced or unforced...?
Title: Re: Combined VDSL2 Modem Routers
Post by: burakkucat on February 09, 2020, 05:35:04 PM
Ideally, the pedantic protocol to follow would be --
The 30 minute wait is recommended due to the fact that the DLM considers those parameters, which it monitors, in 15 minute blocks. It is not known where any 15 minute block would begin and end. Thus by allowing 30 minutes to elapse, there is one complete 15 minute block in which the DLM will see no data and, hopefully, will take that as an indication of a planned outage and not circuit instability.
Title: Re: Combined VDSL2 Modem Routers
Post by: Silverback on February 09, 2020, 07:12:18 PM
I'm to old and impatient to wait 30 mins to get back online :-)
Title: Re: Combined VDSL2 Modem Routers
Post by: les-70 on March 12, 2020, 06:32:20 PM
Review of a SBG3300-N000

This Zyxel model is old and expensive when new.  I managed to spot a £20 one on the bay which was in fact new judging by the packing.   It needed a reset to login and judging by the default settings it was from a South African ISP. 

Admin login via telnet gives access to what seems like Zyxel supervisor level with sh working.  Clearing ROM D removed the ISP settings and the latest firmware was loaded.  From posts on Kitz I was expecting it to have a 6368  chip but it seems to be a 63168.

> cat /proc/cpuinfo
system type             : 963168MXH_17A
etc.........
this is a 63168 but for comparison a VMG1312 gives 63168VX

The latest firmware has a dsl version A2pv6F039n which is an old version for a 63168.

Internally the dsl circuit components look identical to a VMG1312 with the same common mode filter built in. Again like the VMG1312 header pins are provided for serial connections.

Setting up the SBG3300 is much the same as for other Zyxelís but there are more options for business type features. I got stuck for a while as the there was no internet access through it until I enabled a load balancing priority for the dsl connection. The gui is very much faster than that of a VMG1312.

The sync speeds are rather like HG612 on my line.  Relative to a VMG1312 - down about 0.5Mb/s on downstream but up about the same amount on upstream. The error rates are very good and essentially the same as a VMG1312 with the latest firmware. The low error rates surprised me as dsl firmware as old as A2pv6F039n  perform quite badly on my line when in a VMG1312.  I guess something is different.

The wireless is only 2.4GHz but it has much greater range than that of the VMG1312.  I tend to only use 2.4GHz as 5GHz does not make it to locations where I often use wireless - too many solid walls.

I like the leds on the front which are not too bright. In short this device is now the one I am using as it gives me the best of everything I want.
Title: Re: Combined VDSL2 Modem Routers
Post by: Weaver on March 29, 2020, 04:47:54 AM
Very interesting. Thanks for your review!  :)

Is that still on sale, do you know?

And would you go so far as to say the hardware is possibly actually identical to the VMG1312-B10A, with just a different software load ? You said more businessy?

I might be really interested provided I could get Johnson, to whom I owe so much already, to do a port of his custom firmware. If the unit has some advantages, I would have to get him one to test on, if he were willing. Itís kind of taking the pee out of him; donít want to abuse his generosity further.

What kind of line were you using, and what performance spec ? Iím very interested by what you said about faster upstream. For me a DLink DSL-320B-Z1, which I compare against my ZyXEL VMG1312-B10A on my ultra-long 3.0/0.5 Mbps sync rates ADSL2 line (~7300 m), is slightly faster on the upstream, by 5-10% but the ZyXEL has a small advantage on downstream, maybe 0-10% advantage to the ZyXEL B10A over the DLink out of ~2.9 Mbps d/s. I have no idea why there is this upstream advantage in the Dlink. The Dlinkís usual game is to run at an SNRM which is way below target and thus to get a speed advantage that way. This is certainly true for the downstream but might be true in the upstream as well, which I would have to take another look at to refresh my memory. But then the question simply moves to why does it run too hot, below the target in upstream then (ditto on downstream). The ZyXEL is still faster even though the DLink runs at too low an SNRM, but it still is faster downstream. This is because it has Adsl2 PhyR L2-RETX error correction (like G.INP) on the downstream (only) since luckily the exchange is protocol compatible with this proprietary protocol and this causes a massive improvement in reliability and speed. It can run at very low SNRM without any problem at all.

Iím extremely interested in your report of improved upstream as this is something Iím desperate for. I donít know the context: itís an extra 0.5Mbps upstream, but out of what/compared with what ? If I had 0.5 Mbps extra u/s * 4 lines then that ~2Mbps less bonding inefficiency would rock my world, as I only have ~1.3-1.55 Mbps u/s in total anyway, and thatís 4 lines combined. So very interesting.
Title: Re: Combined VDSL2 Modem Routers
Post by: neil on March 29, 2020, 03:26:47 PM
I have always advised, when configuration changes are to be made to a modem (or modem/router), to always disconnect the device from the incoming line. Hence any re-boots of the device are not seen by the DSLAM.
why is that is it bad for DSLAM to see our modem rebooting again and again? Or DSLAM will put us in some list?
Title: Re: Combined VDSL2 Modem Routers
Post by: tubaman on March 29, 2020, 03:55:34 PM
why is that is it bad for DSLAM to see our modem rebooting again and again? Or DSLAM will put us in some list?
In the UK too many line drops (reboots) in short succession will make the DSLAM think the line has deteriorated and DLM will then take action to stabilise the line. This can result in a capped line rate which can be hard to shift.
 :)
Title: Re: Combined VDSL2 Modem Routers
Post by: fatihso on May 15, 2020, 12:11:17 PM
Hey guys, has anyone tried this product yet? It has many features, nice interface and modular packages I'm interested in buying it and need opinions thank you.

https://keenetic.com/global/keenetic-extra-dsl

Title: Re: Combined VDSL2 Modem Routers
Post by: ejs on May 15, 2020, 06:56:21 PM
The specifications state its CPU is EN7513T - EcoNet a.k.a. MediaTek - as in the awful DSL modem in the Asus DSL-AC68U. 100Mb Ethernet ports and fairly dated 5GHz wifi. Dated hardware and all of its distinguishing features seem to be done by software. I wouldn't touch it with an extra long barge pole.
Title: Re: Combined VDSL2 Modem Routers
Post by: fatihso on May 16, 2020, 12:08:18 AM
The specifications state its CPU is EN7513T - EcoNet a.k.a. MediaTek - as in the awful DSL modem in the Asus DSL-AC68U. 100Mb Ethernet ports and fairly dated 5GHz wifi. Dated hardware and all of its distinguishing features seem to be done by software. I wouldn't touch it with an extra long barge pole.

Thanks for comment ac68u is still very expensive combo here. Above product is like one third price of it here.
What is the best combined vdsl2 modem router in your opinion that's not dated and awful? Thank you.
Title: Re: Combined VDSL2 Modem Routers
Post by: KPG on June 12, 2020, 10:28:20 AM
Hello everyone.

I'm new here and it seems like the perfect place to come to for advice.

I am looking to buy a combined modem-router as a backup. My existing model (TP-Link Archer VR900) has been fine so far - I've had it running for about two months since switching to FTTC broadband - but there have been a couple of dropouts recently and I would like to have a different model on standby.

I've checked reviews online but as you know they vary wildly and combined models don't seem to be especially common. My ISP has recommended ZyXel and Billion to me in the past but I have never used any brand other than TP-Link so I'm in the dark there.

I am not technically minded, so layman's terms would be much appreciated.
Title: Re: Combined VDSL2 Modem Routers
Post by: tiffy on June 12, 2020, 12:05:42 PM
Hi,

Welcome to the forum.

Zyxel modem/routers are indeed very well respected by the patrons here, I have 2 old Billion models in operation on my son's and daughter's VDSL lines also which perform without any issues, that's the 8800NLr1 and 8800NLr2 respectively, both old models now and probably difficult to source, the r1 version being the better respected model.
I changed these out from the ISP's supplied units in order to run the DSLStats utility and keep an eye on their lines performances remotely.

I picked up a Zyxel VMG3925-B10B modem/router a few weeks ago on e-bay for £30 + P&P, advertised as brand new and unbranded, this indeed turned out to be the case, very pleased with the purchase, currently in use on my line in router only mode.
There are quite a few of this model still on e-bay at good prices, just make sure that they are not locked to an ISP as it takes a bit of tech. knowledge to unlock the units, in worst cases requiring case opening and establishing a serial connection, this would likely be beyond your cumfort zone.
The VMG3925-B10B was supplied by a number of UK and Irish ISP's so there are quite a lot still around some indeed brand new as many customers opted to retain their own devices when changing ISP's but obviously took the offers of free supplied kit at sign up.

As a bonus, if you should ever get the urge/have the requirement  to monitor or record your line stat's the Broadcom chipset used by Zyxel permits access via various means with readily available utilities as indeed do the Billion modem/routers mentioned.
Not sure if this facility is available on your current TP-Link modem/router, ie. uses a Broadcom chipset.
Title: Re: Combined VDSL2 Modem Routers
Post by: KPG on June 12, 2020, 01:50:56 PM
Thanks very much for that. Time to get on eBay. One problem I may encounter is that my rather ageing Dell desktop PC, which I use for work, doesn't support wifi. The other devices in the house - laptops, phones, tablet - will be happy enough with a wireless modem-router, but I need a physical ethernet connection to the PC (which I do intend to replace, but one thing at a time). Am I right in thinking the Billion models are wireless only?

I believe my TP-Link does have a Broadcom chipset. At any rate my ISP has previously been able to monitor the line stats.

Title: Re: Combined VDSL2 Modem Routers
Post by: tiffy on June 12, 2020, 02:45:34 PM
Thanks very much for that. Time to get on eBay. One problem I may encounter is that my rather ageing Dell desktop PC, which I use for work, doesn't support wifi. The other devices in the house - laptops, phones, tablet - will be happy enough with a wireless modem-router, but I need a physical ethernet connection to the PC (which I do intend to replace, but one thing at a time). Am I right in thinking the Billion models are wireless only?

I believe my TP-Link does have a Broadcom chipset. At any rate my ISP has previously been able to monitor the line stats.

Quote
Am I right in thinking the Billion models are wireless only?
No, have never seen any router, modem/router that did not have 4 LAN ports, some have a WAN port also to facilitate usage in bridge mode or use with a cable system, this is the case with the Zyxel VMG3925-B10B, all ports being Gb.speed capable, from memory, the Billion 8800NLr1 has only one Gb. ethernet port (+ 3 X 10/100 ports), the 8800NLr2 has 10/100 Gb. ethernet ports only.
The Billion models have 2.4 Gb. Wi-Fi only, the Zyxel unit have 2.4 and 5 Gb. Wi-Fi.

Ethernet, cable connection to your desktop PC is preferable in my opinion, no worries with not having Wi-Fi on your PC, I don't either.

The Zyxel's Wi-Fi performance is not supposed to be exceptional by any means, I have not had any issues so far, only using 2.4 Gb, no 5 Gb. devices currently on hand.

Quote
I believe my TP-Link does have a Broadcom chipset. At any rate my ISP has previously been able to monitor the line stats
Your ISP will have access to sophisticated server based diagnostics for line monitoring regardless of your modem model, local access to your modem to harvest line stats is a different concept which is subject to access permissions and chipset technology.
Title: Re: Combined VDSL2 Modem Routers
Post by: KPG on June 12, 2020, 04:49:13 PM
Appreciate the info.

I always assumed that ethernet was better for speeds and stability, but of course it may not be practical for everybody.
Title: Re: Combined VDSL2 Modem Routers
Post by: tiffy on June 12, 2020, 07:42:28 PM
Appreciate the info.

I always assumed that ethernet was better for speeds and stability, but of course it may not be practical for everybody.

Absolutely, I thought that's what I just said, apologies if my narrative was not clear.
Title: Re: Combined VDSL2 Modem Routers
Post by: JohnMcL7 on August 11, 2020, 01:21:29 AM
Worth adding the Draytek 2862? (I have ac version)

Circa - £260
Has BT approved firmware version
G.INP and Vectoring
Dual Band WiFi
DSL and Ethernet WAN ports.
4xGbps Ethernet ports (5 if not using Ethernet WAN)
Chipset - Intel-Lantiq - PXB4369EL - V2.1

Plenty of features.

https://www.draytek.co.uk/products/business/vigor-2862#specifications

Although at the moment I have a question over the BT Firmware with non-vectoring, G.INP Huawei Cabinets. This may be corrected by swapping to non-BT non-vectoring firmware and modem code but I cannot confirm this yet...

The other issue with this as a combined modem / router is it seems to like to be rebooted a lot when config changed are made.  So when making config changes you may end up rebooting the router multiple times and of course the VDSL2 link is resets each time.  This can upset the DLM...

I've been wondering about this Draytek as well given they generally have a very good reputation plus there's a non-wireless which I'm thinking would make sense to separate out to a better wifi system, after reading a lot of VDSL articles the Draytek rarely seems to get mentioned.  I've been looking at the TP-Link VR2800 as well but then read some comments it's not so good with an ECI cabinet but it looks like the Draytek should be fine.

I feel like I'm going round and round in circles with user reviews because any product has a fair number of one star reviews and it's difficult to know which ones to trust.  I currently have a Netgear D7000 which was ok initially (although didn't resolve a line dropping issue present on the HH5) and worked well with Xbox Live services but recently it seems to be dying in its old age and it's locking up several times per day which I know is going to cause me other problems.  I don't mind forking out for something to get reliable performance and that does what I want but I'm wary of spending the money and then having something which is unreliable.
Title: Re: Combined VDSL2 Modem Routers
Post by: Silverback on August 13, 2020, 11:11:45 AM
I've ended up separating the DSL link from the Draytek. One of the reasons was the Draytek likes to be restarted when configuration changes are made.  Of course every time you restart the router it resets DSL line link and this can upset the DLM. Using a separate 'modem' means that only the PPP connection is reset and the DSL link stays up keeping the DLM happy. 
Title: Re: Combined VDSL2 Modem Routers
Post by: Cubes73 on August 16, 2020, 05:20:31 PM
Iím looking to replace a Billion 8800AXL router/ modem with a device with better wireless range. The Billion has been very reliable, but WiFi range isnít the best, and Iím looking to get WiFi in the garden. I do have WiFi in my whole house, but itís patchy upstairs in my 3 bedroom house. I was thinking about the TP Link VR2800 or would I be best going for a device that utilises the new WiFi 6 format? Ideally Iíd be looking to get a combined router/modem that is future proof (G.fast and WiFi 6 compatible), but itís not essential. I had thought about a mesh WiFi system, but I heard they donít work well with Sky Q. Looking to spend up to £170. Many thanks in advance.
Title: Re: Combined VDSL2 Modem Routers
Post by: Alex Atkin UK on August 16, 2020, 06:11:08 PM
In my opinion there isn't really a "future proof" option right now as WiFi 6 is not finalised yet (plus WiFi 6e on the way) and G.fast probably will never happen as FTTP is the priority now.

The only really future proof thing would be to pick a router capable of Gigabit speeds, which is not as easy as it sounds as manufacturers do not advertise what speed they can route at.

If all you want is better WiFi range, a separate WiFi access point is almost certainly best, at the cost of taking up another plug socket and running an ethernet cable to it.  But if you're wanting WiFi 6, best to wait until next year when hopefully WiFi 6 will finally have been ratified so compatibility can be guaranteed.
Title: Re: Combined VDSL2 Modem Routers
Post by: j0hn on August 16, 2020, 08:00:07 PM
oing for a device that utilises the new WiFi 6 format? Ideally Iíd be looking to get a combined router/modem that is future proof (G.fast and WiFi 6 compatible), but itís not essential.

If you don't currently have G.Fast rolled out to you then not much point getting a device that supports it for future proofing.

The G.Fast rollout is pretty much dead.
Title: Re: Combined VDSL2 Modem Routers
Post by: Cubes73 on August 17, 2020, 12:36:10 PM
In my opinion there isn't really a "future proof" option right now as WiFi 6 is not finalised yet (plus WiFi 6e on the way) and G.fast probably will never happen as FTTP is the priority now.

The only really future proof thing would be to pick a router capable of Gigabit speeds, which is not as easy as it sounds as manufacturers do not advertise what speed they can route at.

If all you want is better WiFi range, a separate WiFi access point is almost certainly best, at the cost of taking up another plug socket and running an ethernet cable to it.  But if you're wanting WiFi 6, best to wait until next year when hopefully WiFi 6 will finally have been ratified so compatibility can be guaranteed.
Thanks for the reply, much appreciated. It sounds like I should forget about G.fast. I just wanted to be able to take advantage of it, if it became available in our area. WiFi range is more important, as Iím currently remote accessing my work PC, which can be quite slow at times. The Billion does reach my computer, but 5ghz disconnects at times as well. So looking for a bit more range on 5ghz if possible. I was hoping the Archer VR2800 would help with this. Does anyone have any experience with this device, and itís WiFi range compared to the Billion 8800AXL? Thanks again.