Kitz Forum
Broadband Related => ISPs => Topic started by: Ixel on June 26, 2014, 10:01:09 AM
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Hi all,
I'm looking to switch FTTC ISP after being with BT Business Infinity Option 2 for over two years.
My needs are:
- Up to 80/20 package
- Multiple static IP's (I currently have a usable range of x.x.x.208-x.x.x.214)
- Fairly reliable service at peak times
- Preferrably lower prices than BT, at the moment I personally feel BT's increases in prices are subsidising other services that I don't use (such as BT Sports), which isn't in my interest
Hopefully my needs aren't too demanding and are possible, I'm out of contract so can move anytime :). Landline is BT ?Retail? (Residential) at the moment, will happily move that as well, I also opted out of the 1571 service after finding out that it's charging me extra each month.
Thanks in advance for any assistance offered.
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BT's increases in prices are subsidising other services that I don't use (such as BT Sports)
Probably not on a business package TBH. Is that what you need going forwards?
And how much do BT charge you at present?
Last time I looked at business packages BT were fairly competitive, but that was a while back.
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BT's increases in prices are subsidising other services that I don't use (such as BT Sports)
Probably not on a business package TBH. Is that what you need going forwards?
And how much do BT charge you at present?
I don't mind not being on a business package, as long as it has the option for requesting a few static IP's as opposed to just one static IP. I looked at Zen so far but not sure if they offer multiple static IP's.
In all, I pay...
To BT Retail: *edit* Sorry, I made an error in the post, correct amounts are: £21.47 for line rental and unlimited anytime calls + BT Privacy at Home - Caller Display @ £1.75
To BT Business: £54.60 (BT Infinity for business - Advance Support Option 2 w/ Unlimited Bandwidth + 5 Static IP's)
Making a total of: £77.82 per month
Also, I imagine I'll need to move the FTTC service first then move the phone service once FTTC's switched (as I've heard switching the phone away from BT retail will trigger a cancellation on the BT Infinity for business service).
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How many Static IP's would you require?
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Have a look at TTB, they add in some useful free call features and allow a free block of 4IP's but that is only two actual IP's for use. I have found there support responsive as well.
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How many Static IP's would you require?
Hi,
At the moment I have 5 usable static IP's. At the minimum though I'd like to have 3, but if necessary I can scrap a virtual machine and accept 2 IP's at the very minimum. I run a home server and two other virtual machines on the home server. Other than that, port forwarding or DMZ from the router isn't an option either :).
Have a look at TTB, they add in some useful free call features and allow a free block of 4IP's but that is only two actual IP's for use. I have found there support responsive as well.
Is that TalkTalk Business? If so I'm rather dubious of TalkTalk, but I'll certainly explore that option and be open minded :), thanks for the suggestion.
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Talk Talk business are separate to TT retail.7 day (8am till 8pm) UK based support,which irrc is based in Yorkshire
76/20 FTTC £25.50 a month + £14.50 line rental,this includes free unlimited calls to mobiles and also one or two calling features.And up to 4 static IPs
http://www.talktalkbusiness.co.uk/products-and-services/connectivity-networking/business-broadband/?infinity=gaw~Brand+Pure~Pure_Brand_Exact~36045630846~talktalk%20business~e&gclid=CPrk6rOvl78CFeoJwwodsgEAww
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Talk Talk business are separate to TT retail.7 day (8am till 8pm) UK based support,which irrc is based in Yorkshire
76/20 FTTC £25.50 a month + £14.50 line rental,this includes free unlimited calls to mobiles and also one or two calling features.And up to 4 static IPs
http://www.talktalkbusiness.co.uk/products-and-services/connectivity-networking/business-broadband/?infinity=gaw~Brand+Pure~Pure_Brand_Exact~36045630846~talktalk%20business~e&gclid=CPrk6rOvl78CFeoJwwodsgEAww
Wow, mobiles too! And the fact they are seperate from TalkTalk's home service, so that's certainly tempting. I'll consider that for sure, thanks! Any other suggestions still welcome, I haven't decided just yet :). Thanks for advice so far.
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I imagine I'll need to move the FTTC service first then move the phone service once FTTC's switched (as I've heard switching the phone away from BT retail will trigger a cancellation on the BT Infinity for business service).
Extremely likely, you need to plan the migration carefully.
I'd consider keeping the phone service with BT whatever to minimise such risks.
However it depends on how critical lack of downtime is. If it's important think about installing a new line for the new service then cancelling the old one once it's all up and running. Means a new number though or paying two line rentals.
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I imagine I'll need to move the FTTC service first then move the phone service once FTTC's switched (as I've heard switching the phone away from BT retail will trigger a cancellation on the BT Infinity for business service).
Extremely likely, you need to plan the migration carefully.
I'd consider keeping the phone service with BT whatever to minimise such risks.
However it depends on how critical lack of downtime is. If it's important think about installing a new line for the new service then cancelling the old one once it's all up and running. Means a new number though or paying two line rentals.
I see. Yeah I'll move FTTC first then do the phone later on once FTTC is done with the move.
I'm stuck between Zen (which at the moment is a very tempting option), Plusnet (which I don't know whether they offer multiple static IP's and for which packages) or finally TalkTalk Business.
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I know we (Zen) do multiple IP's and have Unlimited Usage on some packages. If you take the phone as well, then it becomes cheaper.
My Opinion would be PlusNet or Zen.
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I know we (Zen) do multiple IP's and have Unlimited Usage on some packages. If you take the phone as well, then it becomes cheaper.
My Opinion would be PlusNet or Zen.
Would I have to instantly take the phone with broadband at time of order, or could I add the phone later on for it to become cheaper? As I'm most likely going to move the phone after FTTC is migrated.
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We have quite a bit of information available at http://www.plus.net/business/offers/bbbmay14/?WT.mc_id=sem_biz_001 (http://www.plus.net/business/offers/bbbmay14/?WT.mc_id=sem_biz_001).
If you have any direct questions though, you can send a message directly to the Business Sales Team here: http://www.plus.net/business/sales-enquiries/
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Your should be able to take the phone after and then have the cost lowered.
http://www.zen.co.uk/home-office/broadband/fibre-optic-broadband/fibre-and-phone-packages.aspx
You may even wish to call our sale department, as they can give you a better idea about cost and the ins and outs of it all.
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bear in mind talktalk prices isnt what you pay, it excludes vat.
It still looks a not bad package tho, not many providers include 0845,0870 premium numbers and mobiles. Plus LLU backhaul.
I avoided zen for 2 reasons.
Their t&c's seem a bit hostile against the consumer on line faults.
Their approach to ipv6 doesnt seem very pro active.
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IMPO ......... PlusNet.
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Thank you all for your replies.
I was considering Zen (business, unlimited fibre 2 or unlimited fibre office), but after reading the last two replies I'm once again stuck. I look at Plusnet and see a bit of BT in it (despite the fact they're actually operating nothing like BT), but what mostly concerns me is the longer contract time vs Zen, implementation of traffic prioritisation and some comments I've read about possible congestion. And then I look at Zen, I see a company that seems to have no traffic prioritisation implemented, cheaper call rates on business line rental, though on the other hand I haven't found too much user feedback to know for sure whether or not the network has a good amount of spare capacity to not cause congestion issues during peak times. I imagine for both Zen and Plusnet that these problems don't really exist and I'm concerning myself over nothing.
I haven't phoned both companies yet to confirm the pricing and availability of multiple static IP's, but I will be. My first step is to get a MAC out of BT Business, which is the easiest step I hope. The hardest step is to choose between Zen or Plusnet.
Any more opinions are welcome, thanks for the input :).
EDIT #1 (30/06/2014 09:58): Called BT Business, after a short wait I managed to get the request for a code made easily, been told I must wait up to 5 working days and to regularly check my email for the MAC code. Also noticed a reply from Zen Internet in my spam folder that confirms they offer multiple static IP's for both residential and business packages, and there's no extra charge. BT Business have offered me half price 12 months if I renew my contract, though I imagine it would mean another 24 month contract, so after 12 months would return to the normal price. While it's a nice offer, I don't think I'll take BT Business's offer up.
So far it looks like I'll be picking Zen, will keep everyone updated for those curious about what I do and how I managed to get on.
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I'm with plusnet and I can't say I've noticed any issues with traffic prioritisation or congestion.
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The issue with the faults T&C's I'm not entirely sure what they are, however I do know that since Fibre installs, depending on the issue it can be very hard to get OR to resolve the fault if it is based on performance.
If you have any queries do let me know. And as far as IPv6 goes, if you read TBB it's all negative, however what we are not telling people, is that we are Upgrading all our Aggregation Routers from Redbacks to Junipers as the Redbacks do not do IPv6 at all.
This is costing us a lot, however once done, we will be able to offer both Native v6 and Tunnelled v6 options across our estate. (this should not be posted elsewhere please.)
-Azz
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The issue with the faults T&C's I'm not entirely sure what they are, however I do know that since Fibre installs, depending on the issue it can be very hard to get OR to resolve the fault if it is based on performance.
If you have any queries do let me know. And as far as IPv6 goes, if you read TBB it's all negative, however what we are not telling people, is that we are Upgrading all our Aggregation Routers from Redbacks to Junipers as the Redbacks do not do IPv6 at all.
This is costing us a lot, however once done, we will be able to offer both Native v6 and Tunnelled v6 options across our estate. (this should not be posted elsewhere please.)
-Azz
That's great to hear. Obviously I won't post this elsewhere, hopefully others will also honor that request. Thanks.
Well I'm still waiting on the MAC which I've been told (according to regulations) is up to 5 working days. So end of Friday is the deadline, it wouldn't surprise me if BT Business doesn't issue me the code and blames it on a system fault or having no record of my request on the phone, how fortunate that I record all my phone calls >:D. Once I have the code I'm almost certain now that I'll signup to Zen.
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The issue with the faults T&C's I'm not entirely sure what they are, however I do know that since Fibre installs, depending on the issue it can be very hard to get OR to resolve the fault if it is based on performance.
If you have any queries do let me know. And as far as IPv6 goes, if you read TBB it's all negative, however what we are not telling people, is that we are Upgrading all our Aggregation Routers from Redbacks to Junipers as the Redbacks do not do IPv6 at all.
This is costing us a lot, however once done, we will be able to offer both Native v6 and Tunnelled v6 options across our estate. (this should not be posted elsewhere please.)
-Azz
Thats good on the ipv6, if only you posted that on tbb, you would have saved some hassle on there.
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Thats good on the ipv6, if only you posted that on tbb, you would have saved some hassle on there.
I agree. I will be shooting an email to the Bosses to ask if we can post something more substantial as what has been said so far needs to be taken down and re-written.
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I just called BT Business again this morning to make sure the request for a MAC was done. Fortunately it is, but I apparently need to wait until Monday to get the code (where I requested first thing Monday morning). Anyway, while on the call the advisor said that they're the only ISP to guarantee 80% of the connection speed. I assumed this would show up on the BT wholesale performance tester, so I ran a speed test and the minimum speed range for the downstream is 40Mbps, where I sync at the full 80Mbps, so surely the minimum speed range should be around 60Mbps, unless I'm missing something?
(https://forum.kitz.co.uk/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FHvEqyTi.png&hash=db4fbb4550131292a84efaf0380c0a54bd694c34)
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they're the only ISP to guarantee 80% of the connection speed
Hmmm that may be a bit of a porkie pie.
Any ISP that uses the FTTC Elevated traffic option should be able to guarantee a higher throughput for example Zen (http://support.zen.co.uk/kb/Knowledgebase/Fibre-Optic-Broadband-Frequently-Asked-Questions-on-Speeds) offers it to their office users. There are plenty of other ISPs that will offer Elevated for business too.
I guess BT only count the likes of Sky, which dont retail for business use. :/
Even then thats possibly stretching the truth a little.. because any ISP will still be subject to whatever BTw dictate for their part of the 21CN network the guarantee is actually.
WBC Fibre FTTC customers can select either Standard or Elevated downstream throughput options for End-User Access orders.
The Elevated end user‟s traffic is given preferential weighting in the BRAS which gives a higher throughput under congestion of the shared VLAN between the BRAS and DSLAM.
BT Wholesale dimensions the WBC network between the BRAS and the DSLAM according to the demand seen in the network in the busy periods, defined by the busiest 3 hours of the day.
Our network dimensioning rules are designed to ensure that customers receive a given IP throughput based on the product they have purchased, regardless of the activity of other users within this shared part of the network to allow users to achieve a throughput of:
- For End-User Accesses selecting the "Standard" traffic option, BT Wholesale will provide
a throughput level of at least 12 Mbit/s for 90% of the busy 3 hour period. - For End-User Accesses selecting the "Elevated" traffic option,BT Wholesale will provide
a throughput level of at least 16Mbit/s for 90% of the busy 3 hour period.
For end-user accesses provided with services that will synchronise within the 5 to 15 Mbit/s range, the following applies:
- For End-User Accesses selecting the "Standard" traffic option, BT Wholesale will
provide a throughput level of at least 70% of the value of their BRAS profile for 90%
of the busy 3 hour period. - For End-User Accesses selecting the " Elevated " traffic option, BT Wholesale will
provide a throughput level of at least 80% of the value of their BRAS profile for 90%
of the busy 3 hour period.
The throughput measures defined above are subject to the end user's service achieving a downstream line speed greater than the throughput speed for the selected downstream traffic option
but same as with the similar guarantees when on adsl1/adsl2+ where the min was also very low, we just hope things dont get quite that bad.
I dont know what TTBusiness guarantees are.
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Edited Zen link
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Thank you all for your replies.
I was considering Zen (business, unlimited fibre 2 or unlimited fibre office), but after reading the last two replies I'm once again stuck. I look at Plusnet and see a bit of BT in it (despite the fact they're actually operating nothing like BT), but what mostly concerns me is the longer contract time vs Zen, implementation of traffic prioritisation and some comments I've read about possible congestion. And then I look at Zen, I see a company that seems to have no traffic prioritisation implemented, cheaper call rates on business line rental, though on the other hand I haven't found too much user feedback to know for sure whether or not the network has a good amount of spare capacity to not cause congestion issues during peak times. I imagine for both Zen and Plusnet that these problems don't really exist and I'm concerning myself over nothing.
The Traffic Management side of things, in my opinion is probably better. It's not about slowing people's connection down, it's about providing a service the same as any other ISP, but identifying the traffic that you're using and allowing us to ensure that the more important traffic is weighted in the right way.
We'd hate for a video you're watching to be constantly buffering whilst someone else in the office is trying to download a Linux Image, for example.
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Thank you all for your replies.
I was considering Zen (business, unlimited fibre 2 or unlimited fibre office), but after reading the last two replies I'm once again stuck. I look at Plusnet and see a bit of BT in it (despite the fact they're actually operating nothing like BT), but what mostly concerns me is the longer contract time vs Zen, implementation of traffic prioritisation and some comments I've read about possible congestion. And then I look at Zen, I see a company that seems to have no traffic prioritisation implemented, cheaper call rates on business line rental, though on the other hand I haven't found too much user feedback to know for sure whether or not the network has a good amount of spare capacity to not cause congestion issues during peak times. I imagine for both Zen and Plusnet that these problems don't really exist and I'm concerning myself over nothing.
The Traffic Management side of things, in my opinion is probably better. It's not about slowing people's connection down, it's about providing a service the same as any other ISP, but identifying the traffic that you're using and allowing us to ensure that the more important traffic is weighted in the right way.
We'd hate for a video you're watching to be constantly buffering whilst someone else in the office is trying to download a Linux Image, for example.
Good point. For a user who wants to have a connection that prioritises traffic in an expected way it's ideal. Unfortunately the long contract time is most likely still going to point me to joining Zen. Still, there's plenty of time for me to decide, I haven't received the migration authorisation code from BT Business yet and probably won't until Monday of next week based on what was said on the phone call with BT Business this morning. Thanks for the follow up.
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No problem.
Either way, I think you're in safe hands, Zen or Plusnet :)
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Just an update for those curious that the MAC still hasn't been issued by BT Business. I will chase this up with a phone call by 4pm if nothing shows up in my inbox.
If I don't receive the MAC today then I imagine it's overdue (requested lastweek on Monday, not long after 9am), in that case do I report this problem to Ofcom and let them sort it?
EDIT 07/07/2014 #1:
Called BT Business, was told to still expect it by the end of today, though I don't hold high hopes. Will update if I receive it (or not).
EDIT 08/07/2014 #1:
Unfortunately no email from BT Business with the MAC. I've sent an email to them stating that it's overdue, as well as pointing out I have a recording of the phone call earlier. Hopefully it'll get the ball rolling.
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Question: did you move this post to TBB forums? I don't want to double post if you did.
-Azz
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Question: did you move this post to TBB forums? I don't want to double post if you did.
-Azz
Nope. I haven't posted on there.
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No worries. Someone else is asking the exact same question:
http://forums.thinkbroadband.com/zen/t/4340422-zen-vs-plusnet.html
Hence I thought of you.
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A final follow up to say that I was successful in getting the MAC from BT this morning, with an apology for the fact it was overdue. Seems I got the ball rolling :). As far as I can tell it's a valid MAC for FTTC (starts with OGEA).
I will signup with Zen Internet shortly.
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Welcome aboard.
Any issues please do PM me.
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A final follow up to say that I was successful in getting the MAC from BT this morning, with an apology for the fact it was overdue. Seems I got the ball rolling :). As far as I can tell it's a valid MAC for FTTC (starts with OGEA).
I will signup with Zen Internet shortly.
How did it goes with Zen FTTC? Also can you post back BT Performance Test to see if Zen does have minimum speed range should be around 60Mbps instead of 40Mbps
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I helped a friend migrate to Zen last week and he got 61.84 Mbps on the BT Performance test.
I cant recall now what BTw estimated for his line but I think it was circa 60Mbps.
His only gripe was with the delivery firm Zen use to ship out their routers (Hermes).
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That has been fed back. :police:
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If I go to Zen Home FTTC 80/20 as BT Estimated I getting 77.7/20 and will I get guarantee minimum of 60Mbps speed on BTw test. As I am with Plusnet as I getting 74/18 with them but BTw show a minmum speed of range between 40Mbps and 77.42Mbps.
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I don't think you will ever get a guarantee that you will get a minimum of 60Mbps on the speedtest.
But I posted above for you the results of my friends btw performance test, as you can see he's getting more than 60Mbps with zen... Showing that it shouldn't be a problem...
After all it's the same bt system behind both zen and plusnet.
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A final follow up to say that I was successful in getting the MAC from BT this morning, with an apology for the fact it was overdue. Seems I got the ball rolling :). As far as I can tell it's a valid MAC for FTTC (starts with OGEA).
I will signup with Zen Internet shortly.
How did it goes with Zen FTTC? Also can you post back BT Performance Test to see if Zen does have minimum speed range should be around 60Mbps instead of 40Mbps
Apologies for the delayed reply.
Ordering process went fine, no issues at all. Was activated around 2am on the date that the they said it would activate on. Only problem I'm having is with BT Business, they emailed me to say that the old service would be ceased, and it wasn't. I ended up being charged a full month instead of getting a final bill as the email said. BT Business promise to refund me the partial amount that's due and say they've ceased it but it will take a few working days to process. To be on the safe side I've now cancelled all direct debits with BT, as I'm also with Zen for the voice service/line rental now. So, could well be a few weeks of chasing BT Business up for the partial refund I expect.
As for speed, although take up on the cabinet seems to have increased, therefore dropping my attainable, DLM has speed banded me on 74/20. Attached screenshot is my BT Wholesale result. I'm connected to an ECI cabinet using an unlocked ECI /r modem, I think around less than 300m away based on an attenuation calculation at 1MHz~ I did a while back (but don't hold me to that, I may be remembering wrong). All LAN cables are cat 6a, ASUS RT-AC68U and ASUS RT-N66U (one serves LAN IP's only, the other serves public IP's from the block I have with Zen), MK2 SSFP and ADSLNation 0.5m DSL cable. Suffice to say I've not been cheap on any bit of the network in the house ;).
BT Wholesale Results: http://i.imgur.com/wExyW5d.png (Downstream minimum range of 57.3Mbps corresponds correctly to my current downstream sync 74Mbps)
Speedtest.net Results: http://www.speedtest.net/result/3710576923.png (Eastbourne is the city that I'm in so I always usually run a speed test on that option on the map)
One last thing, the upload speed is slightly lower than usual (nearer 18Mbps normally) because I'm hosting some Team Fortress 2 servers here, and they're currently busy at the time of posting this message.