Kitz Forum

Broadband Related => Broadband Hardware => Topic started by: kitz on March 31, 2014, 04:14:45 PM

Title: ZyXel VMG8324-B10A Preliminary findings.
Post by: kitz on March 31, 2014, 04:14:45 PM
Admin note - Split topic to form its own thread

Ive just decided to take the bull by the horns and be guinea pig for the new ZyXEL VMG8324 (http://www.zyxel.com/uk/en/products_services/vmg8324_b10a.shtml?t=p) as its the first one thats ticked all the right boxes for me in the price range of circa 100.

It wont be with me until next week - as Im not in to take delivery over the next few days -  but no doubt I'll let everyone know how it goes.

Early stages yet as not fully configured and I had to update the firware to get a PPP authentication with my ISP...  and far too early to give a full review.  Theres lots of settings to play with, but thought Id post these

Huawei HG612

Quote
Uptime  132 days 13 hours 37 minutes 17 seconds

Attainable Rate:      3078457 kbps              86440 kbps
SNR Margin(dB)      7.7      13.1
Output Power (dBmV)   14.2      6.3
Line rate (kbit/s)   79999      20000


ZyXEL VMG8324

Quote
adsl info --pbParams
adsl: ADSL driver and PHY status
Status: Showtime
Last Retrain Reason:    0
Last initialization procedure status:   0
Max:    Upstream rate = 30854 Kbps, Downstream rate = 89753 Kbps
Bearer: 0, Upstream rate = 20000 Kbps, Downstream rate = 79987 Kbps

Discovery Phase (Initial) Band Plan
US: (6,31) (882,1193) (1984,2770)
DS: (33,857) (1218,1959) (2795,4083)
Medley Phase (Final) Band Plan
US: (6,31) (882,1193) (1984,2770)
DS: (41,857) (1218,1959) (2795,4083)
                  VDSL Port Details               Upstream                Downstream
Attainable Net Data Rate:           30854 kbps              89753 kbps
Actual Aggregate Tx Power:             5.6 dBm               14.3 dBm
====================================================================================
  VDSL Band Status   U0   U1   U2   U3   U4   D1   D2   D3
  Line Attenuation(dB):   0.6   17.5   26.7   N/A   N/A   10.7   23.4   36.9
Signal Attenuation(dB):   0.5   17.3   26.6   N/A   N/A   10.4   23.2   36.9
        SNR Margin(dB):   NR   15.2   13.1   12.5   N/A   N/A   8.4   8.4
         TX Power(dBm):   -6.1   -27.3   5.4   N/A   N/A   11.9   7.3   7.4

My downstream has slid slightly since I first connected, not much but since its now approaching tea-time its not unusual to see this.
Ive lost appx 1Mbps of  attainable upstream, but immediately gained 3.5 Mb downstream. 
Title: Re: ZyXel VMG8324-B10A
Post by: les-70 on April 01, 2014, 07:43:09 AM
  That looks very promising I must skim through a user manual to see what it can do.  I wondered if the firmware was more or less advanced than the latest BT HG612 update.  If you have a minute or two spare, please could you show what you get with the commands "xdslcmd --version" and "xdslcmd" on its own.  This would either by telnet directly or by using dslstats - advanced -custom commands. The commands will give the BCM firmware ID and the xdslcmd options.
Title: Re: ZyXel VMG8324-B10A
Post by: kitz on April 01, 2014, 10:05:02 AM
 > ?
Code: [Select]
?
help
logout
exit
quit
reboot
adsl
xdslctl
xtm
loglevel
logdest
virtualserver
ddns
dumpcfg
dumpmdm
meminfo
psp
dumpsysinfo
syslog
sntp
voice
ethwanctl
wlan
wlanctl
arp
defaultgateway
dhcpserver
dhcpcondserv
igmpcmd
dns
lan
lanhosts
passwd
ppp
pppoectl
firewall
dmz
snmpctl
restoredefault
route
save
swversion
uptime
cfgupdate
swupdate
exitOnIdle
wan
udpechod
tr69c
webstyle
radvdconf
vcautohunt
vlanautohunt
sys
save_default
captiveportal
celld
zyims_watchdog
wanaslan
tr064
wakeOnLan
snmp
phonetest
>

 > adsl
Code: [Select]
Usage: adsl start [--up] <configure command options>
       adsl stop
       adsl connection [--up] [--down] [--loopback] [--reverb]
           [--medley] [--noretrain] [--L3] [--diagmode] [--L0]
           [--tones <r1-r2,r3-r4,...>] [--normal] [--freezeReverb] [--freezeMedl
ey]
       adsl configure/configure1 [--mod <a|d|l|t|2|p|e|m|M3|M5|v>] [--lpair <(i)
nner|(o)uter>]
           [--trellis <on|off>] [--snr <snrQ4>] [--bitswap <on|off>] [--sesdrop
<on|off>]
           [--sra <on|off>] [--CoMinMgn <on|off>] [--i24k <on|off>] [--phyReXmt
<0xBitMap-UsDs>]
           [--Ginp <0xBitMap-UsDs>] [--TpsTc <0xBitMap-AvPvAaPa>] [--monitorTone
 <on|off>]
           [--profile <0x00 - 0xFF>|<"8a |8b |8c |8d |12a |12b |17a |30a">] [--u
s0 <on|off>]
           [--dynamicD <on|off>] [--dynamicF <on|off>] [--SOS <on|off>] [--maxDa
taRate <maxDsDataRateKbps maxUsDataRateKbps maxAggrDataRateKbps>]
           [--forceJ43 <on|off>] [--toggleJ43B43 <on|off>]
       adsl bert [--start <#seconds>] [--stop] [--show]
       adsl afelb [--time <sec>] [--tones] [--signal <1/2/8>]
       adsl qlnmntr [--time <sec>] [--freq <msec>]
       adsl inm [--start <INMIATO> <INMIATS><INMCC><INM_INPEQ_MODE><INM_INPEQ_FO
RMAT>] [--show]
       adsl snrclamp [--shape <shapeId>] [--bpshape [bpIndex-bpLevel,]]
       adsl nlnm [--show ] [--setThld <Thld_Num_Tones>]
       adsl diag [--logstart <nBytes>] [--logpause] [--logstop] [--loguntilbuffe
rfull <nBytes>] [--loguntilretrain <nBytes>]
       adsl info [--state] [--show] [--stats] [--SNR] [--QLN] [--Hlog] [--Hlin]
[--HlinS] [--Bits]
           [--pbParams] [--linediag] [--linediag1] [--reset] [--vendor] [--cfg]
[--webstats]
       adsl profile [--show] [--save] [--restore]
       adsl --version
       adsl --help


 > adsl --version
adsl version 1.0
ADSL PHY: AnnexA version - A2pv6F039g1.d24e
Title: Re: ZyXel VMG8324-B10A
Post by: kitz on April 01, 2014, 11:16:40 AM
>>> That looks very promising I must skim through a user manual to see what it can do.

That was going to be my bedtime reading last night, but I fell asleep before I even opened it  :-[

I had a hiccup yesterday as the default supplied firmware has a bug where you cant save the isp config details for the VDSL interface - kinda makes it hard to get a PPP session  :-X  Broadbandbuyer are now aware of this &  gave me a phone no for Zyxel support who emailed me various firmware updates to try.  Ive installed all 3, but the first one did the trick and sorted the problem with VDSL config.

So far Im pretty pleased with it.  As far as Im concerned the web interface is quite nice and very feature rich, but it may be over whelming for a more novice user especially some of the more advanced features.  Theres some nice touches in the GUI that I like.  The easy set-up failed for me, so a downside for a novice user is they will have to dig a bit deeper and I can imagine it putting some off trying to manually put all the settings in.    Having spoken to Zyxel support yesterday though, the distinct impression I got that they normally supply ISP specific firmware as he seemed surprised I'd bought it 'off the shelf' and not via an ISP. Basically I had to set up a new WAN interface for vdsl2...  I'll probably do a tutorial on the wiki or main site for vdsl config as even the current firmware isnt exactly novice friendly and requires some settings which even i thought 'huh whats that' or 'what do I put for this'.  Quick start doesnt work for vdsl.

My overall impression is they seem to have made most things available via the GUI but not dumbed it down.   I get the feel that they started off with good intentions of making it look nice, but quarter way through thought 'sod it - we'll just make everything available in plain text in a frame'.

Ive not done specific wireless tests but I had no problem last night streaming HD to the TV in the corner of the lounge   This particular location has been a dead-spot in the past with several wireless devices meaning I had to install about 20m of CAT5,  but it coped perfectly with a HD stream via wireless only.   If this continues I may be able to rip out the CAT5 when I next decorate as its a bit unsightly in a couple of places.

The config options are too numerous to mention and Ive not explored them all yet, but one of the things I noticed is allows up to 4 defined usergroups which you can set allowing difference levels of access on the LAN/wifi/WAN.  It also has the ability to specifically set parental control on particular devices using its MAC address to disallow specific sites or acess on at certain times of the day.

An example of what I mean with how the GUI looks quite smart at the start.... with some nice visuals - ie the connected devices and stats for CPU & memory usage - Those bars move in real time.
Title: Re: ZyXel VMG8324-B10A
Post by: kitz on April 01, 2014, 12:21:33 PM
bit of digging on the chipset

~ # cat /proc/cpuinfo
system type             : 963168VX
processor               : 0


Quote
The BCM63168 is the industry's first single-chip multi-mode ADSL2+/VDSL2 Integrated Access Device (IAD) SoC with an unprecedented level of integration, delivering triple play services throughout the home.

The BCM63168 xDSL IAD SoC integrates multi-mode ADSL2+/VDSL2, supporting 5-band channel bonding with 802.11n, DECT, VoIP and Ethernet Switching into a single chip. It combines Broadcom's DSL industry leadership and proven ability in designing complete ADSL2+/VDSL2 carrier access solutions to reduce overall system cost and power, and meet the growing demands for high-bandwidth triple play services. Additionally, it deploys a higher performing, remotely manageable and eCOC compliant solution. By combining the BCM63168 with the BCM4360 5G WiFi solution, Broadcom enables carriers to reliably deliver high quality HD video content concurrently to a variety of wireless devices such as tablets, smartphones, PCs and connected TVs throughout the home.


    Multi-mode xDSL transceiver with seamless fallback supporting 5-band channel bonding
    High performance 400MHz dual-core MIPS CPU with packet and Quality of Service offload for advanced routing and service provided applications
    Concurrent 802.11n wireless connectivity throughout the home
    Gigabit Ethernet Switching with integrated Ethernet PHYs and multiple RGMII ports for flexible expansion and connectivity
    Multi-channel HD-voice




http://www.broadcom.com/products/Broadband-Carrier-Access/xDSL-CPE-Solutions/BCM63168

Title: Re: ZyXel VMG8324-B10A
Post by: les-70 on April 01, 2014, 12:35:36 PM
It all sounds very interesting.  The firmware contains a more recent Broadcom Binary Large Object BLOB i.e. 039  c.f. 038 the latest in the BT hg612 update. 

   Please might you be able to extract the BLOB from the file system? 

   I tried and failed to extract anything from the zytel web site firmware.  The image there seemed very small though, just 1.3MB, did you get a larger firmware size than that from zytel?

  This is often very easy on routers with a usb.  If you plug in a usb memory you will  probably find it mounted in the file system and any file can then be copied to it.  In the Hg612 the file is in /etc/adsl and called adsl_phy.bin. If the usb approach fails then tftp will also allow it if (tftp) is present in the file system. If you could make that file available it will be possible to try dynamically swapping it into an HG612.  I am up to that, but so far building new firmware has proved too much for my linux skills. There are however others who seem good at that.
Title: Re: ZyXel VMG8324-B10A
Post by: kitz on April 01, 2014, 01:02:35 PM
I have 3 versions that Zyxel mailed me

100AAKL2C0_20131205.bin (21.3 MB)
V100AAKL3b2.bin (21.6 MB)
V100AAKL4b1.bin (21.8MB)

I have to go out now and I have an appt this eve but I shall certainly have a look later.


Title: Re: ZyXel VMG8324-B10A
Post by: burakkucat on April 01, 2014, 01:39:56 PM
Just reformatted the help output produced by the adsl command . . .

Code: [Select]
Usage: adsl start [--up] <configure command options>
       adsl stop
       adsl connection [--up] [--down] [--loopback] [--reverb]
           [--medley] [--noretrain] [--L3] [--diagmode] [--L0]
           [--tones <r1-r2,r3-r4,...>] [--normal] [--freezeReverb] [--freezeMedley]
       adsl configure/configure1 [--mod <a|d|l|t|2|p|e|m|M3|M5|v>] [--lpair <(i)nner|(o)uter>]
           [--trellis <on|off>] [--snr <snrQ4>] [--bitswap <on|off>] [--sesdrop <on|off>]
           [--sra <on|off>] [--CoMinMgn <on|off>] [--i24k <on|off>] [--phyReXmt <0xBitMap-UsDs>]
           [--Ginp <0xBitMap-UsDs>] [--TpsTc <0xBitMap-AvPvAaPa>] [--monitorTone <on|off>]
           [--profile <0x00 - 0xFF>|<"8a |8b |8c |8d |12a |12b |17a |30a">] [--us0 <on|off>]
           [--dynamicD <on|off>] [--dynamicF <on|off>] [--SOS <on|off>] [--maxDataRate <maxDsDataRateKbps maxUsDataRateKbps maxAggrDataRateKbps>]
           [--forceJ43 <on|off>] [--toggleJ43B43 <on|off>]
       adsl bert [--start <#seconds>] [--stop] [--show]
       adsl afelb [--time <sec>] [--tones] [--signal <1/2/8>]
       adsl qlnmntr [--time <sec>] [--freq <msec>]
       adsl inm [--start <INMIATO> <INMIATS><INMCC><INM_INPEQ_MODE><INM_INPEQ_FORMAT>] [--show]
       adsl snrclamp [--shape <shapeId>] [--bpshape [bpIndex-bpLevel,]]
       adsl nlnm [--show ] [--setThld <Thld_Num_Tones>]
       adsl diag [--logstart <nBytes>] [--logpause] [--logstop] [--loguntilbufferfull <nBytes>] [--loguntilretrain <nBytes>]
       adsl info [--state] [--show] [--stats] [--SNR] [--QLN] [--Hlog] [--Hlin] [--HlinS] [--Bits]
           [--pbParams] [--linediag] [--linediag1] [--reset] [--vendor] [--cfg] [--webstats]
       adsl profile [--show] [--save] [--restore]
       adsl --version
       adsl --help
Title: Re: ZyXel VMG8324-B10A
Post by: les-70 on April 01, 2014, 04:37:29 PM
    I have found some correct full size firmwares on the zytel web site. The site is confusing (for me at least) as with a search it show firmwares for more than the specified device.   I have however failed to extract the file system with "firmware mod kit" fmk, an "unsupported file system jffs2"  message is shown. I have found that, as advertised, fmk works for some firmwares but not for others.
Title: Re: ZyXel VMG8324-B10A
Post by: Bald_Eagle1 on April 01, 2014, 07:21:17 PM
Hi kitz,

Early stages yet as not fully configured and I had to update the firware to get a PPP authentication with my ISP...  and far too early to give a full review.  Theres lots of settings to play with, but thought Id post these

ZyXEL VMG8324

Quote
adsl info --pbParams
adsl: ADSL driver and PHY status
Status: Showtime
Last Retrain Reason:    0
Last initialization procedure status:   0
Max:    Upstream rate = 30854 Kbps, Downstream rate = 89753 Kbps
Bearer: 0, Upstream rate = 20000 Kbps, Downstream rate = 79987 Kbps

Discovery Phase (Initial) Band Plan
US: (6,31) (882,1193) (1984,2770)
DS: (33,857) (1218,1959) (2795,4083)
Medley Phase (Final) Band Plan
US: (6,31) (882,1193) (1984,2770)
DS: (41,857) (1218,1959) (2795,4083)
                  VDSL Port Details               Upstream                Downstream
Attainable Net Data Rate:           30854 kbps              89753 kbps
Actual Aggregate Tx Power:             5.6 dBm               14.3 dBm
====================================================================================
  VDSL Band Status   U0   U1   U2   U3   U4   D1   D2   D3
  Line Attenuation(dB):   0.6   17.5   26.7   N/A   N/A   10.7   23.4   36.9
Signal Attenuation(dB):   0.5   17.3   26.6   N/A   N/A   10.4   23.2   36.9
        SNR Margin(dB):   NR   15.2   13.1   12.5   N/A   N/A   8.4   8.4
         TX Power(dBm):   -6.1   -27.3   5.4   N/A   N/A   11.9   7.3   7.4



The stats you have posted do look very similar to the format used by the HG612 etc.

At first glance, it appears that with a little bit of work I could adapt my HG612 programs to produce snapshot graphs & monitor/graph ongoing stats etc.


Whenever you have a minute or two to spare, would you mind collecting the output from these commands & emailing them to me (file sizes would be too large to post in the forum):-

adsl info --stats 
adsl info --pbParams
adsl info --Bits
adsl info --linediag
adsl info --show
adsl --version


Ideally, all the output would be nice in a single file.
Alternatively, I could work with separate files for the output of each command.

Title: Re: ZyXel VMG8324-B10A
Post by: Blackeagle on April 01, 2014, 07:41:17 PM
    I have found some correct full size firmwares on the zytel web site. The site is confusing (for me at least) as with a search it show firmwares for more than the specified device.   I have however failed to extract the file system with "firmware mod kit" fmk, an "unsupported file system jffs2"  message is shown. I have found that, as advertised, fmk works for some firmwares but not for others.

Think you should be able to mount it by 'faking' a flash device.  See here (http://bramp.net/blog/2012/01/24/hacking-linksys-e4200v2-firmware/) for instance.
Title: Re: ZyXel VMG8324-B10A
Post by: kitz on April 02, 2014, 05:36:05 PM
The stats you have posted do look very similar to the format used by the HG612 etc.

Whenever you have a minute or two to spare, would you mind collecting the output from these commands & emailing them to me (file sizes would be too large to post in the forum):-

adsl info --stats 
adsl info --pbParams
adsl info --Bits
adsl info --linediag
adsl info --show
adsl --version

Ideally, all the output would be nice in a single file.


Thanks - you haz mail.
Title: Re: ZyXel VMG8324-B10A
Post by: kitz on April 02, 2014, 05:50:50 PM
    I have found some correct full size firmwares on the zytel web site. The site is confusing (for me at least) as with a search it show firmwares for more than the specified device.   I have however failed to extract the file system with "firmware mod kit" fmk, an "unsupported file system jffs2"  message is shown. I have found that, as advertised, fmk works for some firmwares but not for others.

I think I may need some hand holding here...  or at least some pointers. 
Im not familiar with linux commands and cant seem to find what I should be doing.

I also have to be quick, as despite trying to set idletimeout, this doesnt appear to have any effect when in busybox.
This is all the info I have atm which only confirms the location.

Code: [Select]
VMG8324-B10A
Login: admin
Password:

> exitOnIdle set 9999
timeout is set to 9999 seconds (for this session only, not saved to config)


> echo && bash

~ # ls -l /
drwxr-xr-x    2 supervis root             0 Mar 12 07:43 bin
drwxr-xr-x    6 supervis root             0 Jan  1  1970 data
drwxr-xr-x    5 supervis root             0 Mar 12 07:43 dev
drwxr-xr-x   13 supervis root             0 Mar 10 03:33 etc
drwxr-xr-x    2 supervis root             0 Jan  1  1970 home
drwxr-xr-x    6 supervis root             0 Mar 12 07:40 lib
lrwxrwxrwx    1 supervis root            11 Mar 12 07:43 linuxrc -> bin/busybox
drwxr-xr-x    2 supervis root             0 Jan  1  1970 log
drwxr-xr-x    3 supervis root             0 Apr  2 15:39 mnt
drwxr-xr-x    5 supervis root             0 Mar 12 07:43 opt
dr-xr-xr-x  123 supervis root             0 Jan  1  1970 proc
drwxr-xr-x    2 supervis root             0 Mar 12 07:42 sbin
drwxr-xr-x   11 supervis root             0 Jan  1  1970 sys
lrwxrwxrwx    1 supervis root             8 Mar 12 07:43 tmp -> /var/tmp
drwxr-xr-x    4 supervis root             0 Mar 12 07:40 usr
drwxr-xr-x   17 supervis root             0 Apr  2 16:06 var
-rw-r--r--    1 supervis root       1431712 Mar 12 07:43 vmlinux.lz
drwxr-xr-x    4 supervis root             0 Mar 10 06:04 webs


~ # ls -l /etc/
-rwxr-xr-x    1 supervis root           319 Mar 10 03:33 KeepAlive.sh
drwxr-xr-x    2 supervis root             0 Mar 10 05:44 adsl
-rw-r--r--    1 supervis root           499 Mar 10 03:33 arl
drwxr-xr-x    3 supervis root             0 Mar 10 06:06 certs
-rwxr-xr-x    1 supervis root         78259 Mar 12 07:43 default.cfg
drwxr-xr-x    2 supervis root             0 Mar 10 03:33 dhcp
-rw-r--r--    1 supervis root           185 Mar 10 03:33 dhcp6c.conf.sample
-rw-r--r--    1 supervis root           256 Mar 10 03:33 dhcp6s.conf.sample
lrwxrwxrwx    1 supervis root            13 Mar 12 07:43 dms.conf -> /var/dms.conf
lrwxrwxrwx    1 supervis root            25 Mar 12 07:43 dnsmasq.conf -> /var/dnsmasq/dnsmasq.conf
-rwxr-xr-x    1 supervis root           489 Mar 10 03:33 dyndscp.sh
-rw-r--r--    1 supervis root          1317 Mar 10 05:58 ethertypes
-rw-r--r--    1 supervis root            10 Mar 10 03:33 filesystems
-r-xr-xr-x    1 supervis root           220 Mar 12 07:43 fstab
-rwxr-xr-x    1 supervis root         17868 Mar 12 05:34 fw_wwanpackage
lrwxrwxrwx    1 supervis root            20 Mar 12 07:43 gateway.conf -> /var/fyi/sys/gateway
lrwxrwxrwx    1 supervis root            10 Mar 12 07:43 group -> /var/group
lrwxrwxrwx    1 supervis root            10 Mar 12 07:43 hosts -> /var/hosts
-rw-r--r--    1 supervis root            25 Mar 12 07:43 image_version
-rwxr-xr-x    1 supervis root           486 Mar 10 03:33 inetd.conf
drwxr-xr-x    2 supervis root             0 Mar 10 03:33 init.d
-rwxr-xr-x    1 supervis root           178 Mar 10 03:33 inittab
drwxr-xr-x    2 supervis root             0 Mar 12 07:43 iproute2
lrwxrwxrwx    1 supervis root            21 Mar 12 07:43 ipsec.conf -> /var/ipsec/ipsec.conf
-rw-r--r--    1 supervis root           586 Mar 10 03:33 ipv6_start.sample
-rw-r--r--    1 supervis root           412 Mar 10 03:33 mdev.conf
-rwxr-xr-x    1 supervis root            20 Mar 10 03:33 mdk
-rwxr-xr-x    1 supervis root           131 Mar 10 03:33 modules_install
lrwxrwxrwx    1 supervis root             9 Mar 12 07:43 mtab -> /var/mtab
lrwxrwxrwx    1 supervis root            11 Mar 12 07:43 passwd -> /var/passwd
drwxr-xr-x    2 supervis root             0 Mar 10 03:33 ppp
lrwxrwxrwx    1 supervis root            15 Mar 12 07:43 pppmsg -> /var/ppp/pppmsg
-rwxr-xr-x    1 supervis root         14241 Mar 12 07:43 profile
lrwxrwxrwx    1 supervis root            18 Mar 12 07:43 psk.txt -> /var/ipsec/psk.txt
drwxr-xr-x    2 supervis root             0 Mar 10 03:33 pwdog
drwxr-xr-x    3 supervis root             0 Mar 10 06:06 racoon
lrwxrwxrwx    1 supervis root            22 Mar 12 07:43 racoon.conf -> /var/ipsec/racoon.conf
-rw-r--r--    1 supervis root          1871 Mar 10 03:33 radvd.conf.sample
lrwxrwxrwx    1 supervis root            16 Mar 12 07:43 resolv.conf -> /var/fyi/sys/dns
lrwxrwxrwx    1 supervis root            24 Mar 12 07:43 resolv.dnsmasq.conf -> /var/dnsmasq/dnsmasq.dns
-rw-r--r--    1 supervis root           427 Mar 10 03:33 rsa_host_key
lrwxrwxrwx    1 supervis root            10 Mar 12 07:43 samba -> /var/samba
-rwxr-xr-x    1 supervis root          5685 Mar 10 03:33 services
-r--r--r--    1 supervis root          1682 Mar 12 07:40 smb.conf
-r--r--r--    1 supervis root           475 Mar 12 07:40 smb.passwd
-rwxr-xr-x    1 supervis root         78259 Mar 12 07:43 smt.cfg
drwxr-xr-x    2 supervis root             0 Mar 10 05:39 snmp
-rw-r--r--    1 supervis root           555 Mar 10 03:33 soft_bridge
drwxr-xr-x    2 supervis root             0 Mar 12 07:40 sysconfig
lrwxrwxrwx    1 supervis root            11 Mar 12 07:43 sysmsg -> /var/sysmsg
lrwxrwxrwx    1 supervis root            23 Mar 12 07:43 udhcpd.conf -> /var/udhcpd/udhcpd.conf
lrwxrwxrwx    1 supervis root            25 Mar 12 07:43 udhcpd.leases -> /var/udhcpd/udhcpd.leases
-rw-r--r--    1 supervis root           273 Mar 10 03:33 vlan
drwxr-xr-x    2 supervis root             0 Mar 12 07:41 wlan
-rw-r--r--    1 supervis root           432 Mar 12 07:40 wpa_supplicant.conf
-r--r--r--    1 supervis root          7358 Mar 12 07:41 wrt54g.large.ico
-r--r--r--    1 supervis root          3262 Mar 12 07:41 wrt54g.small.ico
-rwxr-xr-x    1 supervis root           651 Mar 10 03:33 zyusbinit.sh



~ # ls -l /etc/adsl/
-rw-r--r--    1 supervis root        994476 Mar 10 05:44 adsl_phy.bin
~ # telnetd:error:337.258:prctl_runCommandInShellWithTimeout:174:prctl_collect f
ailed, ret=9809
 >

 
Title: Re: ZyXel VMG8324-B10A Preliminary findings.
Post by: Blackeagle on April 02, 2014, 06:45:56 PM
As a test, I have extracted the adsl_phy.bin BLOB from f/w downloaded from  the ZyXel site.  The firmware in question was VMG8324-B10A_100AAKL0C0.zip

The firmware can be extracted using a tool called jffs2dump from the package mtd-utils[1]. I actually didn't extract it that way, and used dd, but then I needed the tool to reverse the endian-ness of the file.  This file was then mounted by creating a fake flash device using the following commands.
Code: [Select]
sudo modprobe mtdram total_size=32768 erase_size=256
sudo modprobe mtdblock
sudo modprobe mtdchar
sudo mknod /dev/mtdblock0 b 31 0   (not needed if /dev/mtdblock0 exists already)
sudo dd if=image.jffs2 of=/dev/mtdblock0

The file was then finally mounted using a previously created directory with
Code: [Select]
sudo mount -t jffs2 /dev/mtdblock0 /mnt/disk
It then becomes trivial to navigate to any directory on the mounted image.

[1] https://packages.debian.org/squeeze/mtd-utils
Title: Re: ZyXel VMG8324-B10A Preliminary findings.
Post by: les-70 on April 02, 2014, 07:18:14 PM
  Well done. Is there any chance of putting that file online or emailing it to me with a pm? Many thanks if you can. 
Title: Re: ZyXel VMG8324-B10A Preliminary findings.
Post by: burakkucat on April 02, 2014, 07:20:44 PM
I think kitz just needs a little help . . .

At the busybox shell prompt:
Title: Re: ZyXel VMG8324-B10A Preliminary findings.
Post by: Blackeagle on April 02, 2014, 07:29:11 PM
  Well done. Is there any chance of putting that file online or emailing it to me with a pm? Many thanks if you can.

Certainly, although the file size is different to the one in kitz post, and I therefore assume that to likely be a more up to date version.  Filesize I have is 945,564 bytes vs 994,476 bytes in kitz post.

b*cat has given suitable instructions for extraction of that BLOB.
Title: Re: ZyXel VMG8324-B10A Preliminary findings.
Post by: kitz on April 02, 2014, 07:34:56 PM
Quote
The firmware in question was VMG8324-B10A_100AAKL0C0.zip. 

The firmware I currently have installed is Current Firmware Version: 1.00(AAKL.4)b1 which is V100AAKL4b1.bin
I was told to replace the shipped firmware with these three in the following order as one of them contained a major update.

100AAKL2C0_20131205.bin (21.3 MB)
V100AAKL3b2.bin (21.6 MB)
V100AAKL4b1.bin (21.8MB)

Im unsure which version actually introduced the new '039' BLOB, but if any one wants Im happy to send V100AAKL4b1.bin
Title: Re: ZyXel VMG8324-B10A Preliminary findings.
Post by: kitz on April 02, 2014, 07:37:40 PM
I think kitz just needs a little help . . .

At the busybox shell prompt:
  • enter a "mount" command and see the current status of the mount table
  • plug in an appropriately formatted memory stick/thumb drive into a USB port
  • enter a "mount" command and look at the new entry in the mount table
  • assuming that the above now shows that "/dev/sda" is now mounted as "/mnt/usb1_1", "/dev/sda" is the memorystick/thumb drive and "/mnt/usb1_1" is the mount point
  • now copy the adsl_phy.bin file to the mount point . . . using the above example "cp /etc/adsl/adsl_phys.bin /mnt/usb1_1/"
  • unmount the memory stick/thumb drive . . . using the above example "umount /dev/sda" (Note "umount" not "unmount".)
  • all being well, you now should have a copy of the Broadcom driver on the memory stick/thumb drive

Thank you..   I shall try that after Ive cooked &  eaten.   BBL
Title: Re: ZyXel VMG8324-B10A Preliminary findings.
Post by: Blackeagle on April 02, 2014, 09:20:28 PM
Put the file I extracted in a hex editor and did a search for broadcom and found a version string and date.

Broadcom DSL Version A2pv6F038f2, Built on 10/10/2012 15:59:54, as against the version on my HG612 A2pv6C038m.d24j.

Fully expect kitz to pull off a much later version.
Title: Re: ZyXel VMG8324-B10A Preliminary findings.
Post by: kitz on April 03, 2014, 12:16:08 AM
Im sorry, I fully expected to attempt this tonight...  but a help phone call from a friend meant I didnt manage to get to sit down and eat till 11pm.   I was sat replying to site emails whilst eating and I still have another 141 site mails (not spam) to filter through - still not caught up on since my PC was out of action..  and Ive still got lots of threads to read on the forum.  Apologies if I didnt ansa mail or PMs - I know there's several still outstanding.  :(

I had also intended on being in bed before midnight as I have to be up early tomorrow and not back till late, and dont want to fall asleep in class again - yep I really did cause I was so tired -  so I will have to put this on hold until the weekend now.   
Title: Re: ZyXel VMG8324-B10A Preliminary findings.
Post by: kitz on April 03, 2014, 02:07:24 AM
OK..  in hypermode with things to do and not going to sleep now - boy am I going to suffer tomorrow  :D

After more attempts than I want to admit, I think Ive finally got it.  :fingers:  That damn time out was doing my head in if I paused for 5 seconds.   :baby:


I will pass it on to b'cat, les70, blackeagle & dmcdonnell whom are those that I think may need it.
Thank you bcat for your help with the commands.


For my own notes in case I have to do it again
/dev/sda1 on /mnt/usb1_1

 > echo && bash
~ # mount
~ # cp /etc/adsl/adsl_phy.bin /mnt/usb1_1/
~ # umount /dev/sda1

Title: Re: ZyXel VMG8324-B10A Preliminary findings.
Post by: kitz on April 03, 2014, 02:23:23 AM
PS   Just to correct something.  It was questioned tonight that I may be unhappy with this router, when I was trying to give a neutral response as I really havent had chance yet to see what its capable of, and I'd hate to say its great & the next day find something really annoying about it.

But so far I'd like to say, that aside from the config issues which Im hoping to report back to ZyXel on..  Im actually quite pleased.   Its very smart and a very good replacement combined unit for the HG612, TG582n and GigEswitch. 
My stats are better than on the HG612 and so far everything works ok.  I will say more when I get time to explore and RTFM.
The only downside is that its not n00b friendly, but if I can get a config tutorial done, then this should help anyone trying to set it up for vdsl.

and now I am off to bed.... laters......
Title: Re: ZyXel VMG8324-B10A Preliminary findings.
Post by: les-70 on April 03, 2014, 07:59:36 AM
  I tried the new Binary object but, on first try, it did not sync when started after the swap  :( .  I noticed that the putty log has a few odd characters in it that I did not see of the screen so I will try later. The modem was connected the whole time so next time I will try with the line disconnected.  Below are the commands that I used, but as I said they did not lead to a working modem.  Hopefully others will have more luck.

 Set tftp server running on 192.168.0.63 with new  adsl_phy.bin
  then login

# cp -ar  /etc /tmp
# cd /tmp/etc/adsl
# ls
adsl_phy.bin
# rm adsl_phy.bin
# tftp -g -r adsl_phy.bin  192.168.0.63
# ls
adsl_phy.bin
# mount -o bind /tmp/etc /etc
# xdslcmd stop
# xdslcmd start --up
# xdslcmd --version
xdslcmd version 1.0
DSL PHY: AnnexA version - A2pv6F039g1.d24j
******* Pass *********
# xdslcmd info
xdslcmd: ADSL driver and PHY status
Status: Idle
Retrain Reason:   0
Last initialization procedure status:   0
Title: Re: ZyXel VMG8324-B10A Preliminary findings.
Post by: Bald_Eagle1 on April 03, 2014, 08:40:25 AM
So it appears that either "adsl" or "xdslcmd" prefixes can be used for the stats commands (unless one firmware version uses "adsl" & the other needs "xdslcmd").

Kitz's version:-

adsl --version
adsl version 1.0
ADSL PHY: AnnexA version - A2pv6F039g1.d24e


Les-70's version:-

xdslcmd --version
xdslcmd version 1.0
DSL PHY: AnnexA version - A2pv6F039g1.d24j


Looking at a full set of relevant data from Kitz's live connection, the output from "adsl" commands seems to have all tab spaces stripped out, being replaced by a relevant number of spaces.

Does the format of the data obtained via "xdslcmd" commands also include all spaces or a combination of tabs & spaces?

e.g. xdslcmd info --stats
 
Title: Re: ZyXel VMG8324-B10A Preliminary findings.
Post by: les-70 on April 03, 2014, 09:18:10 AM
 Bit confused here. The les version is swapped into an HG612 hence trying to use xdslcmd.  Kitz probably does not have anything called xdslcmd in the zytel.   The fact that they are different may be why, on first try, I have not got it working in an HG612
Title: Re: ZyXel VMG8324-B10A Preliminary findings.
Post by: roseway on April 03, 2014, 10:18:31 AM
Quote
So it appears that either "adsl" or "xdslcmd" prefixes can be used for the stats commands (unless one firmware version uses "adsl" & the other needs "xdslcmd").

Some modem/routers provide a number of alternative command prefixes which do the same thing. The Billion 7800DXL, for example, has 'adsl', 'adslctl' and 'xdslctl', the first two of which are just links pointing at the third.
Title: Re: ZyXel VMG8324-B10A Preliminary findings.
Post by: les-70 on April 03, 2014, 10:35:37 AM
  I had a second try at swapping the the adsl_phy.bin file to the 039 version but it still would not sync.  First I tested stopping and starting things with the default 038 version and then did both

     xdslcmd stop     which does not seem to loose sync and
     xdslcmd connection --down      which does loose sync
   
     I then swapped as before and then tried

     xdslcmd start     followed by
     xdslcmd connection --up   which failed to start, previously before the swap it worked and started the sync. 

It is disappointing as the xdslcmd commands otherwise all seem to work.  snr qln etc are reported but I would need to try another test with a disconnected power up to prove that they were not values remembered from the 038 sync.    I hope others have more luck or can use asbo's HG612  tool kit to try proper insertion.  When I tried to swap the 038 file into a modem running 035 firmware the swap caused an seg fault error when you tried to start xdslcmd. The 033 and 030 file swapped into the 035 firmware and run successfully though.   This time it looks more promising as no errors are reported but.........
Title: Re: ZyXel VMG8324-B10A
Post by: dmcdonnell on April 03, 2014, 10:50:47 AM
I have 3 versions that Zyxel mailed me

100AAKL2C0_20131205.bin (21.3 MB)
V100AAKL3b2.bin (21.6 MB)
V100AAKL4b1.bin (21.8MB)

I have to go out now and I have an appt this eve but I shall certainly have a look later.

I wonder if you can post these .bin files, please?
Title: Re: ZyXel VMG8324-B10A Preliminary findings.
Post by: dmcdonnell on April 03, 2014, 10:56:53 AM
As a test, I have extracted the adsl_phy.bin BLOB from f/w downloaded from  the ZyXel site.  The firmware in question was VMG8324-B10A_100AAKL0C0.zip

The firmware can be extracted using a tool called jffs2dump from the package mtd-utils[1]. I actually didn't extract it that way, and used dd, but then I needed the tool to reverse the endian-ness of the file.  This file was then mounted by creating a fake flash device using the following commands.

Question: When working with these ZyXel firmwares, and extracted files, is it only firmware blobs that require their endianess changed?

TIA
Title: Re: ZyXel VMG8324-B10A Preliminary findings.
Post by: Blackeagle on April 03, 2014, 11:24:37 AM
Yes.  The firmware is big endian but must be converted to little endian to be mounted.  What I did was to use binwalk to find the offset in the file for the jjfs2 filesystem, then used dd to copy from there.
Code: [Select]
dd bs=1 skip=131072 if=V100AAKL4b1.bin of=kitz1.bin
I then reversed the endian
Code: [Select]
jffs2dump --bigendian kitz1.bin --endianconvert=kitz1.jffs2

Then dd to /dev/mtdblock0, and finally mount that to a suitable point.


@les-70

I'm wondering if the blob is not starting correctly, possibly due in part to differences between the xdslcmd and xdslctl binaries.  Also the HG612 loads libxdslapi.so whereas the ZyXel loads libxdslctl.so

My thinking is that there is possibly some mapping issue between the xdsl*** binaries and the actual adsl_phy.bin driver.  There is no issue actually loading the driver, just starting it seems to be problematic !!


*** EDIT ***

Further investigation reveals that the VMG8324-B10A is based upon Broadcoms BCM63168 vs the HG612 BCM6368 chipset.

I should have noticed this earlier  :-[  I will happily stand corrected on this but I can't see that extracted BLOB working on a different chipset.  I believe the current latest BLOB in use on the Huawei was extracted from firmware for a Netgear DGND3700v1 which is 6368 based also.
Title: Re: ZyXel VMG8324-B10A Preliminary findings.
Post by: les-70 on April 03, 2014, 02:58:40 PM
I should have noticed this earlier  :-[ 

    Oops  ...  your not alone  :-[

   Given that I am very surprised the adsl_phy.bin swap did not cause an real failure.
Title: Re: ZyXel VMG8324-B10A Preliminary findings.
Post by: dmcdonnell on April 03, 2014, 04:54:02 PM
I did wonder about the blob hunt.

There are a few modem/routers about with the BCM63168 SoC and you can find different boot logs posted. No sign of OpenWRT but it's early days.
There is early support in OpenWRT for the related BCM63138 SoC, which cant be bad news.
See http://pastebin.com/Ex23Mmz8

Thank you so much for the lessons in endianess and firmware extraction, Blackeagle. Greatly appreciated.
Title: Re: ZyXel VMG8324-B10A Preliminary findings.
Post by: Blackeagle on April 03, 2014, 06:12:29 PM

Thank you so much for the lessons in endianess and firmware extraction, Blackeagle. Greatly appreciated.

Just passing on stuff I learnt on here from others.
Title: Re: ZyXel VMG8324-B10A Preliminary findings.
Post by: Bald_Eagle1 on April 03, 2014, 06:44:44 PM
Bit confused here. The les version is swapped into an HG612 hence trying to use xdslcmd.  Kitz probably does not have anything called xdslcmd in the zytel.   The fact that they are different may be why, on first try, I have not got it working in an HG612

Apologies for the confusion.
I hadn't picked up on the fact you were using a HG612  :-[
Title: Re: ZyXel VMG8324-B10A Preliminary findings.
Post by: kitz on April 04, 2014, 09:18:50 AM
Quote
Further investigation reveals that the VMG8324-B10A is based upon Broadcoms BCM63168 vs the HG612 BCM6368 chipset.

I did wonder especially as I'd quoted the chipset..  but since I know nothing when it comes to firmware and blobs so I just thought perhaps it was similar to how the same drivers can cover multiple hardware versions.

No it doesnt support xdslcmd, which is why I'd had to use  adsl --version to get the fw details .  Theres a list of the available commands here (http://forum.kitz.co.uk/index.php?topic=13769.msg259367#msg259367) if it helps.
Title: Re: ZyXel VMG8324-B10A Preliminary findings.
Post by: dmcdonnell on April 04, 2014, 11:03:21 AM
...
Code: [Select]
sudo modprobe mtdram total_size=32768 erase_size=256
sudo modprobe mtdblock
sudo modprobe mtdchar
sudo mknod /dev/mtdblock0 b 31 0   (not needed if /dev/mtdblock0 exists already)
sudo dd if=image.jffs2 of=/dev/mtdblock0

Strangely, "sudo modprobe mtdchar" produces "FATAL: Module mtdchar not found." on my linux mint box. I am using recently released kernel 3.14 generic. I do have mtd-utils installed.
Title: Re: ZyXel VMG8324-B10A Preliminary findings.
Post by: les-70 on April 04, 2014, 01:10:02 PM
 @kitz   Returning the topic of the thread I am looking forwards to hearing about your experiences in the long run.   I will be especially interested in the wireless performance a few walls and rooms away from the router and the wireless connection stability there.   My experience with internal antenna routers so far has not been good and has lead to them going into my bits cupboard!

    I notice HG630's with the same 63168 chipset and vectoring, only Huawei branded and fully unlocked on Taobao and also isp branded HG658's all at low prices - of order 40 inc pp if imported through an agent.  I have found importing works OK and am tempted to try one those (unlocked HG630 being safest) as (gigabit) does not worry me but with the zytel there is at least the prospect of later firmware updates.
Title: Re: ZyXel VMG8324-B10A Preliminary findings.
Post by: burakkucat on April 04, 2014, 04:39:44 PM
Strangely, "sudo modprobe mtdchar" produces "FATAL: Module mtdchar not found." on my linux mint box. I am using recently released kernel 3.14 generic. I do have mtd-utils installed.

Briefly (as not wishing to prolong the hijack of this thread), the mtdchar module does not exist in recent 3.X Linux kernels.  :no:  For example --

Code: [Select]
[Duo2 ~]$ find /lib/modules -type f | grep -E 'mtdblock|mtdchar' | sort
/lib/modules/2.6.32-431.11.2.el6.x86_64/kernel/drivers/mtd/mtdblock.ko
/lib/modules/2.6.32-431.11.2.el6.x86_64/kernel/drivers/mtd/mtdblock_ro.ko
/lib/modules/2.6.32-431.11.2.el6.x86_64/kernel/drivers/mtd/mtdchar.ko
/lib/modules/3.10.36-1.el6.elrepo.x86_64/kernel/drivers/mtd/mtdblock.ko
/lib/modules/3.10.36-1.el6.elrepo.x86_64/kernel/drivers/mtd/mtdblock_ro.ko
/lib/modules/3.14.0-1.el6.elrepo.x86_64/kernel/drivers/mtd/mtdblock.ko
/lib/modules/3.14.0-1.el6.elrepo.x86_64/kernel/drivers/mtd/mtdblock_ro.ko
[Duo2 ~]$
Title: Re: ZyXel VMG8324-B10A Preliminary findings.
Post by: Bald_Eagle1 on April 04, 2014, 07:38:46 PM
No it doesnt support xdslcmd, which is why I'd had to use  adsl --version to get the fw details .  Theres a list of the available commands here (http://forum.kitz.co.uk/index.php?topic=13769.msg259367#msg259367) if it helps.


It's taken a while to amend the graphing code, ensuring compatibility for the HG612 remans, but I have attached the snapshot montage from your connection's data that you provided.

If you are happy to test things out, I'll have a dabble with amending my data harvesting code to use in conjunction with DSLStats for easy shorter term & longer term monitoring.

Title: Re: ZyXel VMG8324-B10A Preliminary findings.
Post by: les-70 on April 05, 2014, 12:00:38 PM
@kitz   Returning the topic of the thread I am looking forwards to hearing about your experiences in the long run.   I will be especially interested in the wireless performance a few walls and rooms away from the router and the wireless connection stability there.   My experience with internal antenna routers so far has not been good and has lead to them going into my bits cupboard!

  @kitz  Any chance of an update?
Title: Re: ZyXel VMG8324-B10A Preliminary findings.
Post by: kitz on April 05, 2014, 06:35:39 PM

It's taken a while to amend the graphing code, ensuring compatibility for the HG612 remans, but I have attached the snapshot montage from your connection's data that you provided.

If you are happy to test things out, I'll have a dabble with amending my data harvesting code to use in conjunction with DSLStats for easy shorter term & longer term monitoring.

Yes please, that would be brilliant.  :)
Title: Re: ZyXel VMG8324-B10A Preliminary findings.
Post by: kitz on April 05, 2014, 06:51:30 PM

  @kitz  Any chance of an update?

No sorry - havent had chance and Ive been running around like the proverbal **  for the past few days and not even found time to read much past page 15 on the 500 412 page manual.  The Zyxel still has its protective sleeve on the front and its not yet in its proper location.    :(

But I can say that it worked well in what can be a deadspot.  Ideally Id like to test it down the bottom of my garden as that will for me be a good indication, but Im not going out in the pouring rain to do it  :D   Its current location is on the desk, upstairs front of house and I have no problem using it in the back of the house downstairs.

Ive not noticed any problems with it, its remained in sync since I put it on.  It recovered by itself after some ISP network problems.   Now that its set up... it just kinda works how it should and since the stats are slightly better than with the HG612 Im definitely not complaining.     
Title: Re: ZyXel VMG8324-B10A Preliminary findings.
Post by: les-70 on April 05, 2014, 07:50:13 PM
   I am very tempted and wondering over http://www.stuff-uk.net/p-1726433.aspx which curiously has the same stock level as broadband buyer.  The cheapest can prove troublesome in the end so I wonder it others have used stuff-uk ? - its not an appealing name.
Title: Re: ZyXel VMG8324-B10A Preliminary findings.
Post by: renluop on April 06, 2014, 07:39:36 AM
   ..... stuff-uk ? - its not an appealing name.
Likely it's better than stuff-u! :D
Title: Re: ZyXel VMG8324-B10A Preliminary findings.
Post by: kitz on April 06, 2014, 12:38:21 PM
No Ive not used stuffuk b4 :D  Not heard of it in fact.

I think the reason I went with broadbandbuyer is I was promised if it didnt come up to scratch I could return it.  I had 7 days to do this, but after speaking with them last week re the f/w issue not saving the vdsl config, I could have a bit longer to make up my mind. But thats neither here nor there now, as once I'd sorted it with ZyXel direct Ive decided its definitely a keeper for me. 

----

Ive just done some quick wi-fi tests.  hmmm  not sure if I need to tweak some settings as I dont seem to be able to get much more than 38Mbps.   The ipad isnt ideal to test with anyhow as even with my previous router the speeds werent that great anyhow heres the results.  I need to borrow a laptop really.  I did 3 in each loacation and show the average.

I know the results arent scientific but they may give you an idea.   Router is upstairs - front right corner of house.

37.5 / 18.3   Stood next to router
38.3 / 18.3   In the next room through one wall
35.4 / 18.2   Upstairs back left of house
36.3 / 18.1   Lounge
33.2 / 18.0   Previous 'dead spot' - bit surprised as had to lay CAT5 in the past to get a signal in this corner.  Ive even bought a wireless extender in the past which still didnt work very well.
30.4 / 18.0   Dining room
26.5 / 18.0   Kitchen
2.5 / 2.4  Right at the very bottom of back garden
Title: Re: ZyXel VMG8324-B10A Preliminary findings.
Post by: oshb5ems on April 06, 2014, 01:54:35 PM
Hi

I had been waiting for this thread and It sounds a great unit But I think with it being new still may throw up f/w or s/w issues and seeing as im already in the mire and my SNR has already suffered with the modem Router I have in thats failing hence waiting for this thread to decide what to get.. So I think I had better pump for something that is well known and will set up first time and stay up and be online for a while. If you get what I mean and this one although sounds just what im looking for in regards to the WiFi strength. But like I said better the devil I think. 

BUT what "DEVIL" it the million dollar question LOL :'(

Osh

P.S. I am sort of leaning towards the D6200..
Title: Re: ZyXel VMG8324-B10A Preliminary findings.
Post by: kitz on April 06, 2014, 02:41:43 PM
The wireless spec on the VMG8324-B10A isnt the latest and greatest as its only wireless n
 
I believe if you want the best wifi, you would perhaps be best waiting for the VMG8924-B10A, which looks the same and has the same BCM63168 chipset. In fact its practically the same router, the difference is the VMG8924 (http://www.zyxel.com/uk/en/products_services/vmg8924_b10a.shtml?t=p) has 802.11ac wireless technology.  Unfortunately it doesnt seem available yet in the uk, but if it were, it may take the price over what I wanted to pay.  :/

As you say even the VMG8324 is an unknown at present and may still throw up some issues with it being so new, so I can understand why you may prefer to go for a router thats been around a bit longer :)


Title: Re: ZyXel VMG8324-B10A Preliminary findings.
Post by: les-70 on April 06, 2014, 03:51:34 PM
   You will find the VMG8924-B10A on Amazon with one its sellers.  Much the same price.   I am not however sure about 802.11ac performance in general.  Reviews often show that while its great at short range it does not like walls.  I guess it is consequence of the higher 5ghz frequency.  Others may have first hand experience.
Title: Re: ZyXel VMG8324-B10A Preliminary findings.
Post by: kitz on April 06, 2014, 04:15:11 PM
Apologies, I hadnt seen one for sale before, but it was a couple of weeks since I last looked. :-[
Although the only one (http://www.amazon.co.uk/Vmg8924-b10a-Vdsl2-adsl2-Multiple-Mode/dp/B00ETIVHP6/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1396796638&sr=8-2&keywords=VMG8924) I can find on Amazon is for 175, which would have taken it out of my price range for sure :(
Title: Re: ZyXel VMG8324-B10A Preliminary findings.
Post by: les-70 on April 06, 2014, 04:48:16 PM
   Your quite right - a google search took me to http://www.amazon.co.uk/VMG1312-B10A-1000Base-T-802-11ac-Ethernet-VMG1312-B10A-UK01V1F/dp/B00GC3O3MU which is not right thing at all.  However the picture and the product description on that page is explicitly for a VMG8924-B10A which will be why it appears the google search.  Designed to confuse me at least.
Title: Re: ZyXel VMG8324-B10A Preliminary findings.
Post by: les-70 on April 07, 2014, 10:53:53 AM
  @kitz for your info

     100AAKL2C0_20131205.bin (21.3 MB)  contains 038 BLOB
     V100AAKL3b2.bin (21.6 MB)               contains 039 BLOB
     V100AAKL4b1.bin (21.8MB)                contains 039 BLOB

    Zytel ftp site has VMG8324-B10A_100AAKL0C0  which I guess is the first one but with a date missing.  You may have started with yet another version already in the device.   
Title: Re: ZyXel VMG8324-B10A Preliminary findings.
Post by: kitz on April 07, 2014, 12:16:13 PM
Thanks les,  yes I did start with another version when it arrived, but not sure what. :/
I was far more concerned at that time in actually getting it to connect


I didnt take much note of the firmware - I certainly didnt telnet to get the version.
However because I had to read something out to the Zyxel guy on the phone from the GUI,  I seem to recall that it may have been 1.00(AAKL.0) if that helps.
Title: Re: ZyXel VMG8324-B10A Preliminary findings.
Post by: kitz on April 08, 2014, 06:35:33 AM
Kitz isn't a happy bunny.  I appear to have fallen foul of the zyxel/apple streaming issue. 

Will update when I have more info.  Tried looking into it last night and have tried all the recommended fixes but to no avail.  :'(

Will have to contact zyxel again
Title: Re: ZyXel VMG8324-B10A Preliminary findings.
Post by: kitz on April 08, 2014, 05:00:35 PM
Update - Tried new firmware that was released today but the issue is still there.

All the symptoms are remarkably similar to the known problem that was on the sbg3300.   
The streaming issue only affects devices running iOS7.  My ipod(iOS6) and phone (android) are perfectly fine.

Since a fix was rolled out for the SBG3300 on the 26th of March, it is hopeful that it shouldnt take too long for new firmware to be written for the VMG8324 too.
Title: Re: ZyXel VMG8324-B10A Preliminary findings.
Post by: les-70 on April 09, 2014, 03:18:49 PM
   @kitz When you have some time I wondered if you could telnet in or use DSLstats to try the command "adsl configure  --maxDataRate 78000 18000 100000"  It will cause a resync unless applied when the router has the dsl RJ11 connection unpluged.  I have suggested a moderate rate cap which I am sure won't upset anything.   If you change the 78.. or 18.. values, you can leave the 10.. value unchanged, it only needs to be equal or bigger than the sum of the other two values.  I am on a ECI dslam and do it every day (I power off at night) with lower values of 64/16.  It has done what it is supposed to and goes back to the normal 80/20 max after a router reboot.  After a couple of months of this the DSLAM has shown no signs of noticing.

  I am still wondering over buying the zyxel and would like to know if that command works on it.   Don't worry if you don't fancy trying it.
Title: Re: ZyXel VMG8324-B10A Preliminary findings.
Post by: kitz on April 09, 2014, 07:31:06 PM
tbh id rather not try it atm - the way my luck is right now, Id probably stuff up my connection :(

I can confirm that the command is available though, so I dont see why it shouldnt work.

Code: [Select]
> adsl

       adsl configure/configure1 [--mod <a|d|l|t|2|p|e|m|M3|M5|v>] [--lpair <(i)nner|(o)uter>]
           [--trellis <on|off>] [--snr <snrQ4>] [--bitswap <on|off>] [--sesdrop<on|off>]
           [--sra <on|off>] [--CoMinMgn <on|off>] [--i24k <on|off>] [--phyReXmt<0xBitMap-UsDs>]
           [--Ginp <0xBitMap-UsDs>] [--TpsTc <0xBitMap-AvPvAaPa>] [--monitorTone <on|off>]
           [--profile <0x00 - 0xFF>|<"8a |8b |8c |8d |12a |12b |17a |30a">] [--us0 <on|off>]
           [--dynamicD <on|off>] [--dynamicF <on|off>] [--SOS <on|off>]
[--maxDataRate <maxDsDataRateKbps maxUsDataRateKbps maxAggrDataRateKbps>]  <------------------------------------
           [--forceJ43 <on|off>] [--toggleJ43B43 <on|off>]
Title: Re: ZyXel VMG8324-B10A Preliminary findings.
Post by: les-70 on April 10, 2014, 09:37:21 AM
 @kitz  Understood, doing something first time always makes me uneasy too.  One extra question:-  Does the zyxel have a an adsl/vdsl mode selection page in the gui.  i.e can you tick the modes such as adsl2 ...  vdsl2 etc on/off as on most modems?

 I ask as reading the manual it sounds as though the mode selection is automatic. 

 If I am tweaking I like to use these options to stop a sync on power up.  I then run a .bat file to tweak and enable the needed mode at the same time.  It avoids an extra resync due to the tweak.
Title: Re: ZyXel VMG8324-B10A Preliminary findings.
Post by: kitz on April 10, 2014, 10:14:16 AM
This is what I intend putting a page up about, as its perhaps not intuitive.  Especially in the first version of the firmware when the quick start doesnt work for vdsl and the config wasnt saving.

I believe you should be able to get around it by deleting the existing interfaces and creating your own, but even the guy at ZyXel couldnt get it to work.  It fixed when I updated the firmware..  although I dont know if quick start is working or not now, because Im now in the habit of configuring it myself now I know more what Im doing in there.  You can name the interface what you like and then set your own preferences.

Anyhow in answer to your question... yes you can set up different interfaces. By default you are supplied with 3 but you have the option of creating your own.   In the early versions of firmware I deleted all the supplied interfaces and just had the one that I created.   Now Im using an edited version of the VDSL default...  and theres a tick box where you select the one you want as active.

I'll get some screen grabs of the default configs... and then one of some of the settings that you can change via the GUI.  I'll have to do this from the PC though so it will be later on.
Title: Re: ZyXel VMG8324-B10A Preliminary findings.
Post by: les-70 on April 10, 2014, 08:10:15 PM
    It depends what options are available on the interfaces.  On the HG612 the interfaces don't include the xdsl mode, that is set overall under the dsl tab.  Indeed any "xdslcmd or adsl" command made with  telnet sets the xdsl options for everything so it should not be an interface by interface setting.   Section 5.4 of the Zyxel  manual has an advanced screen with the option of "enabling adsl over ptm"  that looks a bit like an xdsl option page and includes e.g sra and annex m.  However there does not seem to be an equivalent of all the HG612 dsl settings which allow adsl modes and vdsl to be selected.  It looks from the manual as though the default is "all" with exception of PTM which is normally only vdsl but with option of adding adsl over ptm.   That said there is the annex m option, with the HG622 I think (not sure though) that option kills vdsl2. With the Zyxel it depends how mindlessly the annex m option is applied.
Title: Re: ZyXel VMG8324-B10A Preliminary findings.
Post by: kitz on April 10, 2014, 09:36:01 PM
These are the screeens from the GUI that I currently have set

1) interfaces screen

2,3 & 4) WAN configs are in an i-frame - so screen caps as I scroll down the page. Not included the MTU setting at the end.

Title: Re: ZyXel VMG8324-B10A Preliminary findings.
Post by: kitz on April 10, 2014, 09:36:57 PM
Finally the advanced screen.


Hopefully these may help.
Title: Re: ZyXel VMG8324-B10A Preliminary findings.
Post by: kitz on April 13, 2014, 05:40:20 PM
Update - Tried new firmware that was released today but the issue is still there.

All the symptoms are remarkably similar to the known problem that was on the sbg3300.   
The streaming issue only affects devices running iOS7.  My ipod(iOS6) and phone (android) are perfectly fine.

Since a fix was rolled out for the SBG3300 on the 26th of March, it is hopeful that it shouldnt take too long for new firmware to be written for the VMG8324 too.

Well Ive had a reply from ZyXel asking for more information on my devices as they cant seem to replicate the issue.

So a bit of digging today and I notice this

http://usertools.plus.net/status/archive/1396600749.htm

Quote
Posted on: Friday 4 April 2014, 09:39
We've been made aware that some customers are experiencing some problems when trying to access certain online services, this may be most noticeable when using streaming websites.

Posted on: Friday 11 April 2014, 10:59
This is an update to Tuesday's post regarding problems using or accessing some online service and streaming websites.

Customers should now see that the majority of online services and streaming websites are working correctly. We are still in contact with the remaining services and sites affected and they are working with us to resolve these problems.

...  and guess what Ive just managed to stream for an hour on the ipad.   Seems rather strange that whatever it was only affected iOS7 devices...  still not convinced at what the issue is here. 


---------
Update

It appears that I may have been caught up with a Nationwide issue that affected iOS with BBC iplayer, SkyGo & NowTV and it wasnt actually anything to do with the ZyXel.   
This problem has now been fixed for iPlayer (https://twitter.com/BBCiPlayer/status/456804934613483520) which works perfectly fine again.



Title: Re: ZyXel VMG8324-B10A Preliminary findings.
Post by: idb on April 21, 2014, 05:26:10 PM
Any further thoughts or observations you would care to share about this device?

I've been thinking about getting a combined device for a little while now, and have had a good experience with ZyXel stuff in the past, so I am seriously considering splashing out on one.

TIA
Title: Re: ZyXel VMG8324-B10A Preliminary findings.
Post by: kitz on April 21, 2014, 07:13:45 PM
My overall opinion is I like it and Im definitely keeping it.  I still have a ticket open & iirc Im on my 5th firmware, but as it stands everything that I have reported to Zyxel has now been fixed.  If you do purchase one you will have to request the firmwares from ZyXel as I believe several of them havent been put out for public release yet.

TBH in between gutting the bedroom and hall and various electricians/fitters/joiners and doing all the hard graft myself I havent really had chance to explore it much more than Ive said in here, but I will summarise.

Plus points


Cons


Oh and another plus-point - it works with DSLstats, and may soon work with HG612modemstats ;)
Title: Re: ZyXel VMG8324-B10A Preliminary findings.
Post by: idb on April 21, 2014, 08:50:50 PM
Thanks for the comprehensive reply. 

Although I'm nowhere near being an expert on configuring modems and routers I think I probably know enough to bumble through so I've decided to go ahead and order one (from the stuff-uk site that was mentioned earlier).  We shall see how it goes  :'(
Title: Re: ZyXel VMG8324-B10A Preliminary findings.
Post by: Bald_Eagle1 on April 21, 2014, 09:07:20 PM
FWIW, I THINK the HG612 Modem Stats programs now work as intended with the ZyXel modem.

Kitz & I have been doing some debugging tests recently & she is (hopefully) about to test them on her live connection.


Some users have both DSLStats & HG612 Modem Stats running in tandem with each other because when combined, they provide real time visuals & stats along with really long term instant & ongoing monitoring stats & graphs.

All of which can be & are VERY useful when attempting to prove a line fault or other faults/bridged taps/crosstalk/REIN etc. to your ISP and BT OpenReach.


Title: Re: ZyXel VMG8324-B10A Preliminary findings.
Post by: kitz on April 21, 2014, 11:13:44 PM
Quote
FWIW, I THINK the HG612 Modem Stats programs now work as intended with the ZyXel modem.

Yes its looking good so far and I have your email - thank you so very much for all the work you put into this.
Ive been sanding down plaster which is why I didnt respond earlier and I now look like Im covered in talc. Unfortunately I seem to be having some problem locating the correct version of Ronski's GUI to slot everything together.

In view of the fact I need to go get a shower (& long hair takes ages to dry)...  and I have to be up early tomorrow, Im not quite sure when I can report back on this, because its certainly not looking like it will be tonight now.   Perhaps tomorrow eve if I get chance.   
Title: Re: ZyXel VMG8324-B10A Preliminary findings.
Post by: Bald_Eagle1 on April 21, 2014, 11:48:20 PM
Im not quite sure when I can report back on this, because its certainly not looking like it will be tonight now.   Perhaps tomorrow eve if I get chance.



That's no problem, Kitz.

(especially as it seems that only you have one of these modems on a VDSL2 connection - at the moment).


Title: Re: ZyXel VMG8324-B10A Preliminary findings.
Post by: Ronski on April 22, 2014, 10:13:41 AM
[Unfortunately I seem to be having some problem locating the correct version of Ronski's GUI to slot everything together.

Kitz, it should just be a case of checking for updates from the GUI, you will need to make sure you have receive beta updates selected on the GUI settings tab. You should then be offered the latest update when checking for updates.
Title: Re: ZyXel VMG8324-B10A Preliminary findings.
Post by: kitz on April 22, 2014, 01:25:26 PM
Quote
Kitz, it should just be a case of checking for updates from the GUI, you will need to make sure you have receive beta updates selected on the GUI settings tab. You should then be offered the latest update when checking for updates.

Cheers, I wasnt aware of that as I was doing a fresh install (Not put it back on since I formatted my drive etc), so I will know for future.  BE kindly forwarded me a copy so Im going to try that later :)
Title: Re: ZyXel VMG8324-B10A Preliminary findings.
Post by: rob on April 22, 2014, 02:22:14 PM
Ive just done some quick wi-fi tests.  hmmm  not sure if I need to tweak some settings as I dont seem to be able to get much more than 38Mbps.   The ipad isnt ideal to test with anyhow as even with my previous router the speeds werent that great anyhow heres the results.  I need to borrow a laptop really.  I did 3 in each loacation and show the average.

Sorry for digging up a slightly older post, but these WiFi speeds might actually not be too bad depending on the devices you're using.

The advertised speeds of WiFi are maximum theoretical link speeds and you'll never achieve those as throughput speeds, ever.  Also keep in mind that like powerline, WiFi is half duplex (i.e. each radio can transmit or receive, not both simultaneously).  Whilst it is possible to achieve a throughput of over half the link speed in one direction, the speeds are always going to be closer to the halfway point than the full link speed.

Also, starting in 802.11n, you can use multiple spatial streams (and 40MHz channels) to increase the data rates further but for each spatial stream you need a dedicated antenna at each end so you'll always be limited to the worst device.  WiFi access points that claim up to 300Mbps can only achieve this link speed using 2 spatial streams, 40MHz channels and short guard intervals (400ns instead of 800ns).  If your iPad only has a single internal WiFi antenna then you're only ever going to be able to achieve a maximum link speed of 150Mbps (40MHz channel) or 72Mbps (20MHz channel).  If you don't enable short GI this then drops further to 135 or 65Mbps.

Enabling 40MHz channels may also make things worse if you have other wireless networks nearby as it increases the chance of interference (and is therefore not recommended expect in very quiet spaces).  For example, when I tested 20MHz vs 40MHz on my access point in a fairly crowded air space (I can usually see 25+ wireless networks), the bandwidth speed dropped from 30-40Mbps to 20-25Mbps (my laptop which was used for the test only has a single antenna and can't do short GI in 20MHz mode so my maximum link speed is limited to 65Mbps).

The speeds you quote seem to mirror those that I've seen when one side is running with a 65/72Mbps link speed, suggesting that your iPad may well be limited to this.  Most phones and tablets only have a single antenna so it doesn't matter what you connect to you'll never get more than 65/72Mbps from them.
Title: Re: ZyXel VMG8324-B10A Preliminary findings.
Post by: kitz on April 22, 2014, 07:37:33 PM
Hi rob.

Thank you very much for your input and informative post. Its most apprecaited.

Yes the settings are at 40MHz and I have tried tweaking a few things, but only made it worse.
This is what the Zyxel says about the connection to the ipad
Code: [Select]
Connection Type: 802.11n
Connection Rate: 65 Mbps
Link quality: 100%

A speedtest next to the router has just given me 37.4/18.3 Mbps. I think you may be correct with regards to the ipad.  I had a feeling it may be something like this due to the fact speeds dont seem to decrease the further away from the router.  Its only when on a different floor, and through a couple of walls and as far away in the house that I can get from the router that I start to see a real degradation of the speeds..  suggesting that 38Mbps is tops Im going to get on the ipad/ mobile phone.

For comparison, the following is the results at 20MHz

Code: [Select]
Connection Type: 802.11n
Connection Rate: 65 Mbps
Link quality: 100%

Speedtest 35/18.3 Mbps.

I usually see anything up to a dozen other networks at most. 

Quote
If you don't enable short GI this then drops further to 135 or 65Mbps.

OK after looking through all the GUI settings, I came across this page (see cap below)
Note the Preamble setting = "long" by default.
Consulting the user manual tells me this

Quote
Choices are Long or Short.  This field is configurable only when you set 802.11 to 802.11b

As a test I just changed it to 802.11b/g Mixed and set the preamble to Short..  and got some pretty abysmal speedtests & regained the deadspot in the corner of the lounge. 
So its back at 802.11b/g/n..... and rather strangely because I didnt change anything else other than mode and preamble...  Im now getting very consistent 41Mbps ???  Which is the best speed its given so far.

Title: Re: ZyXel VMG8324-B10A Preliminary findings.
Post by: idb on April 22, 2014, 08:14:02 PM
If you do purchase one you will have to request the firmwares from ZyXel as I believe several of them havent been put out for public release yet.

As I half expected - I emailed support and politely asked if they could let me have copies of the updated firmware that I had heard about but which wasn't available on their web site yet.  They responded (very quickly I must say) but only with a link to the existing firmware (dated 3/9/13) page  :( 

I think I'll just wait until I get the device (hopefully tomorrow) and then query any problems with them - hopefully resulting in a solution that involves them sending me the new firmware!
Title: Re: ZyXel VMG8324-B10A Preliminary findings.
Post by: kitz on April 22, 2014, 08:26:54 PM
I can let you have them.  I'll PM you in a mo.
I was told they must be installed incrementally as one of the updated firmwares wont work unless you do one of the others first - possibly why they dont put it up for public consumption.


Until I get around to doing a proper page, the config information you need to set up a new interface is here (http://forum.kitz.co.uk/index.php?topic=13769.60). Hopefully you should just be able to copy my settings.  In the early FWs I deleted all the default interfaces and created a brand new one, but it is possible now just to simply edit the existing VDSL one.

I recommend you DONT use firefox to set up anything.   It doesnt seem to save any of the changes you make.   Ive just been caught out by this myself when playing with the wireless settings, even though I knew  ::)   Use chrome which works and will give you less grief when you hit 'save'
Title: Re: ZyXel VMG8324-B10A Preliminary findings.
Post by: rob on April 22, 2014, 09:17:27 PM
Yes the settings are at 40MHz and I have tried tweaking a few things, but only made it worse.
This is what the Zyxel says about the connection to the ipad
Code: [Select]
Connection Type: 802.11n
Connection Rate: 65 Mbps
Link quality: 100%

A speedtest next to the router has just given me 37.4/18.3 Mbps. I think you may be correct with regards to the ipad.  I had a feeling it may be something like this due to the fact speeds dont seem to decrease the further away from the router.  Its only when on a different floor, and through a couple of walls and as far away in the house that I can get from the router that I start to see a real degradation of the speeds..  suggesting that 38Mbps is tops Im going to get on the ipad/ mobile phone.

For comparison, the following is the results at 20MHz

Code: [Select]
Connection Type: 802.11n
Connection Rate: 65 Mbps
Link quality: 100%

Speedtest 35/18.3 Mbps.

I must admit that I'm not really too clued up with iPads (I use Android phones and tablets), but it does look like that it only has a single antenna and doesn't support short guard intervals or 40MHz, much like my 2012 Nexus 7 (which also doesn't support WiFi channels 12 and 13 correctly when used on a 802.11n access point).  Smartphones and tablets are very useful but are often let down by poor wireless hardware. :(  Given the connection information you've posted I wouldn't worry too much about your speeds.  The connection looks as good as it can be and the speeds will vary depending on many factors (RF continues to be a black art).

Since I upgraded to FTTC last summer my broadband speed is now greater than my wireless speed I can get from my laptop (~65-70Mbps vs 40Mbps WiFi) and whilst there could be scope to improve my broadband speed I see little point given I spend most of my time using my laptop which is now the limiting factor.

Quote
If you don't enable short GI this then drops further to 135 or 65Mbps.

OK after looking through all the GUI settings, I came across this page (see cap below)
Note the Preamble setting = "long" by default.
Consulting the user manual tells me this

Quote
Choices are Long or Short.  This field is configurable only when you set 802.11 to 802.11b

As a test I just changed it to 802.11b/g Mixed and set the preamble to Short..  and got some pretty abysmal speedtests & regained the deadspot in the corner of the lounge. 
So its back at 802.11b/g/n..... and rather strangely because I didnt change anything else other than mode and preamble...  Im now getting very consistent 41Mbps ???  Which is the best speed its given so far.

Unless you have some very old 802.11b devices that operate at slow link speeds (1 or 2Mbps) then you don't need a long preamble.  If all your devices are 802.11g or above then a short preamble will work across the board.  Whether this affects actual throughput I don't know as I've never tested it - I've always picked short and moved on.  You certainly don't want to set the 802.11b/g mode as you'll limit yourself to the older 802.11g 54Mbps link rates which will result in your worse throughput.

The guard intervals (think of these as interpacket gaps) are more useful as 802.11n added short GIs which are half the period of the older ones which equates to an increased data rate (roughly 11%) providing both ends support them.  If one device doesn't support them then it'll run with the standard 800ns intervals but won't prevent devices that do support the shorter 400ns intervals from working.  I can't see where this may be enabled in the screenshot you provided so it may be on a different page.

Edit: I've just looked at the manual for the router and I suspect it may be enabling short guard intervals automatically as it refers to 150Mbps for 20MHz channels and 300Mbps for 40MHz which are only obtainable with 2 spatial streams and short GI enabled.

I found that I had to try several WiFi channels (1, 6 and 11) to see which was best for me.  Try to avoid using any of the channels between those as they'll just suffer more interference.  1, 6 and 11 are the only 2.4GHz channels that don't interfere (WiFi radios aren't usually this good and there is still some interference, but it's minimal).  Any channel between these will suffer (and cause) interference to the big 3 either side of it.  Networks sharing channels cause less overall interference than those overlapping.  Mind you, if the networks you are sharing with have signal levels of -80dBm or lower then I wouldn't worry about them.

I would recommend manually selecting a channel rather than having it set to auto since auto normally only works at power on and if the Sky routers nearby are anything to go by then auto means select the same channel as mine. :lol:
Title: Re: ZyXel VMG8324-B10A Preliminary findings.
Post by: kitz on April 24, 2014, 09:56:59 AM
Thank you so much for your response.   

>> but it does look like that it only has a single antenna and doesn't support short guard intervals or 40MHz

I think you may be right...  iirc in one of my earlier posts I mentioned that I need to borrow a lappy to see if things are any better.  My Galaxy S4 mini has just given me 38Mbps @ speedtest.net & 44.5Mbps on the TBB mobile tester..  but then again the ipad is also performing a bit better at 41Mbps since the other day. 

>> Unless you have some very old 802.11b devices that operate at slow link speeds

I dont think I do - I went straight back to '802.11b/g/n' anyhow because otherwise things are worse.

>>  I can't see where this may be enabled in the screenshot you provided so it may be on a different page.

I couldnt see anything..   as soon as I select  802.11b/g/n Mixed - then the option for Preamble gets disabled. Same if I select 802.11n only...  so you may be right in that it sets it automatically.

I need to have a play sometime with the different channels and go through them all to see which works best for me.  :)

Title: Re: ZyXel VMG8324-B10A Preliminary findings.
Post by: kitz on April 26, 2014, 09:30:18 PM
Ive now written a page for this router - ZyXEL VMG8324-B10A  Review (http://www.kitz.co.uk/routers/zyxel_VMG8324-B10A_review.htm).

In view of the fact that the default firmware's setup guide doesnt work, Ive also written a tutorial on How to configure your router for VDSL (http://www.kitz.co.uk/routers/zyxel_VMG8324-B10A_vdsl_setup.htm).

Ive also heard briefly from someone else who has bought one of these routers and is amazed at the configuration options available.  From what I can gather he too found the set up not the most intuitive, but hopefully the guide Ive provided now should rectify that.

It works out of the box with Erics DLStats - just select Zyxel VMG1213-B
A HG612 modem stats version is still in beta but atm working rather nicely.  Big thank you to BaldEagle1 for all the time he's spent getting modemstats working on the VMG8324, despite not having the router himself.  You wont believe the number of emails that have flown between us the past few weeks. :)

Ive now had the router 4 weeks, and although there are still a few slight firmware niggles, they are now what I consider cosmetic, and anything major has been ironed out. Considering I appear to be the first using this router for VDSL isnt too unexpected.  ZyXEL support have been pretty good and I cant complain.

On the whole Im very pleased with it and its definitely one to consider if you are looking for a combined VDSL modem router with GbE.
Title: Re: ZyXel VMG8324-B10A Preliminary findings.
Post by: Ronski on April 26, 2014, 10:46:35 PM
Nice guides, almost tempted to buy one.
Title: Re: ZyXel VMG8324-B10A Preliminary findings.
Post by: kitz on April 27, 2014, 12:29:18 AM
I'm normally loathe to do reviews, just in case what works for me doesnt work for someone else...  or just after I write a review something goes titsup.   Thats why I always try to be reserved about what Ive written.

However in view of the distinct lack of vdsl router choice and how expensive they can be.. I felt that this one being the first to come in at my price range was worth a go, and I promised in this thread that I would.

Im glad I stuck with the early issues and the VDSL config stuff, yes it was a PITA the amount of time Ive spent with Zyxel getting new FW and things sorted, but I feel its been worth it.   I'd rate the router higher if ZyXEL has actually tried to see if the FW worked on UK vdsl though before releasing it in the UK....  rather than waiting for guinea-pigs like me to report issues  ::)

Theres another factor that would be interesting to find out too.   
Ive noticed in the past that some routers that are the best on short lines arent necessarily good on long lines - and vice versa - for eg the 2wire was a complete piece of p00 on my adsl2+ line giving utterly rubbish syncs.    Im not sure what Id be classed as on VDSL - Im no longer classed as a very short line - but its certainly not a long line, I suppose its still shortish  :)   
Title: Re: ZyXel VMG8324-B10A Preliminary findings.
Post by: dmcdonnell on May 04, 2014, 02:07:35 PM
Just to report that the bootloader can be unlocked via serial. Generate the seed for your router and enter the code here: http://www.tonycool.es/zyxel/zynpass_en.htm

This will unlock all the CFE commands. It should be possible to flash any suitable firmware. I only have the Eircom firmware but if there are other firmwares available, I am willing to try flashing those.

You can also login, via telnet and browser, using the username supervisor with your admin password. This will enable a Login Privilege button on the main router page. You should then have group supervisor privileges rather than administrator rights.
Title: Re: ZyXel VMG8324-B10A Preliminary findings.
Post by: les-70 on May 06, 2014, 10:44:06 AM
  @kitz or other ZyXel VMG8324-B10A  owner.  Please could you try the command e.g. "adsl configure  --maxDataRate 78000 19000 100000" the first two numbers just need to be less than any values you normally sync at, the third value need not be changed.  I have not seem any adverse DSLAM response with this on an ECI DSLAM other than an increase in upstream power if I set the upstream max less than about 18Mbs.  I am sure it is quite safe if you only make a small sync reduction. Setting values as low as 60/15 did not cause me any loss of an immediate return to normal at the next resync.

    If it works I will be getting one.  It ought to work but i never quite trust things to work unless tested.  I am concerned not to loose that option as it seems a way to lower the sync a bit and ensure fastpath is maintained.
Title: Re: ZyXel VMG8324-B10A Preliminary findings.
Post by: kitz on May 07, 2014, 09:13:37 PM
Quote
Please could you try the command e.g. "adsl configure  --maxDataRate 78000 19000 100000"

Sorry to sound thick, but do you know if there is a default setting and how would I take it back to the default.   
atm Im having work done on the house and Ive not been able to get into the computer room each day this week - not without climbing over hurdles of furniture that is stored everywhere but its proper home - so for the next week or so I'll mostly be using the ipad which limits what I can and cant do.

iirc using the above settings will cause a resync?
I know that the setting is there, its just not something I have tried.
Title: Re: ZyXel VMG8324-B10A Preliminary findings.
Post by: les-70 on May 07, 2014, 09:48:23 PM
   It would cause a resync and to get the default back a reboot and thus a second resync is needed. The default values seem to be all three numbers zero but a given that a resync will occur anyway a reboot is easier.

 If you don't like resyncs please don't bother, I do understand that many are nervous of the consequences of resyncs.  Also given the sound of the work in your house it is probably best left alone. I would hate to give you another problem after some of your recent sagas.  As you say the command is there and most likely will work, however you can't always be sure that commands in "xdslcmd" or "adsl" are actually supported until you try them.  I will probably just take a chance on it working. 
Title: Re: ZyXel VMG8324-B10A Preliminary findings.
Post by: kitz on May 07, 2014, 10:38:43 PM
The odd resync doesnt bother me..  Ive been up for 20 days now, the last resync was only due to me powering down before the electrician turned off power.   Electrician is due back next week to finish off, so I expect to have no power next wed morning anyhow.

So if say next Tues eve I try those settings...  Power the router down on Wed am before the leccy comes, then when I power up again on Wed afternoon will it clear them, yet still retain any of my other configs/prefs?

What Im trying to ask, is if by issuing the cmd, then its not something that permanently saves in the config?  and it clears with a simple router
reboot. 

------
ETA

Confirmed not a permanent save to config and clears on a router reboot.
Title: Re: ZyXel VMG8324-B10A Preliminary findings.
Post by: kitz on May 07, 2014, 10:58:53 PM
oh sod it - I just went for it. lol

Here you go

Code: [Select]
VMG8324-B10A
Login: admin
Password:
 > adsl configure --maxDataRate 78000 19000 100000
 >


Quote
Stats recorded 07 May 2014 22:57:50

DSLAM/MSAN type:           IFTN:0xb203 / v0xb203
Modem/router firmware:     AnnexA version - A2pv6F039i.d24e
DSL mode:                  VDSL2
Status:                    Showtime
Uptime:                    1 min 37 sec
Resyncs:                   0 (since 04 May 2014 23:00:02)
         
            Downstream   Upstream
Attenuation (dB):                
Connection speed (kbps):   77982      18999
SNR margin (dB):           8.8      12.9
Power (dBm):               14.3      5.1
Interleave depth:          1      1
INP:                       0      0

RSCorr/RS (%):             N/A      0.0000
RSUnCorr/RS (%):           N/A      0.0000
ES/hour:                   8.05      0.73

Title: Re: ZyXel VMG8324-B10A Preliminary findings.
Post by: kitz on May 07, 2014, 11:25:42 PM
Before

Code: [Select]
HELLO ZyXel VMG8324-B10A
adsl info --pbParams
adsl: ADSL driver and PHY status
Status: Showtime
Last Retrain Reason:    0
Last initialization procedure status:   0
Max:    Upstream rate = 30511 Kbps, Downstream rate = 88973 Kbps
Bearer: 0, Upstream rate = 20000 Kbps, Downstream rate = 79987 Kbps

Discovery Phase (Initial) Band Plan
US: (6,31) (882,1193) (1984,2770)
DS: (33,857) (1218,1959) (2795,4083)
Medley Phase (Final) Band Plan
US: (6,31) (882,1193) (1984,2770)
DS: (41,857) (1218,1959) (2795,4083)
  VDSL Port Details   Upstream   Downstream
Attainable Net Data Rate:           30511 kbps              88973 kbps
Actual Aggregate Tx Power:             4.4 dBm               14.3 dBm
====================================================================================
  VDSL Band Status U0 U1 U2 U3 U4 D1 D2 D3
  Line Attenuation(dB):  0.5     17.8    26.9     N/A     N/A    10.7    23.6    37.0   
Signal Attenuation(dB):  0.4     17.6    26.8     N/A     N/A    10.4    23.4    37.0   
SNR Margin(dB): 11.4 9.7 12.3   N/A   N/A 8.2 8.2 8.2
  TX Power(dBm): -6.6 -28.0 4.0   N/A   N/A 11.8 7.4 7.4
 
Good Bye ZyXel VMG8324-B10A

During

Code: [Select]
HELLO ZyXel VMG8324-B10A
adsl info --pbParams
adsl: ADSL driver and PHY status
Status: Showtime
Last Retrain Reason:    0
Last initialization procedure status:   0
Max:    Upstream rate = 18999 Kbps, Downstream rate = 87334 Kbps
Bearer: 0, Upstream rate = 18999 Kbps, Downstream rate = 77982 Kbps

Discovery Phase (Initial) Band Plan
US: (6,31) (882,1193) (1984,2770)
DS: (33,857) (1218,1959) (2795,4083)
Medley Phase (Final) Band Plan
US: (6,31) (882,1193) (1984,2770)
DS: (41,857) (1218,1959) (2795,4083)
  VDSL Port Details   Upstream   Downstream
Attainable Net Data Rate:           18999 kbps              87334 kbps
Actual Aggregate Tx Power:             5.1 dBm               14.2 dBm
====================================================================================
  VDSL Band Status U0 U1 U2 U3 U4 D1 D2 D3
  Line Attenuation(dB):  0.0     0.0     0.0      N/A     N/A    10.8    23.7    37.3   
Signal Attenuation(dB):  0.0     0.0     0.0      N/A     N/A    10.5    23.6    37.3   
SNR Margin(dB): 0.0 0.0 0.0   N/A   N/A 0.0 0.0 0.0
  TX Power(dBm): -5.9 -27.0 4.8   N/A   N/A 12.0 7.2 7.4
 
Good Bye ZyXel VMG8324-B10A


After

Code: [Select]
HELLO ZyXel VMG8324-B10A
adsl info --pbParams
adsl: ADSL driver and PHY status
Status: Showtime
Last Retrain Reason:    0
Last initialization procedure status:   0
Max:    Upstream rate = 30528 Kbps, Downstream rate = 88372 Kbps
Bearer: 0, Upstream rate = 20000 Kbps, Downstream rate = 79987 Kbps

Discovery Phase (Initial) Band Plan
US: (6,31) (882,1193) (1984,2770)
DS: (33,857) (1218,1959) (2795,4083)
Medley Phase (Final) Band Plan
US: (6,31) (882,1193) (1984,2770)
DS: (41,857) (1218,1959) (2795,4083)
  VDSL Port Details   Upstream   Downstream
Attainable Net Data Rate:           30528 kbps              88372 kbps
Actual Aggregate Tx Power:             5.8 dBm               14.3 dBm
====================================================================================
  VDSL Band Status U0 U1 U2 U3 U4 D1 D2 D3
  Line Attenuation(dB):  0.6     17.7    27.1     N/A     N/A    10.8    23.7    37.3   
Signal Attenuation(dB):  0.5     17.5    27.0     N/A     N/A    10.5    23.5    37.2   
SNR Margin(dB): 14.5 13.1 12.4   N/A   N/A 8.2 8.2 8.2
  TX Power(dBm): -6.0 -26.9 5.5   N/A   N/A 11.8 7.4 7.4
 
Good Bye ZyXel VMG8324-B10A
Title: Re: ZyXel VMG8324-B10A Preliminary findings.
Post by: les-70 on May 08, 2014, 07:25:46 AM
   That great -- many thanks  :)
Title: Re: ZyXel VMG8324-B10A Preliminary findings.
Post by: Balb0wa on May 08, 2014, 09:34:02 AM
Ive just ordered one of these, could someone please send me the latest firmwares please, thanks
Title: Re: ZyXel VMG8324-B10A Preliminary findings.
Post by: kitz on May 08, 2014, 05:53:30 PM
yw les-70

:)

@ balb0wa - I'll pm you the details because I dont think the version I have has yet been officially released for public.  1.00(AAKL.4)b2  - V100AAKL4b2


 Despite that I find it the most stable and the one which fixes most of the issues.   idb is also using this same version too.

Im also unsure if the quick start setup works for vdsl2 and you will likely need to edit the vdsl2 interface.  Details how to do that are here
Set up ZyXEL VMG8324-B10A for VDSL (http://www.kitz.co.uk/routers/zyxel_VMG8324-B10A_vdsl_setup.htm)

Good luck :)
Title: Re: ZyXel VMG8324-B10A Preliminary findings.
Post by: Balb0wa on May 08, 2014, 07:16:48 PM
yw les-70

:)

@ balb0wa - I'll pm you the details because I dont think the version I have has yet been officially released for public.  1.00(AAKL.4)b2  - V100AAKL4b2


 Despite that I find it the most stable and the one which fixes most of the issues.   idb is also using this same version too.

Im also unsure if the quick start setup works for vdsl2 and you will likely need to edit the vdsl2 interface.  Details how to do that are here
http://www.kitz.co.uk/routers/zyxel_VMG8324-B10A_vdsl_setup.htm

Good luck :)

thanks, ive just messaged you asking if its ok to flash to the latest without doing any other update, i emaile zyxel this morning, they replied this afternoon saying that no firmwares have been released for it at all.

"Robert, there are no firmware updates available for this model, 1.00(AAKL.0) is the only firmware available" i think you got a similar response on here.
Title: Re: ZyXel VMG8324-B10A Preliminary findings.
Post by: kitz on May 08, 2014, 09:30:51 PM

thanks, ive just messaged you asking if its ok to flash to the latest without doing any other update, i emaile zyxel this morning, they replied this afternoon saying that no firmwares have been released for it at all.

"Robert, there are no firmware updates available for this model, 1.00(AAKL.0) is the only firmware available" i think you got a similar response on here.

yw :)

In view of the amount of people wanting this firmware, Ive now set up a separate thread for firmware information  :)

ZyXel VMG8324-B10A Firmware (http://forum.kitz.co.uk/index.php?topic=13930.msg261936#msg261936)

Title: Re: ZyXel VMG8324-B10A Preliminary findings.
Post by: Balb0wa on May 09, 2014, 05:37:46 PM
been having a play with mine, cant seem to be able to change the wireless channel, don't think its possible is it?

(http://img835.imageshack.us/img835/1781/fiun.jpg)
Title: Re: ZyXel VMG8324-B10A Preliminary findings.
Post by: les-70 on May 09, 2014, 06:55:51 PM
Mine arrived today at 16.30 so I have not done much at all apart from a settings scan.  I had the wireless channel issue with the supplied firmware but not with the recommended updated firmware that kitz has made available.  Which version are you using?

  by the way firmware has returned to the zyxel web site but only the dodgy version already in the supplied device.
Title: Re: ZyXel VMG8324-B10A Preliminary findings.
Post by: Balb0wa on May 09, 2014, 06:58:10 PM
im using the latest one, 1.00(AAKL.4)b2  , I updated it in one go though, not the previous ones, hmm
Title: Re: ZyXel VMG8324-B10A Preliminary findings.
Post by: les-70 on May 09, 2014, 07:09:54 PM
After the update I did paper clip  reset.  i.e. powered up and press reset for 10sec. Sometimes old settings linger.
Title: Re: ZyXel VMG8324-B10A Preliminary findings.
Post by: Balb0wa on May 09, 2014, 07:24:40 PM
After the update I did paper clip  reset.  i.e. powered up and press reset for 10sec. Sometimes old settings linger.

Yes that sorted it, cheers ;-)
Title: Re: ZyXel VMG8324-B10A Preliminary findings.
Post by: les-70 on May 09, 2014, 07:27:32 PM
  Instant report which may well change.  Only a 1Mb/s increase in speed with the Zyxel i.e. attainable 78 to 79.  Otherwise it seems to work OK with no obvious issues but a rather slow boot up time.
Title: Re: ZyXel VMG8324-B10A Preliminary findings.
Post by: Balb0wa on May 09, 2014, 07:27:54 PM
This is my before and after, i still think id get better upload if BT stuck me on a 40/10 profile instead of 40/2  :( tried, and they wont shift me, although its contract renew time this week , so i may well have another go.

HG612
(http://img842.imageshack.us/img842/5075/igx5g.jpg)

ZYXEL
(http://img834.imageshack.us/img834/5581/7f3m.jpg)


Title: Re: ZyXel VMG8324-B10A Preliminary findings.
Post by: Ronski on May 09, 2014, 10:39:48 PM
This is my before and after, i still think id get better upload if BT stuck me on a 40/10 profile instead of 40/2  :( tried, and they wont shift me, although its contract renew time this week , so i may well have another go.

Your attainable upstream speed is well below 2000 kbps so changing to a 40/10 profile will not make any difference.
Title: Re: ZyXel VMG8324-B10A Preliminary findings.
Post by: Balb0wa on May 09, 2014, 10:48:46 PM
This is my before and after, i still think id get better upload if BT stuck me on a 40/10 profile instead of 40/2  :( tried, and they wont shift me, although its contract renew time this week , so i may well have another go.

Your attainable upstream speed is well below 2000 kbps so changing to a 40/10 profile will not make any difference.

Im not so sure, im on a 2 upload profile, it pumps 2 out , i get about 40% of it , if it pumped 10 out so to speak, would i not get 2-4 upload?

Im pretty sure, back when i was put on this trial , a few others on it, asked to be put on a 10 up profile and they got a boost.

We only got on the trial as they quoted below 15 download.
Title: Re: ZyXel VMG8324-B10A Preliminary findings.
Post by: Ronski on May 14, 2014, 07:12:56 AM
It doesn't work like that, the modem will always report what it thinks your attainable is regardless of what speed package your on. If you have interleaving applied to your connection then the attainable will almost certainly be a fair bit higher than what is achievable.

The others would have had a higher attainable speed than 2, hence when put on 10 they got a boost.
Title: Re: ZyXel VMG8324-B10A Preliminary findings.
Post by: MrTAToad on May 16, 2014, 05:41:08 PM
I'm having a hell of job trying to get the Zyxel to connect to my PlusNet FTTC - it just states that it can't connect and the DSL light is orange.

I've set everything up according to the setup guide, but with no luck...  The password & username is correct, although I'm wondering if a character (&) in the password could be causing the problem.
Title: Re: ZyXel VMG8324-B10A Preliminary findings.
Post by: les-70 on May 16, 2014, 06:22:14 PM
  If you are using the supplied firmware or even the latest on the Zyxel web site it just won't work on FTTC.  You need a firmware update see http://forum.kitz.co.uk/index.php?topic=13930.0  After it is uploaded and restarted it is best to also do a factory reset with paper clip press on the reset on back for 10 sec.

   If you are using the updated firmware then check against the kitz guide, there is a link in the second post of the above thread.
Title: Re: ZyXel VMG8324-B10A Preliminary findings.
Post by: MrTAToad on May 16, 2014, 06:47:21 PM
Didn't get anywhere with the firmware updates, so I'm going to send it back and get a refund...
Title: Re: ZyXel VMG8324-B10A Preliminary findings.
Post by: les-70 on May 16, 2014, 07:15:47 PM
   Hold on --the DSl light is green on adsl but orange on vdsl2.   Steady orange means you have a sync.
Title: Re: ZyXel VMG8324-B10A Preliminary findings.
Post by: MrTAToad on May 16, 2014, 07:46:26 PM
Oh yes - got a sync (well, it displays the up/down status).  Just can't do anything internet related (it also states that there is a problem connecting).
Title: Re: ZyXel VMG8324-B10A Preliminary findings.
Post by: les-70 on May 16, 2014, 08:12:53 PM
  I can only suggest checking the guide settings and your isp login details.  If says it can't connect the problem should be there. 
Title: Re: ZyXel VMG8324-B10A Preliminary findings.
Post by: MrTAToad on May 16, 2014, 08:41:14 PM
However, the username and password are correct...
Title: Re: ZyXel VMG8324-B10A Preliminary findings.
Post by: Ronski on May 16, 2014, 08:57:42 PM
MrTAToad, you are using username@plusdsl.net as the username, rather than just username?
Title: Re: ZyXel VMG8324-B10A Preliminary findings.
Post by: loonylion on May 16, 2014, 09:20:41 PM
I had a similar issue, turned out that the OR engineer hadn't properly signed the job off and as a result the PN system wasn't recognising the logon. Plusnet were able to fix it over the phone.
Title: Re: ZyXel VMG8324-B10A Preliminary findings.
Post by: MrTAToad on May 16, 2014, 09:40:13 PM
MrTAToad, you are using username@plusdsl.net as the username, rather than just username?
Oh yes - tried both actually...

Internet connection with the standard Technicolour router is fine.  The only think I can think of is that the Zxyel router can't handle some special characters (&) I use in my router password...
Title: Re: ZyXel VMG8324-B10A Preliminary findings.
Post by: Ronski on May 16, 2014, 10:28:49 PM
Surely it's just a case of changing your password to test that theory?
Title: Re: ZyXel VMG8324-B10A Preliminary findings.
Post by: MrTAToad on May 16, 2014, 11:41:03 PM
Then the Technicolour router will need changing too, along with the PlusNet account stuff and everything...
Title: Re: ZyXel VMG8324-B10A Preliminary findings.
Post by: kitz on May 16, 2014, 11:50:59 PM
You werent using firefox were you?   
Title: Re: ZyXel VMG8324-B10A Preliminary findings.
Post by: MrTAToad on May 17, 2014, 12:36:56 AM
Nope...

I changed the Plus.Net password (and it seems to have caused "problems" with the Technicolour router), but the Zxyel one seems to now be working...
Title: Re: ZyXel VMG8324-B10A Preliminary findings.
Post by: kitz on May 17, 2014, 12:56:41 AM
Quote
it seems to have caused "problems" with the Technicolour router), but the Zxyel one seems to now be working...

I just had a thought, the first time I attempted to connect, the network icon in my sys tray told me that I didnt have an internet connection.. when I really did.   I think Windows gets a bit confused if you swap between a combined dsl router and a router with a separate modem.   Its probably something to do with how it sees the network routing.

If you go to the network troubleshooter and let it search for and fix problems, that may solve it.  However I actually made a separate network connection from scratch, so I now have 'Network 1' for the TG582n & HG612 modem and 'Network 2' for the ZyXel.
Title: Re: ZyXel VMG8324-B10A Preliminary findings.
Post by: MrTAToad on May 17, 2014, 12:38:32 PM
The Technicolour one was stating that there were authentication problems - however it always takes a long time to get itself sorted.
Title: Re: ZyXel VMG8324-B10A Preliminary findings.
Post by: MrTAToad on May 18, 2014, 12:16:49 PM
It all seems to be working fine - the only slight problem is that one of the households Samsung Android devices wont connect.  I suspect its because the router is using a mixed mode - and it is :)
Title: Re: ZyXel VMG8324-B10A Preliminary findings.
Post by: MrTAToad on May 19, 2014, 10:18:47 PM
I will be sending it back - the number of times the router sticks on a "Loading" screen is way too many.  I also had it hang on me too...
Title: Re: ZyXel VMG8324-B10A Preliminary findings.
Post by: kitz on May 19, 2014, 10:41:25 PM
I will be sending it back - the number of times the router sticks on a "Loading" screen is way too many.  I also had it hang on me too...

Thats a shame :/

I havent experienced that issue, I know it can be a bit slow at login.  ie it takes 2 seconds rather than immediate, but Ive never had it stick or hang.
Title: Re: ZyXel VMG8324-B10A Preliminary findings.
Post by: MrTAToad on May 19, 2014, 11:08:37 PM
It looks like the constant hanging is due to the Web Interface not being totally compatible with Windows 8 - on my XP laptop everything is okay.  The only problem is the desktop is easier to reach than the laptop.

In which case the problem is sorted - wont need to return it now then :)  Unless it totally locks up again.

Which is has done... So it will be sent back...  What was more annoying is that it managed to reset the ISP password back to the one I used originally - which it had trouble with...
Title: Re: ZyXel VMG8324-B10A Preliminary findings.
Post by: les-70 on May 27, 2014, 12:56:51 PM
  It is probably not needed by most people but having telnet'd in to the VMG8324-B10A you get a restricted command set.  However typing and entering "echo && bash" gets a full shell.  Probably obvious to those of you who are Linux orientated.
Title: Re: ZyXel VMG8324-B10A Preliminary findings.
Post by: kitz on May 27, 2014, 01:39:13 PM
Quote
you get a restricted command set.

Did you happen to notice just how restricted?   I mentioned access to the full broadcom shell using > echo && bash in my review (under the hood section). 
I also had a look at the cmds available without logging into the full shell and as far as I could see, most of the commands needed for every day things and configuration were available. 

The only echo && bash command Ive used was to get the chipset info as documented here (http://forum.kitz.co.uk/index.php?topic=13769.msg259371#msg259371).   
I also had to enter the full shell to mount the drive to copy across the firmware via usb - Details how to do that here (http://forum.kitz.co.uk/index.php?topic=13769.msg259520;topicseen#msg259520).
Title: Re: ZyXel VMG8324-B10A Preliminary findings.
Post by: les-70 on June 01, 2014, 03:23:55 PM
  I am about to take on Zyxel support over the performance of my device.  I can connect on my line with a HG612 in the usual way with no speed cap, the errors rates are then within the range where people report staying on fast path i,e, 20-30 Es/hour.   If I connect the Zyxel in the same way the error rates generally go up by x5 to over 100 ES/hour and the very large bursts of errors that also occur, are not as I initially thought, a one off but about once an hour.  The Zyxel does however usually connects a couple of Mb/s faster.  Today I did a speed capped comparison with both running at roughly where interleaving puts me if it switched on.  i.e. both synced at 66Mb/s sync.   The Zyxel then gives me about 12 ES/hour whilst before and after the test the Hg612 gives about 3 ES/hour so the error rate difference remains even though now reduced.  (3/hour is a low value but 6-7 is normal 24 hour figure with that speed cap)

 I have a acl rule allowing TB quality meter (see below) this shows the last Zyxel insertion for just over an hour today.  (The router but not modem was off overnight and hence the larger red block) the Zyxel always seems to show over 80% packet loss.  It is the narrower red block with the "comb" at the bottom. This may just be my settings?? but I can't see what could be wrong. 

  Has anyone else running a Zyxel looked at error rates or the ping graphs at TB.?  I wonder if it is a general issue showing up more on my connection or whether I have a dodgy Zyxel
Title: Re: ZyXel VMG8324-B10A Preliminary findings.
Post by: kitz on June 01, 2014, 06:05:53 PM
Quote
Has anyone else running a Zyxel looked at error rates or the ping graphs at TB.?

I hadn't...  but I have now :(

(http://www.thinkbroadband.com/ping/share-thumb/e5af272390d73fda23325f2c2cc08a39-01-06-2014.png) (http://www.thinkbroadband.com/ping/share/e5af272390d73fda23325f2c2cc08a39-01-06-2014.html)

I just realised that dslstats had crashed yesterday so I dont have any stats from that. 
I havent particularly seen anything unusual in HG612 modem stats for errors  (see attached).   
Every day I get a lot of bitswapping starting at about 6pm, but that has been going on for a long time.  I will attach a bitswap graph because it does seem to be centred around an hourly thing.

I will also attach a 7day full monty.

If you want or need anything else, let me know.
Title: Re: ZyXel VMG8324-B10A Preliminary findings.
Post by: les-70 on June 01, 2014, 06:21:35 PM
  Thanks for that.  Are, as I assume, your error rates are similar to those that you had before with an HG612? If so it looks like mine is faulty. 

 On the ping test your connection looks busy, my one or two yellow spikes are all speed tests.  I just don't understand my packet loss as speed test results with the Zyxel were fairly normal, I don't think I have any setting issues. 

  Edit :- if your running a web server on your PC the ping graph is what you would expect. see TB BQM FAQ
Title: Re: ZyXel VMG8324-B10A Preliminary findings.
Post by: kitz on June 01, 2014, 07:56:43 PM
  Thanks for that.  Are, as I assume, your error rates are similar to those that you had before with an HG612?


Ive just had a look through my old HG612 files and there isnt much difference, sometimes a bit more, sometimes a bit less. I cant really see anything much different before and after using the zyxel. 
Ive just chosen one completely at random to attach so you can see too.


>>  if your running a web server on your PC the ping graph

Im not atm... so not sure where the additional traffic is coming from - hence the surprise when I saw the increased latency.   
I have however been doing some hefty site backups and transfers over the last week due to a humongous amount of needed security updates that are being released atm for various software..  but that doesnt account for today.
The other other thing I can think is the weird routing issue I have atm, where traffic to the site is going via France...  but a trace to tbb looks fine and unaffected.   
Title: Re: ZyXel VMG8324-B10A Preliminary findings.
Post by: les-70 on June 07, 2014, 10:46:05 AM
  Well mine has gone back for a refund.   :(  It is worth saying that Zyxel and the supplier were helpful in dealing with this.  It is a shame, it did give a higher sync, but I assume that it was faulty -- with its ability to turn a stable HG612 connection into one with average errors 5 times higher and the odd re-sync it was never going to be used by me.  I never used it for long enough to resolve the dreadful ping packet loss.  I had added an ACL rule only allowing the TBB IP BQM address access and I wonder whether unrestricted access would have done better.   Using Chrome in XP the web gui did sometimes get fully stuck on pages of the gui.  This was mostly a minor nuisance but it seemed to favour getting stuck on the initial page so even access to see the device status sometimes needed a few try's.

   I liked many aspects of it so maybe in future when new firmware and perhaps a revised hardware is out I will try again.
Title: Re: ZyXel VMG8324-B10A Preliminary findings.
Post by: kitz on June 20, 2014, 09:18:01 AM
Its a shame it didnt work out for you.  Ive been using a different router for the past few weeks and seriously couldnt wait to put the Zyxel back on.
 
>> I never used it for long enough to resolve the dreadful ping packet loss.

Im not seeing the same issue and my TBB graphs are now more like Id expect them to be now that the Level3 routing issue going via Paris has been resolved.

(http://www.thinkbroadband.com/ping/share-thumb/9b3635e35dfd06a5a1bf3c05be8ee083-20-06-2014.png) (http://www.thinkbroadband.com/ping/share/9b3635e35dfd06a5a1bf3c05be8ee083-20-06-2014.html)

>>  Using Chrome in XP the web gui did sometimes get fully stuck on pages of the gui. 

I agree there can be some slowness, but the only page I notice it on is the initial login page where the login button can take a wee bit longer to appear, but touch wood Ive never had any of the pages stick on me.   I mostly use win7 pro & FF to access the GUI, but atm Im using a win 8.1 lappy via chrome and no issues there either.
Title: Re: ZyXel VMG8324-B10A Preliminary findings.
Post by: les-70 on June 20, 2014, 01:30:28 PM
  Out of interest have you enabled a general ping response on the wan?  I used a rule to only allow the  IP of TBB BQM to get a response.
Title: Re: ZyXel VMG8324-B10A Preliminary findings.
Post by: kitz on June 20, 2014, 02:28:18 PM
No I didnt set a specific rule for TBB, just enabled ICMP on the WAN.
Title: Re: ZyXel VMG8324-B10A Preliminary findings.
Post by: les-70 on June 20, 2014, 06:59:11 PM
   I suspect that my having a specific rule for TBB may have been the cause of my poor ping responses.  I did try it once with it just enabled on the wan and although I did not look carefully I did not notice notice any trouble then.

 Years ago I used to just enable ICMP on the WAN but I noticed that it caused a lot of port scans and probes to be directed at me each day. The probes should of course be blocked OK but I feel happier being fully hidden from such things.
Title: Re: ZyXel VMG8324-B10A Preliminary findings.
Post by: kitz on June 20, 2014, 07:54:20 PM
I normally enable it anyhow.  Seen too many problems in the past with PMTUD failing to work when ICMP is blocked.
Title: Re: ZyXel VMG8324-B10A Preliminary findings.
Post by: Chrysalis on June 21, 2014, 01:46:29 AM
not convinced it was faulty, after many years of experience of dsl I learned that whilst one modem can be good for person A it may suck for person B, that is because every line is different.  Different modems handle different lines better.

Also isnt kitz on a diff vendor dslam to you les? so the dslam chipset compatability may be a factor as well.
Title: Re: ZyXel VMG8324-B10A Preliminary findings.
Post by: les-70 on June 21, 2014, 07:30:47 AM
  I have an ECI dslam which is, I think, the same as Kitz.   I once bought a lot of 3 DG834g's, none were in my view faulty, but there was a big variation in the dsl performance with same firmware.  Modems do vary and I suspect suspect the analog input side and A/D conversion may be the main source of variation. No two analog devices are ever identical in performance.  It is hard to say that my Zyxel was  definitely "faulty" but the dsl side was clearly substandard re error rates compared with the other dsl devices I have tried. I doubt most here would put up with a 5 fold increase in the error rates coupled with odd daytime resyncs where none occurred before.  The other niggles I had are most likely firmware related.
Title: Re: ZyXel VMG8324-B10A Preliminary findings.
Post by: Chrysalis on June 21, 2014, 02:28:15 PM
I think kitz is hauwei dslam, and yes I wouldnt put up with 5x error rates like that either you did the right thing to switch back.  The ECI dslams seem much more finicky than the hauwei's.
Title: Re: ZyXel VMG8324-B10A Preliminary findings.
Post by: burakkucat on June 21, 2014, 05:07:26 PM
Hmm . . . I have a strong suspicion that Kitz's VDSL2 service is via an ECI equipped cabinet.  :-\
Title: Re: ZyXel VMG8324-B10A Preliminary findings.
Post by: kitz on June 21, 2014, 06:37:56 PM
Yep Im on an ECI cab.

These are my stats from the ZyXel

Quote
dsl info --stats
adsl: ADSL driver and PHY status
Status: Showtime
Last Retrain Reason:    0
Last initialization procedure status:   0
Max:    Upstream rate = 30803 Kbps, Downstream rate = 89932 Kbps
Bearer: 0, Upstream rate = 20000 Kbps, Downstream rate = 79987 Kbps

Link Power State:       L0
Mode:                   VDSL2 Annex B
VDSL2 Profile:          Profile 17a
TPS-TC:                 PTM Mode
Trellis:                U:ON /D:ON
Line Status:            No Defect
Training Status:        Showtime
                Down            Up
SNR (dB):        8.4             12.6
Attn(dB):        0.0             0.0
Pwr(dBm):        14.3            5.6

                        VDSL2 framing
                        Bearer 0
MSGc:           18              150
B:              239             236
M:              1               1
T:              23              5
R:              0               16
S:              0.0955          0.3771
L:              20104           5410
D:              1               1
I:              240             255
N:              240             255

                        Counters
                        Bearer 0
OHF:            305775192               407799
OHFErr:         2392            10
RS:             0               757628
RSCorr:         0               255
RSUnCorr:       0               0

Which has now been up for 5 days 20hrs, with a very nice flat-lined SNRm

Compare with the HG612

Quote
xdslcmd info --stats
xdslcmd: ADSL driver and PHY status
Status: Showtime
Retrain Reason:   0
Max:   Upstream rate = 30854 Kbps, Downstream rate = 86204 Kbps
Path:   0, Upstream rate = 20000 Kbps, Downstream rate = 79999 Kbps

Link Power State:   L0
Mode:         VDSL2 Annex B
VDSL2 Profile:      Profile 17a
TPS-TC:         PTM Mode
Trellis:      U:ON /D:ON
Line Status:      No Defect
Training Status:   Showtime
      Down      Up
SNR (dB):    7.6       13.1
Attn(dB):    0.0       0.0
Pwr(dBm):    14.3       6.3
         VDSL2 framing
         Path 0
B:      239      236
M:      1      1
T:      23      5
R:      0      16
S:      0.0955      0.3771
L:      20107      5410
D:      1      1
I:      240      255
N:      240      255
         Counters
         Path 0
OHF:      2283204036      2739102
OHFErr:      26919      38
RS:      0      4292676
RSCorr:      0      3222
RSUnCorr:   0      0

and now compare with a router with a Lantiq based chipset (this is all the info I can give)

Quote
#adsl show info

INDEX=1
{
enable=1
status=Up
modulationType=VDSL2
CurrSupportLinkType=2
lineEncoding=
allowedProfiles=
currentProfile=
dataPath=
interleaveDepth=0
lineNumber=0
upstreamCurrRate=20000
downstreamCurrRate=80000
upstreamMaxRate=29422
downstreamMaxRate=80000
upstreamNoiseMargin=124
downstreamNoiseMargin=59
upstreamAttenuation=0
downstreamAttenuation=167
upstreamPower=128
downstreamPower=65
ATURVendor=
ATURCountry=
ATUCVendor=
ATUCCountry=
totalStart=530671
showtimeStart=319
quarterHourStart=0

}
cmd:SUCC


Then its an absolute no brainer why I personally like the Zyxel so much. 
I would give the Billion a shot, but one of my important requirements is GbE ports.
Im not buying a separate GbE switch just to hook up in between the PC and the NAS.  The wifi is decent on the Zyxel, so I dont even need CAT5 now for the smartTV.
Title: Re: ZyXel VMG8324-B10A Preliminary findings.
Post by: Chrysalis on June 21, 2014, 06:49:33 PM
ok glad thats cleared up, in that case my opinion is kitz's line characteristics are just been handled better by the zyxel whilst les's are not.

assuming both of you had the same firmware version.

is there a cheaper version of zyxel with same modem chipset and firmware options? so e.g. like the hg612 which is small and cheap and useable as a modem only.
Title: Re: ZyXel VMG8324-B10A Preliminary findings.
Post by: kitz on June 21, 2014, 07:23:14 PM
Yep I think Les-70 was using the same firmware as I provided the ones I had. 

>> s there a cheaper version of zyxel with same modem chipset

Not sure - suspect the Billion may have, best checking with Les-70 on that.

The WMG8324 contains the latest BCM63168 (http://www.broadcom.com/products/Broadband-Carrier-Access/xDSL-CPE-Solutions/BCM63168) chipset with the 039 adsl_phy.

One thing has just struck me...  where did you buy yours from Les?   Over the past few months Ive had several PMs/emails from people asking for the latest firmware and most people have seen an improvement over the HG612.
Im not saying the router is perfect, because Ive detailed in this thread all the issues I had until putting on the latest firmware.. but afaik the only people that seem to have had problems are les and mrtoad
Title: Re: ZyXel VMG8324-B10A Preliminary findings.
Post by: les-70 on June 21, 2014, 09:43:58 PM
  I bought the Zyxel from Stuff-UK and have no complaints about their service.  I have used 4 Broadcom 63168 devices on my line now. An HG630, an HG658 the Zyxel with two firmwares and now a Billion 8800NL. The two  HG's both used an 037 adsl_phy, the Zyxel an 039 and Billion an 038.  All of them give me a sync about 1.5-2 Mb/s greater than an HG612 with 038.  I would expect that the speed increase to vary between lines and all except the Zyxel gave error rates roughly the same as the HG612 and possibly a little better.  I would also expect some variation in error rate performance between lines but the 5 fold increase seems just too far from anything I would expected possible without a fault. No one else seems to have any noticeable extra error rates with the Zyxel.

    I would be using the HG658 (I broke the HG630 trying get a serial port going -lifted some pcb strip with a 1mm drill while clearing a slighly blocked hole)  but only the devices with 038 or 039 adsl_phy's support max sync speed tweaks.  My attainable is currently varying by up to 20Mb/s depending on who round here has their modems switched on or is off on hols.  If I resync I prefer to ensure a safe sync at a speed compatible with the worst case.  I am also concerned that the DSLAM is likely to resync when the line at its best and may get very confused with these changes. 

   The Billion seems totally reliable so far, it just worked for me and my set up with everything boringly fine and good wireless.  It also uses so little power 3-4 watts that I have given up switching off at night myself.
Title: Re: ZyXel VMG8324-B10A Preliminary findings.
Post by: kitz on June 21, 2014, 11:02:57 PM
>> I bought the Zyxel from Stuff-UK

Cheers, was just wondering.  I dont know where mrtoad got his from. 
It may all be a moot point anyhow as I just noticed that both broadbandbuyer and stuff-uk are out of stock
Stuff-uks site said they will order on request.  Broadbandbuyer has just one 'B'grade which has been there for a few months now.
 
I did wonder if they were the same firm, but I cant find any link at all between them.   They are in different parts of the country.  Have different phone nos and use different payment carts.  Stuff-uk also seem to sell a broader range of items. So it looks like they are 2 entirely different companies although I havent looked that deep.

 
Title: Re: ZyXel VMG8324-B10A Preliminary findings.
Post by: Chrysalis on June 22, 2014, 03:25:07 AM
may be different firms but have the same supplier.

now days its common for these small stores to order from their supplier at same time customer orders so the website stock levels are the supplier stock not the retailer stock if that makes sense.

Last time I ordered from broadbandbuyer there was a delay where they blamed their supplier (it was listed as in stock).

I dont like the practice of companies pretending they have local stock when they dont so I decided not to use them again.
Title: Re: ZyXel VMG8324-B10A Preliminary findings.
Post by: manny2003 on July 21, 2014, 03:52:24 AM
Does anybody know how to:


Many thanks!
Title: Re: ZyXel VMG8324-B10A Preliminary findings.
Post by: dmcdonnell on July 22, 2014, 12:13:27 PM
Does anybody know how to:

  • recover the router's firmware in case of bad flash (is there any boot tftp procedure or similar)?
  • automate a command after the router startup. For instance to issue the "adsl configure --snr 10" command after each reboot

Many thanks!

1. See unbranding the VMG8324-B10 on how to flash a firmware from the bootloader via serial. http://forum.kitz.co.uk/index.php?topic=13939.msg262807#msg262807
2. I doubt it but ZyXel have released recently their ZyXEL AP Configurator which may be of use. (It runs under windoze which I do not have). http://www.zyxel.com/products_services/zyxel_ap_configurator.shtml?t=p#
Title: Re: ZyXel VMG8324-B10A Preliminary findings.
Post by: kitz on July 22, 2014, 01:02:05 PM
Quote
automate a command after the router startup. For instance to issue the "adsl configure --snr 10" command after each reboot

Try DSLstats which works with the VMG8324.  It has both an Advanced Tweak and Custom Commands tab in the configuration section.
Title: Re: ZyXel VMG8324-B10A Preliminary findings.
Post by: roseway on July 22, 2014, 01:25:04 PM
Quote
automate a command after the router startup. For instance to issue the "adsl configure --snr 10" command after each reboot

Try DSLstats which works with the VMG8324.  It has both an Advanced Tweak and Custom Commands tab in the configuration section.

Yes, it's probably not the best idea to issue that command after a reboot, because it will trigger another reboot. But you could use DSLstats' Advanced Tweak function instead of rebooting manually, then it will reboot and set the SNRM target in one go.
Title: Re: ZyXel VMG8324-B10A Preliminary findings.
Post by: manny2003 on July 23, 2014, 11:26:34 PM
1. See unbranding the VMG8324-B10 on how to flash a firmware from the bootloader via serial. http://forum.kitz.co.uk/index.php?topic=13939.msg262807#msg262807
2. I doubt it but ZyXel have released recently their ZyXEL AP Configurator which may be of use. (It runs under windoze which I do not have). http://www.zyxel.com/products_services/zyxel_ap_configurator.shtml?t=p#

Thank you very much dmcdonnell. So it is how I supposed, there is no other way than opening the router and using a serial.
For the AP Configurator, thank you very much for the info, it's good to know. In any case I doubt it will work without a running router, I mean in the case the router is bricked due to a bad flash. More or less all the constructors supply a tool or a procedure for uploading the firmware via tftp, in an emergency boot for instance... but apparentrly Zyxel doesn't care...

Try DSLstats which works with the VMG8324.  It has both an Advanced Tweak and Custom Commands tab in the configuration section.

Thank you kitz! I will dig into DSLstats and how I can install/use it.

Yes, it's probably not the best idea to issue that command after a reboot, because it will trigger another reboot. But you could use DSLstats' Advanced Tweak function instead of rebooting manually, then it will reboot and set the SNRM target in one go.

Thank you roseway. I think it should be ok since when I issue the command the router does not reboot, just restart the dsl connection.
Title: Re: ZyXel VMG8324-B10A Preliminary findings.
Post by: dmcdonnell on July 27, 2014, 05:41:01 PM
Boot log from Eircom F1000 (branded VMG8324-B10A) is here: http://pastebin.com/kaS2Md2D
Title: Re: ZyXel VMG8324-B10A Preliminary findings.
Post by: dmcdonnell on August 19, 2014, 09:00:54 PM
What experience have users had with Port Forwarding on this device? I am told it has issues on earlier firmwares.
Title: Re: ZyXel VMG8324-B10A Preliminary findings.
Post by: manny2003 on August 29, 2014, 11:34:34 AM
What experience have users had with Port Forwarding on this device? I am told it has issues on earlier firmwares.

I'm using the VMG8924 version of the router, but since the fw images are the same I think I can however share my experience.
I had and still have big issues with Port Forwarding since the ports become closed every time the router restart or reconnect to the DSL. I have this problem with all the firmwares I tried, AAKL4 et AAKL5 versions.
I would be happy to hear some other experiences if someone had the chance to test port forwarding.

Many thanks.
Title: Re: ZyXel VMG8324-B10A Preliminary findings.
Post by: broadstairs on August 29, 2014, 12:02:04 PM
What experience have users had with Port Forwarding on this device? I am told it has issues on earlier firmwares.

I'm using the VMG8924 version of the router, but since the fw images are the same I think I can however share my experience.
I had and still have big issues with Port Forwarding since the ports become closed every time the router restart or reconnect to the DSL. I have this problem with all the firmwares I tried, AAKL4 et AAKL5 versions.
I would be happy to hear some other experiences if someone had the chance to test port forwarding.

Many thanks.

That's interesting, I have just installed this router and have one port forwarded, as yet I've not had a re-sync or reboot since I set it up but will see what happens when a re-sync occurs, if I dont get one in a day or so I will force it (my line is normally stable and had been up 108 days without re-sync when I took it down to install this router).

Stuart
Title: Re: ZyXel VMG8324-B10A Preliminary findings.
Post by: manny2003 on August 29, 2014, 12:08:00 PM
What experience have users had with Port Forwarding on this device? I am told it has issues on earlier firmwares.

I'm using the VMG8924 version of the router, but since the fw images are the same I think I can however share my experience.
I had and still have big issues with Port Forwarding since the ports become closed every time the router restart or reconnect to the DSL. I have this problem with all the firmwares I tried, AAKL4 et AAKL5 versions.
I would be happy to hear some other experiences if someone had the chance to test port forwarding.

Many thanks.

That's interesting, I have just installed this router and have one port forwarded, as yet I've not had a re-sync or reboot since I set it up but will see what happens when a re-sync occurs, if I dont get one in a day or so I will force it (my line is normally stable and had been up 108 days without re-sync when I took it down to install this router).

Stuart
Thank-you for your feedback
So I will wait for some updates.

Sent from mobile (^_-)

Title: Re: ZyXel VMG8324-B10A Preliminary findings.
Post by: broadstairs on September 04, 2014, 08:13:24 AM
What experience have users had with Port Forwarding on this device? I am told it has issues on earlier firmwares.

I'm using the VMG8924 version of the router, but since the fw images are the same I think I can however share my experience.
I had and still have big issues with Port Forwarding since the ports become closed every time the router restart or reconnect to the DSL. I have this problem with all the firmwares I tried, AAKL4 et AAKL5 versions.
I would be happy to hear some other experiences if someone had the chance to test port forwarding.

Many thanks.

That's interesting, I have just installed this router and have one port forwarded, as yet I've not had a re-sync or reboot since I set it up but will see what happens when a re-sync occurs, if I dont get one in a day or so I will force it (my line is normally stable and had been up 108 days without re-sync when I took it down to install this router).

Stuart

Well I have just forced a re-sync and my port forwarding is still active. Bear in mind my router is one of the F1000 variety running the firmware 1.00(AAKL.4)b2 and not an original VMG8324-B10A.

Stuart
Title: Re: ZyXel VMG8324-B10A Preliminary findings.
Post by: kitz on September 04, 2014, 08:56:54 AM
Quote
of the F1000 variety running the firmware 1.00(AAKL.4)b2 and not an original VMG8324-B10A

Thanks Stuart. 
Title: Re: ZyXel VMG8324-B10A Preliminary findings.
Post by: manny2003 on September 04, 2014, 09:48:32 AM
What experience have users had with Port Forwarding on this device? I am told it has issues on earlier firmwares.

I'm using the VMG8924 version of the router, but since the fw images are the same I think I can however share my experience.
I had and still have big issues with Port Forwarding since the ports become closed every time the router restart or reconnect to the DSL. I have this problem with all the firmwares I tried, AAKL4 et AAKL5 versions.
I would be happy to hear some other experiences if someone had the chance to test port forwarding.

Many thanks.

That's interesting, I have just installed this router and have one port forwarded, as yet I've not had a re-sync or reboot since I set it up but will see what happens when a re-sync occurs, if I dont get one in a day or so I will force it (my line is normally stable and had been up 108 days without re-sync when I took it down to install this router).

Stuart

Well I have just forced a re-sync and my port forwarding is still active. Bear in mind my router is one of the F1000 variety running the firmware 1.00(AAKL.4)b2 and not an original VMG8324-B10A.

Stuart
Thanks for the feedback!

Sent from mobile (^_-)

Title: Re: ZyXel VMG8324-B10A Preliminary findings.
Post by: dmcdonnell on September 04, 2014, 10:19:46 AM
I raised the port forwarding issue following requests from F1000 users in Ireland. I did a series of (basic) tests on the unlocked F1000, using nmap to scan the WAN interface and netcat as a listener on my linux box. Port forwarding seems to work exactly as it should.
Title: Re: ZyXel VMG8324-B10A Preliminary findings.
Post by: kitz on September 04, 2014, 12:50:11 PM

I'm using the VMG8924 version of the router, but since the fw images are the same I think I can however share my experience.
I had and still have big issues with Port Forwarding since the ports become closed every time the router restart or reconnect to the DSL. I have this problem with all the firmwares I tried, AAKL4 et AAKL5 versions.
I would be happy to hear some other experiences if someone had the chance to test port forwarding.

Many thanks.

Yes they do appear to share the same f/w...  however I notice that you mention a AAKL5 version on your VMG8924.   May I ask where that came from... and if you know what its supposed to correct.

Zyxel still only appear to be offering AAKL0 C0 via their website. 
afaik I was the first to get AAKL4(b2) - which for me was stable.   ZyXel forced my hand in passing on this version only because their own support didnt make it available to the public http://forum.kitz.co.uk/index.php?topic=13930.0

AAKL4(b2) is the version which Stuart is using on his F1000 and Im using on myVMG8324.   The AAKL4 version you tried is that the same one available here (http://forum.kitz.co.uk/index.php?topic=13930.0)?

Code: [Select]
ZyXEL VMG8924-B10AV1.00(AAKL.4)b2
Supported Platforms:
ZyXEL VMG8924-B10A & VMG8324-B10A
Title: Re: ZyXel VMG8324-B10A Preliminary findings.
Post by: manny2003 on September 04, 2014, 05:59:56 PM

I'm using the VMG8924 version of the router, but since the fw images are the same I think I can however share my experience.
I had and still have big issues with Port Forwarding since the ports become closed every time the router restart or reconnect to the DSL. I have this problem with all the firmwares I tried, AAKL4 et AAKL5 versions.
I would be happy to hear some other experiences if someone had the chance to test port forwarding.

Many thanks.

Yes they do appear to share the same f/w...  however I notice that you mention a AAKL5 version on your VMG8924.   May I ask where that came from... and if you know what its supposed to correct.

Zyxel still only appear to be offering AAKL0 C0 via their website. 
afaik I was the first to get AAKL4(b2) - which for me was stable.   ZyXel forced my hand in passing on this version only because their own support didnt make it available to the public http://forum.kitz.co.uk/index.php?topic=13930.0

AAKL4(b2) is the version which Stuart is using on his F1000 and Im using on myVMG8324.   The AAKL4 version you tried is that the same one available here (http://forum.kitz.co.uk/index.php?topic=13930.0)?

Code: [Select]
ZyXEL VMG8924-B10AV1.00(AAKL.4)b2
Supported Platforms:
ZyXEL VMG8924-B10A & VMG8324-B10A

Hi kitz,
the AAKL5.b3 and now C0 comes directly from the support. They never publish the new fw version, I don't know why, but since I had a lot of bugs me and a couple of person I know from some other forums we are in touch with the support that sometime send us a new release as a reply to our complains.

The version in you post AAKL.4b2 seems to be the same I used before 4.C0 and then 5.b2 and 5.C0 now. From the 4 to 5 version there are a quite big changelog, but at the moment I can't find it. I will eventually post it if I do.

In the meanwhile I point you to one of our last discussion on the forum where I had already post you these firmwares in case you wanted to take a look to them. ;)
http://forum.kitz.co.uk/index.php?topic=14084.msg264981#msg264981 (http://forum.kitz.co.uk/index.php?topic=14084.msg264981#msg264981)
Title: Re: ZyXel VMG8324-B10A Preliminary findings.
Post by: kitz on September 04, 2014, 06:16:07 PM
Thank you - somehow I'd missed your post in that thread.   
Ive updated the info on the firmware thread (http://forum.kitz.co.uk/index.php?topic=13930.0)
Title: Re: ZyXel VMG8324-B10A Preliminary findings.
Post by: dmcdonnell on September 05, 2014, 12:06:46 PM
@manny2003 and Kitz, thank you for making these firmwares available.

I tried to flash both on an unlocked f1000 from the web interface and got an invalid image message, not all together surprising if the firmwares are labelled for the VMG8924.

I succeeded in flashing from the CFE (bootloader). After reboot, I tried to login via the web interface, username admin, and got a message saying that user could not login for 15 mins. After 15 mins, I logged in fine.

Nothing to report as yet in terms of performance or functionality. I look forward to reading the firmware change logs in due course.
Title: Re: ZyXel VMG8324-B10A Preliminary findings.
Post by: kitz on September 05, 2014, 06:34:35 PM
Thanks dmcdonnell, so basically the 2 later versions wont install on the VMG8324/F1000?

I'd assumed they would as previous firmwares normally say
Code: [Select]
Supported Platforms:
ZyXEL VMG8924-B10A & VMG8324-B10A

I havent tried them myself as I find the version Im using stable, plus I dont have the ZyXel on atm.
Title: Re: ZyXel VMG8324-B10A Preliminary findings.
Post by: dmcdonnell on September 05, 2014, 07:12:29 PM
As I only have the F1000, I can't comment on the OEM device.

I will investigate further as time allows. The CFE makes no complaint what so ever about the new firmware. I have limited info on the CFE feature bits and nothing directly related to this model. The installed firmware must reference the CFE feature bit settings, which include an image check bit. The CFE may ignore the image check because engineering debug mode is in operation. I am guessing that bit is set on the F1000. I would expect it to be set on the OEM device simply to prevent flashing of any old firmware that would have a high possibility of totally bricking the device.

I am also wondering about the 15 min wait before login. Telnet or ssh may be up an the WAN during that interval. That has been seen before.
Title: Re: ZyXel VMG8324-B10A Preliminary findings.
Post by: dmcdonnell on September 05, 2014, 08:14:24 PM
From a serial log of a failed flash of each of the latest firmwares on an unbranded F1000.

Code: [Select]
httpd:error:225.432:verifyModelId_MSTC:145:Check model from TAG is different with MRD
httpd:error:225.432:do_upload_pre_MSTC:1263:invalid image model id [content-len=23091669 imageLen=23091426]

and

Code: [Select]
httpd:error:299.757:verifyModelId_MSTC:145:Check model from TAG is different with MRD
httpd:error:299.757:do_upload_pre_MSTC:1263:invalid image model id [content-len=23222752 imageLen=23222509]

I flashed firmware V100AAKL4C0 from cfe and booted, logged in to the web interface and attempted to reflash the same firmware. Got the same error as above.

Repeated the process for firmware V100AAKL5b3 with the same result.

It will be interesting to see how owners of OEM devices get on. I should very much like to see the output of the ATSH cfe command on an OEM device.
Title: Re: ZyXel VMG8324-B10A Preliminary findings.
Post by: manny2003 on September 06, 2014, 12:41:28 PM
@manny2003 and Kitz, thank you for making these firmwares available.

I tried to flash both on an unlocked f1000 from the web interface and got an invalid image message, not all together surprising if the firmwares are labelled for the VMG8924.

I succeeded in flashing from the CFE (bootloader). After reboot, I tried to login via the web interface, username admin, and got a message saying that user could not login for 15 mins. After 15 mins, I logged in fine.

Nothing to report as yet in terms of performance or functionality. I look forward to reading the firmware change logs in due course.

Hi dmcdonnell,
yes the login 15 min issue is a known problem of the 5 version of the fw. Everytime you reboot the firmware the admin user is locked out for this 15 min. The workaround is to use the supervisor user or instead to create a new administration user the first time you grant back the access with a new name. This new account will be not affected by the problem the next reboot. Hope they will release a new version soon. The support told me they would have a new one in the next few weeks. :)
Title: Re: ZyXel VMG8324-B10A Preliminary findings.
Post by: dmcdonnell on September 06, 2014, 12:51:34 PM
@manny2003

Thank you for the update on the login issue. If you locate the change log for the firmwares, I would be most grateful.
Title: Re: ZyXel VMG8324-B10A Preliminary findings.
Post by: manny2003 on September 06, 2014, 03:39:32 PM
@manny2003

Thank you for the update on the login issue. If you locate the change log for the firmwares, I would be most grateful.

All I have about changelogs... until the penultimate firmware:
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/72648012/VMG%208924%20Changelogs.pdf (https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/72648012/VMG%208924%20Changelogs.pdf)
Title: Re: ZyXel VMG8324-B10A Preliminary findings.
Post by: kitz on September 06, 2014, 07:18:03 PM
Have you guys seen that theres now a  V1.00(AAKL.5)C0 version - see Jeroens post here (http://forum.kitz.co.uk/index.php?topic=13930.msg268942#msg268942)

@manny2003

Thank you for the update on the login issue. If you locate the change log for the firmwares, I would be most grateful.

Full changelog [up to V1.00(AAKL.5)C0 ] attached.
Title: Re: ZyXel VMG8324-B10A Preliminary findings.
Post by: Jeroen06 on September 08, 2014, 08:05:22 AM
Are you also experiencing an high idle load with this modem? When running an telnet session and using the 'echo && bash' command to get into the bash shell you also can run 'top' to monitor your CPU.
When the modem is doing nothing (I think?) the idle load is for example: 1.50 1.34 0.87, which I find really high when there is barely any traffic. I also closed down the browser window with the web interface of the modem and this helps a bit. Maybe this is because it is an dual-core SoC (BCM63168)?
Title: Re: ZyXel VMG8324-B10A Preliminary findings.
Post by: roseway on September 08, 2014, 08:12:57 AM
I just did a quick check on my Billion 7800DXL (on an ADSL2+ connection) and the idle load is around 1.72 1.63 1.63 , so your values don't look particularly high.
Title: Re: ZyXel VMG8324-B10A Preliminary findings.
Post by: kitz on September 09, 2014, 12:58:12 PM
These are mine
1.21, 1.11, 1.02.   

CPU at 9.5% when 'idle' but telnet and GUI are open and refreshing stats.
Title: Re: ZyXel VMG8324-B10A Preliminary findings.
Post by: manny2003 on September 10, 2014, 02:03:58 PM
Have you guys seen that theres now a  V1.00(AAKL.5)C0 version - see Jeroens post here (http://forum.kitz.co.uk/index.php?topic=13930.msg268942#msg268942)

@manny2003

Thank you for the update on the login issue. If you locate the change log for the firmwares, I would be most grateful.

Thanks, I missed these release notes for the 5.C0 ;)
Full changelog [up to V1.00(AAKL.5)C0 ] attached.
Title: Re: ZyXel VMG8324-B10A Preliminary findings.
Post by: kitz on September 22, 2014, 05:50:34 PM
btw.. I happened to notice the other day that KC are offering these routers to their customers for a pretty decent price of 90.  Unfortunately I couldnt see any way that non-customers could buy them because when I attempted to find more info it told me I was 'outside their area'.

I do notice though this morning that stuff UK have got further stock in @ 94.90 inc VAT
http://www.stuff-uk.net/p-1726433.aspx
Title: Re: ZyXel VMG8324-B10A Preliminary findings.
Post by: zuku on December 21, 2014, 07:50:12 PM
what DDNS providers have this router, does it have NO-IP.com?
Title: Re: ZyXel VMG8324-B10A Preliminary findings.
Post by: kitz on December 22, 2014, 10:46:06 PM
what DDNS providers have this router, does it have NO-IP.com?
I dont use DDNS anymore, but screen shot attached for the relevant config page.

It looks like it support no-ip and several others
Title: Re: ZyXel VMG8324-B10A Preliminary findings.
Post by: zuku on December 23, 2014, 10:42:48 AM
so it have what I'm looking for  :)
one more question it's possible to login to this router using telnet/SSH and tweak SNR for VDSL line:
adsl configure --snr ...

?
Title: Re: ZyXel VMG8324-B10A Preliminary findings.
Post by: kitz on December 23, 2014, 12:14:06 PM
The command is there and it works on adsl, but on VDSL the command is over-ridden by the BT DLM. 

The BToR DLM doesnt use SNRm as a configurable attribute (it uses banding and interleaving) and a default Target SNRm of 6dB is set on all lines, so although you can attempt to use it, it just gets over-ridden by the DSLAM. :/

You can however use adsl configure  --maxDataRate to adjust the banding downwards which will give you a higher SNRm.
Title: Re: ZyXel VMG8324-B10A Preliminary findings.
Post by: Ixel on December 23, 2014, 12:21:02 PM
The command is there and it works on adsl, but on VDSL the command is over-ridden by the BT DLM. 

The BToR DLM doesnt use SNRm as a configurable attribute (it uses banding and interleaving) and a default Target SNRm of 6dB is set on all lines, so although you can attempt to use it, it just gets over-ridden by the DSLAM. :/

You can however use adsl configure  --maxDataRate to adjust the banding downwards which will give you a higher SNRm.

Just to add in, I don't somehow believe that's quite the case. I believe that the snr parameter was only designed to work with ADSL connections, not VDSL2, so therefore has no effect. If someone has a VDSL2 connection (e.g. their own DSLAM or not BT's setup) and has successfully managed to get the snr parameter to function, fair enough then I'm wrong, but I have a feeling I'm not :P.

On the ASUS DSL-AC68U and the Fritzbox 7390, the SNRM offset (or target_snrm in the case of the ASUS) work fine. If BT's DLM (or DSLAM) were configured to prevent it then I'd have thought those two devices would've failed as well.
Title: Re: ZyXel VMG8324-B10A Preliminary findings.
Post by: Ronski on December 24, 2014, 08:17:31 AM
My ping had gone crazy again over the last few days, whilst the connection stats didn't change.

(http://www.thinkbroadband.com/ping/share-thumb/58209b7aa730b1e6d6564cb2372fa0bd-24-12-2014.png) (http://www.thinkbroadband.com/ping/share/58209b7aa730b1e6d6564cb2372fa0bd-24-12-2014.html)

A reboot of the router (around 7am) once again appears to have cured the problem, this is the second time this has happened.

Edit: I've now located the cause of the problem, and it was nothing to do with the modem/router.
Title: Re: ZyXel VMG8324-B10A Preliminary findings.
Post by: simoncraddock on December 24, 2014, 10:25:27 AM
The command is there and it works on adsl, but on VDSL the command is over-ridden by the BT DLM. 

The BToR DLM doesnt use SNRm as a configurable attribute (it uses banding and interleaving) and a default Target SNRm of 6dB is set on all lines, so although you can attempt to use it, it just gets over-ridden by the DSLAM. :/

You can however use adsl configure  --maxDataRate to adjust the banding downwards which will give you a higher SNRm.

Just to add in, I don't somehow believe that's quite the case. I believe that the snr parameter was only designed to work with ADSL connections, not VDSL2, so therefore has no effect. If someone has a VDSL2 connection (e.g. their own DSLAM or not BT's setup) and has successfully managed to get the snr parameter to function, fair enough then I'm wrong, but I have a feeling I'm not :P.

On the ASUS DSL-AC68U and the Fritzbox 7390, the SNRM offset (or target_snrm in the case of the ASUS) work fine. If BT's DLM (or DSLAM) were configured to prevent it then I'd have thought those two devices would've failed as well.

I guess it depends on how its implemented within the driver from Broadcomm, ECI etc.
Title: Re: ZyXel VMG8324-B10A Preliminary findings.
Post by: kitz on December 24, 2014, 09:17:23 PM
Quote
My ping had gone crazy again over the last few days, whilst the connection stats didn't change.

Eww that graph looks horrible..  and a reboot doesnt seem to have cured it as it looks awful again.
Out of interest what gateway are you on.   A reboot should have sorted it and/or put you on another gateway.

A couple of weeks ago I found one of the gateways appeared to be getting progressively worse in the evenings so I did a gateway hop - currently on ptw-ag01...  although thats not a proper indication as the gateways have several different endpoints.   

My router uptime is 26 days.   Just in case you didnt already know you can get a new ppp session to try another gateway without having to do a reboot or resync from

> Connection Status
> Status  (Arrow on RH side of page)
> Device Information > IPv4 Address > Disconnect
   Then wait a few seconds, refresh page and then click 'Connect'


Title: Re: ZyXel VMG8324-B10A Preliminary findings.
Post by: Ronski on December 25, 2014, 09:59:05 AM
Thanks Kitz, I found out the cause of the problem last night and have now cured it, it was nothing to do with the router.
Title: Re: ZyXel VMG8324-B10A Preliminary findings.
Post by: Chrysalis on December 25, 2014, 03:49:45 PM
what was it?
Title: Re: ZyXel VMG8324-B10A Preliminary findings.
Post by: Jasonkruys on January 01, 2015, 05:58:38 PM
Thanks Kitz, I found out the cause of the problem last night and have now cured it, it was nothing to do with the router.

Indeed, what did you do? I notice you came off interleaving on 28th - was that a DLM action or intervention by yourself resyncing your modem? Your line stats (as noted in the past) are very similar to mine, so am interested to know what has caused the change to move your line back to effectively what I was happy with on my line before DLM ruined it... seemingly forever lol.
Title: Re: ZyXel VMG8324-B10A Preliminary findings.
Post by: Ronski on January 01, 2015, 10:39:32 PM
The problem was caused by some software that never shut down properly.  The DLM relented on its own accord,  my line seems to flip between fast path and interleaved,  although its currently at the highest speed it's been since the very early days of when it went live. So sorry but no black magic here.
Title: Re: ZyXel VMG8324-B10A Preliminary findings.
Post by: Jasonkruys on January 02, 2015, 09:06:40 AM
Damn. Lol. Thanks Ronski.
Sent from my Lumia 1520 using Tapatalk (with free typos)
Title: Re: ZyXel VMG8324-B10A Preliminary findings.
Post by: idb on January 26, 2015, 07:01:16 PM
FWIW,

My VMG8324 just passed 100 days of uptime ;D , so they do seem quite stable!

I have now updated the firmware (to 7C0) so we shall see how that goes.

Ian
(hat tip to kitz for suggesting the router in the first place)

Title: Re: ZyXel VMG8324-B10A Preliminary findings.
Post by: Scottland on January 27, 2015, 09:10:08 PM
Sorry if this has already been asked - but does this support MER for use with Sky?
Title: Re: ZyXel VMG8324-B10A Preliminary findings.
Post by: kitz on January 28, 2015, 11:12:10 PM
I dont believe it does.   
Title: Re: ZyXel VMG8324-B10A Preliminary findings.
Post by: Scottland on January 29, 2015, 09:53:20 AM
Thanks, the ZyXel site for it says it supports:
MAC encapsulation routing/IPoE

But no mention anywhere of someone having had it work with Sky. I might shoot them an email to confirm.



Edit: Confirmed via email, no worky with Sky.
Title: Re: ZyXel VMG8324-B10A Preliminary findings.
Post by: kitz on January 30, 2015, 12:39:44 PM
Thanks for the confirmation.
Title: Re: ZyXel VMG8324-B10A Preliminary findings.
Post by: roseway on February 01, 2015, 10:54:44 AM
I've got my new VMG8324-B10A installed and working fine. I flashed it with the 6b1 firmware and set it up using Kitz' guide (http://www.kitz.co.uk/routers/zyxel_VMG8324-B10A_vdsl_setup.htm). There are several extra options in the newer firmware, but the guide still provides all the necessary information.

It's connected at a slightly lower downstream speed than the Billion 8800NL (79128 compared to 79787) and other stats are very similar. I'll give it at least a few days to see how it goes, and then I might try the 7c0 firmware (if idb doesn't report any serious issues).
Title: Re: ZyXel VMG8324-B10A Preliminary findings.
Post by: kitz on February 02, 2015, 11:25:34 AM
Thanks eric.   Im still on 6b1 which to me seems stable.  Current up time 66 days, but I have dropped ppp sessions purely to get on different PN pipes.

I did upgrade at one point to 6b4, but that version seemed to cause GUI & telnet lockups for both me and ronski and may have been something to do with when they first introduced the max 1 telnet session.   I rolled back, but I note that others have since upgraded to other versions and are not seeing the problem so it may just be specific to 6b4.  I wrote to Zyxel and they said they werent going to increase the max sessions,  but would attempt a work around fix for those using stat tools, so if they ever did and what the work around could be I dont know.    I havent tried 7c0 yet.
Title: Re: ZyXel VMG8324-B10A Preliminary findings.
Post by: Chrysalis on February 02, 2015, 12:33:52 PM
by the way kitz you got permission to point to my webspace if anyone asks for download links, as zyxel take theirs offline.
Title: Re: ZyXel VMG8324-B10A Preliminary findings.
Post by: kitz on February 02, 2015, 01:04:23 PM
Cheers chrys.  If you add a link in the relevant thread then I'll update the first post when I get back later. :)
Title: Re: ZyXel VMG8324-B10A Preliminary findings.
Post by: les-70 on February 02, 2015, 02:07:03 PM
  @roseway

  I would have posted before but I did not like to be a broken record on the topic of high ES rates with Xyxel VMG8324-B10A when used on lines with odd random noise events.  My own experience seems consistent with other experiences in that on my line the Xyxel was just a bit worse than an HG612 for errors most of the day but for the odd times of day when my line had random noise it performed badly with up to 3 times the error rate (ES) of the HG612 and perhaps 10 times the size of max CRC spike in a typical day.  Kitz for example seems to have quiet line on which CRC spikes are rare and she clearly gets good results.  Chrysalis has I think a better line than me but worse than Kitz's. He also found higher ES with the Zyxel but not as bad as me.

 Yours is the only other clear cut test of a Zyxel and from MDWS it looks like it may/will take you interleaved if you leave it connected!  That said your line has been noisy in the last week and as always you can't rule out a very bad day. 

   By comparison I found the Billion 8800NL acceptable but still about 50% worse for ES than an HG612 and for me all the 63168 modems don't do so well.  My ordering of performance starting with the lowest errors is HG612 - 8800NL - TT HG635 -Zyxel VMG8324-B10A.  My ordering is not based on odd bad days but about about 14 days of use of each modem in in/out tests with HG612 one day and the test case the next. It however a test for just my line.

 Later comment:  It is very hard to judge but once a big error rate occurred with the Zyxel  my impression was that it was slow to get back to normal and kept giving higher errors at times of day when I am sure the noise should have reduced.  It did however seem to recover after a few hours.

Title: Re: ZyXel VMG8324-B10A Preliminary findings.
Post by: Chrysalis on February 02, 2015, 02:16:12 PM
yeah, wow what has happened to roseway's line, since 30 jan large increase in ES.  Close call on the 30th, but today he is over 3k.  So DLM tommorow?

Wonder if will be a retransmission profile.
Title: Re: ZyXel VMG8324-B10A Preliminary findings.
Post by: roseway on February 02, 2015, 02:47:44 PM
There has been a general increase in my downstream ES values in recent days. I only installed the Zyxel yesterday, so I can't yet determine whether it's worse than the Billion or not on my line. It could just be that interference has increased - it's certainly the case that crosstalk has noticeably increased recently.
Title: Re: ZyXel VMG8324-B10A Preliminary findings.
Post by: les-70 on February 02, 2015, 03:09:56 PM
   Given the current high error rate - which may or may not in part be due to the Zyxel - I doubt that you will achieve a comparison.   Most probable is a DLM intervention. While I have a view on the Zyxel performance on fast path I have no idea which modem is better if interleaving hits.

   The current error rate is however looking like a significant increase of the worst errors seen in the last few weeks.
Title: Re: ZyXel VMG8324-B10A Preliminary findings.
Post by: roseway on February 02, 2015, 03:49:49 PM
With so many variables it's not possible to get a clearcut comparison, but it was my definite impression when I used the HG612 for a few days that its performance on my line was worse than the Billion (lower DS attainable rate, more errors) and putting the Billion back reversed this deterioration. After using the Zyxel for a while I'll be trying more recent firmware and then later I'll put the Billion back.

If DLM intervenes it won't be a big issue for me - I'm not a gamer, and a small reduction in speed won't have any noticeable effect on my life.
Title: Re: ZyXel VMG8324-B10A Preliminary findings.
Post by: Chrysalis on February 02, 2015, 04:10:40 PM
yeah sadly something changed on your line since the 30th, and as you said the zyxel wasnt put in place then.  Today is towering over the previous 3 days tho, I think you will get over 5k ES.
Title: Re: ZyXel VMG8324-B10A Preliminary findings.
Post by: les-70 on February 02, 2015, 04:21:18 PM
   Lets hope you see a G-inp rather than an interleave, or better the noise is affecting most lines and you get let off.  I also don't care much about any exact speed but even though I thought I would not notice interleaving I did notice it.  Web pages never load quite as sharply when it it is place.
Title: Re: ZyXel VMG8324-B10A Preliminary findings.
Post by: Chrysalis on February 02, 2015, 05:02:26 PM
yeah interleaving for me is noticeable, as it affects anything latency sensitive, web browsing is one of those things.

Hopefully it will be g.inp.
Title: Re: ZyXel VMG8324-B10A Preliminary findings.
Post by: roseway on February 03, 2015, 07:36:06 AM
No DLM intervention so far...

At 16:00 yesterday the ES rate plummeted, and the eventual total for the day was just below 4000.
Title: Re: ZyXel VMG8324-B10A Preliminary findings.
Post by: les-70 on February 03, 2015, 08:57:12 AM
  I just looked and it seems you were a bit premature in your report today.  I must say the DLM interventions in the day rather than in the  early hours seems a daft idea and might interfere with an online transaction.
Title: Re: ZyXel VMG8324-B10A Preliminary findings.
Post by: Chrysalis on February 03, 2015, 09:33:29 AM
so for the experts is g.inp on or off?
Title: Re: ZyXel VMG8324-B10A Preliminary findings.
Post by: roseway on February 03, 2015, 10:30:16 AM
New stats:

Code: [Select]
Stats recorded 03 Feb 2015 10:23:34

DSLAM/MSAN type:        BDCM:0xa41b / v0xa41b
Modem/router firmware:  AnnexA version - A2pv6F039i.d24e
DSL mode:                VDSL2 Profile 17a
Status:                  Showtime
Uptime:                  1 hours 35 min 33 sec
Resyncs:                0 (since 01 Feb 2015 10:20:32)

Downstream Upstream
Line attenuation (dB):  0.0 0.0
Signal attenuation (dB): Not monitored
Connection speed (kbps): 72179 19999
SNR margin (dB):        6.3 15.0
Power (dBm):            13.5 1.2
Interleave depth:        1413 1
INP:                    3.00 0

RSCorr/RS (%):          0.0044 0.0031
RSUnCorr/RS (%):        0.0000 0.0000
ES/hour:                166 2.34

I don't think it's G.INP.
Title: Re: ZyXel VMG8324-B10A Preliminary findings.
Post by: les-70 on February 03, 2015, 11:10:50 AM
  The Xyxel looks to be doing a good job on interleave with no ES so far.  Ronski went to fast path with a Xyxel so you may drop back to fast path sometime. 

 As you said the modem performance on fast path is impossible to evaluate from your experience so far. I do however remain suspicious that the Zyxel may have helped raise the ES when on fast path. 
Title: Re: ZyXel VMG8324-B10A Preliminary findings.
Post by: roseway on February 03, 2015, 11:28:06 AM
I did notice that the bitswapping was far lower with the Zyxel, and now it's almost at zero, so maybe that's a factor.
Title: Re: ZyXel VMG8324-B10A Preliminary findings.
Post by: roseway on February 11, 2015, 08:35:56 AM
For the moment I've taken down the VMG8324-B10A and put back the 8800NL. The reason is that the Zyxel loses its network connectivity after a few days. In my case I could no longer connect my Sky box (Catch-up TV), an internet radio, a laptop or a Raspberry Pi. All of these use DHCP, whereas the two PCs which continued working have fixed IP addresses. So I believe that it's a DHCP problem. This is using the 6b1 firmware.

I'll come back to this when I have more time, but for the moment it's the 8800NL for me.
Title: Re: ZyXel VMG8324-B10A Preliminary findings.
Post by: les-70 on February 11, 2015, 01:03:18 PM
It is most probable that you will get back fastpath in a few days time ( ~10days) as your ES error rate with interleaving has been close to zero.  Hopefully the Billion will then hang on fast path.
Title: Re: ZyXel VMG8324-B10A Preliminary findings.
Post by: roseway on February 11, 2015, 01:19:07 PM
I wonder whether DLM takes FECs into account in deciding whether to restore fastpath after it's applied interleaving? That would have some logic, because FECs are an indication of how much error correction is needed to maintain the low ES level.
Title: Re: ZyXel VMG8324-B10A Preliminary findings.
Post by: Ixel on February 11, 2015, 02:56:39 PM
I wonder whether DLM takes FECs into account in deciding whether to restore fastpath after it's applied interleaving? That would have some logic, because FECs are an indication of how much error correction is needed to maintain the low ES level.

It would be a bit stupid if DLM did, as FEC errors are also an unreliable statistic unfortunately. ASUS for example produce a stupidly high number. Different modems produce different amounts FEC errors (some significantly higher or lower than others). A high number FEC errors doesn't always mean that there's going to be a high number of CRC errors if the connection goes back to fastpath. Anyway, I thought I recall kitz saying that DLM doesn't consider FEC errors at some point?
Title: Re: ZyXel VMG8324-B10A Preliminary findings.
Post by: les-70 on February 11, 2015, 02:57:27 PM
 While nothing seems to be 100% certain re the DLM, the information available suggests that it does not consider FEC.  That said a number of people with low ES rates remain interleaved.  That may just be the DLM having a long memory of the line history?
Title: Re: ZyXel VMG8324-B10A Preliminary findings.
Post by: Ronski on February 11, 2015, 03:58:17 PM
For the moment I've taken down the VMG8324-B10A and put back the 8800NL. The reason is that the Zyxel loses its network connectivity after a few days. In my case I could no longer connect my Sky box (Catch-up TV), an internet radio, a laptop or a Raspberry Pi. All of these use DHCP, whereas the two PCs which continued working have fixed IP addresses. So I believe that it's a DHCP problem. This is using the 6b1 firmware.

I'll come back to this when I have more time, but for the moment it's the 8800NL for me.

Funny you should mention this, went home the other day and my phone wasn't connecting to the wifi, but my PC was fine. Then my PC stopped connecting to the internet. Couldn't access the router so had to reboot it, then all was well again. I'm sure I've had this one before.
Title: Re: ZyXel VMG8324-B10A Preliminary findings.
Post by: Chrysalis on February 11, 2015, 04:20:47 PM
ronski you not considered the 8800nl?
Title: Re: ZyXel VMG8324-B10A Preliminary findings.
Post by: Ronski on February 11, 2015, 05:59:52 PM
No I haven't, I'll carry on with the ZyXel for the time being.  I do need to update the firmware to the latest version on the ZyXel. That's something I need to do when I have a bit more time as everything needs setting up again, it's not simply a case of restoring a backup of the settings.
Title: Re: ZyXel VMG8324-B10A Preliminary findings.
Post by: jid on February 11, 2015, 09:10:26 PM
Likewise I had issues with the stability of the Zyxel so will be selling mine.
Title: Re: ZyXel VMG8324-B10A Preliminary findings.
Post by: NewtronStar on February 11, 2015, 10:18:18 PM
A high number FEC errors doesn't always mean that there's going to be a high number of CRC errors

The way I look at FEC's counts is that they are more sensative to noise on a line than CRC's as a forward error correction is the first line of defence against corrupted data and then it's over to CRC cyclic redundancy check to fix the corrupted data so if your getting 10,000 to over 90.000 FECs per minute this says your line has a medium amount of noise and i very much doubt the DLM would be able to use non-interleaved in this case
Title: Re: ZyXel VMG8324-B10A Preliminary findings.
Post by: WWWombat on February 12, 2015, 01:35:21 PM
I wonder whether DLM takes FECs into account in deciding whether to restore fastpath after it's applied interleaving? That would have some logic, because FECs are an indication of how much error correction is needed to maintain the low ES level.

Contrary to other people's opinions, I *do* think DLM pays attention to FEC counts in some way. I recently commented on someone's line (probably on TBB), where the line had an uptime of over 70 days, and their ES count in that time was still below 2800. That ought to have been a recipe for DLM de-intervention, right?

However, their FEC count was increasing at a hell of a rate - I don't recall exactly, but it might have been multiple-tens per second, possibly low-hundreds per second. This was enough to show that the current DLM settings were doing the perfect job.

I recall that SIN 498 requires that modems be able to report the FECS counter (FEC-seconds), which is something we never see in telnet or GUI output. I assume it works in the same way that ES's accumulate WRT the CRC counter. The fact it was required makes me suspicious that DLM does indeed use it for some purpose.
Title: Re: ZyXel VMG8324-B10A Preliminary findings.
Post by: Chrysalis on February 12, 2015, 03:00:37 PM
no for DLM to remove interleaving the ES has to be below 10% of the normal limit, so e.g. 280.

Also if they on the standard profile its just 140 allowed.
Title: Re: ZyXel VMG8324-B10A Preliminary findings.
Post by: burakkucat on February 12, 2015, 03:19:38 PM
Following on from Wombat's posting . . .

So you believe that the rate of change of the FEC count has a significance to the DLM process. That is something I have never previously considered but after a quick think, I would agree that it does seem to be feasible.

In the terms of, say, DSLstats it is the delta FEC count per minute.
Title: Re: ZyXel VMG8324-B10A Preliminary findings.
Post by: les-70 on February 12, 2015, 04:12:48 PM
no for DLM to remove interleaving the ES has to be below 10% of the normal limit, so e.g. 280.

Also if they on the standard profile its just 140 allowed.

   We are going off topic here but MDWS shows many people who have kept below 40ES/day and are still interleaved after at least 60 days below 40ES/day.  From MDWS it does not look like the 140 or 280 figures can be correct or simply apply. The number of people interleaved does not get really small until you get below 30ES/day.  As I said earlier some lines may be subject to a history which cautions the DLM but who knows.

In this day and age it is strange how you can buy a service with secret characteristics.  ???
Title: Re: ZyXel VMG8324-B10A Preliminary findings.
Post by: Chrysalis on February 12, 2015, 05:33:08 PM
Yeah I am not disputing that bit we dont know if the line he is on about is also below the 10% rate as well.
Title: Re: ZyXel VMG8324-B10A Preliminary findings.
Post by: WWWombat on February 12, 2015, 06:18:31 PM
no for DLM to remove interleaving the ES has to be below 10% of the normal limit, so e.g. 280.

Also if they on the standard profile its just 140 allowed.

Maybe I wasn't entirely clear.

The ES count of (just below 2800) accumulated over 70 days - so an average of 40 per day. So it seems highly likely that the majority of days would have been green, and highly unlikely (and, if on the speed profile, absolutely certain) there were any red days. In the middle, we could be looking at 10-20 orange days as a worst case - though there would be 50 green days to match.

What event is it that adds extra time onto (doubles?) the recovery mechanism (I've forgotten what it is called ... ILQ?) - an orange day, or a red day?

Following on from Wombat's posting . . .

So you believe that the rate of change of the FEC count has a significance to the DLM process. That is something I have never previously considered but after a quick think, I would agree that it does seem to be feasible.

In the terms of, say, DSLstats it is the delta FEC count per minute.

Hmmm. I had really been thinking that they convert FECS to an MTBE figure, in the same way they convert ES - and test that against some unknown thresholds.

However, when I look at line statistics for people, I tend to look at the ratio of RScorr to RSuncorr, and the ratio of RSuncorr to CRC. That gives you a feel for how effective the FEC process is being, and how many RS errors would convert to CRC errors if all error correction was taken away ... and it has always left me with a sneaky feeling that DLM *ought* to do something similar. Exactly how ... that's the quandary.
Title: Re: ZyXel VMG8324-B10A Preliminary findings.
Post by: burakkucat on February 12, 2015, 06:43:20 PM
Agreed.  :)

[way off topic]
And, if I may be so bold, I would like to regard you as a maestro of extracting sense from the vagaries of circuit statistics. Coupled with Kitz' scouring of publications and analysis of the possible (if not probable) behaviour of the various DLM processes, I believe that (when the time is ripe) the pair of you will be in a position to give a good description of the innermost workings of the various processes.  :angel:

(Hmm . . . b*cat has started to waffle.  :-X  Time to find my food bowl.)
[/way off topic]
Title: Re: ZyXel VMG8324-B10A Preliminary findings.
Post by: kitz on February 15, 2015, 12:23:07 AM
FWIW. I'm using Current Firmware Version: 1.00(AAKL.6)b1

I did have a brief stint with 6b2 (iirc) which was when they changed the max telnet sessions and I had a couple of lock ups because I use both dslstats and hg612 modem stats.  I rolled back to 6b1 and since then Ive been continually up without any problems.

Current up time is 78days (see attached)

Title: Re: ZyXel VMG8324-B10A Preliminary findings.
Post by: kitz on February 15, 2015, 12:40:27 AM
Re FEC's,  I think thats been well discussed in other threads.   Ive scoured and scoured any DLM docs I can get my hands on and the only parameters recorded by the element managers are MTBE and MTBR.  Ive further had it clarified via various sources that MTBE is only Err Secs and SES.  FEC is definitely not included.

[more off topic stuff]

However there is a state on the ILQ whereby some lines may require additional monitoring (http://www.kitz.co.uk/adsl/DLM_system.htm#DLM_additional_monitoring).   Facts about this are hazy atm, because Ive had to draw a halt to my research as Im now spending much of my days elsewhere and not getting home until very late at night.  But from what I can recall it seemed to imply that a previous very unstable line may not only have to go through the 'doubler' stage of green, but also may directly bypass normal monitoring at the element managers and be monitored directly via RAMBO, which also has the ability to record changes in SNRm to make sure it wasnt swinging too much.  I dont know how much of a swing it allows, but I suppose it could be possible to have a line that gets random burst type errors which could cause SNRm spikes sufficient to stop DLM making a reduction. These same bursts could also be causing the recording of a lot of FECs.