Kitz Forum

Broadband Related => FTTC and FTTP Issues => Topic started by: waltergmw on October 27, 2013, 03:07:13 PM

Title: Repeat fault interesting observations
Post by: waltergmw on October 27, 2013, 03:07:13 PM
Gentlefolk,

Very sadly Walter's re-trundling wheelbarrow has had to return for a second time to a notorious line of around 1 km where I look after 5 impoverished families. In the spring this year we had a long drawn struggle with a PlusNet VDSL 2 / 40 service that at best could achieve 18 Mbps but with others close by at over 22Mbps. I became involved as the line had been capped down to 10 Mbps then and sadly I'm back again chasing exactly the same problem yet again. This time BT Openreach & friends managed to restore the line to a higher capped rate of 15 Mbps which lasted for a couple of weeks before it once again was capped at 10 Mbps. This time we were permitted to ask for a site visit which took the engineer 1.5 DAYS to increase the Max rate to just over 20 Mbps but still with the cap at 10Mbps.
BT via PlusNet then told us there was a systems fault "in the exchange". At 13:01 last Thursday we noticed a very bad deterioration in the VDSL service rapidly followed by a complaint from the EU that he had lost dial tone. Quite preposterously this required me to raise a second phone fault as the test had indicated a one leg dis. But we were assured that BT would attempt to cure the. Phone  fault by tomorrow (Monday). We still await the pleasure of the next BT engineer hopefully re-crimping or re-punching the disconnected wire before we can carry on the battle with the VDSL fault just because the original engineer didn't have the resources or inclination to test the dial tone.

Surely in the near future the whole operating regime of VDSL services must be urgently reviewed ? If not, as more and more FTTCs are commissioned, an untenable and quite unacceptable national crisis will ensue.

In the meantime the one benefit we can obtain, thanks to the stirling work of Bald_eagles and pussy cats, are some very interesting results of running VDSL over an unbalanced half-pair.

Kind regards,
Walter
Title: Re: Repeat fault interesting observations
Post by: Bald_Eagle1 on October 27, 2013, 03:54:15 PM
I can't put my hands on the graphs from when the connection exceeded 20Mb, but I have attached a few montages showing the recent rapid decline.

Title: Re: Repeat fault interesting observations
Post by: Bald_Eagle1 on October 27, 2013, 03:57:39 PM
Just for good measure, I have attached a montage of the last 4 days connection.

Title: Re: Repeat fault interesting observations
Post by: NewtronStar on October 27, 2013, 04:52:01 PM
Oh my god that looks bad  :-[ it's only when you see someone's stats you kind of think to yourself my line is doing very well  ;) unless it's those guys on 80/20 with a line sync of 79889 that live inside the copper cab  >:(
Title: Re: Repeat fault interesting observations
Post by: Black Sheep on October 27, 2013, 06:43:11 PM
Now I'm confused ?? I thought those graphs were of the circuit Walter has been looking at, not BE's own circuit ??  :'(
Title: Re: Repeat fault interesting observations
Post by: kitz on October 27, 2013, 06:46:05 PM
Oh..  sorry I misread Bes post and what he meant.    I didnt realise that BE would have some stats for another line, and thought they were BE's own line.

I'll delete my post then.  :blush:
Title: Re: Repeat fault interesting observations
Post by: Bald_Eagle1 on October 27, 2013, 06:46:48 PM
I dont need to tell you but theres something really weird about your line BE.


It's not actually my line.
It's one I have been monitoring for Walter.


Quote
Content removed by kitz as she was talking garbage, by mistakenly thinking that the graphs were BE's :D

AS Walter mentioned, quite preposterously this required him to raise a second phone fault as the test had indicated a one leg dis.


Quote
Can you adjust your hlogs to show further than -100 on the x-axis?    Not that it would prove anything but it would just be interesting to see.

I could, but Hlog never goes below -100.
The worst it gets on this example is -96.25

You actually meant the y-axis, didn't you?

Title: Re: Repeat fault interesting observations
Post by: kitz on October 27, 2013, 06:51:07 PM
Sorry, BE.. my confusion..   I thought they were your stats.  Ignore what I said...   therefore I didnt know the one leg dis related to the stats you posted.  Ive deleted my post.

Title: Re: Repeat fault interesting observations
Post by: burakkucat on October 27, 2013, 11:41:33 PM
Regarding this faulty Ewhurstian circuit, I am also a recipient of the monitoring data.

Attached, below, are four representative images of the bRAS profile (cropped to remove any private, identifying information).

Points of technical interest to note are:
As is well known, Walter's wheelbarrow is regularly trundled around the village of Ewhust and its outlying environs. It is also, I believe, fairly well known the b*cat makes a regular inspection of items up for auction on eBay. Having just got back from my most recent tour of inspection, I would like to ask if fellow Kitizens would be prepared to join me in purchasing a new Openreach Vauxhall Vivaro, which is currently up for auction and then lend it to Walter for his use around and about Ewhurst?

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/151152005643

Clearly some Openreach technician has been rather clumsy in loosing his new van but, assuming it was not Black Sheep nor one of his fellow flock members, I will not feel guilty in having 'first rummage' through the test equipment, 'gubbins' & stock that will be stashed in the back and adding certain interesting items to my grotto.  :)
Title: Re: Repeat fault interesting observations
Post by: waltergmw on October 28, 2013, 10:11:52 AM
Thanks BKK for your toy idea !

Being just a little pedantic, we should not overlook the D side tie cable too. This would not be the first time a fault either within the FTTC or the tie cable had been found. "Ordinary" Openreach engineers are unable to open the special locks on FTTCs unless they've filched a key from somewhere. Yet another hindrance for us all.

Kind regards,
Walter
Title: Re: Repeat fault interesting observations
Post by: burakkucat on October 28, 2013, 05:17:16 PM
Thanks BKK for your toy idea !

You are welcome.  :D

Quote
Being just a little pedantic, we should not overlook the D side tie cable too.

Indeed. That is why I typed " . . . somewhere between the MSAN and the EU's NTE5/A, . . . ", as that statement 'covers' the D-side tie cable.

Quote
"Ordinary" Openreach engineers are unable to open the special locks on FTTCs unless they've filched a key from somewhere.

For those 'Huawei based' cabinets, of which I am (physically) familiar, a key to the main security lock would be required. Once that has been released the standard 'triangle' key will allow access to the right hand side of the cabinet, where the tie cables are punched down onto the Krone connectors.
Title: Re: Repeat fault interesting observations
Post by: waltergmw on October 31, 2013, 05:59:55 PM
Just to update you the problems remain. Plusnet report that an Eclipse test passed so they have cleared the phone line fault down without visiting the premises; where we still have no dial tone and incoming calls ring ad infinitum.

BT Openreach also report that they have detected a fault in the exchange where they are to do a Lift & Shift. I assume that they are aware this is a VDSL service but their fault reporting systems don't recognise the difference !

However as we have reminded PlusNet that we still don't have a dial tone and we also have a MBORC announced we have had to accept the first available visit date of November 7th.

Sadly I recognise this is likely to become yet another horrible pantomime ! Oh how I wish we had a Black Sheep amongst us.

Kind regards,
Walter
Title: Re: Repeat fault interesting observations
Post by: Chrysalis on October 31, 2013, 08:56:46 PM
With it been a voice fault, BT will at least treat it seriously when they come, not only because the fault is kind of obvious but also the regulations that exist require them to fix it.

I am surprised at the date tho.  When I last had a voice fault it was reported on a friday night (by my isp, which was a entanet reseller) and the engineer knocked on my door on the sunday.  My isp was surprised also :p  In my case according to the engineer the fault was in the exchange.
Title: Re: Repeat fault interesting observations
Post by: burakkucat on October 31, 2013, 09:34:34 PM
I attach an image that shows the current bRAS rate for the VDSL2 (FTTC) circuit in question.  :(
Title: Re: Repeat fault interesting observations
Post by: kitz on November 01, 2013, 01:10:48 AM
Quote
MBORC announced we have had to accept the first available visit date of November 7th

Yes I saw that MBORC report yesterday


Quote
I am surprised at the date tho.

Me too, looks like they are adding 1 week on to appts until it clears :/
You would have thought no voice meant push to front of queue though.

Quote
"From Sunday evening through to the early hours of Monday morning the South of the UK was hit by a severe storm. The exceptional conditions, with strong winds and heavy rains have resulted in flooding and network damage and as a result we have seen a major increase in fault intake across the affected areas.

Openreach is now declaring MBORC for repair activities, in the following areas, with effect from midnight Tuesday 29 October 2013.

Cambridge
Colchester and Ipswich
Hemel
Southend
Romford
East Downs
Central Downs
West Downs (including the Isle of Wight) Esher Croydon Crayford Reading Maidenhead Southampton Bournemouth Taunton Guildford

We have been directing available additional resource into the affected areas in order to bring the position back to normal as quickly as possible.

Title: Re: Repeat fault interesting observations
Post by: Black Sheep on November 01, 2013, 07:34:28 AM
You would have thought no voice meant push to front of queue though.

I don't think it's still been classed as a voice fault though, according to Walters post. He comments that because the Eclipse test passed, they've written that particular task off. Ergo, it appears only the DSL task remains ?? May have got this wrong.
Title: Re: Repeat fault interesting observations
Post by: burakkucat on November 01, 2013, 02:40:03 PM
I would urge either Bob Pullen (http://forum.kitz.co.uk/index.php?action=profile;u=834), Chris Parr (http://forum.kitz.co.uk/index.php?action=profile;u=460) or Alex Rolls (http://forum.kitz.co.uk/index.php?action=profile;u=6078) to please:
Title: Re: Repeat fault interesting observations
Post by: chrisparr on November 01, 2013, 02:50:23 PM
I'd suggest not PMing Alex as he's not been at Plusnet for several months!

I'll get one of the team to come and see what's what and reply shortly, sorry for the problems you're having :(
Title: Re: Repeat fault interesting observations
Post by: cpettitt on November 01, 2013, 03:02:54 PM
Hi,

I'm really sorry to hear of the problems, having read through this thread. If you could provide a ticket reference so that I can gain access to your account, Walter, I'd be more than happy to investigate this issue for you.
Title: Re: Repeat fault interesting observations
Post by: waltergmw on November 01, 2013, 06:43:22 PM
Hi Chris,
I'm about to send you a PM with some more technical details.

In the meantime I suppose we have to live with the Openreach processes and their timescales but I find it hard to accept that the phone line passes its Eclipse test but without a dial tone available to us AND we clearly have a single leg service as demonstrated by the VDSL data we monitor. As Plusnet have registered that the phone line still has a fault and have confirmed the earliest possible site visit appointment, somebody must have registered the fact that there is a phone fault still to clear.

EDIT I have now sent a PM to messrs Parr & Pettit. I have repeated that unless and until there is a dial tone on the line it seems quite wrong to attempt a L & S at the PCP / ECI MSAN

Kind regards,
Walter



Title: Re: Repeat fault interesting observations
Post by: Chrysalis on November 01, 2013, 07:21:50 PM
You would have thought no voice meant push to front of queue though.

I don't think it's still been classed as a voice fault though, according to Walters post. He comments that because the Eclipse test passed, they've written that particular task off. Ergo, it appears only the DSL task remains ?? May have got this wrong.

maybe not by plusnet, but a visiting engineer failing to hear a dial tone? what would he treat as.
Title: Re: Repeat fault interesting observations
Post by: waltergmw on November 01, 2013, 08:48:23 PM
@ Chrysalis,

As you will have gathered there is a significant degree of chaos around many parts of Surrey.
It is not helped by SCC and marketing folk within BT making promises that cannot possibly be met except by weasel words.
I expect it's the same in many places. Apart from the laws of physics, the odd hurricane and the field staff and subcontractors being asked to complete quite preposterous sub duct installations etc. with far too many broken and blocked ducts, all FTTC installations are "Hoped to be completed by December 31st" when even a layperson can see they will all be hard-pushed to make next Summer.

In this case I have to believe that an engineer, who did not even visit the house but stated an Eclipse test passed, was either examining the wrong pair or was looking at cross-jumpered pairs towards the PCP. That is all water under the bridge now until we get a methodical engineer to prove the E side in the exchange and PCP, then check the tie pairs are correctly configured and finally use the test socket within the house to confirm a dial tone is present on the correct phone number. After that we can start to examine the VDSL performance problems which may require the L & S operation.

Kind regards,
Walter

Title: Re: Repeat fault interesting observations
Post by: kitz on November 01, 2013, 09:27:38 PM
Quote
EDIT I have now sent a PM to messrs Parr & Pettit. I have repeated that unless and until there is a dial tone on the line it seems quite wrong to attempt a L & S at the PCP / ECI MSAN

Walter, this concerns me because its now evening and afaik the Customer Care Team dont work weekends. 
So it could be Monday before Chris sees the PM. :(
Title: Re: Repeat fault interesting observations
Post by: burakkucat on November 01, 2013, 10:34:56 PM
As Black Sheep kindly explained some time ago, there is the e-Viper process -- available to all CPs -- that should be used to 'fast track' serious issues, blunders and failings back to Openreach.  :-X
Title: Re: Repeat fault interesting observations
Post by: waltergmw on November 02, 2013, 12:39:41 AM
@ Kitz,

Thanks very much for your concerns.

As we have to operate via the PlusNet "question" or fault report too, I hope that their week-end operatives will see I've addressed our PlusNet correspondents here by duplicating my reply above.
I can only hope that BT will turn up un-announced tomorrow (as they have done before) or that somebody within PlusNet will start rattling some cages in a serious manner.
There is no question that the benighted EUs require their phone service restored immediately, even if we have to continue the VDSL fault Much longer.
As this particular fault was only raised, for the second time, at 9:59am, Friday 27 Sep 2013 another few days really won't make a great deal of difference.

Very sadly it is becoming increasingly obvious that that the UK is investing vast subsidies in "The wrong technology" (Peter Cochrane in the Newsnight article in August 2013 and his HoL evidence in Spring of 2012).

Whilst the majority with shorter length lines in urban areas can survive with VDSL those, as in this case with a D side line length of around 1.3 km are being left to fester on rotting under-maintained infrastructure. The situation is exacerbated by the ever-increasing number of inappropriate FTTCs all requiring more attention that the workforce can possibly deal with, including subcontractor installs without test equipment. It is particularly galling for Ewhurstians as you will probably remember BT were allowed, almost unquestionably with the cooperation of Surrey CC, DCMS, Ofcom and politicians of all persuasions at all levels, to destroy our RDPE grant-approved project where we had recognised the inadequate infrastructure. We had specified a brand new full fibre backbone running throughout the village immediately available to extend with FTTH. Instead with three BT FTTCs, quite inappropriate for any fibre distribution solution and each with only three spare fibres in one tube and a further empty tube that might be coaxed to accommodate a 12 fibre bundle, we are quite literally at a dead end. Fibre on demand and claims of jam tomorrow by working on other solutions just won't wash; just as they haven't with Margaret Hodge's PAC. See attached letter to which we have naturally replied that improving the efficiency of BDUK etc. is unlikely to influence the Laws of Physics.

Kind regards,
Walter
Title: Re: Repeat fault interesting observations
Post by: Chrysalis on November 03, 2013, 01:59:37 AM
I fear the track has been lost here, in regards to the dial tone issue I would keep it simple, simply report the fault to the provider who you pay your line rental to, do not even mention broadband, keep it simple and state there is no dial tone.  Voice faults are treated with higher priority, so dont try to mix it in with a broadband fault, if you lucky when they fix it the broadband may improve.

That fault I mentioned earlier where the engineer turned up on a sunday, after he fixed my voice my adsl was down, he out of goodwill sorted that at the same time (he could have officially said I need to book a new fault).  When he did fix it I had a siginificant improvement on upstream sync speed, prior to the voice fault my line was struggling to sync at 400kbit (which even long lines usually achieve on adsl), after he fixed the voice it went up to over 800kbit.  Basically i was able to hit the max 832kbit for adsl max and eventualyl later on with ukonline could get over 1mbit.  So sometimes the cause of a voice fault can regress broadband but dont treat it as a broadband fault when the voice is affected, just dont mention broadband at all to the provider.
Title: Re: Repeat fault interesting observations
Post by: waltergmw on November 04, 2013, 07:55:56 AM
Thanks Chrysalis,

The fault is registered as a broadband fault as that's where it started. It is only the incompetence of an engineer investigating the broadband fault that caused the single leg dis.

However I am ever hopeful that Plusnet (who "own" both phone & VDSL services) may at long last early this week kick BT Openreach into some sort of reaction.

(Meanwhile yesterday I reported four storm damaged phone line faults with BT which they "hope to fix" by Friday 8th which means re-visiting the "repair" where they have failed even to attempt to connect them in the temporary 20 pr lash-up.

Kind regards,
Walter
Title: Re: Repeat fault interesting observations
Post by: waltergmw on November 04, 2013, 11:36:02 AM
@cpettitt,

Your Jonathan Foster still believes a VDSL fault can be fixed disregarding the state of the telephone line.

Kind regards,
Walter
Title: Re: Repeat fault interesting observations
Post by: cpettitt on November 04, 2013, 04:13:27 PM
Sorry for the delayed reply, Walter.

I'm just reading the fault from start to finish (I can see the testing that's been done that way). Once I have read through everything and I've come to my conclusion and next steps, I'll let you know - I'll be as quick as I can.
Title: Re: Repeat fault interesting observations
Post by: cpettitt on November 04, 2013, 04:36:22 PM
Walter,

I've taken a look through the fault ticket and I completely understand why you frustrated, especially with the lead times for each piece of work/investigation that is required.

The Lift and Shift will not be completed until the telephone fault has been cleared. BT Openreach will look at the telephone fault and act on this with precedence. An engineer has been booked in, as you're aware on 7th to restore your telephone service.

Once this has been completed, an engineer will complete a Lift and Shift in a bid to resolve the problem with your Fibre service. I appreciate that the lead times are somewhat extended I feel, however, as there is an MBORC in the area, there is very little we can do to alleviate this.

It is important that my colleague, Jonathan continues to do all he can, which he will, to resolve this issue for you. I will keep an eye on proceedings to ensure this issue is resolved as quickly as possible for you.
Title: Re: Repeat fault interesting observations
Post by: waltergmw on November 04, 2013, 05:58:00 PM
Thank you Chris for your intervention. I am much relieved that you at least acknowledge the practicalities of the incident. For a start it would be helpful if it was clearly stated on the ticket the priority of the activities instead of suggesting an impossible method.

Whilst all human beings are error prone, there appears to be a need for some joined up processes, especially with something as obvious as a D side 1 leg dis. Surely everyone must realise by subdividing and doubling the fault process, quite probably with another engineer and sometimes without sufficient briefing, it is stretching the timescales quite disproportionately. In a semi-efficient world, one might have hoped that a quick text to the engineer who made the mistake, another engineer could pop by and at least restore the phone line in less than 30 minutes. Were that done, we could easily accept that the investigation of a working but substandard broadband service should be postponed during the MBORC period.

Kind regards,
Walter
Title: Re: Repeat fault interesting observations
Post by: burakkucat on November 04, 2013, 06:19:06 PM
There is such a process. Black Sheep has mentioned it on more than one occasion. It is the e-Viper process, which is available to all CPs.

Why do CP's not make more use of it?  :shrug2:

Perhaps Plusnet could explain, using this incident as an example?  :-\
Title: Re: Repeat fault interesting observations
Post by: waltergmw on November 05, 2013, 07:34:10 AM
@ BKK,

The only obvious reason I can think of is if BT Openreach charge a king's ransom.

Kind regards,
Walter
Title: Re: Repeat fault interesting observations
Post by: cpettitt on November 05, 2013, 11:28:13 AM
The e-Viper process is for raising an escalation with our suppliers. Due to MBORC we have no grounds to raise an escalation unfortunately.

We do submit e-Viper requests in certain instances, but it isn't something that can be used in instances such as these unfortunately.
Title: Re: Repeat fault interesting observations
Post by: burakkucat on November 05, 2013, 09:03:25 PM
However the situation with this particular EU's line arose before Beattie (t.a. Openreach) declared MBORC . . .
Title: Re: Repeat fault interesting observations
Post by: waltergmw on November 06, 2013, 12:20:41 AM
Gentlefolk,

On 22nd October I wrote:-

We note the unacceptable situation continues with the sync speed still capped at 10 Mbps where close neighbours obtain uncapped Sync speeds around 22 Mbps. As this is a continuing repeat fault will you please exert the maximum pressure on your supplier to undertake remedial actions forthwith.

In fact the leg dis blunder was initiated on 28th October which was quite inaccurately described as:-

I have spoken to our suppliers today and they have now advised that they have arranged for a engineer to visit your exchange and complete the necessary work. This should now take place in the next 48 hours and once completed I will have a further update.

We are now informed on the plusnet ticket

"Thank you for getting back to me. BT have assured me that this work is going ahead. Once all work has been completed i will have further information."

and

"INTERNAL: Holding for updates.

The next action on your Help Assistant Question is due on Thursday 7th November at 7:00am. This Question will remain open with the CSC - Faults - JF until this time."

When in fact we know the jobs are just being put in hold mode until (probably) an engineer can devote around 30 minutes to re-crimp the open FTTC & D side leg.
Until that leg is repaired it is not practical to address the VDSL fault which has been outstanding, but partially fixed, since Friday 27th September.

Whilst we appreciate that all ISPs are being held to ransom by BT Openreach and their arcane practices, a far more plain speaking-conversation would at least inform us of that condition.

Kind regards,
Walter
Title: Re: Repeat fault interesting observations
Post by: waltergmw on November 07, 2013, 03:41:24 PM
Gentlefolk,

I REALY IS TIME that far more open dialogue is provided.
The BT culture that only they know best with the pantomimes we have observed is actually severely impeding a logical examination of the line's performance.

The only pertinent data PlusNet have provided is useless, but I suspect their first line fault teams have been groomed into subservience by Openreach procedures.
Todays example is:-

"I have spoken to our suppliers today and they have advised that the lift and shift has been delayed due to a system problem."
I interpret that as meaning they now see the 1 leg dis would preclude the L & S operation.

The actual situation is that the engineer Paul tested the line from the PCP but could see nothing wrong.
Once at the customer premises the one leg dis was clearly illustrated so he swapped to a different pair in the u/g cable from the final pole to the BT 66 box on the house.
That produced a welcome improvement but still with an inadequate upstream speed.
Later on this morning there was a power outage which has produced a further small improvement (detailed below) but the upload speed is still far too low.


@ cpettitt I trust you observe how much needless effort this is costing us all and that you and your senior managers will strive to make significant improvements to the dialogue.

Kind regards,
Walter

_________________________________

Retrain Reason:   0
Max:   Upstream rate     = 1239 Kbps, Downstream rate = 19152 Kbps
Path:   0, Upstream rate = 1163 Kbps, Downstream rate = 19724 Kbps

Discovery Phase (Initial) Band Plan
US: (0,95) (880,1195) (1984,2771)
DS: (32,859) (1216,1959) (2792,4083)
Medley Phase (Final) Band Plan
US: (0,95) (880,1195)
DS: (32,859)
VDSL Port Details               Upstream   Downstream
Attainable Net Data Rate:    1239 kbps  19152 kbps
Actual Aggregate Tx Power: 6.8 dBm    10.9 dBm
============================================================================
VDSL Band Status           U0      U1     U2     U3      D1     D2      D3
Line Attenuation(dB):      8.3    67.9    70.0    N/A    27.7    0.1    0.1   
Signal Attenuation(dB):    8.3    65.9    N/A    N/A    27.7    N/A    N/A   
SNR Margin(dB):            4.8    6.3      N/A    N/A     5.3     N/A    N/A   
TX Power(dBm):            1.9     5.1    N/A     N/A    10.9     N/A    N/A
Title: Re: Repeat fault interesting observations
Post by: waltergmw on November 07, 2013, 08:21:33 PM
Here is the next response from PlusNet:-

The system was down to an internal issue with our systems that would not allocate the new pairs correctly and not the issue with the phone line. As such this issue had to be rectified before the lift and shift could be completed this issue has now been cleared. As such a lift and shift will now be completed.

Also as for the engineers notes these are not currently available as the engineer has only attended this morning it can in fact take up to 24 hours for us to have these notes available to us.

We now need to wait for the lift and shift to be completed. Once this has been done the engineer will perform a DLM reset.
Title: Re: Repeat fault interesting observations
Post by: waltergmw on November 07, 2013, 08:24:29 PM
Here is the current Hlog which shows some form of anomaly.
Title: Re: Repeat fault interesting observations
Post by: burakkucat on November 07, 2013, 08:43:46 PM
Here is the next response from PlusNet:-

The system was down to an internal issue with our systems that would not allocate the new pairs correctly and not the issue with the phone line. As such this issue had to be rectified before the lift and shift could be completed this issue has now been cleared. As such a lift and shift will now be completed.

<snip>

What on earth is all that? Have they been on my cat-mint? The first sentence (if you can call it that) is a stream of gibberish which discloses precisely nothing.

Correction. It appears to disclose that a significant number public facing employees from that Company have had an abysmal education.

The metallic pathway is the sole responsibility of Openreach not Plusnet.
Title: Re: Repeat fault interesting observations
Post by: waltergmw on November 08, 2013, 12:48:05 PM
We are promised a remote L&S for tomorrow 08:00 to 13:00 but rest assured that there will be a wheelbarrow in the vicinity as well as a cat and a bald eagle (and Buzzards and red Kites !) keeping a close watch on proceedings. We will provide data to Plusnet before they can !

"Our suppliers have advised me today that an engineer will now attended to complete the lift and shift tomorrow morning between 8am - 1pm. The engineer should not need to attend your premises. Once completed he should then complete a DLM reset if needed. I will now check your fault for further updates on Monday when I am next in the office."

Whether or not a DLM reset is needed, the fact that the service will be routed via a new MSAN port must initiate a training period in any case.

Here's the 06:00 data:-

Retrain Reason:   0
Max:   Upstream rate = 1390 Kbps, Downstream rate = 18028 Kbps
Path:   0, Upstream rate = 1163 Kbps, Downstream rate = 19724 Kbps

Discovery Phase (Initial) Band Plan
US: (0,95) (880,1195) (1984,2771)
DS: (32,859) (1216,1959) (2792,4083)
Medley Phase (Final) Band Plan
US: (0,95) (880,1195)
DS: (32,859)
       VDSL Port Details       Upstream        Downstream
Attainable Net Data Rate:       1390 kbps         18028 kbps
Actual Aggregate Tx Power:        6.8 dBm          10.9 dBm
============================================================================
  VDSL Band Status          U0      U1        U2      U3      D1      D2      D3
  Line Attenuation(dB):     8.3     67.9       70.0     N/A    27.7    0.1    0.1   
Signal Attenuation(dB):    8.3     65.9       N/A      N/A    27.7    N/A    N/A   
        SNR Margin(dB):     5.3     6.7        N/A      N/A    4.1     N/A     N/A   
         TX Power(dBm):     1.9    5.1       N/A      N/A    10.9     N/A     N/A   

Also note the BT Speed test is reporting the impossible with a throughput speed faster than the IP profile and even the 18.31 sync speed if we do the 96.79 % sum.
I suspect that is a function of the current DLM process still within the first 48 hours.
Title: Re: Repeat fault interesting observations
Post by: ryant704 on November 08, 2013, 01:11:41 PM
Walter I've experienced faster speeds than my IP profile (below sync though) several times on VDSL2. Every time this has happened my line has been banded at the time, I asked Ed and he would just ignore the question.

If you could find an answer for it, though I doubt that!

More than likely they will just blame something on the computer causing it, which isn't true! If it was true the same thing would happen when my line isn't banded! :D

Though in your case I would suspect it could be some application/setting causing this to happen. There are various chrome extensions which can cause this and I know Kaspersky can cause this issue as well...
Title: Re: Repeat fault interesting observations
Post by: waltergmw on November 10, 2013, 12:18:24 PM
@ Ruant,

Thanks for your comments although we believe this is very much a network / MSAN difficulty, but time will eventually tell.

___________________________

@ Everyone

As the Plusnet member centre is down at present I thought I would add some detail here.
Yesterday we had an unexpected visit from one of our resident BT Openreach engineers who came to fix an unknown fault.
Sadly he was unaware of anything to do with the L&S !
He tested the line resulting in NFF using his JDSU.

Meanwhile this morning's 06:00 log shows these figures which are unstable and have deteriorated overnight.

Status: Showtime
Retrain Reason:   2
Max:        Upstream rate = 429 Kbps, Downstream rate = 18768 Kbps
Path:   0, Upstream rate = 391 Kbps, Downstream rate = 15847 Kbps

Discovery Phase (Initial) Band Plan
US: (0,95) (880,1195) (1984,2771)
DS: (32,859) (1216,1959) (2792,4083)
Medley Phase (Final) Band Plan
US: (0,95) (880,1195)
DS: (32,859)
          VDSL Port Details         Upstream        Downstream
Attainable Net Data Rate:          429 kbps         18768 kbps
Actual Aggregate Tx Power:        4.6 dBm          10.9 dBm
============================================================================
  VDSL Band Status          U0      U1      U2      U3      D1      D2      D3
  Line Attenuation(dB):     8.1    67.4    62.6     N/A    27.5    0.1    0.1   
Signal Attenuation(dB):    8.1    64.3     N/A     N/A    27.5    N/A  N/A   
        SNR Margin(dB):     6.6    6.0      N/A      N/A    6.4      N/A  N/A   
         TX Power(dBm):    2.0    1.1      N/A      N/A    11.0    N/A  N/A   

However I am relieved to say we have a red worm BT speed test (see picture below) which clearly indicates to all that we STILL have a serious fault to cure.
The next problem will be to get a suitably qualified and powerful PlusNet person to take ownership and resolve the problem with similarly qualified BT Openreach personell, hopefully once and for all.

Kind regards,
Walter