Kitz Forum
Broadband Related => Broadband Technology => Topic started by: snadge on October 24, 2013, 12:25:32 AM
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anyone know what this represents:
Bearer 0
INP: 1.00 1.50
INPRein: 0.00 0.00
delay: 8 7
PER: 16.19 16.64
OR: 32.60 10.09
AgR: 18024.26 1126.26
I have some impulse noise on my line as many do but nothing serious, I wonder if it shows a value if there are large amounts REIN?
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Rein INP symbols will be applied when the DLM has detected REIN on your line, it will have different parameters compared to normal the INP.
It will probably look for different error patterns, noise margin patterns, etc then will decide if it needs to be protected with INP or REIN INP.
Though I feel this will be used for more of a diagnostic purpose than actual protection. Though I do doubt it will be able to find REIN successfully, I feel the DLM will be last stand to say that it is REIN affecting the line. One wonders if REIN is detected, If OR gets flagged and they investigate this area. Though I doubt that will/does happen...
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I have some impulse noise on my line as many do but nothing serious, I wonder if it shows a value if there are large amounts REIN?
Don't know about individual router stats and what they show, but when I get a classic BT circuit subject to REIN, I can view it via Rambo and yes, the INP count will show a figure. I've personally only seen the highest DS INP set to '4', and the US set to '2'.
Whether there are greater depths, I wouldn't know, but when it's already at the levels quoted, there's usually action already being taken by the ISP/OR engineers.
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Hi BS - :) yes those higher levels of INP would/could indicate massive REIN ingress (so INP is increased) but I just wanted to know what INPRein was for - seems to be a measure for the amount of REIN on the line... my line has some REIN but nothing serious and yet it shows nothing, I may get sky to ask a specialist on their Board Room forum - I think Ryant may be right that its used for diagnostics, sky's new router firmwares and DLM seem to have extra diagnostic features built in (im not using a sky router at the moment but I'am using a Netgear DGND3700v2 which uses the BCM 6361 chipset just as the latest Sky-Hubs do) Sky Routers & ISAM/DLM now use g.INP which dynamically changes INP on the fly without re-sync, maybe its related and the Netgear Chipset stats are displaying the INPRein value which is part of it - a modded Sky router I have (Sagemcom F@ST 2504N) showed plenty more info in the stats thats not normally there that corroborates the 'diagnostics' theory - I posted them on here somewhere..?
ah yes here they are:
Retransmit Counters
rtx_tx: 55 0
rtx_c: 55 0
rtx_uc: 0 0
G.INP Counters
LEFTRS: 0 0
minEFTR: 17716 0
errFreeBits: 791370 0
Q: 0 0
V: 0 0
RxQueue: 0 0
TxQueue: 0 0
G.INP Framing: 0 0
G.INP lookback: 0 0
RRC bits: 0 0
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I have some impulse noise on my line as many do
Everyone does.
The Sky DLM + me adding 1dB to the margin* (so its 4dB rather than 3dB) results in zero errors/day at a sync of 20771/1212. The only errors I've had in the last few months have been down to thunderstorms. The Sky DLM is top-notch but what else can they do but improve that? We're all stuck with BT again on VDSL2 thanks to clueless politicians - its like groundhog day, again :P
Oh and for anyone wondering I am no fan of Sky :D
*I have a local noise source I know about but for the sake of 1Mbps or so I cba.
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Snadge ......... we get circuits who's INP (DS) will be set at 4, giving the uninitiated the impression that REIN is prevalent. But, a simple HR/Split Pair, will introduce interference into the circuit that would normally be discarded, and our friend the DLM will often incorrectly see that as REIN.
INP is only an indicator of REIN if your MPF is perfect.
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Don't know about individual router stats and what they show, but when I get a classic BT circuit subject to REIN, I can view it via Rambo and yes, the INP count will show a figure. I've personally only seen the highest DS INP set to '4', and the US set to '2'.
Whether there are greater depths, I wouldn't know, but when it's already at the levels quoted, there's usually action already being taken by the ISP/OR engineers.
Hmm. A recent resync changed my FTTC stats from (DS/US) INP 3/0, Delay 8/0 to INP 8/0, Delay 16/0 (INPRein remained 0/0). Does that mean I can expect some action to be taken, even if I do not complain?
Presumably the fact that US is not affected means the interference must be somewhere near my end of the line?
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Don't know about individual router stats and what they show, but when I get a classic BT circuit subject to REIN, I can view it via Rambo and yes, the INP count will show a figure. I've personally only seen the highest DS INP set to '4', and the US set to '2'.
Whether there are greater depths, I wouldn't know, but when it's already at the levels quoted, there's usually action already being taken by the ISP/OR engineers.
Hmm. A recent resync changed my FTTC stats from (DS/US) INP 3/0, Delay 8/0 to INP 8/0, Delay 16/0 (INPRein remained 0/0). Does that mean I can expect some action to be taken, even if I do not complain?
Presumably the fact that US is not affected means the interference must be somewhere near my end of the line?
Greybeard ...... I don't know mate. I would very much doubt it. I think you are perhaps reading my earlier post, and I may have given the impression the DLM will alert someone if the INP is raised ?? that's not what I meant.
I was trying to infer that if DS and US INP levels are as high as they can go, then there's a chance there could be REIN in the area and others may too be affected. It was kind of aimed at ryant, after he mused over wether REIN is detected and flagged to us.
That's the problem with remote-faulting, graph-faulting, EU's diagnosis, .......... it's never as easy as that.
Our test systems, Brandenburg in particular, reports almost anything it sees as REIN, when the issue will be found to be a 2-3dB profile causing the problem, or star-wiring, or a HR, or ...... anything else !!
Our 'Diagnostic Centre of Excellence' were adamant that there was a fault on a E-side cable after the EU had had over 40 (i kid you not) engineering visits. They were using hLog or something, from where they were based in London, and no amount of protestations would budge them. A 'Computer says' mentality. The circuit in question had had about 4 E-side changes previously, the fault was the Exchange DSL equipment on the SNR US. Whenever the phone was rung the broadband dropped out, and this bespoke fault was traced to Fujitsu Mark 2 equipment being the culprit. The DCoE had to raise the US SNR manually and apply a 'cap' to resolve the issue. Only until a port was found on Fuji Mk3 equipment.
Don't get me wrong, graphical analysis has it's place, i use it all the time, especially when REIN faulting to get a wider picture of what's going on. But why your circuit has been imposed with an INP of 3, I wouldn't know. My statement was made under the assumption the MPF tests perfect, against all 'normal' interference. If your circuit was then to ramp up to high levels of INP, then there's a good chance REIN may be lurking ??
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thanks for the infor BS :)
I had also been told that INP can go up to 4 - never heard of 8 before but must obviously be possible
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thanks for the infor BS :)
I had also been told that INP can go up to 4 - never heard of 8 before but must obviously be possible
Yes thanks BS.
Of course, if the modem were properly locked, I would be blissfully unaware of the INP value - except for the kids moaning about their games being "a bit laggy".... ;)
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thanks for the infor BS :)
I had also been told that INP can go up to 4 - never heard of 8 before but must obviously be possible
Yes thanks BS.
Of course, if the modem were properly locked, I would be blissfully unaware of the INP value - except for the kids moaning about their games being "a bit laggy".... ;)
GB it would do the opposite, INP is there to make sure the line is stable. Yes, this does normally come at the expense of ping. This normally being 8 but honestly it doesn't make that much of a difference.
I also 'believe' INP can go up to 16, but don't quote me on that one...
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Yes thanks BS.
Of course, if the modem were properly locked, I would be blissfully unaware of the INP value - except for the kids moaning about their games being "a bit laggy".... ;)
GB it would do the opposite, INP is there to make sure the line is stable. Yes, this does normally come at the expense of ping. This normally being 8 but honestly it doesn't make that much of a difference.
I also 'believe' INP can go up to 16, but don't quote me on that one...
Yes, my previous post was rather "tongue in cheek"! Tracert shows that my line has a latency of 22ms to the BT servers, which is just about long enough to give a noticeable lag when gaming. However there often much worse delays in the rest of the path to the game server.
On the plus side the line is stable - a couple of weeks since the last resync.
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Yes thanks BS.
Of course, if the modem were properly locked, I would be blissfully unaware of the INP value - except for the kids moaning about their games being "a bit laggy".... ;)
GB it would do the opposite, INP is there to make sure the line is stable. Yes, this does normally come at the expense of ping. This normally being 8 but honestly it doesn't make that much of a difference.
I also 'believe' INP can go up to 16, but don't quote me on that one...
Yes, my previous post was rather "tongue in cheek"! Tracert shows that my line has a latency of 22ms to the BT servers, which is just about long enough to give a noticeable lag when gaming. However there often much worse delays in the rest of the path to the game server.
On the plus side the line is stable - a couple of weeks since the last resync.
im shocked a ping of 22ms gives you gaming lag? as it shouldnt really...? I dont game online but HAVE played games online like FIFA one connections with 40-50ms ping and they were fine?
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I'm not nor ever will be 'a gamer', but 22ms (I too also thought) was a decent enough ping ??
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Considering that the average human response time is over 200ms, and the best ever recorded (probably) is ~100ms, then I agree.
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Memo to self, must try to keep the humour out of my posts in future! As I said before, 22ms was not the total ping, just the first hop from my router to the first BT one. Every bit of latency adds up! Anyway DLM has now relented and reduced INP back to 3, which gives 15ms for the first hop out of a total of 25ms to bbc.co.uk at this quiet time of day. :)