Kitz Forum
Broadband Related => Broadband Hardware => Topic started by: Black Sheep on October 10, 2013, 09:49:14 PM
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Not sure if this is in the right place ???
Network Engineering have introduced an improved VDSL Interstitial Plate. The new version has the proven functionality to meet existing FTTC Bandplan (17Mhz), plus is future proofed against any further increases up to 30Mhz.
This will ensure that customers receive the highest possible bandwidth, both now and into the future.
In addition, a filter has been provided to add resistance to Repetitive Electrical Interference (REIN).
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That's interesting, especially as it does seem to coincide with some very recent strange goings on with DSLAM and/or modem firmware updates (additional tones, additional band plan (U4) & materially 'different' connection stats.
Are you aware of any such updates?
If so, it would be really helpful if you were able to explain them for us.
P.S. if you wish to obtain any user testing feedback for the new VDSL Interstitial Plate, I think you have a rough idea where I am based ;)
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I'm not aware of any updates at all, I'm afraid ?? The only thing I have noticed (and this is purely on an individual basis), is the dramatic rise in faulty VDSL ports in ECI Cabs ??
By 'dramatic', I mean instead of coming across perhaps one a week, I'm getting one a day. Linked to anything ?? I really have no idea ?? :)
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Just had BTO on a job here (REIN problems) and they have replaced my vDSL faceplate with a 'MK2'. It looks identical apart from the 'MK2' on the front.
The engineer said it had an RF filter built in.
That's all I know!
Has anybody had experience of one of these?
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http://forum.kitz.co.uk/index.php/topic,13043.0.html
;)
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http://forum.kitz.co.uk/index.php/topic,13043.0.html
;)
My bad :). I didn't see that.
OR are getting a REIN engineer out within a week hopefully, to fix my problems
Could somebody merge these threads please?!?
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Where are you based Alec ?? I'm overrun with REIN faults at the moment ........ a few of which have proved otherwise ::) ......... I can see via the workstacks there's at least two more coming my way as well. :)
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Merged and placed in the hardware section.
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black sheep I am still intrigued by "faulty ports".
As I understand an engineer to do a port swap (lift and shift) has to swap the tie pair, because they have no access to the fTTC cabinet. So these are been diagnosed as faulty ports, but it could be a bad tie pair?
Doesnt it sound odd that these cabinets which are of course expensive would have failing ports at such a high rate?
How do you normally diagnose a bad port, what are the signs? You noticed my posts lately showing a weakened D1 signal? which is the frequency under very low attenuation.
A local engineer diagnosed my issue as bad pairs rather than faulty ports. It seems tho he could have easily diagnosed it as bad ports instead.
If you diagnosing 1 a week bad you will eventually run out of ports in 2 years :)
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Where are you based Alec ?? I'm overrun with REIN faults at the moment ........ a few of which have proved otherwise ::) ......... I can see via the workstacks there's at least two more coming my way as well. :)
Hampshire.
The engineer (A I'll call him - I don't want to use his full name in case OR have a problem with it) who came to me this morning said the REIN team are 'very busy', but he said it may take (up to) a week, so he kind of implied it would be quicker than that (I hope it will be too).
He said the interference was coming from 'further up' (i.e. not between the cabinet and the exchange and not between the cabinet and me), so somebody 'further up' has a faulty appliance interfering with the line. He said my line quality was actually very good, but the REIN was causing too many errors for OR to be 'comfortable' to close the fault. He showed me the REIN with his portable radio by pointing at the master socket and a very high-pitched buzz can be heard. However, that's all he could use so he said he'll get a 'REIN case built'.
I have attached an example of this REIN to the line (it is there all the time, but it most characteristic by these large drops in the SNRM).
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question is how does one get one of these faceplates? I mean someone who already has vdsl installed so wont be getting one from an install engineer, I guess wait for black market on ebay?
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I would also like one to try, guess I'll be looking on eBay, but then you never really know if you will get a genuine one.
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I would also like one to try, guess I'll be looking on eBay, but then you never really know if you will get a genuine one.
Wait for your line to become faulty :)
I don't know if OR are only handing them out on REIN cases (as that's how I got mine). The fact that its only improvement appears to be the addition of an RF filter, which would only help people with REIN trouble.
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question is how does one get one of these faceplates? I mean someone who already has vdsl installed so wont be getting one from an install engineer, I guess wait for black market on ebay?
Yes, I asked myself the same question two days ago. They started appearing on the famous auction site yesterday but as I have an engineer visit on Monday I will be asking him to replace mine.
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He said the interference was coming from 'further up' (i.e. not between the cabinet and the exchange and not between the cabinet and me), so somebody 'further up' has a faulty appliance interfering with the line. He said my line quality was actually very good, but the REIN was causing too many errors for OR to be 'comfortable' to close the fault. He showed me the REIN with his portable radio by pointing at the master socket and a very high-pitched buzz can be heard. However, that's all he could use so he said he'll get a 'REIN case built'.
I have attached an example of this REIN to the line (it is there all the time, but it most characteristic by these large drops in the SNRM).
I've had REIN issues for a very long while, the engineer agreed it was REIN himself but after doing his tests and even reporting to OR they will not waste too much time to try and find it. I hope they don't do the same thing to you what they have done to me, luckily I have a engineer planned for Monday. Though I do believe it will have the same outcome I need to keep pushing to get this fixed...
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AlecR ................ way, way, way too far for your job to land on my laptop. Hope you get a result ?! :)
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Me too, me too.
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black sheep I am still intrigued by "faulty ports".
As I understand an engineer to do a port swap (lift and shift) has to swap the tie pair, because they have no access to the fTTC cabinet. So these are been diagnosed as faulty ports, but it could be a bad tie pair?
Doesnt it sound odd that these cabinets which are of course expensive would have failing ports at such a high rate?
How do you normally diagnose a bad port, what are the signs? You noticed my posts lately showing a weakened D1 signal? which is the frequency under very low attenuation.
A local engineer diagnosed my issue as bad pairs rather than faulty ports. It seems tho he could have easily diagnosed it as bad ports instead.
If you diagnosing 1 a week bad you will eventually run out of ports in 2 years :)
Chrysallis
Your assumptions are bob-on. Even if it's just the actual tie-pair that is faulty, we have to be provided with a brand new port (Lift & Shift).
On a couple of occasions, I've been on-site at a notoriously 'bad Cab', when one of the PCR Engineers turns up. His remit will be to have a look at a handful of 'Faulty ports' that have been given to him, and he will then determine if it is actual ports at fault, or actually just poorly terminated cables/split-pairs ?
You ask how we diagnose a bad port ?? Very basic, crude techniques really. We certainly won't go viewing individual band-plans as a normal practice, (don't shoot the messenger -- shoot those that dictate what we are told to do and how long we have to do it in) :no:.
In simple terms, a 'bad port' will only be diagnosed as such for a relatively few types of instance. A) No synch, B) Extreme errors, C) Dropping connection, D) No PPP Session (if the 'build' on both Openreach and BTw's sides, are correct). There may be something else, but off the top of my head, I can't think of anything else ??
I, and probably many other engineers, have visited EU's that have had 20-30 engineering visits and no fault can be found. Some of these visits will have seen tests done to 'Precision Test Officers' standards (X-Talk - Impulse Noise etc), but still the DLM will drop the speed on a daily basis, after a reset.
I have personally (along with another frustrated engineer), been involved with two such cases, and both were what you would call long'ish lines. By the time we'd finished over the months, the EU's had basically had a new circuit spun from gold, but still the same DLM action would see the speeds drop day in, day out.
Only by arguing vociferously with our colleagues at the NGA helpdesk, did we manage to get 'New ports' issued on both circuits. We have not (touch bl00dy wood), heard from either of them since !!!
Point I'm labouring to make is, maybe it was a very miniscule weak connection on the tie-pairs having some affect on the band-plans ?? Or, maybe it was indeed a faulty VDSL port that to all intents and purposes, tested absolutely fine with all we would chuck at it ??
In closing, to get a 'Lift & Shift' done on ADSL is hard, but on VDSL it's easier to get an audience with the Pope. They certainly aren't done lightly. :)
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In addition, a filter has been provided to add resistance to Repetitive Electrical Interference (REIN).
Wouldn't a filter restrict the usable frequencies aswell as block unwanted ones? Thus lowering your speed whether you have REIN issues or not. In which case the MK2 would only be supplied to lines suffering REIN?
Also the speed estimates dropped for all lines not long back for seemingly no reason, maybe the reason is to factor in the loss from these MK2 faceplates.. if there is indeed a loss.
RE where to get one from, a few places other than ebay sell the "MK1", maybe they will stock the MK2 in time aswell. I bought a spare just over a year ago from pcslshop (http://www.pcslshop.com/s?defaultSearchTextValue=Search&searchKeywords=VDSL+Interstitial+Plate&Action=submit), Clarity (http://www.clarity.it/xcart/product.php?productid=16215) and run-it-direct (http://www.run-it-direct.co.uk/openreach-vdsl-faceplate.html) also have them.
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They certainly increase attenuation, when fitted. :)
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In addition, a filter has been provided to add resistance to Repetitive Electrical Interference (REIN).
Wouldn't a filter restrict the usable frequencies aswell as block unwanted ones? Thus lowering your speed whether you have REIN issues or not. In which case the MK2 would only be supplied to lines suffering REIN?
Also the speed estimates dropped for all lines not long back for seemingly no reason, maybe the reason is to factor in the loss from these MK2 faceplates.. if there is indeed a loss.
RE where to get one from, a few places other than ebay sell the "MK1", maybe they will stock the MK2 in time aswell. I bought a spare just over a year ago from pcslshop (http://www.pcslshop.com/s?defaultSearchTextValue=Search&searchKeywords=VDSL+Interstitial+Plate&Action=submit), Clarity (http://www.clarity.it/xcart/product.php?productid=16215) and run-it-direct (http://www.run-it-direct.co.uk/openreach-vdsl-faceplate.html) also have them.
Hasn't changed the attenuation on my line, nor has it reduced my sync speed.
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black sheep I am still intrigued by "faulty ports".
As I understand an engineer to do a port swap (lift and shift) has to swap the tie pair, because they have no access to the fTTC cabinet. So these are been diagnosed as faulty ports, but it could be a bad tie pair?
Doesnt it sound odd that these cabinets which are of course expensive would have failing ports at such a high rate?
How do you normally diagnose a bad port, what are the signs? You noticed my posts lately showing a weakened D1 signal? which is the frequency under very low attenuation.
A local engineer diagnosed my issue as bad pairs rather than faulty ports. It seems tho he could have easily diagnosed it as bad ports instead.
If you diagnosing 1 a week bad you will eventually run out of ports in 2 years :)
Chrysallis
Your assumptions are bob-on. Even if it's just the actual tie-pair that is faulty, we have to be provided with a brand new port (Lift & Shift).
On a couple of occasions, I've been on-site at a notoriously 'bad Cab', when one of the PCR Engineers turns up. His remit will be to have a look at a handful of 'Faulty ports' that have been given to him, and he will then determine if it is actual ports at fault, or actually just poorly terminated cables/split-pairs ?
You ask how we diagnose a bad port ?? Very basic, crude techniques really. We certainly won't go viewing individual band-plans as a normal practice, (don't shoot the messenger -- shoot those that dictate what we are told to do and how long we have to do it in) :no:.
In simple terms, a 'bad port' will only be diagnosed as such for a relatively few types of instance. A) No synch, B) Extreme errors, C) Dropping connection, D) No PPP Session (if the 'build' on both Openreach and BTw's sides, are correct). There may be something else, but off the top of my head, I can't think of anything else ??
I, and probably many other engineers, have visited EU's that have had 20-30 engineering visits and no fault can be found. Some of these visits will have seen tests done to 'Precision Test Officers' standards (X-Talk - Impulse Noise etc), but still the DLM will drop the speed on a daily basis, after a reset.
I have personally (along with another frustrated engineer), been involved with two such cases, and both were what you would call long'ish lines. By the time we'd finished over the months, the EU's had basically had a new circuit spun from gold, but still the same DLM action would see the speeds drop day in, day out.
Only by arguing vociferously with our colleagues at the NGA helpdesk, did we manage to get 'New ports' issued on both circuits. We have not (touch bl00dy wood), heard from either of them since !!!
Point I'm labouring to make is, maybe it was a very miniscule weak connection on the tie-pairs having some affect on the band-plans ?? Or, maybe it was indeed a faulty VDSL port that to all intents and purposes, tested absolutely fine with all we would chuck at it ??
In closing, to get a 'Lift & Shift' done on ADSL is hard, but on VDSL it's easier to get an audience with the Pope. They certainly aren't done lightly. :)
thanks for the insightful post :)
so every so often a guy comes out and audits the ports marked as bad and they are either marked as ok for reuse or I guess fixed if actually bad so the number of bad ports doesnt eventually fill up the cabinet :)
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Absolutely right. Once the amount of diagnosed faulty ports reaches 'x', then I'm guessing a card change is next on the cards ??
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Hasn't changed the attenuation on my line, nor has it reduced my sync speed.
Hmm, weird ?? I've not used the MK2 yet, but I imagined that there was some kind of 'coil' in place, like an RF3 filter ?? No doubt B*Cat, or one of the other techy's can enlighten us ?? :)
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. . . a card change is next on the cards ??
An appropriate, unintentional pun methinks! ;D
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lol ..... yes indeedy !! Typed whilst in between making ones chow for me and t'missus. ;D
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I've not used the MK2 yet, but I imagined that there was some kind of 'coil' in place, like an RF3 filter ?? No doubt B*Cat, or one of the other techy's can enlighten us ?? :)
I agree with the speculation that there will probably be components akin to an RF3 incorporated into the design. I feel a few tingles (via my whiskers) that the common-mode rejection circuitry has probably been enhanced to a somewhat higher specification. Not yet having seen an image of a MK2, it is all just guess-work.
As can be seen from the image of the MK1, attached below, there is some significant design to the low-pass filtering circuitry of those devices.
We really could do with a friendly and tame 'Grimbledon Down wizard' to join discussions such as this.
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Curiosity got the better of me !! Best I can do for now.
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Looks like a choke in the bottom right corner...
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Curiosity got the better of me !! Best I can do for now.
Must try harder! Your inquisitiveness is clearly not up to feline standards. :P
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Looks like a choke in the bottom right corner...
I'll agree with you that there is something new located in the bottom right-hand corner. However what caught my eye is the presence of four dual wound inductors (blue, yellow, green and white), unlike the three (blue, yellow and green) in the earlier design. Both versions appear to have nine capacitors. The original device has five resistors whereas the MK2 has only four. The original device has one component (labelled PS1 -- any suggestions as to what it might be, please?) whereas the MK2 appears to have two of those 'thingies'.
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so the MK1 has a RFI component.
The MK2 has both RFI and REIN.
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so the MK1 has a RFI component.
The MK2 has both RFI and REIN.
Are those two lines to be considered as separate questions? Or combined as one question? Or taken as a statement of fact? (If so, I hope you will please post a link to the source from whence you obtained the fact.) Or are they just wishful thinking on your part? :-\
At present the general consensus of opinion is that the MK1 is just a sophisticated low-pass filter, whereas the MK2 has added components to attempt to minimise the effect of external RFI. :)
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its a question of confirmation if I am right or wrong.
The MK2 has REIN resistance according to BS's post unless I misunderstood him.
What exactly is a low pass filter?
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A low-pass filter [1] is circuitry that passes low frequency signals from the entire spectrum of frequencies applied to its input to its output with minimal attenuation.
There will be a filter which is the inverse of the above. That will be a high-pass filter. [2] (Considering the same entire spectrum of frequencies applied to the input, as above.)
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[1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Low-pass_filter
[2] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-pass_filter
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Hmm the PS1 mystery component... Looks like a capacitor doesn't it? I'm no electronics genius by any means but I know some fundamentals. There are 'spark gap' capacitors that are used for surge protection, but they usually have a slit cut in the top, allowing current to arc across during a surge.
Interestingly the older NTE2000/2005 faceplates have 2 of these components as well, unlike the 'MK1' VDSL offering:
(https://forum.kitz.co.uk/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi27.tinypic.com%2Fkdpuac.jpg&hash=ea6ad255c239f7562f6a0548ce960830439cbfa2)
I have just seen the MK2 come up on eBay and with me being me, my curiosity has gotten the better of me, and money has been exchanged. I wonder what effect it'll have on my plain old ADSL2+ line if any. I'm particularly interested in observing any changes in SNRm drops that happen in the evening (which tend to be about a 2.5dB drop, from 6dB to 3.5dB at worst). I'm on TalkTalk LLU and the line has a 13dB attenuation as the exchange is only a few houses down the road. Our NTE5/A is the latest one with no surge arrestor and the filter in use is the Pressac VDSL SSFP (on another note I have seen another OR branded, embossed, not printed, VDSL SSFP made by LPT Technology - the PCB layout is different but the components look the same).
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I'd be interested if it has any effect Nelius, and also if you get a genuine Mk2 model!
I was interested in getting one, especially if it might help reduce the hour-long once a week or so REIN problem that's been annoying me for a while now.
Please let us know how it goes!
Ian
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yeah its probably the same seller I Seen as was the only seller.
he posted a pic of a older faceplate so I didnt order.
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There are two sellers now, one with the unbranded one but saying it's a MK2 and the other one has an image of a BTOR printed one with MK2 in the right corner, but it looks like an edited image. It did only appear yesterday though so I'm crossing my fingers. Will be able to pull it apart to compare with Black Sheep's photo though.
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I ordered one as well yesterday, and now I look at the picture again, it does indeed look like the MK2 has been added to the picture.
We'll soon see when it turns up, if it's not then it's going back, as item not as described.
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<snip>
(on another note I have seen another OR branded, embossed, not printed, VDSL SSFP made by LPT Technology - the PCB layout is different but the components look the same).
I also have a SSFP, manufactured by LPT Technology, tucked away in my grotto as a 'spare'.
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Well, it's made ZERO difference to the SNRM drop on my line and it hasn't helped the REIN either.
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I'll try to do some testing. As well as recording line stats before and after the swap, I went against my better judgement and allowed a certain operating system from Redmond be installed on a sacrificial laptop for the purposes of being able to run RouterStats Lite which supports the HG533 TalkTalk standard issue router. Not too sure what to expect as the line here is healthy (straight from the pole, through the wall into a BT80A housing gel-crimps to a few metres of CW1308 straight to the NTE5/A with no extensions) but you never know... The line does run along a pretty busy main road with lots of potentially noisy stuff along its merry way like street lights etc and I do have a DECT phone, TV, Wii, YouView box and BluRay player sitting in reasonably close proximity.
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My lovely BT friend came round, told him I was capped at a 20Mbps sync. Performed a DLM reset, went back to my normal 25.5Mbps sync without the MK2 filter on.
I asked him if he had any in his Van, he did. I asked him if he could fit it for me, he did and got a sync up to 26.7Mbps.
Added an extra 200 tones to my line, I would use up until 1538 tones now I'm using up to 1762.
So it has improved my line, yes a little but it does help!
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how did you get the BT friend to come out and stop the isp saying tough luck you above estimate?
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how did you get the BT friend to come out and stop the isp saying tough luck you above estimate?
I wasn't above my estimate, I was capped at 20Mbps with a 15 spare DS margin. My contracted estimate is 26.3/5.6, Wholesale currently show 21.8/5. Though they still use the 26.3/5.6 estimate as that is what is used in my contract.
The lady at BT refused saying my line wasn't banded/capped, I told her it was. Asked to speak to her super visor, he then said the same s**t. I asked for a Home Improvement on the basis if anything was wrong my end I would pay, but I knew it wasn't.
The engineer had been at mine several times befores, he lives in the same village and drinks in the local so I have the odd conversation with him.
I had explained I had a cap and needed a DLM reset, he done his basic test so he could mark it off on the Openreach system then done a DLM reset as requested. Synced at 25.5Mbps, then I asked him if he had any MK2 filters he said he picked them up last week. He asked what's the difference, I told him I believe they have a RF and REIN Filter. Took my RF filter and SSFP off and put the MK2 on and then I was syncing at 26.7Mbps (still have 0.5 margin free on DS/UL).
Edit: It's worth noting my errors have dropped by a good amount, got less than 200CRC in an hour and half. Previously I would get 400/500CRC on top of 300/400FEC an hour.
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Yeah I thought about going that route, telling BT to send someone out at my cost but my terms would be a pair swap, lift and shift and a junction box check then I would cough up, did you get charged for the visit in the end?
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Yeah I thought about going that route, telling BT to send someone out at my cost but my terms would be a pair swap, lift and shift and a junction box check then I would cough up, did you get charged for the visit in the end?
Nope, well time will tell but if they do add it on my bill. Pips will be getting an angry e-mail and will put it right.
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since they changed my power masking my snrm has been dropping and dropping.
it took a lot of willpower to accept a 73mbit sync, then a 68mbit sync (from a full sync) and I think its unreasonable to expect someone to just keep accepting drops and drops of sync speed for eternity. Unless it recovers I think I will be contacting BT soon with an insistance of a visit.
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Do you fancy swapping connections?
Mine went from a stable sync speed of around 30 Mbps to just over 20 Mbps over a period of a few months.
I can actually see/feel the difference every time I use the internet.
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Are you referring to me BE? If so, I have no problems doing so.
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If you don't mind, I'll politely decline your kind offer.
It is chrysalis's connection that I wouldn't mind swapping mine for :)
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If you don't mind, I'll politely decline your kind offer.
It is chrysalis's connection that I wouldn't mind swapping mine for :)
I guess a good way to cheer me up on my connection. :)
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Mines turned up today, and it has indeed got MK2 printed on it, picture attached.
I'm at work at the moment so can't do anymore, and I doubt I'll get the time tonight to have a play, will update when I do.
Edit: In fact have two more ;D
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please pm the seller thanks.
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I think mine may have arrived today but we missed the post. Off to the sorting office first thing tomorrow morning before work....
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Collected and installed this morning (genuine MK2), will start graphing SNRm over the next day or so and will compare with what I captured with the old one. But here are line stats, showing slightly higher sync with the MK2 (but I could get that with the MK1 as well sometimes). Curiously no difference in attenuation etc but only 1 error second in 10 hours of uptime as opposed to 1 every hour or so before...
Before:
Upstream line rate (kbit/s) 1020
Downstream line rate (kbit/s) 19205
Line standard ADSL2+
Channel type
Interleaved
Upstream SNR (dB) 8.5
Downstream SNR (dB) 6
Upstream line attenuation (dB) 6.8
Downstream line attenuation (dB) 13
Upstream output power (dBmV) 10.5
Downstream output power (dBmV) 0
After:
Upstream line rate (kbit/s) 1020
Downstream line rate (kbit/s) 19470
Line standard ADSL2+
Channel type
Interleaved
Upstream SNR (dB) 8.5
Downstream SNR (dB) 6
Upstream line attenuation (dB) 6.8
Downstream line attenuation (dB) 13
Upstream output power (dBmV) 10.5
Downstream output power (dBmV) 0
Will post graphs after I get the MK2 results but the graph for the MK1 shows a few random drops in SNR for short periods throughout the 10 hour period I captured (RouterStats Lite wouldn't hold connection to the router reliably - I really wanted 24 hours).
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Here are the SNRm results, graphs show a 10 hour period each. Only managed to collect one for the daytime before the switch but have a day and night one for after. Interestingly, or not perhaps, the dips in SNRm aren't affected by the MK2 SSFP. In fact there are more during the day with it but there were times before when it would look like that as well so, based on that, I don't think it has made a difference.
The kids were at home all day when the second set of results was collected which may have contributed to it, with them using various devices during the day. Other than that, the drops seem to occur randomly, not coinciding with the phone ringing etc. They seem to have no effect on the quality of the connection or line stability. Error rate seems to be okay as well. Getting perhaps 1 ES per hour or so, but sometimes it can go for hours without accumulating any ES at all. Certainly not something that bothers me anyway...
MK1 during the day:
(https://forum.kitz.co.uk/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1342.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fo776%2Fneilmartin83%2F4e894c788109b84c656e11d30a5693e2_zps585910d6.jpg&hash=11fa4cb6ebfcad5dfa863a124720e08ee77d62c9)
MK2 during the day:
(https://forum.kitz.co.uk/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1342.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fo776%2Fneilmartin83%2F8a2e9c6eddc6d5b911fe57c7942a2d1c_zps137e2dda.jpg&hash=e69a65453ca511f4f5cfc7e4ff41663a484e5a91)
MK2 during the night:
(https://forum.kitz.co.uk/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1342.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fo776%2Fneilmartin83%2F3c314d43bc59029529d57c34502a8582_zps87e94f8e.jpg&hash=2307afe2335575b59d4baeb181b318d3d4e80023)
Errors accumulated in the last 2 days since fitting the MK2:
Upstream CRC 731
Downstream CRC 0
Upstream FEC 42209
Downstream FEC 0
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Just fitted my Mk2 plate, slight increase in DS speeds, and a slight drop in US. Prior to changing the filer my attainable was slightly lower than my sync.
13/10/2013 15:00 - RESYNC detected (DS 46529 Kbps, US 9036 Kbps), AS = 22, Retrain Reason: 0
26/10/2013 10:18 - RESYNC detected (DS 46752 Kbps, US 8868 Kbps), AS = 74, Retrain Reason: 0
Snapshot graphs attached.
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Sorry to intervene, but nelius' stats mention ADSL2+ and not VDSL. I'm confused!
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Yep I'm on ADSL2+, was interested to see if this filter made any difference, especially with the interference rejection that's been added.
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Were you, should you have been surprised int worked on ADSL?
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Just for you, b*cat:
I had a very close look at my old SSFP and it turns out that the mystery PS1 component is a KT250-145BL resettable fuse, providing over-current protection. Looks like it's in line with the green ferrite and the B wire (assuming that big yellow capacitor is for ringing current as that's where the trace goes to) on the filtered side of the circuit.
http://www.betterfuse.com/products/html/detail-00140.html
renluop, I wasn't sure what difference it would make but it's nice having a decent filtering solution on the line anyway. These SSFPs do help ADSL a little bit in some cases too and are compatible with it.
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mine came today but not using it yet.
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Just for you, b*cat:
I had a very close look at my old SSFP and it turns out that the mystery PS1 component is a KT250-145BL resettable fuse, providing over-current protection. Looks like it's in line with the green ferrite and the B wire (assuming that big yellow capacitor is for ringing current as that's where the trace goes to) on the filtered side of the circuit.
http://www.betterfuse.com/products/html/detail-00140.html
Thank you Neil. That's another little mystery solved.
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I must say I think it might have improved the stability of my connection a little bit. It has also increased my sync speed, but only ever so slightly.
I have the latest firmware from the beattie agent but have not flashed the GUI back so can't do all that much testing.But I have been using BE1's get current stats scripts. Previously I would get a resync roughly every three days or so. When I first installed the plate, my connection resynced at exactly the same frequency, roughly every three days, but when I checked this morning, it has been running for 6 days and counting! Now whether that's just blind luck or whether these new filters have done the job I don't know tbh, I don't run the continuous scripts but when I last did, it used to show random spikes in the SNRm related to not much, although my line is far outperforming the BTw broadband checker speed tests which quote a speed of 43Mbps, whereas my sync speed is 66834.
Frankly I don't understand why its not full speed 80, because by walking distance my cabinet is just over 200m away, but I live on a triangle so possibly its going a huge way round which could double it to almost 400m, or else there's the dreaded aluminium present.
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This filter has actually done me wonders, from 23/24Mbps to 27.7Mbps. It has removed a vast amount of Interference but I have some more to get rid of as of yet!
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This filter has actually done me wonders, from 23/24Mbps to 27.7Mbps. It has removed a vast amount of Interference but I have some more to get rid of as of yet!
Don't think this VDSL MKII would work for me as I have the Master Socket MK1 setup for the Data Kit socket in another room.
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Don't think this VDSL MKII would work for me as I have the Master Socket MK1 setup for the Data Kit socket in another room.
Does your data extension plug into the socket of the SSFP or does the pair connect via the IDCs behind the lower front face plate?
If the former, it would be a simple swap. If the latter, the two IDCs would need to be remade.
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Don't think this VDSL MKII would work for me as I have the Master Socket MK1 setup for the Data Kit socket in another room.
Does your data extension plug into the socket of the SSFP or does the pair connect via the IDCs behind the lower front face plate?
If the former, it would be a simple swap. If the latter, the two IDCs would need to be remade.
it connects behind the lower front face plate BC
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it connects behind the lower front face plate BC
Ah, I see. So you would need to own / borrow / acquire a punch-down tool to make the new connections . . .
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it connects behind the lower front face plate BC
Ah, I see. So you would need to own / borrow / acquire a punch-down tool to make the new connections . . .
I do have one, but going into back of face plate is the Openreach Side not the EU i think :no:
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I do have one, but going into back of face plate is the Openreach Side not the EU i think :no:
Everything that plugs into the "test socket" of the NTE5/A is actually within the EU's domain. That include the SSFP. :)
Your "data extension" is wired to the pair of IDCs on the SSFP, which are exposed once the lower front face-plate is removed. The SSFP, the "data extension" wiring and the "data extension socket" are all within your domain. Openreach have given them all to you, as part of your FTTC service provision.
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I do have one, but going into back of face plate is the Openreach Side not the EU i think :no:
Everything that plugs into the "test socket" of the NTE5/A is actually within the EU's domain. That include the SSFP. :)
Your "data extension" is wired to the pair of IDCs on the SSFP, which are exposed once the lower front face-plate is removed. The SSFP, the "data extension" wiring and the "data extension socket" are all within your domain. Openreach have given them all to you, as part of your FTTC service provision.
Many thanks for clearing that up was not sure how deep I can go into the FTTC Master Socket and with the above explanations thats does help if and when I get a VDSL MKII face plate.
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Many thanks for clearing that up was not sure how deep I can go into the FTTC Master Socket and with the above explanations thats does help if and when I get a VDSL MKII face plate.
You're welcome. :)
It can get rather confusing. I have read of one occasion where Beattie charged an EU for replacing a defective lower front face-plate of an NTE5/A. Her logic was that as it plugged into the "test socket" it was, therefore, the EU's property/responsibility and was a chargeable task. >:(
Use the image, below, for reference. What you see there (and anything "behind" it) is in Beattie's domain. Anything "built on" from there ("forwards") is in the EU's domain -- lower front face-plate, SSFP, etc.
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I tested recently by swapping the MK1 SSFP to a MK2 resulting in the downstream SNRM increasing from 6.4 to 6.6 but the upstream SNRM decreased from 9.4 to 8.7.
Has anyone else seen a drop in the upstream SNRM after swapping to a MK2?
EDIT: Seems it wasn't the MK2 causing the upstream SNRM to drop to 8.7. I did xdslcmd connection --down and then --up and it's now back to the usual 9.4.
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my connection been down for about 4 hours now, I plugged in the vdsl mk2 faceplate although the issue isnt my sync its the PPPoE connection, the sync rate is about 1mbit down (to be expected I guess as my snrm was going lower). 80 crc errors on downstream in 3 hours. Prior to the change been averaging over 600-1000 day which would be approx 33 hour, conclusion? not much difference.
I havent rang BT yet regarding the pppoe outage as I was hoping it would come back up itself, but I guess I need to deal with their call centre :(
3g tethering currently.
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The MK2 are being brought out as with anything technology improves. However always some people will find an improvement and some people will not. I carry these as I fit them on all the fibre jobs I do, however I do occassionally fit them on ADSL jobs, and 9 times out of 10 they'll make a difference, not usually a huge one but a small one. Noticeable more on a long line. They're stabilioty against Impulse Noise Bursts is markedly better to the older version.
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BT fixed my PPP during the night (their tech support a nightmare tho nearly 2 hours on phone to them telling them to raise fault instead of asking me to reboot router), it was very easily a BT side issue as well since their status page said a fault in my area started 2.54pm but fixed 20 mins later, except mine started 2.54pm but was ongoing, yet the guy in india couldnt put 2 and 2 together and insisted following numerous scripts. Rant over.
Todays stats shine a slightly different light on the MK2 affect on my line.
Now the downstream CRC rate is not that far off the upstream rate although I do have an extra 1db snrm which will affect it a bit. At 16 hours and half have 241 CRC errors down and 174 CRC errors up.
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I tested recently by swapping the MK1 SSFP to a MK2 resulting in the downstream SNRM increasing from 6.4 to 6.6 but the upstream SNRM decreased from 9.4 to 8.7.
Has anyone else seen a drop in the upstream SNRM after swapping to a MK2?
got a MK2 VDSL plate to replace my mk1, I do have impulse/REIN noise coming from next door almost whenever they are in, the sync speed gets impacted only slightly on FTTC but real bad on ADSL2+ upto 8mbit/s downstream.
my upstream is slightly impacted at first glance, maybe 0.1 db down but it's roughly the same.
However my downstream SNRM actually went up 0.4db over 6db, the sync speed went up nearly 2mbit's. most importantly all FEC errors down significantly ( by a factor of 100 ) the other errors after the first hour of installation seem to have gone from a few to zero.
Seems that this MK2 filter does work better on impulse noise/REIN impacted lines, then again by the design of it thats what it's supposed to do. It' should be very similar to the mk1 otherwise.
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Installed a MK2 faceplate this morning, so far it has nudged my downstream speed up by another megabit or so.
Current Results:
Max: Upstream rate = 29547 Kbps, Downstream rate = 100780 Kbps
Bearer: 0, Upstream rate = 20000 Kbps, Downstream rate = 68999 Kbps
The attainable rate hardly changes for me no matter what time of day it is, a variance of at most 500-750Kbps on the downstream and upstream. I'll update after 24 hours or so once I have sufficient statistics to know whether or not it has reduced my errored seconds and/or CRC's. My sync rate is deliberately 68999 because I've done 'xdslcmd configure --maxDataRate 69000 20000 89000' to see if I can do what I did over a year ago (stick DLM into a banding state with no interleaving applied, at the moment I'm interleaved at INP 3 with delay 8).
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Are these MK2 the same as ADSLNation faceplate http://www.adslnation.com/products/xte2005.php
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Are these MK2 the same as ADSLNation faceplate http://www.adslnation.com/products/xte2005.php
No, Max, they are not. :no:
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ok just order genuine mk2 from ebay £12.49 inc P&P.
eBay item number:
321293245028
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ok just order genuine mk2 from ebay £12.49 inc P&P.
eBay item number:
321293245028
Right, that seems to be around the average "going price" once the P&P has been included. :)
Perhaps you will let us know of your experience, once it has been installed for (say) a week?
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ok just order genuine mk2 from ebay £12.49 inc P&P.
eBay item number:
321293245028
Mine was a bit cheaper on eBay, though seems genuine and has so far made a difference (will post error stats tomorrow when 24 hours are up). It was £4.99 + £3.00 postage (first class). Assuming forum rules permit, I'll post eBay link if requested.
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Just an update to say that it appears my errored seconds have dropped by around 50 to 60 percent compared to the usual amount I had on the original faceplate (MK1?).
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Before on adslnation faceplate:
sync: 17559k snr: 3.1dB line att: 30.5dB CRC errors (24 hours): 1077
New on openreach mk2 faceplate:
sync: 17615k snr: 3.1dB line att: 30.5dB CRC errors (24 hours): 15
Much improvement! ;
[attachment deleted by admin]
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A good result, Max. :thumbs:
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Not sure if they can be trusted but a user on BTs forum claims the MK2s have a small issue:
"Id hold off getting one of these untill they have fixed the rein filter issues..."
"Doesnt cause any issues. Its just not very effective and a new revision is being implemented to bring it up to standard."
https://community.bt.com/t5/BT-Infinity-Speed-Connection/VDSL-MK2-front-plate-avalibility/m-p/1131516#M122564
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Hope that isn't the case (unless it will benefit my connection) as I've recently purchased two.
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This filter has done work on my connection, instantly grabbed me 4db back on DS.
Connection has been rock steady for many months now, I still have some REIN but that's to be expected where I live.
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I brought one of these... I was syncing at 75 meg now 76meg so cannot complain. The Line attenuation went up by 0.1 mind but who cares if you are getting more speed. :D Happy either way. :P
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I brought one of these... I was syncing at 75 meg now 76meg so cannot complain. The Line attenuation went up by 0.1 mind but who cares if you are getting more speed. :D Happy either way. :P
It's more likely to benefactor with people with longer connections, as there is more chance of REIN or RFI. You will find your line attenuation will change a tiny amount when you re-sync sometimes, the filter is very likely to be the cause of that 0.1 and is really irrelevant.
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I think it's not an issue unless your line is impacted, then all that will happen is it's not as effective in defending your line.
Just ordered one anyway, the neighbours house alarm has started playing up and theres noise accross the whole band. When they turn it off attainable goes up 3Mb so it'll be interesting what happens.
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Not sure if they can be trusted but a user on BTs forum claims the MK2s have a small issue:
"Id hold off getting one of these untill they have fixed the rein filter issues..."
"Doesnt cause any issues. Its just not very effective and a new revision is being implemented to bring it up to standard."
https://community.bt.com/t5/BT-Infinity-Speed-Connection/VDSL-MK2-front-plate-avalibility/m-p/1131516#M122564
Did anything come of this? Was it nonsense? True, and now fixed? or ?
I was about to order a Mk2, then remembered this thread. Should I wait to see if a revised version appears?
Ian
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Hmm ?? I've not heard of any issues with the MK2 ?? Yes, there was a bad batch got out into the field once, the actual plates wouldn't allow ADSL/VDSL synch, but would allow the PSTN frequency through it.
Is 'Deathtrap' on the BT Community in touch with the Chief Engineers Office, or our boffins at Adastral park ?? How does he know they're not effective ?? Ask him for proof or where he's got his info from, I'm not saying he's bulling, I'd like to know myself but am not going on a BT Forum.
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Hmm ?? I've not heard of any issues with the MK2 ?? Yes, there was a bad batch got out into the field once, the actual plates wouldn't allow ADSL/VDSL synch, but would allow the PSTN frequency through it.
Is 'Deathtrap' on the BT Community in touch with the Chief Engineers Office, or our boffins at Adastral park ?? How does he know they're not effective ?? Ask him for proof or where he's got his info from, I'm not saying he's bulling, I'd like to know myself but am not going on a BT Forum.
As it was only one source, and especially as you say you've not heard of any issues with the MK2s, then I'm going to presume he's "bulling", or has got a confused version of the story of the bad batch you mention.
As a result, I'm comfortable ordering one now, once I decide which well-known auction site seller looks the most trustworth. I don't want to pay £10 and receive an LJ2/1A that's got "MK2" crudely written on with a magic marker pen. :no:
Ian
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Ye Gods ...... I hope 'Deathtrap' doesn't turn out to be BT's single-point-of-contact for all things 'MK2 faceplate' related, and is the foremost leading expert on the subject ??
Still, I'd go ahead and purchase one, Ian. LOL at 2/1A with MK2 scribbled across it ..... :lol: :lol:
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As a result, I'm comfortable ordering one now, once I decide which well-known auction site seller looks the most trustworth. I don't want to pay £10 and receive an LJ2/1A that's got "MK2" crudely written on with a magic marker pen. :no:
Ian
I can personally recommend this one (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/321316745175), I actually picked mine up from the guys house :P A few others on here and TBB forums have also ordered from him.
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Ha ha, looking at the link it appears one of our boys is taking 'Capitalism' to its fullest meaning ? ;) :)
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As I was reading the replies, my Sunday evening REIN arrived early! This is the reason I'm keen to mitigate it's effects as much as possible.
I'm pleased to find that switching from the TalkTalk HG533 to the BT HG612 has made a distinct improvement. Previously, when the REIN started, the connection would hang for around 5 minutes on 0.2db SNR, then resynch around 2meg lower than is usual in normal conditions.
The BT HG612 SNR drops from 6.1 to around 2, but hangs onto the line. Bitswaps and errors shoot up, but so far it remains useable, though a speedtest.net just now showed my throughput had dropped from a very flat 16meg to an very up and downy 10Meg.
Now that I'm plotting the REIN and it's timings, I'm hoping to correlate it to .. well, something. I reckon it might be TV related, as it seems to start just before or just after the hour, and run for 60 or 90 minutes - ie a long TV show/film ? Usually Sundays, occasionally another day in the week as well (ie right now)
Ian
ps sorry bit off topic, but this is the reason I'm looking to get a MK2 to further reduce the effects of the noise!
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The MK2 doesnt always mean will get a boost, however I have never seen anyone report a MK2 making their line worse, so I would go ahead and get one.
Plus black sheep has been deploying them in the field so I respect his word on this.
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The MK2 doesnt always mean will get a boost, however I have never seen anyone report a MK2 making their line worse, so I would go ahead and get one.
Plus black sheep has been deploying them in the field so I respect his word on this.
"Not making things worse" isn't much consolation when you have paid out money for nothing, and consumer protection legislation doesn't cut in above a specific price. A negligible amount to a millionaire isn't the same for a schoolchild.
I recall someone slagging off the I plate as it didn't make any difference for him after it had been advertised as "Magic Accelerator ! " - fair comment.
It would be very useful if performance was specified properly so as not to raise false expectations. For instance this faceplate may well reduce interference but not if it comes in via the power line !
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It would be very useful if performance was specified properly so as not to raise false expectations. For instance this faceplate may well reduce interference but not if it comes in via the power line !
In my case it seems to be coming in on both the phone line and the mains. The mains is radiating it around a fair area - I can hear it as a strong buzzing noise whilst I walk up and down the road with a MW radio.
Isolating my modem from the mains, by running it from a 12volt car battery (as I did last night) doesn't seem to make any difference at all during the interference, although I was unable to completely isolate it due to LAN cables linking it to other mains connected equipment.
I shall probably order my Mk2 over the weekend, if nothing else it'll be interesting to see what it does/doesn't achieve :)
Ian
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I ordered my Mk2 faceplate from the seller mentioned earlier in the thread. I'd say I got about an extra 1mbps downstream and 0.2 mbps upstream. Nothing earth shattering, but still an improvement.
From speedtest.net I get about 36.8mbps on a 950m line to the cabinet.
The biggest speed improvement for me was moving from the HG612 modem over to the ECI, and I'm on an ECI DSLAM. I got about a 4 mbps increase by doing that.
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Did anything come of this? Was it nonsense? True, and now fixed? or ?
He hasn't updated the thread and I've not been on the forum since posting that so don't know if he's posted info elsewhere in the forum. Not seen anyone else report the same as him either. So I suppose it's take with a pinch of salt.
I bought one and it didn't have any adverse effects but then the claimed issue wouldn't.
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My MK2 purchase arrived yesterday, and I fitted it with much glee.
Some before/after stats on my ADSL2+ line, using a BT HG612 - with a big caveat after
Item Attainable Actual Attainable Actual Attenuation S/N Margin
UP UP DOWN DOWN UP DOWN UP DOWN
before reboot 1252 1020 21480 20412 10.1 20.5 14 5.5
After reboot 1268 1020 21492 19952 10.1 20.5 14.7 6.1
With MK2 1224 1020 21484 19967 10.1 20.5 12.6 6.1
2nd reboot with MK2 1220 1020 21492 19944 10.1 20.5 12.5 6.1
So, swapping from a Mk1 to a MK2 VDSL plate did not affect attenuation or synch speeds in my case.
The drop in UP S/N margin is odd, and puzzled me. It corresponded to me seeing about 30 "UP" bitswaps per second, which I'd never seen before. This continued after rebooting the modem.
I wondered if I'd done something wrong, and disconnected it all then reassembled, but the problem remained.
However, about 2 hours later the UP S/N margin returned to previous levels, and currently it's at 15.8 . Rogue bit of interference? Something settling in? Who knows ???
Finally, 3 QLN plots : the first from the day before, the 2nd after a reboot and finally the 3rd following the swap to the MK2 VDSL.
Seems to be almost no difference!
So, for me it has so far not made anything better, nor worse, although possibly I'm seeing fewer bitswaps and errors (now that it's settled down) but I need to monitor a bit longer for that.
Hope that's of some interest :D
Ian
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I just wish my line was as quiet as that! :-X
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Installed MK2 faceplate yesterday it was a bit fiddly to get the data extension wires into IDC sockets using punchdown tool had to strip off some of the plastic covering to get it to punchdown.
Unfortunately the RFI is still coming in during the evenings yet there is a very very slight improvement on missing tones in the evening but this could be down to daily fluctuations the attenuation has gone up from 24.6 dB to 25.0 dB but don't know if this is down to the faceplate or the extension IDC connections I made.
So to sum it all up I was hopeing to see a big impact on RFI but no luck there and never expected any increase in speeds, so stick with the MK1 and save yourself a tenner ;)
EDIT: the attenuation has recovered to 24.7 dB after a HG612 reboot this evening don't why but thats good.
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Hi all,
I'm hoping one of you experts can answer two (hopefully) easy questions for me.
I'm fixing up the wiring in a house with currently dismal ADSL speeds, and this new Mk2 VDSL Interstitial Plate looks like exactly what I need; but I don't know exactly what's inside it, so I have two specific questions:
1) I know that the original iPlate was not supposed to be used with the latest NTE5As as they are already fitted with filtering (though I haven't looked carefully enough to be sure whether fitting the two together actually caused any problems, or whether it was simply completely unnecessary). The NTE5A already in the house is actually pretty recent --- it has a bell-wire filter --- so can anybody tell me whether this will cause any problem if I add in the Mk2 VDSL Interstitial Plate?
runITdirect seem to suggest that the Mk2 works with any of the following NTE5As, so I'm guessing there should be no conflict, but it would be nice to be certain:
http://www.run-it-direct.co.uk/btbroadbandacceleratoralternative.html (http://www.run-it-direct.co.uk/btbroadbandacceleratoralternative.html)
http://www.run-it-direct.co.uk/nte5-nte5a-bt-openreach-socket.html (http://www.run-it-direct.co.uk/nte5-nte5a-bt-openreach-socket.html)
http://www.run-it-direct.co.uk/openreach-branded-nte5-master-socket.html (http://www.run-it-direct.co.uk/openreach-branded-nte5-master-socket.html)
I can probably dig out an older NTE5 if there is a problem...
2) The line drop comes in through an RF3 junction box (radio repeater mast on the hill behind the house --- as far as I can tell it previously had an RF2). I know that the Mk2 VDSL Interstitial Plate also contains filtering: will having both degrade the signal, or will the Mk2 Plate work well with the RF3?
In the worst case I can just crimp out the component, but it's easier to ask an expert than work out what it's doing myself (especially as I don't know exactly what's inside the Mk2).
Thanks for any light you can shed!
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Sympathise with you because hard information on devices seems hard to get - doing it by numbers doesn't work for interference ! You do need to sort out what you are trying to do before selecting hardware.
The Filtered Faceplate MK2 is aimed at VDSL so it covers a bandwidth up to 17 MHz and can't be expected to do as good a job on ADSL as a Mk1 assuming MK1 is wired to make ADSL available only at the master socket. This stops the extension wiring acting as an interference aerial, so you probably won't need a RF3 unless the pickup is strong enough to affect phones too.
You say "radio repeater " - any idea of frequency ? RF2 was aimed at Long & Medium wave BC stations ( and can clobber ADSL !)
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1) I know that the original iPlate was not supposed to be used with the latest NTE5As as they are already fitted with filtering <snip>
:no: That is incorrect.
The NTE5A already in the house is actually pretty recent --- it has a bell-wire filter --- so can anybody tell me whether this will cause any problem if I add in the Mk2 VDSL Interstitial Plate?
The SSFP (Service Specific Face Plate, to give it its full name) is designed for use with any revision of NTE5/A. So the answer to your question is there will be no problem. :)
2) The line drop comes in through an RF3 junction box (radio repeater mast on the hill behind the house --- as far as I can tell it previously had an RF2). I know that the Mk2 VDSL Interstitial Plate also contains filtering: will having both degrade the signal, or will the Mk2 Plate work well with the RF3?
The original SSFP (retrospectively referred to as the Mk1) was designed for VDSL2 usage and is fully backwards compatible. I.e. Compatible with any xDSL service. The Mk2 SSFP is just an enhancement of the Mk1 and, again, is fully compatible with any xDSL service (G.Dmt, ADSL2, ADSL2+, VDSL2).
In essence, I can see nothing "wrong" with a circuit that has a BT80-RF3, NTE5/A and SSFP installed. It doesn't matter whether the circuit is operating in G.Dmt mode or VDSL2 mode . . .
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I would not recommend using an RF3 on a vdsl2 connection that used any tones above about 2000. I tried one as test on my connection see: http://forum.kitz.co.uk/index.php?topic=13420.msg259441#msg259441 . Using it on vdsl2 exposes the rf3's frequency response for differential mode signals.
The RF3 generally gives a smooth roll off, but the attenuation produced seems different either side of tone 512 ??? There looks to be a bit more attenuation added at the end of the adsl2 range than at the start of the the vdsl2 range.
I tried an RF3 on adsl2 a while ago and it caused an attainable drop of about 1 mb/s on a 16 mb/s connection. I expect it would have less negative impact if the attainable was less.
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even on adsl1 it caused me a lower sync speed (years ago), I probably had a slight boost of stability but wasnt significant.
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b*cat waits for Black Sheep (when time permits) to remind us of the advise issued to Openreach technicians, as a result of extensive research carried out by the Wizards of Grimbledon Down . . .
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Mr Cat (as always) is correct.
Our 'Bible' (ISIS Library) states that ....... 'It has been found that the SSFP RF3 filtering functionality has some limitations and will not prevent REIN faults in all cases.
The existing stand-alone RF3 may still be required to assist in solving Rein Faults, and can be fitted even when the Mk2 VDSL SSFP is in situ'.
There has been a component change agreed with the supplier that will bring the performance of the RF3 element of the SSFP up to the standard of the existing RF3. It will then of course, need to undergo tests. :)
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b*cat purrs "Thank you" in the direction of the sheep-pen. ;)
I now have a vision of all the "watchers" looking out for the first appearance of Mk3 VDSL SSFPs "in the wild". ::)
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that will bring the performance of the RF3 element of the SSFP up to the standard of the existing RF3.)
I hope the MK3 designers try to achieve the current RF3 common mode rejection without its current differential mode performance. Judging by the current RF3 impact on vdls2 (see my post above) the differential mode frequency response needs to be moved up by a factor of 10 to only produce only a small negative impact on vdsl2 comparable with the current RF3's impact on asdl2.
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even on adsl1 it caused me a lower sync speed (years ago), I probably had a slight boost of stability but wasn't significant.
I also had a marginal speed drop on ADSL1; even though more tones came out of the noise at the high frequency end, there was a drop in the bits/tone lower down.
I wonder - how well is the input capacitance of modems controlled ? Extra capacitance effectively across the RF3 output could make a mess of a flat response !
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Many thanks to all for the excellent and detailed advice, especially to Mr Sheep:
Our 'Bible' (ISIS Library) states that ....... 'It has been found that the SSFP RF3 filtering functionality has some limitations and will not prevent REIN faults in all cases.
The existing stand-alone RF3 may still be required to assist in solving Rein Faults, and can be fitted even when the Mk2 VDSL SSFP is in situ'.
Things were more or less as I had guessed — in fact, I had added a replacement RF3 to my parts order, so I could try clipping out the choke if necessary, but I suspect the line will be better with it in as all the flats round here I've managed to check have an RF2 from before the days of ADSL. (There's a mast on the hill behind the house relaying, as far as I know, AM, FM, and TV for most of a town of 50,000.)
I'll let you know what happens if I find time to try the experiment, but my goals are more modest than most of you here I think: right now I'm just trying to turn a slow and unreliable connection into a solid and reasonably fast one.
Besides, it's sometimes not the wiring technology, per se, that makes the greatest difference. The biggest improvement I ever made to an ADSL installation was to buy a new PSU for my downstairs neighbour, to replace the piece of junk he was using with his laptop (and thereby enabling the whole block to receive AM radio, into the bargain).!
As a friend of my replied to his ex- when she asked him what he thought of her fabulously expensive new hi-fi: "Well, I think you could have gotten the same improvement cheaper if you'd just switched off the washing machine and shot the dog!"
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Besides, it's sometimes not the wiring technology, per se, that makes the greatest difference. The biggest improvement I ever made to an ADSL installation was to buy a new PSU for my downstairs neighbour, to replace the piece of junk he was using with his laptop (and thereby enabling the whole block to receive AM radio, into the bargain).!
Yes agree 100% BUT one can't always identify the source, let alone replace/shut it down. Also it is often the total effect of many sources, so one tries to avoid receiving them, and occasionally, re boot because DLM has over-reacted to a spike.
Regarding your HiFi story isn't it simply a case of More Expensive=Better; blow what it sounds like !
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I have spent about 7 months tracking down RFI in my premises, the culprits which I have found to produce RFI in the Home which effects the Modem and you have to remember an eletrical arc cause's a large spectrum of frequencys to be emitted, here are some below that effects me.
1. HomePlugs 90%
2. Radio China International AM 89%
2. Older FreeView Boxes pre 2005 70%
3. Old Oil Boiler switch 65%
4. Pull Cord Switch for Lights 50%
5. Fluorescence Strip Lights 38%
6. cooker switch 28%
7. Security Lighting (halogen) 20%
8. Led PC Monitor 10%
So when you think about it your modem is being hit by RFI 24/7 from all sides and that MKII is a worthless peice of S*** at the moment ;)