Kitz Forum
Computers & Hardware => Networking => Topic started by: Berrick on September 05, 2013, 09:25:37 AM
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Hi All,
looking for peoples experience of using powerline hardware, model numbers in particular, to distribute ethernet.
I have used them once for a friend and they worked very well but was interested in others experience.
TY in advance
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Well I've been using a pair now for about 18 months with no problems at all.
Stuart
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TY Stuart,
What make/model are they?
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Used TP-Link PA-211 units with no problems, at our old place and my parent's house. Nowhere near the quoted 200mbps, or even 100mbps (link speed they connect at with the port), more like 30-50mbps in my experience. No idea if the house wiring had anything to do with it, but I do believe it was over 2 ring mains (upstairs and downstairs plugs). That's megabits too.
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Cheers neilius,
House wiring can have a big impact but the throughput is more than adequate for the needs of this user.
In fact I am looking at the following DEVOLO-DLAN-500-WIFI-POWERLINE as they want better WiFi coverage without wires going to additional AP's
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TY Stuart,
What make/model are they?
I knew you would ask that and if I remember correctly they are DEVOLO-DLAN-500 but not wi-fi.
I think the better make you can get which is usually not the cheapo end of the market the more reliable they are. Mine connects to a Wireless Access Point.
Stuart
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I think the better make you can get which is usually not the cheapo end of the market the more reliable they are
I agree totally. Devolo must be confident as they are offering 36 months warranty ;D
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Just to add here, my Devolo are actually the 200 models not the 500s I thought ::)
Anyway I now need to placate 'the boss' and upgrade to a wireless powerline adapter (cant hide my Wireless AP anymore) :'( So what if any are folks experience with these wireless beasts? I am looking at the Devolo 500 wireless ones but just wonder if anyone here is using any different makes?
Stuart
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Don't do it, please. They will interfere with your broadband and make it worse.
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Don't do it, please. They will interfere with your broadband and make it worse.
Currently I run the 200mbps Devolos into an access point and get the same speeds as I get wired which is about 7.8mbps so what's to lose? I have an 8mbps ADSL2+ connection!
Stuart
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bk, I need you!
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I also have been using TP-Link PA-211 for ages and no problems.
I have a pair of newer/faster versions still in box.
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bk, I need you!
Some people are lucky, some people are unlucky. :shrug2:
If it works, then good. :-X However I would never use such devices. :no:
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Well I have just pluged some back in so it will be a test to see if they affect my stats.
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I'd avoid them myself. But I'd avoid wireless even more, so if you can't have wired LAN, then powerline may be the lesser of evils compared with wireless.
One thing to observe... the instructions will probably say not to use them on extension sockets, but may be vague as to what they mean by it. In fact, they depend upon the solid core mains wiring, so they need to be plugged directly into a wall socket. Plugging them into a trailing extension socket may seriously compromise their performance.
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The problem with only having wired lan is that all smart phones and tablets wont work. If powerline devices are really as bad as some folks appear to think why are they selling so well? I have been looking around and have yet to find any convincing arguments for not using (or at least trying) them.
For historical reasons my master socket is upstairs and so is the router (HG622), I have turned off wireless on the router as it simply does not work well even right next to it, and downstairs getting a decent signal was almost impossible, running cat5/6 is a no go as there is no where to hide it - hence the powerline and access point. Now the a/p location has to change and my wife does not want to see a box with flashing lights anywhere obvious so a wireless powerline is the only option to hide it.
This is the background to my request for peoples experience of using them. For me not using them is NOT an option, even in the future if the master socket was downstairs my PC's are upstairs so I'd still need them!
Stuart
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I agree wireless is pretty much a 'must have', but I'd restrict its use to smart phones and tablets. Anything more 'serious', such as a 'smart' TV with iplayer, I'd want either wired or powerline.
My only first hand experience of using them was setting up a youview box that came free with some BT package I helped to install. They worked OK, but I found them less practical than anticipated owing the fact that you either had to 'lose' a wall socket that could otherwise have had an extension plugged in, or piggy back the extension on the 'powerline' adapter, which made it awfully bulky. Sorry, don't know what brand that was.
Also, if flashing lights are to be avoided, pretty sure the ones above had LEDs of some kind, don't remember whether they flashed with traffic, or how bright they were.
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Thanks 7lm, thing about the powerlines in that you can use a socket which is behind some small piece of furniture which means you cant see the LEDs where most A/Ps are quite large and difficult to hide ;) Many of the powerlines now have a mains socket passthru.
I have to use wireless for the laptop my wife uses as she wants to be able to use it anywhere, including the garden in summer ;) As for smart TVs well my chances of getting my wife to agree one of those is between 0 and none :-X
Stuart
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Well since I had to do something to remove the old access point I bit the bullet this morning and purchased a TP-Link TL-WPA4220KIT which is a 500Mbps powerline set with wireless N connectivity.
I am quite impressed by the features which are pretty much the same as a normal access point which allows mac filtering. Yes I know you can spoof mac addresses or change them on some devices but it does mean there is just a bit more for anyone wishing to be naughty, and it has all the various security options one would expect ;)
I have now got it all installed and running and my laptop still gets the same speed results on Thinkbroadband speed tester as yesterday using my old wireless G a/p and it is connected at 300Mbps according to Windows 7. So it would seem that the TP-Link hardware is at least as good as the Devolo I was using.
The wireless homeplug in this kit also has two rj-45 connectors so I could hardwire a smart TV if I am allowed one in the future, or any other devices that I may have in future downstairs.
So now if I want faster speeds I need to go FTTC 8)
Stuart
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If powerline devices are really as bad as some folks appear to think why are they selling so well? I
They were bad for my setup was seeing upto half a million FEC errors per minute, and the weird part my PC is connected direct to router using Lan Cable, so it looks like the Powerline Adapters was Interfereing with the Modem via the mains.
Once I removed all powerline adapters the FEC errors have recoverd to a healthy 24 - 500 per min with the odd spike to 18000, and the Modem has increased it's speed and Interleaving has gone down from 1600 to 450
thats my experience with homeplugs and have gone back to wireless unill I can route Lan cable to second PC.
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I use a pair of ancient Netgear HDX101 and they work fine for streaming video to my Raspberry Pi.
But they do run hot, so I unplug them when I remember to to save power.
On occasions have used one of them at the end of a curly extension lead, and it worked OK for
my needs of driver downloads whilst rebuilding a PC on the dining room table.
Cheers,
Peter
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In light of what folks here and elsewhere intimated about ADSL interference last night when I no longer needed WI-FI I turned off both adapters and left it like that until this morning. I took a close look at my error rates in DSLStats but could see no discernible difference in the FEC or CRC error rate between them being off and on.
So my conclusion - at least for me - there is no evidence of interference from using powerline adapters.
Stuart
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My puny set up is wifi except for a pair of powerline adapters connecting PC to my Foxsat+ PVR to get IPlayer and ITV Player. done like that as that was advice in Humax set up instructions.
Seems a silly question, but if the wall sockets are live, I am presuming that the adapters could have no adverse effect on performance unless they were carrying traffic from computer to PVR and thence to TV. Yes?
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There will be some traffic between the powerline adaptors at all times (control signals), but much more when they're carrying actual data.
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Powerline adaptors, like any electronic device have a potential for causing interference. When and how serious depends on the exact circumstances, and that is where their particular problem lies as the cable connection is totally unpredictable at RF, one stage worse than WiFi, where you can at least move the aerials about, stick ali foil behind wallpaper on the party wall etc.
Really it is a defect in house design that cable ducts are not built in, (plus garages wide enough for modern cars not just Austin 7 s !) so people look for a magic fix.
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I used to be a fan of powerline adaptors as they let me avoid wireless. In the past I had several issues with wireless in my property (distance between rooms, wall construction etc) which meant that reliable wireless connection (and speed) was problematic. The deployment of On Demand on the SKY box also meant that wireless was a no-no as I was one of the unlucky ones that could not get SKY to work wirelessly with a Home Hub 3.
However a BT engineer whilst trouble shooting problems on my VDSL service some time after I started using them was able (using his test kit) to conclusively demonstrate that the adaptors were causing a very significant number of line errors. They were not the primary cause of the connection problems, but the number of errors they generated were an important contributory factor to the overall problem.
So I reluctantly ditched the adaptors and went 100% wireless using repeaters to boost the signals round the house. The SKY wireless problem was also (eventually) solved by using a different Sky wireless connector (I had to try 3 before I could get one to work as intended).
So if powerlines work for you then great, but personally I would only invest in a couple to start with and see how they work in practice. There are a lot of variables involved with them so I don’t think it wise to generalise.
The adaptors I used were supplied by a network communications company based in North London called ADDON Technologies.
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Really it is a defect in house design that cable ducts are not built in, (plus garages wide enough for modern cars not just Austin 7 s !) so people look for a magic fix.
Not in many modern houses now, however this one was built in 1920, lucky to have power but when built it had an outside toilet :'( although that is long gone ;D
Stuart
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Worth chipping in that whilst powerline may conceivably generate interference, I would expect that interference to be well within the common mode rejection capabilities of a properly configured twisted-pair home phone wiring link.
If powerline causes a large rise in DSL errors, I'd suspect suboptimal home wiring to be a factor. Any imbalance in the 'pair', such as presence of a fault or even just 'bell wire' connection, would explain such vulnerability to interference.
That said I'll stand by my opposition to powerline, but that is because I think that wired LAN will perform better as LAN, rather than any conviction that powerline is detrimental to DSL.
But just my opinion, others will differ, and may be right. :)
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Just for anyone with a dead TP-Link (TL-PA211) adapter (no leds on) don't chuck it in the bin yet, as it's a simple fix if you know how to use a soldering Iron.
please read this link http://www.kphonline.co.uk/2012/12/repairing-a-dead-tp-link-pa211-powerline-ethernet-adapter-part1/ (http://www.kphonline.co.uk/2012/12/repairing-a-dead-tp-link-pa211-powerline-ethernet-adapter-part1/)
I will let you know how it goes as one of my TL-PA211 has died and have placed an order for that capacitor.
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Just Testing the Working TP-Link (TL-PA211) adapter to-night and can tell you once the adapter is connected to the mains the FEC errors Increase from 11 to 75000 in one minute using Ronski's GUI to see this, and once the adapter is removed the FEC's fall back to double figures.
So thats a clear Indication that Powerline Adapters is causing massive interference with the HG612, I'll fix the dead one and give them to someone who is not that concerned about there BroadBand speeds on FTTC :o
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I'm inclined to agree with Kitz comments that if you have problems with these adapters there could well be other issues affecting the performance. I use these now and have an average FEC rate of 50 per minute and about 70000 per day, and when I tested without the powerlines the error rate did not change. Admittedly I am on ADSL2+ and for my line it is probably running at the practical limit of speed around 8meg down.
Stuart
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I don't think it has been mentioned in this thread yet but isn't the source of interference from these powerline devices more likely to be the switch mode PSU injecting hash into the mains? In which case no amount of shielding or twisting of data cables is going to be effective. Just my three pen'orth. Tony
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Another thought that occurs (leading on from Tony's) would be the possibility of a ring main with a break in one of the conductors. That generally worsens any mains bourne interference, either from the PSUs or from the ethernet traffic, as the current paths within the cables are no longer balanced. ISTR in the days of old CRT tvs, such faults could generate a strong enough magnetic field to visibly disrupt the picture by pulling the scanning beam.
If that were the case it would want fixing urgently as it presents fire hazards from overloaded cables. But probably no need to panic unless there's any other reason to suspect a mains fault, it may also just be the case that the bandwidth of FTTC demands such higher frequencies as to be more vulnerable.
Lucky are the folks that can put it to the test with FTTC speeds, compared to us souls under life-sentence of basic ADSL max. :(
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I'm inclined to agree with Kitz comments that if you have problems with these adapters there could well be other issues affecting the performance.
I don't know what the other issues that may be effecting the HG612 when the poweline adapter is plugged into the mains ?, the test last night was the powerline adapter plugged into the mains in 5 different locations around the house and the ethernet cable was not even connected to the unit.
My house is a bungalow and all mains wireing was replaced in 1996 and the circuit breaker board was updated in 2001.
I have had very stable VDSL BroadBand sync in the last couple of months since the removal of poweline adapters, now don't get me wrong I think it works well as a substitute for direct Lan to Lan cable but I can put my hand on my heart and say they cause more hassle on my VDSL BroadBand parameters and also my MutliBand Radio scanner is also affected by the PowerLine Adapters and it uses battery's not the mains ;)
look at the two pics before and after the powerline adapters was connected ->
[attachment deleted by admin]
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Update received the 6.3V 1500uf capacitors 4 of them for £2.19 only need 1 for (TP-LINK) TL-PA211 circuit board thats good incase the working one decides to die.
all went well as per http://www.kphonline.co.uk/2012/12/repairing-a-dead-tp-link-pa211-powerline-ethernet-adapter-part1/ but was finding the solder on the negative wire on capacitor was not taking hold to circuit board after 2-3 attempts had to scratch around the hole for the solder to take hold.
It's now working again ;D
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@NewtronStar
I would be interested to hear if the interference on your multiband scanner and the stats from your router have improved since replacing the electrolytic cap's in the power line adapters.
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@NewtronStar
I would be interested to hear if the interference on your multiband scanner and the stats from your router have improved since replacing the electrolytic cap's in the power line adapters.
Unfortunately replacing the capacitor has not improved those errors, once the adapter is plugged in to mains the fec's start rising and errored seconds and CRC's HEC's also start showing up.
I am not going to be using these powerline adapters i'll be sticking to wi-fi or if I can get my hands on a different brand of PowerLine Adapters and do some testing :-\
EDIT is the interference coming from powerline Adapters then going down the mains and then the PSU unit of HG612 is picking this up as Interference or is The Adapters causeing a broadcast from house to say 5 to 50 meters away to DP then back into house via drop wire which the HG612 see's as interference :-\