Kitz Forum
Broadband Related => Broadband Hardware => Topic started by: kitz on August 19, 2013, 01:29:47 PM
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Supports both ADSL/ADSL2+ and VDSL2 lines such as BT Infinity 1 & 2
(https://forum.kitz.co.uk/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.broadbandbuyer.co.uk%2Fimages%2Fproducts%2FThomson%255CTG589VN.png&hash=906ebad66b17856c3a53da904c8aa5beba52c4aa)
No separate modem required! VDSL2 compliance Up to 17 MHz profiles (POTS/ISDN) £57.78 from Broadband Buyer (http://www.broadbandbuyer.co.uk/Shop/ShopDetail.asp?ProductID=16234#Content)
Full specs:- linky (http://www.broadbandbuyer.co.uk/Shop/Specifications.asp?ProductID=16234#Content).
Disappointingly let down by 4x 10/100 LAN ports.
I find it ironic that theoretical speeds on WiFi could be faster than ethernet. ???
Plus point is that at long last we are seeing a more affordable combined FTTC unit in the market place.
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Hopefully, as it's Technicolor, it will be a Broadcom chipset too?
Otherwise, not dissimilar in spec to the HG622?
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Hopefully, as the v2 was a BCM6368.
o0ooooooooooo Just done a search and cant find anything specific on the chipset model for the v3, BUT I did find this (http://community.plus.net/forum/index.php?topic=117383.0)
Looks like Plusnet may be trialling/about to trial them? !!!! ?
Chipset Vendor ID (Local/Remote): BDCM / IFTN
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One of the BroadbandBuyer reviewers said that it has the same telnet menu as other Technicolor routers. If this is the case then DSLstats ought to work with it. If someone buys me one I'll check it out. :)
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So, the same as both the HG612 & the HG622. Eric & Paul will be glad to hear that. :( I bet Eric will add it to his list of routers by the end of the day!
Performance will come down to the firmware then. e.g. I find that a straight swap-out of the HG612 for the HG622 on my line (i.e. in bridged mode as simply a modem; no WiFi, routing, PPP or anything else), results in a 25% increase in interleaving depth with a corresponding 5Mb/s reduction in attainable rates.
Not a problem ATM, but could be decisive if my attainable started to decline closer to the product max.
Off to read more detail around the threads you posted (thank you), but at first reading, some of these were provided by a member of PN staff with spares, and it seems it is probably running the 10.n firmware. (You can get the 10.2.5.2 firmware for your current TG582N from PN now, and get some of the functional benefits). :)
PS: Beat me to it Eric!
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Seems to be an old photo on BroadbandBuyer, as it doesn't have the additional RED WAN port next to the DSL one, and ...
(Especially for Kitz) from the manual - "Ethernet port 4 is a Gigabit Ethernet port and has a maximum speed of 1 Gbps (Gigabit per second). The other Ethernet ports have a maximum speed of 100Mbps (Megabit per second)."
[CORRECTION] Although this was the manual provided via the link from PN, on closer inspection (should've gone to specsavers!) it says TG587Nv3 :( Interestingly enough I have the v2 lying about somewhere....
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I've just had a thought:
Why don't we crowd-source the purchase of two of these to allow the two authors of our stats programs, Bald_Eagle_1 and Roseway, to test them out for the Forum. I for one think they've more than deserved it, and offer the first £5 for each of them. All we need is another ~11 of us to offer likewise.
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That's a very generous suggestion Colin. I'll happily test one, but I couldn't accept it as a gift. I'll put £10 in the community pot, and I suggest that one should go to Kitz after testing.
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Well, whatever way works for everybody. My offer still stands. Perhaps Kitz could co-ordinate the monies & the purchase via the Community pot?
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You've got £5 from me - how to I put it into the pot?
Barrie
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Thanks, Barrie.
Before we take this any further though, as this is a Technicolor router it probably doesn't have a 'conventional' Broadcom telnet interface. If I'm right I think that would mean that HG612 Modem Stats won't work with it (unless BE1 says otherwise). DSLstats should work in its Thomson mode i.e. all the main features work, but not some of the more advanced features.
So I don't think there's a purpose in buying two, but one could still find a good home.
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So I don't think there's a purpose in buying two, but one could still find a good home.
Well, let's see what BE has to say, but there would be merit in checking out both ADSL&VDSL, as well as long lines etc.
And I'm sure Asbo could probably do interesting things with one of them if it was passed on.
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>>> as this is a Technicolor router it probably doesn't have a 'conventional' Broadcom telnet interface.
That is my fear too. Its going to be hard getting BE's scripts working on them. However at this moment in time, I cant see any reason why with a bit of tweaking that DSLstats shouldnt be able to provide decent graphing tools for VDSL.
As such I'm willing to chip £5 into the pot for one for Eric to work with. However.. with both me and Bald Eagle being PN customers... lets see if we can get our names added to the list.
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Edited to add
Ive taken the liberty of adding Paul & I to the list (http://community.plus.net/forum/index.php/topic,108698.new.html#new).... I'll also do the PM in a mo.
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I've been contacted by a user of DSLstats in Italy to tell me that his ISP (Fastweb) is issuing this modem/router for their new VDSL2 service. I see that it's available in the UK from Broadbandbuyer: http://www.broadbandbuyer.co.uk/Shop/ShopDetail.asp?ProductID=16234 (http://www.broadbandbuyer.co.uk/Shop/ShopDetail.asp?ProductID=16234) . It appears to be Broadcom based, because its telnet interface is exactly the same as TG582n. In the same way, it probably doesn't provide access to the Broadcom CLI, unfortunately.
I'd like to support it in DSLstats, but without access to the Broadcom CLI, that support is going to be limited. I'd be interested to know if anyone here has tried this model.
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Eric,
Is this not the same one Kitz flagged up as being on trial on PN? Here http://forum.kitz.co.uk/index.php/topic,12827.msg242500.html#msg242500 (http://forum.kitz.co.uk/index.php/topic,12827.msg242500.html#msg242500)
If so, I think she added her name to a very long list of people interested in trying it out.
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You're absolutely right Colin. :-[
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Im going to merge these threads. ^
Ive not heard anything back from PN about getting one as a test, it all seems to have gone rather quiet as I think they may have given out the few they did have. :/
I am still prepared to start a community pot to purchase one for eric, and if Ive counted right, the proposed pot stands at £25 against £61.37 inc p+p
Alternatively, I could perhaps try something that I dont normally do and approach the company and ask if they are prepared to give one away in return for a review. Theres a distinct shortage of affordable vdsl2 routers and it could well be advantageous for broadbandbuyer if their link was added as the supplier. If eric got DSLstats working with it, then Im sure that a lot more VDSL users would look towards a combined router of this sort rather than having to hack modems bought on ebay.
I'd need a vdsl2 volunteer though who would be prepared to take the router and write a review, which I would then host on the main site. This isnt something I myself have time for atm hence why Im passing to a potential volunteer... and theres no guarantee that broadband buyer would give us one anyhow. Thoughts?
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Kitz,
I'd happily buy one to test, but I am only on ADSL2+ and not VDSL. I expect my services could still be useful in regards to other features, like WiFi, etc. Let me know.
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I decided to give in to temptation, and I've bought one. It turned up this morning, and it's now running. DSLstats works with it, using the setup for one of the other Thomson models.
First reactions are good; it's connected at a somewhat higher speed than I got with either the HG612 or the HG622, and there are no obvious problems with the connection. It has the usual awful web interface, and I still haven't found out how to configure the LAN, but I'm sure it's there somewhere.
I'm going to have a poke around in the CLI, to see if I can locate any way to get pbParams data (so I can support it on VDSL2).
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First reactions are good; it's connected at a somewhat higher speed than I got with either the HG612 or the HG622, and there are no obvious problems with the connection. It has the usual awful web interface, and I still haven't found out how to configure the LAN, but I'm sure it's there somewhere.
Interesting.. and good news... hopefully you will find the relevant config pages. Please let us know how you get on.
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Yes, I'll certainly do that. I still haven't worked out how to configure the LAN, but anyway, all the devices on my LAN are working normally.
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How strange
does http://192.168.1.254/cgi/b/lan/?be=0&l0=4&l1=-1 work?
or
http://192.168.1.254/cgi/b/intfs/_intf_/ov/?be=0&l0=4&l1=1&name=LocalNetwork
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Yes, both those pages display data, but neither of them has a 'configure' option. But I did find it eventually at Home network --> Interfaces --> Local network.
I realise that this is mainly just unfamiliarity on my part, but I still think that it's an awful and sometimes counter-intuitive interface.
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but neither of them has a 'configure' option
OK, this is maybe where like you say its counter intuitive, in that hyperlinks arent always immediately visible.
It sometimes looks like the 'configure' option at the top right is greyed out, but it will still let you click on it. I agree, its very easy to miss unless you know its there.
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Half the battle is familiarity with the GUI. For example if you want to configure the WLAN, its not immediately apparent.. but the way I do it is
Home network -> Click on the WLAN hyperlink immediately under where it says "Wireless".
The next page shows information about the WLAN and it looks like youve come to a dead end.. but look closely at the top right and "configure" is greyed out.. but click on it anyhow.. and up comes all the config options.
Similar with the LAN
Home network -> Interfaces
From this page, just under 'Interfaces' click on LocalNetwork
This opens the local network information... if you want to configure your lan... click the greyed out 'configure' link at the top right.
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The above information is supplied using the TG582n and Im hoping that the TG589n is similar. If not let me know and I'll see if I can get some direct links for you to try.
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Yes, thanks, that does work. The links you gave me didn't offer the 'configure' link (see snapshot below) and I had to take the extra step of clicking on 'LocalNetwork' at the top.
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What firmware version does it use Eric?
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This is what the Information page gives, Colin:
Software Release: 10.4.B.B
Software Variant: AQ
Boot Loader Version: 2.0.8
And the CLI says this:
Flash image: 10.4.11.11.0
Active SW: ZUNUAQ10.4BB (10.4.B.B)
Passive SW: ------------ (--------)
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Thanks Eric.
I thought I recognised some similarities with this slightly earlier v10 release:
Software Release: 10.2.5.2
Software Variant: EO
Boot Loader Version: 1.0.5
Board Name: DANT-T
Flash image : 10.2.5.2.0
Build name : ZX2UEO10.252
They're board-specific images, but if there is any menu navigation you need checked ... just give me a shout by PM.
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Notes on 4 days' use of the TG589vn v3
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Tested on a TalkTalk ADSL2+ connection, medium line length, rather poor quality.
The DSL processing chip is a BCM6368.
1. General performance is excellent. Connection speed is ~300 kbps higher than other comparable modem/routers I've used recently. No issues with stability so far.
2. WiFi performance appears to be at least as good as the separate WAP I normally use, and video streaming is perfectly smooth.
3. LAN performance is as good as you would expect with 10/100 ethernet ports. Gigabit ports would be an improvement, but I don't transfer enough data around my LAN for this to be of any significance to me.
4. In my opinion the GUI interface is awful, and counter-intuitive in places. When I'm installing a new router I like to set everything up offline before connecting it to the telephone line, and Thomson routers make it quite difficult to do that. But in the end you can do most of the things you want to do in the GUI; it can just take a bit of time to work out how to do them.
5. There is a normal telnet interface giving access to the custom Thomson CLI. This has much the same features as other models in the range. There's an unofficial guide to the CLI here: http://www.elektroda.pl/rtvforum/download.php?id=514441%E2%80%8E
6. There is an FTP interface which you can log into in the same way as telnet. This gives access to some commands which could be interesting for customisation:
eric@chaffinch:~$ ftp 192.168.1.254
Connected to 192.168.1.254.
220 Inactivity timer = 120 seconds. Use 'site idle <secs>' to change.
Name (192.168.1.254:eric): Administrator
331 Password required.
Password:
230 OK
Remote system type is UNIX.
Using binary mode to transfer files.
ftp> help
Commands may be abbreviated. Commands are:
! dir mdelete qc site
$ disconnect mdir sendport size
account exit mget put status
append form mkdir pwd struct
ascii get mls quit system
bell glob mode quote sunique
binary hash modtime recv tenex
bye help mput reget tick
case idle newer rstatus trace
cd image nmap rhelp type
cdup ipany nlist rename user
chmod ipv4 ntrans reset umask
close ipv6 open restart verbose
cr lcd prompt rmdir ?
delete ls passive runique
debug macdef proxy send
ftp> ls
200 Connected to 192.168.1.30 port 53673
150 Opening data connection for /bin/ls
drwxr-xr-x 2 0 0 0 Jan 1 2000 tls
drwxr-xr-x 3 0 0 0 Jan 1 2000 osgi
-rw-r--r-- 1 0 0 0 Jan 1 2000 osgi.def
-rw-r--r-- 1 0 0 200 Sep 13 15:56 phy.conf
-r--r--r-- 1 0 0 9 Jan 1 2000 seed.dat
-rwxr-xr-x 1 0 0 106632 Sep 13 15:56 user.ini
-rwxr-xr-x 1 0 0 26 Sep 11 09:22 persistent.cnf
226 Options: -l : 7 matches total
ftp>
6. DSLstats works with this model in the same way as other Thomson models, except that it reports traffic volumes slightly differently. Other models report bytes; this model reports KB or MB. The next release of DSLstats will have a mod to accommodate this.
7. I've been unable to find a means of getting pbParams data or any other way of automatically determining the band plan in use on VDSL2, but I guess there may be commands which are hidden unless you're actually on a VDSL2 connection. In the meantime I'll be looking at manual means of dealing with this in DSLstats.
8. There's no apparent way to tweak the target SNRM if that's what you want to do.
Overall, I would say that this appears to be a top class modem/router for ADSL2+. There are some limitations in the data which you can obtain for monitoring purposes. I have no information on VDSL2 performance.
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By the way, when you exit from the FTP interface, this is what happens:
ftp> bye
421 Timeout - try typing a little faster next time.
eric@chaffinch:~$
;D
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By the way, when you exit from the FTP interface, this is what happens:
ftp> bye
421 Timeout - try typing a little faster next time.
eric@chaffinch:~$
I suspect that you had exceeded the default 120 sec 'timeout' limit, perhaps? :-\
220 Inactivity timer = 120 seconds. Use 'site idle <secs>' to change.
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Yes, you could be right. Usually, timeouts like this log you out when the time is reached, but this one doesn't do that.
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A few additional comments:
1. The router continues to perform well after running for a week - no performance issues of any kind have arisen.
2. There are a few oddities in the CLI data reporting, which don't affect performance:
- The bitloading data sometimes stops at tone 255. Tones up to this level continue to update normally, but beyond it nothing is reported. After a while it reverts to reporting the full tone range. (At first I thought this might be a bug in DSLstats, but a manual telnet login displays the same behaviour).
- The router doesn't report upstream ES or HEC values (but does report upstream CRCs).
- The router reports the upstream interleave depth as 0, which isn't a proper value. The connection is interleaved both ways, because it reports FECs both up and down.
None of this changes my earlier conclusion, that this is an excellent all-in-one modem/router for ADSL.
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Generally good news for performance then. :thumbs:
Thanks for letting us know.. I take it you will be leaving it connected ;)
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I'll be holding onto it for a bit longer to make sure that DSLstats is getting as much out of it as it can. I'm sure there are more bits of data to obtain.
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I'll probably get one ordered tonight or tomorrow. I haven't played with a new router in a while (still running the HH3 on Plusnet).
By the way, sorry I haven't been around recently, I've just started college (I'm doing my AS levels now) and well, busy, busy, busy!
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Hi,
Could I please ask if the router suffers from the UPnP flaw that some Thomson routers have suffered with?
(It can checked via ShieldsUp (https://www.grc.com/x/ne.dll?bh0bkyd2) on GRC.com)
Many thanks.
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I'm not sure what UPnP flaw you're referring to, but anyway, I have UPnP disabled and Shields Up shows it as fully stealthed on all service ports.
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Thanks for that - this sounds like it will be my next router. ;)
The UPnP flaw was the one reported at the beginning of the year when a scan of the Internet found that millions of routers were at risk of exploit - some even if UPnP was switched off.
I can't remember the full list of manufacturers, but Linksys and Thompson were on there.
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Right, I've ordered one. It'll be here on Tuesday hopefully (I chose next day shipping).
The only thing that I know is going to be a disappointment is the lack of Gigabit ethernet ports - oh well.
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Let us know how you get on :)
The gigabit ethernet (or rather lack of) seemed to me to be about the only minus point.
The fact that wireless technology on the latest routers is running faster than 10/100 seems a bit silly, and also puts paid to the argument of processing power for the router.
I cant quite get my head around the fact that the wireless is capable of running faster than the LAN. I mean srsly whats the point of headling 300Mbps for wifi when the LAN ports are only 10/100
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I mean srsly whats the point of headling 300Mbps for wifi when the LAN ports are only 10/100
This seems to be something Thomson/Technicolor do. I don't actually know a consumer router by Technicolor that has Gigabit ethernet ports.
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It seems to be quite common and not restricted to Thomson. This particular topic has been a bugbear of mine for years and its been mentioned on this forum numerous times.
It only takes them pennies to put in a Gb switch rather than 10/100 so it cant be cost.
Previously it was always put down to processing power.. but if the router is dealing with >10/100 on wireless then that excuse wont wash anymore.
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Hello,
this is my first post to this very interesting forum :)
I am a FastWeb customer in Italy and, as you probably know, this is the modem sent by them for the new VDSL2 service,with firmware version 10.4.B.B
I have been using it since a couple of months (still in ADSL+ mode), and so far it is very stable and the performance look ok.
WIFI is probably a little weak, and I remember I had to reset the router once because the wifi was not working anymore (even if ethernet was still working).
I would like to report here a very peculiar problem I have, which is (apparently) related to the QoS IP management, at least with the current firmware.
I am a linux/ubuntu user, and since the beginning I have been unable to download files from remote servers with the standard scp/sftp commands: the transfer goes to "stalled", after few seconds. Uploads instead work correctly.
The problem is client dependent, for example downloads work with windows, android, and also with winscp under wine.
After various tries, I found that scp/sftp downloads are "unblocked" if I use the ssh option IPQoS=cs0 . For example:
scp -oIPQoS=cs0 host:file1 ~/file1 -> works perfectly
scp host:file1 ~/file1 -> transfer gets stalled
Something is wrong in the IPQOS configuration of this router, and probably here somebody can confirm the issue.
I think that using the Thomsom CLI interface the problem could be solved, but I am not very expert with it
Thanks!
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My TG589 has arrived successfully and I have set it up.
Some initial impressions: it is quite a large router. It's probably twice the size (height wise) of a BT Home Hub 3 and a bit wider. It's black, which looks quite nice.
The LED indicators are very easy to see; they glow green like most Technicolor routers. Something interesting I noticed is that there is a TV LED and I have no idea what this is for. It's of no use to me at all and therefore isn't active (does anybody know what it would be used for?).
The web interface is nearly identical to that of the TG582N on the latest Plusnet FTTC beta firmware (I used it on an ADSL connection and it worked). I do like how one is prompted to change the password on connecting for the first time.
Setup was quick and I was connected in under 5 minutes, easy.
I'll post some pictures in a short while.
Edit: I have just tried out the WiFi and it's pretty average. Upstairs, about 40 feet from the router, I get 1 bar (out of 3) on my iPhone and about 20 feet away, I get two. Any further than 40 feet and I suspect I won't get any signal at all (although I will test this further). It's not really an issue for us as we have several WiFi routers (now dumb switches with WiFi - WAPs) providing WiFi for the whole house.
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Hi pippo and welcome.
Unfortunately I dont know the answer to your question. Asbokid may well have been able to help, but he's away atm and we're not sure when he will be back.
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Thank you for that info Alec. Im interested in the wifi aspect and observations. :)
For some reason I seem to have a 'dead spot' in my lounge. Since this deadspot is also the location of the TV, it proved troublesome for the media-system which wouldnt work well with wifi until I got the TG582n. I dont have the Media System any more, but I do have a smart TV currently connected to a PN TG582n which is used for streaming.
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Hi pippo and welcome.
Unfortunately I dont know the answer to your question. Asbokid may well have been able to help, but he's away atm and we're not sure when he will be back.
Hello Kitz!
At the moment I am fine using the IPQoS=sc0 option in linux even it is just a workaround.
I have done some further investigations...
I tried to change some QoS setting in the router with the CLI interface, but so far I didn't succeed to solve the problem.
I am starting to think that the problem is caused by some bug in the firmware, which somehow does not recognize the QoS for DSCP IP packets, and it cannot be simply solved by tuning the configuration.
Indeed the linux scp/ssh commands use by default the DSCP classes "lowdelay" and “throughput”: it looks like the router is giving a very low priority to those DSCP classes, causing transfer timeouts.
Can somebody expert of windows tell me how the IP packets are classified in terms of QoS by programs like winscp ?
Thanks again for any help!
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Right, I've discovered that this router (similarly to the TG582N) doesn't handle fluctuating SNRM well. When the SNRM dropped from 6 to 3dB, the connection was so slow web pages wouldn't load. I restarted the router and this rectified the problem, but resulted in a much lower speed.
It's worth mentioning that a BT Home Hub 3 handled fluctuating SNRM much better and the internet remained working even whenever the SNRM dropped to 1dB.
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Indeed the linux scp/ssh commands use by default the DSCP classes "lowdelay" and “throughput”: it looks like the router is giving a very low priority to those DSCP classes, causing transfer timeouts.
Can somebody expert of windows tell me how the IP packets are classified in terms of QoS by programs like winscp ?
Those that have this router so far either seem to be Linux or Mac users.
I could attempt to capture some packets for you from a Windows machine, but I dont use WinSCP due to not having anywhere that I need to use scp/ssh.
I use Filezilla for FTP, but no doubt this would have a different ToS and not much use to you.
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Hi.
Is anyone using one of these as a FTTC modem/router?
I'd just like to confirm that QOS is configured to work in this configuration, maybe by running the cli command "ipqos queue stats" and seeing if there are any packet counts against the rules.
I've been playing around with a TG582N with plusnet FTTC firmware which doesn't seem to have QOS enabled when connecting through PPPoE on the WAN port.
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Just an update: my TG589 will shortly be leaving me. I am not happy with its performance (both ADSL and WiFi are poor) and I have gone back to the HH3.
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I picked up cheap an ex ZEN one of these on ebay. I notice that it has an xdsl maxspeed rx=... tx=... command but it seems to have no effect at all on vdsl. A google finds the same issue with adsl lines but command not working on adsl would seem consistent with the equivalent command on other broadcom modem also not working on adsl but just vdsl. I tried giving rx and tx as rate in bytes, kilo bytes, and megabytes in case it was just a format issue but the command is just accepted with no action or complaint when I use it. Maybe some subtle extra prod is needed?
Has anyone got this command to work on FTTC and if not please might someone using one try the command?
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How's the performance, les-70?
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It is not in use at the moment but the modem performance was similar to a HG612 when it was tried. The wireless was OK but not brilliant, and for me the main annoyance is the odd GUI and lack of full stats over telnet. I would like to cap the sync speed to test it with exactly the same sync as I normally cap to.