Kitz Forum

Broadband Related => FTTC and FTTP Issues => Topic started by: .Griff. on June 04, 2013, 05:34:43 PM

Title: New toy arrived!
Post by: .Griff. on June 04, 2013, 05:34:43 PM
I haven't posted for a while but a new toy arrived earlier today which some may, or probably may not, find interesting.

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v427/griff_90/IMAG1513_zpsf8e5936f.jpg)

I haven't had a chance to play with it yet but when I do I'm happy to share an findings on my own FTTC/VDSL2 line if people find it remotely interesting.
Title: Re: New toy arrived!
Post by: asbokid on June 04, 2013, 05:39:13 PM
Hi Griff,  I'm certainly in the 'very interested' camp!

cheers, a

Title: Re: New toy arrived!
Post by: Bald_Eagle1 on June 04, 2013, 05:47:11 PM

Hi Griff,  I'm certainly in the 'very interested' camp!



Me too.

Given time to play with it 'sufficiently', it will be interesting to see exactly what information it can provide & also to see how any empirical data compares with that obtained via an unlocked HG612 modem.

Are we to assume it has the very same module/modules as provided for use by BT Openreach engineers?

Title: Re: New toy arrived!
Post by: burakkucat on June 04, 2013, 05:58:38 PM
Meow! (Bellowed).

I hope that box contains an HST-3000c, SIM(s), etc and isn't just an empty cardboard carton.  ::)
Title: Re: New toy arrived!
Post by: .Griff. on June 04, 2013, 06:47:38 PM
Are we to assume it has the very same module/modules as provided for use by BT Openreach engineers?

I should hope so otherwise I won't be able to do my job very well  ;)
Title: Re: New toy arrived!
Post by: .Griff. on June 04, 2013, 06:54:38 PM
I hope that box contains an HST-3000c, SIM(s), etc and isn't just an empty cardboard carton.  ::)

Just for you BC..

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v427/griff_90/IMAG1517_zps308739d1.jpg)

Waiting for the course before I start tearing open bags of cables/dongles etc but I've had a quick look through the various menus and options.
Title: Re: New toy arrived!
Post by: burakkucat on June 04, 2013, 08:03:12 PM
Very nice.  ;D

Now when you start 'looking into it' more deeply, I'll be interested to know the version of the SIM that you have fitted. I am aware that there are a number available for ADSL/VDSL testing, each with different chipsets. IIRC, Infineon and Broadcom are two of them . . .
Title: Re: New toy arrived!
Post by: .Griff. on June 04, 2013, 08:22:50 PM
SIM - "HST3000-BDCM-WB2 ADSL/VDSL Bonded and Copper (up to 30 MHz) with Broadcom Chipset"

Seems to consist of: Copper, xDSL, VDSL bonded, ADSL bonded and Ethernet TE.

Hope that helps.
Title: Re: New toy arrived!
Post by: burakkucat on June 04, 2013, 08:41:43 PM
Ah, thank you. That is the sort of precision I appreciate.  ;)

Searching through my library I found a JDSU document, dated May 2011, from which the following specification snippet has been extracted.
Title: Re: New toy arrived!
Post by: .Griff. on June 04, 2013, 09:43:25 PM
I'm sure the user manual, and other details are easily obtainable, so if you or any others on here want to read them and want specific tests carried out, and results documented, I'm happy to use my line as a test platform so to speak.

On a personal note I had/have an issue with my flashed HG612 showing a horrendous amount of CRC errors (documented ages ago on here) so I'll be seeing if the HST3000 mirrors those results.

Title: Re: New toy arrived!
Post by: ryant704 on June 04, 2013, 10:06:37 PM
Off-topic: You have awesome carpet (same as mine) :D

On-Topic: My line shows a high amount of CRC when on fast path when using a HG612, we are looking at 20/30 per second over 45 minutes. Though when the engineer tested with his JDSU the CRC were far less than 1 per second over an hour time frame. So you may have the same experience I've had.
Title: Re: New toy arrived!
Post by: .Griff. on June 06, 2013, 08:31:49 PM
(http://i.imgur.com/FHpR3Fb.jpg)

(http://i.imgur.com/pEXL8Ke.jpg?1)

(http://i.imgur.com/NSe9La6.jpg)

(http://i.imgur.com/UyRV006.jpg)

(http://i.imgur.com/X4tsRg7.jpg)

(http://i.imgur.com/PjpZ047.jpg)

(http://i.imgur.com/nxmeWrM.jpg)

I appreciate they're not the best images ever but they'll have to do for now. Those are the seven screens/options available under the "VDSL Modem Emulation" test. I'm going to leave the JDSU in the case now until my course and then I'll post more images.
Title: Re: New toy arrived!
Post by: Bald_Eagle1 on June 06, 2013, 10:21:17 PM

I appreciate they're not the best images ever but they'll have to do for now. Those are the seven screens/options available under the "VDSL Modem Emulation" test. I'm going to leave the JDSU in the case now until my course and then I'll post more images.

Now that is interesting.

It seems that the data for the usual screen that some of us have seen:-
(http://i.imgur.com/pEXL8Ke.jpg?1)

actually comes from the U1 & D1 bands (more or less & allowing for a slight SNRM variance).

Did you get chance to grab your stats from the HG612 for comparison between the two pieces of kit?


Title: Re: New toy arrived!
Post by: burakkucat on June 07, 2013, 12:30:58 AM
What 'caught my eye' is that the attenuation is also quoted at 1 MHz, 7.7 dB for Griff's line.
Title: Re: New toy arrived!
Post by: .Griff. on June 27, 2013, 06:14:45 PM
Spent the last two days on my HHT course. Unfortunately (for the sake of this forum) it was all PSTN based.

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v427/griff_90/7224cab1-3a60-42ee-9e8a-7ddbde495742_zpsb4bc1cf5.jpg)

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v427/griff_90/4fe84927-1b98-455e-89f3-663824fea565_zpsac300e91.jpg)

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v427/griff_90/e03acece-c952-4a1e-a3a8-7da36c53021f_zpsa56f92aa.jpg)

MDF's today and tomorrow.
Title: Re: New toy arrived!
Post by: burakkucat on June 27, 2013, 06:21:42 PM
Thank you for the interesting pictures. Some more tomorrow, I hope . . .  :)
Title: Re: New toy arrived!
Post by: .Griff. on June 28, 2013, 05:15:05 PM
Just figured out how to take screenshots with the JDSU. Unfortunately it's limited to graphs only.

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v427/griff_90/1_zps10430de2.png)

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v427/griff_90/2_zps22ba83e4.png)

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v427/griff_90/3_zps100b0b3b.png)

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v427/griff_90/4_zps1c0d7844.png)

As for other interesting pictures I've got loads on my phone but there's a fine line between what I can put into the public domain and what can't.
Title: Re: New toy arrived!
Post by: Bald_Eagle1 on June 28, 2013, 05:35:09 PM
Was that lot from a live VDSL2 connection or a piece of test equipment?
Title: Re: New toy arrived!
Post by: .Griff. on June 28, 2013, 07:14:03 PM
Was that lot from a live VDSL2 connection or a piece of test equipment?

My VDSL2 connection.
Title: Re: New toy arrived!
Post by: Black Sheep on June 28, 2013, 08:10:01 PM
What part of the country have you been training at, Griff ?? I take it you're ex-MOD ??  :)
Title: Re: New toy arrived!
Post by: .Griff. on June 28, 2013, 08:17:02 PM
What part of the country have you been training at, Griff ?? I take it you're ex-MOD ??  :)

Yarnfield.

I'm from an IT background not the AF but out of my "group" of seven there's three ex-MOD guys and from memory at our induction I'd guess about 50% were ex-MOD. I was expecting that figure to be higher to be honest.
Title: Re: New toy arrived!
Post by: Black Sheep on June 28, 2013, 08:26:32 PM
Done a good few stints at Yarnfield/Stone over the years. Food and accommodation has improved 1000%, the bar area is still like an airport transit lounge though. Used to go down to the Wayfarer, or just outside the gates to the 'Labour in Vain' pub.

You appear to have a good grasp of the JDSU already ??!!. Nice one.  :)
Title: Re: New toy arrived!
Post by: .Griff. on June 28, 2013, 08:51:02 PM
Done a good few stints at Yarnfield/Stone over the years. Food and accommodation has improved 1000%, the bar area is still like an airport transit lounge though. Used to go down to the Wayfarer, or just outside the gates to the 'Labour in Vain' pub.

You appear to have a good grasp of the JDSU already ??!!. Nice one.  :)

The Labour in Vain is closed now otherwise I'm sure it would have seen a few visits during the five weeks. I'd heard horror stories about the food but it wasn't that bad at all.

On the other hand the main training building resembles something from Pripyat! Most of it is condemned now and only a tiny part is still up and running. Apparently it was sold to Barratts a few years ago and by 2015 it will all be houses.

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v427/griff_90/IMAG1503_zps02f68ccb.jpg)

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v427/griff_90/IMAG1499_zps91e111c6.jpg)

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v427/griff_90/IMAG1497_zpscb4e9e97.jpg)

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v427/griff_90/IMAG1495_zps8ad65ab2.jpg)

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v427/griff_90/IMAG1487_zps972612a3.jpg)
Title: Re: New toy arrived!
Post by: Black Sheep on June 28, 2013, 09:04:05 PM
That's a shame about the Labour in Vain. I was down there about 2yrs ago on a 'Hot-site' refresher course, and it was opne for business then. It seems wherever one goes, the pub industry is on its ar5e ??

I'd heard the site (or most of it) had been bought by a developer, didn't know it was Barratts though. The old accommodation blocks were like prison cells, and the food was rank. I attended a few 3-week courses 20-odd yrs ago (Lift (Elevator) maintenance, and Generator Sets and associated control cubicles), when I was on the 'Electric Lighting and Power staff (ELP). You were ready for home after those 3 long weeks, believe me !!!!  :'( :'(
Had a few good curries in Stone itself, as there used to be a free bus that would take you in every hour, and the same hourly schedule returning back to camp.

Memories.  ::) :)

Title: Re: New toy arrived!
Post by: Black Sheep on June 28, 2013, 09:07:13 PM
Just seen your photo's that you added. How damned unkempt does it look ?? BT of old would be turning in its grave at the sight of this. Same in the Exchanges as well, you could literally eat your lunch of the floor, as the whole place was polished to within an inch of its life.
They're akin to an overflowing dump these days.
Title: Re: New toy arrived!
Post by: .Griff. on June 28, 2013, 09:22:05 PM
(http://stonegazette.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/Yarnfield-indicative-view.gif)

The old accommodation block is still there and from what I've heard, which could be complete rubbish, it's used by the emergency services for training on occasions.

We ventured up that end for our "SLaG" course and it looked like a warzone.

As you can see from the image above they're literally going to build houses right on top of where the main training building(s) are and back up right onto the TAG training building that was built in the eighties.
Title: Re: New toy arrived!
Post by: Black Sheep on June 28, 2013, 09:30:24 PM
OMG !! Signing, Lighting and Guarding !! The most boring, time intensive, laborious course, man ever invented. Did mine with 'Henry Boot' locally at Wigan.

It has to be said, Barratts have pulled off a major coup getting their hands on that land.
Title: Re: New toy arrived!
Post by: .Griff. on June 28, 2013, 09:54:58 PM
OMG !! Signing, Lighting and Guarding !! The most boring, time intensive, laborious course, man ever invented.

Never a truer word spoken! It didn't help that my assessment was on Friday afternoon. The lights failed and by the time they were fixed it was rush hour at Yarnfield with vans left, right and centre trying to get out of the place. I don't think they appreciated little old me delaying their mass exodus  :D
Title: Re: New toy arrived!
Post by: .Griff. on June 28, 2013, 10:37:48 PM
Apologies to everyone else for going off topic. It's just nice to chat to someone else who's shared the same experience.
Title: Re: New toy arrived!
Post by: bossian on June 28, 2013, 10:40:20 PM
OMG Yarnfield....worked there years ago for the prison service....they used to have a vocational training centre on an old part of the site....back in the late 80's early 90's

Back in the day the site was used for testing chemical weapons.... :'(
Title: Re: New toy arrived!
Post by: .Griff. on June 28, 2013, 10:53:31 PM
OMG Yarnfield....worked there years ago for the prison service....they used to have a vocational training centre on an old part of the site....back in the late 80's early 90's

Back in the day the site was used for testing chemical weapons.... :'(

Would that be ROF Swynnerton you're referring to? It's about a mile from Yarnfield Park.
Title: Re: New toy arrived!
Post by: bossian on June 28, 2013, 11:10:44 PM
OMG Yarnfield....worked there years ago for the prison service....they used to have a vocational training centre on an old part of the site....back in the late 80's early 90's

Back in the day the site was used for testing chemical weapons.... :'(

Would that be ROF Swynnerton you're referring to? It's about a mile from Yarnfield Park.

Hahah yeah about a mile due south....access was from the old Cold Meece? road
Title: Re: New toy arrived!
Post by: NewtronStar on June 29, 2013, 12:20:11 AM
two available on Ebay £799 each  :D surely the HG612 WinGraphs can do the same job ???

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/JDSU-HST-3000-COPPER-VDSL-ADSL-ETHERNET-TESTER-ACTERNA-/380658266267?pt=UK_Computing_Laptop_Accessories_LaptopCables_Connectors&hash=item58a100309b
Title: Re: New toy arrived!
Post by: burakkucat on June 29, 2013, 01:12:13 AM
The reminiscences, above, promoted me to check a collection of the POEEJ that is in my possession.

Volume 63, Part 2, dated July 1970, has an article titled The Post Office Technical Training College, by N. Fox, C.ENG., M.I.E.E. The synopsis reads as follows:

Quote
The primary function of the Post Office Technical Training College at Stone, Staffordshire, is to provide vocational training for up to 750 engineering students, who are drawn mainly from the Technician and Technical Officer grades. This article gives a brief survey of the object, training organization, accommodation, teaching techniques, training methods and working policy of the College.

The article has one table and seven figures, one of which is a plan of the site as it was being developed during the years of 1967 - 1974.  :)
Title: Re: New toy arrived!
Post by: .Griff. on June 29, 2013, 12:23:34 PM
Some more photos courtesy of Staffordshire County Council*

(http://i.imgur.com/onn9UjW.jpg)

(http://i.imgur.com/RA1w3Cx.jpg)

(http://i.imgur.com/bgroBFB.jpg)

(http://i.imgur.com/0lLbRuU.jpg)

(http://i.imgur.com/uBg9zd9.jpg)

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v427/griff_90/14312-0_zps006a29e5.jpg)

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v427/griff_90/24338-0_zps61e904a2.jpg)

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v427/griff_90/14326-0_zps3d5e77d3.jpg)

* - http://www.search.staffspasttrack.org.uk/
Title: Re: New toy arrived!
Post by: BritBrat on July 09, 2013, 04:16:44 PM
two available on Ebay £799 each  :D surely the HG612 WinGraphs can do the same job ???


You could make an offer, none has been made so far.
Title: Re: New toy arrived!
Post by: burakkucat on July 09, 2013, 06:03:43 PM
I'm sure (when I looked) they do not support VDSL2, only up to ADSL2+.  :(

Edit: I now see that 'VDSL' has been added to the description but when I first looked (and checked the SIMs), they appeared to be just basic up to ADSL2+ devices . . .
Title: Re: New toy arrived!
Post by: ColinS on July 09, 2013, 07:44:06 PM
The reminiscences, above, promoted me to check a collection of the POEEJ that is in my possession.

Volume 63, Part 2, dated July 1970, has an article titled The Post Office Technical Training College, by N. Fox, C.ENG., M.I.E.E. The synopsis reads as follows:

Quote
The primary function of the Post Office Technical Training College at Stone, Staffordshire, is to provide vocational training for up to 750 engineering students, who are drawn mainly from the Technician and Technical Officer grades. This article gives a brief survey of the object, training organization, accommodation, teaching techniques, training methods and working policy of the College.

The article has one table and seven figures, one of which is a plan of the site as it was being developed during the years of 1967 - 1974.  :)
Re-developed (even then), as The Post Office Central Training School was moved from Dollis Hill in North London to a site near Stone, Staffordshire in 1946!

There were various other Regional Training Schools as well, e.g. Muirhouse in Edinburgh, and at the Government Buildings (Nissan Huts!) in St. George's Road, Harrogate, where I did my Basic Auto (TO's qualifying) course while still an apprentice in 1971!  ;D

See here:  http://www.geolocation.ws/v/W/File%3ABT%20Training%20Centre%20-%20geograph.org.uk%20-%2046943.jpg/-/en  (http://www.geolocation.ws/v/W/File%3ABT%20Training%20Centre%20-%20geograph.org.uk%20-%2046943.jpg/-/en)
Title: Re: New toy arrived!
Post by: Black Sheep on July 09, 2013, 08:03:36 PM
I prefer Harrogate to Stone, every time. Or should I say, 'preferred'.
The meals were always of a high standard, and the nightlife in Harrogate was fantastic. Alas, as with all things cutbacks have turned this place into all but a shell. I believe it's earmarked for complete closure (just rumour I hasten to add), as most training is now driven locally. IE- The trainer comes to you as opposed to the other way around.

They may close the training school, but they'll never take my memories of 'Gyrating Geoffrey'. Anyone who frequented Harrogate in the 80's and 90' should know who I'm talking about ??. The oldest swinger in town bar none.

Was always busy in the town centre, as there was an Army training barracks there, a Police training school, and of course us plebs. He he he, I'm smiling whilst I type this thinking of the craic we used to have. Cheers Colin for stirring great memories.  ;D
Title: Re: New toy arrived!
Post by: ColinS on July 09, 2013, 08:32:12 PM
I prefer Harrogate to Stone, every time. Or should I say, 'preferred'.
The meals were always of a high standard, and the nightlife in Harrogate was fantastic. Alas, as with all things cutbacks have turned this place into all but a shell. I believe it's earmarked for complete closure (just rumour I hasten to add), as most training is now driven locally. IE- The trainer comes to you as opposed to the other way around.

They may close the training school, but they'll never take my memories of 'Gyrating Geoffrey'. Anyone who frequented Harrogate in the 80's and 90' should know who I'm talking about ??. The oldest swinger in town bar none.

Was always busy in the town centre, as there was an Army training barracks there, a Police training school, and of course us plebs. He he he, I'm smiling whilst I type this thinking of the craic we used to have. Cheers Colin for stirring great memories.  ;D
If this keeps up, we'll need to move the thread to the 'Lounge'.  ;D

Yes, Harrogate every time.  We used to haunt the old Alexandra Hotel bar on Prospect Place (West Park).
There's an apochrophal story about the instructor we had, Harry Johnstone. Great character.  True Yorkshireman, quite rightly felt that Yorkshire deserved full independence!  Anyway, he was 'canny' with money as we Scots say, and the story goes that his wife decided to embarasss him into replacing his worn-out trousers, by buying him the most revolting ones she could find - think Rupert the Bear's yellow plaid!  She presented these to Harry, who went 'nice trousers' and off he went to work at St. Georges Road!    :-[ :paperbag: :no::lol:
Title: Re: New toy arrived!
Post by: renluop on July 09, 2013, 08:43:53 PM
.... and I've always thought Harrogate was teashops and dowagers. :o ;D
Title: Re: New toy arrived!
Post by: Black Sheep on July 09, 2013, 08:45:20 PM
Ha ha .......... strange breed those instructors. My favourite was 'George the Geordie'. Literally only about 5 foot tall, but a personality twice his size. If I said 'Chubby Brown', you'd probably have an idea as to the type of humour in his classes.
Great days.
Title: Re: New toy arrived!
Post by: ColinS on July 09, 2013, 09:05:46 PM
Great days.
Sure were ...  >:D
Title: Re: New toy arrived!
Post by: burakkucat on July 09, 2013, 09:12:20 PM
.... and I've always thought Harrogate was teashops and dowagers. :o ;D

Not forgetting the mystery of Agatha Christie's disappearance and subsequent discovery at the Old Swan Hotel in the town.  ;)
Title: Re: New toy arrived!
Post by: ColinS on July 09, 2013, 09:18:42 PM
[Not forgetting the mystery of Agatha Christie's disappearance and subsequent discovery at the Old Swan Hotel in the town.  ;)
I deny any involvement! :D
Title: Re: New toy arrived!
Post by: DeadMan on July 21, 2013, 07:28:08 PM
Wannna come test my line? :)