Kitz Forum

Computer Software => Windows => Topic started by: tuftedduck on December 15, 2007, 11:33:30 AM

Title: TD's computer is very ill
Post by: tuftedduck on December 15, 2007, 11:33:30 AM
Firstly, I aplogise if this is in the wrong section, I'm not sure if this is a Windows or a hardware problem.

Am running XP Sp2, and my machine is sick  :'(

About once in every four attempts to boot my machine, I am faced with a black screen with a notation along the top telling me that Windows cannot start as Window?system32/config/system is missing or cannot be found.

I don't know what is the right thing to do, but I find that if I tap F8 key, a box appears asking what drive I want to boot from. I scroll down using the arrow keys onto my c drive, hit the enter key and .................it starts as normal.
Thereafter, all works just as it should.

I have done system restores and checkdiscs, the problem goes away for a bit and the thing boots normally, then the problem re-occurs.

Have done virus/spyware checks, nothing found.

Is my hdd on it's way out, should I do a complete re-install of Windows, or attempt a repair install.

All advices gratefully received.
Title: Re: TD's computer is very ill
Post by: Floydoid on December 15, 2007, 11:41:46 AM
I think you've almost answered your own question... my plan of action would be

1) Repair install of Windows, if that fails then

2) Clean install of Windows, if that also fails

3) Fit new hard drive (just as I had to do this week)
Title: Re: TD's computer is very ill
Post by: tuftedduck on December 15, 2007, 12:07:17 PM
OK, Floydoid, thank you for rour reply.

Will try in the sequence you suggest.

Don't know what I am doing, so will have to fiddle and I have no idea when or if I can get back to say how things went.

Bye for now, see you about 2010.
Title: Re: TD's computer is very ill
Post by: Floydoid on December 15, 2007, 12:11:09 PM
Well if you have any questions, just ask.
Title: Re: TD's computer is very ill
Post by: tuftedduck on December 15, 2007, 12:41:00 PM
Floydy, looking to do this the simplest way, and on the assumption that the drive is going.

I have a slave drive fitted, much newer, less worked ( it only has docs/settings back ups on it), and an external hard drive.

If I were to move the whole of the slave drive onto the external, format the slave and then use my Acronis True Image to clone the C drive onto the slave, then install the slave as the master, would that be a reasonable procedure ?

OK, if the system32/config folder has gone from the current master, it would not be in the "clone", but there again, if the file is missing, why does everything work properly once the machine does start........further, if the file is used only at start up and is missing, why does it eventually start ?

The other alternative is to wipe the slave drive, and reinstall Windows and everything else onto that, after making it the master , and I do have a full XP installation disc, an Sp" disc, a motherboard disc with lots of drivers and then all my prog dics,printers etc discs.
Will try the clone thing first, and see what happens.
Title: Re: TD's computer is very ill
Post by: kitz on December 15, 2007, 12:49:02 PM
Just a couple of simple things to check in view of the fact that it asks which drive you wish to boot from...  and then if you choose the drive it starts normally.

1) Your boot .ini file

From msconfig - open the BOOT.INI tab - check it says something like (this is mine)

[boot loader]
timeout=30
default=multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(1)\WINDOWS
[operating systems]
multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(1)\WINDOWS="Microsoft Windows XP Home Edition" /fastdetect /NoExecute=OptIn

2) Do you have any USB/other devices attached that it could be trying to boot from?
Check the bios to ensure that it should be booting from the HDD before USB.




Title: Re: TD's computer is very ill
Post by: Floydoid on December 15, 2007, 12:59:13 PM
Your strategy sounds good to me, but one other thing you could try, even before the repair install is to run system file check:

goto start/run, type "sfc /scannow" without the quotes, and have your XP/SP2 disks handy.
Title: Re: TD's computer is very ill
Post by: tuftedduck on December 15, 2007, 01:00:02 PM
Thank you Kitz............this may be a problem in the boot.ini

Mine is the same as yours except at the end of the last line you have the words "OptIn" whereas mine has "OptOut"

Nothing else plugged which it may be trying to boot from, other than when faced with the "no file" thingy as described above, I put in my XP disc and change the boot sequence to the CD drive.
Just a thought, having made that change, would it revert back to the hdd by default on the next boot, or would it still be set to the CD drive........will check.

Hovever, the boot.ini entry appears to be wrong, how would I change that, if indeed I should change that.

Thank you again for your time and trouble.
Title: Re: TD's computer is very ill
Post by: Floydoid on December 15, 2007, 01:18:10 PM
To find boot.ini, it's in the root of c:\, but you need to change the view options to show (a) hidden files and folders, and (b) protected operating system files - XP will moan at you for wanting to do this. 

Use notepad to edit it.
Title: Re: TD's computer is very ill
Post by: mr_chris on December 15, 2007, 02:19:26 PM
The OptIn and OptOut variation is to do with Data Execution Prevention, I believe...

Sounds to me like your hard drive, to be honest. So I'd make sure you have everything valuable backed up just to be safe, in case it does go.

If it is on its way out (what make is it, by the way, there are probably diagnostics on the manufacturer's website), then get it cloned ASAP, that way you have less chance of the disk failing half way through cloning.

Also, a much simpler thought, have you tried changing the hard drive cable? Or at least making sure it's plugged in tightly.

I'd still investigate your hard drive as a matter of urgency, though.
Title: Re: TD's computer is very ill
Post by: tuftedduck on December 15, 2007, 03:29:16 PM
Hallo all, and thank you all very much for your help, comments and guidance.

Drive C succesfully cloned onto what was Drive K and which is now purring away as drive C.

All docs and settings working fine, Windows re-activated, tried booting down and back up a couple of times and all seems well (time will tell )

Old c drive sitting on desk looking glum, will maybe try it as a storage slave.

Will see the morrow brings, shutting down now, at my age I have had enough of computers for one day.

Thanks again.
Title: Re: TD's computer is very ill
Post by: tuftedduck on December 15, 2007, 06:03:32 PM
Well, I said above that had had enough for the day............but I could not resist another peek.

Booted up just fine, just like the old days. I think that you are all correct and that the drive was dying, and now that it is out of the tower, I appreciate just how odd and loud were the noises coming from it, noises which I had attributed to the fan.

Made one mistake, and this may help others in the same boat, although all you techie experts will no doubt not have done what old TD did. I knew that I would have to reactivate Windows, and that went off no problem at all ( and on-line too ), but..................I forgot about the need to re-authorise and re-activate my Photoshop CS2.
Talk about a hassle with Adobe, on-line and with no real person to speak to. That took THREE HOURS.

I realise now that the way to go is to uninstall CS2 before making the clone, and at some point in the uninstallation process there is an option to preserve you activation/authorisation detail "in order to move your program to another computer", then having done that, just reinstall it onto the new, cloned drive with the activation stuff intact.

Will remember that next time.

As my "new" c drive is tiny at only 80 GB, will treat myself to a nice new big drive as a Chrimbo pressie from me to me and then probably repeat the process and reinstall the new c drive back as a slave...........a slave is handy with CS2 as you need a decent size paging file for it, and it likes it better when that file is on a seperate drive to itself.

Thank you all for once again putting up with and old and computer illiterate fogey.
Title: Re: TD's computer is very ill
Post by: Floydoid on December 15, 2007, 06:53:43 PM
I only have a 40 GB drive for my system drive, which for a typical windows installation is more than adequate.  My slave (user files) drive is much bigger.
Title: Re: TD's computer is very ill
Post by: tuftedduck on December 15, 2007, 07:16:38 PM
Hullo again, Floydoid.

Yup, what was I thinking about.............new slave of a decent size and all my data files onto that, leave the C drive for Windows and the progs.

Talking of progs, Acronis True Image is a beautiful thing, so easy to use and so effective.

Off to bed this time.

Thanks again for your help and support, much appreciated.
Title: Re: TD's computer is very ill
Post by: Floydoid on December 15, 2007, 08:27:11 PM
Something like this won't break the bank for a decent slave drive:

http://www.ebuyer.com/product/55242

Glad you're getting sorted btw. :)
Title: Re: TD's computer is very ill
Post by: tuftedduck on December 16, 2007, 10:57:54 AM
Good morning, he grins after a flawless boot up  ;D

Floydoid, thank you for the link, that drive would seem to be the sort of thing I want.
Can, however, I ask one further question.

That drive was IDE ATA 100, according to my motherboard book, I want an IDE ATA 133. Is that a different beast ?

Thank you.
Title: Re: TD's computer is very ill
Post by: Pwiggler on December 16, 2007, 01:12:42 PM
the 100 and 133 in the ATA is the burst speed of the drive ....ie. the max it can deliver data to the mainboard.

the ata100 will work perfectly well but under some circumstances will be a little slower (not that you would notice tho).

Title: Re: TD's computer is very ill
Post by: tuftedduck on December 16, 2007, 01:27:07 PM
Thank you Pwiggler.

Will go and part with some cash  :(

Title: Re: TD's computer is very ill
Post by: tuftedduck on January 17, 2008, 03:45:18 PM
I wonder if some kind soul could help to explain a mystery which is puzzling what passes for a mind in TD's bonse.

Prior to all the above fiddlings, Belarc Advisor informed me that I was the proud possessor of an AMD Athlon 1.8GHz
processor ( not the fastest but good enough for my needs )

After the above events, Belarc tells me that I now have an AMD Duron 1.45GHz processor.

I did not change the chip and do not understand why removing a hard drive and replacing it with another can alter the chip.

The machine is as fast ( or as slow  :D ) as it was before, and am just mystified as to what has happened.

Grateful for any advice.
Title: Re: TD's computer is very ill
Post by: oldfogy on January 17, 2008, 05:32:49 PM
Sorry no explanantion here, but you could  try disconnecting the new HD to see what report Belarc then tells you?

Might just help to solve the riddle.
Title: Re: TD's computer is very ill
Post by: Floydoid on January 17, 2008, 06:59:17 PM
What does My Computer / properties tell you, re. processor?

You could also try a different system properties tool such as SANDRA.
Title: Re: TD's computer is very ill
Post by: tuftedduck on January 17, 2008, 07:02:49 PM
Thanks for the suggestion, OF, will give that a go tomorrow and let you know what transpires.

Floydoid, thank you too. The My Comp/properties  reports the same as Belarc............, will try the alternative tool and let you know.
Title: Re: TD's computer is very ill
Post by: guest on January 17, 2008, 08:35:42 PM
What does it say at the boot splash screen? Eg - if it is a 1.8GHz Athlon then it should be reported as an Athlon XP 2200+

Edit - a quick google yields this :

http://2fcareers.computing.net/hardware/wwwboard/forum/28377.html
Title: Re: TD's computer is very ill
Post by: tuftedduck on January 18, 2008, 11:56:28 AM
Good morning, and the plot thickens.

This morning, and according to both Belarc and My Computer/properties.............I now have an AMD Athlon XP2400 2.00 GHz.

Rizla, I tried and failed to see the BIOS screen, either I am not quick enough or was doing something wrong, but could not open it. Will try again later when Colin, the local PC builder, comes round to have a look.

Thanks for the link, will get Col to put in a new cmos battery, see what that does. The date and time and constant and correct but that link does suggest that a dying battery may have the effect I am seeing.

Just to cheer up the day, wee screenie attached with todays properties.

This is getting exciting, tomorrow it might tell me that I have some super fast quad core thing !!

[attachment deleted by admin]
Title: Re: TD's computer is very ill
Post by: tuftedduck on January 19, 2008, 11:22:00 AM
A quick note to finish off the story.

Took the machine to bits and had a look at the chip etc., and I definitley have a AMD Athlon XP2400 2.00 GHz. processor.

Quite why it reported something else on a couple of occasions, I cannot find a convincing reason........but will forget that until and if it happens again.

Put in new battery, might as well whilst the tower was opened.

Thanks to all for reading my post, and for your help and guidance.
Title: Re: TD's computer is very ill
Post by: guest on January 19, 2008, 11:46:45 AM
I have a couple of old Shuttle boxes which sometimes set the front-side bus (FSB) frequency to 100MHz instead of 166MHz. I never have worked out why but a hard reset (reset button) sorts it out, so you're not alone. I guess the processors fitted (Athlon 2800+) have a high enough multiplier that they don't get reported as Durons ???

I'd say it must be the FSB to blame in your case too. If it happens again then try resetting using the reset button and see whether that helps.
Title: Re: TD's computer is very ill
Post by: tuftedduck on January 19, 2008, 04:37:34 PM
Hokeydokey, will do.........ta.