Kitz Forum

Computer Software => Windows => Topic started by: chrissie on April 07, 2013, 08:00:36 AM

Title: Deleted items not showing in recycle bin
Post by: chrissie on April 07, 2013, 08:00:36 AM
Hi all

Something different happening with the recycle bin on my lappy (running Win 7) which has been ok until a few days ago.  When I delete things, instead of going into and showing up in the recycle bin like they used to there's no sign of deleted items and the dialogue box that used to come up to ask if I want to send them to the bin doesn't come up anymore even though it's ticked to do so.   :(

I notice too that a blue and yellow shield is against "delete" and "rename" in the drop down menu when I right click on an item to delete it.  I didn't realise it was being deleted permanently until I looked in the r/bin to check up what was in there.  Is there any way I can get it back to how it was, i.e. take those shields off which I think means administrator rights or summat - (have got one against malwarebyte icon on desktop too which there never used to be) and get it back to normal?  Was wondering if I have inadvertently clicked something whilst doing a lot of deleting, but then the properties for the r/bin is set not to delete permanently anyway.

Thanks in advance for any help, I've got to renew subs for Norton's on this lappy in a day or two and would to like to sort this before I do if I can.  :(  Cheers guys.
Title: Re: Deleted items not showing in recycle bin
Post by: renluop on April 07, 2013, 03:26:20 PM
Have you looked at the Recycle bin properties ( right click)? There is an option to by pass it wen deleting. Has that been selected accidentally?

There might be something in these search suggestion from  Windows7 Forums (http://www.sevenforums.com/gtsearch.php?cx=partner-pub-7156303416008077%3A4597694737&cof=FORID%3A9&ie=UTF-8&q=recycle+bin&siteurl=www.sevenforums.com%2F&ref=&ss=4584j2557026j11)
Title: Re: Deleted items not showing in recycle bin
Post by: chrissie on April 07, 2013, 04:20:05 PM
Have you looked at the Recycle bin properties ( right click)? There is an option to by pass it wen deleting. Has that been selected accidentally?

There might be something in these search suggestion from  Windows7 Forums (http://www.sevenforums.com/gtsearch.php?cx=partner-pub-7156303416008077%3A4597694737&cof=FORID%3A9&ie=UTF-8&q=recycle+bin&siteurl=www.sevenforums.com%2F&ref=&ss=4584j2557026j11)

Hiya, yes that is exactly as it's always been, not checked for by passing the bin and checked for the dialogue box to ask me if I want to send to the bin.  The windows 7 shield was never next to the delete and rename items in the list (when you right click on an item the drop down list includes those and open and send to etc etc).  Those icons were never in there but since they have been, nothing is going to the recycle bin even though it should be cos the properties box is sorted for that.  Just wish I could sort it, read something about administrators rights or whatever re the shield but I can't work out what I have to do. I will have a look at the link thanks. Sorry to be a pain in the proverbial... :(
Title: Re: Deleted items not showing in recycle bin
Post by: kitz on April 07, 2013, 06:21:05 PM
Hi  chrissie

Ive noted that you say all the correct boxes in the recycle bin..   If you have more than one drive you will need to check settings for all drives.

1) Just checking that this is the type shield that you are seeing
(http://res2.windows.microsoft.com/resbox/en/windows%207/main/3042060d-9fae-4ba8-a32a-1f75f1cdbe9b_69.jpg)

If it is user rights, Id be interested in knowing what level its set the rights at as Im unsure if say its a prog file, windows file, or something on a separate drive...... or something simple from your desktop as a user.

2) Just checking that you arent deleting from a different drive for eg d:/

3) Checking that you arent deleting via a programme..  for example if Im using dreamweaver & I delete a file from there, then it automatically bypasses the recycle bin..   there are a few other progs that can do this too such as favourites in IE.

4 ) Starting with something simple as a test
Can you create a file on your desktop... anything will do such as a picture or text file ...  and then see if you can delete that... and what options you get.
Title: Re: Deleted items not showing in recycle bin
Post by: renluop on April 07, 2013, 06:36:51 PM
@ kitz

What do you think of what I was about to post
Some thoughts!

Do you actually want to recover any of the deleted files? If "yes" Recuva may be a good bet.

You could try and use a previous version of the Recycle Bin, if one is available.
To find the recycle bin location:
click on Windows>Computer>(OS)C: then when the page appears
 click  Organise> Folder Options >View then in the drop down
select Show hidden files & folders: deselect Hide Protected Operation System Files.Click Apply.

You will se an item $Recyclebin. Right click. Select Restore Previous versions. Hopefully you will find on that predates your troubles.

( I assume you are a sole user with adminstator rights. If you meet with a warning that you need permission just click on continue).

If that does not work you could try deleting the bin, restarting computer, when you may well find a replacement, again hopefully behaving properly. I have deleted the bin and a one has always shown up.

Now wait for the experts to chastise me! ;)
Title: Re: Deleted items not showing in recycle bin
Post by: chrissie on April 07, 2013, 09:56:07 PM
Thanks for your input.  Right...bear with me.  @ Kitz yes that's the shield that appears next to the two items delete and rename in the favorites box when I right click on item to delete it then deletes it (no query or you can't do that etc) and no dialogue box appears to ask me if I'm sure I want to send to bin...which it always did.  Now you've mentioned about creating something and deleting it I did that this afternoon on desktop, click on to delete it and the dialogue box came up asking if I was sure I wanted to send to bin.....so the recycle bin IS working for that.  It seems that the shields next to delete in the favorites is preventing it going into r/c bin which of course it never did because they weren't there.  I can only think I've done something without knowing (because I never click on things unless I take time to consider the result) and whilst I was deleting from the favorites.

As for user rights, I'm lost there.  When this boots up I sign in and that's it.  I don't ever have to sign in anywhere else when doing things on the lappy and never set it to.  I wouldn't know how to see what levels it's on or what the shields apply to, I haven't a clue (you know I'm a technophobe lol).  So seeing that I can delete desktop items it must be that the favorites has administrators rights or whatever it is for deleting and renaming files there but how come it deletes straight away?  The drive highlighted for r/c bin is C and max size is set to 16000.

@renloup, from what I've said above it doesn't look like it's the r/c bin if I can delete other stuff and it goes in there and as for administrators rights it doesn't ask anything when I delete from favorites and I don't have to sign in.  Gawd knows how I can solve this because I'm really clueless with "fixing things" lol.  No hope for me eh.   :-[
Title: Re: Deleted items not showing in recycle bin
Post by: HPsauce on April 07, 2013, 10:09:05 PM
Hmm. I don't have much to say except that I'm deeply suspicious of Norton in this situation.
I'd also be thinking about trying a System Restore if it's quite recent.
Title: Re: Deleted items not showing in recycle bin
Post by: chrissie on April 07, 2013, 10:54:21 PM
Hmm. I don't have much to say except that I'm deeply suspicious of Norton in this situation.
I'd also be thinking about trying a System Restore if it's quite recent.

Hi HP - I don't feel it's Norton's though I could be wrong, thought if it was why didn't it do it to all items to be deleted whereas it doesn't on the desktop items.  As for system restore, could do it easily on Win XP, haven't got a clue on Win 7 (scream) I've looked several times but gave up because I didn't understand and in case I did something that messed up  :-\
Title: Re: Deleted items not showing in recycle bin
Post by: kitz on April 07, 2013, 11:24:23 PM
Quote
Now wait for the experts to chastise me!

I'd like to think not..  especially when you are making sensible suggestions to help someone :)

----

Chrissie...  so it appears that recycle bin is working correctly if you delete files from your desktop

Then I notice you say favorites...  is its just favorites that this is happening on?

 

Is it from within IE > Favorites > Delete ?   
If so this is deleting via another program and it doesnt ask for confirmation and it bypasses the recycle bin.   Ive just tried this myself on here on IE and it deletes without any confirmation nor does it send to the recycle bin.
Same if Im working in Dreamweaver and I delete a page....  that also doesnt send it to the recycle bin. 


I've just done a quick google..  and it appears this 'feature' has been in place since 2009 on win 7. - See microsoft.com (http://social.technet.microsoft.com/Forums/en-US/w7itprogeneral/thread/4ecddf9c-e510-4e68-92bc-015497722e51/)


(http://py5fnq.blu.livefilestore.com/y1pMWJm7IjExiBgflxjiyDd8zMFasqozODKxNnA3Ylyb00__HFBRIlNSgeEBF8d5WJwkusoynZhzNJ9VE5xhGKZgA/IE%208%20favorites2.jpg)
Title: Re: Deleted items not showing in recycle bin
Post by: chrissie on April 07, 2013, 11:43:57 PM
Kitz, how strange you showing the screen shot, I've just taken a screen shot on mine to show you exactly how it is and of course it's as you display it, you beat me to it.  Yes you're correct, deleting just as you say, from IE Favs drop down menu etc.  It deletes from desktop ok straight into the bin.  However,  I have things on the favorites BAR and when I right click on them there's no shield...so why do they show from the drop down favs menu and not on the bar?  Also if it's been a "feature" since 2009 it's only just shown up on mine as it has always asked me if I'm sure I want to send to bin and promptly sent where I can then view the favorites that I've deleted and in some instances have restored them.

Wondering if my "feature" hasn't kicked in before now because it came via the scenic route  :lol:  Just would like to know though why the shields aren't displayed on delete and rename from the favorites bar but are as per your picture from the drop down fav MENU.  The mind boggles (or this one does lol).
Title: Re: Deleted items not showing in recycle bin
Post by: renluop on April 08, 2013, 07:06:29 AM
FWIW, I have never seen the shield, but that's may be because I only use Chrome and IE emulation?

Thanks, Kitz, for kind remark
Title: Re: Deleted items not showing in recycle bin
Post by: chrissie on April 08, 2013, 08:18:34 AM
Morning all,

I can't thank you enough Kitz for finding that out, I thought I was going mad people asking if I imagined that deleted items went into recycle bin and that they never did really!  :o  Reading through the link you gave, what a palaver they were putting people through just to sort out what THEY had caused...no way would I do all that on my pc in case I messed up.  The only explanation that I can come up with as to why it's happened on mine now when I KNOW I didn't have it happen before nor that the shields were there is that they must have patched that after the complaint and some recent update has caused it to happen again  >:( 

I have only had IE10 on this a couple of weeks and as I say it deleted as per normal until up to a few days ago and then it changed to what it is now.  Is there any way I can email Microsoft about this do you think as someone needs to point it out again and refer them to that page you kindly found for me?

Thanks again Kitz...you have saved my sanity  ;D ;D
Title: Re: Deleted items not showing in recycle bin
Post by: HPsauce on April 08, 2013, 08:51:58 AM
Is it from within IE > Favorites > Delete ?   
Ah, so we were all pursuing a red herring due to lack of clarity in the original problem description.  :'(

FWIW I'm running W7x64 with IE9 (not IE10) and the shield shows up those functions on Favourites there. As I never use them ("Favorites" sic  :-X ) I have no idea when it appeared.
I'm running as administrator and the delete function just executes without a query. And no, they don't go to the Recycle bin, but I wouldn't expect them to.
Title: Re: Deleted items not showing in recycle bin
Post by: chrissie on April 08, 2013, 09:02:16 AM
Is it from within IE > Favorites > Delete ?   
Ah, so we were all pursuing a red herring due to lack of clarity in the original problem description.  :'( 

HP I'm sorry you found my description of the problem lacking in clarity.  AFAIC I gave my best and strange how kitz managed to weedle the problem out and find exactly what was wrong (for which I can't thank her enough).  I explained it as it was and tried to be clear on that, what part of the following did you not understand?

 "When I delete things, instead of going into and showing up in the recycle bin like they used to there's no sign of deleted items and the dialogue box that used to come up to ask if I want to send them to the bin doesn't come up anymore even though it's ticked to do so."     

I apologise if your lack of understanding has been my fault!

Chrissie
Title: Re: Deleted items not showing in recycle bin
Post by: HPsauce on April 08, 2013, 09:07:08 AM
When I delete things,
Ah, well you didn't clarify or specify what "things" you meant which suggested "any things", but Kitz spotted a (much later - post 5 I think) reference to Favourites which suggested that was within IE, rather than just general files and other objects anywhere on your PC.  8)
I apologise if your lack of understanding has been my fault!
Accepted.  ;D
Title: Re: Deleted items not showing in recycle bin
Post by: kitz on April 08, 2013, 11:29:16 AM
I'd rather we all played nice..  we all got there in the end and everyone suggestion was useful :)


>>> Wondering if my "feature" hasn't kicked in before now because it came via the scenic route

Its probably re-occurred then with some update.   I dont use IE so I wouldnt have a clue when it was introduced.  I would assume though it is an IE -cough- 'feature' -cough- and something in IEs programming.  Because you arent doing a straight forward delete, but instead using IE to delete files...   In cases like this then its up to the program to send any confirmation messages... which it obviously isnt. :(
Title: Re: Deleted items not showing in recycle bin
Post by: HPsauce on April 08, 2013, 11:48:44 AM
I'd rather we all played nice.. 
I'm definitely playing nice. Spot the emoticons.  ;)
Bit surprised by Chrissie's wording, but sometimes people misunderstand and think statements of fact are criticism.  8)

At the end of the day we're not mindreaders here and can only assist based on what we're told.
Title: Re: Deleted items not showing in recycle bin
Post by: kitz on April 08, 2013, 12:01:33 PM
okies...  sorry if I misunderstood  :D 
Title: Re: Deleted items not showing in recycle bin
Post by: HPsauce on April 08, 2013, 12:19:40 PM
I dont use IE so I wouldnt have a clue when it was introduced. 
And I do use IE but still don't have a clue when it was introduced or what it's for.  :lol:
I'd never seen it before and there's no indication when you see it what the significance is.  ???
Title: Re: Deleted items not showing in recycle bin
Post by: oldfogy on April 08, 2013, 02:29:48 PM
Possibly off topic but what I find with my computer setup which is connected to a NAS box which in one respect I suppose would be classed as being on a network and is used to store all working files, is that deleted files are never in the recycle bin, this is not something new but something I first noticed when I had my NAS box, so obviously care needs to be taken (especially after my first mistake)
Only files deleted from the actual PC HDD are placed in the recycle bin.
Title: Re: Deleted items not showing in recycle bin
Post by: chrissie on April 09, 2013, 08:36:45 AM
@ Kitz - since you discovered it was to do with IE I have right clicked the IE icon which is pinned to the taskbar, right clicked properties and the shield is in there against "run as administrator" so I wondered if that is where the problem could stem from (though my being a complete dummy on techy stuff I'm not sure) and someone who actually knows what they are doing (not me) would be able to alter it from there?  Just a thought though I could be barking up the wrong tree!  :-X 
Title: Re: Deleted items not showing in recycle bin
Post by: kitz on April 09, 2013, 11:40:09 AM
>>> the shield is in there against "run as administrator" so I wondered if that is where the problem could stem from

I doubt it..  its the same on mine (see screen cap).  I strongly suspect its something within the IE program code thats causing this.

It works as it should elsewhere, but when you delete from within IE itself is not doing... because its actually IE that is issuing the delete command.   There will likely be something shoddy within IE code that bypasses the normal delete process.


---------
Edited to add


Actually another google has just brought up the following reply from a  Microsoft Support Engineer -linky (http://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/ie/forum/ie9-windows_7/no-cofirm-deletions-in-internet-explorer-9/9a083922-336c-e011-8dfc-68b599b31bf5)

Quote

When you try to delete the links under Favorites in Internet Explorer 9, it doesn't confirm for deletion like how it used to do in Internet Explorer 8 and this is by design.


So  its actually a feature now of IE 9 + :/



Title: Re: Deleted items not showing in recycle bin
Post by: chrissie on April 09, 2013, 01:21:39 PM
Ah thanks Kitz, all is lost then  :( but at least it's not me having caused it to happen thank goodness.  I have to agree with the last reply on the link you gave, I too like to be given a choice!  Can't believe they would want to put something like that as a design feature...jeez...that's progress for you  :o

Many thanks again. :flower:
Title: Re: Deleted items not showing in recycle bin
Post by: c6em on April 09, 2013, 01:29:43 PM
Maybe I've missed the point in all this.....

In Firefox under XP if I delete a favorite bookmark (right click choose delete)- then it's gone forever. 
It does not go into the recycle bin and so far as I can remember this has always been the case.
Nor does it give you any warning that this is what is going to happen - you click on the delete submenu item and that's it - it's gone.
Title: Re: Deleted items not showing in recycle bin
Post by: tonyappuk on April 09, 2013, 02:26:20 PM
I think what Chrissie is complaining about and I would have the same complaint, and that is Microsoft updating a product and changing it without notice. For this reason I don't allow any auto updating until I have seen and agreed they're worthwhile. Often they are not. The fact that Firefox does a direct delete from bookmarks and always has is not a defence for Microsoft updating and not telling. If you speak to many PC professionals (I'm not one but I know a few) they can cite many instances of customer's machines being altered unwittingly after a Microsoft Tuesday update and the trouble they have to recover the customer's machine to a useable state. Sympathies, Chrissie and glad you solved the problem.
Tony
Title: Re: Deleted items not showing in recycle bin
Post by: chrissie on April 09, 2013, 02:39:36 PM
I think what Chrissie is complaining about and I would have the same complaint, and that is Microsoft updating a product and changing it without notice. For this reason I don't allow any auto updating until I have seen and agreed they're worthwhile. Often they are not. The fact that Firefox does a direct delete from bookmarks and always has is not a defence for Microsoft updating and not telling. If you speak to many PC professionals (I'm not one but I know a few) they can cite many instances of customer's machines being altered unwittingly after a Microsoft Tuesday update and the trouble they have to recover the customer's machine to a useable state. Sympathies, Chrissie and glad you solved the problem.
Tony

Hi Tony,

You're right, I am annoyed that they change things without drawing attention by notification especially when up until last week IE re the favorites was doing what I was always used to - asking if I was sure I wanted to send the item (in favorites) to the recycle bin and I always clicked yes or ok...then looked thru the bin later in case I changed my mind about what I'd deleted or made a slip of the mouse and deleted the wrong thing (old duffers like me can do such a thing lol).  Now of course if I make a mistake I don't get the option to reinstate the site.  The link that kitz gave with the complaint of that on it, the person there said the same thing, would prefer the choice.  It was kitz who found the item even though I'd googled it myself I didn't find that article (probably unclear in my search...).  I had thought of contacting MS about this "feature" (ha ha) but if it's in their (wonderful?) design...then no chance I guess.  Thanks for adding to this because it helps to let people know that there are some of us upset at certain changes but haven't got a voice to be heard amongst the masses  ;D

Chrissie
Title: Re: Deleted items not showing in recycle bin
Post by: kitz on April 09, 2013, 09:42:22 PM
I agree it is annoying when something is changed that you previously liked :(


>> In Firefox under XP if I delete a favorite bookmark

Its not unusual when using other programs to delete files (such as Firefox/Dreamweaver etc etc)  that they dont get sent to the recycle bin. 

When you program/write new software that has the option to delete... what you are in fact doing is simply deleting the pointer to the file. 
The file will still be there on your PC, but you have removed the reference to where that file is located on the hard drive..  which is where it will sit until over written by something else.

Recycle bin is a 'Windows thing'..  and not something all Operating Systems (such as Linux) has.  When you delete a file from your desktop then it is Windows that is performing the action and moving the file to the recycle bin.

When using a program such as IE to send something to the recycle bin - its not impossible - but requires a separate function to be written into the program and therefore a pile  more code...  which is why many programs just dont have the option to send to recycle bin and simply destroy the file pointer.

I must admit none of the programs Ive written in my time have I bothered to send to recycle bin and its a case of destroying the file pointer.  Im not sure, but I should imagine writing something to send to the recycle bin could be a mini program of its own because youd have to keep track of where it was originally stored so that the file could be moved and restored if needed.  :-\
Title: Re: Deleted items not showing in recycle bin
Post by: HPsauce on April 09, 2013, 10:25:16 PM
Its not unusual when using other programs to delete files (such as Firefox/Dreamweaver etc etc)  that they dont get sent to the recycle bin. 
TBH I'd be surprised if they ever did it.  :-X
Depending on what the object was that was deleted you are going to need the "managing program" to restore it and any related links/indexes etc. correctly so that it functions as before within that program.
If the program isn't running (and chances are it won't be) when you decide to restore it from the RB, what happens then?
Title: Re: Deleted items not showing in recycle bin
Post by: kitz on April 09, 2013, 11:39:47 PM

TBH I'd be surprised if they ever did it.  :-X

Depending on what the object was that was deleted you are going to need the "managing program" to restore it and any related links/indexes etc. correctly so that it functions as before within that program.
If the program isn't running (and chances are it won't be) when you decide to restore it from the RB, what happens then?

TBH I cant think of any program that does... which is why I specifically mentioned it in my first reply (http://forum.kitz.co.uk/index.php/topic,12399.msg233597.html#msg233597)..  but I was uncertain if this is fact for sure for all programs.  There probably is a way around it, but as mentioned above it would require a function specifically to handle it and a fair bit of extra code??  As you rightly say, the program itself would not be able to keep track of recycle bin.. so it would need to then pass the information on to the operating system for it to manage.  This is why remote drives and NAS boxes mentioned by OF just cant.

Im totally guessing here...  but I wonder if IE was previously able to do so, because it 'borrowed' some code from Windows.  It was probably much easier to do this in the past when IE was tightly integrated within Windows and shared some common resource files?