Kitz Forum
Computers & Hardware => PC Hardware => Topic started by: chrissie on March 05, 2013, 10:07:35 PM
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Hi all,
Have a 9 year old desktop, OS is Win XP SP3 with IE 8. AV is Avast Free updated version to 7.0 last week. Next day I used PC for 3 minutes then screen froze. I could not get out of it, so shutdown on the unit as all had jammed up. Have tried reboot PC lots of times, all I get on screen is "going to sleep", screen switches off and unit stays on. I have to shut the unit off by holding the button in.
Would updating the Avast newer version have caused this problem or is it due to the computer itself? I have tried unplugging everything, re-plugging and switching on but no luck it's not booting up even though power on. I wouldn't know how to do anything to "repair" a problem so could anyone help me please in simple laymen terms?
Just to sum up, the unit works in that the power comes on, the processor light flickers for a few seconds as if booting up then stops but unit still running. Screen comes up with "going to sleep" and switches to standby mode. Can do nothing else with it.
Thanks in advance for any ideas/suggestions.
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Will the pc boot in safe mode?
Press F8 repeatedly whilst the pc is trying to boot up.
http://www.microsoft.com/resources/documentation/windows/xp/all/proddocs/en-us/boot_failsafe.mspx?mfr=true
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Not sure that Safe Mode (F8) is the answer as it sounds like there's not even the normal BIOS boot-up display that would precede it.
Sounds more like a basic hardware/mobo issue nothing to do with Windows, or if you're lucky just the graphics card (if separate)
Tell us more - does ANYTHING EVER appear on the monitor? Have you tried another monitor?
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CPU needs re-greasing and re-seating? mem stick wiggled loose? PSU failing? Probably one of those £5 faults.
cheers, a
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Hi
PC doesn't boot up at all (HP is right) so couldn't get into safe mode anyway :no: Have tried another monitor on it and nothing comes up when I switch the PC on. All that comes up on the screen is a message "going to sleep" which it does! That's how it goes when I shut down the computer....but this time I've just switched it on <scream>. I thought it might be because of the new version of Avast but then others have suggested graphics card so I really don't know as I'm not into computer diagnostics anyway.
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I think we can safely say it's not Avast.
Asbokid is going in the right direction but you'll need a PC expert - or a new PC, given its age.
PSU is always a good bet and cheap and easy to replace (few screws and plugs) once you've identified the right sort.
I tend to just replace the PSU anyway given similar symptoms as it's cheaper than paying for someone's time to do any significant diagnosis and you haven't lost much if it's not the problem.
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Depending on the make of motherboard it might be possible to get an error code.
Some motherboards have a small display with two digits on the board itself and these numbers change as the PC starts to initialise until the point at which the BIOS hands over to the bootable system. So take the side off the case and look to see if there is a small display on the board, if so watch this as you hit the ON button and see if it shows anything and if so where it stops, this code might give an indication of the error.
Another method of indicating how far a motherboard gets initialising is a system of beeps from the internal speaker, count the beeps when it stops and again this number may give an idea of the error.
I'm always loathed to simply replace a PSU unless I have a good idea it is failing since a cheap PSU can be a very bad investment. With the case side off can you see if the fans are turning and can you hear if the hard drive is spinning up? If fans are not turning and hdd not spinning then it may well be a PSU fault.
Stuart
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Thanks Stuart. Firstly I must say I won't be able to take the side off, I'm really afraid to touch the computer like that because I don't know what I'm doing or if I will be able to replace the side etc etc (knowing my luck I won't be able to lol).
However, the computer is noisy as always has been, the fan is running and it sounds exactly as it always does, no different noises, just as normal. The only thing that doesn't happen is that the processor light doesn't keep on flickering as that goes for a long time when booting up. The light flickers for some seconds then stops but the motor and/or fan is still running and sounding exactly the same. All that happens then is the screen goes to sleep and goes into standby but the unit doesn't shut down like it does when I turn off the computer the usual way.
This all happened after the screen froze and I couldn't get out of it until I held the power button on to switch the computer off. When switched on again it's acted like this and nothing will shift it. :(
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Out of interest how do you turn it off when it's in that state?
e.g. what happens if you press the power button briefly once (was that a normal shutdown in the past?) and what if you hold it for a few seconds?
Or do you have to pull a plug or flick a switch?
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I think the only option you have is to take it to a (hopefully) reliable local repair shop for them to look at. Unless you are prepared to get inside it there really is nothing you can do now.
Stuart
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Hi HP
I turn it off by holding the power on button in until it shuts down, only way it will shut off :(
Stuart, I think you are right as I really can't think of repairing unless I didn't want the machine I'd probably have a go lol but if I can salvage it then I would prefer someone to do it for me but finding reliable is the key and I'm flying blind here...
A question though....Would PC World be ok to take it to as I'd have some come back if problems with them wouldn't I?
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That suggests that there is "some" control function in the motherboard.
I'd start by investigating the PSU and video card - do you know if it's separate or "onboard".
Easy way to tell is if the video cable to the monitor leaves the system unit from a connector close to others such as mouse/keyboard/printer parallel to the long side of the case or if it's on a separate small (4" or so) plate at right angles to the long side of the case.
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Stuart someone else mentioned graphics card to me but I don't know what happens to them if they go wrong. Re the video (is that a graphics card?) on board or separate..... there's two leads from monitor. One has a plug and plastic screws on to screw into the unit and that's on the left hand side above the printer lead. The other lead from monitor is "jack plug" type and is near the bottom left hand side, above telephone plug and beneath ethernet and keyboard plugs.
That's about the limit of my technological expertise lol...they are all wires to me :D
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Left right mean nothing as layouts vary and we don't know which way up it is. ;)
Is the cable with screws lying parallel to and close to the printer - or at right angles and an inch or moreaway?
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Sorry Stuart. The cable with the screws is not parallel to the printer cable it is above the printer cable at right angle hope that means something to you...(I'm a computer dummy tha' knows lol)
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I'm not Stuart. :no:
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I'm not Stuart. :no:
Oops :-[ :-[ Well there you have it.... you're talking with a senile old f*rt...sorry HP....no hope for me now is there :-[ ;D
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Anyway it sound like you have a separate video card, not an onboard one.
That means it can be replaced if it is the problem.
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Anyway it sound like you have a separate video card, not an onboard one.
That means it can be replaced if it is the problem.
Ok thanks for that, something I've learned then. Think it will be a trip to PC world for them to have a look as I really wouldn't know how to start with the "innards" of the pc....pity I didn't learn about all this some years back...hmmm.
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A question though....Would PC World be ok to take it to as I'd have some come back if problems with them wouldn't I?
Personally PC World would be the last place I'd take anything to be repaired. Ask around your friends to see if they have had good experiences with a local repairer, I'm sure there must be one somewhere near your.
Stuart
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A question though....Would PC World be ok to take it to as I'd have some come back if problems with them wouldn't I?
Sorry but as much as I like PC World for gadgets and things, the last 2 computers I have repaired were both after coming back from PC World after 'wait for it' A SERVICE, when one of them was taken back she was told 'sorry we don't repair computers' well in one sense that is true because as she was much later told 'they ship them out to be repaired' but the "Teck Guy ENGINEER" did not even know that, not to mention that the 'COMPACTED' dust in the processor cooler had never been cleaned in years.
So without going to deep, no I would not recommend PC World to repair your computer.
Maybe if you give the rough area of where you live someone here might know of a repair shop.
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hell if your in london I can do it for you - for a small fee of course! and yes i do have the qualifications and several years of experience
having been building PC's for my local neighborhood for the last 2 years, and maintaining them and such. i have dealt with many many old PC's from 3- 12 years old. and there is nothing i like better than to clean out and sort out a good old PC :D love the old buggers!!!
I will say however, there is no harm in you opening the side of the case yourself and taking a soft brush to the dust inside it and giving it a clean - and if the PC is 9 years old i imagine it will be a solid metal case so i doubt there will be any problems putting it back on.
with those cases there are normally two screws on the back of the PC that will release the side of the case and should be fairly easy to spot. if your looking at the back of the case then the screws will be down the right had side.
Once released, you can slide it backwards and then it will just lift out from there.
clean out the visible dust on everything with a soft bush. - then have a good look inside of the case.
commonly i find that The "Scream" is i would suggest dust build up in the fans on the CPU and the motor on the fan crying in pain as it cannot move, i say this with a little confidence.
It may well be any other fans on the pc that you are hearing to be "normal" and are still working ( for example a fan mounted on the rear of the pc. )
on older motherboards you will find that if the cpu fan won't spin the bios won't even respond or load up at all. you will never see a POST screen or manufacturers Logo. and old motherboards will suggest to the PC to shut down and leave the fans running to cool the pc down. in this case there will then be no signal sent to the monitor and the monitor will go into "standby" mode.
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Thanks for the input re PC World, I wasn't too sure about them though I know a lot of you techy guys don't like to get things from them, wasn't sure about their repairs.
@ Stuart...most people I know who have computers have family who can help them out...and I'm not that lucky lol, so I will have to look around.
@STS many thanks for your offer to do the repair for me, very kind of you but I'm not in London. Thanks too for the gen on getting into the case and cleaning. I'd LOVE to clean it out as I can see it's dusty and did run the hoover over the back and side grills when I took all the cables out and replugged them. I thought you have to "earth" yourself (?) when taking the case off...having read that a few years back. If I didn't mind losing everything I'd have a go at looking at it but I'd really like to salvage what I've got on it if at all possible.
Thanks to all for your help, always appreciate this site for giving good advice et al so thank you guys.
Chrissie
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if your worried about earthing yourself - there is a simple solution - you can buy yourself an ESD Strap from Dabs.com for about £2.50 :) though with old desktop computers, - turn the power off at the plug and on the back of the Power supply unit but leave it plugged into the wall. - then that way if there is any static discharge the whole computer is earthed. - for cleaning the PC out with dust this should be sufficient.
laptops on the other hand - I do use antistatic mats ESD straps and a whole lot more!!
though obviously oblivious on my own PC's to any form of protection - I always take precautions on other peoples! that is a promise
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Hello Chrissie, hope you are well :)
In all my years of working with electronics I have never Earthed myself or what I'm working on and never had any problems.
Chrissie how long do you leave it to boot up ?, if you have turned it off with the power button Windows may want to check it's hard drive and this may take some time.
Just try to boot it up, leave it, go and have lunch etc then come back later to see if it has come to life again.
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I have just spent some time googleing your problem and last year lots of people where having the same problems as you after updating Avast !
One interesting item was this "Avast has said they have a software design problem"
Every time Avast! upgrades their software, they will, and do, introduce new features, that may well conflict with existing software on a user's system. Just because it worked well in the past does not mean the new version will work at all in the user's current configuration.
The only solution was to un-install Avast and re-install That's if you can ever boot it up.
The other item I found is that Avast can preform a 'Boot Time Scan' (To look for 'Root Kits' infection) this can take place before windows starts to boot (another reason to try to boot it and leave it alone for a good time).
Good luck
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Hi Chrissie :flower:
Seems like XP users have been having problems with Avast when updating to version 8,see this thread
http://forums.computeractive.co.uk/showthread.php?t=232017
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Hi Mike and Uncy :thumbs:
I will have a go at leaving the unit on for some time, thanks for that, you never know it might wake itself up :D I just wonder why the screen goes into standyby though....I'm not computer au fait I know so I expect someone will put me right there. However....what I did was...try the screen only with no unit on and the screen still came up with "going to sleep" and switched to standby ??? I tried another screen on it before but again nowt comes up on that one when the unit it on and attached :'( so not sure what's going on. Just have to add that the little processor working/not working light only "works" for a few seconds at initial switch on and then nothing even after the 5 mins I've left the unit switched on...so will it boot up after that?
Uncy, thanks for the link re Avast :no: :no: :no: I did wonder if it was the version that it gave me to cause problems but of course me knowing nuffink thought perhaps it wouldn't do that....hmmm....now what do I do :D I'm now wondering if I should get someone to give it a thorough overhaul (it's very slow anyway and needs sorting)....or...just give up completely and buy a new unit though I've got things I really wanted to look at on this one <scream>.
Then there's the AV to sort, if Avast is giving problems what's the best free one to get instead of that, had enough trouble with AVG and got rid of that a couple of years ago....cor what I'd like to do to these *%@*!!* people who create all the problems for computer users/machines.... :-X we would have no need for AV's then methinks...
Chrissie
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Personally If you are worried about security :police: and want a good antivirus for free :lol:, - people will recommend AVG - I wouldn't for a free AV i would use comodo internet security http://antivirus.comodo.com/internet-security-for-home.php
Do yourself a favour though get yourself ESET smart security I still believe that it is better than Most other products that i have used. run the trial they have for 30 days, on one email address, and you will get the full product for that time too. if your happy with it you can buy it, - If you aren't happy about buying it then try out one of the other products available on the market. if your clever enough you can rotate the "trials" of full Internet security suites and have them all for free all year round. I did that for about 3 years!!!
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Ive gone off AVG recently -- too many false positives :/
Ive been installing MSE / M$ defender on machines of late. Im also using it on here and quite like it, not bad for a freebie :)
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I think what we really need is for Chrissie to post her approximate location in the country. With a bit of good luck, there might be a 'known' Kitizen who could then visit and give that computer a good 'talking-to'! :)
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Agreed though i will be in manchester from wednesday through to sunday. this week 8) :p
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I could be wrong because it was a long time ago, but iirc chrissie is somewhere in the midlands?
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No, she's a fellow Kentian, but unfortunately the other end of the county from me, otherwise I would be delighted to try to help. :)
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Hi guys
Thanks for all your suggestions et al it's much appreciated. As for AV's must say I had hell's own trouble with AVG, as Kitz said too many false positives and it really jiggered my computer up when I had it on there, terrible trouble trying to get rid etc, I recall peeps helping on here. That's why I went with Avast and was ok until just recently >:(
Have been thinking of getting a recon PC and ditching the PC (tho it would have been nice to get it fixed) :-\ :'( ....if I did I think I would get someone to build it so I don't have all that bloatware on...I only need the (boring) basics...WP, no music or games stuff as I don't download, would like easy to use photo suite, home publishing, ....and bits like that. Certainly don't want half the stuff I've got on this lappy nor on the kaput PC.
Will really have to make my mind up as I need a proper PC lol not just this lappy..I think a repair for the PC will knock me back about £100 or very near from what I've found out <faints>...decisions, decisions :-\
Chrissie