Kitz Forum

Broadband Related => Telephony Wiring + Equipment => Topic started by: adam on January 17, 2013, 10:16:19 PM

Title: Wiring and adsl/telephone extension advice.
Post by: adam on January 17, 2013, 10:16:19 PM
I’m looking for some wiring and adsl/telephone extension advice.

Wiring

The BT phone line comes into the house and terminates in the hallway. There in an NTE5 faceplate (BT with flame logo top left), with a 3 pair internal cable that runs from the back of this socket upstairs to the 1st extension socket in a bedroom. I have disconnected the ring wire from both ends. This socket does not have any components.

From the bedroom socket there in another 3 pair internal cable that runs back downstairs to the 2nd and last extension socket. I have disconnected the ring wire from both ends. This socket has LJ3 marked on the back and has 3 components inside. The router and phone are currently connected here with a  XF-1e filter. There are no other devices connected anywhere.

I’m not aware of any additional extensions in my ~14 year old house, so I believe I’ve accurately represented the wring. What I’d like to know is, is it correct to have the LJ3 as the last extension socket? Don’t I already have the ring capacitor etc in the NTE5?

ADSL extension.

I need to position the router upstairs as a compromise for various reasons.

I’ve purchased what was advertised as ‘Solid Core Twisted Pair BT Specification cable’ and it looked OK. I’ve run a 15M (I know) extension from the 1st existing extension socket in the bedroom and connected the filter and the router on the other end. I thought there would be a slight reduction in sync speed but it’s awful.

Here are some worst /best cases I made a note of.
Router at bedroom socket with filter. Sync down  6886, attenuation 53dB.
Router with new 15M extension from bedroom socket, sync down 4613, attenuation 55dB.

I’m not sure why, but my extension is not good, and I’ve pretty much abandoned this idea.

I’ve now had what I think is a better solution, and have a few questions.

I’m planning to swap the upstairs bedroom socket with an adsl nation XTF-85 Pre-filtered Socket, connecting it so the filtered cable runs back downstairs to the telephone. Then buy a 15M adsl nation shielded adsl cable and run it direct from the XTF-85 to the router.

Is the ADSL 15M shielded cable likely to do better than my 15M telephone extension?. I also thought I might benefit from the internal extension from upstairs bedroom to downstairs lounge also being filtered?

Sorry for the long post. I look forward to hearing your thoughts.
Title: Re: Wiring and adsl/telephone extension advice.
Post by: burakkucat on January 17, 2013, 11:13:11 PM
Hello Adam. Welcome to the Kitz forum.

Working from the start of your post, I need to check some points. At your formal NTP (Network Termination Point), the NTE5/A, is the 3-pair cable connected via the IDCs on the removable lower front section? In other words, when you release the two screws and withdraw that lower section, all extension sockets cease to operate?

Assuming that is the case, please ensure that you only have the one pair connected -- to IDC2 & IDC5.

At the first bedroom socket in that 'daisy-chain' wiring, ensure that just the same one pair is connected and then likewise at the last (the second) extension socket, downstairs. All other wires are redundant.

Following on from that, you are correct in assuming that the wrong type of socket has been deployed at the downstairs location. More on that, in a later post.

An explanation as to why you obtained poor results with your new extension wiring. By connecting it as you described, you have set up a 'bridging tap' across the pair. Let us consider the xDSL signal path. It is to/from the modem/router, to/from the first bedroom socket, to/from the hallway NTE5/A. That electrical pathway is perfectly adequate except for the pair that also leads from the first bedroom socket, back downstairs, as the feed to the original second extension socket. It is that cable which is acting as the 'bridging tap' and degrading the performance at the end of the new extension which you have just installed.

If you would now please clarify how the extension wiring is connected at the NTE5/A and then explain where you would like to be able to use (a) telephone(s), we should be able to come up with a plan of re-wring that can make use of what you already have in-situ.  :)
Title: Re: Wiring and adsl/telephone extension advice.
Post by: adam on January 18, 2013, 12:24:22 AM
Thanks for the welcome  :) and detailed response!

Hello Adam. Welcome to the Kitz forum.

Working from the start of your post, I need to check some points. At your formal NTP (Network Termination Point), the NTE5/A, is the 3-pair cable connected via the IDCs on the removable lower front section? In other words, when you release the two screws and withdraw that lower section, all extension sockets cease to operate?
Correct

Assuming that is the case, please ensure that you only have the one pair connected -- to IDC2 & IDC5.
Correct

At the first bedroom socket in that 'daisy-chain' wiring, ensure that just the same one pair is connected and then likewise at the last (the second) extension socket, downstairs. All other wires are redundant.
Correct

Following on from that, you are correct in assuming that the wrong type of socket has been deployed at the downstairs location. More on that, in a later post.

An explanation as to why you obtained poor results with your new extension wiring. By connecting it as you described, you have set up a 'bridging tap' across the pair. Let us consider the xDSL signal path. It is to/from the modem/router, to/from the first bedroom socket, to/from the hallway NTE5/A. That electrical pathway is perfectly adequate except for the pair that also leads from the first bedroom socket, back downstairs, as the feed to the original second extension socket. It is that cable which is acting as the 'bridging tap' and degrading the performance at the end of the new extension which you have just installed.
OK, interesting! I read about a bridging tap a few days ago, but didn't understand it enough to realise I had unintentionally introduced one.

If you would now please clarify how the extension wiring is connected at the NTE5/A and then explain where you would like to be able to use (a) telephone(s), we should be able to come up with a plan of re-wring that can make use of what you already have in-situ.  :)

Cool sounds good :) Ideally the phone will stay on the 2nd extension downstairs. The hall is not an option (no power nearby) and the 1st extension upstairs is less preferable. If this is detrimental, I can see about relocating the phone. As you've probably guessed sync speed is my driving factor here.
Title: Re: Wiring and adsl/telephone extension advice.
Post by: burakkucat on January 18, 2013, 01:43:42 AM
I have a plan.  ;)

The first thing you can do is to go to the second extension socket (downstairs) and physically remove (cut out) the capacitor, resistor and over-voltage protection device. That will resolve the 'doubly terminated' situation that currently exists on you line.

The main part of my plan involves fitting a SSFP to the NTE5/A so that a telephone (or telephones) can be used at the NTE5/A, the first extension (bedroom) socket or the second extension (downstairs) socket. Then, using a second pair in the cable running from the NTE5/A to the first extension (bedroom) socket, take the unfiltered xDSL signal up to the first extension socket where it is then connected to your new wiring which leads to the other bedroom, in which you propose to site the modem/router, etc.

As it is now getting late, the external air temperature is reading -1C and thoughts of a warm & sleepy place are invading my mind, I'll compose a proposed shopping list for you sometime tomorrow.  :sleep:

Title: Re: Wiring and adsl/telephone extension advice.
Post by: Ezzer on January 18, 2013, 04:29:56 PM
I would suggest doing an experiment by rigging up a power extention lead so you can try the router in the test socket in the NTE there by eliminating the extention wiring just for this test. Then  note what speed and an stats you get.

That way you have a base measure to which you can compare any other combination you try using the extention wiring.

Burakkucat has a good solution to try.
Title: Re: Wiring and adsl/telephone extension advice.
Post by: adam on January 18, 2013, 06:42:38 PM
I have a plan.  ;)

The first thing you can do is to go to the second extension socket (downstairs) and physically remove (cut out) the capacitor, resistor and over-voltage protection device. That will resolve the 'doubly terminated' situation that currently exists on you line.
Ok, although I will probably look to replace it with the correct type.

The main part of my plan involves fitting a SSFP to the NTE5/A so that a telephone (or telephones) can be used at the NTE5/A, the first extension (bedroom) socket or the second extension (downstairs) socket. Then, using a second pair in the cable running from the NTE5/A to the first extension (bedroom) socket, take the unfiltered xDSL signal up to the first extension socket where it is then connected to your new wiring which leads to the other bedroom, in which you propose to site the modem/router, etc.

As it is now getting late, the external air temperature is reading -1C and thoughts of a warm & sleepy place are invading my mind, I'll compose a proposed shopping list for you sometime tomorrow.  :sleep:

Cool, sounds good. I hope you didn't have any problems with the snow today :-)
You mention using my new wiring which is 2 pair based, however I'm still considering changing this to a pre made shielded 'adsl' type cable (RJ11 - RJ11) especially if has potential for improvement over 15M.
Title: Re: Wiring and adsl/telephone extension advice.
Post by: adam on January 18, 2013, 07:08:06 PM
I would suggest doing an experiment by rigging up a power extention lead so you can try the router in the test socket in the NTE there by eliminating the extention wiring just for this test. Then  note what speed and an stats you get.

That way you have a base measure to which you can compare any other combination you try using the extention wiring.

Burakkucat has a good solution to try.

I have stats noted for all 3 sockets, incl the test socket :-)  before I added my extension. They're not thorough, but a good guideline.
At the test socket, I run the power supply through the kitchen door. It just reaches, although it's a trip hazard and looks messy.

Luckily, I think the existing wiring must be fairly good because there is not massive differences between the sockets. In fact I've recently noticed that the time of day of the sync seems to have a greater influence in sync over which socket I choose. After 10pm seems to be good for some reason.

But to give you an indication, I tested at the test socket the other day and got 6732 down. The router is currently in the lounge on the 2nd extension and I've currently got 7084 down ??? However when I had my new extension installed the worst sync I got was something like 4700, so I knew something was wrong :o

Title: Re: Wiring and adsl/telephone extension advice.
Post by: Ezzer on January 18, 2013, 08:53:18 PM
Thats a good way of confirming the possibilities in the house as well as looking for potential issues.
Yes I can imagine it was messy getting the result from the test socket. You can see why BT engineers use a usb powered modem off the laptop. But it's well worth going to an hour or two of trouble to just to get a Fuller picture of whats happening.
Also as a reference in case anything changes in the future. if you were to retest in the test socket again and find a different result. Helps you avaoid chasing your tail.
Title: Re: Wiring and adsl/telephone extension advice.
Post by: burakkucat on January 18, 2013, 11:49:01 PM
Still chasing my tail due to the cold weather.  :-\

I wonder if you could possibly take a series of photographs, upload them to a suitable hosting site and post the link here? For the complete 'picture', I would like to see: (1) a general overview of the NTE5/A, with the lower front face-plate removed and the wiring connected thereto visible (2) a view of the first extension socket (bedroom) (3) a view of the second extension socket (downstairs) (4) a view of your new extension socket (other bedroom).

If the socket you have purchased to use at the new extension location (the other bedroom) will fit into the backing box at the existing second extension socket (downstairs), then just swap them over. That will resolve the 'doubly terminated' pair scenario.  :) 

I recommend you obtain the following:

An xDSL V1.0 SSFP (http://www.clarity.it/xcart/product.php?productid=16134&cat=262&page=1).
A pair of Long M3 screws (http://www.clarity.it/xcart/product.php?productid=16136&cat=262&page=1), if required.
An Openreach xDSL Extension Kit (http://www.clarity.it/xcart/product.php?productid=16139&cat=250&page=1).
A box of cable clips (http://www.clarity.it/xcart/product.php?productid=16151&cat=250&page=1), if required.
A pair of gel-crimps (http://www.amazon.co.uk/Way-Gel-Filled-Connector-Crimps-Packet/dp/B007FGYV3Y/ref=sr_1_9?ie=UTF8&qid=1358551626&sr=8-9).

At the NTE5/A, remove and disconnect the lower front face plate. Assuming the three-pair cable used is the green, blue and orange type, transfer the telephony extension pair (assumed to be blue) to the respective IDC2 & IDC5 of the new xDSL V1.0 SSFP. Assuming the green pair in that cable to be unused, connect them to IDCB & IDCA (green/white stripe & white/green stripe, respectively). Use a cable-tie to ensure that the insulation of the extension cable is attached to the fixing post of the SSFP. Don't plug it back into the NTE5/A until the rest of the wiring is completed.

From the first telephone extension socket (bedroom), run the new data cable (cut off the plug) to where the data socket will be located in the second bedroom. At the first telephone extension socket, connect the blue pair of the data extension cable to the green pair arriving from the SSFP. Blue/white stripe to green/white stripe and white/blue stripe to white/green stripe with a pair of gel-crimps. Neatly tuck the crimps and wires into the back of the box and refit the socket.

At the new data socket in the second bedroom, connect the blue/white stripe to IDC4 and the white/blue stripe to IDC5. (You should be using the middle two connectors of the eight.) Neatly tuck the wires back into the box and fit the socket.

To test, fit the xDSL V1.0 SSFP to the NTE5/A. With a classic, wired telephone plug it into the telephone socket on the SSFP. Call 170170 to ensure that socket is working. Take the phone to each of the other two telephone extension sockets and repeat the test, in turn. Hopefully they are all working correctly. Now connect your modem/router to the data extension socket in the second bedroom and watch its lights. Ensure that the correct lights are lit, signifying that it has established sync with the DSLAM in the exchange. If at all possible, access the statistics from the modem/router and note the Sync speed, the Attenuation and the target SNRM (for both DS and US).

---

For the proposed shopping list, above, I have selected the items from the Clarity on-line site. Obviously there are other sites you could use. The choice is yours.  ;)
Title: Re: Wiring and adsl/telephone extension advice.
Post by: adam on January 20, 2013, 08:12:22 PM
Still chasing my tail due to the cold weather.  :-\

I wonder if you could possibly take a series of photographs, upload them to a suitable hosting site and post the link here? For the complete 'picture', I would like to see: (1) a general overview of the NTE5/A, with the lower front face-plate removed and the wiring connected thereto visible (2) a view of the first extension socket (bedroom) (3) a view of the second extension socket (downstairs) (4) a view of your new extension socket (other bedroom).

Photos (https://www.dropbox.com/sh/shnqlajfi37hx9g/1EJAhGckg5).
I've removed the extension so unfortunately there are no photos of it. The 'last socket' in the lounge is 68mm and temporary for the moment. The photos should be in the order of the writing described.
Title: Re: Wiring and adsl/telephone extension advice.
Post by: adam on January 20, 2013, 09:52:36 PM

If the socket you have purchased to use at the new extension location (the other bedroom) will fit into the backing box at the existing second extension socket (downstairs), then just swap them over. That will resolve the 'doubly terminated' pair scenario.  :) 

I recommend you obtain the following:

An xDSL V1.0 SSFP (http://www.clarity.it/xcart/product.php?productid=16134&cat=262&page=1).
A pair of Long M3 screws (http://www.clarity.it/xcart/product.php?productid=16136&cat=262&page=1), if required.
An Openreach xDSL Extension Kit (http://www.clarity.it/xcart/product.php?productid=16139&cat=250&page=1).
A box of cable clips (http://www.clarity.it/xcart/product.php?productid=16151&cat=250&page=1), if required.
A pair of gel-crimps (http://www.amazon.co.uk/Way-Gel-Filled-Connector-Crimps-Packet/dp/B007FGYV3Y/ref=sr_1_9?ie=UTF8&qid=1358551626&sr=8-9).

At the NTE5/A, remove and disconnect the lower front face plate. Assuming the three-pair cable used is the green, blue and orange type, transfer the telephony extension pair (assumed to be blue) to the respective IDC2 & IDC5 of the new xDSL V1.0 SSFP. Assuming the green pair in that cable to be unused, connect them to IDCB & IDCA (green/white stripe & white/green stripe, respectively). Use a cable-tie to ensure that the insulation of the extension cable is attached to the fixing post of the SSFP. Don't plug it back into the NTE5/A until the rest of the wiring is completed.

From the first telephone extension socket (bedroom), run the new data cable (cut off the plug) to where the data socket will be located in the second bedroom. At the first telephone extension socket, connect the blue pair of the data extension cable to the green pair arriving from the SSFP. Blue/white stripe to green/white stripe and white/blue stripe to white/green stripe with a pair of gel-crimps. Neatly tuck the crimps and wires into the back of the box and refit the socket.

At the new data socket in the second bedroom, connect the blue/white stripe to IDC4 and the white/blue stripe to IDC5. (You should be using the middle two connectors of the eight.) Neatly tuck the wires back into the box and fit the socket.

To test, fit the xDSL V1.0 SSFP to the NTE5/A. With a classic, wired telephone plug it into the telephone socket on the SSFP. Call 170170 to ensure that socket is working. Take the phone to each of the other two telephone extension sockets and repeat the test, in turn. Hopefully they are all working correctly. Now connect your modem/router to the data extension socket in the second bedroom and watch its lights. Ensure that the correct lights are lit, signifying that it has established sync with the DSLAM in the exchange. If at all possible, access the statistics from the modem/router and note the Sync speed, the Attenuation and the target SNRM (for both DS and US).

---

For the proposed shopping list, above, I have selected the items from the Clarity on-line site. Obviously there are other sites you could use. The choice is yours.  ;)

Hi Burakkucat

Thanks for taking the time to detail the wiring modifications and for putting together the proposed shopping list. I'm going to follow your plan, but I just haven't decided if I'll use the exact parts you've listed yet. The slight revision I'm considering is replacing the 1st extension socket with a dual type phone & xDSL socket (not a filtered one, as this will be done at the NTE5 as you propose). I may then use a pre manufactured high quality xDSL cable which will run direct to the router without any extra socket in the 2nd bedroom.

I forgot to mention previously that I'd prefer the xDSL extension to be connected via a socket in the bedroom, rather than hard-wired in the existing box so as to stop the cable xDSL cable emerging from behind the socket.

Title: Re: Wiring and adsl/telephone extension advice.
Post by: burakkucat on January 21, 2013, 12:19:34 AM
Photos (https://www.dropbox.com/sh/shnqlajfi37hx9g/1EJAhGckg5).
I've removed the extension so unfortunately there are no photos of it. The 'last socket' in the lounge is 68mm and temporary for the moment. The photos should be in the order of the writing described.

Thank you for taking the time to produce those photographs. They are very clear and they make everything quite obvious. I do not need to ask any subsidiary questions.  :)

Looking at number 2, the rear of the lower faceplate at the NTE5/A, we will have to give the original installing 'wireman' a black mark for fitting the cable-tie around the bundle of wires rather than the outer sheath of the cable!

In numbers 7, 8 & 9 we see that your most recent extension socket (that was in bedroom 2) is replacing the incorrect master socket (number 10) in the lounge.

Quote
The slight revision I'm considering is replacing the 1st extension socket with a dual type phone & xDSL socket (not a filtered one, as this will be done at the NTE5 as you propose).

Yes, that makes perfect sense. Will you be considering fitting the dual socket (bedroom) with an RJ11 or an RJ45 socket? If you go for a modular construction, you could have either. If you choose a complete fitting, most that I have seen (if not all) are RJ45.

Quote
I may then use a pre manufactured high quality xDSL cable which will run direct to the router without any extra socket in the 2nd bedroom.

I forgot to mention previously that I'd prefer the xDSL extension to be connected via a socket in the bedroom, rather than hard-wired in the existing box so as to stop the cable xDSL cable emerging from behind the socket.

Again, that all make sense -- having seen the photographs.

Two quick comments --

(1) In the bedroom, you will need to identify which of those two white cables is the feed from the NTE5/A. The simplest way to do so is to disconnect the 'top' pair of wires in the IDCs. Then refit the lower front faceplate at the NTE5/A and check if a telephone operates in the bedroom. If yes, the feed is still connected. If no, the feed is the one disconnected. Mark the cables appropriately.

(2) The current bedroom socket, due to be replaced with a new double outlet, can then be redeployed in the lounge.
Title: Re: Wiring and adsl/telephone extension advice.
Post by: adam on March 20, 2013, 10:23:56 PM
Hello again.

Well it took a while (not literally all that time) but it's done now. To summarise:


It's difficult to verify how good this is all working, as even my sync speeds fluctuate at the master socket. Also as I tend to test in the evening, I find my sync speeds seem to improve later into the evening (from about 9:30pm onwards) which doesn't help troubleshooting.

Anyway here is a very brief sample of this evenings sync speeds (down) from around 9pm - 10pm . Line attenuation, and sync up doesn't change much so I don't always bother to note this #lazy. The following is fairly typical for any given evening.

6835 - Master
6576 - Office
6541 - Office (turned some equipment off)
6783 - Bedroom/dual socket (15M extension removed, used a short xDSL cable)
6584 - Office

At this point I was starting to think the 15m xDSL extension could be picking up interference, and then a few minutes later I resync and get:
 
6721 - Office

I'm not sure if I should just accept this is how it is, or to try anything else. Are these fluctuations typical on connections a fair distance from the exchange:

My current stats are

Modem DSL(Sync)uptime   0:41:25
ADSL Mode      ADSL2+
Interleaving      On
DSL Line Speed       
up         824 kbps
down         6721 kbps
Line Attenuation       
up         28.1
down         53.0
SN Margin       
up         8.8
down         7.7
            
Total Errors Seconds   30 

Title: Re: Wiring and adsl/telephone extension advice.
Post by: burakkucat on March 22, 2013, 12:46:40 AM
 :hmm:  Hmm . . . I had to go back to the beginning of this thread to refresh my memory.

In terms of your wiring, everything reads as if it is the best that it can be for your desired situation. However I am a little suspicious of item (3). Are you sure that it is twisted-pair and of sufficient quality . . . Just as long as it is not 'telephone extension' cable!  :no:

As for the performance of the line, perhaps you would be willing to leave RouterStats (http://vwlowen.co.uk/internet/files.htm) running for a few days (or a week) so that some statistics can be harvested and then analysed?  :-\
Title: Re: Wiring and adsl/telephone extension advice.
Post by: sheddyian on March 22, 2013, 12:57:33 AM

In terms of your wiring, everything reads as if it is the best that it can be for your desired situation. However I am a little suspicious of item (3). Are you sure that it is twisted-pair and of sufficient quality . . . Just as long as it is not 'telephone extension' cable!  :no:


I have what I believe to be a shorter version of that cable (1m), and it appears to be made to a high standard - shielded twisted pair, with two pairs connected to 4 pins on the RJ11, and the outer screen connected to a metal bodied RJ11 plug at each end. 

So, assuming we're talking about the same ADSL Nation RJ11 cable, it's definitely not a telephone extension cable!

however

My Dlink DSl-2780 modem, as supplied by TalkTalk gives lower line attenuation and (slightly) higher synch speeds when I use a simple flat 2 core unshielded RJ11 cable.  I get consistently poorer results using the ADSL Nation cable (albeit only slightly poorer), even if I go to the trouble of grounding the RJ11 metal plug.

Just my observation, and could be a quirk on my setup.

I'd still assume that the ADSL Nation cable is superior to a long flat telephone extension cable though. 

Ian
Title: Re: Wiring and adsl/telephone extension advice.
Post by: burakkucat on March 22, 2013, 02:58:04 AM
Ah, ha! Thanks for the pointer, Ian.  :)

If the cable in question is this (http://www.adslnation.com/phpapps/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=118) or a closely related cousin thereof, then my suspicion will be quashed.

Regarding the performance of Adam's line, we really need to see some graphical statistics harvested over a period of days and to know to what value the target SNRM is set.
Title: Re: Wiring and adsl/telephone extension advice.
Post by: adam on March 22, 2013, 11:38:06 PM
Evening Gents

The cable is indeed the 15m version of the one described by Ian. I had considered earthing, but didn't know which end to earth (or both) and what would be a suitable earth. Interesting I'm also a Talktalk customer, and I have the DSL-2780 modem  :ouch:

I believe I'm on the 9db profile, having previously requested the 6db profile. Due to a lot of 'testing' (aka resyncs) + high error seconds it seems DLM reset me back to 9db :( Annoyingly my sync was higher and the connection seemingly stable. It's something I will retry once I've finished messing around  ::)

Regarding line stats, I've not managed to get routerstats (full version) working with my modem, however routerstats lite does work, but like other people here (http://forum.kitz.co.uk/index.php/topic,11373.msg220080.html#msg220080) and here (http://forum.kitz.co.uk/index.php/topic,12070.msg228696.html#msg228696) it seems to crash the modem after several hours.

I suspect the constant polling is leaking memory to the point the web gui crashes. I have some older modems, maybe I can dig those out, but it's not ideal.

Title: Re: Wiring and adsl/telephone extension advice.
Post by: sheddyian on March 22, 2013, 11:52:29 PM
Hi Adam,

In the DSL-2780's favour, my experience has been that it gives a faster synch than a few other modems I've tried, and it hangs onto a line longer when there's interference.  I've seen it ride out radio interference that was causing a different modem to repeatedly drop the line.

My main gripe with it is the wireless, which seems slow to establish a connection, and can be very stuttery if streaming to my mobile phone.

I'm now using a separate old modem just for the wireless, with the DSL-2780 actually doing the modem stuff, and this bodge works well for me.

I earthed the screen of the ADSL Nation cable by connecting it to an electrical earthing spike I'd pushed into the ground nearby outside.  But I didn't notice any difference.

I wouldn't get too hung up about my comparison of the cables, although the different results were repeatable, they weren't significant, more of a curiosity.  The fact that you've got a 15 metre twisted pair connection instead of a 15 metre flat telephone extension cable must surely be a Good Thing.

And, yes, I've had the web interface hanging problem when using RouterStats lite with the DSL-2780!

Ian



Title: Re: Wiring and adsl/telephone extension advice.
Post by: burakkucat on March 23, 2013, 12:13:07 AM
Hello, Adam. So I see that you also have TT as your CP.

What you need to do is to request (via the TT Members' Forum) that the DLM is turned off for your connection. Then with a target SNRM of 6 dB, you can test and experiment as much as you desire. I have lost count of the number of fellow Kitizens who have done exactly that.  ;)

The only modem/router that I ever received from TT is a Huawei SmartAX MT882. That was back in June 2007. It has long been retired to the further reaches of my grotto!

My current modem/router of choice is a Huawei HG622 because it uses the Broadcom BCM6368 SOC and, thus, all the typical Broadcom goodies are available via the telnet interface. Although I have a target SNRM set at 6 dB, I have tweaked the DS value downwards by 2 dB to gain an extra ~1 Mbps in DS sync speed.  :)
Title: Re: Wiring and adsl/telephone extension advice.
Post by: adam on March 28, 2013, 11:15:19 PM
Hello, Adam. So I see that you also have TT as your CP.
Yeah, cheap and overall not that bad :-)
Quote
What you need to do is to request (via the TT Members' Forum) that the DLM is turned off for your connection. Then with a target SNRM of 6 dB, you can test and experiment as much as you desire. I have lost count of the number of fellow Kitizens who have done exactly that.  ;)
I've requested again and asked for DLM to be turned off this time. I've read some posts where they say they can't guarantee it wont be turned back on by 'networks'
Quote
The only modem/router that I ever received from TT is a Huawei SmartAX MT882. That was back in June 2007. It has long been retired to the further reaches of my grotto!

My current modem/router of choice is a Huawei HG622 because it uses the Broadcom BCM6368 SOC and, thus, all the typical Broadcom goodies are available via the telnet interface. Although I have a target SNRM set at 6 dB, I have tweaked the DS value downwards by 2 dB to gain an extra ~1 Mbps in DS sync speed.  :)

I've dug out some old routers, a linksys WAG354G and a Thompson TG585v7 the latter of which I see there are some nice tools, but the DS sync was noticeable reduced on both  :(

I've got to hand it to the DSL-2780, it syncs well.

So regarding the stats, I've spent much time tinkering around to find out how to get the stats using telnet, as routerstats crashes the 2780. Thanks to some nuggets of info here (http://forum.kitz.co.uk/index.php/topic,11142.30.html) and some suggestions from asbokid, I now have a script running on the router that I've written. It's capturing the DS SNR & sync rate to a log on a memory card using the 2780's usb port. I don't need to leave the computer on which is a result!

I'll leave it logging for a few more days, than attach the results here. I copied the log formatting style from routerstats. What would be a good way to view it?
Title: Re: Wiring and adsl/telephone extension advice.
Post by: burakkucat on March 29, 2013, 02:27:46 AM
I've got to hand it to the DSL-2780, it syncs well.

So regarding the stats, I've spent much time tinkering around to find out how to get the stats using telnet, as routerstats crashes the 2780. Thanks to some nuggets of info here (http://forum.kitz.co.uk/index.php/topic,11142.30.html) and some suggestions from asbokid, I now have a script running on the router that I've written. It's capturing the DS SNR & sync rate to a log on a memory card using the 2780's usb port. I don't need to leave the computer on which is a result!

Methinks someone has had some fun.  ;)

If I have the urge to be Eagle-obsessive about my line statistics, I power up a Raspberry Pi which is attached to my LAN. The R-Pi then harvests the statistics from the Huawei HG622 and writes them to a log file (which is stored on a USB memory stick). The log file is then used as the input for graphing utilities, etc.

As the HG622 has a USB port, I guess that there is a project waiting to be developed . . . a total re-write of the firmware so that it also auto-harvests the line statistics and stores them to a USB memory stick plugged into the USB port.

Quote
I'll leave it logging for a few more days, than attach the results here. I copied the log formatting style from routerstats. What would be a good way to view it?

I am not familiar with the log format of Routerstats . . . If textual, just copy and paste between quote tags. If graphical, ensure that the images are appropriately sized and attach them to your post.

When you are ready to share some results, I'm sure that either Eric or Kitz will be willing to advise on the best way of doing so.
Title: Re: Wiring and adsl/telephone extension advice.
Post by: Bald_Eagle1 on March 29, 2013, 07:33:56 AM

If I have the urge to be Eagle-obsessive about my line statistics


I have no idea how you get that impression  :lol:
Title: Re: Wiring and adsl/telephone extension advice.
Post by: burakkucat on March 29, 2013, 05:34:54 PM

If I have the urge to be Eagle-obsessive about my line statistics


I have no idea how you get that impression  :lol:

From the pecks at (and, thus, fur-loss from) my tail.  :(