Kitz Forum

Broadband Related => ISPs => Topic started by: bigbossa on January 15, 2013, 09:39:27 AM

Title: Which ISP
Post by: bigbossa on January 15, 2013, 09:39:27 AM
Hi all
looking for some advice on choosing an ISP please.
Currently with Titan adsl and Im getting around 1.9 mb speed happy with the service but want cost cut . Currently 22 a month , I have to add I'm approx 3 miles from the exchange.
Just discovered through Sam Knows that the exchange has Talk Talk LLU and Sky/easynet LLU . should I consider either of these ? whats the deal with contention with these ISP's . Previously was with Virgin and come 4 oclock and everything would grind to an unbearable crawl.
Spoke to Plusnet rep via chat and they said this would be inevitable, could Plusnet be a choice? . I dont have this problem with Titan.
Any advice is much appreciated

Exchange is Pulborough west sussex

Downstream Upstream

SNR Margin:12.5 16.0 db

Line Attenuation:63.5 31.5 db

Data Rate:2656 448 kbps

Max Rate:2752 924 kbps

CRC:78 0
Title: Re: Which ISP
Post by: broadstairs on January 15, 2013, 10:35:17 AM
Can't comment on what speeds etc you would get from TalkTalk but can say that I've been with them for a number of years and have no issues, must say that the best way to resolve issues if/when they do arise is to use their support forum and not phone support. I know they don't have the best press but personally I cannot complain.

Stuart
Title: Re: Which ISP
Post by: kitz on January 15, 2013, 10:59:00 AM
Both Sky and TT tend to use Full MPF if possible, and by bundling in your phone you can make some savings compared to the BT 'blue' bill.

Plusnet also do some good deals.  If you package in your phone, they use WLR - which means that you pay the bill to PN, but BT still 'own' the number.   

Re the broadband, skys unlimited is meant to be just that and Ive not heard anything to the contrary.  Obviously Plusnet do traffic shaping but they are very upfront about what they shape and most of their users seem happy with they way they do it.   Ive used them in the past and found I could live with how they do it.

CS wise.  Both TT & Sky arent renown for the best, but in fairness TT's member support forum does seem to be the best way to do anything and they dont seem to have quite the horror stories they were known for many years ago.
Title: Re: Which ISP
Post by: sheddyian on January 15, 2013, 11:40:29 AM
I'm on a TalkTalk LLU line, and can't say I notice much (if any) of a slow down at peak periods.

There is traffic shaping though.  Which, perhaps is the reason I don't notice any slow down at peak periods!  :D

Ian
Title: Re: Which ISP
Post by: bigbossa on January 15, 2013, 02:20:07 PM
thanks for the replies guys , just worried as the speed I get (approx1.9mb) would slow to a crawl if there was contention at peak times, out of the two LLU's Sky or Talk Talk which would be a better choice . the phone side I know Sky only give free weekend calls . but really my main requirement is a decent broadband speed and a fair price
Title: Re: Which ISP
Post by: jid on January 15, 2013, 03:09:48 PM
I'll also add my opinions that i've had no problems with TalkTalk either. But I would agree with the others who have posted that any problems are best put to the Support Forums!

The advantage of LLU for a line like yours compared to a BT managed product is flexibility as the line profiles can be adjusted manually and quickly, so you can get the best from your line.

TalkTalk have a good backhaul, and I've never noticed contention, and i'm on a large and busy exchange. I can't speak personally regarding Sky, but I have some friends who say they're great, and some that can't wait to leave.
Title: Re: Which ISP
Post by: renluop on January 15, 2013, 08:21:13 PM
Been with Plusnet for years and have never been dissatisfied. Their new Unlimited is worth a look!
Title: Re: Which ISP
Post by: burakkucat on January 16, 2013, 12:33:36 AM
Quote
SNR Margin:12.5 16.0 db

Line Attenuation:63.5 31.5 db

Looking at the lines quoted above. The latter, the attenuation, is to be expected when considering your distance from the exchange. The former, the target SNRM looks high. Ideally, we would like to know the values as soon as the modem/router has establish sync with the DSLAM and the PPPoA session has been established. It could be that the target SNRM has been set that high due to stability problems with the line . . . the net result being a drop in sync (and, thus, throughput) speed.

Finally, as to 'Which ISP?', I have been with TT for over five & a half years (fully LLU'd) and like Stuart, jid & Ian I have had absolutely no problems.
Title: Re: Which ISP
Post by: bigbossa on January 16, 2013, 09:30:30 AM
Quote
SNR Margin:12.5 16.0 db

Line Attenuation:63.5 31.5 db

Looking at the lines quoted above. The latter, the attenuation, is to be expected when considering your distance from the exchange. The former, the target SNRM looks high. Ideally, we would like to know the values as soon as the modem/router has establish sync with the DSLAM and the PPPoA session has been established. It could be that the target SNRM has been set that high due to stability problems with the line . . . the net result being a drop in sync (and, thus, throughput) speed.

Finally, as to 'Which ISP?', I have been with TT for over five & a half years (fully LLU'd) and like Stuart, jid & Ian I have had absolutely no problems.

Hi thanks for your reply
I normally keep my router on all the time , when you say "The former, the target SNRM looks high. Ideally, we would like to know the values as soon as the modem/router has establish sync with the DSLAM and the PPPoA session has been established " how would I do that ?
Title: Re: Which ISP
Post by: roseway on January 16, 2013, 10:10:11 AM
Quote
how would I do that ?

You would need to force a re-sync or re-boot the router. Then check the stats immediately after the connection has been re-established. It would probably be best to do this during the hours of daylight.
Title: Re: Which ISP
Post by: bigbossa on January 16, 2013, 11:01:04 AM
Quote
how would I do that ?

You would need to force a re-sync or re-boot the router. Then check the stats immediately after the connection has been re-established. It would probably be best to do this during the hours of daylight.

Hi roseway just rebooted and her are the stats
Title: Re: Which ISP
Post by: roseway on January 16, 2013, 11:41:45 AM
As b*cat surmised, your target SNR margin appears to be 12 dB, which may be the result of instability at some time. If this instability is no longer present, your target SNR margin could in principle be reduced to give you increased speed.

If you're intending to move to an LLU ISP such as TT or Sky, then this isn't worth doing anything about at this stage. The LLU ISP will have their own system for managing the target SNR margin. I don't know about Sky, but TT start you off at a target SNR margin of 12 dB, so if you move to them you'll very probably see a very similar connection speed initially, but with the possibility to increase it later.
Title: Re: Which ISP
Post by: bigbossa on January 16, 2013, 12:28:47 PM
Thanks roseway . we have had endless problems with all the ISPs we have been with and I think its all due to a combination of distance to the exchange and the terrible state of the line. I trained with a BT engineer who was seconded to this area for a couple of days he told me the line was in a very bad way and practically victorian. Our current provider Titan have been very good and have even threatened BT with Ofcom when they failed to do anything about faults that kept arising. That said I cant warrant the cost anymore, TT seem to be offering  the essentials deal with the line rental that will save us a huge amount , right now we pay BT for the phone and then Titan 22 so its alot  :( . Have to make decision soon , my main worry was the slowing at peak times as I dont expect any faster speeds although it would be a bonus.
Title: Re: Which ISP
Post by: burakkucat on January 16, 2013, 06:49:13 PM
Thank you for posting that latest information. I agree with everything that Eric has subsequently typed with regards to your current service and target SNRM.

It seems that your only concern with transferring your service to TalkTalk is the possibility of "slowing at peak times". That is something I have never experienced in over five & a half years.  :)
Title: Re: Which ISP
Post by: jid on January 16, 2013, 07:53:24 PM
It seems that your only concern with transferring your service to TalkTalk is the possibility of "slowing at peak times". That is something I have never experienced in over five & a half years.  :)

Same, no issues here either :)
Title: Re: Which ISP
Post by: bigbossa on January 16, 2013, 10:44:43 PM
Thanks very much for all the input guys very much appreciated . So I guess the consensus is to choose Talk Talk . One last question ,what happens if I change ISPs later can I take my telephone number to the next carrier?
Title: Re: Which ISP
Post by: burakkucat on January 16, 2013, 10:56:07 PM
You can but it is a somewhat awkward process.  :-X

What you would have to do is to have a 'Return to Donor' performed for your telephone service. That means it would have to be reverted back to a BT Wholesale service providing retailer; BT Retail is just one of a number of such retailers.

Title: Re: Which ISP
Post by: bigbossa on February 04, 2013, 09:19:38 AM
signed upto TalkTalk essentials should go live on the 6th ....let you know .
Title: Re: Which ISP
Post by: roseway on February 04, 2013, 09:55:16 AM
signed upto TalkTalk essentials should go live on the 6th ....let you know .

Hopefully the present TT network problem will be fixed by then. :fingers:
Title: Re: Which ISP
Post by: bigbossa on February 04, 2013, 07:12:00 PM
signed upto TalkTalk essentials should go live on the 6th ....let you know .

Hopefully the present TT network problem will be fixed by then. :fingers:

OMG ??? what network problem?  blimey mate I hope so
Title: Re: Which ISP
Post by: roseway on February 04, 2013, 07:18:04 PM
There was a network problem over the weekend affecting large numbers of people in the south-east and some other areas, which caused intermittent unresponsiveness with some sites. It was fixed this morning.
Title: Re: Which ISP
Post by: bigbossa on February 08, 2013, 11:33:19 AM
Hi all
Been live with TalkTalk for the second day now speed is up to around 2.5 mb which is good , page load times are much better. Dunno if there is a training period .

Upstream line rate (kbit/s)   702
Downstream line rate (kbit/s)   2906
Line standard    ADSL2
Channel type
   Interleaved
Upstream SNR (dB)      11.3
Downstream SNR (dB)      12
Upstream line attenuation (dB)    34
Downstream line attenuation (dB)    57
Upstream output power (dBmV)    12.7
Downstream output power (dBmV)    16.9
Upstream CRC    196608
Downstream CRC    39
Upstream FEC    786432
Downstream FEC    7216
Title: Re: Which ISP
Post by: roseway on February 08, 2013, 11:44:43 AM
There isn't a training period as such, but TT do operate their own DLM process. When your connection is first set up, the target SNR margin is 12 dB, and if this proves to be adequately stable, DLM will reduce the target margin to increase the speed. If you join the members' forum, you can speed up this process by requesting a manual profile change.
Title: Re: Which ISP
Post by: bigbossa on February 08, 2013, 12:22:22 PM
There isn't a training period as such, but TT do operate their own DLM process. When your connection is first set up, the target SNR margin is 12 dB, and if this proves to be adequately stable, DLM will reduce the target margin to increase the speed. If you join the members' forum, you can speed up this process by requesting a manual profile change.

Hi roseway
thanks mate will go over there and ask  ;)