Kitz Forum
Broadband Related => FTTC and FTTP Issues => Topic started by: iwasnotoffside on November 09, 2012, 10:43:43 AM
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Hi, I get download speeds of about 5.5mbs and I am a light home user browsing (about 10gb per month), streaming music and tv catch-ups from the likes of bbc iplayer. So, what benifit is there in signing up for fibre as it will cost me an extra £12 per month? Thanks.
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That's got to be the hardest question on planet Earth, to answer. If you are happy with what you have (speedwise) at the moment, then why change ?? I also don't know your financial circumstances, so £10 a month to you may be a kings ransom ??
I don't want to sound flippant here, just trying to point out that only you know what you want out of a Broadband product, and what you are willing to pay for that product !.
FWIW, if you can stream without buffering, then stay as you are. :)
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It's whether you can resist the temptation of all those "go faster than the Jones'/ flat 6/ Bolt" TV ads. With a certain well-known ISP, on the day, you will get lightning bolts from the sky and prancing unicorns in your back yard, and an Openreach engineer poking about with your wiring. With the rollout of 'YouView' set top boxes, there will be more 'catch-up' TV with more bandwidth to be streamed. But as already said, if YOU don't need it yet, then no need to upgrade.
If you do upgrade, check that you have the latest wireless standard (802.11n) on your computer, although a hard-wired connection is recommended. Consider that you may want a new computer at extra cost to benefit. Check the other forums on here as there are people far better qualified (than I) to advise...
If you are changing provider at the same time, then you may get 6 months free, as there are lots of incentive packages available!
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I shall now stick my paw in and stir the water somewhat.
I could have had an Openreach NGA GEA based VDSL2 ('fibre') service installed over a year ago but I did not because:
(1) I am quite content with the bandwidth that I can achieve with my ADSL2 connection. :)
(2) I do not need an Openreach technician to 'fiddle-faddle' with my wiring in The Cattery. :no: I shall wait for the 'wires only' / 'self install' to become the norm. ;)
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It appears that Openreach do not always have the time or inclination to quote 'fiddle-faddle' very much, as when my 30-year plus, dropwire corroded, they did not want to enter my loft space and thus put an external gel joint close to the barge-board. An old bakelite block term remains in my loft with the remainder of the dropwire. It does make me wonder if that should be changed out?
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It does make me wonder if that should be changed out?
In theory, to a perfectionist, yes. :D
If you can access the end of the new drop-cable, have access to the appropriate methods of jointing thereof and a contiguous length of CW1308 cable, then it is a little job for one afternoon -- when nothing else takes your fancy. :angel:
As a bonus, you may notice an improvement in your broadband service . . .
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It appears that Openreach do not always have the time or inclination to quote 'fiddle-faddle' very much, as when my 30-year plus, dropwire corroded, they did not want to enter my loft space and thus put an external gel joint close to the barge-board. An old bakelite block term remains in my loft with the remainder of the dropwire. It does make me wonder if that should be changed out?
It isn't a case of 'not wanting to', we aren't allowed to. It falls under their H&S remit under 'confined spaces'. No doubt a major debate will thus ensue regarding this, but at the end of the day, them's the rules.
Any engineer caught doing otherwise, or god forbid, had an accident whilst carrying out unsafe working practices, would most likely be tin-tacked before you could say "Why wont you go in my loft ?". That's a livelihood, and possible employer contributed pension payments lost (ie- the 2/3 BT pay in) for a foolhardy error of judgement.
I've said it on here a million times before, just because it doesn't appear to the average layman, that what we are doing makes any sense, doesn't mean we've all been labotomised. There is 99% of the time a very good reason behind everything we do.
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@ BS,
Hear hear !!
That said, I have known a few cases where some judicious liaison between said BT employees and the end users have resulted in excellent engineering solutions as well !
Kind regards,
Walter
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Thank you Walter.
I do agree with you as well. Sometimes local on-site EU knowledge, coupled with other 'unknowns' (ie- possible future building modifications in the immediate area, etc), all play a part in resolving situations amicably.
As always, there is the odd occasion where obstination on the EU's part, H&S rulings, Ofcom rules and so on, can inhibit the job progression. EU's are all individuals, and what may appease one, may inflame another. It's a tough job, but someone's gotta do it !! It's ok to cry folks, it's the career I chose. :lol:
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Just realised we've wandered OT here. Apologies to the OP. :)
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Yes bit of wondering but thank you for all your comments.
I think I'm going to stick with AdSL for a bit longer as it does meet my current needs and then maybe in 12 months time give it another think.
Might sign up for Napster next....
Thanks :)
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I think I'm going to stick with AdSL for a bit longer as it does meet my current needs and then maybe in 12 months time give it another think.
Yes, that is exactly how I am 'playing it'. (Whilst waiting for self-install to become available. ;) )
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@ BS
May I plead forgiveness for even daring to mention such confirmed spaces :blush:
In fairness, the engineer did explain that it was verboten to enter said spaces and he qualified his solution of jointing the dropwire at the gable, by the test results, which indicated that the break/resistance problem was between the DP (pole) and the premises, rather than inside the loft.
I think I have 7 out of my 9 lives left, so I could still wonder what might have happened if the break had been in the loft. Would I still have a phone service? ::) ;D
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Im also unsure what to do, FTTC came here a few weeks ago.
The geekiness in me wants it.. but just right now I dont know if I can justify the additional cost. Im also concerned about the wiring because I dont have any power sockets in the hall where my NTE5 is. Ideally I'd want the modem in my PC room (upstairs) and not sure how an engineer would act on this since the copper pair is UG and comes straight up and then through the hall wall at the side of the house.
My existing 21 Mb down and 2.6 up meets most my existing requirements quite nicely. The vast majority of my bandwidth is streaming which works fine. The additional upstream sure would come in handy when working on this site though.
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Ha ha ..... as a fully paid-up member of the under-valued telecoms engineer, I do feel I have to point out these little known facts from time-to-time. Just because we work for BT does not a) mean we are your slave, and b) allow you to talk to us like something you've trodden in.
Obviously not you, smucat, I mean as in the 'royal' you !! If we say we can't climb a pole because it's been classified as a 'D-Pole' (Dangerous), please don't then tell all and sundry that we couldn't be arsed to climb it.
When we state our policy is to surface mount internal wiring, don't go off on one at us ..... those are the rules.
If you see us parked up in the van, don't take offence when we can't just drop everything to nip round to your house because you phone isn't working. We need a specific job to work to.
There's countless occasions I could quote personally, regarding scenario's similar to the above, and more. As could most OR guys and gals. One such occasion was years ago, when I visited a premises on an 'Installation Task' at a large (posh) residential premises. After introductions, I asked where the socket was to be fitted ??, "Dont you know" ?? was the reply !! Now I've worked at BT for 25yrs, but never had the pleasure of completing 'The Kreskin Module'.
Once the lady of the manor had worked out it was her decision as to where the socket was going, she proceeded to tell me that no wires should be on show. I explained that there would be an overhead wire from the pole to the house, and that I could run it right around the perimeter to the room the socket was required in. Not a chance she told me. I said I could run it internally, and proceeded to work out the course of the cable 'run', explaining as I was going.
She then decided to lose it with me, telling me I was no good at my job and to get out of her house. I must admit, I wasn't expecting that, but nonetheless, left her house asap. I don't know if she thought we had magic sockets, or what ??
The laboured point I'm making is, as with anybody you talk to, be nice and listen to what is being advised. We're not just saying it for the sake of it, there's a reason.
Back off my soap-box, and to answer your question smucat, we would have just wired from outside to a convenient point in which to enetr the house and 'pick up' the internal wiring. Yes, you would definitely have been left with a phone service. ;D
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Im also unsure what to do, FTTC came here a few weeks ago.
The geekiness in me wants it.. but just right now I dont know if I can justify the additional cost. Im also concerned about the wiring because I dont have any power sockets in the hall where my NTE5 is. Ideally I'd want the modem in my PC room (upstairs) and not sure how an engineer would act on this since the copper pair is UG and comes straight up and then through the hall wall at the side of the house.
My existing 21 Mb down and 2.6 up meets most my existing requirements quite nicely. The vast majority of my bandwidth is streaming which works fine. The additional upstream sure would come in handy when working on this site though.
Where is the Hub now, Kitz ?? It's obviously not at the NTE position, and if it's in your PC room now, there must be a metallic path facility going up there ??
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@ Kitz
Geekiness will out 8)
You have to experience and "live the BT values" at first paw, in order to fully empathise with your fellow Kitizens :-\
Personally, I think the Openreach install would be preferable to waiting until a self-install solution is available (with due respect to B*cat). And the Kudos of being an early adopter is too much temptation :angel:
It would, of course be useful to hear of the 'best case' solutions...
Disclaimer: Other 'values' are available.
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Back off my soap-box, and to answer your question smucat, we would have just wired from outside to a convenient point in which to enetr the house and 'pick up' the internal wiring. Yes, you would definitely have been left with a phone service. ;D
I never really doubted that, but sometimes I do enjoy playing devil's advocate >:D to see what the response would be. I don't know the H & S rules and I was genuinely a little surprised that lofts are so classified when you guys are still made to climb poles. I guess the poles are 'controlled known conditions' whereas Joe Public's loft is an unknown, unquantifiable risk.
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Pretty much spot-on smucat. ;)
TBH, common-sense and a local risk assessment, should ensure the best engineering method is adopted !! If the attic/loft isn't boarded out, and has low ambient lighting, then only a fool would attempt to crawl through it. Vice-versa, and there wouldn't be a problem. :)
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Just an indication of potential hazards, which make it BT's policy not to enter unboarded loft spaces. Apologies for going on, just trying to emphasise our guidance documents. :)
Falls from loft
Moving objects in loft to gain safe access
COSHH - Asbestos, biological hazards, vermin, insects, birds etc.
Confined Space - Asphyxiation
Electric Shock - Contact with faulty equipment / cables
Defective Building Structure
Collisions in loft - head injuries, poor lighting
Fire - electrical fires, flammable materials in loft
Temperature - Extremes of temperature
Loft Atmosphere - Airborne dust and fibre particles
Lighting - poor lighting levels
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Im also concerned about the wiring because I dont have any power sockets in the hall where my NTE5 is. Ideally I'd want the modem in my PC room (upstairs) and not sure how an engineer would act on this since the copper pair is UG and comes straight up and then through the hall wall at the side of the house.
Very similiar situation for me in that my NTE5 is in the hallwall far away from any electrical sockets. It is, however, less than a metre away from the tiny cupboard that stores gas and electricity meters along with the fusebox for the premises.
When I eventually order fibre, I will try and see if I can just run an electrical extension on the day of the install and tell the engineer that I will have an electrician round later to do something more permanent with the supply.
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in my case it was a clearcut choice.
I have a very bad E-side cable which wreacked havoc on adsl even when it had very high noise margins set. Also to me the 5-6mbit sync I could obtain on adsl would be a bit too limiting eg. hd content.
I was on virgin media for a while which done away with the adsl issues but the problem with virgin media cable si the extreme overselling they do and the affects of their congestion can be worse than a poor adsl line.
So in came vdsl2, whilst I am somehat annoyed I have lost over 30% of my attainable speed in 2 weeks the resulting 71mbit down 20mbit up which is very stable so far is currently far superior to both previous solutions. I do suspect tho I will end up lower than my estimated speed.
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Going back onto the subject of self-install, its really not all its cracked up to be in my experience.
When I moved to Be I was left without a phone line for several days as due to it being self-install, nobody checks the line works at the customers premises after doing the jumpering at the exchange. I was told the problem was a faulty tie-pair, so it seems nobody bothered to even check it was working where it leaves the exchange either.
Then when I moved to Origin Broadband on Digital Region EXACTLY the same thing happened again, except this time of course the error was at the street cabinet.
I must point out that from what I can gather the engineer did exactly as described on the job sheet. The problem is that did not factor in the potential for the instructions being wrong about which jumper block my line was fitted at.
So Wednesday I was disconnected first thing in the morning, by Thursday evening both me and my ISP knew my E side had been incorrectly jumpered to someone elses house as they had tried calling my number and left a message on the persons answering machine. Of course neither of us could get that message across to Openreach due to the amount of bureaucracy between the parties involved.
By Saturday the other persons line had been repaired, but mine was left hanging (turns out literally, my line had been completely disconnected and left loose in the cabinet) until Monday.
Granted the last case was made over-complicated due to the shared architecture, but the biggest delays was Openreach saying it must be Digital Regions cabinet that was faulty. Openreach outright refused to come out and double check it wasn't their fault, Digital Region actually sent out engineers to their cabinet TWICE on connection day to prove everything was working there.
In both of these cases if they had been engineer installs, the problems would have been fixed in minutes rather than days as the engineer would have found there was a problem immediately.
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Going back onto the subject of self-install, its really not all its cracked up to be in my experience.
When I moved to Be I was left without a phone line for several days as due to it being self-install, nobody checks the line works at the customers premises after doing the jumpering at the exchange. I was told the problem was a faulty tie-pair, so it seems nobody bothered to even check it was working where it leaves the exchange either.
Then when I moved to Origin Broadband on Digital Region EXACTLY the same thing happened again, except this time of course the error was at the street cabinet.
I must point out that from what I can gather the engineer did exactly as described on the job sheet. The problem is that did not factor in the potential for the instructions being wrong about which jumper block my line was fitted at.
So Wednesday I was disconnected first thing in the morning, by Thursday evening both me and my ISP knew my E side had been incorrectly jumpered to someone elses house as they had tried calling my number and left a message on the persons answering machine. Of course neither of us could get that message across to Openreach due to the amount of bureaucracy between the parties involved.
By Saturday the other persons line had been repaired, but mine was left hanging (turns out literally, my line had been completely disconnected and left loose in the cabinet) until Monday.
Granted the last case was made over-complicated due to the shared architecture, but the biggest delays was Openreach saying it must be Digital Regions cabinet that was faulty. Openreach outright refused to come out and double check it wasn't their fault, Digital Region actually sent out engineers to their cabinet TWICE on connection day to prove everything was working there.
In both of these cases if they had been engineer installs, the problems would have been fixed in minutes rather than days as the engineer would have found there was a problem immediately.
For info.
The problems with migrating to a different CP/ISP is that when the order is being progressed by your new provider, it comes to Openreach and a routing (the pair of wires from the Exchange to the EU's premises) is robotically calculated. Obviously, it 'sees' the existing routing you are on as a 'worker', due to you still being connected with your current provider, so it has to offer up a different routing. Ergo, there will always be engineering work required to get the DT/DSL services to your premises.
Also, when the Exchange work is done, the 'Frames engineer' has to carry out a line test (Eclipse/Fast Test), it is mandatory. The obvious problem is that the new routing could very easily be connected to a master socket in an empty property, or in a premises that has moved to Virgin Media but still has the old BT master socket intact. Therefore, the test result will show as LTOK (Line tests ok).
Hope this makes sense ?
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Well when my exchange gets the FTTC upgrade I will definently upgrade as I only get 3 Mbps downstream.
I can justify the additional cost as I am almost always online (except when I'm in bed or in work ! )