Kitz Forum
Computer Software => Windows 7 => Topic started by: toulouse on October 07, 2012, 10:05:14 AM
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....I'm going to ask it anyway.
I have now been approached by two separate people, who are used to using Microsoft Outlook Express under Windows XP (various flavours). Both of those people, and myself have recently bought new notebook computers which all came with Windows 7 Home (again various flavours), and none of us like the new Windows 7 email program. This got me thinking about whether it would be possible to somehow get each of our existing Outlook Express versions to run under Windows 7. Failing that, does anybody know if it's possible to make the Windows 7 email program work in the same way as the older Microsoft Outlook Express, and make it look more like OE. I suspect the answer will be an emphatic NO, but thought it worth asking anyway.
Your thoughts would be most welcome,
toulouse
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I tried all that, but found no way to get it working.
The closest I got was to install full Outlook, but that couldn't use Newsgroups.
In the end, after trying a few different programs I ended up with Thunderbird email.
It wasn't as easy to set up different accounts as Outlook Express, but it's O.K.
I would still go back to Outlook Express if I had the choice though.
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Thanks for that Bald_Eagle1 - I thought that would probably be the case, so thanks for confirming it for me.
I think that it's a case of what those 2 other people are used to, i.e. Outlook Express - maybe I ought to try and convince them both to move on and adapt to the new program. I have used Windows Live Mail myself, and I also much prefer OE.
TTFN
toulouse
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If you are having to change email client anyway might I suggest taking a look at Thunderbird? I moved to it on XP a while ago and now I use Linux it means I can share my email between XP and Linux on the rare occasions I dual boot this PC. My Laptop runs W7 Home Premium and I run Thunderbird on that and can download all my email from my NAS backup so I have it all accessible from W7 as well, although I dont bother to keep it in sync all the time but it has been very handy when my main PC had to go for repair.
Stuart
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none of us like the new Windows 7 email program.
Er, excuse the silly question, but WHAT program?
Windows 7 does NOT include an email client (unlike Vista). :no:
If you have chosen to use one it was either "pre-loaded" by your hardware supplier or you chose and installed it yourself. ???
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OE is/was a nightmare in terms of keeping backups as it seems to store the various message, address books etc in different obscure places, multiple different files and anyway uses a propietry storage format.
Personally I ditched OE when I moved from Win98 to WinXP and now use MSOutlook.
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Simples ..... dump the lot and move to an Apple i-Mac ...... the best of the best regarding OS. ;)
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Not sure how relevant that is to the initial question - have you managed to get Outlook Express working on a Mac (not using any Windows emulation)? :graduate:
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Its relevancy is in the answer .....
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I tried all that, but found no way to get it working.
The closest I got was to install full Outlook, but that couldn't use Newsgroups.
In the end, after trying a few different programs I ended up with Thunderbird email.
It wasn't as easy to set up different accounts as Outlook Express, but it's O.K.
I would still go back to Outlook Express if I had the choice though.
I found myself in exactly the same boat, and although I installed Thunderbird, I ended up sticking with Outlook.
Id also go back to OE its much more lightweight, its just a shame that it was discontinued.
>>> OE is/was a nightmare in terms of keeping backups
Too late for you now but I used to use a really nice little prog called OE Backup (http://www.genie9.com/home/Genie_Outlook_Express_Backup/Default.aspx) that took care of everything very nicely.
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Just a quick update on this topic for those who may be interested......
....when I started this topic, I had been approached by one of my neighbours whose comment was that "I can't get my email working, could you please help me". Ok, I thought, I can certainly try. When I went to this ladys flat, it turned out that she had just bought a new Toshiba laptop from PCWorld, after putting her old laptop in for a cleanup or something. She had been scammed by someone who phoned her up and said that her computer had been compromised, and that the guy on the phone could fix it if she went to the local Western Union office and made a payment of £150 - WARNING WILL ROBINSON, WARNING !!!!! Anyway apparently, she made the payment and then saw something on TV about this scam, so then decided to take the laptop to PCWorld to get it cleaned up. On Saturday, when I went to try and help her, she had the new Tosh laptop up and running, but was unable to get any incoming emails - there were 8 waiting to be downloaded, but the download timed out before they were delivered, Error 0x800CCC0F. I tried to adjust the 'server timeout' just in case the server at mail.btinternet.com was busy, but this didn't work, and I have since found out that in Outlook Express there is supposed to be a logging facility which can be used to troubleshoot and debug server timeout problems. I seriously suspect, that the server is failing to authenticate her properly, probably because the sign in details are not correct, but I only have the information that she has given me, which definitely does not work. I spent several hours, yesterday trying to get this issue resolved for her, but I am now fairly certain that for some reason (not known at present) she is not getting authorised correctly and is therefore prevented from receiving the emails that are waiting for her on the btinternet.com mail server. I also installed Malwarebytes Anti-Malware for her, and that quarantined two items which I think may have been related to the scamming that she received. These items were removed by Malwarebytes, after running a scan.
So, my new question for now is - does anyone know where to find this Outlook Express logging file or information, which might help me confirm exactly what her problem is ?
As previously mentioned, both SWMBO and myself have also recently purchased notebook computers with Windows 7 Home (Basic(SWMBO) & Premium(toulouse)) preinstalled. The email program provided on both of these machines appears to be Windows Live Mail, and neither SWMBO or me like that program, so at some point I will try Thunderbird as suggested by several of you on here.
toulouse
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>> She had been scammed by someone who phoned her up and said that her computer had been compromised
That scam makes me so mad, preying on the elderly >:(
>> does anyone know where to find this Outlook Express logging file or information
Unfortunately OE just wont work with Win 7 and is incompatible. Many people have tried to find a way, but it just fails and wont run :(
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The solution to the email problem is to use 'Windows Mail' don't make the mistake of confusing the name with 'winmail' or windows live mail.
There is only one slight difference which I can't honestly remember what it is now, as it was a long time ago when I wrote/copied/ or altered the tutorial below, but it works and is just to much like OE.
I even drag and drop files from OE into Windows Mail and Visa versa so again fully compatible with each other.
Just remembered the difference, there is no address book on the bottom left corner, you have to access it from the usual menu or toolbar.
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Instructions for installing a copy of Windows Mail from a Vista PC on a PC running Windows 7,
although there might be problems setting it as the "default" if there are other email programs installed in 7, such as MS Outlook.
http://www.sevenforums.com/tutorials/5481-windows-mail.html
General Notes
1. When Windows Mail is first run it should prompt to set Windows Mail as default.
If there are any problems setting it as default the following post may help here.
In association with this post, it may help to run the attachment SetWinMailDefault.zip.
2. In some environments, having Windows Live Mail installed may cause conflicts, so it may be necessary to remove it.
"Go to "Uninstall or change a program" then find the file called "Windows Live Essentials" once selected you will notice
on the header bar above is a icon for "CHANGE" once this is selected you will then be presented with a list of
Windows Live tools that can be changed or removed/deleted, from here you can chose remove/delete.
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Here's How:
1. Download and run the attachment: WinMailEdit.zip.
Warning
It is critical to do this before carrying out steps (3) & (4).
This auto exe file edits the registry to allow .eml files to be opened on the desktop,
removes the WinMail splash screen at start-up and resolves various conflicts.
2. Remove WinMail.exe attributes to view hidden files.
A) Open: Start Menu ==> All Programs ==> Accessories ==> Run.
B) Type the following code exactly as shown, (or highlight, copy and paste it), into the Run Command box; and then click "OK":
Code:
attrib -s -h "%ProgramFiles%\Windows Mail\WinMail.exe"
3. In Windows Mail folder, take full control of the file "msoe.dll" as follows.
Warning
If running 64bit Windows 7, before carrying out this step, read "Footnote 3" below.
A) Download and install Take Ownership to add it.
http://www.sevenforums.com/tutorials/1911-take-ownership-shortcut.html
B) Open: Start Orb => Computer => C: Drive => Program Files => Windows Mail folder => Right click: "msoe.dll" file => In drop down menu click: Take Ownership.
*Note 1: If WinMail.exe file is not visible in Windows Mail folder, then apply "Footnote 4" below.
*Note 2: Before proceeding to Step 4, copy and save "msoe.dll" file as back-up for safety.
4. Download and save the appropriate Vista Windows Mail "msoe.dll" file from the following attachments:
* 32bit msoe.dll:
download
* 64bit msoe.dll:
download
A) Open Windows Mail Folder in Windows 7 Program files ==> Paste the Vista "msoe.dll" into it, replacing the existing Windows 7 "msoe.dll".
*Note: If it will not allow the paste, take full control of the Windows 7 "msoe.dll" manually as per "Footnote 1" below, and then paste.
B) Right click: WinMail.exe ==> Send to desktop as a shortcut.
*Note: If email .eml files still cannot be opened on the desktop, it may be necessary to manually edit the registry as per "Footnote 2"
5. To enable Windows Calendar in Windows Mail.
Go to tutorial in this forum.
6. To import Contacts, Accounts, Folders & Emails.
From Vista to Windows 7, go to this post.
Note
Footnotes
1. Manually take full control of files.
* Right click the file "msoe.dll" ==> Properties ==> Security Tab ==> Advanced ==> Owner Tab ==> Edit ==> Highlight User Name ==> Apply ==> OK ==> OK
* Under "Security Tab" click: Edit ==> Under "Group or user names", the first entry is highlighted.
* Under "Permissions for System", tick: "Full Control" ==> Apply ==> Do the same for every entry ==> OK ==> Close.
*Note: If the option to edit the entries under "Group or user names" is grayed out, take the following steps:
* Under "Security" tab click: "Advanced" ==> "Change Permissions" ==> Untick: "Include inheritable permissions from this objects parents" ==> Click: "Add" in the pop-up window ==> Apply ==> OK.
* Return to the security tab and edit to grant full control as shown above.
2. Manually edit the following registry key if SP1 is installed.
* Start Menu ==> All Programs ==> Accessories ==> Run ==> Type: Regedit ==> OK
* Go to: HKEY_CURRENT_USER ==> Software ==> Classes ==> eml_auto_file ==> shell ==> open ==> command
* Double click: Default (in right pane) ==> Value Data ==> Completely replace by copying and pasting the following exactly as shown:
* "C:\Program Files\Windows Mail\winmail.exe" /eml:%1
3. For 64bit Windows 7 Installations.
In 64bit Windows 7 installations there are two sets of program files . It is essential to copy and paste the 64bit Vista Windows Mail file "msoe.dll" into the Windows Mail folder in the normal Program Files. The same applies when importing 64bit Windows Calendar - See Step 5.
Do NOT import it to the 32bit Windows Mail folder in Program Files(x86). Click on picture below to expand and see location of program files.
Windows Mail-program-20files-x86-.png
4. Manually show hidden files
* Go to: Start Orb ==> Computer ==> C: Drive ==> Program Files ==> Open: Windows Mail ==> Top Task Bar ==> Tools ==> Drop down menu ==> Folder Options ==> View Tab
* Dot: Show hidden files, folders...
* Untick: Hide empty drives... Hide extensions... Hide protected operating...
* In response to the warning click: Yes ==> Apply ==> OK.
* After all the steps are done, restore default view settings.
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Hey, thanks for that very informative response oldfogy.
toulouse
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To be honest I didn't remember it being as long winded as that write up, or did I elaborate to try and make it a bit more foll-proof?
I don't know, but it works and I have been using it for nearly 2 years now without any problems.
Like I said, everything is compatible with OE so no need to start creating new accounts etc etc, if you already have them, then just use Outlook Expresses 'for accounts' Import / Export feature and the similar setting with all the saved mail and folders, then again Import with Windows Mail.
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Not wishing to rain on anyones parade, but Windows Live Mail will happily import Outlook Express messages (folders etc.). 8)
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It may well import etc, but it just does not have the same feel and texture as good old OE.
'IF' memory serves me correct, when I did try it and as I have several email addresses then trying to use windows live mail meant I had to create duplicate folders for each address which then started getting ridiculous.
The number of folders I already have in OE is already ridiculous enough but if I were to duplicate everything for each address then I would never get any where.
But obviously a good point and reminder for anyone who wants to go down that road.
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There are actually several versions of Live Mail, with different "look and feel".
The "latest" version which you'll get by default on Windows 7 is a bit too different to OE for many tastes, but the more "traditional" XP version is closer in style.
I use outlook 2007 for my main email accounts but also use WLM, all on W7. I've chosen to use the older "XP" version which is dated 2009 and ignore offered updates. ;)
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Personally i wouldn't use a client and instead rely on a secure password vault and an online account - as far as i can see if i leave all my emails on googles / microsofts mail servers and there is a problem with the e-mail - then it isn't hitting my computer, read your mail online and don't download attachments, unless you know what it is and you have been expecting it.
And in my opinion - Use fsmail or GMX
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I must admit that the last place I trust any of my data is any kind of cloud storage. I like my data in my control and backed up under my local control. In years of using PCs (since the very first IBM PC) I have only ever had one virus problem on a Windows PC and that was an attachment I got from someone I thought I could trust!!! I have been using the Penguin now for quite a long time and feel that it is very unlikely to ever see a virus, on top of that my mail servers I get my mail from have a very good anti-virus and anti-spam system in place.
Stuart
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Additionally with web based email if you are hacked your entire contact list addresses/phones/emails etc becomes "available" to be spammed...or worse.
With an off line MSOutlook like mail client then your contact list is more secure.
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From looking at the various settings dialogue boxes, I'd say that Windows Live Mail is just a makeover of OE - they seem very very similar inside. You can configure the layout of the panes to resemble the classic OE view as well, with position of folder, preview and email list windows, if that helps?
Also, if you want to check you've got the latest version of Live Mail, go here http://windows.microsoft.com/en-GB/windows-live/essentials-home (http://windows.microsoft.com/en-GB/windows-live/essentials-home) and click the blue button to download.
It'll offer to install a suite of Windows Live programs that you've not yet got on the PC, but you can untick the ones you don't want. It'll also update existing programs within the suite that you've already got.
The download works for XP/Vista/7, but it'll select the appropriate version accordingly - you won't get such a recent version of Live Mail on XP as you do on Windows 7. (Win 7 Live Mail recently had a bug fix update a week or two back)
When you run that program, you might want to untick the extra things it'll offer to download, if you don't want Photo viewer, family safety filter etc.
Ian
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>>> OE is/was a nightmare in terms of keeping backups
Too late for you now but I used to use a really nice little prog called OE Backup (http://www.genie9.com/home/Genie_Outlook_Express_Backup/Default.aspx) that took care of everything very nicely.
Kitz,
First of all thanks for the link, that's something I have been wanting for a long time, because although normally I just drag over a copy over the relevant OE folder to save as a backup (as well as using on the odd occasional Import/Export setting) but that has never backed up my settings, so then I have always had to start again with creating rules etc, which was always a pain.
You say you used to use, in which case can I ask why you no longer use it, is it because it is not compatible with either your current email program or OS?
Finally,
Just in case it's not just me, but I did have a bit of a problem with the download which I tried about 3 times, then after the first part of the install where you need to BE CAREFUL and un-tick the add-on toolbar if you don't want it, the option was then to install later, which is what I then chose and this time it showed me where it had downloaded the actual program to, so I then ran the program from there and it then installed without any problems.
Like I say, it could have just been me (nothing unusual there says he).
So-far I have only played with it the once but it looks fairly good and I hope it remembers my previous settings of where to save etc, as that was the only bug-bear with it's default settings and it doesn't help with my system not being very standard because apart from the OS everything else runs off a NAS box which is set as being 'My Documents' but I want the backup file/s on the actual PC, I know if the HDD goes down I lose it, but that's something I'm aware and prepared to accept, not too mention the same files are networked onto 3 other PC's so I would not lose very much, probably only the actual settings.
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Just a quick word of support for OE Backup. I have used it happily for about 18 months now on my XP system on which it works well.
Tony
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You say you used to use, in which case can I ask why you no longer use it, is it because it is not compatible with either your current email program or OS?
Unfortunately its not compatible with my current email program.
Im using Win7 so cant use Outlook Express. I used OE Backup for many many though on my XP system with OE.
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Thanks Kitz.
I find it a pretty good little program and can just set it to backup and forget about it, 'sort of'
The only thing I don't like is that it always overwrites the old backup instead of creating a new one with a consequential number, but hey, we can't always have everything we want, but as it was still in the trial mode I had set the backup for, well eventually weekly but will be changing it now for monthly, at least then if there is a problem I should notice it before the old backup is overwrite, although it will not be the only backup that I would have saved anyway.
I've not tried it on the Windows Mail yet.