Kitz Forum
Broadband Related => FTTC and FTTP Issues => Topic started by: bbnovice on September 30, 2012, 06:32:21 PM
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Hi,
I’m on BT Infinity FTTC on the 40/10 offer. My IP profile is 38.72/10.0 and I’m actually achieving 36.83/8.28 on a consistent basis.
I was tempted by the BT 80/20 free upgrade a while ago, but backed off after reading about lots of issues about this on the BT forums – particularly those customers who now seem to get lower speeds following their upgrade from 40/10 to 80/20.
I’ve now given it a while to settle down and the level of complaints on the BT forums seems to have reduced recently.
Anybody here have any thoughts or advice about the current situation regarding an upgrade to 80/20? It’s not vital for me to do this – but it would be a “nice to have” (particularly as its "free" - sort of!)
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As you're getting almost full speeds on your current package, I would suggest you will benefit from the upgrade. Go for it.
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38.72Mb is the maximum IP Profile speed for the 40Mb service (96.79% of sync speed for FTTC services).
Some users who can just achieve the maximum 40Mb have seen DS speeds suffer when switching to 80/20, with maybe a slight increase in US speed.
What is your current speed estimate from BT Speed Estimate (https://www.dslchecker.bt.com/pls/adsl/ADSLChecker.Telephone?URL=&SP_NAME=a%20service%20provider&VERSION=28&MS=E&CAP=no&AEA=Y) & do you have any idea what your attainable rate is (e.g. from an unlocked modem)?
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Thanks for the prompt BE - I do have a BT forecast which I forgot to include in my original post.
The BT forecast is 55/18. I was surprised that the DS rate did not increase as much as I would have expected bearing in mind the US forecast is pretty close to the maximum than could be expected.
Unfortunately I've not been brave enough to unlock the modem yet so don't have any other stats.
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Quite often the estimated speed is rather pessimistic, but not in every case
Unlocking your modem or obtaining a spare one & unlocking it would give you stats such as the following:-
Max: Upstream rate = 4980 Kbps, Downstream rate = 34468 Kbps
Path: 0, Upstream rate = 4999 Kbps, Downstream rate = 29010 Kbps
Discovery Phase (Initial) Band Plan
US: (0,95) (868,1207) (1972,2783)
DS: (32,859) (1216,1963) (2792,3959)
Medley Phase (Final) Band Plan
US: (0,95) (868,1207)
DS: (32,859) (1216,1963)
VDSL Port Details Upstream Downstream
Attainable Net Data Rate: 4980 kbps 34468 kbps
Actual Aggregate Tx Power: 6.3 dBm 12.6 dBm
============================================================================
VDSL Band Status U0 U1 U2 U3 D1 D2 D3
Line Attenuation(dB): 8.3 54.3 75.3 N/A 21.9 64.2 0.1
Signal Attenuation(dB): 8.7 53.7 N/A N/A 21.9 64.2 N/A
SNR Margin(dB): 5.5 5.5 N/A N/A 6.4 6.6 N/A
TX Power(dBm): -4.4 5.9 N/A N/A 11.4 6.4 N/A
Clearly, 80/20 is no use for my longer distance connection as I can't even achieve 40Mb.
I have attached an example of a connection that achieves the full 20Mb US sync speed, but only 65.822Mb DS.
We can see that 20Mb US is achieved at lower than tone 2783 (approx 12MHz).
Some DS bitloading is achieved right up to tone 3959 (approx 17MHz).
You connection may be able to achieve most of the 20Mb US, but is perhaps unable to use much (if any) of the higher frequency DS tones, therefore your estimate is only 55Mb DS.
Without access to your own connection stats, particularly the MAX rates (attainable rates), it would be pretty much anyone's guess as to what you would achieve if switching to 80/20.
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OK. Thanks for the info.
May go for the upgrade as it doesn't cost apart from extending the BT contract.
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May go for the upgrade as it doesn't cost apart from extending the BT contract.
In the unlikely event that it doesn't work out as an improvement for you, can you easily revert to a 40/10 service without any penalty?
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Don't know if you can revert back from 80/20
I will ask the question
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Hi,
Could not find out if BT would reverse an upgrade if it didn't work out, so took a chance and ordered the upgrade anyway. It happened last night.
The stats are:
Old profile: 38.72/10
Actual achieved: 37/8
BT upgrade forecast: 55/18
New profile: 51.34/20
Actual achieved this morning (BT speed test): 48/9
Note that the actual speeds quoted are through a wired connection using a nearly new high spec PC running Windows 7 (64).
So the actual speed has fallen short of the forecast. In particular the US speed appears to have hardly improved at all and is only 50% of forecast.
I'm happy to accept this though, as its not cost me anything, but I'm yet another user disappointed by the accuracy of the BT forecaster.
I'll try another speed test later.
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Working your IP Profile backward, its 96.79% of sync speed works out at just over 53Mb, so not too far out from BT's DS estimate.
I THINK BT's speed estimates relate to sync speed (even though officially there is no way for users to check it on FTTC connections) ;)
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Working your IP Profile backward, its 96.79% of sync speed works out at just over 53Mb, so not too far out from BT's DS estimate.
I THINK BT's speed estimates relate to sync speed (even though officially there is no way for users to check it on FTTC connections) ;)
They are BE. I'm sure there must be some way of getting the stats from the modem ?? :lol:
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Hi,
Could not find out if BT would reverse an upgrade if it didn't work out, so took a chance and ordered the upgrade anyway. It happened last night.
The stats are:
Old profile: 38.72/10
Actual achieved: 37/8
BT upgrade forecast: 55/18
New profile: 51.34/20
Actual achieved this morning (BT speed test): 48/9
Note that the actual speeds quoted are through a wired connection using a nearly new high spec PC running Windows 7 (64).
So the actual speed has fallen short of the forecast. In particular the US speed appears to have hardly improved at all and is only 50% of forecast.
I'm happy to accept this though, as its not cost me anything, but I'm yet another user disappointed by the accuracy of the BT forecaster.
I'll try another speed test later.
A prime example of how BT can't seem to win, whatever they do. The OP has gained approx 10Meg on the DS FOR FREE, and still there's slight dissapointment in an estimate that wasn't too far out. ???
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A prime example of how BT can't seem to win, whatever they do. The OP has gained approx 10Meg on the DS FOR FREE, and still there's slight dissapointment in an estimate that wasn't too far out. ???
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I take exception to that. I pointed out quite clearly that I was happy to accept the speed improvement, particularly as it was provided free.
I was particularly focussing on the US forecast speed which I regard as highly inaccurate (even allowing for the usual BT caveats) - almost 50% out this morning. Over the day the US speed has gradually decreased until it is now the same as it was achieved previously on the old 40/10 profile ie 8. So the actual DS speed is now only 44% of forecast.
If I had been paying for this (eg as a new user) I would be asking BT some much harder questions.
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A prime example of how BT can't seem to win, whatever they do. The OP has gained approx 10Meg on the DS FOR FREE, and still there's slight dissapointment in an estimate that wasn't too far out. ???
I take exception to that. I pointed out quite clearly that I was happy to accept the speed improvement, particularly as it was provided free.
I was particularly focussing on the US forecast speed which I regard as highly inaccurate (even allowing for the usual BT caveats) - almost 50% out this morning. Over the day the US speed has gradually decreased until it is now the same as it was achieved previously on the old 40/10 profile ie 8. So the actual DS speed is now only 44% of forecast.
If I had been paying for this (eg as a new user) I would be asking BT some much harder questions.
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Thats the point, you're not paying for the free upgrade. There hasn't been 24hrs passed since you were upgraded, give it a chance !!!
You don't need to take exception, I am merely pointing out the flip-side of the arguement. BT offer FREE upgrades, and STILL there's unhapiness. As I work for BT, I feel duty bound to leap to their defence especially when they're damned if they do, and damned if they dont.
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I think much of the problem here is that some of the more experienced users are used to being able to see their lines stats and see what is going on. The router firmware being locked down is a PITA, and the speed estimates being so hit and miss.
Im also hesitant about going on FTTC because I have a horrible feeling that I may find myself in a similar position to BE :(
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Kitz you make the point better than I.
I am not having a go at BT for the technology - or any other ISP for that matter. When I consider what I was getting just 8 months ago on ADSL the BT FTTC service is a fantastic improvement and I'm glad to receive it.
The beef I have is that BT needs to add to more caveats to their speed forecasts but I don't think they will for marketing reasons. I'm sure all of us on this forum well understand the technical network/management constraints but (in my case) achieving only 44% of an US speed estimate would not be acceptable if I were a new paying customer. One could argue that DS is a lot more important than US but with the advent of cloud storage services etc, the US speeds are going to become increasingly more important in future.
Just to reiterate. I'm very happy with what I receive from BT but in my opinion they need to think a bit more about their speed estimator. I'm in business as a Chartered Accountant and if I only delivered 44% of my estimated tax service estimates then my clients would skin me alive. I know I can be a fast talker, but there are limits..........
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Kitz you make the point better than I.
I am not having a go at BT for the technology - or any other ISP for that matter. When I consider what I was getting just 8 months ago on ADSL the BT FTTC service is a fantastic improvement and I'm glad to receive it.
The beef I have is that BT needs to add to more caveats to their speed forecasts but I don't think they will for marketing reasons. I'm sure all of us on this forum well understand the technical network/management constraints but (in my case) achieving only 44% of an US speed estimate would not be acceptable if I were a new paying customer. One could argue that DS is a lot more important than US but with the advent of cloud storage services etc, the US speeds are going to become increasingly more important in future.
Just to reiterate. I'm very happy with what I receive from BT but in my opinion they need to think a bit more about their speed estimator. I'm in business as a Chartered Accountant and if I only delivered 44% of my estimated tax service estimates then my clients would skin me alive. I know I can be a fast talker, but there are limits..........
Ha ha ... ;D You also make a fair point. I have to say though, in my experience the 'Guesstimator' is usually nearer the mark than you have personally experienced. Hopefully, time may bring your service nearer to the quoted speeds ?? :fingers:
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Hi BS - something you may be able to advise me about ref the US speed.
I had a lot of trouble in the past with ADSL2 (Virgin was the ISP) which in the end was resolved by some trickery by Openreach in the network and a normalisation of my internal wiring. They installed a new NTE in the house, together with a faceplate on the NTE stamped "ADSL V10"
When I migrated to Infinity the OR engineer did not install a new VDSL specific faceplate, so I'm still using the old ADSL V10 plate. On the 40/10 FTTC service this did not seem to cause any issues.
Is that something I need to revisit?
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Hi BS - something you may be able to advise me about ref the US speed.
I had a lot of trouble in the past with ADSL2 (Virgin was the ISP) which in the end was resolved by some trickery by Openreach in the network and a normalisation of my internal wiring. They installed a new NTE in the house, together with a faceplate on the NTE stamped "ADSL V10"
When I migrated to Infinity the OR engineer did not install a new VDSL specific faceplate, so I'm still using the old ADSL V10 plate. On the 40/10 FTTC service this did not seem to cause any issues.
Is that something I need to revisit?
Lazy bar-steward !! I have no idea why some engineers don't install the VDSL intermediate plate, choosing to leave the ADSL frontplate (NTE2000) in-situ ?? It takes minutes to install, however as you are aware, either filter will work.
Unfortunately, I haven't any evidence to say one way or the other, which is the better filter ?? What I can say, is that both items can and do go faulty, surprisingly quickly in some cases !! The NTE2000 is now a non-stocked item, with the VDSL IP being the filter of choice for both ADSL and VDSL services.
As an aside, there has been a trial over parts of the country around FTTC sef-install, whereby the EU uses the original micro-filter to plug there Huawei/ECI modem into. I dont have any further info regarding the outcome (speeds etc), but the trial has come to an end, and we are being tasked with fitting the proper VDSL IP at these trial sites.
Just my guess, but it seems on the face of it that 'self-install' via the dongle filters doesn't give the EU as agood an experience as having an engineering visit ??
I only mention this as it would appear having the correct filter/set up pays dividends, so maybe the VDSL IP does have a slight advantage over the NTE2000 ??
Maybe B*Cat or ASBO or one of the other 'Reverse engineering' experts, can shed some light on it ?? :)
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Huh? ??? Was my name mentioned?
I own both an NTE2000 (currently fitted and in use) and a VDSL IP. The former was manufactured by Pressac whilst the latter is an LPT Technology product. Electronically they are identical. The only difference is in the physical presentation.
The VDSL IP, being an interstitial plate, has been designed with EU self-install in mind. That slot in the lower surface is not to allow spiders, earwigs and woodlice easy access to the insides nor to allow canis familiaris fluid to dampen the electronics but to enable the most numpty of EUs to self-install the device. Consider what needs to be done to fit an NTE2000 where there is telephony extension wiring in existence. Now compare it to the ease of fitting an interstitial plate device. The electronic differences between either of the SSFPs and a dangly microfilter is minimal, assuming a satisfactory construction of the latter. They are but different presentations of a low-pass filter. ;)
I suspect the reason why Openreach Technician installations are still the preferred route is due to the poor standard of EU wiring and lack of understanding.
Personally, I am waiting for EU self-installation to become the norm before I consider a FTTC VDSL2 service. :D
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Thanks for the explanation bkat. I will now rest easy!
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I will now rest easy!
Purrfect! :)
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@ Kitz,
But there are Pussies and Eagles here who can assist in unlocking the modem, or more safely, substituting an unlocked modem perhaps e.g. obtained from EBay.
Kind regards,
Walter