Kitz Forum

Announcements => ISP Offers & Deals => Topic started by: SecTSys on September 19, 2012, 02:47:37 PM

Title: BT Latest
Post by: SecTSys on September 19, 2012, 02:47:37 PM
http://www.productsandservices.bt.com/consumerProducts/displayTopic.do?topicId=25633&Infinity=yes (http://www.productsandservices.bt.com/consumerProducts/displayTopic.do?topicId=25633&Infinity=yes)

so they are rolling out the new 100mb FTTC connections (In some areas). The question i want to ask is - is it worth it?

looking at the stats they are giving it looks like you are going to be sacrificing your upload speed in order to obtain a higher download speed - which lets be fair - kinda sucks.

the offer that i am comparing it to is this the next option down from that. or "Option 2"
Code: [Select]
Unlimited Broadband and Evening & Weekend Calls

    Superfast BT Infinity    FREE unlimited wi-fi    Advanced security    BT Home Hub    18 month contract

Up to 76Mb download speed / Up to 19Mb upload speed / Unlimited usage / Evening & Weekend Calls included

you get a Sainsburys £50 Gift Card
Online exclusive £26 £20/mth for 3 monthsº
+ Line rental from £10.75
this is the package that i am on. - and personally i like to have a good upload speed - i run a home server system that i can also access securely via the web - so i can stream.

for the 100 mbps connection we have this
Code: [Select]
Unlimited Broadband and Evening & Weekend Calls


    FREE unlimited wi-fi    Advanced security    BT Home Hub   18 month contract

Up to 100Mb download speed / Up to 15Mb upload speed - Unlimited usage

Sainsburys £50 Gift Card

Online exclusive £35
+ Line rental from £10.75

so please someone explain to me - why if and when it becomes available in my area should i upgrade the package? it will cost me £9 a month more, for a slower upload speed and what is essentially a mediocre improvement on my download speeds - i though the idea of upgrading was ideally to improve the speeds of both upload and download!

And for heavens sake. BT I would rather have 50 meg down 50 meg up than 100 meg down and 15 meg up - because we all know that 15 meg will end up being about 9 meg once it is set up and the profiles are set. and the 100 meg down will probably end up being about 85 - 90 meg (if we are lucky enough to be right on top of the cabinet)
Title: Re: BT Latest
Post by: kitz on September 19, 2012, 03:36:20 PM
On the face of it it does seem rather stupid, but I believe the 100Mb product is FTTP rather than FTTC hence the different pricing structure.
Title: Re: BT Latest
Post by: Black Sheep on September 19, 2012, 03:37:00 PM
The answer is that not everyone runs a home server, or for that matter is actually that interested in vast upload speeds. The business model BT are introducing is aimed at the wider target audience, not individually tailored packages. You can have a tailored package if you like, but you will pay more dinero for the privelage. Also, until the laws of physics can be altered, it will always be an 'up to 100 meg' service (or any other rate adaptive DSL).

In essence, (and I can't quote actual figures), I would guess that 80 per-cent of the populous don't even know what their speed is, nor even care. So long as it does what they want they're happy.
Title: Re: BT Latest
Post by: Black Sheep on September 19, 2012, 03:38:34 PM
I thought the FTTP service was offering 330 meg ???
Title: Re: BT Latest
Post by: Bald_Eagle1 on September 19, 2012, 06:04:46 PM
On the face of it it does seem rather stupid, but I believe the 100Mb product is FTTP rather than FTTC hence the different pricing structure.

If it really is FTTP, then I might be interested as my FTTC connection only achieves around 28Mb/4.5Mb or 33Mb/2Mb due to losses over the distance from the cabinet of around 1km.

(Note the higher upload speed actually lowers the download speed).

As I understand matters, FTTP speed would not suffer from the same losses over 1km.

If my FTTC connection could actually sync at & sustain 80/20 (with even higher attainable rates as spare margin), I would have no interest whatsoever in a FTTP service, even at 330Mb DS.

Not all FTTC users live close to the cabinet.

Title: Re: BT Latest
Post by: kitz on September 19, 2012, 07:45:57 PM
AFAIK the current retail pricing structure is:-

BT Infinity = 40/10 FTTC
BT Infinity2 = 80/20 FTTC
BT Infinity 100Mb = 100/15 FTTP(1)


Im happy to be corrected but afaik FTTP(2) which provides the 330/20 product is only currently in trials at a very few selected exchanges. (trial pricing (http://www.openreach.co.uk/orpg/home/products/pricing/loadProductPriceDetails.do?data=5xkobqr%2FkhOcoPvrTUgZ0WN1RbnIBJva2N1CptsyFkVZ6rNZujnCs99NbIKJZPD9hXYmiijxH6wr%0ACQm97GZMyQ%3D%3D))

-----

@ BE

 
I fully understand what youre saying as its one of the things that gives me some concern too as I wont see any less distance from the CAB than the exchange if I go FTTC.

There is some hope for you as next year exchange on demand starts to come in, but what could be the major concern isnt the monthly fees, but the activation cost, and who would pay for it.  I dont have any hard figures but Ive seen rumours of around £1700.  If anyone has further info to add on this, then please do.


-----

Edited to add,
BT seems to be calling this product Generic Ethernet Access over Fibre to the Premises (GEA-FTTP) if it helps anyone searching.
Title: Re: BT Latest
Post by: Bald_Eagle1 on September 19, 2012, 08:42:57 PM
Ive seen rumours of around £1700.  If anyone has further info to add on this, then please do.


That counts me out immediately then  :lol:
Title: Re: BT Latest
Post by: kitz on September 19, 2012, 09:30:12 PM
Despite searching I cant find anything concrete about the cost other than this (http://www.btplc.com/news/articles/showarticle.cfm?articleid={ab5a4cfe-b30b-4472-9652-99f48445587a}) so even BT dont know yet.

Quote
The pilots intend to make ultra-fast 330Mbps FTTP available ‘on demand’ in FTTC areas for the first time. CPs will be able to order the service where there is interest and then assist Openreach with the cost of deployment. It will then be up to the CP to decide whether to absorb that likely one-off charge, recover it through higher monthly prices or pass it on in full to their customer.

The pilots will enable Openreach to gain an in-depth understanding of the costs of deploying FTTP on Demand. Any installation fee is highly likely to be distance dependent given the nature of the necessary work.
Title: Re: BT Latest
Post by: burakkucat on September 19, 2012, 11:00:34 PM
Ive seen rumours of around £1700.  If anyone has further info to add on this, then please do.

That counts me out immediately then  :lol:

 :hmm:  Hmm . . . I don't suppose Mrs Eagle will go without two months worth of shoes, handbags and feather preening, would she?

Here is a Beatie Wholesale page entitled Wholesale Ethernet GEA and Managed Install (https://www.btwholesale.com/pages/static/Wholesale_Ethernet_GEA_and_Managed_Install/Wholesale_Ethernet_GEA_and_Managed_Install.htm). Iirc, this was what A&A were trying to provide (http://revk.www.me.uk/2012/07/fttc-etheway-yes-we-are-first.html?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter) (earlier this year) but the product was still "temperamental".  :-X
Title: Re: BT Latest
Post by: GunJack on September 21, 2012, 07:21:46 AM
How many people at home need such ridiculously high speeds anyway ?? What are they doing with it ?? 
Title: Re: BT Latest
Post by: SecTSys on September 21, 2012, 07:22:39 PM
 :D give you 2 guesses
a) downloading stuff
b) gaming
Title: Re: BT Latest
Post by: verkosh on September 24, 2012, 03:59:47 PM
Gaming is the main use for such high speeds.

If the rumours of the next gen consoles being mainly download based games are true then fast speeds will be needed to download around 20 gig games.

Not that isps will like such downloads.
Title: Re: BT Latest
Post by: Bald_Eagle1 on September 24, 2012, 05:39:09 PM
When I work from home, speed is very important.

I use a VPN connection to access the office servers, that is quite slow anyway.

The slower my connection, the slower the VPN throughput (probably pro-rata but I haven't investigated the exact ratio).

I really do see the difference when opening/saving files that are stored on the office server(s) from the rare occasions that my connection has synced at 33Mb to 35Mb, compared to the current & more usual 27Mb to 28.5Mb.

Also, the differences can be seen when just browsing the internet, although some of that could be due to latency as Interleaving is ON.
Title: Re: BT Latest
Post by: GunJack on September 30, 2012, 02:29:42 PM
Gaming is the main use for such high speeds.

If the rumours of the next gen consoles being mainly download based games are true then fast speeds will be needed to download around 20 gig games.

Not that isps will like such downloads.

I think any ISP which has such users on limited download packages will love it...think of what they'll charge for all those extra GBs ;)
Title: Re: BT Latest
Post by: SecTSys on October 03, 2012, 10:25:44 PM
LMAO - Yeah they will love the extra Income won't they, (Thank god i am on an Unlimited package! ;) )

Still as i run a home server system that has 2 different game servers running, and a Media server (thanks to Subsonic) I kinda need the upload speed more than the download!!!

I would love to see BT Offer a 50 / 50 Package, would make a huge difference to my whole network. the Download speed is not my concern as you can guess...

I have one server running Subsonic in a dedicated Fashion, and 3 minecraft worlds running, (1 open and 2 private ones)  Then the Other Server system i have set up is running a Dedicated MW3 Server. (Trust me that was a pain to set up!)

so yes as much as the download speed is great in regards to others connecting to my MW3 or Media servers over the Internet, my upload at 17 mbps gets rather cramped... and i often disable the Media server in order to game on my network,

What doesn't help i will admit is on The computer i use to play games or do my work on. I also have a Fully Encrypted FTP Server, and i am using this regularly for work and such. grabbing tools and that that i need when it comes to fixing computers if i am out and about on a job!

so One can begin to see why i would like to have a better upload speed offered by BT even if it means the download speed is sacrificed a little.

Title: Re: BT Latest
Post by: GunJack on October 07, 2012, 10:47:15 PM
flippin'eck SecTSys, you must be planning on running NASA with a setup like that  :lol:

p.s. your avatar reminded me to go listen to some old stuff again, had pretty much forgotten about Social Distortion so went and re-visited them a bit...still good after all these years ;)
Title: Re: BT Latest
Post by: SecTSys on October 08, 2012, 02:42:14 PM
lol no not NASA - just a damned good Data center :p still...

Glad my Avatar reminded you of good music!
Title: Re: BT Latest
Post by: snadge on October 11, 2012, 08:17:06 AM
I think it would be good if an ISP could offer a service where the user could assign/choose ANY of the total available bandwidth to be applied to the upload/download channels - e.g. if on 40mb capable package one could choose 30/10 or 20/20 - i know it wont ever happen, but would be good
Title: Re: BT Latest
Post by: burakkucat on October 11, 2012, 07:08:30 PM
I agree with you, snadge. I would be quite happy to purchase a set bandwidth which I could then divide between DS & US as the situation dictates.  :-X
Title: Re: BT Latest
Post by: UncleUB on October 11, 2012, 08:45:10 PM
So what actually is the ISP offer or deal as the thread is suppose to be about  ???
Title: Re: BT Latest
Post by: burakkucat on October 11, 2012, 10:47:09 PM
Looking back to the opening post to this thread, Uncle, I see --

Quote
http://www.productsandservices.bt.com/consumerProducts/displayTopic.do?topicId=25633&Infinity=yes

so they are rolling out the new 100mb FTTC connections (In some areas).

 ;)
Title: Re: BT Latest
Post by: UncleUB on October 12, 2012, 10:01:47 AM
Looking back to the opening post to this thread, Uncle, I see --

Quote
http://www.productsandservices.bt.com/consumerProducts/displayTopic.do?topicId=25633&Infinity=yes

so they are rolling out the new 100mb FTTC connections (In some areas).

 ;)


Oh right Mr Cat.......never really associated BT with offering good deals... ;D.


(https://forum.kitz.co.uk/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.speedtest.net%2Fresult%2F2236939334.png&hash=c9528b5a8bd517c8690e28b187c44b15) (http://www.speedtest.net)
Title: Re: BT Latest
Post by: Black Sheep on October 12, 2012, 01:56:36 PM
Looking back to the opening post to this thread, Uncle, I see --

Quote
http://www.productsandservices.bt.com/consumerProducts/displayTopic.do?topicId=25633&Infinity=yes

so they are rolling out the new 100mb FTTC connections (In some areas).

 ;)


Oh right Mr Cat.......never really associated BT with offering good deals... ;D.


(https://forum.kitz.co.uk/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.speedtest.net%2Fresult%2F2236939334.png&hash=c9528b5a8bd517c8690e28b187c44b15) (http://www.speedtest.net)

You won't, OfCOM make sure we can't.
Title: Re: BT Latest
Post by: SecTSys on October 12, 2012, 03:58:32 PM
Looking back to the opening post to this thread, Uncle, I see --

Quote
http://www.productsandservices.bt.com/consumerProducts/displayTopic.do?topicId=25633&Infinity=yes

so they are rolling out the new 100mb FTTC connections (In some areas).

 ;)


Oh right Mr Cat.......never really associated BT with offering good deals... ;D.


(https://forum.kitz.co.uk/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.speedtest.net%2Fresult%2F2236939334.png&hash=c9528b5a8bd517c8690e28b187c44b15) (http://www.speedtest.net)

You won't, OfCOM make sure we can't.

 :lol:
Title: Re: BT Latest
Post by: kitz on October 18, 2012, 05:31:36 PM
>>> You won't, OfCOM make sure we can't.

I couldnt help but laugh at the irony too  :D
Title: Re: BT Latest
Post by: SecTSys on January 03, 2013, 12:54:05 PM
Well here is the good news.

Just called up BT to cancel the sky sports 1 and 2 package i had and they offered me this as well

BT Infinity (Unlimited) £22.65 a month for 12 months - down from £26 a month
Bt Vision unlimited £12.50 a month.
and my Line rental as always £15.40 a month

So for those on the BT Service it might be worth making that phone call and seeing if you can get it cheaper via their Cancellation services.
Title: Re: BT Latest
Post by: kitz on January 05, 2013, 11:14:03 AM
Retentions are sometimes often able to pull an extra deal out of the bag. 
Glad you got a deal you were happy with :)
Title: Re: BT Latest
Post by: SecTSys on January 09, 2013, 03:02:55 PM
yeah so am I - the bloke on the other end of the phone said call back again in 11 months time they may be able to offer me another one then!  ;)