Kitz Forum

Broadband Related => Broadband Hardware => Topic started by: UncleUB on June 06, 2012, 09:48:38 AM

Title: Homeplugs
Post by: UncleUB on June 06, 2012, 09:48:38 AM
Hi all  :)

I have been giving these some thought since I bought my Panasonic Smart tv.

At present my computer is upstairs in the spare bedroom along with the BT master socket and router.The tv is in living room.Is it just a case of running an ethernet cable from router to homeplug upstairs and from tv to homeplug downstairs?

I have also read that it is not advisable to plug homeplugs into extension leads..is that correct. Downstairs wouldn't be a problem but upstairs I would need a long(ish) ethernet cable to run from the router directly to the wall socket.Probably would be about 5m.Does using a long ethernet cable have any detrimental on your connection.
In a few weeks I am going to switch isp's,...Going onto the Digital Region project so I can get a FTTC connection.Once up and running I am wanting to be able to download and stream movies and use iplayer etc.

And finally can someone recommend/tell me what I actually need  :)
Title: Re: Homeplugs
Post by: roseway on June 06, 2012, 10:47:35 AM
At present my computer is upstairs in the spare bedroom along with the BT master socket and router.The tv is in living room.Is it just a case of running an ethernet cable from router to homeplug upstairs and from tv to homeplug downstairs?

Yes, exactly.

Quote
I have also read that it is not advisable to plug homeplugs into extension leads..is that correct. Downstairs wouldn't be a problem but upstairs I would need a long(ish) ethernet cable to run from the router directly to the wall socket.Probably would be about 5m.Does using a long ethernet cable have any detrimental on your connection.

5m  of ethernet cable will have no detrimental effect at all, and would be the best solution. 5m of mains extension lead will degrade the signal strength to some extent, although the homeplug connection would still work OK (most probably).

For TV and streaming media purposes you don't need the very high speed devices - the regular 85 Mbps types will be more than fast enough. I would recommend Devolo, although you can get cheaper ones. Make sure that they have encryption capability.


Title: Re: Homeplugs
Post by: UncleUB on June 06, 2012, 11:05:52 AM
Thanks Eric  :)

I looked on E Buyer at these

http://www.ebuyer.com/231266-d-link-200mbps-powerline-twin-pack-dhp-307av-b

Quote
Please note: networking components such as Powerline adapters require that all adapters run at the same Powerline speed to remain compatible, for example only 200Mbps adapters with communicate with other 200Mbps Powerline components. However, all Powerline products will connect to any switch or router Ethernet port. Powerline adapters can be used with extension leads (except surge protection ones), and will work across different ring mains so long as they share a common fuse box. For further information or advice, please contact us on solutions@ebuyer.com.

I guess they will work,but as you say could do so with a degraded signal strength
Title: Re: Homeplugs
Post by: roseway on June 06, 2012, 11:40:09 AM
I don't see any reference to encryption with those D-Link devices (they may have it though). I really think you need encryption, otherwise you may find your neighbours sharing your internet connection without even realising they're doing it.
Title: Re: Homeplugs
Post by: UncleUB on June 06, 2012, 12:36:59 PM
I don't see any reference to encryption with those D-Link devices (they may have it though). I really think you need encryption, otherwise you may find your neighbours sharing your internet connection without even realising they're doing it.

Is this what you mean Eric

Quote
Furthermore, D-Links Powerline Homeplug AV implements 128-bit AES encryption for securing your connection and keeping your data safe from intruders. You can set this up easily via the button on the side of the adapter.
Title: Re: Homeplugs
Post by: roseway on June 06, 2012, 12:42:39 PM
Yes, that's it. I missed that bit. :-[
Title: Re: Homeplugs
Post by: UncleUB on June 06, 2012, 12:47:34 PM
Yes, that's it. I missed that bit. :-[

No worries Eric. :)

I saw the word encryption but wasn't sure if that was what you meant  :)
Title: Re: Homeplugs
Post by: broadstairs on June 06, 2012, 01:27:42 PM
I have been using a couple of the Devolo dLan 200 AVMini units for a while now with a wireless access point on the remote end and it works flawlessly so I'd recommend Devolo.

Stuart
Title: Re: Homeplugs
Post by: burakkucat on June 06, 2012, 10:15:30 PM
Just a quick comment, Uncle.

I wonder if you understand that the manufacturer's of "Homeplugs" are recommending that one does not use a mains extension lead and that recommendation is not applicable to Ethernet cables?  :-\
Title: Re: Homeplugs
Post by: silversurfer44 on June 07, 2012, 08:24:42 AM
Whilst it is recommended to NOT use homeplugs with extension leads, I have been using a set of three, two plugged into mains extensions for a number of years. Two of them are Develo and one is Netgear. All working quite happily together and using encrypted transmissions between them and the main router.

UnclueUB, don't go for the cheapest you can get as they will fail. I know to my cost. I bought a pair of Advent when I first started with them and they both failed with a blown capacitor.

I don't know about performance on fibre networks, but I certainly can watch HD transmissions from the likes of NASA without problem. Having said that there is only me using the connection, so if there was more than on person using it it may be different.
Title: Re: Homeplugs
Post by: UncleUB on June 07, 2012, 09:05:29 AM
Thanks B-Cat and Colin  :)

I can get away without using extension leads.The living room is ok because there is a socket behind the tv.The spare bedroom where my computer/BT master socket/router is can be sorted with a 5 to 6 m ethernet cable,as the socket is the other side of the bedroom(at present I run and extension from there to the computer where I have a 6 socket Belkin surge protected extension.

@ Colin,I had see on Amazon TP link ones (a pair for 31.99)

http://www.amazon.co.uk/TP-Link-TL-PA211KIT-200Mbps-Powerline-Ethernet/dp/B004INVKP4/ref=pd_ybh_1

A pair of D-Link ones for 32.99

http://www.amazon.co.uk/D-Link-DHP-307AV-PowerLine-Homeplug-Network/dp/B003L78F6U/ref=sr_1_1?s=computers&ie=UTF8&qid=1339056111&sr=1-1

And the more expensive Devolo ones 69.19.....are they worth the extra at the side of the other two?

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Devolo-AVplus-Starter-Pass-Thru-Filter/dp/B002WRQV7K/ref=sr_1_4?s=computers&ie=UTF8&qid=1339056185&sr=1-4

I have just guessed that the above posted items are what I need......am I on the right lines there?
Title: Re: Homeplugs
Post by: silversurfer44 on June 07, 2012, 09:40:27 AM
 :o I say they have gone up in price, I don't remember paying that much.
I would not use them on any surge protected extension as the the protection could degrade the signal from unit to unit. That's probably what the gurus mean when saying they should not be used on extensions. :-\

One other thing to think about is where the Ethernet lead plugs into the homeplug. With the Develo this is at the bottom of the unit. All others that I have seen plug in the side, even my Netgear one plugs in the side. This means that 2 sockets for the one unit. It is impossible to use the socket at the side where the cable is. Of course if there is nothing to be plugged into a socket at the side and there is little clearance at the bottom, of the unit then a side Ethernet socket might be what you need.

As things are at the moment it is cheaper to by a pair rather than a single unit. That's why I suggested not to buy the cheapest if you see what I mean. The reason is if one fails, you would need to by another pair as single units are hard to come by. ???

The only ones in your links that I know personally are the Develo units. Reliable, take up one socket each and come with software for setting up ones own encryption code if one wants to.

Pass thru filters I know nothing about so I couldn't comment on.

I trust I am being helpful here.
Title: Re: Homeplugs
Post by: UncleUB on June 07, 2012, 11:38:13 AM
Quote
One other thing to think about is where the Ethernet lead plugs into the homeplug. With the Develo this is at the bottom of the unit. All others that I have seen plug in the side, even my Netgear one plugs in the side.


Hi Colin

The TP Link ones definitely have the ethernet underneath

Not sure about the D Link ones I posted,but the D Link pass through ones have the ethernet on the side,but as you will see by the video it is above the socket line.

http://www.dlink.co.uk/cs/Satellite?c=Product_C&childpagename=DLinkEurope-GB%2FDLProductCarouselMultiple&cid=1197389564612&p=1197318962342&packedargs=ParentPageID%3D1197318962321%26locale%3D1195806691854%26packedargs%3DProductParentID%253D1197376488476&pagename=DLinkEurope-GB%2FDLWrapper
Title: Re: Homeplugs
Post by: silversurfer44 on June 07, 2012, 11:58:29 AM
The dlink ones do look very interesting, especially with the built in socket. :)
Title: Re: Homeplugs
Post by: roseway on June 07, 2012, 12:55:58 PM
Yes, I agree with that, and the fact that the ethernet connection is on the side isn't an issue in this case, because it stands above the neighbouring plugs.
Title: Re: Homeplugs
Post by: guest on June 07, 2012, 01:41:38 PM
Its probably worth pointing out that upstairs and downstairs will be on seperate ring mains in most UK houses and as such extension blocks are unlikely to be the limiting factor for throughput - that will be the consumer unit (fusebox). The main reason extension blocks are an issue is the wiring between the wall plug and the extension block - lots of twisted wire in there, no solid conductor.

I won't have "homeplugs" in the house but I know that's not an option for a lot of you.
Title: Re: Homeplugs
Post by: burakkucat on June 07, 2012, 06:30:15 PM
At the most fundamental level with regards to networking, I am firmly on rizla's side. If the connection cannot be made with a run of Ethernet cable, use wireless. If wireless is not satisfactory, then consider Home Plugs.

Obviously those regulars who do use Home Plugs have considered all their options and have made the most appropriate choice for their own situation.  :)
Title: Re: Homeplugs
Post by: silversurfer44 on June 07, 2012, 07:14:29 PM
Quote
If the connection cannot be made with a run of Ethernet cable, use wireless. If wireless is not satisfactory, then consider Home Plugs.
and that was the exact reasoning I went through when I decided. There was on other factor that came and that was being able to move my PC desk around as required. Wireless is not very good without line of site of the router, there are so many around here that finding a decent channel to work with is  :thumbdown:
Happy with my homeplugs. Say no more. :)
Title: Re: Homeplugs
Post by: HPsauce on June 07, 2012, 07:21:47 PM
What's the reason for disliking homeplugs?
Title: Re: Homeplugs
Post by: burakkucat on June 07, 2012, 09:01:14 PM
No dislike on my part, HP. Just a consideration of the efficiency of throughput. A wired Ethernet cable will always be at the top of the list.  :)
Title: Re: Homeplugs
Post by: HPsauce on June 08, 2012, 12:18:13 AM
Ah, OK, so it's "horses for courses".  :graduate:

I ask because I have a client where Homeplugs seem to be the "right" answer. Older large property, beautifully decorated (Cat5e cables a no-no!), VERY thick walls, out in the country - nearest neighbour over 400m away!
Title: Re: Homeplugs
Post by: burakkucat on June 08, 2012, 01:16:40 AM
I'm with you and fully understand!  :thumbs:

All options should be considered and the best taken for the particular circumstances.

I'm sitting here, in The Cattery, about four feet away from my 2Wire 2700HG modem router but have connected to it, from my laptop system, via an Ethernet cable. Why don't I use a wireless connection? Because my near neighbour, Gordon, has his BT Home Hub 3.0A about eight feet away and its wireless signal is quite significant. So i use wired at home and wireless when visiting family, when "out and about", etc.
Title: Re: Homeplugs
Post by: guest on June 08, 2012, 09:52:31 AM
What's the reason for disliking homeplugs?

They splatter HF noise all over the place which is a direct consequence of using wiring never designed for data transfer. The somewhat unique way domestic mains wiring is done in the UK (ring rather than star) exacerbates this and causes all of them to fail CE electromagnetic interference standards.

Ofcom should have banned the sale of them in the UK due to this but BT had already flooded the market with (very) cheap units and as Ofcom is about as much use as a chocolate teapot when it comes to enforcing anything then here we are. If you dig around a bit you'll find an Ofcom report which basically says exactly that - they tested all the models on the market and they all failed CE limits. Ofcom "buried" the report rather than act upon it.
Title: Re: Homeplugs
Post by: UncleUB on June 08, 2012, 11:15:51 AM
Well all I can say is reading various posts in many forums,there seems to be many,many people out there who are very happy with the performance they receive via homeplugs  :)
Title: Re: Homeplugs
Post by: silversurfer44 on June 08, 2012, 11:18:25 AM
If any appliance that connects to the mains power supply fails the CE standards is the said appliance allowed to carry the CE mark?
If this is correct then most certainly homeplugs do not fail the standards, regardless of OFCOM.
Title: Re: Homeplugs
Post by: UncleUB on June 08, 2012, 11:22:05 AM
I have also been recommended Solwise homeplugs..UK company and from what I have been told excellent technical/customer support


http://www.solwise.co.uk/net-powerline-intro.htm
Title: Re: Homeplugs
Post by: guest on June 08, 2012, 12:12:40 PM
Oh they work OK UncleUB, that's not my issue with them.

@silversurfer - they apparently don't fail the CE standards for radiated emissions on star mains wiring (ie the rest of Europe) but they do on ring mains wiring (ie the UK). BT knew full well that they failed too so they supplied millions of them to BT Broadband customers to present Ofcom with a fait accompli. Phorm showed that BT has scant regard for rules where money is concerned and Ofcom were run by the Labour stooge by then so they gambled correctly.

Arguably they fail conducted emissions too but that's easier to argue your way out of as arguably the affected device is failing too. Radiated emissions is clear-cut though.
Title: Re: Homeplugs
Post by: waltergmw on July 09, 2012, 11:56:18 PM
Gentlefolk,

Upon one occasion in a large house I discovered that the 80 Mbps version worked where faster ones did not.

Another trick I've seen done where bottom entry was obstructed was to turn a 13 A socket up side down.

Kind regards,
Walter