Kitz Forum

Computers & Hardware => PC Hardware => Topic started by: kitz on June 05, 2012, 11:49:15 AM

Title: New PC builds.
Post by: kitz on June 05, 2012, 11:49:15 AM
Out of curiosity does anyone know any PC manufacturers that will let you put your own o/s on their builds (ie refund for unused win7 home licence).

Kitz is currently getting more than a bit concerned about her 4y/o 'modified' Medion PC which is on 24/7 :(
I think my days of builds are long gone..  and having just had a look at individual part prices, they seem to have shot up.   Cases alone can be very expensive and my past few Medions have been because the package is cheaper than what I could have built myself for.

Anyhow I have a brand new licence for Win7 pro that I bought a while ago which Id like to use rather than Win7 home that seems to come on most prebuilt.   My problem is I need a fairly decent spec PC and a brief cost of some parts at Scan seems to show silly figures (despite the fact that Im so out of the loop these days not even sure what Im looking for or if I have the confidence or time) to buy the right parts and build.

Ideally I'd love to be able to choose what bits I need, yet if you look at the likes of Dell..  they call customisation choosing which security software you put on as customisation, rather than say increasing the size of HDD :(

*dilemma*

Title: Re: New PC builds.
Post by: toulouse on June 05, 2012, 12:04:51 PM
Hiya Kitz,

You could try a company called Novatech (guess what the web site is called !!). I use them quite a bit, and while I just cannot be bothered looking around for the cheapest prices, I do think their prices are quite reasonable.

HTH


toulouse

 
Title: Re: New PC builds.
Post by: kitz on June 05, 2012, 12:20:17 PM
Thank you vm for the quick reply.

Just noticed they have a 'bare bones' section..   now that is interesting..  and the prices do seem quite reasonable.
TBH the one thing I hate about own builds is putting the processor on - theres many a clip Ive struggled with in the past as Im not very heavy handed - Im fine with the rest of the stuff.

/off to have a more detailed look :)
Title: Re: New PC builds.
Post by: roseway on June 05, 2012, 12:32:56 PM
Have a look at EBuyer. (http://www.ebuyer.com/store/Computer/cat/Desktop-PC)

They do PCs without operating systems at very reasonable prices.
Title: Re: New PC builds.
Post by: toulouse on June 05, 2012, 12:40:35 PM
Just a quick follow up - I've bought several motherboard / CPU combos from Novatech, and they actually install the CPU and heatsink for you, so no worries there.

Good luck

toulouse
Title: Re: New PC builds.
Post by: kitz on June 05, 2012, 01:16:15 PM
Thanks vm guys... getting some good info here :)

>> They do PCs without operating systems at very reasonable prices.

Unless Ive got the link (http://www.ebuyer.com/search?page=1&sort=popularity&limit=10&store=5&cat=191&filterca16=None) wrong - their choice of no o/s is quite limited and the processor spec not quite what I wanted
Looking for an i5 I think if I can.

However they do a barebone that would support an i5 (http://www.ebuyer.com/286989-asus-v6-p8h61elx-s1155-h61-barebone-90pbcuaa310000agcez) that looks quite interesting.

Ive noticed it used the Intel H61 chipset mobo which is the same as the Novatech ones.. and Id just been looking at the specs of the H61, which seems pretty good from the reviews..  ok its not the bees knees but its certainly reasonable enough for what I need :)

I know its probably a girly thing..  but I quite like that case (yeah yeah I know its what inside that counts)  :lol:


---------------

>>> I've bought several motherboard / CPU combos from Novatech, and they actually install the CPU and heatsink for you, so no worries there.

That really is a plus point..  Is it only me that struggles with this.. or have I just been unlucky in the past that it sometimes needs brute force..  and Im scared of breaking something :-X
Granted its been a while now since Ive built..  but that is the area which always worries me, cause last time I had to get someone with stronger fingers than mine to fit the heatsink :/

----------------------

Thanks again guys youve given me a new line of leads to follow up on..   as I must have spent hours looking at the wrong places before. :/

I need to do some costing up of prices.. then approach Bank of MaD for a temp loan.   I knew my system was getting on a bit, and just realised I havent had a PC as long as this one (OK its had several new bits added), but since last night the 'knew it was coming' has now become 'need to do something soon'  :(


Title: Re: New PC builds.
Post by: kitz on June 05, 2012, 01:31:33 PM
oh just seen this (http://www.ebuyer.com/272101-asus-v-series-v8-p8h67e-s1155-h67-barebone-90pbc9aa310000agckz) which I like even better with the H67 chipset....  hmmmm

anyhow.. back to costing up parts..  and whether Novatechs fitting of the CPU and heatsink will clinch the deal.
At least now I feel less over whelmed than I have been for he past 24hrs :)
Title: Re: New PC builds.
Post by: toulouse on June 05, 2012, 01:58:23 PM
Talking of old PCs - this one is a bit like Triggers (Only Fools & Horses) old broom. He allegedly had the same broom for about 20 years or so, and he only had 3 different broom heads and 2 or 3 handles - CLASSIC

I think I bought this Packard Bell iMedia 1280 with Windows XP Home in around 2005/6. Since that time, I have upgraded the memory, replaced the HD and CD Writer, and more recently replaced the CPU and on board graphics - and the thing is still going strong. There's no longer any support from the manufacturer, but I could care less. I also have another 8 machines (mainly purchased at various stages from Novatech) running Fedora 16 Linux mainly used to run various programs as part of the World Community Grid project as introduced by AdrianH ??? some time ago. I've also just received my Raspberry Pi, so I'm just starting to play around with that at the moment. Isn't technology wonderful.
Title: Re: New PC builds.
Post by: kitz on June 05, 2012, 02:21:02 PM
>>> Talking of old PCs - this one is a bit like Triggers (Only Fools & Horses) old broom.

hahaha I used to have one of those (my first build in about 98/99) that was so revamped so many times I think at the end there was probably only the case that was still the original..  I had it running RH as a play machine at one point..  but I think some of the parts are now in a PC that I built for my dad several years ago, but that case is still in my loft  :lol:

Once upon a time I used to have several machines, but somewhere along the lines I started buying the Aldi/Medion specials..  and adding extra bits to them as needed, but now Im just down to this machine and the ipad... so starting a new build project fills me a bit with dread...  as I havent a clue these days on what is the best CPU and compatibility of parts...

I havent got much further on this so far as Ive just got off the phone from my parents.. so I'll possibily spend the rest of the day doing research on things like graphics cards etc.   Unfort I'm busy Wed, Thurs and Fri... so best get my finger out and do some serious looking now.
Title: Re: New PC builds.
Post by: HPsauce on June 05, 2012, 03:06:44 PM
Out of curiosity does anyone know any PC manufacturers that will let you put your own o/s on their builds
As mentioned above Novatech are worth checking out.

The "work/admin" system I'm posting this from is one of their "bare bones" systems that I bought a few years back now (March 2009!) in preparation for W7.
Currently mirrored RAID, dual-boot XP and W7x64 (bought cheaply around launch time) 4GB RAM and various bits and bobs.
Processor is actually "only" an AMD dual-core (2.7GHz Athlon 7750 Black) on a FoxConn A74MX mobo using onboard graphics (ATI Radeon 2100) but it's fine.
I think the core "box" was under 200 delivered.
Title: Re: New PC builds.
Post by: roseway on June 05, 2012, 03:43:04 PM
Some things to keep in mind:

- Processor speed is of comparatively little importance, so don't choose the fastest processor in the range, because it will run hotter, making the fan run faster and noisier, for little increase in real-world performance.

- If you want over 4 GB of memory (which you probably do) you will need a 64-bit OS (unless 32-bit Windows supports PAE, which I doubt).

- If you care about noise, get a motherboard with onboard graphics, or choose a passively cooled graphics card. The performance for anything other than top-end gaming will be more than adequate IMO.
Title: Re: New PC builds.
Post by: kitz on June 05, 2012, 04:14:47 PM
Still at the spoilt for choice stage and not done a full costing yet, but after preliminary talks with 'the bank'...   this seems decentish

(http://images.novatech.co.uk/bb-34504a.jpg)

http://www.novatech.co.uk/products/barebones/bb-34504a.html

Intel Core i5 3450 Processor
2 x 2GB DDR3 1333Mhz Memory
ATX Tower Case With 400w PSU
Intel B75 Chipset Motherboard
274.99


At first glance, it seems to be the same as this but with case.
(http://images.novatech.co.uk/novatech-mbb-34504a_extra1.jpg)
http://www.novatech.co.uk/products/motherboardbundles/mbb-34504a.html
249.98



The only thing with that is I was perhaps hoping to get 6 GB of RAM...  and note that it only has 2 memory slots.

I have Win 7 Pro - which includes the 64-bit DVD - just opened the box to make sure.
Title: Re: New PC builds.
Post by: toulouse on June 05, 2012, 04:30:19 PM
That's the trouble these days, there's just so much to choose from.

Maybe you need to sit down and think about it for a bit, in particular what you really want it to be able to do. Whatever you decide on will be fine, I'm sure.

I'm not really helping much, am I ? ;)
Title: Re: New PC builds.
Post by: GigabitEthernet on June 05, 2012, 04:41:45 PM
Looking at the blue USB ports, I presume the motherboard has USB 3.0?
Title: Re: New PC builds.
Post by: kitz on June 05, 2012, 07:34:39 PM
Looking at the blue USB ports, I presume the motherboard has USB 3.0?

Yes
2 x USB 3.0/2.0 ports
4 x USB 2.0/1.1 ports
Title: Re: New PC builds.
Post by: kitz on June 05, 2012, 07:42:23 PM
That's the trouble these days, there's just so much to choose from.

Maybe you need to sit down and think about it for a bit, in particular what you really want it to be able to do. Whatever you decide on will be fine, I'm sure.

I'm not really helping much, am I ? ;)

haha I think Im now in head spin.   I may ring up Novatech and see if they would upgrade the RAM, as all their barebones only seem to be 4GB.

Not sure when I'll get chance to do that as Im out all day for each of the next 3 days for various things :/
Title: Re: New PC builds.
Post by: tonyappuk on June 05, 2012, 11:03:14 PM
I would endorse the recommendation for Novatech. I bought a bare bones from them in 2008 which I was very pleased with. Due to my hamfistedness I b*******ed the motherboard/processor whilst changing drives and got a motherboard bundle from Novatech in late 2009. Just 10 days ago my latest motherboard/processor expired ( the silly with the maintain 5v supply and the onboard LAN I described a few weeks back was really a warning!) and I had to buy another M/B bundle from (you guessed it) Novatech. I have now reinstalled XP (I'm an old fogy) and am almost back to normal. Like many others I suspect, I struggled to transfer all my data from 2 of my drives which were IDE and the new board has only SATA. Got there in the end but a bit of a wind up. But just to repeat, Kitz, I have been very pleased with Novatech and they are always very helpful on the phone and the bare bones just work.
Tony
Title: Re: New PC builds.
Post by: kitz on June 06, 2012, 05:10:44 PM
Thanks everyone for your comments.

Update:-
Not had chance to do much today, but I have just rang Novatech, who dont currently do any barebones systems with >4GB of RAM.
There is an option for them to change configuration of anything...  but believe it or not they charge 60, so in that case it would be cheaper to buy new memory and bin the old.   What I did find out however that this 60 fee is for any changes more or less regardless of what they are.. so in fact for 60 they would put together and build a system of your choice.

Erics comment about graphics cards started to make me think about something last night too..  and that is I need a graphics card that will support dual monitors...  believe it or not after having a quick look around not all do, and even some of the newer cards are 1 DVI and 1 HDMI..  This area is something of importance to me.. so I started looking at graphic card specs about 10 mins ago.. and ended up at SCAN when checking out some specs....  which has now led me on to my latest discovery............

Scan will configure/put together any package you want (I didnt previously know about http://3xs.scan.co.uk) and whilst browsing I noticed something very interesting..   a choice when it comes to the O/S including a refund if you dont want them to install the Windows 7 Home OEM..  So Ive just rang them up..   They will install Windows Home/Pro/Enterprise, but if I use my own registration key for Windows 7 pro..  then they will give me an immediate refund of 59-70 deducted from the final bill.

Like I say I havent got much further and am still plowing my way through the Novatech site trying to cost all the parts, but I thought it was definitely worth mentioning what SCAN offer, and I may have a play later if I get time to see what their custom builds come out like.

Title: Re: New PC builds.
Post by: tonyappuk on June 06, 2012, 08:01:02 PM
The best of British, Kitz. I now discover that the Gigabyte motherboard in my lovely new set up cannot see my Atheros built in Lan in Linux. Oh the joy of new builds!
Tony
Title: Re: New PC builds.
Post by: BritBrat on June 08, 2012, 08:55:41 AM
Do  you have a local Novatech shop as they built one of mine to order and put the operating system on it that I gave them.

I bought all the parts from them and let them put it together and picked it up a few days later, I did knock down the build price but it was only about 50 and I thought that was worth it.

Why not build your own?

You do know Windows 7 DVD's have all the version on the disc and it depends what key is used as to what gets installed.
Title: Re: New PC builds.
Post by: guest on June 08, 2012, 07:41:04 PM
Depending on what you want to do with the machine then take a look at www.tranquilpc.co.uk

I have one of their home servers, lovely piece of kit, especially with 8TB of deduped redundant storage. Uses maybe 80W maximum, more like 40W in normal usage.

Provided you're not a gamer you'll find something there thats nice, not cheap but very good build quality. They're quite happy to remove the OS - or if you ask nicely they'll put a Linux distro on for you.

My homebuilding days are over too - I can't justify it as I don't have any trade accounts active now. Even if I did the difference in price is quite often razor-thin for desktops. These days I use an Alienware lappie for personal use, expensive but I got 4 years next-day onsite warranty and I feel its not going to make it that far without a catastrophic failure ;)
Title: Re: New PC builds.
Post by: asbokid on June 08, 2012, 09:44:46 PM
Are you set on a Core i5?  I'm out of date with things but the i7-2600k used to be the flagship CPU for discerning retail customers.  AMD's Bulldozer series have turned out disappointing so far.  On a point of principle, it's nice to back the underdog (AMD vs Intel,  Man Utd vs Liverpool, etc). But when it comes to CPUs, buying AMD feels like cutting off the nose to spite the face.
Title: Re: New PC builds.
Post by: kitz on June 09, 2012, 11:45:34 AM
Ive not had chance to get any further with this..  I think I said earlier in the thread that I had a lot of stuff on each of the past few days..  and indeed its been manic.  I didnt get home till late last night and Im shattered today and need to do some domestic stuff too :/

>> Do  you have a local Novatech shop as they built one of mine to order and put the operating system on it that I gave them.

Unfort no..  but I think the 60 fee mentioned earlier is any changes in config from changing the specs on the bare-bones up to a complete build.  They then do free shipping .

>> Why not build your own?

Many years ago I used to, but as rizla says the margin started to get thin.. especially when Aldi started doing the Medion specials which had specs cheaper than I could build for - despite having had a (now lapsed) account at SCAN.

The only thing that does concern me about own build systems is that I struggle with the CPU/heatsink clips and on my last build had to get someone else with stronger fingers to do that :/



>> take a look at www.tranquilpc.co.uk

Thanks will add that one to the list too.:)

>>Are you set on a Core i5?

No - that was minimum spec - I'd love an i7 but it depends on overall cost/budget, after speaking with 'the bank' a couple of days ago, I have a little bit more to play with...  but at the end of the day its got to be paid back so I cant go silly.

One of my other 'want' areas now is a solid state system drive.

From when I last had chance to look I got so far as putting stuff into a spreadsheet and Im now tweaking bits..  Theres not too much difference between the prices on Scan/Novatech... some cheaper at one and vice versa, normally speaking of pennies...
Aside from a case I like, which is cheaper at Novatech.

At this point, it looks like I may be doing a own configuration system at the likes of Novatech or SCAN.

The 2 areas which Im still umming and ahhing at are 1) the graphics card  2)The case.


Yeah believe it or not..  the girl in me is putting a lot of decision making into finding a case that I actually like, because so many of them are damn ugly and I want something 'nice' to look at on my desk. 

As regards case, I have to bear in mind that I keep my network switch on top of the PC.. and I have a cat that loves to sleep on top of the PC or router..  therefore a case which is open/grilled at the top would become a dust/fur magnet.

I like cases which look like this
http://www.novatech.co.uk/products/components/cases/cases/rc-550-kkn1.html
but dunno yet if the budget will stretch that far.   
Title: Re: New PC builds.
Post by: kitz on June 09, 2012, 11:57:43 AM
hmmm..  and on that note just rang up novatech to confirm the situation with own system requirements + regarding my own o/s..... and they were a bit more arssy about it than scan were... cause Im not purchasing it from them and implying that I should or not covered by warranty ??? 
Anyhow the bottom line is they do build and supply without o/s.
Title: Re: New PC builds.
Post by: tonyappuk on June 09, 2012, 01:50:49 PM
Don't know whether it's just Novatech but looking at the motherboard bundle I bought on 28th. May for 149.99 I noticed it is now 159.98 so their prices are going up.
Tony
Title: Re: New PC builds.
Post by: BritBrat on June 09, 2012, 04:49:20 PM
I like the Antec cases but I was thinking of getting a Factal Design.
Title: Re: New PC builds.
Post by: kitz on June 12, 2012, 05:57:01 PM
I am hopefully (finally) getting somewhere with this..  its taken a lot longer than I thought, because Ive been doing a bit of digging and research and trying to make sure I get the right parts within my budget.  I think Im pretty happy now with what I want and the spec isnt too bad  ;D

This PC flipped again last night - I think its overheating despite having had additional fans and a Zalman CPU cooler.  It was the HDDs overheating and one of the drives being fried last year that caused problems with the system drive too.   Its been a good PC though for the past 4 years, but sadly I think its time has come :(

Scan and Novatech come out much of a muchness on price, but scan are currently doing a bundle on that case I like, so that looks like it may swing it for me, just rang up scan to confirm a few things and emailed in my wish list... so if this comes back at the agreed price with a bit of a discount then I think we are in business.

>>> I like the Antec cases but I was thinking of getting a Factal Design.

I like Antec too...  as to the Factal ones, I dont really like the mesh effect. 
Ive had to be a bit cautious of what I choose.  A lot of the cases have grills/vents on top, which is a bit of a no when its where Zigs like to sleep.  The mesh will also bit a bit of a fur magnet so Ive had to pass on anything that has anything other than a plain top.
Title: Re: New PC builds.
Post by: kitz on June 12, 2012, 06:15:56 PM
PS.. decided to splash out on a SSD.  Still uming over a Cosair or whether to save a tenner and go for OCZ which seems to get good reviews too.

The prices seem to have come down now and SATA ones have increased slightly due to the floods last year.   I know the storage space on them isnt as much, but since my system drive atm only uses about 45GB..  and its the storage and back up drives that use most of the space...  I thought wth and may as well go for it with a SSD system drive and a 1TB storage drive...  which can be backed up to the 1TB drive in the NAS.
Title: Re: New PC builds.
Post by: asbokid on June 12, 2012, 11:38:48 PM
I dont really like the mesh effect. 
Ive had to be a bit cautious of what I choose.  A lot of the cases have grills/vents on top, which is a bit of a no when its where Zigs like to sleep.  The mesh will also bit a bit of a fur magnet so Ive had to pass on anything that has anything other than a plain top.

What about pigeon spikes (http://www.google.com/search?q=pigeon+spikes&tbm=isch)?

cheers, a
Title: Re: New PC builds.
Post by: kitz on June 12, 2012, 11:58:31 PM
hahahaha  :lol:

Actually I like it when he sleeps there, because his alternative is the keyboard....  which makes it kinda hard to type :D
Title: Re: New PC builds.
Post by: kitz on June 13, 2012, 03:55:25 PM
System decided and price agreed @ Scan.

Blown the budget a tiny bit. ::)
Getting the coolermaster case bundle and an ivy bridge system as there isnt much price difference (thought there was until the guy at scan pointed out one of their price deals) Not the highest spec but still a good one.
Decided on the OCZ SSD and they are going to install my own copy of Win7 Pro FoC when they test the system.
Title: Re: New PC builds.
Post by: roseway on June 13, 2012, 03:58:31 PM
That sounds good. Have fun. :)
Title: Re: New PC builds.
Post by: kitz on June 13, 2012, 04:18:55 PM
>> Have fun.

Haha the fun will start when I try and move everything over and get used to a new O/S.  The new PC wont be ready for about a week.. and then I will make a joint visit to my bro's and pick it up.

Its taken me a while to decide what to get as I was trying to research VFM parts and a compromise of quality v price.  Ive gone over budget by about 60 but I think Ive got it about covered for a decent spec PC and the case I liked which should be quiet and cool :)

At the end of the day there wasnt much price difference on the basics at novatech and scan.. it could have gone either way.  Scan swung it because of the coolermaster bundle .. and the fact that their guy was much more approachable to making system changes and cutting a deal. 
Title: Re: New PC builds.
Post by: tonyappuk on June 13, 2012, 06:23:44 PM
Hope your transfer of "stuff" goes smoothly. At least you won't have the puzzle of linux but I don't envy you going with Win 7.
Tony
Title: Re: New PC builds.
Post by: burakkucat on June 14, 2012, 01:47:42 AM
Quote
. . . and the case I liked which should be quiet and cool :)

You have considered, as a result of the latter, that Ziggy might decide the keyboard is definitely now the best "sleeping-spot"?  :-\
Title: Re: New PC builds.
Post by: guest on June 14, 2012, 01:36:38 PM

Haha the fun will start when I try and move everything over and get used to a new O/S. 

Ummm Windows 7 is a new OS to you? What the hell have you been using up until now?
Title: Re: New PC builds.
Post by: kitz on June 14, 2012, 07:08:15 PM

Haha the fun will start when I try and move everything over and get used to a new O/S. 

Ummm Windows 7 is a new OS to you? What the hell have you been using up until now?

lmao..  yeah I know...  its been a while since I got a new PC and kept adding/replacing bits to this one for the past 4 years :(
Title: Re: New PC builds.
Post by: kitz on June 14, 2012, 07:55:37 PM

You have considered, as a result of the latter, that Ziggy might decide the keyboard is definitely now the best "sleeping-spot"?  :-\

ummm  I hope not :/
mind you I probably put the network switch on top of the PC so that may attract him...  he likes sleeping on routers and switches too.
Title: Re: New PC builds.
Post by: guest on June 14, 2012, 09:01:15 PM

Haha the fun will start when I try and move everything over and get used to a new O/S. 

Ummm Windows 7 is a new OS to you? What the hell have you been using up until now?

lmao..  yeah I know...  its been a while since I got a new PC and kept adding/replacing bits to this one for the past 4 years :(

Ah Vista then :D Nobody like admitting that :P
Title: Re: New PC builds.
Post by: guest on June 14, 2012, 09:03:25 PM

You have considered, as a result of the latter, that Ziggy might decide the keyboard is definitely now the best "sleeping-spot"?  :-\

ummm  I hope not :/
mind you I probably put the network switch on top of the PC so that may attract him...  he likes sleeping on routers and switches too.

You could just get a 20W mat (for plants usually) and put it on a timer ;)
Title: Re: New PC builds.
Post by: kitz on June 14, 2012, 09:56:43 PM
>> Ah Vista then :D Nobody like admitting that

Nope...  ok then..  I did have Vista on here (and another machine when they were new)..  but I hated it so went back to XP Pro.

I did buy a copy of Win7 Pro with the intention of putting it on this machine but never did -
It takes much less time to build a PC than re-install all the stuff I have on here and not a task I relished doing if there was no reason to.

Hence me having a brand spanking new copy and not wanting to have to pay for another new licence when I already have one.
Title: Re: New PC builds.
Post by: kitz on June 14, 2012, 10:02:02 PM
Re Ziggy sleeping on top of the PC - I really dont mind him doing that -
It keeps him happy cause Im near, but hes not 'in my face'... nor at my feet where Im likely to run him over if I move the chair.  - Lost count of the times I did that with Zac/Chaz -  let me tell you it doesnt make for nice hearing.  :'(  and leaves bald patches of fur  :-X

He only sleeps there when Im in the PC room...  he moves rooms when I do.
Title: Re: New PC builds.
Post by: HPsauce on June 14, 2012, 11:50:26 PM
XP Pro to 7 is a good move.  8)
Get in before 8 comes out!  >:D
I'm continually amazed at what it copes with, they've really sorted out an awful lot of compatibility issues!  :graduate:

Though having played with W8 they've improved an awful lot "under the hood" but the UI is just plain INTOLERABLE.  >:D

I do have to admit to buying  :-[ :
1. a W7 license pre-release at a "bargain" price.
2. A W7 triple-pack, again at a ridiculously low price, 1 used, 1 "given" to a friend and 1 unused.
Title: Re: New PC builds.
Post by: burakkucat on June 15, 2012, 03:11:48 AM

You have considered, as a result of the latter, that Ziggy might decide the keyboard is definitely now the best "sleeping-spot"?  :-\

ummm  I hope not :/
mind you I probably put the network switch on top of the PC so that may attract him...  he likes sleeping on routers and switches too.

He's not the only one . . .
Title: Re: New PC builds.
Post by: guest on June 15, 2012, 07:53:32 AM

2. A W7 triple-pack, again at a ridiculously low price, 1 used, 1 "given" to a friend and 1 unused.

I have one of those - a "family pack". They're meant as an upgrade and won't activate on a clean install, so you just install it twice and it activates fine :D I think it cost about 70 but its discontinued now, at least in the UK.

I can only remember one crash in nearly 3 years, and that was to do with a botched Windows Update. It just works.

Windows 8 is going to be the end of Microsoft unless they're very fortunate. Business won't go near it and consumers will hate Metro. It will bomb so badly it'll make Vista look like a successful product.
Title: Re: New PC builds.
Post by: UncleUB on June 16, 2012, 10:31:10 AM

Haha the fun will start when I try and move everything over and get used to a new O/S. 

Ummm Windows 7 is a new OS to you? What the hell have you been using up until now?

lmao..  yeah I know...  its been a while since I got a new PC and kept adding/replacing bits to this one for the past 4 years :(

Ah Vista then :D Nobody like admitting that :P

I'm Spartacus Vista  ;D..........Had it since 2007,no problems at all. :)
Title: Re: New PC builds.
Post by: guest on June 16, 2012, 11:43:33 AM
You obviously have a lot more patience than me UncleUB :)
Title: Re: New PC builds.
Post by: asbokid on June 17, 2012, 02:27:57 AM
PS.. decided to splash out on a SSD.  Still uming over a Cosair or whether to save a tenner and go for OCZ which seems to get good reviews too.

The prices seem to have come down now and SATA ones have increased slightly due to the floods last year.   I know the storage space on them isnt as much, but since my system drive atm only uses about 45GB..  and its the storage and back up drives that use most of the space...  I thought wth and may as well go for it with a SSD system drive and a 1TB storage drive...  which can be backed up to the 1TB drive in the NAS.

Ebuyer.com currently has Crucial M4  (SATA III) 256GB SSD for 130.48 delivered (with Special Code "SSDCOMP") [1]

Today, 50p per gigabyte... Maybe 25p by Christmas?!

Quote
Technical Specifications
Form Factor: 2.5 (9.5mm)
Interface: SATA 6Gb/s (SATA 3Gb/s compatible)
Sequential Read: up to 500MB/s
Sequential Write: up to 260MB/s
4K Random Read: 45K IOPS
4K Random Write: 50K IOPS
Additional Features: ATA-8 w/TRIM, SMART Command Support, High-speed Synchronous MLC NAND
Capacity: 256GB

From Tom's Hardware [2]

(http://www5.picturepush.com/photo/a/8511968/480/Picture-Box/crucialm4-internal-front.gif) (http://picturepush.com/public/8511968)

cheers, a

[1] http://www.hotukdeals.com/deals/crucial-m4-256gb-ssd-130-48-ebuyer-com-1243802
[2] http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/ssd-recommendation-review,3194-6.html
Title: Re: New PC builds.
Post by: kitz on June 17, 2012, 12:47:58 PM
>>  256GB SSD for 130.48

Too late for me Im afraid I opted for the cheaper OCZ 120GB at 76.99,
Although looking at my build spec Im actually getting a "OCZ Vertex 4 (http://hothardware.com/Reviews/OCZ-Vertex-4-Indilinx-Everest-2Infused-SSD-Review/), which uses the new Indilix Controller with better IOPs speed.

I did try do a fair bit of resarch in to SSD drives and OCZ seemed to come out pretty well and were a bit cheaper than the corsair ones.  Thoughts are that the SSDs prices will probably stay stable for the next couple of years... but who knows. It was a balancing act of decentish spec hardware without breaking the bank.

128GB should do me.. the system drive on here (which includes my work directory) is about 50GB.  Anything else goes onto the D-Drive. Putting the system/programs/work dir on the SSD should make it pretty fast.  If prices do fall I should be easily able to slot in another one a later date.

Because of cost, I dont think Ive got the latest and greatest of anything, but its still hopefully a pretty sweet system. 
The SSD and CM Case where areas where I had some extravagance... but as it turned out with Scan doing a special bundle on the CM case and it actually turned out good.  It was Scan that changed the spec of the SSD, but I think they sometimes do that if they dont have the one you ordered in stock and give you a better one.
Title: Re: New PC builds.
Post by: asbokid on June 17, 2012, 06:31:18 PM
Sounds like you squeezed a good deal out of Scan!   More proof that the fairer sex has a dominant shopping gene  :D  It's time we had segregated shops where woman can spend all day buying the Right Things, allowing us men to buy all the Wrong Things in even less time!

In this flaky old PC, I tried a refurbished 64GB SSD drive for the operating system but the gains weren't that obvious, perhaps because of cacheing and from suspending rather than shutting down the PC.

cheers, a
Title: Re: New PC builds.
Post by: kitz on June 17, 2012, 08:04:26 PM
>> Sounds like you squeezed a good deal out of Scan! 

Not vastly so -  yes I did wrangle a 48 discount on the overall price and i'll be collecting rather than carriage (another 35 discount).. then 60 saving on build for my own o/s.
Also add in the bundle/offers from the specials page (unsure of the exact savings on those - possibly about 80?) but they are available to anyone.

However, I went over my original budget by about 60.. so Ive spent more but got much more kit for my money and feel that Ive got a decent deal for what should be a decent spec PC.

Bank of MaD seemed happy enough today when I told them cost today..  then hit me with after Ive finished, would I help dad get a new PC.
Which of course I will do because although dad isnt geeky, he likes 'gadgets' and TBH he's not good atm (radiotherapy and an impending op) so it will be something nice for him to keep him occupied (and me - read - lots.of.time.helping.dad!!) 

>> where woman can spend all day buying the Right Things

hahaha..  I think (hope) so.   
It took me so long to decide on the specs - had it all in excel and so many different builds and then doing research into say the graphics card or the SSD to make sure they were ok. 

I thought I had it all sussed then the guy suggested a newer processor which was on one of their specials, so I started tweaking figures again.  I compromised and saved by not getting a 'K' chip.. but then again since Im not an over-clocker and getting a separate graphics card, for me, this is a very good area to make savings.
Title: Re: New PC builds.
Post by: snadge on June 17, 2012, 11:47:26 PM
Hi Guys & Gals

I have my dads PC at moment as he between houses. he has a 60Gb Vertex 2 and its lightening fast (50,000 iops) , most certainly can tell the difference, infact, after a long while using it its horrible going back to computers with HDD's lol.. especially laptops

Iam having to reinstall everything right now because he installed G-DATA 2013 Anti-Virus (Trial) while he was here last night and within 20 minutes we had a BSOD... turns out that BSOD corrupted the MFT (does an SSD have one?) ..anyway the SSD was corrupted after that BSOD, tried chkdsk /f from windows 8 on the HDD but froze at 49% when checking Indexes - HD Tune done same on quick error check about 15% through...  so had to format and re-install :(

but yeah... great SSD's
Title: Re: New PC builds.
Post by: asbokid on June 18, 2012, 03:55:08 PM
Awww! Sorry to hear about your Pops. The health service is still pretty good at putting Humpty back together again.  Get some fun building a PC together  :D

cheers, a
Title: Re: New PC builds.
Post by: guest on June 20, 2012, 07:34:52 PM
I'm not a great fan of SSDs as I can't see any viable way of wiping them other than pulling the nand memory off the board and smashing it into little bits. Self-levelling algorithms mean you are unlikely to be wiping what you think you're wiping.

Obviously if you're one of these mythical people I hear tell of who don't have anything at all in your life you'd like to keep secret then its not an issue.
Title: Re: New PC builds.
Post by: sevenlayermuddle on June 21, 2012, 12:14:33 AM
I'm not a great fan of SSDs as I can't see any viable way of wiping them other than pulling the nand memory off the board and smashing it into little bits. Self-levelling algorithms mean you are unlikely to be wiping what you think you're wiping.

Obviously if you're one of these mythical people I hear tell of who don't have anything at all in your life you'd like to keep secret then its not an issue.

Interesting point  Rizla, and just when this thread was making me think in earnest about using SSDs myself  ???

But TBH, the only 'wiping' algorithm I ever trusted with magnetic HDDs is to dismantle the drive and physically trash the platters.  That was also the approach adopted by HMG  when we were working on a heavily audited secure MOD project.   One of the discs in a build system failed.  We were 'allowed' to replace it and restore from backups, but they asked to borrow the old one before we disposed of it, to make sure it was wiped to their satisfaction.  It came back to us a few weeks later, basically just a bag of bits including all the individual platters, each with its surface physically ground off.  :)
Title: Re: New PC builds.
Post by: kitz on June 21, 2012, 10:24:38 PM
PO'd. 
 
One of the vital parts (CPU) of my chosen build is out of stock and its quite a big jump in price to go up to the next one..  nor do I want to go back down now I know what I could have had.   This build may take longer than anticipated..  and in the meantime Im using the ipad more for my nettage, but obviously theres stuff on it I cant do.

I could go elsewhere but how much would that cost and would there be a similar delay because Id be starting again from scratch...  so I guess Ive just got to sit it out and wait and hope that they get the CPU I want soon.   It was damn well in stock when I ordered, but I guess cause it was a build it didnt get taken off their stock straight away..  and I guess it was popular because it was on their today only special.   

Title: Re: New PC builds.
Post by: kitz on June 21, 2012, 10:29:24 PM
>>> I'm not a great fan of SSDs

lol dont care..  Im being geeky about it... and 120,000 IOPS makes me drool  :P

Im possibly one of those that doesnt have too much to hide...  and besides theres always a hammer.
Title: Re: New PC builds.
Post by: kitz on June 22, 2012, 12:27:20 PM
Phoned up Scan to have a moan..  10 days now.. and they aint budging on the price  >:(
Title: Re: New PC builds.
Post by: guest on June 23, 2012, 05:40:31 PM
Interesting point  Rizla, and just when this thread was making me think in earnest about using SSDs myself  ???

But TBH, the only 'wiping' algorithm I ever trusted with magnetic HDDs is to dismantle the drive and physically trash the platters.  That was also the approach adopted by HMG  when we were working on a heavily audited secure MOD project.   One of the discs in a build system failed.  We were 'allowed' to replace it and restore from backups, but they asked to borrow the old one before we disposed of it, to make sure it was wiped to their satisfaction.  It came back to us a few weeks later, basically just a bag of bits including all the individual platters, each with its surface physically ground off.  :)

It depends on the disks - back in the 1980s/1990s it was quite easy to wipe disks. Gutmann's 35 pass algorithm would get it to the stage that electron microscopes couldn't pull the data back. These days its more difficult due to OS caches, drive caches, controller caches and the method used to encode the platters in the first place.

I'm rapidly coming to the conclusion that you have two options for wiping disks SECURELY :

1) Open it up and smash the platters to bits, also trash the cache chips. Not a good plan as, quite apart from the chemical issues, the platters shatter into VERY sharp pieces;

2) Use whole disk encryption, then when you're done with it use software to wipe the disk. What does remain will be encrypted and if you succeed in really wiping a few bytes then recovery will be staggeringly expensive.

Off topic really, I'm just constantly amazed at how much history there is on the average user's machine.
Title: Re: New PC builds.
Post by: kitz on July 01, 2012, 06:47:29 PM
Btw still not got new system, although I have been advised that it's in final stages of build and 24hr stress testing.  Not sure when I'll get it though as aside from tues next week I have something on every day which severely limits when I can go get it.

Still having scary times with the pc and mostly it just dies assume that's when it overheats ... Although have also breifly seen some bsods before it dies. : :(
Title: Re: New PC builds.
Post by: toulouse on July 01, 2012, 09:02:30 PM
Hiya Kitz,

So, you still haven't got your new PC, then. If you'd ordered from Novatech I could have brought it with me tomorrow.

SWMBO is gonna tough it out, so we're hoping to arrive during late afternoon. Can't wait to try out the new trams. We'll be like a couple of late 50's kids on Tuesday when we go a 'tramming.

TTFN

toulouse 
Title: Re: New PC builds.
Post by: kitz on July 01, 2012, 10:02:10 PM
I was a bit snookered toulouse.  These were my options:-

Part I wanted was out of stock... it was obviously popular because it was on their "today only special". 
Could pay extra to go up to higher spec, but already exceeded budget... and it was a big price jump to next spec.
Could downgrade, but didnt want to because Id now set my sites on that particular spec.
Could purchase part elsewhere but was more expensive and not part of the bundle price.
Could scrap the system and go start again elsewhere, but would be more expensive or get lesser spec.
If I went elsewhere I'd probably have to go through their queue system too.
Wait until part came in at Scan and let them honour the price Id ordered at.

They started the build last week, but they go through various stages.. and it takes them a min of 4 working days to do a system
ie build motherboard then put RAM on 24hr test.
build rest of system..  then do hardware test.
Put on software then leave for intensive 24hr testing.
Finish off order. I think Im on step 7 of 11

System was yesterday complete apart from the 24hr intensive testing... so depends, what they class as working day.. but I think its going to be Tues before its ready.   Hopefully I get the nod in time, because Wed Thur and Fri (poss afty) its doubtful I can get there.. No good asking them to ship either because I wouldnt be home to take delivery.   Depending on time of day..  should be able to get to scan in about 45/50 mins..  so call it round trip of 2+ hours by time loaded into my car...  which is better than waiting all day for courier.
Title: Re: New PC builds.
Post by: kitz on July 01, 2012, 10:08:04 PM
Glad SWMBO is feeling well enough to tough it out. :)
I havent been on the new trams yet... but dropped Mum and my nieces off at a stop at this end of town and my bro picked them up at the other end.  I think Mum enjoyed it, but the kids got a bit bored after a while : :(   To me they kinda look like the ones in Sheffield or Manchester which Ive been on several times so not that much fussed about rushing to try them out.

Hope you both have a wonderful time and the weather is good for you.  Not looked at the forecast, but its been ok today here..  been doing loads of washing and at least it kept dry and there was a lil bit of sun at times :)
Title: Re: New PC builds.
Post by: sevenlayermuddle on July 01, 2012, 10:16:23 PM
ie build motherboard then put RAM on 24hr test.

Glad to hear they at least test it.  When I upgraded the RAM in the MAC Mini (not user upgradeable) a few weeks ago, and contemplated getting it done the official way thru Apple's agent not only did they want to charge me circa 200, they insisted there was no need for soak testing.  "RAM is pretty reliable these days".  :D

As mentioned at the time, I opened it myself with a wallpaper scraper and installed the RAM at huge savings but... just as importantly... ran memtest for a good few hours.  Essential, IMHO.
Title: Re: New PC builds.
Post by: kitz on July 01, 2012, 11:43:12 PM
Thats one thing that irks me about apple in that you cant do simple stuff like stick in some more RAM.   Like with the ipods/ipads..  why cant you just upgrade the memory and stick in a larger card, but no youre supposed to buy a new one or pay the earth for them to upgrade. :(


This is where Im at atm

Quote
1) Authorised - that was a while ago
2) Awaiting Build - This is where it got stuck because of the parts..
3) Building: Your 3XS system is now at stage 3 out of 11, and being assembled by our professional engineers in Scan's state of the art 3XS labs.
Once your machine has finished build it will be updated with the latest motherboard BIOS and move to stage 4 "Memory Test".
4) Memory Test: Your 3XS system is now at stage 4 out of 11; our engineers have finished the assembly of your system and testing the systems memory (RAM) using industry standard software. Estimated time to despatch - 4 working days.
5) Software: Your system is now at stage 5 out of 11; our engineers are now installing the operating system selected at the time of order and updating all drivers for installed hardware. Once all software has been installed and updated your machine will run our suite of intensive tests to ensure stability.
Once your machine has passed our testing suite successfully it will move to stage 6 "24 Hour Burn In". Estimated time to despatch - 3 working days.
6) 24 hour burn In: Your system is now at stage 6 out of 11, if you have purchased an overclocked machine our engineers will now overclock and fine tune the system via the motherboards BIOS, a profile will be saved for both standard and overclocked settings.
Your 3XS system (overclocked or at standard clocks) will then be put onto an intensive 24 hour soak/burn in test, this test is designed specifically to put the machine under 100% load to ensure complete stability over a period of 24 hours.
Once your machine has passed our 24 hour burn in it will move to stage 7 "Quality Control".
Estimated time to despatch 2 working days

So the following yet to go:
7.) Quality control
8.) System Built
9.) Awaiting collection.

Touch and go whether its going to be Tues..   keeping fingers crossed.

Bit disappointed in the delay TBH...   They accepted my order and I was told about 5 working days....  and whilst I understand that the processor may have been popular because it was on their special of the day...  just because mine is a system build.. then they should have reserved the part I wanted there and then, because all parts were showing as in stock when I placed the order.  Hence me trying to get a 'goodwill gesture', but they dont seem to be having it saying that the margin is too tight on what I chose.  I believe the graphics card went out of stock at one point too, but that soon came back in stock.
As soon as someone places an order for a build then all those parts should be taken off their stock control system.
Title: Re: New PC builds.
Post by: burakkucat on July 02, 2012, 01:59:30 AM
So the following yet to go:
7.) Quality control
8.) System Built
9.) Awaiting collection.

Touch and go whether its going to be Tues..   keeping fingers crossed.

 :fingers:  And paws.

Quote
Bit disappointed in the delay TBH...   They accepted my order and I was told about 5 working days....  and whilst I understand that the processor may have been popular because it was on their special of the day...  just because mine is a system build.. then they should have reserved the part I wanted there and then, because all parts were showing as in stock when I placed the order.  Hence me trying to get a 'goodwill gesture', but they dont seem to be having it saying that the margin is too tight on what I chose.  I believe the graphics card went out of stock at one point too, but that soon came back in stock.
As soon as someone places an order for a build then all those parts should be taken off their stock control system.

If they ask (or have the means) for customers to provide feedback, your should highlight the issue stated in your last sentence.

Two questions, if I may, please. Have they already got the money from the Bank of MandD in their account? Or do they only request it once the system is ready for delivery? If it is the former, I would point out to them that they have had an interest-free loan for n-number of days!  >:(
Title: Re: New PC builds.
Post by: kitz on July 02, 2012, 09:48:49 PM
@ b*cat..  yes..  they had my money (paid by visa) nearly 3 weeks ago.

Thats exactly why I went back to them hoping to get some sort of goodwill gesture.  But they arent budging :(


Just checked my mail..  build moved on to next stage.

Quote
Your system is now at stage 7 out of 11, having successfully completed its 24 hour burn in your
system is now moving through quality control. At this stage your machine will complete an 88 point
check covering all aspects of the 3XS build process and generate a report that's provided with the
finished system.
Once your machine has passed our quality control stage it will move to stage 8 "System Built"



Title: Re: New PC builds.
Post by: burakkucat on July 02, 2012, 11:38:26 PM
Quote
Just checked my mail..  build moved on to next stage.

 :thumbs:  Keep the good news coming.  :)
Title: Re: New PC builds.
Post by: kitz on July 04, 2012, 03:25:50 AM
T'is done..  so now waiting until Ive got time to go pick it up. :)
Title: Re: New PC builds.
Post by: burakkucat on July 04, 2012, 04:33:02 AM
Once you have collected it and it has received Ziggy's seal of approval, then you can have the fun in transferring over all your data from the old system.  :dance:
Title: Re: New PC builds.
Post by: kitz on July 05, 2012, 11:51:06 PM
Evening..  Need to get this sorted URGENT.   Was hoping to be able to do a direct transfer from old pc to new..  But since old pc is now completely kuput and won't boot at all I don't think that gonna happen. Previously I could perhaps use it for half hour before it died, now nada.    :(

Typical was up to eyes in other stuff this week and not able to sort my own stuff out. Oh well if I'm quiet the next few days you know why



 

Title: Re: New PC builds.
Post by: HPsauce on July 05, 2012, 11:58:25 PM
I normally stick the old PC hard disk in the new PC as a slave/secondary.
That way you've got access to whatever you need when you need it urgently.
AND you can transfer stuff across in an organised way at your leisure.

Depends how you work and what software you use, but for me Outlook PST's take absolute priority.
Title: Re: New PC builds.
Post by: kitz on July 06, 2012, 12:11:00 AM
Thanks HP, gonna open a new thread about the above, because when I get the new PC sorted, things arent now going to go as I originally planned for data transfer.
Title: Re: New PC builds.
Post by: kitz on July 06, 2012, 12:34:41 AM
Hang on a mo...   I understand where youre coming from now. 

D'oh wasnt thinking straight as I'd gone into panic mode and first thought was my ghost backups of the old drive arent going to work on the new machine because of different OS etc.
D Drive should be straight copy of data..  and hopefully can pick up anything else on the C

Thanks.

------------

Even easier.. I think...   New build is supposed to have an x-dock  - or rather the CM case has a hot-swappable bay.  will have to see when I get it if its connected.. but could be possible to wap out the old sata drive and access via the x-dock. 

http://www.guru3d.com/article/cooler-master-silencio-550-review/6

Title: Re: New PC builds.
Post by: asbokid on July 06, 2012, 12:37:14 AM
Evening..  Need to get this sorted URGENT.   Was hoping to be able to do a direct transfer from old pc to new..  But since old pc is now completely kuput and won't boot at all I don't think that gonna happen. Previously I could perhaps use it for half hour before it died, now nada.    :(

What is wrong with the old one?  Overheating CPU or chipset or something?

cheers, a
Title: Re: New PC builds.
Post by: kitz on July 06, 2012, 01:40:00 AM
CPU I think.   For the past few years its gone through various stages of overheating.. usually in the summer.   Last summer I lost data from 2 drives in it..  One of HDDs totally burnt out.
 
Over the past few years its had additional fans,   one of those big daisy Zalman coolers  for the graphics card, and also replaced the CPU heatsink and replaced with a Zalman.  I think about the only original parts in there now is the mobo, cpu and ram.

Ive had coretemp on it, but I've never been quick enough to see the temp when it goes down. 
Years ago Im sure it used to run at about 54C,  but even when I looked last,  it seemed to run at about 66C on idle.  Its had a clean out, but I cant leave the case side off or Zigs would probably stick his nose in or something stupid.  I didnt want to push it and stress test it in case that killed it.
Title: Re: New PC builds.
Post by: asbokid on July 06, 2012, 01:54:25 AM
That's a shame.  Still, got a new one now! Good luck with the drive transfer. Hope you're not gone too long!  :)

cheers, a
Title: Re: New PC builds.
Post by: HPsauce on July 06, 2012, 08:50:32 AM
D Drive should be straight copy of data..  and hopefully can pick up anything else on the C
Ah, didn't realise you had good backups. The reference to non-booting old system made me think the old HDD was the main/only copy of important stuff (very silly presumption as you're obviously so professional in other ways  :graduate: )

I "prefer" to work directly off the old HDD IF it's in good condition, otherwise from backups (or recovered data copied to other media from a dodgy drive).
Whatever the source, assuming the new system has a larger faster disk, I bulk copy "almost everything" first to a folder on the new system then work from that.

Two main reasons for that:
1. minimise "touching" of your precious original/backup in case you need it again.
2. It's usually faster to rummage/reorganise totally on the new faster hardware.

Hope it all goes to plan.  :)
Title: Re: New PC builds.
Post by: kitz on July 06, 2012, 05:35:36 PM
Although I have backups, there was a few things I still wanted to grab from the C Drive.

Anyhows.. FINALLY  I had some time to do something for me this afternoon :)   
I now has new PC...  now to put it all together...  and start the fun stuff like transfering data...

...  and then taking about 6 weeks to install the software and configure it how I want.   :lol:

Thats my Friday night sorted :)  Assembling a PC and a glass of wine....  I lead such an exciting life. ;D
Title: Re: New PC builds.
Post by: HPsauce on July 06, 2012, 07:06:17 PM
Assembling a PC and a glass of wine....
Just don't do it the other way round......
(http://www.redferret.net/wp-content/uploads/2010/04/acryliccowboypccase_small1.jpg)
Title: Re: New PC builds.
Post by: kitz on July 07, 2012, 01:41:29 AM
Well and truly hacked off..  why is nothing simples.
PC is good and up and running..  but its very empty and bare.

For some stupid reason when I was installing the new PC and messing with the network cables, I unplugged my NAS box.   and will it power up again.. will it buggery.   I have one dead NAS.    Took the drive out to see if I could get any data from the disk and nothing is readable. 

I could cry right now..  giving up for the night :/
Title: Re: New PC builds.
Post by: asbokid on July 07, 2012, 01:49:41 AM
Oh shucks, Kitz  :(

It will be a simple problem in the morning.   Something trivial is being overlooked.   :blush:

cheers, a
Title: Re: New PC builds.
Post by: kitz on July 07, 2012, 01:59:16 AM
Put the drive back in the NAS..  and ummm.. really dont like what im hearing.. sounds like a cat going. neeeeeeeeeeeeeeowwwwwwww.
This was a new 1.5TB WD HDD I bought last year to replace the burnt out one :(   Like you say I'll try again in the morning.

Title: Re: New PC builds.
Post by: asbokid on July 07, 2012, 04:13:19 AM
Put the drive back in the NAS..  and ummm.. really dont like what im hearing.. sounds like a cat going. neeeeeeeeeeeeeeowwwwwwww.
This was a new 1.5TB WD HDD I bought last year to replace the burnt out one :(   Like you say I'll try again in the morning.

Oh heck.  If it has died, hopefully not quite 12 months old???  Maybe just the NAS controller has gone a bit skewy?

cheers, a

Title: Re: New PC builds.
Post by: HPsauce on July 07, 2012, 09:31:03 AM
Does the NAS disk actually power up without drama when out of the box?
It's probably formatted in some non-PC-standard way for whatever controls the NAS.
Hopefully it will just be a PSU problem in the NAS which "ought" to be possible to repair or bypass.
Title: Re: New PC builds.
Post by: roseway on July 07, 2012, 09:58:26 AM
The NAS will most probably be a Linux system internally, so the disk may well be formatted with a Linux filesystem such as ext3. If this is the case, retrieval of the files would be simple enough using a Linux system.
Title: Re: New PC builds.
Post by: HPsauce on July 07, 2012, 10:21:58 AM
Booting from a Linux CD would presumably be a fairly quick test of that?
Or install an EXT2/3 driver in Windows.

It may also depend how files were backed up.  :(
Drag-and-drop (or equivalent) would probably be OK but a proprietary indexed/compressed format via a backup utility might be problematic.
Title: Re: New PC builds.
Post by: roseway on July 07, 2012, 10:53:06 AM
Yes, a Linux live CD would be an easy way to access the files if the disk is formatted with a Linux filesystem.

I'd be surprised if a proprietary compression format would be used in a NAS, as there are a few widely used and well supported 'standard' formats (e.g. zip in Windows systems and tar.gz on Linux systems).
Title: Re: New PC builds.
Post by: HPsauce on July 07, 2012, 11:45:08 AM
Whatever the format you ideally want to get the files transferred somewhere more accessible first.

As I've learnt from many years of sorting out such issues for others, just carefully follow the 10 golden rules:
1. Don't panic
2. Don't panic
3...............
Title: Re: New PC builds.
Post by: kitz on July 07, 2012, 12:55:34 PM
>> 2. Don't panic

Yep I did panic.  Of course I couldnt read the disk direct because the box runs on a Linux system. :-[

I took the NAS box to pieces and reassembled all the bits (theres not much to it) and the box is now powering up without making that horrible noise.  I think it must have had a hissy because I just pulled the mains lead without doing a proper shutdown?...  either that or I did something it didnt like whilst moving everything around.  Touch wood it seems ok now.

However I couldnt find it on the network.  Ive reset the box to the default settings and run through installation with the disk which isnt picking up the box. However I can see via my router that its being allocated an IP.  Trying to access via the IP just times out.   However, this seems to be a common problem over on the forums for the DN320 for users on a win7 machine where the box wont show on the network... or shows then disappears after about 20 mins.    After numerous attempts I was able to map the drive using the IP shown in my router.  I managed to pull some stuff off and left it whilst transferring a large folder.

 Came back and its vanished...  and now I cant find it again.   This is crazy!!  Workgroup name is the same.   If and when I manage to find it again I'll try giving it a static IP (it did have -  but resetting it to default settings meant that it picked up an IP from the dynamic range).


-----
EDit

touch wood - assigning static IP to both this PC and the NAS seems to have done the trick.   :fingers:
Now to start installing some programs :)
Title: Re: New PC builds.
Post by: burakkucat on July 07, 2012, 06:52:24 PM
If you are still having problems in recovering all the data from that temperamental NAS, perhaps you could invite Asbokid for a day at the seaside?

I'm sure he would enjoy "having a fiddle" and if he brings along Mrs Asbo, Chav the dog, their Wayne, Sharon, Tracy & Spike, the afore mentioned clan members should be easily entertained on Blackpool front.  :lol:
Title: Re: New PC builds.
Post by: asbokid on July 07, 2012, 10:14:33 PM
Many thanks for the Blackpool invite, burakkucat   :) But sadly we shall have to decline your kind offer on this occasion.

Our Wayne is back on his curfew :(  Another 'misunderstanding' in Tesco  ::) freezer section again  ::)   chicken nuggets this time. :D  When will that boy grow some taste buds?  And Mrs Asbo is busy as ever with her needlework  - still on the mailbags in Holloway- parole 2020 at the earliest (but god-willing much later ;)).  As for our Shazza. She is shacked up now with Big Dave with the Transit (don't ask).  The way their van was rocking about last night, the patter of tiny feet can't be far away (Grandad again)!!  :'(

Another time for BPL maybe. Our Wayne is dead keen to show off his sharp-shooting skills and nail those seagulls harassing Kitz!  "That little runt should be in the Olympic Catapulting Team!"  Those were the exact words of our Chief Constable!! Our Wayne had just put a giant marble through the windscreen of the Force chopper!   Bullseye!   Couldn't help but feel proud of the lad!  Don't worry Kitz - As soon as his tag is off, our Wayne will be up there sorting out your flying rats!

cheers, a

EDIT:

Sounds like the NAS drive is okay?  Maybe it can temporarily hang off the SATA bus of the Shiny New PC? Mounted as a Linux volume and mirrored to some spare drive space?

Title: Re: New PC builds.
Post by: kitz on July 07, 2012, 10:54:02 PM
hahah @ you guys  :lol:

Touch wood, the NAS box is sort of behaving itself..  it must have severely disliked having the mains plug pulled.  I dunno what the screeching noise last night was, but that seems sorted after a fiddled with the insides, but I cant say what it was.

For some reason Win7, the NAS box and networking dont seem to like each other (as evidenced by the amount of issues on the dlink forums), and win7 doesnt seem to recognise it as part of the network group, but I seem to have got around this so far by giving both this PC and the NAS box a static IP then mapping the drive to the IP address.

Ive still got a loooooooooong way to go to getting everything on this PC, but Ive managed to install the big stuff/apps  and transfer all the data from the old PCs D-Drive. Still got an awful lot to do before its sorted though, will take me even longer to get things like the http/ftp server up

So far so good, its fast and reasonably quiet (hard to tell atm as the NAS box fan is whirring like mad whilst Im pulling data from it).
I know I dont have that much on the PC atm but things like DW, MS Office etc are on....  but windows bootup from cold is just 5 seconds!!!!!
Title: Re: New PC builds.
Post by: HPsauce on July 07, 2012, 11:04:25 PM
windows bootup from cold is just 5 seconds!!!!!
The SSD effect?  :graduate:
Title: Re: New PC builds.
Post by: kitz on July 07, 2012, 11:16:07 PM
yep...  got to be.

I appreciate that its still pretty bare atm, but most of the stuff that would normally slows your average PC load up like AV and M$ Office is on, as are the things like Java and all the adobe stuff that normally take ages during start up cause they check for newer versions. 

Ive not put Ghost on yet, but Im debating on that one, since my version is now very much out of date and its not the Pro edition therefore doesnt work very well with networked machines so needs a manual backup to put anything to the NAS.   Looking for a decent alternative, but havent found anything I like so far.   May end up using robocopy..  we shall see when I get that far.
Title: Re: New PC builds.
Post by: burakkucat on July 07, 2012, 11:57:19 PM
Thank you for the latest update. I'm pleased to read that the NAS is now behaving.  :-X

I think it would certainly be worth taking the time to ensure that everything is done correctly . . . after all, you have from now until the the arrival of the new kitteh to play with the 'puter.  ;D
Title: Re: New PC builds.
Post by: guest on July 12, 2012, 03:22:49 PM
There's a change with Vista (and Win7) on authentication and it may affect your NAS. Basically the NTLM auth level was raised with Vista/Win7 and you may find your NAS isn't happy about it.

You need to run regedit, find the following entry and make sure the value is as below :

[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Control\Lsa]
"LmCompatibilityLevel"=dword:00000002


I had similar problems with old NAS boxes.

Edit - or save the bold text in a .reg file and double-click the file.
Title: Re: New PC builds.
Post by: BritBrat on July 13, 2012, 06:37:12 PM

For some reason Win7, the NAS box and networking dont seem to like each other (as evidenced by the amount of issues on the dlink forums), and win7 doesnt seem to recognise it as part of the network group, but I seem to have got around this so far by giving both this PC and the NAS box a static IP then mapping the drive to the IP address.


Make sure win7 "turn on network discovery" is selected. If it turns back off some services are not running.

While doing this turn off all firewalls so as to make sure it is not that stopping the network access.
Title: Re: New PC builds.
Post by: kitz on July 23, 2012, 04:00:32 PM
Thanks for the info guys, sorry I forgot to update this, since I'd started a new thread about weird network issues (http://forum.kitz.co.uk/index.php/topic,11415.0.html) I was getting.
 
For some reason I was having all sorts of problems when using the onboard LAN, but fitting a new PCI NIC seems to have sorted it.   Not happy that the onboard lan kept doing weird things with the network and I had to shell out for a separate one, but it was a means to an end and at least it stops me tearing my hair out.
Title: Re: New PC builds.
Post by: kitz on July 23, 2012, 05:23:19 PM
Just for completeness.. this is for BlackSheep (and anyone else interested) its my new beastie showing its possible to run a nice quietish yet powerful PC., without it costing an arm and a leg :p


~ OCZ VERTEX 4 2.5" Solid State System Drive - Windows boot up time 6 secs from cold.
~ Coolermaser Silencio 550 Case (http://www.coolermaster.co.uk/product.php?category_id=3609&product_id=6722) (Near silent operation and prepared to take on powerful hardware, the Cooler Master Silencio is able to keep high-end setups running cool and quiet. Sound proofing on both side panels assist in vastly reducing noise levels.)
~ 2 x 800rpm silent fans.
~ Replaced traditional Intel CPU heatsink with an ArticCooling Freezer CPU cooler to keep it cool and quiet.

(https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-snc7/s720x720/418760_10150961643212734_448795096_n.jpg)



I think the weak link may be the graphics card which supposedly runs at 38dBA under a full load and fully stressed (http://www.guru3d.com/article/geforce-gtx-550-ti-review-msi-cyclone-ii-oc/8)..  but once its shut in the CM case i dont hear much.



The downsides,
:- I can now hear a very faint but high pitched cyclic squeal from one of my old monitors that Id never noticed before  :'(
:- When the NAS box boots up it seems awfully noisy and Im far more aware of it now than what I was when I had my old PC. :/


--------


A pic of it converted to Ziggy's cat bed will follow when the lids back on and Ive finished working with the network & cables and its pushed into place in its permanent home.  ^-^
Title: Re: New PC builds.
Post by: kitz on July 23, 2012, 06:15:02 PM
Just uploaded a quick vid to youtube.. 
Camera was right inside the box, and next to all the fans to try and pick up as much sound as possible... and yep it was turned on as can be seen by the spinning fans

Title: Re: New PC builds.
Post by: toulouse on July 23, 2012, 07:37:08 PM
Yes, that is remarkably quiet. It's so quiet in fact that the cat should be able to nap at any time. Most of them seem to be able to do so anyway.
Title: Re: New PC builds.
Post by: silversurfer44 on July 23, 2012, 08:00:03 PM
Not only cats   :sleep:
Title: Re: New PC builds.
Post by: sevenlayermuddle on July 23, 2012, 10:00:29 PM

I think the weak link may be the graphics card which supposedly runs at 38dBA under a full load and fully stressed (http://www.guru3d.com/article/geforce-gtx-550-ti-review-msi-cyclone-ii-oc/8)..  but once its shut in the CM case i dont hear much.


Main thing that springs to mind, how nice to see the 'A' quoted.  dB is merely a ratio and, as a measure of sound pressure without a reference ( the 'A'), is completeley meaningless and just slang IMHO.   Yet I seem to see it ( dB on it's own) quoted everywhere these days as a measure of sound presure.

Yes, Kitz, 7LM is envious.  Particularly, perhaps, of that SSD.  Silent, capacious and fast... what is there to dislike?    The rest of it looks great too and with fans running at 800rpm I'm sure they will be inaudible:)

Title: Re: New PC builds.
Post by: SlowConnector on August 23, 2012, 03:43:06 PM
FYI, a new cheap n' quiet cooling solution has on the market should you need to keep your NAS cool:

(http://thereifixedit.files.wordpress.com/2012/08/white-trash-repairs-new-cooling-techniques.jpg)
Title: Re: New PC builds.
Post by: kitz on August 23, 2012, 04:59:59 PM
Hahah yep that should fix it.

I wonder just how many of us in the past have had sides of cases off and the fans aimed at them..  I know I have  :blush:
Title: Re: New PC builds.
Post by: sevenlayermuddle on August 23, 2012, 08:49:19 PM
If all else fails, I wonder if that's a cup of cold coffee in the photo, intended a last resort...?  It should achieve very rapid cooling of the CPU/motherboard.
Title: Re: New PC builds.
Post by: kitz on August 24, 2012, 12:56:10 AM
terminally so   :D