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i noticed those spikes are in both graphs but the whole spectrum on sky is weakened, not just in those ranges where the RFI spikes are
I didnt think I was on Annex M, mind? I never had 3Mb upload, my stats were 1,300k up and 18,600k down with 3db SNRM (16,800k was typical sync rate for SNRM of 6.5db) -
but you're right cos on SKY i could achieve 18,013k with 7db SNRM - so i was getting more [downstream] speed than BE/o2 in that respect.
I have been on sky 6 weeks prior to this and achieved 18Mb on their MSAN , when my phone followed it across all this crap happened and i don't believe it was a coincidence, within hours of switch we had problems with noise, dropouts, phone ringing, voices on line, now this is supposedly fixed cos of a fault in cable outside my house?
there is an alarm box we have that makes a humming sound not far from router...that may be source of those 'spikes' , Tomorrow I will see if I can disable it, remove battery and turn off power to boiler, cooker and everything except ground floor sockets and then ensure nothing is plugged in but the router and laptop and re-check
but what can be causing the overall degradation of that signal over the entire spectrum? like I say i had 18Mb sync (7db NM) for 6 weeks prior and it was fine until hours after the switch, dunno if it;s related lol,,, my next door neighbour has a wireless door bell, it rings every time a car drives past his house??? lol.... just thought I would mention it haha
One thing that struck me... except for the change of service provider, are you using the same modem as you did with the o2/Be service?
Ahh. that pretty much confirms that you were on Annex M
That definitely sounded like the engineer introduced a split pair, although the performance remained surprisingly high in spite of it.
If you can get the Quiet Line Noise (QLN) data from the modem (what model is it?) that would allow a lot more detective work on the cause of the overall degradation of your signal, and the possible cause(s) of those notches.
Thanks for posting! I know it's never nice to have a fault but as perverted as it might see, some people enjoy studying others' problems! My GP is one of them. He seems delighted to discover something 'wrong'! "How fascinating! Your leukocyte count is astonishing, the highest I've ever seen! Is there a history of early death in your family?"
QuoteIf you can get the Quiet Line Noise (QLN) data from the modem (what model is it?) that would allow a lot more detective work on the cause of the overall degradation of your signal, and the possible cause(s) of those notches.
its a Netgear DG834GT (DGteam 1018) - I also have the Sagemcom 2504N (which is a better router but is locked out) and I have a Speedtouch 585v6 , this sounds promising? I never heard of QLN values in router...love it when i learn something new :) -can my GT access this value via telnet? if so how do I do that? cheers
# xdslcmd info --SNR
...
Tone number SNR
0 0.0000
1 0.0000
2 0.0000
3 0.0000
...
31 0.0000
32 0.0000
33 43.5000
34 44.7500
...
508 29.6875
509 29.5625
510 30.1875
511 29.0000
#
I look forward to posting my results tomorrow - I hope it is in my home because then I know I can rectify it...
well I disabled power to house alarm, boiler, cooker, turned on only ground floor sockets and only the router and modem plugged in, everything else around the house unplugged from wall, phone removed from filtered faceplate so its just the router
and results were identical:-
- checkout the fluctuations of upstream Line Attenuation, thats not normal is it? ive seen it between 10-16 in last 24 hours
...
I think that confirms its not REIN in my house but is external, as I had those spikes before all my troubles its safe to say that THEY are not the cause of my current speed loss either
I used DMT to send command via Telnet, I dont know the command but playing around with it I managed to find this:
adslctl info --QLT
and the returned info was:
adslctl info --QLT
adslctl: too many options
adslctl info --vendor
adslctl info --show
adslctl info --SNR
adslctl info --QLN
adslctl info --Hlog
adslctl info --Bitsas some of you know it took 4 engineer visits to locate a battery contact fault in my line.
my house has a Junction Box on it on the wall (JB1) - it has 4 pairs going along to another Junction Box on end house 6 doors down (JB2), from there the cables travel 20m to a DP in a duct (DUCT).
so route is NTE-5 -> JB1 -> JB2 -> DUCT (then onto cab then exchange)
now engineer no.2 changed me onto a clean pair in same cable at JB2 (6 doors down) but could not access the duct to hook me up in there.
engineer no.3 goes into duct and hooks that pair up from JB2.
engineer no.4 finds the fault between JB1 and JB2 - he switches me onto a spare pair in that run...
now my pairs from JB1 to JB2 to DUCT have all been changed, the engineers did not leave site once and my service was working when they connected up and tested... now does this mean from the DUCT down to exchange my pair is the same as before? - im being told that he must of changed D-side and E-side tie pairs so im now on a new line right down to the exchange (even though its in same cable) - but Iam not convinced, I think its only that short 70m run thats been changed, the engineers did not visit any cabs or the exchange, am I right in thinking this? or has my line been changed over entirely?
that 70m-90m run (1100m line length or thereabouts) shouldnt make much difference to my connection? our lass says the phone is the clearest its ever been...
Ive been told that its likely there is still a fault on the line (probably at exchange because it all happened when sky switched us over) but convincing sky to do anything about it will be impossible, my 18Mb connection is now 11Mb
anyway - am i right in saying that about only the 70-90m run has been changed?
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thanks in advance
<snip>
From your description, it sounds like the engineers have only changed the pair within the 90mtr cable runs you mention. However, if that is where the fault was found to be, they would not just continue changing the pair all the way back to the Exchange. It wouldn't be cost-effective, time-effective, or serve any purpose.
If a 'pair' is changed on the D-side network from the PCP to the DP, that is always termed a 'D-side swap/change', if it's from an underground joint to another underground joint, or from an underground joint anywhere along the D-side cable run to the DP, this is termed as 'Pair changed in length'. The former is a 81.7P clear code, the latter an 82.1P clear code. Your ISP should have a history of which code was used.
<snip>
thanks for the clarification BS :) really appreciate it
it was a user on Sky-Forums (Mr-Slant) who said he has changed the e-side & d-side pairs from my description? this guy knows a lot about it ..I learn a lot from the guy and I think Kitz speaks to him too - he said the fault initially sounded like a split pair, anyway, its pretty obvious that only that short run has been switched over, I'am 99.99% certain of it - perhaps he mis-read my posts..
anyway, i have had a few dropouts in las 24 hours and again the Line Attenuation has fluctuated between 8db and 16db - I have screenshots, it only changes between re-sync's, it doesnt change whilst connected - there has also been a 98db upstream noise margin once, needless to say the router dropped within 15 seconds or so...
ASBOKID - find the zip file attached to the post, I put your commands into DMT tool 1 by 1 and copied & paste into a text file, I put about 10 lines of space between each result
still no replies to my emails from SKY and no call back from Tier 2 as promised... Iam losing my faith in sky support again...just when I thought they got better, does CST Tier 2 not work weekends?
thanks a lot guys.. :)
the thread is here (http://helpforum.sky.com/t5/Sky-Talk-Technical/day-8-and-4-engineer-visits-line-is-still-broken), never mind!!
Forum > Page Not Found
# xdslcmd info --stats
xdslcmd: ADSL driver and PHY status
Status: Showtime
Retrain Reason: 8000
Max: Upstream rate = 1104 Kbps, Downstream rate = 17348 Kbps
Path: 0, Upstream rate = 1020 Kbps, Downstream rate = 15736 Kbps
Link Power State: L0
Mode: ADSL2+
TPS-TC: ATM Mode
Trellis: U:ON /D:ON
Line Status: No Defect
Training Status: Showtime
Down Up
SNR (dB): 8.8 12.4
Attn(dB): 19.0 9.7
Pwr(dBm): 20.8 12.0
- that speed fluctuated because them switching me over kicked over a fault at this end which wasn't previously affecting my signal..but now it did...dunno how? change in voltages or build up of resistance due to the fault at the exchange , the phone rang a few times and other people were on the line - i think there was too much voltage on the line because of this new fault and caused my degrading cable (which previously wasnt affecting my broadband) to "fall-over" and become a massive nuisance...I dunno if that's possible but thats what I think happened. this is when the phone become really bad, the next day the engineer dID something at the exchange and the phone went dead and the broadband dropped to 3Mb...like I say it stayed like that for 4 days - then these 3 engineers manage to find the bad bit in cable that was "kicked over" by the fault at the exchange...change the pair in that run which repaired that...then my broadband is back up to 12Mb (round about the same figure after the switch and before phone went dead)
taking into account all that and the fluctuating Upstream Line Attenuation; I think there is still a problem in the exchange...
what do you think?
50-50 mate ?? As with all things carrying voltage/current, test your meter against a known souce, then test the actual cable, then retest against the known source. This verifies your meter is working correctly, and the readings you are getting are true.
I'd hate for you to go hacking through some kind of electric supply cable, under the illusion its a Redifusion one. I know this is highly unlikely with your good-self, but for anybody else perusing these forums who may feel the need to go chopping cables down. :) :)
well hopefully tomoz it will get sorted :)
FINGERS CROSSED!!
Black Sheep's advice about checking your meter before checking the errant cable is spot on.
I have come across quite a few situations of voltage that shouldnt be there that lethaly is. From opening a nte only to get a blinding blue flash and the whole house electrics blow (some numpty connected an earth wire from the dowstairs wall lighting to the bell wire and plasterd over the mess) To getting a ruddy huge belt off the MDF in the exchange. I still have the scar from where I got zapped.
Or Black Sheep you'll like this one. Opened a jb23 to find a mc31. Fortunately although it was dark I still could make out electrical terminal screws before I prodded about inside (corroded as it was sopping wet inside) with 6 or 7 13 amp 240v cables inside. Some contractor had got a hold of bt plant and used it to connect the estates lighting and alarm system together.
"so, fingers crossed for Saturday... wished I had some wonga, I would backhand the lad some money if I had it in an attempt to boost his effort, as its likely to be pee'ing down I reckon he will just get sick and call it off (it is Saturday after all) ..............TEA & BISCUITS"
Try not to be too despondent Snadge. 'Tea & Biscuits' ???? ........ Nah mate, bacon & egg butty is the deal-maker. :P ;D
"so, fingers crossed for Saturday... wished I had some wonga, I would backhand the lad some money if I had it in an attempt to boost his effort, as its likely to be pee'ing down I reckon he will just get sick and call it off (it is Saturday after all) ..............TEA & BISCUITS"
Try not to be too despondent Snadge. 'Tea & Biscuits' ???? ........ Nah mate, bacon & egg butty is the deal-maker. :P ;D
Ive just got some buns in too 8)
soon as he gets here I will invite him in with offer of cuppa while I tell him what happened and tell him about the AM Noise and grounding fault and show him asbokids graphs and about the masts etc... (thanks asbokid)
BS - i dunno if you will know (coolsnakeman will) - im unsure as to what tests he performs.. but if that fault (HIGH AM NOISE ON LINE, POSSIBLE GROUNDING FAULT) comes up wouldnt it warrant an engineer visit anyway? as today Chris @ tier 2 arranged for the LL14 engineer to come out , but said he could only do so if my line tests ok - so Im assuming he run those same tests, how come he didnt get that error/fault result? I asked why it had to come back clean and he said because if its a line fault it goes to a field engineer - it must have been a line test he done but what test did this other guy do at escalations? - Iam wondering if he was just saying "yes thats passed..all ok" so that it went down on recorded conversation as tested OK...but actually he did see that fault and perhaps thought the LL14 would be able to deal with it better? so just went against protocol? hmmm dunno...
"so, fingers crossed for Saturday... wished I had some wonga, I would backhand the lad some money if I had it in an attempt to boost his effort, as its likely to be pee'ing down I reckon he will just get sick and call it off (it is Saturday after all) ..............TEA & BISCUITS"
Try not to be too despondent Snadge. 'Tea & Biscuits' ???? ........ Nah mate, bacon & egg butty is the deal-maker. :P ;D
Ive just got some buns in too 8)
soon as he gets here I will invite him in with offer of cuppa while I tell him what happened and tell him about the AM Noise and grounding fault and show him asbokids graphs and about the masts etc... (thanks asbokid)
BS - i dunno if you will know (coolsnakeman will) - im unsure as to what tests he performs.. but if that fault (HIGH AM NOISE ON LINE, POSSIBLE GROUNDING FAULT) comes up wouldnt it warrant an engineer visit anyway? as today Chris @ tier 2 arranged for the LL14 engineer to come out , but said he could only do so if my line tests ok - so Im assuming he run those same tests, how come he didnt get that error/fault result? I asked why it had to come back clean and he said because if its a line fault it goes to a field engineer - it must have been a line test he done but what test did this other guy do at escalations? - Iam wondering if he was just saying "yes thats passed..all ok" so that it went down on recorded conversation as tested OK...but actually he did see that fault and perhaps thought the LL14 would be able to deal with it better? so just went against protocol? hmmm dunno...
just too let you all know I get up this morning and line atten down is up to 31db, speed is mere 6Mb and loads of CRC errors... it would appear there is still a major fault on the line that has redeveloped... sigh!! lol....
I have told Chris at sky via email but I wonder if its best waiting for LL14 on Sat or will it have to go to field engineer (bearing in mind 5 visits to the exchange have been done and still they could not fix it)
SF = 3965390 CRC = 26319 <- this is from 5 emails and 2 webpage views
LOS = 41 LOF = 238 ES = 607
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when did I have 20db downtream LA..? do you mean 26db?
I am now in ADSL2+ mode but still same upto 256 bins.. maybe cos DMT see's theres nothing on the above bins it wont display them?
This morning the router would not get an IP until I spoofed my sagem's mac address into my Netgear GT - WIERD, because I have been using it without a spoofed mac address for weeks now.
Hi Chris,
Got a problem, we should have booked a Field engineer out for the HR Fault that returned on the line and left the broadband engineer for Saturday, because he has had to spend 4 hours replacing cable just to get the phone back on that he has not had time to pursue the broadband fault; which is noise on the line - I have DMT SNR-per-tone graphs showing it, before (fine on 18Mb)...and after when its noisy (which I showed the engineer).
The engineer said that because his boss was on his case to get too another job that he could not stay around, I asked if an engineer came the day before and done what he did (which he should have because broadband engineers are only bookable on a clean line, which mine wasn't) what would he have done? he said he would be testing it in the cabinets with his JDSU all the way down to the exchange but he has not got the time to do it.
He was convinced that SKY may be applying some ‘cap’ but I know you aren't as I am 1150k up (20Mb profile) and I showed him the DMT SNR scans of the ADSL2+ frequency (before and after) which shows noise on the line suddenly more prominent after the first fault happened after the switch over, the graphs show two lots of AM noise spikes on the line, when I was switched over the speed was ok (17.5Mb), it was the next day when engineer went out (after his work) too fix the “crossed wire” that the AM noise came on the line and speed dropped to 11Mb ... this is what I told the engineer, between all the attempted repairs by BTopenreach the speed has remained at 11Mb, this is how I know there is a secondary issue.
He said if he could be re-booked he would certainly look into it, but because there was an outstanding HR Fault (Line Issue) that the job has fallen back onto repairing that rather than fault-finding for the broadband.
The noise is still prevalent and being introduced into the line, where it wasn’t before the 1st engineers visit at the exchange/cab.
What's your take on all this Chris? I think that given the fact that a line fault occurred after the booking of the Broadband Engineer I think that a Field Engineer should have been booked to repair that HR Fault – then the broadband engineer to diagnose that (the problem engineer no.1 has caused).
Look forward to your replies.
Regards,
Paul
So snadge, when you were on SMPF, your broadband was fine, but moving to full LLU caused you these issues. Is that correct ?
Hi Chris,
Thanks for your email, as always I really appreciate your help.
Sky’s exchange status checker says my exchange is just fine? and it has been for me..no throughput issues which is typical of an over-subscribed exchange?, latency and throughput have been ok as I test them regularly at peak times.
Personally, I think over-subscribing is unlikely to be the cause of the extra noise on the line, which is the cause of my massive loss in sync-rate.
(just to add, I tested an old couples sky line in next estate last night and they had the same AM noise spikes, but, had much less ‘general’ noise on the line).
I think it best Chris if we just forget about the whole thing and accept it as it is.... but we would really appreciate it if we could be given some form of financial compensation for the loss of service and massive inconvenience it has been to us with all the problems we have had with communication with sky (before you came on board of course) , having to be in for 6 engineers to get our phone line repaired after the switch, the stress from it all which really has had an effect on me at every stage of the problem when attempts to fix the phone and/or broadband have been un-successful..and having to argue the toss with the Broadband Engineer who refused to stay and try and resolve the problem, I think you can agree when you look at our case as a whole that we have been through a lot and at the end of it we are no further forward, I mean its got so bad that now when I see sky calling I am ‘scared’ to answer the phone because I know its going to be bad news and its going to stress me out?, shouldn't have gotten like that.
I honestly don't think this upgrade will make an ounce of difference and that in 10 weeks time I am certain we will still have the same troubles (BTopenreach engineers and ISP reps on the various forums I use agree also.)
Sky promised me (when I asked to opt out of the switch to SVBN) that if my broadband speed suffered they would fix it, they have failed to do so , I just want to close the case and get on with it and forget about it, its one less stress I could do without, but I only think it would be fair to do so if we had some sort of financial compensation for our problems and everything we have been through with it.
Can this be arranged Chris?
The person who gave me your email was inconvenienced because he dis-agreed that his mother should have to pay £35 for new router, after complaining he got the router for free and Phone Line Rental at £1 month for 1 year, of course I don't want or need a new router, in fact I bought one last week just too make sure it wasn't both my sky routers I have that were the cause of the problem...and they weren't, so that's a cost I have incurred in attempt to resolve the issue, is there any offer similar to to my friends that can be offered so we can just put it too bed and forget about it?
We really appreciate everything you have done to try and help, you certainly are a credit to sky and I have said so on many occasions
Thanks Again,
What you are discussing here is nothing to do with "Tie-Pairs". They are Something Completely Different . . . (b*cat plays The Liberty Bell March (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberty_Bell_%28march%29), by J P Sousa (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Philip_Sousa), on the electronic organ. ::) )
Sousa's Invincible Eagle March is one of my favourites..
Aha! Good stuff :) To aid comparison, maybe plot using the same scale on the y-axis, or better, plot them over each other (in different colours) using the 'multiplot' command of GNUPlot :-)
cheers, a
thanks guys... I had thought about overlapping in diff colours.. I was gunna see if I could do it on Photoscape or GIMP
I will have a bash at plotting them on same scale :) that will be better than me having to draw a blue line
oh asbokid...any info on the SVBN noise on left? is that PSU..? hers is much worse than mine and I think she has internal issues adding to it
edit: how do i get it to re-graph the log then?
I thought so, but when i do that with old or new ADSLGRAPH.BAT file the cmd window just flicks up for fraction of a second
First class job, snadge!
Which is your line? Top Left?
Top Right is strange. Those two notable noise troughs centred around DMT#95 and DMT#185 are unusual.
cheers, a
Nice graphs ;D. See the reason why i had first said for you to get these results in the test socket is so sky can't give any excuses for your results. So if you go to them with those graphs and tell them each result was taking from the test socket they can't say there problem could be related to faulty equip or internal wiring etc etc.
Gary
Dear ********
Thank you for your email regarding the slow speeds, noise the line and loss of earnings caused . I’m very sorry for the poor service you’ve received and apologise for any inconvenience you’ve suffered as a result of this.
I am unable to locate your account details, from your previous email. I tried to call you today although was unable to get a response. Please can you confirm your account number and address?
I will be working with you on this case until resolved and you can contact me via responding to this email or calling 08442 *** ***.
Yours sincerely
Mo Chaba
Service Excellence Consultant
Executive Support Team
. . . into the ISAM (thats what he called it, ISAM, not MSAN?)
@ Eric - I thought that WBC was part of 21CN :)
@ Eric - I thought that WBC was part of 21CN :)
Well, as I said, I was being slightly pedantic. 21CN and ADSL2+ are not synonymous - the WBC component of 21CN enables ADSL2+ as an option, but other types of ADSL are supported too. And it isn't necessary for an exchange to be upgraded to the full 21CN to get these options - only the WBC component is needed.
(Sorry, I have a habit of doing this. I think I must have been a schoolmaster in another life. :) )
Snadge,
Perhaps you should approach him and speak to him to clear the air. At least your giving him a chance to get whatever he needs off his chest cause he may be going around telling people you have broke his service when in actual fact it was broke well and truly before you touched it lol. Your right about sky you can not get there broadband service without signing up to there line service and you can't get there line service without signing up to there tv service so you need to sign up to it all to get broadband.
Gary