Kitz Forum
Broadband Related => FTTC and FTTP Issues => Topic started by: .Griff. on April 13, 2012, 01:05:47 PM
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Can someone, probably Paul, remind me which reading refers to the level/depth of Interleaving?
# xdslcmd info --show
xdslcmd: ADSL driver and PHY status
Status: Showtime
Retrain Reason: 0
Max: Upstream rate = 31796 Kbps, Downstream rate = 94348 Kbps
Path: 0, Upstream rate = 10000 Kbps, Downstream rate = 39999 Kbps
Link Power State: L0
Mode: VDSL2 Annex B
VDSL2 Profile: Profile 17a
TPS-TC: PTM Mode
Trellis: U:ON /D:ON
Line Status: No Defect
Training Status: Showtime
Down Up
SNR (dB): 22.1 20.7
Attn(dB): 0.0 0.0
Pwr(dBm): 12.7 3.8
VDSL2 framing
Path 0
B: 240 239
M: 1 1
T: 64 35
R: 14 0
S: 0.1917 0.7622
L: 10644 2519
D: 19 1
I: 255 120
N: 255 240
I've got a feel it's "D" but I can't remember for sure.
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Hi Griff,
It is indeed "D" & I see your value is still 19 DS (LOW) & 1 US (OFF).
Combined with this, you will no doubt see non-zero values for DS INP (Impulse Noise Protection) and/or delay.
Cheers,
Paul.
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Cheers Paul. The reason I wanted to check is this - (Yesterdays TBBQM)
(https://forum.kitz.co.uk/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.thinkbroadband.com%2Fping%2Fshare-large%2F96775e22241dcd511bc6eddedbd127ab-12-04-2012.png&hash=336e552cf1c904199b1929344db3de23c47256ed) (Graph removed as the IP address it's monitoring is no longer assigned to me)
The first thing people would assume, including myself, is that's the result of the DLM increasing interleaving on my line but the modem confirms it's not changed. Perhaps it's an ongoing routing issue?!?
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Have INP and/or delay changed (increased)?
These were the values from your 4th February log:-
Path 0
INP: 0.00 0.00
delay: 1.00 0.00
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Path 0
INP: 0.00 0.00
PER: 3.06 13.33
delay: 1.00 0.00
OR: 83.48 37.18
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Path 0
INP: 0.00 0.00
PER: 3.06 13.33
delay: 1.00 0.00
OR: 83.48 37.18
All identical to 4th Feb!!
PER = Packets in ERror, but I don't know what OR: stands for. It might/might not be relevant?
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Do you therefore think that the distinct "step" increase in latency is a change in routing in that case?
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TBH Griff, I have no idea.
I do know that BT has recently been carrying out some planned Network Maintenance:-
When's this work happening?
Early tomorrow morning, 12th April.
What does it affect?
Broadband connectivity.
How long will it take?
Up to six hours.
What does the work involve?
We've received notification from our suppliers about maintenance work
that is scheduled to take place in the London Colindale region early on
Thursday morning. This may affect users nationwide.
Am I likely to notice the work?
Yes, there's a chance that you may be disconnected from the internet
for a period of time during the maintenance window.
I suppose it's possible that your PPP session was disconnected & you ended up on a different gateway (slower/more congested).
I presume your modem has remained in sync throughout.
Maybe a router disconnection/reconnection would find a quicker/less congested gateway & new IP Address?
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TBH Griff, I have no idea.
I do know that BT has recently been carrying out some planned Network Maintenance:-
When's this work happening?
Early tomorrow morning, 12th April.
What does it affect?
Broadband connectivity.
How long will it take?
Up to six hours.
What does the work involve?
We've received notification from our suppliers about maintenance work
that is scheduled to take place in the London Colindale region early on
Thursday morning. This may affect users nationwide.
Am I likely to notice the work?
Yes, there's a chance that you may be disconnected from the internet
for a period of time during the maintenance window.
I suppose it's possible that your PPP session was disconnected & you ended up on a different gateway (slower/more congested).
I presume your modem has remained in sync throughout.
Maybe a router disconnection/reconnection would find a quicker/less congested gateway & new IP Address?
Modem did indeed remain in sync throughout. I'll reset the router and create a new PPP session.
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>>> I suppose it's possible that your PPP session was disconnected & you ended up on a different gateway (slower/more congested).
Most 'normal' people wont notice something like that.. but the more astute users (and avid gamers) do.
BT's routing can sometimes be weird... there have been times in the past when I was on a BTw line I wondered if I was routed from here then back up to Glasgow ane then down to London because of jumps in latency between the RAS and destination. You used to be able to ping the RAS, but I dont think you can now.. this used to be a pretty helpful diagnostic, because it seemed to happen from my exchange a couple of times a year.
For some reason the graphs gone now.. but I did see it earlier... the latency looked pretty static and from what I can remember, not really like anything what you'd expect with congestion where it tends to spike all over the show.
If interleaving/error correction on the DLM isnt the cause, then it is possible to be a change of routing :/
If so its not always easy to pick up new routing.. you can try leaving the router off overnight, but it can sometimes be the backhaul routing between the exchange and RAS, in which case you may be stuck with it for a few days/weeks :(
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Cheers for the comments Kitz. I deleted the TBBQM as the IP address was no longer assigned to me.
As you rightly pointed out the immediate "stepped" increase in latency doesn't resemble the upward curve over a time period you'd expect to see caused by congestion so we can rule that out of the equation. Also the modem confirms that the depth of interleaving hasn't changed in months so we can also rule out the DLM making any changes in that respect.
I guess all that's left is a change in routing. I've left the router off for a couple of hours but it's made little to no difference to the latency so I'll just have to watch the new monitor over the next few days and hope it resolves itself.
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Hi all, some of you may recognise me as Croftie from TBB (using me real name here, why not).
I didn't see your BQM Griff, but I beleive I have the same problem. Within the last few days pings have doubled but the modem confirms interleaving is completely off.
Running a tracert shows the ping is normal untill hop 4 where it doubles, I beleive at that point it is still within BT's network. I have just turned the hub off for 5 mins but it's made no difference.
Does your tracert look simular to mine?
C:\Documents and Settings\Administrator>tracert bbc.co.uk
Tracing route to bbc.co.uk [212.58.241.131]
over a maximum of 30 hops:
1 <1 ms <1 ms <1 ms 192.168.1.254
2 6 ms 6 ms 6 ms 213.120.155.227
3 6 ms 6 ms 6 ms 213.120.155.142
4 13 ms 13 ms 13 ms 213.120.161.110
5 13 ms 13 ms 13 ms 217.32.26.82
6 13 ms 13 ms 13 ms 217.32.26.178
7 13 ms 13 ms 13 ms acc1-10Gige-0-5-0-4.bm.21cn-ipp.bt.net [109.159.248.96]
8 24 ms 23 ms 23 ms core1-te0-2-5-0.ealing.ukcore.bt.net [109.159.248.0]
9 23 ms 23 ms 22 ms peer2-xe2-0-0.telehouse.ukcore.bt.net [109.159.254.106]
10 23 ms 23 ms 22 ms 194.74.65.42
11 * * * Request timed out.
12 22 ms 20 ms 21 ms ae1.er01.rbsov.bbc.co.uk [132.185.254.46]
13 21 ms 20 ms 20 ms 132.185.255.134
14 23 ms 23 ms 22 ms 212.58.241.131
Trace complete.
Compared to what it was, this is a saved result from last month but it looked simular last week.
C:\Documents and Settings\Administrator>tracert bbc.co.uk
Tracing route to bbc.co.uk [212.58.241.131]
over a maximum of 30 hops:
1 <1 ms <1 ms <1 ms 192.168.1.254
2 5 ms 6 ms 6 ms 213.120.155.227
3 6 ms 6 ms 6 ms 213.120.155.158
4 7 ms 6 ms 6 ms 213.120.161.106
5 6 ms 6 ms 6 ms 217.32.26.58
6 7 ms 7 ms 6 ms 217.32.26.182
7 7 ms 6 ms 6 ms acc2-10GigE-0-0-0-4.bm.21cn-ipp.bt.net [109.159.248.194]
8 15 ms 11 ms 11 ms core2-te0-2-5-0.ealing.ukcore.bt.net [109.159.248.130]
9 11 ms 11 ms 11 ms peer2-xe10-1-0.telehouse.ukcore.bt.net [109.159.254.116]
10 11 ms 11 ms 11 ms 194.74.65.42
11 * * * Request timed out.
12 11 ms 11 ms 11 ms ae1.er01.rbsov.bbc.co.uk [132.185.254.46]
13 12 ms 12 ms 12 ms 132.185.255.134
14 11 ms 11 ms 11 ms 212.58.241.131
Trace complete.
Cheers
Darren
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My results to BBC.
C:\Users\Griff>tracert bbc.co.uk
Tracing route to bbc.co.uk [212.58.241.131]
over a maximum of 30 hops:
1 <1 ms <1 ms <1 ms 192.168.1.2
2 5 ms 6 ms 6 ms 213.120.155.227
3 6 ms 6 ms 6 ms 213.120.155.142
4 14 ms 13 ms 13 ms 213.120.161.22
5 13 ms 13 ms 13 ms 217.32.26.30
6 13 ms 13 ms 13 ms 217.32.26.178
7 13 ms 13 ms 13 ms acc1-10GigE-0-1-0-5.bm.21cn-ipp.bt.net [109.159.
248.90]
8 26 ms 23 ms 24 ms core2-te-0-15-0-7.ilford.ukcore.bt.net [109.159.
248.22]
9 19 ms 19 ms 18 ms peer2-xe0-1-0.telehouse.ukcore.bt.net [109.159.2
54.138]
10 21 ms 21 ms 60 ms 194.74.65.42
11 * * * Request timed out.
12 19 ms 70 ms 20 ms ae1.er01.rbsov.bbc.co.uk [132.185.254.46]
13 19 ms 19 ms 18 ms 132.185.255.134
14 19 ms 18 ms 18 ms 212.58.241.131
Trace complete.
I was getting 13ms pings to BBC before but I don't have a traceroute saved I can quote. Mine seems to be business as usual until it gets to ukcore.bt.net where latency doubles. I note yours does the same when it reaches ukcore.bt.net.
It's annoying as it's been 48 hours now with no sign of it resolving itself. I've restarted the router a few times to try and force it onto a different IP but the latency remains higher than usual.
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We are definatly seeing the same issue, I have reported it on the bt forum, if you could post over there that your experiencing the same it would probably help get it resolved sooner.
http://community.bt.com/t5/BT-Infinity/Latency-doubled-from-hop-4-Interleaving-is-off/td-p/473339
I agree it is annoying, I was going to order the speed upgrade this weekend but don't really want to untill this is resolved. Anyway, hopefully we can get it resolved soon.
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I would love to post on the BT forum Darren but unfortunately that forum is a complete waste of time. Even before I checked I knew that the user "Webby" would ignore any rational information you bring to the table and simply insist all is well.
For whatever reason he sees himself as self appointed expert on all matters and ardent defender of BT. Any time I've raised genuine issues on that forum he has spammed the thread arguing that BT are perfect and nobody has any genuine reason to complain.
I just find it easier and less stress to avoid that forum entirely as a result.
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@ Darren
I think its pretty obvious from your tracerts youve provided that yours is a routing problem between hop 3 and hop 4 which are both on the BT 21CN network which is causing the increased latency. :(
When it happened to me I had similar tracerts which mapped out the old and the new higher latency showing the increase time in the BTw core network.
My old (BTw based) ISP at the time did actually take it up to BTw on my behalf. iirc mine increased from 16ms to 28ms and despite a well known (now ex) CS rep taking it further up the heirarchy in BTw... he didnt get any joy as they seem to consider anything less than 30ms acceptible.
The suggestion to leave the router off really was just a vain hope.. because mine stuck for a few weeks several times and me trying a d/c didnt work. It would always occur after some planned works... and it would go back again after yet another PEW. Because its on the backhaul then its probably going to need a d/c from between the exchange MSAN and the RAS before it picks up any new routing.
I know once it went 'back to normal' after a planned lift and shift for some other unrelated issue. Off the top of my head I probably saw about 5 or 6 of these incidents during a 3 year period. I would get stuck with the longer routing anything from about a week to about 8 weeks.
Sorry I cant recall exact details because its quite a while ago and Im now LLU. But I can fully sympathise with you because Ive "been there" several times and its so annoying that you know full well its routing between the exchange and the RAS... you have the proof.. yet BTw still consider it acceptible.
I hate to say this, but I think you may just have to sit tight for a few weeks and hope that a PEW comes up soon.
(Sorry for the bad pun). :-[
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Still no joy..
C:\Users\Griff>tracert bbc.co.uk
Tracing route to bbc.co.uk [212.58.241.131]
over a maximum of 30 hops:
1 <1 ms <1 ms <1 ms 192.168.1.2
2 6 ms 6 ms 6 ms 213.120.155.227
3 8 ms 6 ms 7 ms 213.120.155.158
4 14 ms 13 ms 13 ms 213.120.161.110
5 13 ms 13 ms 13 ms 217.32.26.82
6 14 ms 13 ms 15 ms 217.32.26.178
7 14 ms 13 ms 13 ms acc1-10GigE-0-0-0-4.bm.21cn-ipp.bt.net [109.159.
248.66]
8 32 ms 24 ms 23 ms core1-te0-4-0-4.ealing.ukcore.bt.net [109.159.24
8.4]
9 20 ms 20 ms 20 ms peer2-xe0-0-0.telehouse.ukcore.bt.net [109.159.2
54.102]
10 23 ms 23 ms 22 ms 194.74.65.42
11 * * * Request timed out.
12 23 ms 22 ms 21 ms ae1.er01.rbsov.bbc.co.uk [132.185.254.46]
13 21 ms 21 ms 21 ms 132.185.255.134
14 23 ms 22 ms 22 ms 212.58.241.131
Trace complete.
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Griff, I know what you mean, I'm very suspicious of that person.
kitz, That's very helpfull thank you, fingers crossed for some PEW. I sent a ticket to the mods yesterday but have not heard anything back yet, will be interesting to see what they say. I can live with a waiting game now I know what's going on, still a bit annoying though as you say.
The wolverhampton exchange joined the fttc rollout plans in the last batch so maybe that has something to do with it aswell. I'm on the tetenhall exchange which is just on the outskirts of wolverhampton.
Funny how the 80/20 trial ends and the routing goes tits up for a lot of people. There are more and more tracerts being posted showing the same pattern. Hopefully it will iron out sooner rather than later.
I seem to be haveing a dense moment because i didn't notice a pun, sorry. :-[
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He's certainly an oddball and in my experience at least the mods on there are equally unhelpful.
I recently had an issue where a lot of the information concerning my account was missing from the "My BT" section of the website. The mods insisted I hand over my username and password so they could "investigate". Naturally I refused to divulge my account password and the issue was resolved without it yet to this day I still get updates from the mods telling me the problem is still being investigated?!?
Back on subject; I notice you don't live a million miles from me in Walsall so I wonder if the issue we're both experiencing has some geographical aspect to it?
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Walsall ay, small world :)
Check yours now Griff.. it's gone back to normal here over night.
C:\Documents and Settings\Administrator>tracert bbc.co.uk
Tracing route to bbc.co.uk [212.58.241.131]
over a maximum of 30 hops:
1 <1 ms <1 ms <1 ms 192.168.1.254
2 6 ms 6 ms 6 ms 213.120.155.227
3 6 ms 6 ms 6 ms 213.120.155.142
4 7 ms 6 ms 6 ms 213.120.161.106
5 7 ms 6 ms 6 ms 217.32.26.74
6 6 ms 6 ms 6 ms 217.32.26.182
7 6 ms 6 ms 6 ms acc2-10GigE-0-0-0-4.bm.21cn-ipp.bt.net [109.159.248.194]
8 13 ms 11 ms 11 ms core2-te0-2-5-0.ealing.ukcore.bt.net [109.159.248.130]
9 11 ms 11 ms 11 ms peer2-xe10-1-0.telehouse.ukcore.bt.net [109.159.254.116]
10 11 ms 11 ms 11 ms 194.74.65.42
11 * * * Request timed out.
12 11 ms 12 ms 11 ms ae1.er01.rbsov.bbc.co.uk [132.185.254.46]
13 11 ms 11 ms 11 ms 132.185.255.134
14 12 ms 12 ms 12 ms 212.58.241.131
Trace complete.
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Looks like the routing changed at 6am -
(https://forum.kitz.co.uk/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.thinkbroadband.com%2Fping%2Fshare-large%2F5aab36fdab59920367ffe34c44e2dea7-18-04-2012.png&hash=7f7725195d0e36bfe26ee62922b894ad3d590c97)
C:\Users\Griff>tracert bbc.co.uk
Tracing route to bbc.co.uk [212.58.241.131]
over a maximum of 30 hops:
1 <1 ms <1 ms <1 ms 192.168.1.2
2 6 ms 5 ms 5 ms 213.120.155.227
3 7 ms 6 ms 6 ms 213.120.155.158
4 7 ms 6 ms 6 ms 213.120.161.106
5 7 ms 6 ms 7 ms 217.32.26.74
6 7 ms 7 ms 6 ms 217.32.26.182
7 7 ms 7 ms 7 ms acc2-10GigE-0-3-0-1.bm.21cn-ipp.bt.net [109.159
248.240]
8 14 ms 11 ms 11 ms core2-te0-3-0-3.ealing.ukcore.bt.net [109.159.2
8.150]
9 11 ms 11 ms 11 ms peer2-xe11-1-0.telehouse.ukcore.bt.net [109.159
254.118]
10 10 ms 11 ms 11 ms 194.74.65.42
11 * * * Request timed out.
12 11 ms 12 ms 11 ms ae1.er01.rbsov.bbc.co.uk [132.185.254.46]
13 12 ms 12 ms 11 ms 132.185.255.134
14 12 ms 12 ms 11 ms 212.58.241.131
Trace complete.
All back to normal.
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:dance:
:fingers: it stays that way.
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Same issue has returned this afternoon.
Darren are you experiencing it again by any chance?